CFW Brave DID NOTHING WRONG

His base reasoning was flawed. Poor children that can't afford games do not make up any kind of respectable part of the piracy demographic, which is like 90% fifteen to thirty-five nerds.
Besides, when you live in a world that literally turns into a nightmarish wasteland when people pirate games there is NO good argument in favor of it.

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>>14631059
Agreed. The reason indie games are a thing is because people will give what money they can to support things they like, so if anything, we should focus on educating kids to give fair when receving a product they appreciate. You'll only bottleneck creativity and curb education if laws focus too much on combating piracy!

CFW Brave's crime was his naiivette.

People will make any number of excuses for piracy, and the "I can't afford it" excuse is one of the weaker ones. This is because it ignores one big important thing:

Video games are a luxury item.

You won't die if you can't get the latest greatest game, and trying to pretend that's the case is utterly baffling. Not to mention that there are a multitude of free and very cheap games easily available, especially if you have a smart phone. If a person's taste is too dainty and specific for cheaper offerings, then it's a personal problem.

>>14631132

There's a difference between "I can't afford it" and "I'm a child and my parents can't afford it"

>>14631132
More than the luxury of videogames, it's premised on the idea that the time and money spent on development is irrelevant to the end user's pursuit of fun, that monetary compensation is ultimately a charity, not an equivalent exchange.

>>14631140

I still would not say that excuses it. It may motivate them to do so, but if the kid is savvy enough to pirate, and has regular access to a computer, then that also means they can be savvy enough to access cheaper/free alternatives. If they feel entitled to the best games, or feel that it's their right to only buy games they like and pirate the rest, then I'd say the criticism still stands.

>>14631132
>>14631161

What about people who don't care and just want to steal because they can?

>>14631166

The word 'theif' is appropriate there.

The issue comes when pirates try to redefine words and twist logic till it breaks in order to avoid being called that. The biggest problem I have with the 'piracy' debate is that it comes down to a simple concept: taking things that don't belong to you, and explicitly belong to someone else, is considered wrong. This simple concept is readily thrown to the wind in these debates, and so many people fall for the pro-pirate anti-logic that it's painful to read.

The thing about it is that I'm way more understanding in the case of abandonware, stuff that exists but its company is long dead or forgot it exists. These things ate not available, and the only way to preserve it is to put it up and share it. But this does not apply when we're talking about the big hyped up "Game of the Year" game that people rip and put up for torrent on day one.

Neptunia in SRW when

>>14631066
Money for the older demographics helps, because it can improve accessibility to a product. That accessibility in certain areas can be a problem, and people can get it in their head that they don't ever have to pay for these things from resorting to piracy for years. Often the best methods of fighting piracy have been to increase accessibility in line with advances in tech and new tech being introduced, which the music industry failed to do. The result was Napster, losses, and a failed anti-piracy campaigns along with other industries who probably still see the shutdown of Megaupload as a triumph as opposed to an embarrassment that did nothing but create traffic for established and create new internet locker sites.

>>14631201
Pirating AAA games is sticking it to the man. In their mind, anyway. It's just excuses to avoid thinking that they're, well, actually stealing stuff.
Doesn't help that those excuses end up starting vicious circles. Dudes pirate games, companies have to cut corners because of diminishing revenue, dudes pirate harder because "they're lazy and I'm not giving them my money", etc (though it's probably less of a factor than mobile gaming/microtransactions being way more successful than "regular" games could ever hope to be at this point)

>>14631335

Yes, mobile games are a pretty good example of the opposite excess. I tend to aim mostly for smaller, single dev efforts because so many common mobile trends just feel like scams.

It's sad since there are a bunch of games that I like on mobile, and I would not discount the entire ecosystem because of them. But I can totally understand people rolling their eyes at it when the most popular mobile games are stuff that will happily nicle and dime you every step of the way.

>>14631335
doesn't really hold up, pretty much no game has ever been pirated enough to truly impact sales

>>14631246

It would be a dirt cheap license to acquire for use

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Am I the only one who thought 00 Qan[t]? Steamax and Affimojas were pretty cool.

