I'm 14 episodes into Gundam Seed Destiny. When does it get bad?

it doesn't, /m/ deceived you

>>14613379
wait for Jesus

>>14613379
Around episode 40

>>14613568
This. It's promising until Kira gets back

SEED Destiny is not a great show if you're in it for plot, but man does it deliver if you just want to see lots of people eat shit.

>>14613379
Once Jesus descends from the heavens and liberates the old MCs from their position as protagonists, you too shall be liberated from enjoying the show.

>>14613379
Do you think Shinn is right?
Do you want to see him kick Kira's shit in?
Then it will go to shit in around 25 episodes.

Do you like Kira?
Do you want to see Athrun wipe that attitude clean off Shinn's face?
Then it doesn't get bad.

The anti-Destiny sentiment is mostly due to the fact that the promo material and ads for Destiny made it look like CE's version of Zeta. /m/'s oldfags expected Shinn to have character development like Kamille and to replace Kira as the main character. Neither of these things happen, and they felt betrayed. They were so butthurt, in fact, that they continue to cry about it over a decade later which is really, really sad.

>>14614012
>Do you want to see Athrun wipe that attitude clean off Shinn's face?
More like, do you want to see all the subtle character development Athrun has been hiding behind being a total bitch get thrown away so he can mindless suck Kira & Lacuses dicks?

Seriously, Athruns absolute regression at the end of Destiny was pretty garbage. Nobodoy's motivations make any damned sense.

>>14614054

It seemed pretty obvious he wanted to be with Kira and Cagalli all along. Well barring that one point for like 3 episodes where he's mad at Heine that seemingly only is there so Athrun won't listen to him at a critical moment, get Savior destroyed and torpedo any chance of the two casts getting along so they can have their big fight because nobody else existed to give any semblence of conflict at that point.

But after that Athrun goes right back to looking miserable and like he's kicking himself for not just staying in Orb from the start.

>>14614054
Whatever.
He still stomps Shinn's shit in during the final battle.

>>14614252
With the way Shinn fought in the final battle, the Astray girls from Seed could've beaten him. What dumbfuck tries to grab beamsabers?

>>14613644

Yea, it's mostly boring from 14 on to about 40 with some entertaining bits here and there, and then the last few episodes are dumb as hell, though whether that's good or not depends on you. The first 12 or 13 episodes are the only decent ones and those are in your rear view mirror now.

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It doesn't get bad if you're a fan of the old cast, like I am.

I still enjoy SEED Destiny anyways.

>>14614012
>GSD is only bad if you're a fan of Shinn
Enough of this meme. This show is only great if you've got no fucking taste, and don't care as long as you see robots smash shit.
The show has writing and technical problems to the point that the last epsidoes had to be rehashed about 2-3 times to fix them, AND it needed a remaster to take out a lot of the uglier parts!
This show is damaged on a fundamental level and you can't argue against that!

Athrun beating Shinn isn't the big issue here (ignoring that Shinn, the supposed main character doesn't even put up a fight, and Athrun, Kira and other big name characters take no damage in the final battle at all), the problem is the fight doesn't MEAN anything.

You're not watching a teacher fight against a wayward student, or people clashing ideals against each other.
Shinn doesn't have anything important to say, beause he's hardly a character at this point, and all Athrun has to say is "you're a big dummy, you dumb dummy!"
And that's because instead of setting up some sort of relationship between these guys that falls apart, Athrun hardly cares or hangs around the rest of the new cast, and Shinn's always on edge towards Athrun, so there's really NOTHING going on between the two at all.

And you know what the best part about this is? The only reason it was written that way so they could make use of stock footage from the battle they had in Episode 43, and Freedom can use stock footage against Legend, because they can just use stock footage from the last series. Yeah, that's right, clips and pieces from the finale of the last series ended up in this one!

In my opinion, episode 21 is the precise moment SEED Density goes from okay to utter shit.

>>14614012
>if you like Kira then Destiny won't go bad.
PLEASE, enough of this nonsense. Destiny ruined Kira by making him an idiot who completely goes off the rails just because of the hunch that Durandal did it.


The only thing enjoyable about Destiny if you're a Kira fan is that time in the remaster where he uses the Strike Rouge Ootori (even then, that was dumb piloting)

>>14614392
>an idiot who completely goes off the rails just because of the hunch that Durandal did it.
He's right, though. Durandal *did* do it, so the idiot is you, not Kira.

