Muv-Luv

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>>14657661
Post what you have so far.

>>14657666
I don't even need to post an image to say that the best I got in 132 rolls was five 5 gems.

>>14657661
It that Takeru or main character of Strike Frontier?

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>>14657870
I don't think we've ever seen SF's protag, only heroines.

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You I find it funny that all those TAF in Stroke frontier are looking like D-Style Kotobukiya plamos.

>>14657870
Yes, that's takeru in panels 3 and 4. The protag for SF is ourselves, thus no art.

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>>14657883
>/m/ is SF's protag

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>>14657666
I really hope game gatcha will not be that bad as this slot machine.

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>>14657666

>>14657878
yeah, now that you mention it. But then again it is simple chibi mecha design.

>>14657883
So...when can we expect translation?

When does the game start?

>>14658213
I think there is a maintenance scheduled on 8 25th that will last from 4am to 6:30 am. Maybe after it game finally launches.

At least that what I think moonrunes on my android DMM app say.

>>14658199
>>14657661
The flow of time is heartless

The UN forces are multinational, thus military personnel of many countries gather.

Patsukin Boin no Chan-Ne darake kita
Rough translation: It's here, a view/place full of older busty blondes
[Notes: Akaru is doing the JP variant of pig latin. Kinpatsu Gold Hair, Nee-chan Big Sister]

Akaru's certainly an old man inside...

Besides, which era is Boin[g] even from? Showa?

(Huh?)
^ Takeru

Ah, right, they did something like a "Nostalgic Showa Compilation" on TV or such

What...in the world?

(Nostalgic!!?)

>>14657875
Why are they all lolis? Lame.

>>14658333
They're merely not as stacked, and are supposedly 2-3 years younger?

>>14658320
Thx anon, saved.

>>14658366
So 15-16? No thanks, I think I'll stay with main Trilogy girls and up.

>>14658366
I think they are all 18. Same age as original cast. 207 squad is just senior in terms of their time as cadets.
>>14658320
Thank you!

BTW can anyone post translation of previous 4koma?

Is there any way to play the VNs on an android tablet? I know the Kickstarter is releasing one. But God knows when that will be.

So the emergency maint was for nothing? how much do we have to wait.

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I know in general, /m/ seems to hate SM, but is anyone at least a little hyped for Martyrs next month?

>>14659830
>I know in general, /m/ seems to hate SM
That's because, I don't know, it's not even Muv-Luv. It isn't written by Kouki, and it doesn't even have Muv-Luv in its name like every other spinoff.

Not to mention that its edgy trash with idiotic characters, shit girls, and laughably bad plot. There's characters who literally have no motivation beyond I'm good/I'm evil, and the politics is black and white good/evil bullshit that belongs in a crappy fantasy story than it does in Muv-Luv. The only good thing about it are the TSFs, but that isn't enough to make up for the deficiencies elsewhere.

>little hyped for Martyrs next month
Do you see it being discussed? That's because no, we do not have an interest in it or anything related to SM.

>>14659830
I'm looking forward to it.

>>14659881
Kill yourself.

>>14659830
Sure why not, could be good if they don't fuck it up, or might be another kusoge. Only time will tell.

>>14657974
>This is my 1st mobage
Oh you poor, poor soul

>>14659916
It can't be good when the source is shit. Really, age should have made more Eurofront or TDA and forgotten about SM.

>>14657875
They may turn out to be interesting but for now lack the depth of the other series' heroines. Good news is if your waifu is from any branch of Muv-luv you'll probably get some new lewds for her.

>>14660106
Fuck off with your repetitive mindless bullshit.

>>14660128
I don't think it's mindless. I offered my rationale for hating SM a while back.

>>14660187
Theres nothing rational about your position, you have neither read nor played SM and sperg out whenever its mentioned with your over the top opinions. At this point it is very much mindless and repetitive. You clearly have mental problems that no one here is qualified to help you with but in the mean time its getting annoying, stop posting shit or rethink your approach.

>>14660208
>you have neither read nor played SM and sperg out whenever its mentioned with your over the top opinions.
I don't need to. The anime confirmed all my fears as far as SM is concerned. Watching SM made me feel like I never wanted to watch anything Muv-Luv related again.

>At this point it is very much mindless and repetitive.
That's pretty much most Muv-Luv discussion at this point excepting SF.

>You clearly have mental problems that no one here is qualified to help you
Wow, resorting ad hominem now, huh?

>stop posting shit or rethink your approach.
I will post it as many times as necessary. We don't need these threads shat up with SM.

In any case, I don't like to continually have this argument. I don't even like talking about SM from a meta perspective. It'd be nice if all SM discussion just stayed off of /m/.

Strike Frontier is a far more interesting avenue of discussion anyways.

>>14660237
>In any case, I don't like to continually have this argument. I don't even like talking about SM from a meta perspective.
Then stop bringing it up, dumbass. You saying this after months of saturating the threads with your garbage is hypocritical at best and beyond delusion at worst.
>Strike Frontier is a far more interesting avenue of discussion anyways.
Not really. If you are so interested in mobage garbage, there is a general on /vg/.

>>14660246
>>14660237
Holy shit, this thread was fine until this fucker >>14659830 posted! You both go back to wherever the fuck you came from.

>>14660257
>this thread was fine
/m/ is not the board for mobage discussion.

>>14660261
Problem with Muv-Luv threads is taht this series is now spread all over different media. Anime, Manga, Mecha, visual novels,mobage etc.

So we can either open serval thread in each board for each one of those in thematic boards or we can keep it all contained in one.

I preffferlater becasue I'm tired of /a/ repetitiveness were thay are talking only about SM and most of the time talk is about:
"This is my waifu" and "that (girl) is if for bullying". At least here I can experience nice change of pace.

>>14660381
/a/ threads are stew of piss and diarrhea, so you made the right choice.

>>14660392
Says the incarnation of ceaseless bile. I won't defend /a/ but you sure love to shit up /m/ as bad as any shitposter can try. Drop the meta shit already you tard.

>>14659830
>I know in general, /m/ seems to hate SM
Don't confuse a couple of retarded autistic shitposters for the whole of /m/.

>>14660527
I actually like SM, but I know better than to say anything about it here.
I also like Total Eclipse

>>14658525
ask this anon
>>14658373

I know that I probably skipped one of the 4koma so far, last I checked.

Throwing a heads up to the danbooru uploader, ya missed one.

https://twitter.com/azusa_maxima/status/765855124778397696

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>ML thread is alive
I missed you guys. SF still hates my guts though.

Don't tell me the 3rd gacha is also a month

>>14661034
we will find out in 7 1/2 hours.

>>14661034
I hope it is, maybe then I'll be able to get an S00mika or at least a SR.

>>14661042
>implying 20+ more rolls will help

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>>14661048
Stop crushing my dreams.

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>>14658525
here 1 to 6 and the video dialog.

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>>14661110

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>>14661113

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>>14661115

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>>14661117

>>14661048
It's better than no chance at all.

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>>14660755
Not him. But I migh as well upload it here for everyone to see.

Or was it already done in prevous thread and it was already translated?

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>>14657666
Got one card.

>>14661121
This is number 11
>>14661522
This is number 10

Ofutung anywhere

Akaru's thing is a hat, right?

Fufufu, this is a secret weapon.

Like this...

*su-pop*
*zzz*

It's an incredible thing that lets you sleep anywhere.

H-hey this is the hallway...
Ah, LTJG Pyatykh...

This boin pillow is also pretty nice...

Uh...what am I supposed to do about this...

That Laser-class that appears when the game is loading. I don't like it. It almost looks like it's teabagging my results.

>>14661691
Additional note: Ofutung is apparently some closet cult relgion about sleeping (Ofuton and all)

>>14661691
You doing God's work anon. I'm sure all that good karma will get back to you with lots of rolls with SSR cards in mobage.
>>14661110
>>14661113
>>14661115
>>14661117
>>14661121
Oh. Thank you. Saved for the future.

I think I'll have to make danboru account myself to be able to add those translations.But I'll give it few more days.

Oh and don't worry. If I get to it, I'll not claim them as my own. I'm not such asshole.

>>14661731
Sadly, my luck has been rather horrible with today's turnover being the highest I've ever rolled so far.

