Worst mecha series cliches

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Grunt mechs fighting like idiots, because they're "not aces". This is especially annoying in battles when the grunts have numerical superiority.

There's a difference between not being an ace and not using simple common sense & imagination.

princesses adolescents and teenagers

>>14662798
char clones

>>14662820

Seriously. Quite a few of "ace pilot" Norris's moves are just common sense (using his environment to his advantage).

People acting like just the mere abstract concept of peace is the solution for literally everything.

>"This is [CALLSIGN]-4, reporting in!"
>They die before the series is up

Okay, we get it Japan, you guys were retarded enough to make the "Four" and "Death" the same word, ENOUGH WITH IT ALREADY

Overpowered hero robots.

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>>14662798
I have more of a problem with anime tropes in general rather than things specific to the mecha genre.

Kids forced by circumstance to be soldiers.

I mean, it's a decent enough premise. Until EVERY show starts doing it. Then nobody has anything new to say on the subject, and it all starts being predictable trash.

Also, non-practicing pacifist characters. How about for once you just show us how bad war sucks, rather than shoving the same tired cliched preaching down our throats for the umpteenth time?

The absence of agreed-up surrender conventions in mech shows.

Like if you blast a Zaku's arms clean off and render him defenseless. I'm pretty sure that's grounds for the Zaku pilot to declare, "I give up."

Doesn't anybody take grunt prisoners on these shows?

The absence of the civilian population and their opinion. If you are going to preach how bad war is you need to properly show the civilian perspective in a war.

>>14662892

Second this.

I'd rather see overpowered mechs whose overpowered nature actually turns out to be a recurring weakness ("Jack of all trades but master of none").

The designers try to make the super-mechs be able to do everything, so they end up sucking in many departments.

That'd make a nice satire of "hero mechs".

Gratuitous gore
Girl pilots a pink machine
Peace Princess/Diplomat's Daughter
Super environment specialized mecha

>>14662820
>Entire military upper echelon is not only unbelievably incompetent but also pathologically vindictive, greedy, wasteful and is also apparently completely unconcerned with actually running the military, yet somehow they all still have their jobs and haven't been replaced at the mid point of the war in spite of the fact that they're universally reviled by everyone.

>>14662941
That's literally just going "multirole is bad and you should feel bad," which is usually true to a certain degree. You have a high performance unit that can still be beaten in specific areas by using a minmaxed specialist mech.

It's really fucking common actually. First Gundam did it and even made the Gundam outdated by A Baoa Qu. In fact I'd say that there are more shows where the MC machine gets nearly destroyed by a specialist than not. Of course it can't actually lose or the show is over. Unless you're fucking Tomino and intended for Char to take his Goog and split for the Trojan Horse from the start.

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>>14662820
>Grunt mechs fighting like idiots, because they're "not aces"

It kind of makes sense in a setting like the OYW where it was the first deployment of MS in a large scale conflict. Nobody really knew what worked and what didn't. Those that got good at piloting where simply the ones that managed to survive long enough to have adequate seat time and notice how the use of mobile suits actually plays out in the battlefield. From there, the ones that became aces are the ones that were able to develop and successfully apply their own combat theory.

This explanation doesn't really work in scenarios where mecha combat as been experienced several times already and a sort of the a sort of doctrine could have already been developed to help train new pilots.

>>14662969
I don't know; have you read much about the two world wars? Particularly the losing sides?

>>14662960
>Anonymous 08/25/16(Thu)13:55:12 No.14662960▶
>Super environment specialized mecha

How specialized are we talking here?

>>14662912
I'm not down with mecha's character development with a big C when it's saying that getting drafted out of school middle east style only makes you more mature and capable. Though I'd emphasize the same point that it's a decent concept if you hadn't already, there are some where it goes awry I guess.

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>>14662914

Well, in the UC specifically, neither side is really very keen on taking prisoners. I mean, this is a war so dirty and costly that it makes the Eastern Front of WWII look spotless in comparison.

Further, it's a matter of cold military practicality. If that pilot gets away, the enemy retains some valuable assets: the suit and its pilot. The suit is going to be repaired and come back at them, and the pilot is going to be all the wiser, meaning it's a net gain for the enemy. It's simply more beneficial to take the unit out of the fight--and be sure it's out of the fight--than to deal with that uncertainty.

>>14662978
There were lots of ridiculous blunders and horrible leaders, but very few individuals managed to combine every conceivable negative trait at the same time or were at least somewhat successful.

In /m/ anime it's completely normal for any military to just have totally incompetent leadership all the way through and for anyone in a position of authority to be some ridiculous stereotype.

It's almost as if Japan has some kind of history of heavily segregated social classes and authority figures with zero accountability.

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>Humans can tolerate up to 100 g's for more than a few milliseconds

I want a series to acknowledge this in a way that's more than a quick two second shaky shot of the pilot grunting

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People who jump into a mech first time and are apparently good/the mech does the work.

Just wish every now and then this would happen only for said person to get killed in an instant

>>14663017
Well, obviously real people aren't cartoon villains, but the amount of corruption and incompetence in some armies borders on unbelievability. Particularly Russia in WW1 and China in WW2. Granted, these weren't exactly modern states, but they were considered major powers.

>>14662986
Something specialized for tropical, cold climate, jungle, beach, volcano, etc. Space, aquatic, and ground (gravity) are fine.

>>14663049

Extreme heat and extreme cold mechs make sense to me.

>>14662798
Obligatory "Prototype is stronger than the mass-produced model"

>>14663041
Actually, that's a cool idea for an OVA or something. Sort of a "realistic cliches" thing. You'd need a big cast of characters, because you'd be losing protagonists left and right.

>Inexperienced kid boards a giant robot in a combat scenario: gets killed unceremoniously and quickly.

>Pilot falls in love with hot enemy soldier chick, gets court martialled and swiftly executed for treason when he inevitably disobeys orders to protect her.

>Superpowered special snowflake unique hero mecha gets permanently grounded after its first sortie because something major broke and (since it's the only one of its kind) they don't have enough spare parts or mechanics trained on that machine to fix it.

>Peace Princess (especially if not actually a real princess) preaches peace or speaks out against some conflict in the story. Gets ignored completely because who fucking cares what that sheltered little twit has to say about anything?

Etc, etc.

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I'm tired of piloted robots. That shit's been done to death. We need more remote-controlled robots, especially from non Yokoyama properties.

And if you must have a pilot, at least put some kind of interesting spin on it. Explain why it needs a pilot, have stipulations on the pilot for using the robot, something.

>>14663136
Piloted robots are a cliche that exists for a good reason, though. It's hard to establish any sense of danger whatsoever when the characters aren't even close to the front lines.

And if you mean like Siebzehn or Giant Robo, where the character rides on the outside of the mecha, that makes even less sense for a combat machine. Either it needs someone on-hand for some level of control, in which case they need to be well protected on the battlefield, or it doesn't, in which case why the hell would a pilot be anything other than miles away in a bunker or something?

>Ships getting blown up incredibly quickly by Mobile Suits
If Mobile Armor can stand up to attack from mobile suits why can't they just build ships the same way? Its crazy how a strafing run by a suit can just blow up a ship thats huge.

>>14663155
Making sense is never something that has mattered in mecha fiction.

And the problem of danger can be easily solved by just making the stakes that high that even the control facilities are threatened.

>>14663122
Subversion for the sake of subversion is never a good idea and the final product is ultimately worse than the cliched one.