>>14614418
It doesn't matter that he was right when his method of concluding Durandal was responsible was absolute baseless lunacy, that he pursues to the point of obsession

>>14614418
the fact that he's right isn't because he did his homework. Which leads me to think that instead of having the AA intervene during battles; the staff should've had them investigate the nature of the War.

>>14614418
Never thought I'd see a Kira's cocksucker better than Fllay.

>>14614294

Th meme will end about the same time you stop concluding that Sunrise/Fukuda released the various versions of Destiny to fix it rather than to increase profits of it and included changes because they were new versions of the show and new content increases sales.

>>14614435

> Someone tried to kill us
> And they were using brand new ZAFT designed suits to do it
> We should probably talk to the guy running ZAFT
> Oh, he's just started using a fake Lacus to sway opinion
> I guess he has motive and means
> Couldn't possibly be him though

They definitely could have used more solid evidence before concluding that it was definitely him, but acting like it was just a hunch or entirely baseless is being just as stupid.

>>14613379
Is it true there's body inflation in Destiny?

>>14614473
>isn't because he did his homework
Give it a fucking rest, already. It's been over a decade.

The show (in the form of Kira's dialogue) makes it plain to the audience that it was Gil. Do you REALLY need a scene of Gil going "And i would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling kids and that dog!" to stop you from crying about it?

inb4 SRW screenshot

>>14614561
>The show (in the form of Kira's dialogue) makes it plain to the audience that it was Gil.

The basis is utterly, utterly illogical and out of character for Gil at that point of the show, and any point of the show up until he randomly turns Snidely Whiplash and gets a literal Death Star throne room.

Kira' accusation is based purely on the fact that only the chairman could be behind an attack staged with advanced ZAFT mobile suits. No attention is paid at all to the fact Kira keeps a stolen advanced ZAFT mobile suit in his basement, and his wife owns a factory satellite that churns out advanced ZAFT mobile suits based on designs they have stolen from ZAFT

"Gil was guilty because Kira said he was guilty" is insulting nonsense.

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>>14614497
my sides. though it's true. Kira was sorta like a headless chicken acting like that. Durandal having an impersonator does not mean he's trying to kill the real one.

>>14614523
its basis is weak considering that the PLANT populace needed to be fed that Lacus was the mediator who was instrumental to ending the hostilities of the first war.

>>14614647
This too.

>>14614523
>Th meme will end about the same time you stop concluding that Sunrise/Fukuda released the various versions of Destiny to fix it rather
What the hell do you call Final Plus then?

>>14613379
You watching dub or sub?

>>14613379
When Cagalli cries

>>14613379
Don't get too attached to the orange GOUF.

>>14614647
Except Lacus apparently has oodles of dealings in information. IF someone else had access to prototype ZAFT mobile suits...she'd probably know.

Never once is any alternative presented other then Gil. It was Gil, he was the only person that could have done it. The entire point of his character is that he's willing to do pretty much anything for what he sees as the way to end humanity's suffering or whatever. While playing the victim most of the time.

>>14614271
And then there's Destiny.

>>14613379
>When does it get bad?
Episode 2. The entire series is a trash fire of re-used animation, sameface, a "plot" cobbled together by a drunk, and an MC who gets kicked the fuck out of the lead role/focus.

>>14614752
Not him, but I watched it dubbed.

>>14614268
>What dumbfuck tries to grab beamsabers?

People give Shinn too much shit for this because it didn't work.

It was actually a decent gamble because he blocked them by firing his palm cannons at them. Had they been enough to overpower the beam sabers and shoot into IJ Athrun would have been killed.

Where as blocking with a shield or boomerang blades just put him in a deadlock where as IJ can hit him with it's legs bladed.

If Shinn's move had worked people would be praising it as a gutsy move, not calling him a dumbass.

>>14614647

The show does a bad job of explaining this but Gil was doing evil smirks from episode 1 and the only reason he seemed so reasonable until the end is that it took them that long for the staff to actually figure out what his evil plan actually was.

But the show never suggests at a different party. The Junius Seven guys are completely wiped out and nobody else from that faction shows up or makes a peep for the rest of the show, and Djbril is later shown that he didn't know Meer wasn't the actual Lacus Clyne and doesn't even seem to know anything about her given that he toys with allying with her while she's giving her speech until she turns him down before he can even ask.

Daily reminder that SEED Destiny was an NTR fetish anime.

