Stupid Tank Designs in Mecha Anime

>>14713802
Because it looks cool.

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>>14713802

Multiple guns let you fire multiple rounds to guarantee a kill. It's one more shot you get before having to reload.

>Goes after it for having multiple guns.
>Not for its sheer retarded size.

Thought I was in a snapshit thread for a minute.

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>>14713802
The Type-61 has two 155mm cannons. The modern day MBT typically tots around with a 125mm canon.

You know what they say.

There's no kill like overkill.

>>14713802
If this was a world where people understood how to make practical armor and aircraft designs, mobile suits wouldn't exist.

>>14713825
/thread

>>14713845
The weight to gun ratio is off when it comes to MBTs though. And the Type 61 has 2 150mm cannons, which is like a battleship's secondary armament. That's a massive amount of firepower, but having two guns is meant to compensate it for being less accurate at sea and to increase the rate of fire so that it can hit planes or do more damage to a ship's superstructure.

>>14714074
>>14713845
so this is a tank made for the minovsky age then? make up for inaccuracy with autoloaders and higher rate of fire?

>>14713896
I dunno, I think that if metallurgy and materials science advances to the point that MS could be built, they'd stop building huge tanks because the tank is slow and resource-intensive.

>>14714108
What makes you think an MS would be cheaper or any less resource intensive than a normal tank?
>tanks are slow
Shut up retard.

>>14714095
No, it was made for the pre-Minovsky age. Supposedly the Type-61's main advantages are
>Synchronous communications between all squadron tanks, allowing for squadron to fire as one unit against the same target
>Precise GPS uplink/downlink to all squadron tanks, allowing for accurate mapping of locations, firing ranges, and sensor data
>Two guns that can switch between direct-fire and indirect fire modes
>Small crew, meaning fewer drains on a shrinking military force pre-OYW

>>14713850

Well I mean, it's not like it couldnt be done I guess. But it would be way too heavy.

>>14714074
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_cm_TbtsK_C/36_naval_gun

This is what a Type-61 tank turret is like.

>>14714115
Normal tanks aren't big enough to mount a Minovsky generator, which means they'd run on conventional fuels or batteries, which would be way more resource-intensive.

And tanks are slow, relatively. Compared to a mobile suit with hover engines like the DOM?

>>14714143
Loto and Ball mount super compact reactors.

>>14714171
Loto is still a big-ass MS, Ball doesn't mount a reactor.

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>>14714177

Any advances in material sciences that could make Mobile Suits feasible would also apply to conventional AFVs. I'd imagine an Ultracompact providing up to tens of thousand of horsepower - UC MBTs ought to be real speed demons. There also isn't really anything preventing a beam cannon from being used as a Minovsky-powered tank's primary armament, making then potent mobile suit killers.

>>14714206
>400 kw
That's one-third the horsepower of an M1 Abrams.

That's how much it costs to power a water heater for 1 month for a 4-person family.

The UCFR is not very powerful, certainly not enough to power beam weapons in a tank unless that Tank was the size of a bolo.

>>14714206
the only thing the ball has going for it is AMBAC

to be completely honest we probably have the technology to make is except its completely pointless

>>14713825

>>14714210
>That's how much it costs to power a water heater for 1 month for a 4-person family.
That's kilowatt-hours, a measure of energy not power.

Also space balls and gendumbs would rely on thermal radiators alone instead of air/water cooling which would limit usable power output compared to land and sea based units.

Not that Gundam exactly bothers going full "MUH ATOMIC ROCKETS REALISM MOTHERFUCKA" and makes 90% of spacecraft surface area radiators

>>14714785
Hm. I wonder if they don't have some methods of recycling thermal energy to eliminate the need for radiator fins. Maybe it's stored chemically via an endothermic process, and the synthesized chemicals could latter be decayed as fuel in an exothermic process

Or perhaps (and more likely in my opinion) is that excess heat is converted to electrical energy by either a thermal>kinetic>electric or directly thermal>electric

>>14714785
>That's kilowatt-hours, a measure of energy not power.

Sorry to doublepost, but 400kW=536.4hp. An Abrams M1 has 1500hp, so a ball literally is a third the power.

Anyhow, here's the balls specs
Max Weight
25.0 metric tons
Standard Weight
17.2 metric tons
Power Output
400 kW
Max Acceleration
0.96 G
180° Turning Time
2.2 s
Rocket Thrusters
24000 kg

Any physicsfags ITT wanna tell me how realistic this is?

>>14715999
Not a physicsfag but everybody knows gundam stats don't make sense.

>>14716109
Yeah, I've heard they've dun Gouf'd on some designs and actually made suits that are lighter than air

>>14713825
you do notice that this is the idea behind mechas, right?

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>>14716229
>>14713825
It looks dumb as shit though.

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>>14716875

I crack up when people boast about 40k imperium shit - what a stupid universe with stupid designs.

>>14716875
Anyone have that post of the armor? The one that makes it less armored then the M1 Abrams.

>>14716875
Of course W40K shit looks retarded, its made by literal manchildren who think "spikes=cool"

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>>14718212
>literal manchildren who think "spikes=cool"
>no spikes anywhere
At least say that on an image of Heretic garbage, Imperium tech is fine for the most part.

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>>14718225
Because at least the tanks they just tried to make alterations to things that already existed, pic related makes the retarded waist bullshit the IBO mobile suits have seem sane, fucking thing shouldn't be able to move its fucking legs.

But yeah you are partly right, the Imperium is mostly being overdesigned to the point that each character tries to have to more bullshit on it than the whole of the vantican, everyone else though? spikes=cool

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>implying multi-gun turrets aren't the coolest fucking thing ever

>>14718034
>>14718212
40k was designed by Brits to be satire of dark and edgy military scifi.

Unfortunately Americans now take it seriously.

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QUAD TURRETS MOTHERFUCKER

>>14714210
Keep in mind that anime in general doesn't understand proper power usage.

Or height/weight ratio.

Or metallurgy.

>>14715999
If we knew the amount of mass it shat out the ass to get that acceleration we could calculate how much kinetic energy that had, which is the absolute theoretical minimum amount of power the reactor needs to put out if we have a made by god 100% efficient engine.