>>14663155
>>14663174

Could always make it a moral question.

Is it moral to pit sapient A.I programs against one another, with no say in the matter?

The best format is a tournament where AI mechs are sent to destroy each other, for human amusement.

>>14663180
Yeah, I've always wondered why we don't get more mecha shows that are about sports instead of combat

Both topics contain oceans of hot blood as it is; they'd mix well together.

>>14663108
I think that may be a cliche that arose from the car market, in which concept vehicles often look way, way cooler than any final production models that may or may not eventually be made from it. Since concept cars are usually designed with aesthetic appeal first and are often static with no ability to be driven, they don't have to worry about things like daily use, driver/passenger comfort, handling, weight, safety for both occupants and pedestrians, cargo space, practicality, and so on. Once those are all designed into a car for the production version, it often looks much less exciting.

Why that got translated into military machines in most mecha series, I couldn't say. Maybe something to do with Japanese disarmament causing people to look to a civilian industry for inspiration during the time this trope first started to get established? That's just conjecture on my part, but maybe.

>>14663088
I believe there are steps that can be taken to prevent any sort of mishaps, or in general why station anyone near a volcano.

>>14663185
You'd think so, but then you end up with shit like Basquash.

>>14663186

The reasoning is that the military removes a lot of fancy features, for ease of mass-manufacture and to cut costs.

It's not so much a cliche as it is the sign of awkward writing kicking in: plot-induced stupidity.

You know it when you see it; events begin to conspire in such a way that the cast, despite having gained experience in their adventures, suddenly experience decisive lapses in judgment that culminate in a swift and abrupt yanking of the carpet right out from underneath them. "What could possibly go wrong" immediately becomes "it couldn't get any worse," all because the plot demanded it.

I don't think I've ever seen hubris play out in a work of fiction without it coming off as incredibly artificial. Sure, "pride before the fall" is a thing, but it always seems to telegraph itself through the cast actively trying to get egg on their face.

>>14663207
You'd think that, but I for one can't think of a single example of the final production version of any military planes, tanks, or other vehicles being less capable than their direct prototypes.

>fight between the main hero and villain
>They will Attack each other in turns
>futhermore, every hit will cut off a hand, leg or head of the mecha
>suddenly, main hero with his headless, partially destroyed mecha will dodge the hit and will deliver a deadly strike that will kill the bad guy

>>14663225
I think it's more of a Japanese thing, that you start with the masterwork and then simplify for production.

At least, I believe that Japan's pre-WWII military production habits fit that pattern. Stuff like rifles starting off incredibly well made only to descend into garbage as the need to produce more became an issue.

I may sound stupid, but the thing that annoys me in mecha is that all mecha are right-handed, especially Gundams. All of them have either a gun in the right hand and a shield in the left one or simply take guns/laser sabres. Maybe you CAN give me the example of the left-handed mecha.I was thinking of Turn X but his right hand in not even a hand

>>14663041
G gundam actually kind of did this.

Some dumb brat kid trying to steal the God Gundam, almost gets crushed to death by the mobile trace system since he neither has the physical capability for it nor is it set to suit up a child.

Even the youngest pilot in that is Sai Saichi, and he's been trained in superhuman martial arts since birth specifically to be the gundam fighter of his temple and bring their name back to life.

>>14663230

Which is interesting because the pattern in Gundam seems to be "the best mobile suits appear absolute last, but always in too limited numbers to make an impact" (mirroring how advanced German weapons showed up, but never in sufficient numbers for said military's needs).

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>>14663244
LEFT HAND RULE

>>14663166
Yeah, it makes it seem as if all their carriers and battleships are just massive vulnerable wastes of money that can be sunk my any asshole in a mech, like their point defences barely even exists

>>14663244
>>14663251

Realistically all mechs should be able to switch between the left and right hand.

There is not enough teamwork and tactics. Seems like protagonists rush fly off to some random place and attack the big bad.

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>>14663279

That definitely seems to be common. They fight more like Samurai in service to a Feudal Lord, with some military overtones slapped on.

TFW the Flight Gouf in "Battle in 3 Dimensions" doesn't properly coordinated with the Sniper-Zaku team, ensuring both of them are eventually defeated by the Gundam.

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>>14662914
>Doesn't anybody take grunt prisoners on these shows?
The last time someone tried... Well...

>>14663049
Are you for real? If anything that's something we need to see more of.

>>14662912
honestly I'd like a show where the main characters are all pro-war, would be a decent twist at this point

>>14662960
>Gratuitous gore
agreed, it almost never works, also showing civilian casulties onscreen, which also never really works

>>14663122
eh that would get old incredibly fast

>>14662820
>>14662854
>>14662858
>>14662892
>>14663041
>>14663108
>>14663122
>>14663166
>/k/ bitches about /m/ tropes #365247

>>14663279
It seems like most protagonist mecha aren't built for teamwork and tactics of any kind but just to be some kind of invincible swiss army knife.

>>14663391

"eh that would get old incredibly fast"

Not necessarily. It could be played for manic laughs like Fooly Cooly, with some black comedy thrown in.

Basically making fun of mech shows in general.

>>14663414

Honestly a group of well-trained Zeon mechs could take on a Gundam and win. You get the protagonist stuck in a multi-story urban environment, and gradually wear him down in a prolonged battle. You conserve your ammo and let him use up his own.

>>14662914
Remember in Ryan when they let the pow go and then he came back to kill captain Miller? Yeah.

>>14663449

Key word being "let him go". You don't take prisoners just to release them a handful of minutes later, you take prisoners to hold onto them for a prolonged period.

>>14663438
Like what happened in 00? Trapping the Gundams in a 14 hour long ground battle.

And it would have worked too... If not for those meddling Throne gundams!

>>14663483

No. I was thinking of what Norris successfully did with just one Gouf, against the 08th MS Team. And he was fighting 3 Gundams simultaneously.

Imagine a similar strategy, but with multiple Zakus against one Gundam.

Peace bs

>>14663122
How about said pacifist eventually gets assassinated

>>14663520
Norris was full of shit, he was explicitly doing spiderman stuff that were blatantly physically impossible while everyone else was forced to operate under gritty pseudo-plausible physics.

Also ground Gundams are inferior to the Gundam proper, they were built out of the reamining spare parts of the V Project to give more suits on the ground

If anything you should be saying that if the GG's and the MP-Guntanks had used proper tactics they would have been able to defeat the ace in his custom suit spidermanning around with minimal casualties.

>>14663585

The basic idea was sound. Fight the Gundam in an environment that worked against it.

>>14663244
Graham's Flags and Brave are all left-handed IIRC.

His S2 mechs both dual wield so it doesn't really matter there.

>>14663166
Shit is annoying when they shoot something so innocent like just the bridge or an engine and the whole ship lights up like a tree like wtf

>>14663599
But the gundam is MORE effective in a city than a Zaku. Its beam rifle can shoot through multiple buildings and still kill a Zaku, while in close quarters the Zakus are massively outclassed.
Not to mention the only weapons that a Zaku can be carrying that can reliably damage lunar titanium are too long/bulky for that sort of cluttered environment.

>MC moons over a girl who never seems interested in him
>Girls are all over MC's dick, but he's oblivious.

Fuck that shit, give me another Kamille. For all his problems, the little autist actually did alright with women.

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>>14663698

>>14663122
>Peace Princess (especially if not actually a real princess) preaches peace or speaks out against some conflict in the story. Gets ignored completely because who fucking cares what that sheltered little twit has to say about anything?