>>14631246
We had Genera show up in the Noire game so all we need is SRW-chan to show up in a game then we reverse-import the character with the Neptunia series for an SRW

>>14631059
Does Neptune have a decent number of bosses like this? I tried playing the first one for a few hours and I was just fighting screens from dating games, and otakus.

>>14631201
>The biggest problem I have with the 'piracy' debate is that it comes down to a simple concept: taking things that don't belong to you, and explicitly belong to someone else
But they technically don't belong to anyone it's not like stealing a car, the program is still there.

>>14632722
The real argument is the concept of a "lost sale", the assumption that if somebody pirating it results in a lost sale.

That's where things get more nebulous because while lots of people would never have paid for the game, you also can't argue that a lot of people would have bought it if they decide they really wanted it and do have the money for it.

>>14632722

>But they technically don't belong to anyone it's not like stealing a car, the program is still there.

How does a software made by a company not belong to that company? Even open source code has to acknowledge some level of ownership, so how much more does proprietary software?

Assuming that the company puts the software up for sale, it still remains that the pirate has had no hand in the creation of the product, nor has even paid money to own a copy of the software. So where in this scenario do they have the right to own it?

>>14632769
Copying software is like copying an idea.

If you see someone crack a coconut on TV and do it yourself, the anti-piracy argument is that you're a thief and a degenerate because ideas can and should be owned.

Basically, copyright is just a pretty way of saying "thought policing" because nothing tangible has been lost or stolen.

This is where Brave comes in.

Except because the Neptune games are literally propaganda for the game industry, his motivation is bastardized into a strawman argument for the "heroes" to challenge.

If it wasn't for being a strawman, the best argument he could make is that "lost sales" aren't a discernible quantity given that no sale is guaranteed, and that the entire fight against piracy is based on nothing more than projection, presumption and wishful thinking.

In other words, the "heroes" are completely full of shit and they're just blaming piracy for their problems, even though it's really their lack of innovation and engagement with the citizens of Gamindustri that servrs as the real cause for their dearth of shares.

But since game companies see themselves as good boys who dindu nuffin, every pro-piracy villain is dooned to parrot off asinine crap so that the heroes never truly have their beliefs or behaviors threatened.

tl;dr Brave was right for the wrong reasons and those reasons were put in his mouth by the very people he was against, thereby lending credibility to the perception that game makers are evil, dishonest hacks

He's ultimately a self demonstrating example of the kind of detached mentality game companies have in regards to their critics, and you can't really blame pirates for laughing off the notion of enriching those arrogant tards.

>Copying software is like copying an idea.
>If you see someone crack a coconut on TV and do it yourself, the anti-piracy argument is that you're a thief and a degenerate because ideas can and should be owned.

I've never heard this at all, and it sounds like total strawman that stretches the definition of "idea" too far. An idea for a word processor is not a word processor. An idea for a painting program is not a painting program. If the example you posted were, that would mean that any and all freeware alternatives are piracy, which is obviously false.

The only similarity between actual softwar and an idea is that both have a level of intangibility. I say "level", because software actually does have a practical effect on the user: it allows them to gibe their computer an ability or function that was not there before. I can have a laptop, and I can have a tablet, but if I do not have the appropriate software, I can't use my tangible tools in the way I want to use them. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but this seems to be something more than a mere idea. I cannot accept your premise.

You know Im not for or against piracy but when a game itself resorts to such blatant starwmanning as to why piracy is bad, well that's just a white glove to the face.

You're not gonna make people stop pirating your shit by naming your villain R4. Pirates are just gonna see this propaganda bull shit as a challenge.

Piracy's not gonna disappear and even if it does the people who would pirate aren't necessarily going to buy the game anyways, especially if it's some niche weeb shit.

>>14632876
It's not about stopping piracy.

It's about demonizing pirates to avoid addressing the various causes of piracy.

What the game industry still fails to realize is that pirates are potential customers, too, and the way to their wallets is through addressing their concerns.