But we don't.

500bhp, 17 metric tons, 0-100km/h in about three seconds.

So we stuff the engine form a decent sports car into a 17 ton truck, and expect it to still provide high end sports car acceleration? Even with most of the friction tossed out that's a pretty fucking tall order.

And those rocket thrusters, that's the thrust? Should've used a unit of force for that, not mass, especially since we're in zero-G here where the connection between weight and mass we're used to have ceased to apply. Anyway, if they meant weight of that mass at 1G then at full tilt and 17.5 tons we get an acceleration slightly above 1G, so with some losses for not perfect efficiency that bit works.

And just for the hell of it. Assume 1kg/s of reaction mass then it needs to shoot out the arse at 175km/s to push 17.5 tons at about 1G. That would eat up a bit over 15GW just for the kinetic energy. Add a zero to the reaction mass to drop two from the energy, so I guess we're looking at something like at least 10kg/s for full acceleration here, probably far more as we're also heating the reaction mass significantly to get it going, and the heat->movement conversion is never an efficient one.

2 words: Panzer Train

>>14713802
>Are tanks like the Type-61, the Magella Attack, and the Spartas just present in mecha because they're meant to look like weak-ass trash against mecha?
The show is called Mobile Suit Gundam not Mobile Tank Type 61, so yes they exist to job

>>14718253
You mean welded twins. Lol.

>>14718234
Don't forget the 40K needs more skulls = cool design.

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>>14718561
Warhammer 40k runs on European heavy metal aesthetics. Hence all the "Gothic" imagery, skulls, dark shades,...

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Make way for what is literally the best real and/or fictional tank ever devised. It's so cool you should let it fuck your girl.

Commander double as gunner is stupid. You can't have situational awareness when you're aiming at enemy. Tank should have at least 3 crews.

>>14718685
>Commander double as gunner is stupid.

Not really, if we're taking into account that HK programs will be much more advance by the time the Type 61 rolls around.

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Time to post this bad boy again

>>14718697
>Not really

But it is. it's not a matter of technology.

>>14718823

Have you read any of Ogorkiewicz's books?

It is a matter of technology when we're fast approaching the day when HK programs can easily replace the gunner. We're going to hit a point where human gunners are unnecessary as human loaders. Two man crews will become the norm in the West.

>>14718252
That's pretty much how Americans treat satire really. See: One Punch Man.

That being said, considering these days lots of what could have been considered satire is coming true, I don't blame em.

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>>14718613
I don't think the word "ultimate" means quite what you think it does. Becuase it means HILDOLFR!

>>14718840
We'll see

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>>14718860
Reactive armor is soooo '55. Why bother when you can have TWO. FUCKING. SHIELDS.
Awesome!

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>>14718872
Plz buy the Hildolfr guyse? We tots fixed those little shell swerving issues in the latest version.

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>>14718890
Guyse?

>>14718840
Nothing beat having a dedicate commander.

Even autoloader isn't 100% better than human loader.

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>>14718910

>laughingT14.webm

>>14718898
That's the one where someone tried to make it fully transform, correct?

If I recall correctly, it was a good attempt, but the MS mode didn't really come out right.

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>>14718034
40k designs are insane cargo cults stapling anything that looks dangerous to a variety of tractor or earthmover chassis and then calling doing anything else heresy

i think that the only "real" tank designs are the leman russ (which i think was still designed on a tractor chassis) and land raider (which is actually a superheavy hostile enviroments apc that they bolted even more shit onto)

>>14718971
in cannon i mean

they at least recognised imperial human stuff looked stupid as well as cool and built in a reason it looks that way

>>14714210
how would mobile suits fare against bolos?

>>14718971
>Baneblade isn't a real tank design

>>14718943
Yeah, it's fun to see, but even for a fictional mecha that custom mod was too silly. Not only it was clunky and ugly, it was also stupid. The whole point of the hildolfr is to have the extreme stability needed to handle that giant 155mm smoothbore cannon. If it walked, not only it would be pointlessly weighted, but each shot of the cannon would topple it over

>>14718872
Man, that one reminds me too much of my usual tank ACs

>>14714143
>And tanks are slow, relatively. Compared to a mobile suit with hover engines like the DOM?
If they can make MS with hover engines, they can make tanks with hover engines.

Hover engines are still pretty shitty.

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>>14713802
While the duel barrels of the Type-61 are a BIT silly, you have to admit it looks way more realistic than the '50s Sci-fi clusterfuck that is the Magella Attack Tank.
Seriously, was were the Zeeks thinking?

>>14718234
>Posting Imperator
>Not Superior Lucius Pattern Warlord

>>14718613
Muh Hildolfr!
The only thing that make you cooler is if you had a waist swivel like the mass production/Origin Guntanks.

>>14719349
No, it's asking what the fuck was Tomino thinking.

Tomino didn't think straight when he made the zeeks, he just made them stereotypical evil empire using nazi aesthetics.

Most of the good Zeon shit are based on their humanoid shapes or even stolen straight from the nazis, such as their assault rifles.

>>14719357
>No, it's asking what the fuck was Tomino thinking.
>Most of the good Zeon shit are based on their humanoid shapes or even stolen straight from the nazis, such as their assault rifles.
Well then yeah, Tomino took the Sci-fi of his youth and gave it to the Space Nazis to make them look "More advanced."
Feddies then got more contemporaneity stuff, like fairly functional armored Space Pods, to make them look more grounded and conservative.

>>14719412
Tomino was taking Zeonic tank designs and airplanes not from 50s sci-fi, but contemporary 70s show with evil space empire.

He didn't think very hard about it.

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>>14718860
>that high center of gravity

Who designed this?

>>14719457
Okawara.

Okawara himself doesn't know shit about military designs, so pestering him about that is pointless.

>>14718988
MS's would get BTFO by BOLO's, unless it was a first gen BOLO.

>>14720563
>unless it was a first gen BOLO

>survives being covered in lava; completes mission objective
>survives crew death; completes mission objective
>gets tracked; completes mission objective
>loses main gun; completes mission objective
>survives near-miss nuke strike; completes mission objective

You might need to brush up on your knowledge of BOLO lore, broham.