Meanwhile news outlets treat Sarah Silverman as a credible source of political wisdom.

>>14663225

The original USS Nimitz could fly and had a beam cannon that was powered by the feelings in the bridge crew's hearts, but CNN and the liberal media won't report on it because it could hurt Clinton.

>>14663559

Realistically, after the coup she flees to America and posts on twitter a lot and eventually marries a rapper.

>>14662820
Or when you have flying ms/aircrafts standing still while firing, while holding the shield defensively and still getting one shotted.

>>14663719

But nobody treats news outlets as a credible source of political wisdom anymore.

>>14663520
Yes well, but in 00s1 until the GN-X everyone had a super inferior ms compared to Celestial Beings.

08th had a custom gouf not really different in terms of defensive, offensive capabilities and overall performances; hell, in 00s1 even the most advanced flag or custom tieren was pure shit compared to a GN Drive ms.

There's more mecha shows than gundam you know, maybe if you watched other series you would see more variety and less "cliches"

>>14662892
I don't mind this if the villain's is as powerful.

>>14663892
>tfw everyone who complains about """"peace princesses"""" is obviously fresh off of seeing Seed

>>14663923

IBO actually

>>14663934
You must be an illiterate space rat, you clearly saw Seed.

>>14663619

It's hard to root for a protagonist who is virtually invincible. What incentive is there to genuinely improve if you can coast on your machine's armor?

>>14663923
00 and IBO and Unicorn all have peace princesses.

>>14663225
I can think of that all the fucking time. Planes are usually faster as prototypes. The prototype BMW-003 engine was, for the exact same reason as the gundam, four times as powerful and much more durable than the production version for the simple reason of materials used. You also have your obligatory super-oneoff prototypes like the YF-23 (stronger than the F-22A), YF-12, and Su-47. This extends to tanks as well, with your obligatory MBT-70, formerly the K2 Black Panther (which is essentially a Super Prototype put into mass production in its own right, and is as troublesome and expensive to use as anime would suggest it should be), T-95 and Abrams Thumper.

>>14663957
>YF23
>stronger than F22

>>14663244
I think the only reason for that is that it translates the pilot into the machine. Most people are righties, so they would probably keep the weapon on the side that they're used to.

>>14663957

There's a maxim that states the more complex something is, the more likely it is to break down on the user.

This encourages the military to prefer reliability over sophistication, as it makes maintenance less of an issue.

Realistically the Gundams should have been maintenance nightmares, considering their sheer level of sophistication.

>>14663934
Wing actually

>>14663923
I seriously can't think of a single one outside Gundam. Maybe the Macross idols, I guess? I can't even count them since none of them were really moralfaggy about it except Sarah and maybe to a very small extent Ranka

>>14663194
>or in general why station anyone near a volcano.

The same reason millions of people live near Volcanos.

>>14663049
Space, ground, desert, tropical/jungle, aquatic, colony, winterized are all acceptable types.

>>14662798
>characters calling out attacks

In all anime really. Shit feels stupid when they can just do the attck without having to call it out all the time

>>14664364
Anon, dear, if they can't call out attack names, how are they supposed to show off their hot blooded fighting spirit?

I mean think about this, anime characters spend a lot of time thinking up and creating their special weapons. They have every right to announce them loudly and proudly at every opportunity.

>>14664364
Leave this board immediately.

>>14664364
I bet you're the type who'd attack during the combination sequence, you heathen.

>>14664482
Why don't they ever do that?

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>>14664537

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>>14662798
>Basically the stuff you're tired of seeing.

People talking about cliches and tropes

>>14662798
High school kids who are top of the line mech pilots right from the word go.

>>14664364
Anime voice acting is generally hammy, though. Thats why you get this a lot.

>>14663049
You better not be shit talking my boy the Hygogg and his aquatic buddies.

>>14664170
Asseylum Vers Allusia.

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>space fight amounts to a still image of either mecha flying over a space backdrop, occasionally firing at each other

>they try to target each other, but their targeting systems can't lock on

>"NANI?! H-HE'S TOO FAST!"

>this continues until the end of the episode

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>>14663244
I'd assume that's because there's no point in differentiating it for left handed people because the way the mech handles it doesn't matter. Like how in the 3D Zelda games, Link was traditionally left-handed, but that doesn't matter for right-handed players because swinging a sword and shooting things is ultimately the same button commands. It wasn't until the Wii's motion controls were incorporated that Link started to be right-handed.

>>14663351
It doesn't make sense though, you don't see jets specialized to their environments, tanks, choppers, etc. Why make an entirely new variant when you could just use some dust covers, or anti-freeze systems on a production model?

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>>14663698
>Fuck that shit, give me another Kamille. For all his problems, the little autist actually did alright with women.

He even got best girl in the end.

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>>14664702
>He even got best girl in the end.

But Rosamia died, dummy.

>>14664717
He was the man that could be a big brother to her,
don't make it weird Char.

>>14662798
I wish they'd just execute the rogue pilot rather than tell them they normally would have been executed had they not been extra special snowflakes.

>>14664541
Not an answer.

>Mechs doing ninja shit that ignores physics.
>Mooks being incompetent.
>Hero has an overpowered suit that he's skilled at using, instead of the villain.
>Shoddy politics.
>Aimless pacifism. ("WAR IS BAD" without ever addressing the politics that make people willing to kill each other.)
>Really shitty dialogue and hammy voice acting where characters try to over-emote. (i.e. anime characters screaming their emotions)

>>14662960
Nah man, gore's important. I hate it when shows try to sanitize war.

>>14663956
Unicorn's was some hair-pulling shit.

>>14663956
Marina turns out pretty useless though. Her role as a peace princess is probably the most realistic one.

GMs just walking while Zeon MS are doing all sorts of fancy shti.

So what I've learned from this thread is that in addition to /v/ and /pol/, /k/ has now decided that they can just do whatever they want here too?

Magic of speeches. Like in IBO, when a single speach by Kudelia can change the point of view of everybody.
Magical survival of characters. Again, in IBO Ein was shown to kill a kid and two Turbine girls, they were bleeding. And in the next episode Ein is rekt like a bitch and the rest of the cast is alive and well.
Almost every cute female politician, who says obvious things. And the whole political systems in general. Nobody tries to make proper connections between economics and politics. Except maybe for Dougram, LoGH and UC, but UC is pretty primitive at politics.
The idiocy of grunts.
The antagonists with lack of motivation. "They're evil just because. Or because they're insane". If there's an obviously insane guy, why is he the lead and not a patient in asylum?
Stupid pacifism and wish to negotiate. An enemy commander has just downed a cruiser full of wounded and injured people. What should we do? Come out of the cockpit and negotiate, while the hostile sniper is aiming at you.

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>>14664364
get out

>>14663122
I'd kill for such kind of show

>>14664717
Did you even see that bitch? She ain't got tits for squat.

Well, I'm okay with all of them. I wouldn't be watching mecha if I were tired of some tropes.

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>the opening not playing in the final battle

>>14663449
That was pretty contrived, honestly.

>>14664662
What is Zeta Gundam

>>14664662

Honestly it's like they've never heard of switching to manual. Don't fire where your opponent is, fire where he's going to be.

>>14664915
>>Mechs doing ninja shit that ignores physics.
>mecha
>in charge of following physics

>>14665109
This mostly applies to Real Robot shows giving up partway through the concept. Gundam is especially guilty of this later on, with shows like Zeta/ZZ.