Shinn gets cucked out of both a blonde gf and his role as MC by Jesus Yamato.

Meanwhile, Durandal gets cucked out of his leadership role in ZAFT by Darth Lacus.

It's really no wonder women and nips love the show.

>>14614294
>You're not watching a teacher fight against a wayward student, or people clashing ideals against each other.

Just a reminder that one piece of promo art for the finale had the Strike Freedom and Destiny going at each other, both heavily damaged and on their last legs. A tagline was that the finale was a clash of ideologies.

>>14615118

I mean Kira and Shinn did fight each other again in the finale, if briefly.

And the damaged art was in all their battle advertised. Freedom vs Savior, Freedom vs Destroy, Freedom vs Impulse, and SF vs Destiny.

In all of the actual battles both suits are pristine (in Freedom vs Impulse's case Impulse takes some damage and swaps out, and Freedom loses a wing but that's it) until the last few seconds of the fight when they get totally destroyed.

Presumably because animating damage is hard and won't work with the stock footage well.

But it's a far cry from Freedom vs Providence, where both suits did get progressively damaged as the fight wore on.

>>14615118
As I said:
This is what pissed /m/ off. Not what happened in the show in and of itself, but the fact that the promo material lied to them is apparently unforgivable and worthy of a decade-long grudge.

>>14615239
Saying a show is bad does not equate to a grudge.
I think the entire line of Transformers movies made by Michael Bay is terrible, but I don't have a grudge against it.
I just don't go to see it in theaters.

>>14615239

Sad thing is nobody's arguing the show is good, just that the events as they played line up and make sense, if done extremely poorly an incompetently.

Durandal being the bad guy doesn't make the show any less shit. It's the idiots that are claiming it's some kind of clever mind game where Kira and Lacus are actually evil and the show is trying to trick the audience into thinking they aren't.

>>14613379
for me it got bad when captain comb over conveniently derpped into an attack from behind by an enemy he was just seconds ago schooling completely.

But Kira's surviving a nuke to the face was when it became utter shit. I don't know what drove me to continue watching. Denial? Hope? A need for closure? I can say for certain that i was unfulfilled when it was all said and done.

Watching Destiny is like an m fag right of passage. Most won't enjoy it, but it needs to be done, if only to attain a better appreciation of the better series out there, not just in the Gundam franchise, but all m series as a whole.

>>14615542
>Watching Destiny is like an m fag right of passage.
Shit. Hurry up with those releases, Rightstuf! I've only seen the first few episodes of Disco-Gun Seed and zero anything else CE.

>>14614939
Yeah dub is far better, the bluray version on nyaa has the dub too.

>>14615250
This >>14615118 is not saying the show is bad.
It's saying "Just a reminder that the promo art lied to us!"

>>14615251
>It's the idiots that are claiming it's some kind of clever mind game where Kira and Lacus are actually evil and the show is trying to trick the audience into thinking they aren't.
I've never seen anyone trying to seriously argue that though. What they're attempting to convey is that the show is *so* badly written that despite the intent to make them look good Kira and company come across as completely self righteous and unsympathetic. Not villainous per say, but so misguided as to be doing far more damage than good. The writers' intent was obviously that they be the unambiguous good guys, and that intent is still clear from how things are framed, but the actual meat of things casts them in a much dimmer light.

People going on about Darth Lacus aren't seriously suggesting that was the intent, only pointing out issues in the story that make it even possible to extrapolate a conclusion like that in the first place.

>>14616130
Pretty much this. And what makes matters worse is how the show tries to say it's moral is "question your leaders instead of blindly following them," while it wants you to follow Kira and Lacus without question. Doesn't matter how questionable their actions are, the show wants you on their side. It even has a character say you'd have to be messed up to disagree with Lacus, completely without irony.

There is a reason why they get called out in crossover games. Even DWG, which turns characters into cardboard cutouts of themselves, took the time to say bullshit. The hypocrisy of the writing is that bad.

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This little piece of shit just Gary Stu'd all over my Kira. I hope he fucking dies (I didn't read any of this thread in case of spoilers)

>>14616885
>in crossover games
People actually give a shit about those stories?
Why would you even bring that up? That has nothing to do with the show.

>>14613379
>I'm 14 episodes into Gundam Seed Destiny. When does it get good?
Never.