>>14720635

....unless you mean a first gen BOLO would actually be a "fair" fight for a mobile suit - because then I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

>>14713802
The OZ/UESA MBTs in wing have a coaxial 20mm Vulcan gun, not sure if that's stupid or simply genius

>>14719104
Anon, the hildolfr has a fucking 16in (400mm) battleship size cannon, not one of those cruiser grade peashooters.

>>14714122
>all that datalink goodness
fuck you minovsky

>>14715999
>max acceleration appears to be thrust/max weight instead of thrust/min weight
That's a problem

>>14720635
Early-gen BOLOs were human-crewed. No AIs here.

Late-gen are the fucking ridiculous "Main gun firepower measured in megatons/sec and it can fucking fly fuck you I'm a tank"

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>>14718613
>literally the best
>no MRLS
>no mines
>no rocket pod
>no flamethrower
>no gun-arms
hands are pointless when you have hardpoints

posting superior feddie technology

zeekshit doesn't even have an angry best girl driving it

>>14714095
They're meant to skirmish land battleships like the big tray

>>14715967
There's always going to be loss heat; they probably run in low power mode with radiators out and dump into massive heat sink facilities during combat.

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What I want to know is why the Type 61's two 155mm guns don't do shit to zakus, who have one 90mm gun of almost certainly lower velocity. Factoring in nothing but sheer size alone, a 155mm gun should be a bit more than 5 times as powerful as a 90mm gun (directly scaled up, it's about 1.7x as long, with 3x the cross sectional area)

It ought to fucking core them.

Also why, if 90mm machine guns are so effective, didn't they just give their tank one of those?

Also: how do I get the model in OP? The type 61 looks fucking sweet.

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>>14721089
Assault Guntank, you can't even decide if your a Tank or an MS...
...And a D50C Loto is a better Transformer and IFV!

>>14721201

MS Igloo 2 shows Type 61s demolishing Zakus when their shots connect. The problem is actually hitting the running, dodging, jet-jumping Zaku in the first place, especially when said Zaku is spraying their position with 120mm shells.

>>14721201
>Also: how do I get the model in OP? The type 61 looks fucking sweet.
I think it might be the 1/144 one from the MS-06 Zaku The Ground War Set 1/144 - UC Hard Graph set.
Mindful, it comes as solid grey plastic, and is the size of a Matchbox car.
https://kaishangar.wordpress.com/2014/04/25/hg-u-c-hardgraph-zaku-the-ground-war-set/

It also comes with the OLD Zaku II HG kit, but I personally think it comes with a better accessory loadout than the current F2 version.

>>14721225
>MS Igloo 2 shows Type 61s demolishing Zakus when their shots connect. The problem is actually hitting the running, dodging, jet-jumping Zaku in the first place, especially when said Zaku is spraying their position with 120mm shells.
Yeah, you've got to remember what makes the mobile suit so terrifying in the first place is it's AGILITY.

>>14721247
>what makes the mobile suit so terrifying in the first place is it's AGILITY.

they're big and heavy, how can they have agility?

>>14721291
>they're big and heavy, how can they have agility?
Remember they don't just plod around like a Megadeus Anon, Mobile Suits in general move with the fluidity of human body, just greatly scaled up.
While this laughs in the face of current mechanical physics, this does make them STUPIDLY fast.

>>14721291

I dunno, maybe AMBAC and the massive engines mounted on their backs and feet have something to do with it.

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>>14714095
You don't get a higher rate of fire just by adding another gun. In fact if you're using a human loader you double the time it takes to reload. If you add crew accommodation for an additional loader, or use auto-loaders you massively increase the size of the turret (which is already enlarged by the need to accommodate two guns) and drastically increase the overall weight of the tank.

Assuming you do that the result isn't an increased rate of fire, the time between volleys is at best the same as using a single gun. The advantage you gain is an increased hit probability per salvo.

When experiments were done during the cold war with tanks mounting multiple large caliber guns the conclusion was just that the increased hit probability isn't even close to worth the disadvantages of carrying around all the extra weight.

There's plenty of weapons you might reasonably want to have more than one of on a vehicle, but a tank gun isn't one of them.

>>14721300
Don't most mobile weapons ride on magnetic joints? With their reactor bleeding output I could see the internal frame taking as much stress as most of their combat maneuver should deliver and just stunting power to the joints under the most strain actively.

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>>14718971
The Baneblade is a "light reconnaissance vehicle" from before the Dark Age of Tech

Golden Age Mankind was on another level.

>>14715999
He was talking about the heater you daft cunt.

>>14721353
>There's plenty of weapons you might reasonably want to have more than one of on a vehicle, but a tank gun isn't one of them.
Yeah, but people seem to think "two cannons" are still something a future tank should have for some reason...
I mean, Planetside had the Prowler, and Planetside 2 went the extra mile in stupidity and mounted BOTH GUNS ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE TURRET!

>>14721365
>Don't most mobile weapons ride on magnetic joints? With their reactor bleeding output I could see the internal frame taking as much stress as most of their combat maneuver should deliver and just stunting power to the joints under the most strain actively.
That's assuming the internal frame, magnetic joints, and hell, most of the load baring components won't just MELT under that kind of stress...

In my own idea for a Gundam Setting, the use of macro-material engineering makes the power armor sized up into weapons of intimidation (AKA, Mobile Suits) are mostly made out of die-cast, hollow armor shells held together and moved by insane-grade servo-motors.

In essence, they are mostly empty exo-skeletons made big and reasonably tough enough to kick over a Space Colonist house, and the only reason they don't just shoot the damn things is the standing ban on the use of projectile weaponry or explosives in or at said Space Colonies, which are made with the SAME macro-material engineering (thus of similar durability to said power armor) and accidentally putting a hole in a hundred trillion dollar piece of space real-estate is A TERRIBLE IDEA!

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>>14718225
>Lascannon Chimera turret and plasma sponsons on a Destroyer
TECH-HERESY

>>14718243
Funny thing: The Yamato's cannons are the caliber of a Baneblade's main cannon.