>>14665085
In Gundam and Macross they've implied that most of the mecha controls are automated.
Because of this it seems that most grunt pilots don't seem to try to get Bette at manual control.
Also not every grunt is that skilled, becoming a mecha pilot in most cases is probably as simple as joining the modern-day military.

>>14665114
>shows where dead people can stop mecha and combine them
Outside of 0079 gundam's physics become very unstable.
At times it'll explain shit but when it wants cool stuff to happen it throws everything out the window.
Honestly I don't care since it still entertains me and I don't watch it expecting planetes levels of realism.

>>14665025
>Magic of speeches. Like in IBO, when a single speach by Kudelia can change the point of view of everybody.
I'd be okay with such speeches if they actually are remarkable or insightful. So often we get these ten-sentence speeches that say nothing other than the self-evident, or what we all figure out for ourselves when we turn the age of ten.

>>14662820

See VOTOMS.

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>>14664537
>Why don't they ever do that?
Someone hasn't seen Nadesico, I take it?

I want a mecha anime where one of the villians tries to attack the robot while it's combining, but it absorbs him. It kills him and then reshapes his machine into a shield or cannon for the heroes' robot.

>>14663966
Supposedly, the YF-23 is faster than the F-22, and has better stealth capability. The DoD picked the Raptor because it was more agile, easier to maintain, and they liked/trusted Lockheed more than Northrop at that point in time.

>>14665288
I've seen all sorts of shows do that. I think even Voltes V did it. In Gravion, it kicked off the last quarter of the show and marked the point where the show became the show I always knew it could be

>>14662854
>huehue, war is easy

Love Triangles
When a character is really strong but loses because they sabotaged his mech.
Main character is a pacifist who doesn't want to fight but wipes the floor with everyone.
Bright Noa not slapping all these angsty teenage pilots. I lost count on how many times I wanted him to slap Kira, Athrun, and Shinn.

>>14665326
If the F-23 won then people would be bitching saying they should have picked the 22 because innate dogfighting ability is like superior nippon samurai katana unlike shameful gaijins who rely on dishonorable high tech ranged weapons.

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>It's OK I didn't kill anybody I only shot their weapons
I'm not inherently against this as long as it's portrayed as both far riskier then taking them out normally and only possible against a pathetic number of hopelessly outgunned grunts

>>14664217
How a colony custom ms should be fitted? Being able to move/fly inside and in space?

>>14665431
>It's OK I didn't kill anybody I only shot their weapons
They don't just switch to melee weapons or try and ram the enemy

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>>14665401
>When a character is really strong but loses because they sabotaged his mech

Same

>>14664364
Kill yourself, heathen

>>14664537
Because only faggots of the highest caliber would do that
A perfect example being Sekai and his team from BF Try

>>14665011

>Implying /k/ hasn't done it already with the constant "Hurr is mecha feasible in real life" shitposting threads

>>14665424

>America
>Not putting technological superiority over everything else

>>14666835

I bet that /m/ would cheer if the Renatos brothers do it because of "antagonist/rival privileges"

>>14662854
The ability to keep a cool head and use "common sense" in the middle of a high-stakes firefight is incredibly useful and something I would only expect from a seasoned veteran, not a bunch of grunts.

>>14666838
>I bet that /m/ would cheer if the Renatos brothers do it because of "antagonist/rival privileges"
Their whole shtick is "dick moves and plans within plans". They were fun as a battle where the Meijin wasn't just curb stomping everyone, and as one where an OPERATOR MS actually was competitive with a protag-suit.

Compare it to the ReZELs and Jegans in Unicorn, with none managing a hit on the Kshatriya, Sinanju, or Banshee.

>>14666754
Fucking Fagiri. Did he get his ass handed to him in TDA rematch?

>>14665294
Didn't the Getter Robo Go manga do something exactly like that?

Pretty much anything that's not animated and also not set in the UC calendar before the year UC100.

>>14668277
IIRC Walker reks him and his frog friends.

>>14663923
Wing

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>>14662798
>at least five to ten grunts fire against the good guys
>Bonus points for entire ship armadas
>Not a single hit

>Teenager pilot/highschooler better than seasoned war veteran in one month

>"Only you can do this -insert MC name here-"

>Show is supposed to be heavy on political themes
>Only shows "corrupted politician no.453005" arguing with "corrupted politician no.23049"
>characterization and plot is faux psychological bullshit that completely disregard actual politics and economics

>Peace princesses

>Beam spams

>huge swords of light

>The same tired, shitty "soul of the machine" meme without it actually meaning anything but convenient plot armor for the MC during decisive fights

>"Maybe you and I are not so different after all..."

>MC achieves some incredible feat with a seemingly outdated robot
>Turns out the robot was donut steel seekrit prototype in the end

>Show is on Earth
>Enemy army shits tons of units in extremely short timespans no matter the losses
>Never ever explains where or how they find the materials/money to do so.

>year 20XX
>Robots and secret prototypes gets stolen by kids and the likes
>enough science and technology to create bipedal machines of mass destruction
>Nobody bothers putting some security lock on them
>let alone store them and guard them efficiently

>MC robot heroically charges against grunts
>The grunts stay there waiting to be slashed/shot

>"real" robot show
>MC mech conveniently never runs out of energy

>After images
>With mass

>MC mech has access to omnipotent magic mumbo jumbo reality bending bullshit
>because
>never uses it for anything but gimmicks and the final fight, and if it's the final fight it uses it just for the final blow

>"Earth is a very special place in theuniverse, we, Super Advanced Elder Alien Civilation no.80790, have been keeping an eye on you cavemen and are very upset about you for some reason"
>"Damn, these earthlings have superior technology"

>ctrl+f hayai
>0 results

>>14662798
>mecha always stomp the shit out of non-mecha
>you never get really cool asymmetrical battles between mecha and infantry/tanks/aircraft/etc

>>14664482
Fuck being Fair


Win if you can, Lose if you must, but ALWAYS cheat!

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>>14669079
These.

>>14669156
>Basically the stuff you're tired of seeing.
>implying you can see them if they're hayai

>>14669079
Good list except for the security locks which comes up and is explained in every thread but still good list

The lack of coordination between the super-strong mechs and the grunt mechs.

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>>14669079
>huge swords of light
fite me

>>14670778
The one thing IBO does right is avoiding the meme of beam saber duels.

Too bad its mechs have like 5min of combined screen time across the whole first season or something stupid like that.

>>14670835
no they just have meme solid weapon duels

>>14670835
>Beam sabers are a meme
>Giant katana is not

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The good side having more advanced weapons and gear than the villains. I want the protagonists to be the underdogs.

(Also why did this Zaku fall over? Isn't the cockpit in the chest?)

>>14670901
Random fact, balance in humans is handled in the ears.

>>14670901
If you're blinded and there's a crazy custom mobile suit a foot away from you, its probably a good idea to pretend to be dead.

>>14670901
The zaku's computer ought to have kept it upright, though the pilot might've panicked as his camera feed was blasted away and fumbled the controls a bit for it to fall over.

>>14670855
I'll grant you the katana, fuck that shit.

I want more of the hammer/(non-claw) mace.

>>14663041
My least favorite /m/ trope is also the progenitor of my favorite /m/ franchise.

God damn it, Amuro, why do you do this to me?

>>14670966
The first time Amuro gets into the Gundam he can barely walk and coasts on the Gundam's nigh-invulnerability. Then he gets his shit slapped by Char and learns to be a good pilot the old fashioned way.