1x 50 rare gacha currency
6x 5 rare gacha currency
44x 10,000 ingame standard gold currency
89x 200 regular gacha currency

I know I shouldnt complain 3 Craptors on the current phase so far but
>Rollan since day 1
>not a single ssr

So Strike Frontier next year?

>>14661829
Site and twitter have no dates.

>>14661895
I don't have a date either :(

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>>14660755
>>14661522
>>14661691
Thx anons.

And here made full version, will update as new stuff becomes available (but keep a screen cap yourself just in case). >>14661731

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I had a dream last night that I was flying across the snowy hills across europe, when suddenly my TSF decided that decending was a shit idea

I got lasered, and crashed behind enemy lines.

I got chomped in my dreams

2spoopy4me

How would the EDF fare against the BETA?

>>14663527
Ask >>>/v/

>>14663527
Honestly not very well given the BETA's swarm tactics that make them comparable to Starcraft's Zerg. While the squishy BETA classes are still squishy, the BETA hivemind thingy has a somewhat tactical mind and a major of the EDF's arsenal is effectively neutered due to Laser-class keeping the skies clear of bombing runs, recons, and supply drops. You have hardshelled BETA doing a literal phalanx charge and any people who try to get too high above the charge get hit by close range laser support or the Fort-class following up the phalanx charge.

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>>14663457
Stay strong anon.

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Sales of F-22 is banned by US govt, but I managed to snatch one

その勘違い野郎なら知っている、日本のモビルスーツを頼んだらアメリカのシールを貼った日本の劣化品をドヤ顔でもってきた、しかもその後逃げたし

>>14665164
Those model kits look awesome. Maybe I should get myself one of those.

Are they hard to assemble and paint?

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>>14665191
Kotobukiya kits has more brittle plastic than Bandai, although in general painting should be the same as gunpla. However in my experience with F-18, the parts snap very tight. If you plan to paint it, plan ahead. Its hard to disassemble later after you snap them together.
Without paint they still look good enough. The Raptor just missing various small blue dots and lines. Pic is how it looks without any paint.

>>14665168
What did he mean by this?

>>14665286
>However in my experience with F-18, the parts snap very tight.
Yeah, they really look good unpainted for that reason. No gaps. I really do think that the quality is just higher than Bandai kits. They are even more easily removed from the frames.

>>14665286
wenever i build a shiranui, i sand a bit the skirt pieces , to they dont scratch the front of the legs

>>14665286
That looks like dogshit, the hell are you talking about.

Remove the stupid jump units too, they're terrible.

>>14666892
Get out.

Can someone give the app link to play striker frontier on mobile?

>>14669269
The game's not out yet, isn't it?

>>14669269
http://www.dmm.co.jp/netgame/social/-/gadgets/=/app_id=459697/
Not sure if its mobile

>>14669269
You need to download the DMM app and then download the game from there.

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heh, I was rewatching Macross Frontier and found this scene really funny

Its taking too long to release Strike Frontier. My hype is pretty much dead by now

>>14671085
good

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBGNpaO1rn4

>>14671085
Didn't the pre-reg open like a fucking year ago?

>>14671120
Why are the original girls so much better than any of the girls that came afterwards? Even Tama and Chizure, two of the weakest characters in the original games, absolutely BTFO of any of the girls in EF, TDA, TE, and SM.

>>14671177
because everything afterwards is just fluff.

>>14671177
They hit gold with the trilogy. Every iteration afterwards has been worst. It makes me shudder to think what age will come up with after Schwarzes Marken is done.

>>14671189
If I were to rank by girls, I think it would go ML>>>>>KGNE>>TE=TDA>EF>>SM. TE had some good girls, and some bad ones. TDA was kind of average. EF had a bunch of anime cliches and the girls were numbskulls. SM is basically edgy shonen tier and has got to have some of the most badly characterized and fake girls ever (not really a problem since romance barely plays a role in it).

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>>14671177
It depends on your type, mainly. Meiya, Kei, and Yuuhi are the only ones that I really like out of the main trilogy girls, unless you want to count the other half of Isumi's Valkyries, because out of them I only dislike the Suzumiya sisters. Most of the TE girls are pretty great, and I like Iris and Pham from SM too.

>>14671277
I ended up liking most of TE's girls. There's just something consistently good, not great, but good about them. Cryska, Stella, and Cui ended up being my favorites. Iris, Pham and Gretel are the only girls in SM worth talking about. Katia and Annete are boring, Sylwia doesn't get enough screentime, and Beatrix and Lise are the two worst waifus in Mabu-Rabu. Note, this is just as waifus. A good character does not necessarily equal a good waifu.

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>>14671293
>Beatrix and Lise are the two worst waifus in Mabu-Rabu
>Lise
Bullshit. Thats one of the best waifus and imoutos a man could ask for. I know you're only referring to the anime and don't know a thing or are just refusing to acknowledge anything from the source material but even then that is some straight up shit taste you got there. Loyal till death, can take torture that would break a grown man, smart, talented, everything you could ask for.

Isn't her fault she got Winter Soldier'ed by the Stasi but even that comes with its perks. Get outta here man.

>>14671293
>Beatrix and Lise are the two worst waifus in Mabu-Rabu.
You're right about Beatrix, but Lise is amazing. Blame her bosses, not her.

>>14671339
>>14671351
Hey, I'm just putting out my opinions. I don't think Lise makes any sense at all personally. She comes off as extremely possessive, and not in the good way. She acts like she's doing stuff in Theo's best interest, but is a complete bitch to him and his friends. There's also her smiling in pleasure when getting to see the 666th beat and raped (which goes against her saying that she did all her acts for Theo, it makes it look like she's in it partly because she likes it). Finally, despite all her talk, she tries to kill Theo when he's down, which tells me she wasn't interested in helping him at all. And for what, because she wanted to save Theo from the stasi killing him by, wait for it, killing him? That doesn't make any sense. That's the opposite of loyalty. If the stasi were going to kill him anyways, why not join him, at least then they could die together rather than working towards what she doesn't want.

>>14671339
>can take torture that would break a grown man

And it broke her because her only choice was to keep serving an organisation that destroyed her as a person for the sake of her 'brother'.

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>>14671380
>his friends.
He is just another pawn in the game of power politics.

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>>14671380
See everything you described? Thats the "Winter Soldier" part. And her character was handled extremely poorly in the anime which again is all you described. It was a butchery of an adaption so its no wonder it doesn't make sense to you.

>>14671388
Blackmail and mental conditioning is what broke her.

>>14671380

Well, in fairness, Anime Lise is a completely different character from how she was in the LNs. For example, in those, she genuinely bonded with the 666th and was absolutely terrified at the prospect of them being imprisoned, tortured and worse despite her position. In fact, as I recall, when she tries to torture Pham personally, she can't even bring herself to start and breaks down in tears.

Note that the director outright said that he made the Stasi as evil as he could in order to not offend anybody.

>>14671339
>>14671351
Even putting aside all the Stasi shit, I still don't like her. "Cute" doesn't appeal to me, and even more so the "little sister" bit.

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>>14671442
>"Cute" doesn't appeal to me, and even more so the "little sister" bit.

>>14671442
This. Lise doesn't appeal to me even if her character wasn't a mess. I prefer sexy girls, like Sylwia or Iris. I'd say Beatrix is still slightly worse, even though she does hit many of my fetish fuel buttons. Her whole character is basically smug cunt.

Fucking great. It's a Schwarzesmarken discussion. You fucking cancerous fags need to get out of /m/uv-luv. We don't like you, we don't need you, and we definitely don't want you.

>>14671466
So yeah, about that Gatcha then. When are they going to announce new cards? I'm hoping for some TDA or EF cards next. I like the trilogy girls, but you know what the say, variety is the spice of life (and mobages).

>>14671466
dude mobage lmao

>>14671466
>blaming SMfags
This is the fault of someone stirring up shit with the trilogy girls against the rest. Probably you.

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>>14671442
Like whatever you want man. Cute appeals to me and so does the little sister bit. I'm glad we can come to terms with our differences.

In the spirit of "putting out my opinions" Lise is best SM.

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>>14671466
You don't speak for /m/, love.

>>14671478
I'll take the mobage discussion over this. Actually, wasn't there supposed to be a big announcement soon?