>>14721225
>>14721247

MS Igloo 2 also shows shots bouncing right off Zaku shoulder shields.

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>>14721247
>>14721225

>>14721593
>bouncing

Ricochet, Which is not how APFSDS rounds .work

>>14718395
Kilograms force was used as the measure for rocket thrust in Germany and the soviet union. I think it's still used in Europe today.

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I wonder why nobody posted this baby yet.

>>14718872
>סער
That's neat

>>14721823
I am BIG.

>>14714206
>There also isn't really anything preventing a beam cannon from being used as a Minovsky-powered tank's primary armament, making then potent mobile suit killers.
The tank would need to be even larger than the already fairly huge Magella Attack Tank, at least on par with the Zaku Tank AND needing post-OYW technology to make it work.

Up until the final days of the OYW, ALL mobile suits were limited by how many Minovsky particles they could generate to use for beam weapons. Federation beam weapons needed to be pre-loaded at bases from purpose-built Minovsky generators, and not natively made by the MS's generators. Zeon experimented with huge beam bazookas that needed time in between shots on the matter of ten or so minutes to actually make enough Minovsky particles for more than one fully-charged shot. You needed a huge generator to make enough Minovsky particles to make a mega-particle beam shot.

It was only when Zeon figured out how to make tiny enough generators to still be battlefield practical AND generate enough M-particles so that an MS could use it for weaponry without waiting (like Char's gelgoog and his ridiculous beamspam for an OYW MS at Amuro during the M'Quve fight).

You also have to remember that in-setting, tanks are trash units meant to keep local peace. If you want to kill an MS, you need another MS or a trap. On that note, most importantly, beam weapons are too "expensive" to be put on something that isn't as agile as a mobile suit (high investment, low survivability). They're meant to be scouts and spam units (somewhat replacing infantry as the smallest unit to hold ground in a setting with giant robots).

Tanks are reasonably good at anti-MS combat anyways if you play the games. A Type 61 can one-shot a Zaku in the right place, so their firepower wasn't really an issue. It's that they can't jump and can't be generally as agile as a mobile suit.

>>14721995
>giant robots are agile
>tanks are sluggish

I hate this trend.

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>>14721823
Because regular Mammoth is cooler

>>14722050
Somebody never actually saw the Hildolfr

>>14721995
>Up until the final days of the OYW, ALL mobile suits were limited by how many Minovsky particles they could generate to use for beam weapons.

No, they were limited by how much electricity their reactors could produce (And spare towards powering a weapon). The minovsky particles that are converted into megaparticles are already in the ecap inside the gun. The MS provides the electricity that powers the reaction that transforms the minovsky particles into volatile and super heated mega particles and fires them.

It's megapartilce cannons that are directly fed particles from the reactor and only later in late UC that MS could directly provide the particles for the weapons, and even then it was through recharging the ecap and not a direct output.

>>14722050
>I hate this trend.
Why the hell are you on /m/ then? The giant robots are agile because they have legs and jetpacks and can moderately fly (truly fly later in setting).
Get over to /k/ or /tg/ and masturbate over Bolos.

One of the only reasons to ever justify a mecha in a series setting is because they're really fast and/or agile/maneuverable compared to conventional mechanized units.

We all KNOW a giant robot is retarded, so they have to either make conventional weapons stupid OR make the giant robot super-powered to make them work in a "real robot" setting.

>>14721995
>>14722084

Also

>It was only when Zeon figured out how to make tiny enough generators to still be battlefield practical AND generate enough M-particles so that an MS could use it for weaponry without waiting (like Char's gelgoog and his ridiculous beamspam for an OYW MS at Amuro during the M'Quve fight).

The Gelgoog rifle has an ecap as well. And the reason the beam bazooka has an internal generator is that the Rick Dom cannot provide enough electricity to power a beam weapon on its own. The beam bazooka does provide its own particles generated by the generator, but electricity is provided by the Rick Dom reactor and the generator together, and the Rick Dom actually needs to have some of its internals modified to be able to equip a beam bazooka to adequately provide its half of the power.

>>14721383
I wouldn't be surprised if GAoT mankind could've actually shot stars at people. They weren't quite Lensman-grade, but if things hadn't gone to shit they may well have gotten there.

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>>14721247

>I think it might be the 1/144 one from the MS-06 Zaku The Ground War Set 1/144 - UC Hard Graph set.
Mindful, it comes as solid grey plastic, and is the size of a Matchbox car.

Das perfect tho.

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>>14722069
but that's not the Mk. III

>>14713802

It must suck to be tank crew in an age where people have giant robots with beam weaponry and thrusters.

>>14714206
>There also isn't really anything preventing a beam cannon from being used as a Minovsky-powered tank's primary armament,
besides the size and having to carry an E-cap the size of a tank

>>14722888
And enough power to fuse the particles, which necessitates a nuclear reactor no one would be comfortable sharing a tank's chassis with.

First rule of radioactive power sources, stay the fuck away from the radioactive power source at all times.

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If anything, most non-mobile suit UC mecha are terribly designed, especially when it comes to the stuff from the 1979 series and even into Zeta, since they were "futuristic looking" back in that time. If anything most of the recent AU Gundam's have some better non-MS mechanics.

>>14722888
>>14722897
core boosters have beam guns

minovsky reactors don't produce radiation unless they blow up, and even then not always

>>14722897

I can't imagine it's all that far from the pilot in a Mobile suit. They sit right in the middle of the torso.

>>14722937
>core boosters have beam guns
That has always been sorta a questionable thing, and even then they're low output. Not to mention Core Anythings are just as stupid as the Type 61 this thread was started about.

>>14722888
What wrong with a giant tank?

>>14723011
You'd need an equally giant I-field to protect it
Big Zam Tank when

>>14722937
Have you actually seen how big coreboosters are? It's a big and bulky block practically the size of an MS and definitely bigger than an MS's torso with a little corefighter strapped to the front to act as a cockpit.

>>14722069
>>14721823
The Mammoth from C&C 4 was the best Mammoth.