>muh newtypes

He didn't use any Newtype powers until after meeting Lalah.

>>14671043
I kind of interpreted that to be the "mech doing all the work," but I guess it really is its armor just being so damn good because it's the first of its kind and Zeon hasn't adapted to them yet.

Zone of the Enders would be a definite offender, and I love that game. 10 year old little shit gets into the mech and it just teaches him everything he needs to know.

>>14671054
>Zone of the Enders
My disbelief has seen its fair share of suspension, but when my fourteen-year-old player character who'd been piloting a robot for less than a day was declared a better pilot by an old military man named Rock Thunderheart...

...well, never mind, "Adam" was supposed to be the Runner, and for all I know Thunderheart didn't have experience with Orbital Frames, maybe he was only trained in LEV Running. I guess it's a little understandable, don't fix what isn't broken.

Adam... a mysterious character. Could've been a villain in ZOE3.

>>14671154
Hey, he might be able to handle the Jehuti in less than a day, but its just ADA doing most of the works.

Also, Leo's only able to beat Thunderheart after 2 years worth of training in Vic Viper. Only after that he get Rock's full approval.

>>14669079

Maybe you should just stop watching anime.

>>14669079
>The same tired, shitty "soul of the machine" meme without it actually meaning anything
A machine having a soul refers to an inherent belief in shintoism that anything that has a soul if it has exsited long enough. The samurai believed that a sword that has slain enough enemies has a soul and life of its own through absorbing the blood and soul of others. Very chuun in nature. And a mech is basically just a really big sword.

>>14664364

What if the move only works when you call out its name?

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>character gets exposed to real life war and fighting
>acts like it's nothing and brushes it off

Not saying every show needs to be like Gundam 79' or Evangelion, but it somehow bothers me that some person is just immediately okay with murder. Yet I also hate the "I DON'T WANNA KILL" phase that most of these shows go through.

>>14671525
>but it somehow bothers me that some person is just immediately okay with murder.

Some people are just like that. They tend to make good soldiers.

>>14662798
Everything in Gundam, they're always the fucking same.

>>14671528

Then acknowledge it. Even Victory Gundam has a fucking throw away line to justify why a 12 year old is murdering people.

>>14671562

Maybe because most people don't like the idea that some people are just inherently psychopathic and that anyone you know could be that and even they don't know it.

Honestly, I can't think of any cliches I dislike. Cliches in general don't really bother me, and there are lots of them I like.

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>>14671573

Statistically, the number of people naturally predisposed toward dissociative disorders is very low (about 1%). So no, not just "anyone" could be "inherently psychopathic."

>>14664364
So you realize this is based on a very old Chinese martial arts tradition right? That if you call out the name of a skill when utilizing it you will release a strong Chi and maximize its effectiveness

Retarded MC teenager is the only one that can pilot super special mech and zero military discipline.

>"I am a hakaishin who knows nothing other than tatakai"

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I need more trigger-happy office lady pilots.

>Normal dude
>Sides with the villains because the hero has some unnatural power that makes him uneasy
>Ends up causing casualties because of it
>Gets away with literal murder

>>14670778

Ideon did the huge sword of light thing the absolute best. Mainly because they're not really swords, just huge lasers that get swung around like they're swords. As well as the loud wailing howl the things let out when used. Added a lot of flavor and mystery to the things.

>>14663398
these are more like cinema sins gripes where the cliches make sense in terms of the story but not logically upon closer inspection

and since they are cliches people will have plenty of times to take a closer look at them

>>14663174
agreed

>>14663155

you could still have unpiloted mechs while keeping the stakes high by:

keeping the amount of mechs fighting to a very small number

making the protagonists heavily reliant on unpiloted mech/mechs

making the mechs very costly/time consuming to repair

>>14671834
what show isds that?

>>14670901
Mech series treating giant robots like humans is a pretty big offender, if a mobile suit loses its head it is not rendered incapable of combat or suffered catastrophic damage (outside of odd cases like the Zeong where the cockpit is in the head), it has only lost the main camera and still has secondaries.

Hell even losing both arms isn't enough with some suits, depending on if it has serious weapons built into the body or shit like funnels.

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>>14672207
A one-sentence summary should be good enough to figure it out:
>Android cat fights the combat robots of her creator's estranged wife in a very expensive child custody battle.

>>14662969
I only let this go if it's the early part of the war

>>14671054
But anon, YOU are Leo

>>14672630
I can't come up with anything.

>>14672630
>>14672740
All Purpose Cultural Cat Girl Nuku Nuku?

>>14663122
That would kind of be cool.

>A kid falls in love with said Peace Princess in the span of five minutes, then she gets killed and he vows revenge
>It turns out he had mental problems and that princess was the only person who cared about him

>>14670966
It was new when he did it.

And besides, the only reason he won anything before actually obtaining talent was, as the show says, because the RX-78-2 was literally that good.

>>14671996

People seem to forget that despite the definition of the word, cliches are not inherently bad. The whole reaosn people use them is because they're inherently recognizable and thus generally don't confuse the viewer in terms of story elements.

>>14674433
I would say that a cliche is only a cliche when it's bad. And that's the result of it not fitting with the story, but that it has been inserted into it from another piece of fiction where it originally did fit in. Someone did it properly, then someone decided to copy a single element without considering the whole. Thus, it is jarring and becomes a cliche. The originator of a cliche is never a cliche, because it always works in its own context so well, which is why people copy it blindly because they recognize its greatness, but lack the skill to actually implement it in their own work. So, cliches aren't used because they're recognizable, but because the people who use them aren't skilled enough for them not to be cliches. This, I believe to be true.

Y'all need more Majestic Prince in your life.

>The general in charge is an incompetent twit.
>Gets recognized as such and removed from a leadership position halfway through the show, replaced by someone far more competent.

>While the protagonists fight, politicians do their politics shit
>None of them are treated as evil, only wanting their nations to be strong and oppose the enemy too
>In the end they're all unified against the common foe

>The protagonists have actual teamwork instead of the main character doing everything.
>When the rival enemy wants to fight the main character, the MC is actually used as bait so the rival fights only him and doesn't fuck with the rest of the military operation.

>A peace princess type of character appears
>She never tries to force pacifism on anyone and in fact she's the one who gave Earth technology to oppose the alien invaders to begin with
>Doesn't fall for the main character because she's actually his mother

And so on. For a supposed by the book show it sure does do a good job at avoiding the book's most annoying cliches.

>>14664482
I loved when Akihiro just sniped one of the royal guard while they were doing their silly team cheer-and-pose.

>>14674433

No, that's a trope. A cliche is a trope which has been used so often that people recognizing it greet it with disdain. Tropes are not bad, but cliches, by their nature, are distasteful.

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>>14662798
No kevlar or protective gear besides a helmet on the infantry
when there are gigantic mechs and double-barreled
tanks with big fucking guns prancing about

>>14675105
Which artbook is this from?

>>14675105
I mean, when there's giant mechs and double-barreled tanks around, a kevlar vest or even most other conventional armor isn't going to do a whole fuck of a lot of good.

Best to keep the soldiers mobile if body armor's useless.

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>>14675105
>No kevlar or protective gear besides a helmet on the infantry

The One Year War is a total war, anon. The totaliest of wars. When that happens, the kit fielded by the infantry becomes more and more basic, because you have to equip a LOT of grunts, and that cost adds up. And considering the sorts of heavy weapons being carried around in the UC, strapping a few plates on a grunt is only going to be good for slowing him down. He is honestly better off without it.