>>14671486
It's probably just the /a/ cancer looking for a new place to shit up since they can't get a thread started on their home board. They always come back here in the end unfortunately.

>>14671523
>I'll take the mobage discussion over this
what mobage discussion? posting about rolls isn't discussion, it's /a/-tier "let me fuck my waifu in the butt" garbage
>Actually, wasn't there supposed to be a big announcement soon?
assuming there are no delays the mobage should come out soon

>>14671533
I've been lurking these threads forever, and the same arguments happen regardless of whether or not there is a thread up on /a/. As moot once said, ignore shit you don't like. Invest 5 minutes into making a world filter.

That's probably what I'm going to do since I'm tired of your cancerous autistic outbursts.

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I like how everyone just agrees that Beatrix is worst girl.

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>>14671568
Or people are just tired of saying the same things to spergs who never stop.

>>14671568
>>14671577
She doesn't exactly acquit herself very well though. Like Lise, her characterization is a mess. She has virtually no positive traits until the final episode where she tries to justify herself. Like Lise though, it doesn't work out because she behaves cruelly and selfishly in the previous 11 episodes, so it just makes it sound like she's lying.

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>>14671568
Hey, it can be debated whether or not Beatrix is worst SM, but touch our Lise and you'll get lit on fire.

>>14671568
Until the original SM and VNs are translated and everyone here can read them to see what these characters are really all about for themselves its just gonna keep on happening.

>>14671648
At least Lise has the brainwash excuse. I thought they made it pretty clear that it wasn't who she really is with the flashbacks to how she was before being kidnapped.

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>>14671339
> Lise
> Thats one of the best waifus and imoutos a man could ask for
this anon. THIS. ANON. KNOWS.
wish her smile never vanished by Stasi ;_;

>>14671442
so what does appeal to you then? just curious.

>>14662926
Reading that stage 1-1 transtalion of Marimo briefing goves makes me wonder couple things.

First is - just what kind of skill and training User and Midori are suposed to get in thier Year 2016 that they can skip all body training and get to be TSF pilots right off the start?

Second- I wonder if User and SF heroines will be only time travelers around. I get felling that writers migh do something similiar to whar was done on Next Anwser and make MC some type of Casuality Conductor that will be atracting all manner of time and space travelers. And this C Battalion can be used as special unit for all soldiers that will be sliders and time travelers. Maybe it will be an in game excuse for why there might be SM or TDA characters fighting along side us.

And yes. I'm making atept to redirect discussion from SM girls i already saw countless times repeating itself in /a/.

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>>14671992
>so what does appeal to you then?
see >>14671277

>>14665286
What TSF Model Kits are better in your opiion non-scale or 1/144? Are there any important differences in details beside size? Witch ones require more work to resemble ones we see in games and anime?

If I had to fill my display shelf with TSFi like them all to be similiar same size. so I'm on the fence witch one to go after. And I'm to poorfag to be able to affort both.

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Welp, I just noticed that I won one of the free copies in the giveaway. Too bad I already have the game on Steam. I'll probably drop it in here so some anon who doesn't have it can take it.

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>>14673671
Well if you're really in the giving mood, I did promise to buy it for an online friends, however I went back on it after I saw the 35$ dollarydoo pricetag

>>14673693
I'm waiting for their reply right now, don't know when I'll be able to post the key. Try being in the thread for the next few hours or so.

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>>14673720
are you the guy from Turkey?
If so he accepted the request and is eagerly awaiting your response

thank you, I'll finally have somebody besides you guys to discuss ML with

>>14675281
Eh no, I'm not from Turkey, I'm from Spaghetti. Still waiting for my key.

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>>14676018
oh, could you link your profile so he knows to accept it?

>>14676577
Is he this guy?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/xarabas

>>14676607
Yea that's him.

>>14676961
Ok, he'll get it when I get it. Also don't worry, he'll know it's me as soon as he sees my profile.

>>14658333
Moeblobs, but not loli.

>>14679425
Share me your wisdom, Fuck father

Strike Frontier fucking when

>>14679827
When I finally roll a S00mika (i.e. never ever).

>>14679425
noice! http://i.imgur.com/94Wjccq.jpg

>>14681068
Wonderful. Too bad everything since TE has been decline.

>>14681077
inb4 2 hours of shitflinging

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I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that my hype for Martyrs disappeared when I found out about Katia's "route". At least there's Eurofront to look forward to, I guess. Do we have any details on that yet?

>>14681353
>I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that my hype for Martyrs disappeared when I found out about Katia's "route".
Why, it's not like there aren't two other routes?

>>14681353
>there's Eurofront to look forward to
What? Did I miss something?

>>14681383
Its been a rumour now for a couple of months, that age's next big project will be something Eurofront related. Apart from a relatively large number of EF goodies, there hasn't been anything official.

>>14681395
Thank got we'll finally be able to move beyond this current shitsmarken slump. I'll really be looking forward to EF. Lovable characters, good story that balances the grimderp with humanism, fun action, and actual cute Germans.

>>14681353
What, are you a Katiafag or something?

>>14681418
If he's disappointed, probably. After all the girl doesn't even win in her own route.

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>new sf 4koma released
>the game is not

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>>14681426
I think they're sticking Katia with the fail route because she's not popular. It gives age an excuse to write another Iris route with all the problems in the true route patched up (which is probably what many Japs want). Iris and Lise will probably end up being the definite routes even if uncanonical.

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>>14681357
I don't really care about the other two as much.

>>14681435
No, Katia was always the main heroine. You don't give the first and last volume covers to a side girl. It's more that it was one of those wacky times where the main heroine isn't the love interest, and honestly, I didn't mind that so much. The real problem is, when the love interest not only wins the MC's heart in the original story, but also gets a route where she's the definitive star, it dulls the original main heroine's impact that much more. Why even have her there?

>>14681476
>No, Katia was always the main heroine.
>the
I'd argue she plays a role in Theo's life, but before it was revealed she was the canon heroine, it was what you'd call a shocker. Since you know, he fell in love and fights for another woman.

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>>14681476
Well, everyone could be wrong. Iris may be the true route, but it's not looking very likely with the way they've framed Katia in the promo material.

>>14681492
> It's more that it was one of those wacky times where the main heroine isn't the love interest

>>14681492
Like I said, it gives Kouki an excuse to shunt the canon story to Katia and rewrite an Iris route.

Is Kouki actually writing the SM visual novels?

>>14681548
He's listed as one of the writers.

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>>14681435
That image is just depressing. I want to protect that smile not blindfold it.

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>>14681687
But blind moe is best moe

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>>14681721

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>>14681687

>>14682201
I don't like Lise (for reasons I've stated before), but I will admit she's got some great boobs.

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>>14682230
She has some good tits, but the titty queen of SM will always be either pic related or Sylwia.

>>14682238
SM in general has a lot of titty monsters. Beatrix, Sylwia, Iris, and Pham can all drown a man, and Lise has a pretty good pair for her size.

>>14682291
And they all end up dead. The more attractive a girl is in SM, the more likely she'll die, painfully and broken. Katia is considered to be the most "average" girl (along with Annete), and barely anything happens to her.

>>14682299
Better to kill them off in their own story, than to let them die offscreen sometime later.

>>14682339
SM deaths kind of rub me raw. I think it's because I can take girls dying to BETA pretty well, it's kind of to be expected, but seeing humans kill one another is more rage inducing for whatever reason (and every single major character kills and is killed by other humans). The way some of the deaths happened were also very contrived and relied on the characters all becoming idiots to happen. Pham and Iris jump out at me in this regard. Others, mostly those done by Theo's hands, feel very unnecessary, such as Lise. I still don't know how to feel about Beatrix. On the one hand, I should hate her and feel elated about it. She happily (if the anime is anything to go off of) killed and terrorized thousands in cold blood and would continue if not stopped, but then I see pictures of a younger, more innocent Beatrix, and I'm caught between two emotional extremes.

In general though, the deaths in SM lack something that the deaths in the original trilogy have. ML deaths were tragic, but you felt like they were for a purpose, that these people gave their lives for something they believed in or loved. Make your deaths count and all. It also helped that ML characters in general were more vibrant and better written then SM characters so it was a punch to the gut and left you sad when they happened. SM deaths tend to be spiteful, nasty, lurid, and pointless, so you're left more with feelings of anger then sadness.