Alienating them achieves the exact opposite, which is something everyone with half a brain can understand.

In the end, price, accessibility, and quality aren't always up to par, but sadly it's a lot easier for devs and publishers to sperg out over pirates than to ask one what it would take for your product to be worth buying.

I mean, even though accepting criticism might actually result in imporovement, adaptation and bettering the product, there are just too many people with terribly huge egos who simply can't acknowledge when their work just isn't good enough to shell out money for.

After all, Brave has a point in the sense that money's not infinite and sometimes your budget is simply better spent elsewhere, whether you get to play a certain game or not.

And even if you successfully crack down on piracy with force, all you'll wind up attaining is hatred and scorn from pirates.

They may not have bought some of your games before, but you'll have given them a reason to not buy any more, simply out of spite for your shitty selfish attitude.

The point is, piracy is just the gaming fandom's answer to being largely ignored and marginalized by companies who take their customers for granted.

Ironically, the games practically lampshade that by having the goddesses living aloof, detached lives from within their luxurious castles.

>>14632807
>Copying software is like copying an idea.

HAVE YOU EVER WRITTEN CODE IN YOUR LIFE YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER?

>>14633083
Noone writes code nowadays, they just copy paste code from elsewhere until it magically works.

Pirates are like communists and communists are trying to overthrow this whole money deal.
I think they would be able to pull it off as the technologies advance further and further, just like Marx predicted, publishers try to fight the inevitable and cash in while there is still some cash going around but eventually we won't be needing to pay for software at all.
War on piracy imho is akin to war on terror or drugs: it just brings more and more collateral damage without much positive results, basically battling symptoms seems kinda retarded when you ignore the cause.

>>14633132
>pirates are communists

Piracy is actually as capitalist as fuck.

Traditionally pirates were self employed independent contractors who traded in theft and murder.

They didn't redistribute wealth to the masses. Rather, they kept all the fruits of their labor for themselves.

What you're thinking of is Robin Hood, which is much closer to Brave's strawman goal of giving to the poor.

But even then, Robin Hood was traditionally seen as a heroic non-communist figure who helped the underclass by curbing the elites' abuses of power, basically functioning as a de facto consumer watchdog rather than a grizzled commie.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for one the games to explored how the share-impoverished underclass is ill served by the goddesses.

It'd be a nice change of pace from "Adventures of the Rich and Ruling Class"

>>14631066
Are you implying that asge group has no serious financial difficulties?

>>14632807

In a way, the fact that he's represented as a Gaogaigar type hero may suggest that he's not a complete strawman and that the developers are aware of how people really see pirates and game developers regarding the war on piracy.

>>14633283

> Traditionally pirates were self employed independent contractors who traded in theft and murder.

They also divided up all loot between the entire crew with the Captain (and one other, quartermaster I think) only getting marginally more than the rest, slept and lived in similar arrangements (as opposed to the Captain having his own cabin like films say) and voted who would lead them among other things, because they didn't leave the Navy or what have you to serve under someone they didn't elect or enrich someone above or beyond them.

>>14633464
It's called fair share. Nothing wrong with it.

>>14633025

Piracy is closer to renting than anything else. If Blockbuster lends out there copy of Metal Gear to a thousand people Konami didn't see a single cent beyond what BB payed, but a lot of those people who played it may turn around and buy it if it's good.

IF

IT'S

GOOD

And even without that the amount of people who actually do know how to pirate, especially console gamers is MINUSCULE.

The DS sold 154 MILLION units and it's one of the easiest systems to throw a flash cart on.

>>14634385

There isn't, but it's also more communist than capitalist since they all worked for the good of all and decided everything by common consensus, including whether they liked the leadership of the guy deciding where they'd go.

>>14634425

The difference there is that Konami gave BB the right to rent stuff out. The pirate is still stealing and whether they actually pay for it is based on their whim. I say whim because there's nothing to prove they will even pay for games they like. This doesn't make them any less of a thief.