>>14675105
>>14675150
Of course the real reason for that is WW2 aesthetic.

>>14675118
>>14675137
>>14675150
I mean at least a flak jacket or something right?

>>14675170
Anon, a Zaku's shell casing is like the size of a person or some shit.

The projectile is proportionally hueg. Armor's useless.

>>14675179
I mean things like shrapnel from more conventional weapons
of which there were many in the OYW.

>>14675137
>>14675150
You do realize that shit like plate-carriers is just cheap insurance for you to GTFO and deal with the threat immediately? It's not even about protecting infantry cats from MS-sized weapons, it's about making sure they don't die in fucking droves from basic shit like shrapnel. Going by your logic, real infantry shouldn't bother with protective gear seeing how gunships, tanks, and even crew-serve weapons will chew them up just as easily.

Infantry dying is so much more fucking costlier than having to equip them properly.

>>14675196
>>14675187
Infantry are going to be dying in droves even with the flak jackets, anon.

I guess the thing is that UC doesn't tend to portray very much infantry combat so it's easy to forget about in the setting.

I've always thought they needed some armor, too, but figured it was a non-issue with the 60m death machines stomping about.

Also, anon.. you should know,, real infantry don't fight forces with access to tanks and gunships anymore, and haven't for 20-30 years.

>>14675196

Not really. Not when we can stick those amputees in cast-off mobile suits so they can continue to contribute to the war effort in some capacity.

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>>14675187

Given the high mobility of the armor game in the OYW, most infantry combat is going to be dug-in. In those instances, it's your fighting position which provides you with protection against shrapnel--Mother Earth is pretty damn good in that respect.

>>14675196
>Infantry dying is so much more fucking costlier than having to equip them properly.

And infantry survive by not getting hit at all. A key aspect of that is mobility. If the enemy is fielding large numbers of weapons which will kill a man if they so much as graze him, it is far more beneficial, and cost-effective, to give the soldier his mobility rather than bog him down. Give him the ability to move from cover to cover, minimizing his exposure to the enemy entirely, rather than give make him so slow he dies by indirect fire because he couldn't exfil fast enough.

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>>14675196
>>14675212
>>14675223
You know I just realized this is the first real back and forth
little debate I've had on 4chan in quite a while I guess it's the little things

>>14675318
Isn't it great when things don't devolve into mindless shitposting?

>>14675223
Mobility can only increase so much. what weighs a soldier down is likely his weapons and ammunition. body armor is not that heavy. and, even so, these are not little gnats zipping around the battlefield. these are human beings. not amount of non-armoring is going to allow a soldier to dodge a bullet.

and, one of the many innovations that has made war less and less deadly is troops being outfitted with helmets and body armor. even just helmets increased soldier survivability in the second World War, over the first.

and, its not just the cost of a dead soldier to consider. think about troop morale, and the support of the people back home. watching your buddy bleed out from a shot to the gut is so much more terrifying than having him killed ,instantly, by a missile. Having your child come back from the front in a box hurts a lot more than having them come back in a wheelchair.

>>14675363
>body armor is not that heavy.

You clearly have never worn body armor.

>>14674529
good point. you don't often see such sound, wise logic on 4chan

>>14674587
I will have to watch this. most mecha shows are so terrible... stuff like Knights of Sidonia is rare as unicorns

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>>14675368
Well still you'd think that with space colonies and mobile suits
you'd figure they'd make a relatively light and cheap form of body armor

>>14670917
and in robots, it's handled down in the ass, or some other massively armored, out-of-the-way place.

remember, humans are the product of environmental pressure acting on preceding species. mecha have no precedent to be based on. that they even have heads is conceptually silly.

I get that you have to handwave a lot of logic when you are doing giant mecha, but don't just get stupid with it

>>14674587
Stop shilling your shit show Majestic Pissant.

>>14675223
Consider a Zaku fires their bigass machine gun at a boxed down infantry position. Now whilst the Zaku didn't directly hit the infantry, that's still a tonne of dirt, rocks, and all sorta little bits of shrapnel flying about. That's why we have body armour, to protect against those little things.

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>>14675363
>body armor is not that heavy

...And three sentences in, I already know you have no idea what you're talking about. Thanks for the heads-up.

Take it from an actual infantryman, son: body armor is indeed heavy. A medium-size IOTV weighs thirty pounds, and even that is only good for stopping small arms and shrapnel; if you go up against anything bigger than a rifle, it isn't going to do you any good. And as stated earlier, heavy weapons are ubiquitous in the UC, so why slow the troops down?

>not amount of non-armoring is going to allow a soldier to dodge a bullet.
No, but cover is going to catch that bullet for him. And being able to minimize your time out of cover--to move from one safe spot to the next before the enemy can train his weapon on you and fire--is a crucial part of survival. If you are wearing armor, you can move less far more slowly. That's a bad trade-off.

>even just helmets increased soldier survivability in the second World War
You're thinking of the First World War, and that was because helmets provide a reasonable bit of protection against shrapnel. But you know what provides more protection? Actual cover, like a trench or a fighting position provides. The helmet was introduced because dudes were catching shrapnel to the head even in the trenches, and they needed something specifically to mitigate that.

All that aside, pointing to either of the World Wars as being "less and less deadly" is poor logic, given they were the most deadly wars in human history. WWII actually had twice the number of casualties than WWI, so that also defeats your other point.

>think about troop morale
And guess what? None of that matters in the middle of a firefight. The men are concerned with surviving and killing the enemy, their NCOs are concerned with directing at the enemy and keeping them alive, and their officers are concerned with ensuring everyone is operating according to a plan. Morale is measured outside of combat, not in the middle of it.

>>14669079
Ugh... this whole list. someone needs to email this to Sunrise/Bandai/whoever.

some of this stuff works for just pure emotional impact, though. like the giant light swords, or the "soul of machine". that scene in the first episode of Eva where Unit 1 spontaneously moves to protect Shinji was just dumbfounding. other shows, where it isn't explained that the machine might have it's own soul, is just dumb.

peace princesses are tired as fuck, but they serve a very useful function in a story about war. Beam Spams will never not look cool

can I add:
>child genius somehow comes up with cash/materials/facility/mastery in multiple engineering and programming disciplines, and builds multi-billion dollar war machine in middle school. hell, fucking Child Genius, in general.

and

>all powerful ultimate mech was built by MC's dad/uncle/grandfather. therefore, MC has some kind of magical skill to be an ace mecha pilot. he didn't inherit dad's engineering skills; he inherited a totally different set of skills.

>>14675457
Yeah we need Bandai to laugh at us because we see """"peace princess"""" everywhere.

It's not a cliche, it's a meme promoted by people who don't watch enough anime.

>>14665060
I love it when that happens! that's how you know shit has gone straight to hell and it's all about to come down. even better is when the ending theme doesn't play. GRIM MUTHAFUCKIN DARK

>>14664170
they usually only show up in shows with politics involved. Rinne No Lagrange actually has three peace princesses, although only one is literally a princess

>>14675486
Is peace princess the new deconstruction?

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>>14675430
Well, I ask, why are the guys staying in the hole at all?

Consider an M2 Bradley rolling up on a prepared infantry position. It trains its 25mm cannon on the position and starts firing. It doesn't matter if the guys inside are wearing their armor or not--it doesn't matter if the Bradley scores direct hits on them or not--that gun is going to kill everybody inside, either from shrapnel or because of concussive force, because that's what heavy weapons are designed to do.