>>14682441
>SM...tends to be... spiteful, nasty, lurid, and pointless
Hey, you've just described shitsmarken perfectly.

>>14682441
I'm not cunning enough of a linguist to express my point very eloquently, but whatever.

> but seeing humans kill one another is more rage inducing for whatever reason
I think that's part of the point. The BETA are still a relatively new threat at this point, and humanity still doesn't have its shit together. Of course lots of stuff seems dumb, because we have the additional context of the future to compare it to. The fact that humans are more concerned with fighting each other than teaming up to fight the aliens is probably supposed to be anger-inducing. The pointless deaths help show how dumb and pointless fighting each other is.

>>14682441
>>14682487
I don't know about you guys, but with how smug and punchable they made the stasi, watching them die was way more satisfying than watching BATERS die for the millionth time. Theo killing Beatrix was as badass as anything in the original Muv-Luv, and it was cathartic just because you could attach a face to the object of hate. Really, the stasi weren't anything more than nazi standins, and it's always fun to watch nazis die. I didn't see that many of the deaths as pointless either. It was more basic good vs evil, heroes and villains shit. Sure, the BETA was bad, but the only way the could fix that problem was to fix the stasi problem right in front of their eyes.

>>14682487
I'm going to get flamed for this but I think the rebels were totally justified and the stasi totally wrong. The stasi were the ones instigating everything, just so they could get more power. It wasn't enough to rip apart the country, all three of the major stasi figureheads turned on each other out of greed, just so they could play king (or queen) in a country that was already on its last legs. Everything the stasi does in SM is for power. It has no interest in helping its people and will eat itself just to rule for one day longer.

>>14682541
>>14682570
Simplistic, unrealistic "good and evil" politics will always be one of the main reasons why SM is shit compared to TE or ML.

>>14682687
>unrealistic "good and evil" politics
I'm sure we all agree the Nazis weren't completely evil, and were a morally-gray faction.

>>14682761
Nazis were bad, but I think it'd be a stretch to say that every single nazi member was a Mengele like SM does with every single one of its stasi. It's usually the ideology that's bad, not necessarily the people. A bad system will find a way to get normally good people to do bad, like Zeon in Gundam. Read some historical accounts and you'll read about even SS getting cold feet or suffering severe depression over all the bad shit they did.

The thing with SM however, is that every single stasi member is portrayed as an irredeemable selfish, egotistic douchebag. None of the stasi are shown to have reservations or feel guilt. They're evil to the bone. Even Lise, the one stasi we're supposed to sympathize with, tortures people with a smile, and in one scene, actually told the mechanics that she'd forced work on her TSF that she'll enjoy torturing them once their use is done. Granted, she was mindbroken into it, but it still doesn't make for a sympathetic character.

Or you could look at Beatrix, who treats her Werewolves like throwaway trash to their faces, and laughs when she hears how one of her squadrons was completely wiped out. That's not just evil, that's stupid. We all know about her giddiness at the prospects of murder and torture too. It's not that they are evil, its they enjoy being evil to an unreasonable extent. Because of this, they aren't really "humans," but more like orcs that look like humans.

SM had the opportunity to show the true monstrosity of the stasi as an organization that facilitates evil, that encourages otherwise neutral people to do bad. An occasional sociopath like Beatrix or Axmann would be realistic in such an organization, but a whole arm of the government being staffed by such people stretches belief. Such an organization would quickly crumble under its own self serving weight long before it could grab power.

>>14682793
Systemic evil versus individual evil?

>>14682761
>>14682793
I was actually talking about politics in the sense that the good guys are motivated by nothing more than there goodness for the most part just like the bad guys were trying to one up each other on how evul they were.

>>14682805
Yeah, there's to much individual evil in SM, especially for something that's using a real world organization as a basis.

>>14682793
It's kind of strange that Axmann ends up being the one who's most relatable. Lise's motivations are too warped (I'll kill Theo because I love him and unless I kill him the stazi will kill him) and Beatrix is basically Krycilla (from Origins mind you).

>>14682793
I'm picking up what you're putting down, but I 'd like to provide a counterpoint: How many Stasi members do we see outside of Beatrix, Lise, Axmann and their immediate and most loyal subordinates? We don't see anyone, so I don't think it's fair to lump everyone together like that. Hans over in Surveillance might feel bad about what he's doing, but we don't get to see that.
Which brings up the issue of why don't we get to see more of that. It's a missed opportunity, like you said.
Not sure where to put this point: I imagine in an organization like the Nazis or the Stasi, if your superiors noticed you having remorse or shit, you'd probably be "taken care of."

Schwarzensmarken is flawed, but I don't think it's necessarily as bad as people say, and I still enjoyed watching it. I hope to be able to play the visual novels someday.

>>14682845
Actually, yeah, your right, some of the nameless stasi characters looked visibly horrified at Lise's behaviors and orders in episode 09. It is funny how people have latched onto Lise and Beatrix though. Lise wasn't evil by choice, so I put her down more as a tragic monster, but Beatrix really is one of the front runners for worst person in age's history. Fun villain though.

>>14682793
>Even Lise, the one stasi we're supposed to sympathize with, tortures people with a smile, and in one scene, actually told the mechanics that she'd forced work on her TSF that she'll enjoy torturing them once their use is done.

Meanwhile
>>14671419
>when she tries to torture Pham personally, she can't even bring herself to start and breaks down in tears.

Why would they change Lise to have her do so many over the top cartoonishly evil things if that didn't happen in the source? Since they apparently waved it off with that one throwaway line about brainwash in the fourth ep. I guess that could free them up to have Lise do all the onscreen bad stuff they need to justify to the audience why the protagonists want to take down the Stasi while still preserving her as the victim her character is. In that way I can see her as sympathetic in that she was a mental puppet by that point, kidnapping underage girls and mentally conditioning them till they're warped beyond all recognition is pretty fucked up.

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>>14682845
>Not sure where to put this point: I imagine in an organization like the Nazis or the Stasi, if your superiors noticed you having remorse or shit, you'd probably be "taken care of."
I could imagine Beatrix having some "fun" with you if she noticed you growing a concience. She looks like someone who wouldn't care if you were one of her "own" or not. God, I can't wait for the VN, I want to kill her so bad for what she's done to Theo, Lise, Iris, and the 666th

Or you could get noticed by Axmann. Don't know which one would be worse really. He'd probably have some other poor sap do it as part of his mental torture. Axmann is all about efficiency after all.

>>14682873
If there were any changes in the anime, they were approved by age.

>>14682880
Wow how irrelevant. The question is why. And the fact that there are changes means not taking everything into account before coming to definitive panning conclusions and judgements is willful ignorance.

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>>14682880
And they shot themselves in the foot by allowing the main villain to be made more evil while publishing her backstory at the same time.

>>14682887
Lots of adaptations have changes from the source material, that's just in their nature. Now whether those changes are for the better or worse is a different debate.

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>>14682887
>>14682895
Since when was there a law saying the anime adaptation must be a 1:1 regurgitation of the source material? The LN differs from the VN differs from the Anime. They tell the story in different ways with different focuses. Anime adaptations are notorious for not including the character's internal monologues or intentions, only portraying the surface expressions, so Lise acting the blood thirsty bitch in the anime doesn't exclude the fact that's she's crying inside.

>>14682904
>>14682906
I didn't say it had to be exactly the same, the point is when there are differences between different versions of the story they should be taken into account before coming to a definitive conclusion. Especially when the differences are as great as a character sporting a slasher grin in one version of a particular scene and crying and being unable to do it in the other version.

>>14682906
>Since when was there a law saying the anime adaptation must be a 1:1 regurgitation of the source material?
That's not the point. Making the most hateable character of one story a Main Character in another is bad for sales. And if the Anime's BD sales are a indication, it went both ways.

Before I continue, I'd like to reiterate that the quality of Muv-Luv, or lack thereof, has no bearing on my assessment of Schwarzesmarken. An anime spinoff should stand on its own merits instead of riding its predecessors momentum. As for the actual plot, Theodor is a pilot with an attitude problem but his skills make him a member of the infamous 666th squadron. Couldn't fucking resist, could you?