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>>14723011
Giant tanks are giant targets. And also there are other problems with huge and heavy tanks.

The Germans didn't produce the Maus for a reason and the even bigger Ratte was scrapped during conceptualization because they ran the math and learned that it would destroy any road and drove on, couldn't be transported by train or plane, and couldn't cross bridges.

>>14723036
It's not real. It's a cartoon giant tank, it's cool.

>>14722912
Is this a tank from Gundam Seed or something?

>>14723045
I never said it was real. Anon just asked what was wrong with a tank being big and history provides the answer.

>>14723056
Yeah it says that right in the image. It's the Alliance's "linear tank" so it uses an EM propelled gun and is probably powered by one of the crazy magic energy capacitor systems they came up with in CE.

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>>14723034
This was the worst fucking game I've ever played. You couldn't even play with the Mammoth until you'd reached like level 15 in the online server. You literally had to grind through more than three dozen games to gain access to a second-tier heavy ground unit, and only if you refused to play infantry or aerial forces because you'd only gain player XP for the force you played.

It's like a cruel and unjust version of the Home City from Age of Empires III; if you don't play multiplayer, you're stuck with shit-tier basic units in single-player skirmish while the AI gets access to everything to stomp your face in. If you do play multiplayer, congrats, you're getting your face stomped in by people who have higher levels than you and access to more toys.

>>14723073
Huh, it looks really different from the linear tank I remember from the series.

>>14723079
I'm amazed at how the absolute shitstorm that was CnC4 has faded into the pages of history just like that.

That thing is like how not to make a RTS.

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>>14723094
Probably because I didn't post the animation model, granted the animation model shows some of the shortcomings of the linear tank as a more "grounded" tank design (why are there 4 separate treads?).

>>14723101
C&C4 was basically another manifestation of Kane & Lynch/Doritopope/Gamergate, where reviewers heaped praise on it for being such a revolutionary take on RTS, and nobody listened to them.

>>14723109
See you say that but I swore reviewers shat all over it for the arbitrary breaking down of the factions into piecemeal bits you had to level up for banal reasons.

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>>14721596
Nope, that's the 1/35 model, pictured here.
Found the one in the OP specifically, and it's the 1/144 version:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/37164963@N06/8658060399

As you can see, they both appear to be on the same centimeter square grids.

>>14722185
>Das perfect tho.
Then you might also be interested in the matching Gundam Ground War set:
https://kaishangar.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/review-hg-u-c-hardgraph-1144-gundam-the-ground-war-set/

It comes with the Type 74 Hovertruck in it's M353A4 Bloodhound varient, as well as a ground type Gundam with extra Rail Cannons and GM hands and heads.

>>14723036
>Giant tanks are giant targets. And also there are other problems with huge and heavy tanks.
Still didn't stop both sides of the OYW from fielding freaking LAND BATTLESHIPS!

>>14723108
Easier replacement if you throw a tread, better off-road capabilities

>>14723114
I remember Gamespot, IGN, and Kotaku liked it. 7.5/10 from them, I think.

>>14723278
Except it would technically be more moving parts and it isn't needed, plus it wouldn't be better for off road.

>>14723312
Four treads can move much more flexibly over rocks

>>14722090
Giant robots are agile because of writer fiat. There is nothing about either legs or rockets that would actually make a 60 ton vehicle agile.

>>14723357
The US Army played a lot with the four-tread concept back in the '50's, but dropped it after some potential problems came up. To quote from Hunnicutt:

"Since each traction motor was capable of applying only 25 per cent of the maximum power from the generator, the loss of one track resulted in the utilization of only 75 per cent of the available output. Also, it could be shown that if one track was lost, it was necessary to remove power from its mate on the opposite side of the tank to permit adequate steering. Thus the loss of a single track resulted in a 50 per cent reduction in available power. It was not possible to switch full power to the remaining two tracks since size and weight restrictions made it impractical to install four traction motors, each with sufficient capacity to utilize 50 per cent of the generator output.

Another disadvantage of the individually powered tracks appeared when ascending a steep grade. Here, the greater portion of the vehicle's weight was supported by the rear suspensions increasing the power requirements at the rear sprockets. Also, when climbing an obstacle, the front suspension units might lose traction completely and
full power would be needed at the rear. This could not be done with the four traction motor design."

>>14723036
>couldn't cross bridges

Moot point, if its engines/exhausts were higher than the depth of any river it forded...

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>>14713802
The Federation had essentially achieved world peace when the T-61 was created. The corrupt bureaucracy that is the Federation military funded a bad project to make an overly expensive and impractical tank, understanding that it would probably not have to actually engage in combat much ever. Instead, it serves as a weapon of intimidation to unruly sectors of the Federation.

Okay but really the fast answer is that it was a dumb 70s design. It was created under the principle that people will think a 2 barreled tank looks futuristic and powerful. Notice how the original design looks more like some kind of goofy retro-future lunar rover than a modern tank.

Anyway their job is to job, but the Magella gun was pretty huge. In 08th MS Sanders gets his MS disabled by a Magella shot to the knee. Maybe one of the only times they're able to accomplish anything?

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No mention of the Hammer Slammers?

>>14723916
>dozer blade
>GEV

...would that actually work..?

>>14723916
God I hate the official art depiction. The cover art on the story collections is so much better, IMO.

They keep the hover tank concept but modernize it into something more evocative of the killer MBT from hell.

Then again they're more than just MBTs, they're ground skimming skullfuckers of anything that pokes its head above ground level. Fucking power gun future goddamn.

>>14723978
Yeah, that pic makes it look like a T-34 on a waterbed.

>>14713825
First post best post as usual. The Type 61 didn't have to shoulder the weight of being a 'realistic' tank until MS Igloo anyway; it started out as Dumb 70s Space Tank. But then you give it a Merkava/Abrams makeover and suddenly everyone wants to know why the sci-fi tank has two guns.

>>14714143
I'm still waiting for some drawfag or another to sketch up an MS-killer tank that's just a beam spray gun mounted on top of a GM reactor with treads on the side.