I ain't staying in that fucking hole. As soon as the armor shows up, I'm going to crawl, sprint, and scramble like a motherfucker until I've put a major terrain feature between myself and him. I'm going to get the fuck away from where he has the advantage and fight him on terrain where he can't follow or where the odds are better for me. Hopefully, my higher-ups will have planned for that, and we'll have prepared some secondary positions in such a location from which to continue the fight. Better yet, they'll have whistled for some armor or air assets of our own, because infantry alone going up against armor always takes heavy casualties.

Whatever the case, my ability to GTFO with the quickness is what allows me to survive. And if enemy armor is going to be common, I need every advantage I can get. Against a combined-arms enemy, mobility always trumps protection if you can't have both.

>>14675449
But we're talking about the far future, not the present day
technologies change and advance all the time

>>14675573
so what, are you just going to handwave all problems away just because it's the future?

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In regards to body armour on soldiers...

Look at what the Fed's Anti-Zaku squad was wearing.

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>>14675604
And compare to the Zeon's own landing taskforce.

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>>14675581
Well all I'm saying is that it isn't unreasonable to presume
that future technologies especially in a franchise like Gundam
might be able to eliminate problems like overly heavy body armor.
It bugs me more because it makes the infantry look alot more
low tech than they really should be.

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>>14675212
>Infantry are going to be dying in droves even with the flak jackets, anon.

Of course, I know infantrymen will die in droves, but it's still fucking cheaper and better to armor them to a reasonable extent.

>Also, anon.. you should know,, real infantry don't fight forces with access to tanks and gunships anymore, and haven't for 20-30 years.

Crimean conflict currently has non-sand niggers going up against each other with combined arms. But really, modern forces aren't going to stop equipping their guys with plates, eyepro, and whatever the flying fuck just because they're fighting against another modern force.

>>14675535
Honestly, this is a very bad example that just paints the infantry as being completely redundant. Comes off as no better as "why have ground forces when you can orbital bombard it?" argument. The Brad will toast you regardless of your fucking mobility, never mind you're even more fucking vulnerable to shrapnel its sending your way.

Let's be honest with ourselves, the lack of armor and actual sensible gear on OYW infantry and even beyond is simply for the sake of aesthetics. I honestly enjoy the service-uniform-like appearance, but it's not because it's fucking practical.

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>>14675610
Even in 0096, Anti-MS squads still wear lightweight stuff.

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>>14675637
Another shot of the Zeon landing taskforce.

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>>14675573
>>14675619

But you know what hasn't changed, even in the UC? The basic composition of the human body.

Even assuming you can come up with some super-special awesome alloy that will resist even a .50 round while being light and thin enough to strap onto a man, the meat and bone behind it is still very prone to trauma. There is nothing you can do to stop the energy transfer from that heavy round, to the armor, to the tissue underneath, and that is still going to kill the man. It's called "hydrostatic shock" and it causes far more damage than the bullet alone.

And that's just talking about direct-fire weapons. With artillery and such the concussive force alone is enough to mush a person's brains even if they are miraculously missed by shrapnel. Given the sorts of heavy-caliber, high-velocity munitions being hurled around in the UC (a Zaku's gun is 105mm), it is, again, pointless to slap armor on the troops, so why even weigh them down with those few extra pounds?

There's only one way around the vulnerabilities of the human body, and that's to put it inside an armored box. Preferably, and armored box that can move, like with wheels or treads or legs or something.

>>14662798
>mid season upgrades
>100 different mobile suits/mecha unit
>everyone having custom mecha
>one guy can take out 20 grunts with no problem
>incompetent enemy generals everywhere
>the villain's final solution is to destroy the Earth
>the villain starts to become unhinged in the final third
>pacifist leaders
>space batleships that are made of paper.

One of the things that I liked about SDF Macross was its understanding of Military hierarchy, protocol and apart from Max and Milia, no one was invincible. Anyone could be shot down or hurt by anyone. Roy, for being the ace pilot that he was, was mortally wounded by 3 faceless Zentradi pilots. It really gave a real feel to the whole war.

>>14675535
Yeah, you run away from the hole, but you better hope none of that shrapnel hits you while you're running.

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>>14675629
>Honestly, this is a very bad example that just paints the infantry as being completely redundant.

That was an example based off my experiences during a couple of training exercises where we had Bradleys on the OPFOR, and yet we still managed to destroy the entire section of fthem through planning, position, and, yes, mobility.

We did this by first staging several ambushes far in advance of the objective the OPFOR was trying to seize; they didn't expect us to be able to move that far undetected, and so we caught them unawares, knocking one of them out with an AT4. This forced them to dismount their troops in order to engage us, as we fell back into the woods where their thermals couldn't track us and their guns couldn't touch us.

We quickly began bounding back to the objective, a small village with numerous one-story buildings, keeping one step ahead of the dismounts the whole way. We fell into some prepared positions in the outermost ring of buildings in the village, and waited. Soon enough, we heard the sound of those big diesel engines.

As soon as the Brads rolled up, we immediately displaced, put the building between us and them, and fell back to a hill behind the village where we had further positions prepared. The Brads hesitated on moving into the village proper, instead (rightly) waiting for their infantry to move up to support them. But by the time they arrived, we had turned a Javelin on them and GG'd the Brads with no re.

Now, we still took considerable casualties (between the two light platoons we had on the objective, we lost 23 guys) but we would have taken many more if we had lacked the mobility afforded by being 30 pounds lighter, and regardless, we rendered the enemy combat ineffective.

So, no, it's actually a very good example.

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>>14675769
As an aside, what did you think of the mock combat scene in Origin episode 3?

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>>14675760

Let's see... guaranteed death in the grave I dug for myself, or the chance I might get hit while displacing from that grave, which only lessens as I put more distance between myself and it?

Yeah, I'm still gonna run, thanks. And I'll run faster than the guy still wearing his armor.

>>14675789
If I'm perfectly honest, I haven't seen it. The scene from IGLOO, though, is a good example of what not to do if you're infantry facing armor.

>>14675196

Please tell me the bottom one is fake.

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>>14675817
>is a good example of what not to do if you're infantry facing armor.
You sure about that? It sounds like they had a sound strategy, it just got fouled by the one squad firing too soon and tipping off their location, and the abrupt appearance of a third buried Zaku. Which is hilarious when you think about it, cause that means he was there the entire time his two teammates were getting blown up.

Well, if you have a chance, at least give episode 3 of Origin a shot. I'd like to hear your opinion on that particular scene.

>>14675698
Forgot to add:

>the lack of any actual infantry units.

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>>14675653
>And that's just talking about direct-fire weapons. With artillery and such the concussive force alone is enough to mush a person's brains even if they are miraculously missed by shrapnel. Given the sorts of heavy-caliber, high-velocity munitions being hurled around in the UC (a Zaku's gun is 105mm), it is, again, pointless to slap armor on the troops, so why even weigh them down with those few extra pounds?

Because we do it in real life. Instead of beam weaponry and MS-sized guns, we have smart munitions due to the lack of Minosky particles. I'd imagine it's fucking easier to hide on-foot in UC thanks to the cover Minosky particles until I'm in handjob distance. We would have stopped with the sweet ass 90s aesthetics had we known using plates and kelvar does jack shit, but it actually does. What all this really says is that you're wasting resources even bothering to deploy infantry in MS-dominated battlefields when you can just entirely regulate them to logistics and occupying structures.