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>>14619307
Not an argument

>about to get an edgy MC in gundam for once
>jesus just fucks it all up
worst show ever

>>14619302
In a way it does. We were talking about how Kira and Lacus come off as self-righteous, arrogant, unsympathetic, etc. despite how the show wants them to be seen as the the good guys. Those games reflect how their canon selves came off to some people. That Kira needs character development so he can grow up. And considering Bandai pays for these games, it goes to show that SEED isn't the sacred cow some people believe it is.

>>14614939
>>14615674
I have to agree, outside of Koyasu, Mitsuishi, And Ishida. I thought the Japanese cast didn't fit as well as the English cast did. Matt Hill is by far better as Kira than Soichiro Hoshi.

depending how soon you started destiny after seed, it would be bad right off the bat because you would be going


"heeeey wait isn't that he footage they used of the freedom fighting providence dragoon pods being used for the Zaku Phantom fighting the ExZess gun pods wtf"

>>14620401
Someone's salty Gaogaigar killed the Braves franchise.

>>14620899
Progressive my ass. In a time when the nature of anime itself changing following the success of Evangelion, Gaogaigar simply went "Hey guys. You know all those old standbys and cliches of the mecha genre that you're all sick of? Well here they all are, and we're going to show you why they're so great." It was nothing new dipshit, nothing unique and kids stayed the fuck away from it. They didn't buy the toys and that's why Baan Gaan was cancelled.

Go eat a Nixon.

>>14613379
When you look at the screen

>we actually summoned Clawshrimpy
Feels just like old times, I love watching these threads. Where's VF?

>>14621122
Acting high as fuck in the srw thread.

>>14621143
I expect nothing less from him.

>>14620345
Pretty much, I thought the English cast fitted the characters better.

I loved Mark's Rau, Trevor's Mwu and Sam's Athrun the most.

>it's a "Clawshrimpy saves /m/ from SEEDwank with senseless Lionposting" episode

It's an improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY

>>14621666
If only we can summon Spaceboots on demand to nuke threads

>>14621043
You have a very curious definition of the word 'fact'.

>>14621043
Excuse me, but what the fuck are you talking about?

>>14621769
coordies will be a real thing in my lifetime
I need to change my major

this thread made me miss valvrave thread.

>>14621043

First off, Gai was the lead. Not Mamoru. He was just the one for kids to self insert to. The day is always saved thanks to Gai using that "toxic masculinity" you hate so much.

Secondly, they're feminine because they're elementary school kids and thus prepubecent. No shit they're slightly feminine. That sure as hell doesn't mean their trans.

The fact that Mamoru idolizes Gai and has a crush of a female character suggests the only reason he isn't a traditional masculine character is because he's still a kid but will grow into one later.

People don't bitch at Shinji for being feminine, they bitch at him for being ineffective when it's his job to save the world from giant monsters. You don't have to be a testosterone bleeding manly badass to be a hero. You do however have to be effective.

You want and example of a feminine lead? Look right at Seed and Kira. He sure as hell isn't oozing testosterone, he's thin and feminine and polite to a fault, but he can still kick ass and is a very popular character in Japan.

Or Lelouch from Geass. Is he masculine and badass? Hell no, the only thing manly about him is his voice. He's otherwise a physically weak feminine looking character that uses his brain and charisma to compensate. For that matter Suzaku isn't exactly manly either, despite his physical skill.

>Snapfit-kun, the "pablo" guy, and now Clawshrimpy
Be on your guard, /m/en. If the three of them get too close, they'll combine into Hell King Shitposter, and this board is doomed.

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>>14614294
>hating on based Shinn "I just killed your sister but whatever let's kiss" Asuka

Well here's a variation on a theme:

I've seen Seed in it's entirety about 3 years ago, dubbed-- should I finally give Destiny an obligatory chance or should I re-watch Seed first?

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>>14622180
Pic related

>>14621043
Why are you still getting assblasted at TTGL?

Did you forget that Leeron IS gay? He's part of the main characters and the most useful member of the Guren Brigade even though he's girly as shit. Not everyone has to be a fighter. Everyone has their own role.

>>14622180
Rewatch SEED dubbed first off, before doing Destiny.

>>14622279

I'd agree that he's an offensive stereotype of a gay person (and that mecha animal generally only uses that stereotype), but he wasn't lesser or mistreated by the cast for being girly or gay.

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Just finished it. Absolute masterpiece, just like Seed. I don't know why I listened to /m/ again, you told me Wing and ZZ were bad too but they also turned out to be good.