>>14723873
The Magella gun was often retrofitted into a hand held armament for the Zaku when they couldn't get shit like bazookas together. The gun itself is good but it is attached to a goofy tank that doesn't have a rotating turret in order to have a 'flying' one.

>>14723797
So they just need to invent smaller, more efficient traction motors so that each can apply 100% of the engine's efficiency.

I can definitely see how climbing would be bad with 4 tracks though.

>>14724010
The magella tank "turret" isn't close in dimensions to the magella top gun, it's much smaller. I think they just fire the same ammunition.

>>14723357
And we have mobile suits now to not worry about that.

>>14724176
The Magella tank varies widely in size depending on the series or individual scene. The gun the zaku uses is literally supposed to be the one on the tank refitted to be carried by an MS. The Zaku tank also is supposed to use the lower body of the magella despite the clear size difference.

Someone will inevitably post the size chart for it now that it's been brought up.

>>14721587
The tank should literally go flying if that was the case.

>>14724697
It does, why do you think they call it a Baneblade?
It's a play on Beyblade, once you fire the main cannon you let er rip.

>>14724010
>The gun itself is good but it is attached to a goofy tank that doesn't have a rotating turret in order to have a 'flying' one.
Fucking Magella was a damn self-propelled artillery piece...

>>14724386
>The Magella tank varies widely in size depending on the series or individual scene. The gun the zaku uses is literally supposed to be the one on the tank refitted to be carried by an MS. The Zaku tank also is supposed to use the lower body of the magella despite the clear size difference.
>Someone will inevitably post the size chart for it now that it's been brought up.
The Magella is usually depicted as fuck-huge, but yeah, don't expect constant scaling from a 70's cartoon.

>>14725005
The Magella has to be fuck-huge because it's literally a rocket-powered glider on top of a tank chassis that has to support the weight of the gun, the airframe, and the rocket fuel. And it only flies for like 15 seconds, and cannot land back on a Magella base.

>>14724697
What would probably actually happen is the gun would recoil so hard it either tore the turret off the tank or tore itself off its mounting, smashing through the rest of the interior of the turret.

>>14725119
>calibre does not equal recoiling force
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_cannon_by_caliber

>also, we're talking about a universe with literal adamantium as a construction material
>not to mention xeno minerals and materials as well as fusion casting and hand held plasma projection devices

>>14723797
It's a shame we're still using the same motors as in the 1950s, and will continue to do so indefinitely into the future.

>>14723953
It will if you believe in yourself.

>>14723990
>*pomf

>>14725898
>>also, we're talking about a universe with literal adamantium as a construction material
>>not to mention xeno minerals and materials as well as fusion casting and hand held plasma projection devices
Fuck man, Titan Void Shields shunt physical force straight into hyper space/hell...

>>14714177
Loto is a tiny MS. Just like the ball, The HGUC kit comes with two of them because one alone wouldn't be enough to justify a whole kit.

>>14719786
I want to see a show where mechs are light enough to float, due to being made out of high tech foamed alloys and having a density similar to a human.

Also, is the first part of that comic available?

>>14726764
>Tiny MS
Loto is literally 18 meters tall. A regular MS is 26 meters tall.

An Amerifat M1 Abrams is 9 meters long, and it's the heaviest tank in the world.

>>14727490
Yes, it is a large thank, but it is still very tiny by the standards of mobile suits, Making it a Tiny MS.

>>14726784
it's not quite what you asked for, but there's a bit in Sidonia where an engineer's lifting up pieces of a new prototype ultra-lightweight Guardian's chassis with one hand and completely losing his shit.

>>14726784
i had an idea similar to this called "bubble bots"

>>14713802
SEED Stargazer actually had a useful tank design, seeing that it could rapid fire with its autoloader

>>14727517
It's not a "large" tank. It's an unfeasibly huge tank. You'd have to build equivalent-sized tanks to fight equivalent mobile suits. And even then, the Loto was only introduced 20 years after mobile suits were, and it still couldn't mount beam weapons.

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>>14723873
>The Federation had essentially achieved world peace when the T-61 was created. The corrupt bureaucracy that is the Federation military funded a bad project to make an overly expensive and impractical tank, understanding that it would probably not have to actually engage in combat much ever. Instead, it serves as a weapon of intimidation to unruly sectors of the Federation.

Well, they were pretty precient about the future of japanese tank development anyway.

>>14728037
You think Japs won't be using the Type-10 in combat?

>>14727490
The fuck it is, the Loto is just 12 metres tall. Standard MS is 18 metres. Only fuckhuge machines like the Xi and S Gundam are in the 25+ metre range.

>>14728037
Whats wrong with the Type 10?

>>14728129
Loto still didn't show up until 20 years after 0079.

>>14727490
>Loto
>18 m
>General MS
>26 m

ahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

holy shit /k/

At least fucking read the source for once, not just sprouting bunch of bullshit around.

MS generally stand around 17 meters in early UC, and goes down to 14-15 meters in late UC, that is about the same as the length of modern jetfighters (16-20 meters). Only few MS that surpass those lines, but thats just Scirocco being a gasnigger, and both Char and Hathaway being a literal space autist.

>>14728138
What does that have to do with the size?

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>>14728223
>Modern jets are the same size as a mobile suit
Wait really? That can't be right.

>>14728252
He means they're as tall as modern jets are long. Not that jets are as tall as ms.

>>14728263
I dunno man. Part of me just can't see jets being as long as mobile suits are tall.

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>>14728266
Planes are big.

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>>14728266
That's because all the fighter jets in gundam are super compact mini-fighters so when you see them together in the same frame, you think MS are bigger compared to real life fighter jets

it doesn't help that gundam also fucks up the scale of tanks very often too. stuff like the zaku tank sorta doesn't make sense unless you realize the magella tank is supposed to be sorta same size as the guntank, except shorter in height

>>14728252
Has there ever been an American media franchise so iconic and popular with the citizenry that they'd build a life-size statue of it?

>>14723867
Actually, they were intended to work in pairs when fording the deeper rivers. Thanks to the electric drive motors, one Maus could act as a stationary generator to power the other one crossing the river via insulated cables. Their roles then get reversed after the first one finishes crossing.