I'll be upfront, Schwarzesmarken reeks of misery porn, especially with that habit of using monstrous villains and I don't mean the aliens. It's very much a trait of teen focus media, a fascination with aberrant cruelty and the visceral reaction it incites. On this front, it's actually clever in using the stasi as villains given their historical contribution to the art of oppression and subtle psychological torture. But within Schwarzesmarken, their presence is really just a band aid for what I consider poor writing.

Kill shit at random, cause administrative chaos, posture, nothing you haven't seen before. If you think about the well known, sadistic monsters within anime, you may land on ones like Dio Brando or Kirei Kotomine. Both have traits that make them memorable. The former is at least creative in his methods while the latter spent years struggling with himself before accepting that the only thing that could make him feel is human suffering. The difference isn't in how you could interpret their backstories as sympathetic, it's a matter of presentation and depth. Both of these aspects are absent in Schwarzesmarken's resident monster, Beatrix Brehme, who is a smug, slimy, unlikable, grinning fucker that makes a lot of threats, but there's nothing substantive to separate her from the standard anime villain.

>>14682925
Yeah, the anime pretty much killed BiS sales. They aren't even coming out with a third and fourth compilation book because sales got fucked so bad after the anime.

>>14682960
Hah, just like AkG and how the anime basically killed interest in the manga.

>>14682925
>most hateable
Making the main character of a completed work into a hateable villain of another and expecting people to buy the ongoing work with her is silly, yes.

>>14682990
It's the other way around. She was the hateable villain first who age decided to make into the main heroine of another work.

>>14682868
>It is funny how people have latched onto Lise
Because what she does under the stasi isn't who she really is, because she was brainwashed and driven insane, and because the anime makes up a small part of what her overall character is as a whole.

>>14682998
>hateable
>in LN
If anything, they tried to make the rebels look better than they were in LN by making the government into monsters.

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>>14683020

>>14683021
>the map of the europe that fell to beta soon after rebels ruined the defense line and number of civilian casualties during rushed evacuation

>>14683020
>>14683021
>>14683034
Aren't the rebels still portrayed as a lighter shade of black compared to the stasi in the LN?

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>mfw the thread is discussing SM and it's not the usual shitflinging

>>14683074
It's managed to stay relatively civil somehow. It's pretty nice.

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>>14683091
There's a reason why /m/ has been a haven for Muv-Luv threads over the years. Proud of you chumps.

Cant you SM autists stay in /a/ thread or did that get deleted again

>>14683243
So... Why DON'T they just negotiate peace with the Beta?

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>>14683301
...Would you negotiate peace with a tacos? Or just nom it?

>>14683301
Well, they tried, and failed. That's what Alternative Plans were for.

>>14683301
BETA have no concept of peace. They are organic machines that have specific purpose and quota to fill.

They just follow their programing. And of course part of it is that they don't consider carbon deposits to be a life forms. At best they consider humans to be similar construct as them. Organic machines that harvest planet for resources.

From BETA pov humanity is just inconvenient and aggressive competition in their mining operation.

>>14682793
This is the fault of Watanabe. He decided to not paint the stasi as morally grey as to not offend victims of the regime.

>>14683368
>victims of the regime.
Or just paint soviets evil, like in every other muv luv.

>>14683410
No, the dude didn't even think the Stasi were real.

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>>14682835
If you relate to Axmann I have some had news for you. I know you know what he really is, and I know you know what he did to Lise and many others like her. Just because certain key bits of information are left out of the anime doesn't mean it isn't a part of him and what his character truly is. The anime is far from being the end all be all to what any of this is. Its like you take pride in promoting a viewpoint based on ignorance and shallow thinking, but when you have to deny the bigger picture to preserve the way you want to see things then you're just wrong, and you've always been wrong. Plain and simple.

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A new 4koma of Frontier.

Now wait and hope for good will of Anon to translate it.

>>14683286
This. SM ended like half a year ago. Why talk about it, it's old news by this point. SM isn't even particularly good.

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>Finally a SR

>>14683847
This. The trilogy ended ten years ago. Why talk about it, it's old news by this point. The Gacha is much better.

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>>14671120
shouldn't have watched this damn it.

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>>14671120

>>14683867
Just because trilogy had ended Franchise is still alive. There are still, mangas. Ligh Novels, Model Kits, Figures , Animes and so on.
And with releases of SM, Steam version of ML trilogy and Strike Frontier it means we will have more new people that becomes fans of it and are just getting into that franchise and want to discuss about it.

Duty of veterans is to guide those young souls.

>>14683936
>And with releases of SM, Steam version of ML trilogy and Strike Frontier it means we will have more new people that becomes fans of it and are just getting into that franchise and want to discuss about it.
These threads maintain the same amount of unique IP's so as far as that line of arguing goes, I doubt it.

These threads crawl at a snails pace until SM is mentioned, where a shot of adrenaline comes. For all the whining from the vocal minority, it seems ironic that things end like that.

>>14682873
I don't get why people were so angry at Lise. If anything, that just made me hate Beatrix and Heinze even more. Isn't it odd though. Even with the fall of the Oder Neisse, removing those two smirking bastards still feels like a net gain.

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>>14684205
>I don't get why people were so angry at Lise. If anything, that just made me hate Beatrix

>>14683368
That's just stupid. I think that you guys are just reading too much into his interview. He said that he must be careful in the way he presented the stasi, not that he changed them. Further more, he implies that the stasi were even more chaotically evil in the LN. The stasi have always come off as a less charming and more stupid version of the Titans anyways.

>>14684214
>That's just stupid.
My thoughts exactly.
>I think that you guys are just reading too much into his interview
>Watanabe: This is historical fiction, so for places like the Soviet Union and West and East Germany, we based them off their real-life counterparts to a certain extent. It was a very challenging project. There were areas where we wondered if it was OK to do this. After getting involved in this project, I learned that the Stasi (East German secret police) that appears in the story was a real organization. They did some truly terrible things. There are people who really did suffer. When I thought about that, I was very concerned about how far we should go to portray this.
There's reading too much, and then there is ignoring what's in between the lines. He then goes on to say
>I felt I wanted to retain the novel’s image. There’s a very suppressed feel to it, so for the anime I also wanted to keep things not too flashy, but not too plain. Also, since the story is set in East Germany, the show will inevitably have an oppressive image about it. People in my generation have that sense of what is beyond the Iron Curtain. As much as possible, I tried to avoid making the show too heavy.

If you still believe he didn't put a narrative in play, him saying in the same interview that Irisdina is the main heroine in the anime should at the very least tell you he doesn't know what he's doing.

>>14683613
If you just go off of the anime, he does come of as more human. Selfishness is a human quality after all. Furthermore, almost all his on screen kills is in self defense when he's pushed up against the wall. He doesn't torture anyone like Beatrix or Lise does, and the people he interrogates at least come out alive (unlike Beatrix and Schmidt, who kill their prisoners). He's also capable of emoting to a degree, unlike Beatrix or Schmidt who remain smug and punchable throughout the whole anime. When he suffers setbacks, he's genuinely shocked or in fear, versus Beatrix who just smirks imagining all the death. That's another thing, he doesn't seem to hate his subordinates and actually has a good relationship with at least one of them, unlike the other stasi who abuse the people under them. He never comes off as just doing things for the evulz (excepting a throwaway line from Lise). Hell, Theo doesn't even seem that pissed at him after what Lise told him.

Again, this is just going off of the anime. There is a reason why he's the most liked stasi member (excepting Lise) among anime watchers.

>>14684227
>As much as possible, I tried to avoid making the show too heavy.
I don't get this. Does it mean that the LN was too heavy and so he tried to lighten things up, or that he took the anime in a heavier direction, but had to pull back to keep it from becoming too heavy.

>>14684264
>I don't get this. Does it mean that the LN was too heavy and so he tried to lighten things up, or that he took the anime in a heavier direction, but had to pull back to keep it from becoming too heavy.
The LN had time to explain how dark the pasts of all the sinners are. It's a lot easier to make something less heavy when you can make it good guys vs bad guys.

>>14684266
I don't like bringing his name into this, but doesn't the guy you're pulling this interview from say that SM divides its cast clearly into "good guys and bad guys"?