This really is my big issue with Pirates: all the mental and verbal gymnastics they play to justify what they do, rather than just admitting they like getting stuff without paying. I largely cannot buy the "little guys vs. The big mean corperation" narrative because the mental twists are so apparent and numerous. This is not to say I think the industry is innocent, I just can't stand all the attempts to justify piracy.

>>14634470

Im not justifying it but just as there's no way to prove they'll buy the game there's no way to tell they would have NOT bought it either. It works both ways.

Most people who don't pirate probably see some random niche title and think, "eh I don't need that." People aren't going to buy every game under any circumstances and are generally more likely to buy games they know they'll like when they do.

>>14634428
That's democratically elected leadership versus a king. A king is a tyrant and none are an economic system but different types of internal hierarchy. The economic system is that government fully controls businesses, pay, et cetera. Democratic socialism's socialism has partial ownership of businesses. Capitalism is where government has zero ownership of businesses and they are independent. There are very little pure systems as they are all taking ideas from each other that they think will work well, which is why you see capitalist governments with universal healthcare. How those countries govern may relate to economics but it's not necessarily the same.

>>14634480

> Most people who don't pirate probably see some random niche title and think, "eh I don't need that." People aren't going to buy every game under any circumstances and are generally more likely to buy games they know they'll like when they do.

The difference here is that the person who ignored the game did not play the game. They did not recieve the work of the developer, nor did they even see if the title was actually generic or not. Not buying a game is not theft, as there is no law nor moral precident for not buying games. The complete opposite is true concerning the pirate, though, as they get the developer's services without paying the agreed to price.

That's my issue. I cannot really say anything about the specifics of monetary loses, but honestly I think it's best for the conversation not to get stuck in to economics. There is far more things that are off about common pro-piracy arguments below the economic level (i.e. the ideas that software and ideas are the same, which is spoken about in this thread).

Not to say I have total understanding of all possible issues, or that the industry is completely devoid of poor decisions. >>14633025 males some solid points a out how the industry has botched their relations with pirates, considering them like devils and boogeymen, rather than humans. But the arguments I've been most often exposed to seem horridly entitled, with the idea that consumers are owed the work of the developers, and any money given is an act of charity permeating the discourse. Even in this thread there are examples of that.

>>14634698

Well again the whole issue isn't about the rights and wrongs of piracy, it's the developers using obvious straw man arguments and whining about it instead of improving their products so that people WANT to buy them.

>>14632807
>because ideas can and should be owned.

That's literally what patents are

Eastern Europe kinda shows that for a pretty large group of people, it's not really a lack of money that makes people pirate. They just do it because it means money they don't have to spend.

>>14634480
>Im not justifying it but just as there's no way to prove they'll buy the game there's no way to tell they would have NOT bought it either.

I think the music industry has shown pretty easily. Especially considering that music costs a lot less than games, but far more people in percentage download music than pirate games.

>>14635258
This isn't EE or China. Customers actually appreciate a good product and every single one of my friends I've known since highschool not only bought all the games they liked, but went as far as to buy older games they couldn't afford while they were younger, that they originally pirated. This habit is normal for gamers here in the West but it would be unheard of in places like Russia or China.

There's no use comparing the two.

>>14635276
Well of course an American would be entitled.

>>14635276

I don't even mean Russia, I mean like everything east of France. Even in Poland were CD Projekt is, they said in an interview that piracy is so rampant in their part of the world that they basically HAVE to add in extra stuff in hopes it'll be worth buying.

Also as >>14635266 said, the music industry has shown over the last almost 20 years that if it's easier to pirate, a lot of people will just pirate.

>>14635299

Performer artists don't exactly seem bad off financially

Piracy is rampant when there is no incentivisation to buy a legit copy.

Consider a cheaper (most often free) pirated game and a more costly legally obtained one, what incentives could there be to buy the latter?

>Fear of punishment
Good luck with that. When's the last time you heard someone get busted for downloading a pirated game? Even if it happens, most people have an attitude of "but it won't happen to me".

>Better features
Often it's hard to play multi on a pirated copy. Getting patches and content updates is more troublesome, you can't put it on Steam, etc. The convenience of a legally obtained copy and access to official support that comes from it is actually a strong incentive especially for cheaper titles.