>>14723978
In all fairness, they do tend to be vulnerable to stuff like infantry with buzzbombs & KE weapons with a good deal of cover, since powergun bolts have virtually zero penetration.

Unless your name is Slick Des Grieux.

>>14718034
to be fair most Imperium of Man vehicle designs are supposed to be more along the lines of WW1 designs than anything more modern(outside of weaponry that is)

>>14728351
*and armored vehicles with KE weapons

>>14728120
>>14728135

Niggas that's the type 90.
Which came out like a decade after 0079.

Also:
>You think Japs won't be using the Type-10 in combat?

They'd better fucking hope they don't have to, regardless of how good it is.


>>14728344
>Has there ever been an American media franchise so iconic and popular with the citizenry that they'd build a life-size statue of it?

Sure. There are loads, but it's a hell of lot less work when life-size is just the size of a person. I ain't seen no 20m statues around though, that's for sure.

>>14728424
Yeah but the Type 90 is obsolete and isn't the future.

>>14728252
>>14728263

This is the general sscale of of Su-37
>Length: 21.935 m (72 ft 9 in)
>Wingspan: 14.698 m (48 ft 3 in)
>Height: 5.932 m (21 ft 1 in)

And this is F-18 Hornet
>Length: 56 ft (17.1 m)
>Wingspan: 40 ft (12.3 m)
>Height: 15 ft 4 in (4.7 m)

And then, this is the general scale of the MS:

RX-78 Gundam
>Overall Height : 18.5 meters
>Head Height : 18.0 meters

MS-18E Kampfer
>Overall Height: 18.2 meters
>Head Height: 17.7 meters

So yeah, in term of scale, MS are as big as modern jetfighters. W

>>14722154
Well humanity was able to colonize a vast area of the Galaxy while the Eldar were still a large empire. Its safe to assume human tech used to be close enough to Eldar tech to allow for this.

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>>14728344
There's a statue of Rocky in Phili. And Detroit has been working on a statue of Robocop.

>>14728533
So then, what make MS unrealistic?

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>>14730660
Actually, in the context of debate, the word "unappropriate" is more fitting than "unrealistic" that people keep using over and over. It is unappropriate because people think that MS was intended to replace Tanks.

But most people aren't aware that that MS was actually intended to replace the Aerospace Fighters, since with the invention of AMBAC systems and aplication of Newton's Third Law, makes them more efficient, maneuverable and versatile than winged fighters.

>>14731044
i always thought they just ended up as the mainline space fighter because zeon made a load out of worker robots, and thigns just spiraled from there

>>14730660
Mechs are always slower than airplanes with none of the benefits.

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The apocalypse has begun.

>>14730660
What the fuck?
Do you really think the only reason mecha are shit on is because they're "too big"?

>>14730660
>>>/k/31327629

>>14730660
Because /k/ said so, and no, don't ask why anon you'll only makes it worse.

>>14731733
>Mechs are always slower than airplanes with none of the benefits.

Depends
>Earth
Well duh, they have no wings, exept that mecha (MS in this case) have almost 200 degree line of fire and far better and easily swaped armament, and ability to do other work than KILL KILL KILL, and lastly, not wasting much space for landing pads.

>Space
Assuming this is MS, so let see....
>Have more variety of easily swapped armament.
>Able to turn and stabilize themselves without wasting much energy on thrusters.
>Ability to do tighter turn by changing the legs thruster angles.
>Able to navigate more dangerous areas like asteroid field and colony ruins due to above.
>Can into melee.

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Speaking of the Type-61 and the Apocalypse tank...

>>14732545
Fuck off

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>>14719349

Please. The Reaver is the best Titan.

>>14723036

The fact that the German even actually took the concept seriously says something though.

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>>14733309
Not him but...
>Anon's poorly thought out point gets refuted easily
>Anon cant counter so he resorts to telling people to fuck off
Nice try faggot.

>>14718860
>retarded hands for no reason
>those armor plates on the side preventing the "turret" from rotation to the side

Jesus fuck...

>>14733342
>Please. The Reaver is the best Titan.
Reaver or Warhound is also good, just not HUGE like the Lucius Pattern Warlord.

>>14733372

If you were not a baby with 0 knowledge of physics you would know how retarded all of those points were.

Mechas are fantasy. They make no sense.

>>14732545
>200 degree line of fire

See video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g4_jzqBJnA

>better and easily swaped armament

Weapons bay is far better than hands. In every way.

Other points are not even worth talking about.

Do you even realize how much thrust you would need to lift a humanoid shape that's not aerodynamic in any way? Or how it would perform in actual flight?

>>14733444
>Mechas are fantasy. They make no sense.
No, you just don't want them to make sense to make yourself feel smarter.
We'll give you that there are limitations, and the applications may be niche, but Mecha WILL happen in one form or another.

>>14733349
Yeah, that something being they were run by a homocidal druggie.

>>14733456
Powersuits for lifting supplies, and maybe niche roles in specialized warfare groups maybe.
The TALOS is a thing after all.

But anyone who says mecha are gonna be mianstream combat vehicles, right alongside IFV's and tanks is retarded.

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>>14733454
Don't forget the fact that the F-35 has a full 360 degrees of aiming due to its EOTS.

>>14733456

Flying mechas are utter bullshit.

Walking mechas are fucked thanks to ground pressure.

Powered suits may become real. But actual mechas? Nope.

>>14733480

Yes. And we already have missiles that can destroy a target behind you.

>On 11 June 2007, a MICA launched from a Rafale successfully demonstrated its over-the-shoulder capability by destroying a target behind the launch aircraft.

>>14733456
Please don't be butthurt now.

>>14733456

Do you know what ground pressure is?

>Human male (1.8 meter tall, medium build): 55 kPa (8 psi)

>M1 Abrams tank: 103 kPa (15 psi)

This is the advantage of tracks. 100 kg man vs 70 ton tank.

Now imagine the ground pressure of a 20 ton humanoid mecha.

If you made it run in a city (where mechas are supposed to be better than tanks) he would be sinking knee deep in asphalt and fall into sewers/subway the moment he got above them.