There's also what TE Spoiler Guy said about SM having an "edgy" and unrealistic cast, which kind of supports the whole "grey vs blacker than the blackest black times infinity" stuff.

>>14684272
>I don't like bringing his name into this, but doesn't the guy you're pulling this interview from say that SM divides its cast clearly into "good guys and bad guys"?
Type 94 is a tard who doesn't understand that wartime is morally ambiguous and that truth is always the first casualty. I only use this interview because it's not him talking, it's Watanabe.
>There's also what TE Spoiler Guy said about SM having an "edgy"
Edgy is a buzzword, so I'd dismiss his argument right there.
>and unrealistic cast
There is nothing really unrealistic about it, and if you want to go that route the US wouldn't have bombed Berlin (a city with 0 strategic value) or accepted anything but unconditional surrender from Japan in WW2.

Even in democratic nations, people have their rights waived away and are imprisoned unlawfully. NDAA comes to mind most recently, under the Democrats.
>which kind of supports the whole "grey vs blacker than the blackest black times infinity" stuff.
Can you expand on this? From what I see people are really trying to push the white vs black mentality when it's grey vs grey with black streaks in both.

>>14684279
And to add, the author himself said that Beatrix isn't particularly wrong, even if his wording is a tad vague as to not take sides.

Source: https://twitter.com/uchidahiroki/status/715940630501859329 Reposting since I mixed up my factions.

>>14684285
His wording is vague just because he doesn't want to spoil BiS. I have a feeling that he wanted to say a lot more on Beatrix like he did with Katia, but couldn't because of the prequel.

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>>14684356
Well BiS is going off hiatus so we'll find out soon enough.

>>14684365
Not until it gets translated.

>>14684411
Good luck with that. In the meantime I'm sure the beans will be spilled regardless.

>>14684264
Its funny that it turned out that way when he's really the most inhuman member of the cast, the common anime watcher viewpoint tends to drastically change the deeper they dig and the more information they learn. Because of that going just off the anime is somewhat pointless because its one corner of a larger picture, its intentionally narrowing down the amount of evidence one has to base their opinion on when there is much more to it than just what can be found there.

So you could say that he comes across as more human but thats only a perception, and a false one at that. Overall the fact that he doesn't come across as being as evil as he is in one rendition of the story due to much of his actions and behaivor being excluded doesn't mean that stuff didn't still happen especially when it isn't directly contradicted but merely left out, all it takes is knowing the truth or not.

Its somewhat fitting of Axmann's character that only knowing the least involved and most limited portrayal of him would lead some people to believe he's not so bad given that he's a manipulative psychopath at heart. He even fools unwary members of the audience.

>>14684460
>directly contradicted but merely left out
They completely changed his last scenes with Gretel and Iris. In the LN, he shot them purely out of spite, gloating all the while, whereas in the anime, one of his men shoots Gretel with his dying strength, and he shoots Iris mostly out of self defense/desperation. Very different interpretations of the same scenes.

>>14684205
She killed pham and was a hipocrital bitch in the end,how do you claim you love your onichan but whore yourself to other men in the end.

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>>14684478
>bringing up pham
>bashing other girls in the same post

>>14684264
Also as for Theo not seeming to be that pissed at him after episode 9 Lise didn't mention torture, gang-rape, mental conditioning and many of the other stuff she went through in Requiem. That and Theo was somewhat occupied from that point on so he couldn't go AWOL to track the guy down, and by the time he would have the chance Axmann was already dead.

>>14684477
They were also defenseless. Gretel did not have a gun and Iris was too wounded to really fight him. Way different from the anime which decided to spice things up with a fight.

>>14684478
>shitposting this hard
Fuck off idiot. You're so off base its not even funny at this point.

>>14684483
Just giving a reasonable answer for hating lise

>>14684490
>anime is an extreme Theo's viewpoint
>He heard Iris and Gretel clashed with Axmann
>the anime is what we get
Woah... so this is the power of 1st person narration...

>>14684499
You're being intentionally disingenuous nothing more.

>>14684502
Plausible. If he didn't know who she was in life, who says he knows how she died?

>>14684502
SM is told mostly in limited third person, kind of like Game of Thrones. It also likes to inject a character's thoughts directly into the narration, so you end up with a different feel depending on who the viewpoint character is. Lise sections read very different from Theo or Katia sections for instances. SM is also not afraid to purposely mislead or contradict itself, leading to more confusion.

It does change things up occasionally. Lise's Requiem, for instances, is told purely from a first person view point. BiS is from a first person perspective too.

>>14684502
So much was nonsensical, full of plot holes and gaps in logic, and in the case of the ending, hypocritical, that it makes the most sense to say the anime was just Theo's take on things.

>>14684511
>>14684497
You can prove me wrong then

>>14684477
Some of it was contradicted, but not everything about him and what he had done made into the anime. The gaps can be filled with what we do know of him based on the other material.

>>14684557
there's no need to, you discredited yourself in your opening statement when you named Pham

>>14684530
They couldn't even keep it consistent either. I'd at least give SM a pass if they'd just kept things consistent.

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>>14684530
>>14684566
When the truth becomes undeniable, you create your own.

>>14684563
Actually, Axmann was one of the few consistent and believable characters in the anime.

>>14684557
You've already intentionally skewed or ignored everything in the material that explains why your position is pants on head retarded to get where you are now. I'm not here to cater to a brainless moron.

>>14684581
Its not as if he isn't believable or consistent, he's based off a real life person after all. That doesn't change the fact that some major aspects of his character are left out or changed in the anime which ultimately leaves quite a different impression.

>>14684614
Yeah, I actually don't mind some of the changes that much. I know adaptions can't have everything, so I know they'll have to change shit and am willing to accept said changes. What I don't like, is when they adapt things willy nilly. Traits that make sense in tandem with others are absurd by themselves. Worst is when you make purposeful changes that contradict canon traits without changing said traits. Beatrix's selfless devotion to humanity and Jurgen is a complete non-sequitur when you take into account her behavior before hand for instances. There is nothing to establish this, no real hints for the majority of the anime, and her whole character is built up as one who is most definitely not selfless. This is one of the reasons why it was easy for so many anime watchers to dismiss her motivation spiel. In a way, Beatrix would have been a stronger character had they followed through and just made her a crazed sadist instead of muddling her character.

So for all the cuts that Axmann suffered, he's probably one of Schwarzesmarken's strongest characters and definitely the best antagonist in the anime.

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>>14684653
Good news is he's about to suffer another major cut.

>>14684692
did he died

>>14684692
Benetration CGs when?

>>14684285
It just seems so stupid to change this. It hurts the overall story so much when you can't understand the badguy's PoV.

>>14684692
I wonder if there'll be an "Ally with Axmann" ending to pander to the fujos.

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>>14685904
No.

>>14685919
Woah, what's with that stone cold shutdown?

>>14685904
It's sadly more likely than an ally with Beatrix route.

>>14685962
You already get that with the Lise route, don't you?

>>14685975
Still an uncertainty. Lise could join up with Theo, not the other way around.

>>14685984
As much as I would personally prefer that to happen, they've already hammered in that Lise cares about Beatrix more than Theo enough that him joining her is what I expect.

>>14685993
Not necessarily. It could be Theo pushing her away in favor of Iris that galvanized her. If Theo only shows interest in her, she may decide to stick by him rather than running back to the stasi she hates so much.

>>14685993
>they've already hammered in that Lise cares about Beatrix more than Theo
Since when?

>>14686123
Try reading her Requiem, for starters.

>>14685993
One of Lise's plot points is her being torn in her loyalty to Beatrix and love for Theo.

>>14686791
Yes, but as we know, she ends up siding with Beatrix.

>>14687071
Yeah, Theo didn't really pay her enough attention for her to lean on his side when the call to duty arrived.

She betrayed Beatrix in her final moments, however.

>>14687074
No? She helped Beatrix to the very end and lead the rebels into a trap.

>>14687076
She didn't know the information given to her was false. Giving it was still betraying Beatrix, anon.

>>14686791
Beatrix was responsible for why Lise was so messed up. She probably wanted Beatrix dead as much as she wanted Axmann's head. She did ultimately betray Beatrix as >>14687074 pointed out, so she obviously wanted Theo to kill Beatrix with her final breath.