>Decency
Appeals to the buyer's decency may work when we're talking about a title made by a smaller company or an indie one. After all if they made a good game and you enjoyed it, you'd like to support the creators, right? But for bigger ones this often falls flat. A company like EA or Konami, asking the people to be decent human beings while they themselves pull off ridiculous shit all the time? Practice what you preach.

>>14632807
>Copying software is like copying an idea.
>If you see someone crack a coconut on TV and do it yourself, the anti-piracy argument is that you're a thief and a degenerate because ideas can and should be owned.
>Basically, copyright is just a pretty way of saying "thought policing" because nothing tangible has been lost or stolen.


I've seen a lot of dumb fucking comparisons on 4chan but holy shit this one is a special type of retarded.

People who try to justify pirating are some of the stupidest fucking people. Just say you want free games. Everybody else knows this is why it is, and nobody is going to actually buy whatever moral bullshit you say. Infact, I think I will go pirate a game right now, simply because I want a free game.

>>14635322

Because they don't make their money off the music being sold, they make their money off the performances. But there is a definite noticable drop in the music industry's sales.

>>14635362
>When's the last time you heard someone get busted for downloading a pirated game?

Games, not particulatly. But if you're in Japan and you're caught being an uploader, you are fucked.

>>14635448

That could just as easily be accredited to streaming services and XM

you can't say for certain it's because of pirates because there's no proof that the people who pirate where your customers in the first place

>>14635362
>Consider a cheaper (most often free) pirated game and a more costly legally obtained one, what incentives could there be to buy the latter?
My conscience?

>>14635453
>That could just as easily be accredited to streaming services and XM
Except the drop started before either of those, when all we had was Kazaa and Napster, and the only legal way of getting music was CDs.

>>14635459

That's still not proof that the drop is because of piracy.

>Sales are down and piracy exists ergo sales suffer because of piracy

is a fallacy. there's no proof the two have a major coloration. Sales could be down because of the economy CD's are expensive for what you get and things like movies music and games are the first to cut when you have the be frugal. Or it could just be because the products are shit.

Blaming it on piracy is just an excuse

>>14635451
Uploading and downloading are not the same.

>>14635459
>My conscience

Decency was given as one possible argument.

>>14635473

I don't see it as decency, I see it as morality. Regardless of what others do, having possession of something you did not rightfully earn is morally wrong. To do otherwise makes you a parasite of the system, or as Rand called them, the looters.

A company behaving immorally just not justify stealing, two wrongs don't make a right.

>>14635480
>Rand

Here's a tip, if you want people to actually listen to what you say DON'T BRING UP INSANE PEOPLE! The fuck are you? A Freshman? Fuck's sake. Rand. You're an asshole.

>>14635480
Hahahaha, you finally revealed yourself, Randy.

Just gtfo and let us buy and play games at our leisure.

Seriously though
>economic reality is morality
This shit never fail to crack me up.

>>14635491

I think you're confusing me for someone else in the thread. I think stealing, regardless of the circumstance, is wrong. Why are you entitled to someone else's work without trade simply because you dislike them, or because you cannot obtain it otherwise? We aren't talking about products that no longer exist, just people who want reasons to justify stealing.

>>14635497
No it's you all along, Ayny Randy. Just stop and go back to your hugbox with all your other ubermen friends.

>>14635515

I don't believe in Rand's philosophy, I was just bringing her up because she had her own word for people who just live off others. Personally I call them moochers, because everyone knows one of those.

>>14635536

Yeah. You're only as good as the people you refer too.

It's like saying Hitler had some good ideas about how to keep a train running.

>>14631059
He didn't make a show people would watch

>>14633083
>writing code
No nigga, I just google a bit and jury-rig shit until it magically works.

>>14635552
>It's like saying Hitler had some good ideas about how to keep a train running.
that was mussolini
and "moocher" has been used for ages outside of that shitty author's crap

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>TFW people here believe that you can own information.