>Even assuming you can come up with some super-special awesome alloy that will resist even a .50 round while being light and thin enough to strap onto a man, the meat and bone behind it is still very prone to trauma.

And then the guy comes out with fractured ribs instead of being red mist.

>>14675769
And if this was real life, your positions would have been shelled from a distance by the Brads and fire support, then the Brads will roll up to your positions once they think you're softened up. OPFOR training has never been about truly simulating real combat and all the wacky bullshit it entails, it's about setting up all the soldiers and leadership for failure so they can analyze their actions and learn from it. If I'm taking fire from an IFV, I sure as fuck want to make sure I'm still god damn protected from stray rounds and shrapnel when I GTFO.

>>14675846

It's a double amputee veteran who volunteered to help out with medic training, I believe.

>>14665294
Thats literally the Getter robo Go manga.

>>14671732
Explain all the horrible shit Russians soldiers did to german civilians during WW2, only to go back to their families and live a completely normal life never hurting anybody again
Being in the Shit, far from home, tired, hungry, youve almost died a few times. Makes you different person who would do things you would normally never think of doing

>>14673026
So in other words, You want Gundam from Chars point of View

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>>14675449
>Take it from an actual infantryman

I don't take anything from literal retards.

>All that aside, pointing to either of the World Wars as being "less and less deadly" is poor logic, given they were the most deadly wars in human history. WWII actually had twice the number of casualties than WWI, so that also defeats your other point.

Yeah, you are genuinely retarded. I bet you had to get a waiver, didn't you?

>>14675040
>but cliches, by their nature, are distasteful.

Then why do some people like those cliches?

It's because it's inherently subjective if they're bad.

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Why bother putting extra armor on your troops in settings where the commanders fully expect 90% of them to die anyway? Just slap a flak jacket on them and prepare the next human wave attack, because that's the only strategy most fiction writers understand.

>>14676137
>Explain all the horrible shit Russians soldiers did to german civilians during WW2

They were in full PAYBACK mode for all the horrible shit German soldiers did to their people.
Like the endless escalation of a slap fight between kids, no side is satisfied unless every blow is returned with exactly the same ferocity. You're not being mean, you're just returning the favor... That sort of reasoning.

Now the Germans who set the standard were fucked up, just take the staff of concentration camps, for example. They also never returned to normal lives but died as fanatics.

>>14675427
Everything he said's true, though

>>14676137
>horrible shit
Nothing out of the normal behavior on the occupied territories. I don't want to say that rape and looting are not crimes, but this happens during every war between any nations.

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>>14676559

>>14662798
Random 13-15 year old schoolkid fall into cockpit of mech after his hometown/city is attacked by the enemy (name your own)

Mech is governments top secret weapon but left unguarded and easily accessible to random schoolkids for reasons.

Random schoolkid is a pro at piloting it even though he's never held a gun much less pilot a advanced top secret mech.

The person that was in charge of said top secret mech gets into contact with random schoolkid and tells them that there is no time and random schoolkid needs to fight the enemy.

For reasons unknown he's a pro and defeats the enemy.
He's asked to continue piloting the mech because of more reasons.
Random schoolkid has a identity crisis after learning he killed people

>>14662798
Lately? MC joining a private, special group, instead of the main military.

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>>14675789
>mock battle with actual projectiles
>no eye protection

>>14678167
Pfft, only nerds join the regular army, cool main characters join elite groups that don't answer to nobody and don't bother with lame stuff like military discipline.

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>>14678380
goddammit he's right

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>>14675604
>>14675610
>>14675637
>>14675652
Do they even have ammo on them?
where are their spare mags?

Actually I take it back, there is ONE cliche that actually bothers me, and it's because it exists due to sheer misinformation.

The cliche of "you can't attack it, it has nukes, they'll explode!" That's literally not how it works. Nuclear detonation is a precise science, and in fact that easiest way to render a nuclear device worthless is to blow it up with something else.

>>14678848
Afaik the quick fix to that is to replace explosion with radiation pollution.

People are real touchy about that. Even if it's something as small as a nuclear battery for a pacemaker.

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>>14676222
But they don't even do that

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>>14678848

What >>14678855 said. NBC crews have to go around and clean up tank battlefields because of all the depleted uranium flying around in them.

>>14678855
>>14678977

Yeah but let's be fair, the leaking of radioactive material is never the thing shown as the danger in the show.

Plus, it literally doesn't matter if you're in space. Space has more radiation naturally floating about than what's in those rockets.

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It seems like a lot of mecha shows have ether two guys that like one girl or two girls that like one guy and one of the pair never make a move. This episode causes omega feels.

>>14662931
>MS 0080: War in the Pocket

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>>14679200
I just got around to War in the Pocket today, was pretty good. I agree it does provide a good civilian perspective, and an interesting one at that.
(I'm not the anon you were talking to, just a random passerby)

>>14662798
super modes in real robo

>>14665085
One of the nifty things about the F-86 Saber that helped propel it over the Mig 15 in Korea was that the Saber had a gunsight that would tell you where to aim to hit the Mig.

>>14669306
This. This always annoys me.

>>14671562
It actually helps that you don't see people, just the mechs... It's partly why ranged weapons became so predominant, it helps to kill someone if you don't actually have to see them.

>>14676514
First recorded atrocity in Europe in WWII was done by the Soviets, they killed 8000 Polish officers after Poland surrendered.

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>>14662969
>>14662978
>>14663017
>>14663045

Let's Look at the historical record.

Stalin:
>Killed off most of his best commanders in purges because of paranoia
>Loses Winter War against tiny Finland, largely due to lack of competent commanders

Khrushchev:
>Tries to turn cold and infertile Khazak steppe into breadbasket
>Tries to get farmers to light campfires to keep grain warm at night
>Didn't prepare enough infrastructure to ship grain
>Most of what they managed to harvest just rots because they can't get it distributed fast enough

Hitler:
>Does pretty good at Blitzkrieg, but passes up chance to take Moscow because there were still uncaptured cities to the west (he wanted to capture things in order)
>Sends men to capture Stalingrad, which has no strategic importance
>Diverts Panzers from capturing Caspian oil fields to reinforce Stalingrad. This wastes Panzers time, and forfeits opportunity for free oil
>Lose Stalingrad, forces get cut off
>Commands entire eastern front to dig in while spread all over the place, rather than trying to regroup

Mao
>Commands entire population of farmers to stop farming and melt down farm tools for to make steel in DIY blast furnaces
>shoots anyone who refuses to do this
>Most farmers stop farming, no food production
>tools melt down into useless slag iron, not steel as intended
>no food farmed and no tools to farm with
>millions starve

>>14663166
>>14663252
It's really the command rooms that are an achilles heel

Also how Whitebase-derived carriers seem oddly immune to these tropes

>>14662914
It's a war of attrition, but it actually did happen in thunderbolt. When the Gelgoogs captured all those guncannons, balls, and lifeboats

>>14679516
Well Stalingrad technically was strategically important
but in hindsight it's relevance to the campaign as a
whole were relatively insignificant

>>14674587
Hmm, I was pretty close to dropping this show because of some of the annoyances that you've mentioned, like the incompetent general for one.

I still hate Tamaki though. She's annoyingly retarded and lacks any sense of urgency during battles. Not even DUDE TIDDIES AND ASS LMAO can redeem her shittiness. What ticked me off the most was when she was in Suruga's line of fire.