>>14683728
Welp I'm late

Play with me, papa

Wow, so we're gonna be military too?
Real survival games are go!

Oh? Anti-personnel practice? Why not?

Oh!?

(To think that Sakaki-sense- I mean, sennin gave her okay)

Alright, everyone, let's give our all!!

(These people are hardcore)

Oh, done already?

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>>14687294
>Beatrix was responsible for why Lise was so messed up
Sure, if you missed the part where Axmann had killed her parents, had her raped, beaten, tortured, raped again, blackmailed/mindbroken into his personal dog, and then made to do morally reprehensible things for him. Weird how that treatment ended when Beatrix put her under the Werewolves' wing.

But yup, ignoring all that, Beatrix is responsible.

>>14687308
I meant to say partly responsible. You have to admit from what we saw of her that she treated Lise like shit, and even seemed to relish the idea of breaking her further.

>>14687310
Sure. I'll admit it. I won't respect that storytelling however.

Ignoring the LN, which shows Beatrix treating her subordinates the same if not better as Irisdina does, it still doesn't make any sense even not knowing the LN. You can claim Beatrix is a sociopath, whatever. But one of the most elite units having cohesion that bad is literally impossible. It's just not a work ethic that is promoted or even possible. It's what is known as unrealistic. Shitbag officers like that would be in a shallow grave, so what I want to know is why Watanabe, who claimed to have read the source, thought changing Beatrix's characteristics and interactions to that point was a good idea.

It defies logic.

>>14687319
>But one of the most elite units having cohesion that bad is literally impossible.
Were they though? The Werewolves were shown to inept, unable to work together, and hate/distrust one another throughout the anime. It's one of the reasons why the 666th so easily took them down. If anything, it was always their reputation that propped them up, and when their martial prowess was put to the test, they were shown to be nothing more than phonies or bullies, which makes sense for a secret police paramilitary organization like the stasi. I mean, you couldn't expect the FBI to be able to take on the Marine Corp, could you, even if they had superior weaponry?

To sum it all up, the Werewolves bark was worse than their bite.

>>14687303
I say you are actually way ahead Anon. Couple of those 4 koma's haven't been publicized on SF page yet. Only on artist twitter.

>>14687329
>Were they though? The Werewolves were shown to inept, unable to work together, and hate/distrust one another throughout the anime.
And in the LN/VN they are shown to be quite the opposite. Eliminating all the Stasi's "good" traits only make's the story require more suspension of disbelief and damages the story. If the Stasi are all bark and no bite, utterly incompetent and fighting amongst themselves for a few scraps of power, how is it that it took five years for someone to grow the balls to fight back? And to add insult to injury, its a idealistic 15 year old girl what motivates them do it.

>>14687329
>Were they though? The Werewolves were shown to inept, unable to work together, and hate/distrust one another throughout the anime.
And that shit didn't exist in the LN. They were loyal to Beatrix and they fought for her.
>It's one of the reasons why the 666th so easily took them down.
The main reason the 666th defeated the Werewolves was that most of them were supporting the collapsing front line. Beatrix herself was only defeated after fighting the rebels for hours and several 666th pilots.
>If anything, it was always their reputation that propped them up,
Every story has a kernel of truth. Schmidt is scared of charismatic, intelligent people like Beatrix so he sent her on suicide missions. When she came back after each one, it tells the reader that she has an adept understanding on tactical situations and has an answer for most things that happen on the battlefield.
>and when their martial prowess was put to the test, they were shown to be nothing more than phonies or bullies, which makes sense for a secret police paramilitary organization like the stasi.
But the Werewolves are not a standard secret police paramilitary organization. They are second only the 666th in skill and experience. Beatrix was one of the top ten Warsaw pact pilots alive.
>I mean, you couldn't expect the FBI to be able to take on the Marine Corp, could you, even if they had superior weaponry?
The FBI and Marine Corp have very different doctrines and fighting tactics. The Werewolves have more TSF fighting experience, while the 666th are masters of anti-BETA operations.

>>14687338
Yeah, DMM is doing one per week

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Was it posted?

>>14687378
Yes.

>>14687350
>They were loyal to Beatrix and they fought for her.
Out of fear, or genuine loyalty?
>most of them were supporting the collapsing front line
Do we know that. Again, the anime contradicted that by showing the Werewolves abandoning the line. In fact, the NVA seemed resentful about Beatrix's "help" since she was unreliable, didn't pull her weight, and was probably a jerk to them.
>Schmidt is scared of charismatic, intelligent people like Beatrix so he sent her on suicide missions.
Why did he make her his successor then?
>Beatrix was one of the top ten Warsaw pact pilots alive.
I'm not disputing this, but it doesn't mean the rest of the Werewolves were that much. Almost every fight they were in was extremely lopsided.
>The Werewolves have more TSF fighting experience
Shooting at state enemies, refugees, and fleeing TSFs is not the same as fighting.

>>14687430
>Out of fear, or genuine loyalty?
These girls are like Lise, stuck with shitty bosses who probably use you as a personal fucktoy. Beatrix told them "Either stay with them and stay miserable or fight for me."
>Do we know that. Again, the anime contradicted that by showing the Werewolves abandoning the line. In fact, the NVA seemed resentful about Beatrix's "help" since she was unreliable, didn't pull her weight, and was probably a jerk to them.
"We" do. If there was any political dickswinging it would have been ignored since the line was collapsing. It also doesn't help when moderate rebels are shooting at that help.
>Why did he make her his successor then?
Who knows? The anime claimed he was a KGB mole which would make sense if the SM's Stasi was cutting back on the whole repressive leftwing death squad shit and the SED grew more influential but that's not what happened. Beatrix hates the DDR as a whole, especially ignorant masses like Berliners who prefer the bread and circuses charade.
>I'm not disputing this, but it doesn't mean the rest of the Werewolves were that much. Almost every fight they were in was extremely lopsided.
The Werewolves are inferior to the 666th. Their mission was also not really "shoot at rebels".
>Shooting at state enemies, refugees, and fleeing TSFs is not the same as fighting.
The Werewolves, aside from the aforementioned suicide missions, are trained and have experience in dealing with rogue TSF pilots. These guys can fight back, and unless there is something that says every pilot they hunted was unarmed, you can assume it was fighting.

>>14687430
>“We will be participate in the forthcoming operation against the BETA,” Beatrix said with a dignified expression, in a briefing room with a somewhat over-efficient heater. Before her, were the members of the ‘Werwolf’ battalion. All 50 of the members, and their equipment, were accounted for and in perfect condition, ready for immediate action.
>Most of the men had been scouted from the NVA, and retrained in the Armed Security Force training center.
>There was no political officer assigned to them. Only Pilots that had impeccable political loyalty to the Stasi were assigned to the battalion, so such a role was unnecessary in the first place. Each Pilot was their own political officer. Thus, in their chain of command, Beatrix stood as the sole
commander of the whole battalion.

And it goes on, to where it describes the units relationship to Beatrix.

>“This will be the first time our battalion will be engaging the BETA. However, I am not worried; you are all able Pilots who have fought against the BETA before.”
>Pausing a moment, Beatrix sweep her gaze across the men, looking them in the eyes. “But still, you are not to get overconfident. Those aliens do not behave like humans. Do not over rely on the capabilities of the MiG-23. With that in mind, we shall charge into battle with the faith that certain victory is ours — is that clear!?”
>An overlapping round of acknowledgment echoed through the room. The hard eyes of the Pilots had no hesitation, showing their determination. All of them had sworn absolute loyalty to the commander of the battalion, Beatrix. To this chosen force that was tasked with clandestine operations, Beatrix, who dirtied her hands right alongside them, had been firmly accepted as a compatriot.

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>>14687457
>"We" do. If there was any political dickswinging it would have been ignored since the line was collapsing. It also doesn't help when moderate rebels are shooting at that help.

They always made sure to the NVA's general complaining or being unhappy about Beatrix and the Werewolves.

>>14687557
Generals are basically just politicians so she's probably worried about the power politics at play.

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>>14687557
that old hag got more screen time than best girl and theo

and you fags still eat this shit up

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>>14687611
And she survived when so many other semen demons didn't.

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>>14687308
Man fuck that guy. Giving Lise a route is the least they could do for how morbidly depressing they made her whole story. I hope she gets some proper revenge against Ketchup or at least closure over the whole ordeal.