Try making it jump around or walk of roofs like the often do in anime.

I like how the sole argument for jets winning is "missiles can hit targets behind the jet now hurrdurrrrrrrr." Like so what? Missiles get shot down all the fucking time by mechas. I honestly can't recall a single time missiles have been useful for anything in mecha anime besides just making pretty lights.

And on top of that, mechas can equip missiles too. a lot more, in fact. So your jet fires off one missile? It gets shot down, and then the mech fires off it's thirty missiles. GG no re.

You kids need to just grow up.

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>>14733534

This is some really poor trolling dude.

>>14733534
we're talking about mecha feasiblity in real life, not in a show where the entire premise is written around keeping mecha viable.

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>>14733495
Yup, and in the future there'll be anti missile lasers equipped on aircraft.
It might take a couple more fighter generations, but it'll be there sooner or later.

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>>14733534

Mechs also usually use guns in the air when guns are useless in air combat since first Gulf War.

Not even mentioning how they are flying bricks where all thrust is needed to just keep the thing in air.

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>>14733552

And they will put them on planes, not mechas.

>>14733569
Those planes look disgusting.
And too think people tried to get me to watch this shit because of the jet fighter section.

The most important things in air combat are speed and climb rate. Turning rate stopped being important in the middle of WW2.

This is why humanoid flying robots will never make any sense. They could never fly so fast and climb so well as aerodynamic plane.

Being able to hover and turn fast means nothing. And helicopters can do that while being 10 times less complicated and cheaper.

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>>14733579

Electronic warfare pods on top of the wings make more sense than you think.

>>14733595
Those jamming pods are mounted on the bottom of the wings.

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>>14733533
>Do you know what ground pressure is?
Yes I know what ground pressure is Anon...

>Now imagine the ground pressure of a 20 ton humanoid mecha.
...Who said anything about it being humanoid?

>>14733560
>>14733586
Why do you /k/fags keep focusing on air borne shit?

You do NOT put legs on something just for it to spend most of its' time in the air...

Also:
>guns are useless in air combat since first Gulf War.
Tell that to the Air Force and Navy Dogfighting schools, who ended up learning why we keep putting guns on fighters in the Korean War...

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There are far more impractical designs you should be complaining about than the fucking Type 61.

>>14733757
Its not a tank though.

>>14721201
>who have one 90mm gun of almost certainly lower velocity
>Factoring in nothing but sheer size alone, a 155mm gun should be a bit more than 5 times as powerful as a 90mm gun (directly scaled up, it's about 1.7x as long, with 3x the cross sectional area)
That...that's not how bullets work. Granted, MS are supposed to be firing tank shells rather than giant bullets, but giant bullets they do fire.

A smaller caliber pill will normally be FASTER for a comparatively-sized casing, so long as powder burn rate is modified and optimized accordingly.
A 5.56NATO or 5.45x39 round is far faster than what they replaced and are of reasonably comparable casings (a bit of a stretch of 5.56 from 7.62, but they're still both well powerful enough to be called rifle rounds regardless). The arguable reason for the switch from the Zaku 120mm MG to the 90mm MG is similar to the switch from 7.62x39 to 5.45x39; a far faster projectile better optimized for armor penetration (a 7.62x39 round is a fat, slow bullet in a sort of midgety case compared to zippy 5.45 which balances the powder capacity to pill ratio better). However, in small arms terms, the 120mm round is probably akin to the humble .22LR, considering the amazing amount that can be fit into a reasonably small Zaku MG drum. The switch to the 90mm probably was a far longer case and longer/heavier bullet/shell, just in a smaller caliber.

As well, penetration is a wash due to the massive velocity gain the smaller projectiles have. The same could very well be true for tonk 155mm guns to the Zaku MP-80 comparatively. Smaller, lighter (and we don't even know if the Zeon 90mm is even lighter; it could be a smaller caliber but long, heavy shell) projectiles are more easily dissuaded by cover, but their first strike penetration is still going to be pretty tops. Unlike small arms calibers and 5.56, there's not really any cover big enough to throw 90mm MS rounds off course unless the pilot is deliberately aiming into buildings.

>>14733787
But it still has two gun barrels, the whole point is sustained fire, and as a type 61 I'm pretty sure you want to double tap that zaku that's about to stomp you.

>>14721201
>Also why, if 90mm machine guns are so effective, didn't they just give their tank one of those?
Smaller caliber rounds are often really high fucking pressure, probably even more so once you scale them up into autoloading automatic-fire giant machine carbines. The tanks probably couldn't take the pressure differential in the smaller, faster round, whereas a purpose-built MS gun (without any people in danger from KB's in it) can be assumed to be more robust for the intended purpose.

>>14733739
Basically guns are useless at anything other than point-blank range these days and the entire point of flying is to never get within viewing distance.

>>14733826
Not taking any side in the argument here, just have to mention as a sidenote that, apparently, the '120mm' in the Zaku's 120mm MG is actually a measurement of the entire casing diameter; the projectile itself is more on 76mm or so. The MP-80 has a 90mm dia. projectile, though.

>>14733830
The only reason for the two barrels on the prototype was the inability to get the cooling system right. They fixed that on the production model.

>>14734061
>the '120mm' in the Zaku's 120mm MG is actually a measurement of the entire casing diameter
>the projectile itself is more on 76mm or so
Zeon, get your shit straight. That makes no fucking sense. What madman would designate shells/bullets with casing diameter?

>>14734154
Japan.

>>14734061
Yeah, and apparently the zaku 120mm shell itself is looked more like .22LR and .45, hence the shorter effective range and seemingly thinner mags.

The GM SMGs kinda fix it thought, using the more effective 5.56 like catridge only with smaller caliber, hence the wider magazine.

>>14733739
>Tell that to the Air Force and Navy Dogfighting schools
You have no fucking clue what you are talking about, holy shit.

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243KB, 388x587px

>>14721418
>In my own idea for a Gundam Setting

>>14733625

Because plane was not designed to have pylons on top.

>>14735052
We need to start a thread about the fanfic Gundams people have come up with. It should be interesting and getting critique from other Gundam fans should help people get better at it.