>>14687557
>Merkel didn't personally welcome the BETA in
What the heck happened?

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>It's one of the reasons why the 666th so easily took them down.

It's the only reason why the 666th annihilated them every time they had a square fight in the anime, because as aforementioned, Watanabe was committed to portraying the Stasi as a gaggle of inept cretins fueled by hate and constantly at each other's throats.

It's not only Lise who underwent radical alterations to free viewers from the burden of having to think and weigh morality, or Beatrix - even lesser characters get it. For example, this character, who dies like a chump in the only fight she features in, fights Theo, Annette and Gretel by herself in the LN, and instead of spending her time pleading for Lise's help she's only taken out because of a distraction.

>>14687708
Yeah, and killing her fucked up Annete, but Nicola isn't Farka. Farka was Lise's subordinate, Nicola is not.

>>14687724

So?

If anything that just makes the creative team lazier.

>So this character is meant to be competent, but we must follow Watanabe-san's directives.
>Okay, let's off-handedly rename her so she's totally different despite serving the exact same role with the only difference being that she's Beatrix's lieutenant.
>Sure, just roll with it, they won't notice.

>>14687739
Bro, it's Linden. Not exactly the face of competent anime.

>>14687742

Linden are the people who animated it, not the guys who wrote it.

That every change also apparently got greenlit by age themselves is even more mind-boggling.

>>14687747
>That every change also apparently got greenlit by age themselves is even more mind-boggling.
Source? I was under the impression the director is the one who decided shit, which is why TE had two directors as one was a tard.

>>14687750

Well, admittedly that's a little bit of hearsay, but I kept seeing claims that Kouki himself was attached to the project in one way or another, and every deviation from the novel was passed to him and subsequently approved.

>>14687772
Kouki is probably the fact checker. Hiroki wrote the novels and it seems like Watanabe wanted to depict a heroic documentary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, Hiroki said sounds good boys and that's what happened. Unless someone posts something saying everything was overseen by Cookie.

it doesn't need to be overseen by anybody

the anime is advertisement material for the vn, it was never meant to be a faithful adaptation

>>14687789
Yeah, and how did that turn out? BiS sales crashed after the anime.

>>14687794
i keep seeing that talk point but i never see any sales figures

>>14687794
>>14687797
It didn't sell poorly, just not as well. It's because it came out a couple of years after SM and interest had already waned. It also focuses favors Beatrix heavily over Irisdina, which is off putting for Japanese Irisfags (which is the largest SM fanbase) so many just don't read it. The ones who stick to it seem to swap over to Beatrix.

>>14687794
>Watanabe killed BiS
T-thanks Watanabe

>>14687812
It will still finish its run on Tech Gian and depending on age's mood it will be left to be forgotten or they'll try to salvage what they can from it.

>>14687818
No new tankōbons planned though.

>>14687847
That's what I meant with age's mood.

>>14687818
>tfw broke
Man, in order to like this shit you need disposable income available all the time. I won't have money for a few months and I want to buy all this stuff.

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>>14687557
>>14687584
Yeah, the NVA seemed outright angry whenever Beatrix showed up, rather than relieved for the reinforcements. How dare these stasi bitches help us?

So I'm curious, how does one get into Muv Luv?

>>14689367
Ignore any and all side materials until you read the main trilogy of visual novels. After that, it's up to you.

>>14689378
This, TE and especially SM are shit and will ruin ML for you.

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>>14689389
I wouldn't call them shit (at least not Total Eclipse, anyway), but they're definitely not the best introductions to the franchise, since they spoil part of the plot twist (that everybody knows at this point). Those adaptations aren't the greatest though.

>>14689405
Total Eclipse took too long to really pick up and its characters weren't very compelling, and SM is flat out retarded.

>>14689426
I liked a lot of the characters in TE, so I guess that made it more tolerable for me.

>>14684272
>TE said hurrrr

Are you /a/ shitposters STILL parroting this? he already said that he never said that and hasn't even read/watch SM.

>>14690051
>If someone doesn't agree with me they're a shitposter

This is the mentality that is killing this board.

>>14689426
SM was always been plot driven rather than character driven. It moves at the pace of a thriller, so it doesn't need to have a strong cast. Saying that, I think SM is pretty terrible in general and am looking forward to when age finally drops it like the hot trash it is.

>>14690051
TE said that he won't read or watch it because it's edge shit, and after watching the anime, I agree with him.

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>>14691193
>SM was always been plot driven rather than character driven.
>>14691199

>>14691199
He said it was grimderp which is an entirely different thing.

>>14691223
SM is both edgy and grimderp, so I agree. I mean, how couldn't you laugh at Iris's contrived death, the Viet's stupidity that lead to her death, or the stasi cunt smiling at all her soldiers dying.

>>14691223
Just ignore him. He cherrypicks what counts as side material and then goes on to post his unremitting opinions on SM that are usually incorrect or fueled from years old information that has been out-of-date since the time it was put out.

The best part is he doesn't even post any discussion for the trilogy, which is what he claimed is the only thing worth discussing.

http://pastebin.com/9y5eQ8pn

>>14691240
How do you know I'm not? I fucked off for a few days when I saw all the SM shit because I was tired of calling its shit out, and come back to see it was still being discussed and had bumped this thread to the 404 limit. Besides, you're the ones who decided to make an official anime noncanonical, despite that both Kouki and the author backed its interpretation.

>>14691279
>I fucked off for a few days when I saw all the SM shit because I was tired of calling its shit out
Right, sorry you can't have a hugbox. This is /m/, where posts like yours are called "shitposts" because that's what they are. You aren't calling anything out, you're making these threads insufferable since there are around 50 people other than you who are not autistic and can hold a discussion without "callin its shit out"
>and come back to see it was still being discussed and had bumped this thread to the 404 limit.
People tend to talk about what's new. This happens to more series than Muv Luv and you should not be upset or surprised by this.
>Besides, you're the ones who decided to make an official anime noncanonical
There's a broad statement. There is a large difference between dismissing the anime for it's shameful adaptation and calling it noncanon. Are you absolutely certain you aren't talking about people discussing the specific routes being non-canon?
>despite that both Kouki and the author backed its interpretation.
They didn't back any interpretations, they said that the anime and LN are Katia's route. This is usually where the discrepancy is, as the LN and anime are completely different, with the only similarity being that events happen around the same time. When people see 2 medium's, with one being very different from the other yet still the same "route", they think "What the fuck?".

I'm just wondering if typing all this was worth it or not, considering how I'll probably see you in the next thread posting the same unrelenting garbage.

>>14691304
Theres really no helping him at this point, he won't listen to reason.

>>14691279
Isn't the anime noncanonical by virtue of the visual novel(s) anyway?

>>14691279
Uh, the author has contradicted the anime in a roundabout way on his twitter. See his analysis on any of the characters, especially Beatrix and Katia.

>>14691317
The anime depicts Katia's route, which is what's canon. The VN will have roughly the same thing as the LN I'd say, with Irisdina and Lise being the other two main girl endings.

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>>14691319
The VN looks to be really different than the anime already. Just look at Iris coldy executing Theo.

>>14691326
I wouldn't count bad ends as really different. Otherwise Gretel would be Hitler 2.0 since almost every bad end in the first VN is from her.

>>14691319
Yeah, but I'm saying that the visual novels (at least with Muv-Luv) are usually the most expansive and complete experiences, so those should be taken as the "canon" version of events.

>>14691330
Yeah, but bad ends can reveal certain facets of a character's personality, sometimes far more than anything else. For instances, look at what the kill Katia choice reveals about Theo, then compare it to the anime where that thought didn't even cross his mind. You can't imagine anime Iris or Gretel executing anyone either, for instances.

>>14691406
I agree with your post, but the main problem is that the focus wasn't on character personalities. You don't need to know moon to understand the conversations between Iris and Theo are much much longer in the VN than the anime, for example.

>>14691406
>compare it to the anime where that thought didn't even cross his mind
Uhm, I'm pretty sure it did.

>>14691419
No, it didn't. I just watched the scene, he opens Katia's cockpit, says "Lise", flashbacks start, and he teleports from the battlefield back into base, where we then see Katia wake up.