- Athrun's character development was perfect
- Kira was badass as fuck
- Cagalli the only disappointing part, she was a useless crybaby with no sign of the cute, badass tomboy she once briefly was
- Mu came back, badass as fuck, OTP with Murrue
- Shinn was literally never portrayed as MC at all so I don't know why people were complaining about that. Athrun was always the protagonist. Shinn was just a Shadow the Hedgehog tier edgy side character who rightfully got his ass kicked in the end. I'm glad he survived though because he's cute together with Lunamaria
- Seed is better than UC

>>14622340
Your not even trying

>>14622361
He's right you know

Shrimpy ignored me....

>>14622369

It doesn't matter why you think it was true, it still is true regardless.

>blocking beam saber with palm cannons

Wasn't there something about CE beams just passing through each other?
And even if it did work, wouldn't Shinn eventually just blow his own hand off by pretending to be Domon?

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>>14622446
Mamoru a shit.

Best Brave lead right here. I know you don't like him because they don't show his babydick in the first episode.

>>14622465
I'm honestly surprised he doesn't like Yuuta. What the hell did he do wrong?

>>14622446
>Mamoru was the lead, especially n FINAL

Mamoru proper doesn't even show up until FINAL's nearly half over and he doesn't start featuring prominatly until the final battle starts. Neither him nor his copy are in the first episode at all. He's not the lead. At all.

>That lead to things like him losing hard to the first encounters witht he primevals

Because he hesitated when Cain showed his face and got wrecked? If anything the toxic masculine way of just smashed through Cain anyway would have been the winning move, instead he hesitated and lost. Then once he was fixed up he went right back to solving all his problems with violence and this time it worked.

>FINAL even showed via Mamoru's Replijin that he can pilot GaoGaiGar way more effectively than Guy.

Because he installed those PASQ machines into them. And even then once Guy finally got the will to fight Mamoru after he wrecked Choryujin he stomped him hard.

>J is pretty much a CRITICISM of Masculine ideas.

J's more a critism of being the lone wolf that insists on going it alone, and yeah he's punished for it. He's the rival though. It's kind of what he does.

>Kira isn't a good exampke either because of how hard he bulied Sai because he wanted to steal his love itnerest because he was "superior" which is pretty fucked up.

Kira beat up Sai once because Flay manipulated them into it by bragging that she slept with Kira despite being with Sai and then when Sai got rightfully pissed at her she acted all afraid like he was going to hit her so Kira came to her "rescue". A moment of weakness perhaps but Kira was manipulated into it by Flay. He doesn't otherwise go around beating people up to brag about how he's superior to everyone.

>>14622446
>He bullied Sai because he wanted to steal his love interest because he was "superior" which is pretty fucked up. It's hard to look at his ideals and not see a hypocritical bully after that.
Well, the war took a toll on his mental health. He's been living in a neutral colony in space, away from any conflict. But suddenly he was thrusted into the center of the war. Nobody bothers to treat him.

I mean, he was kind of an ass to Sai but he didn't do that because he wanted to.

>>14613379
>Gundam SEED-Destiny
>When does it get bad?
Episode 1

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>>14620871
>>14620925
>>14621824
>>14621831
>>14622093
>>14622237
>>14622333
>>14622438
>>14622465
>>14622482
>>14622487
>>14622487
>EVER arguing with Clawshrimpy
>2016 AD

>>14622513

I'm sure he'll reason eventually.

After all being unreasonably stubborn is toxicly masculine. Something that Kamina would do.

So, this is the power of Clawshrimpy. I wasn't here when his original run ended, and even with all the stories going around, I'm still a little surprised.

>>14613379
Episode 1.

You just seem to have shit taste.

>>14622563
>Mamoru's limited screentime in FINAL is explained by him trying to help off-screen. Don't kid yourself into not believing he played a major role.

Of course he played a major role. He certainly wasn't the lead though. You have actually be around for the start end and most of the middle of the story to be the lead.

Don't move the goal posts. That's a Kamina move.

>All the Pas-Q Machine was was a replication core, how was that supposed to make the Replijin Mamoru a better pilot?

I dunno but that's what he says. Or maybe it was Q parts or whatever. I forget what they were called but whatever he stole from 3Gs, which they took from Gimlet in episode one (which again Mamoru wasn't in at ALL) is what powered up GGG so Mamoru could use it so well. It's said directly.

>>14622571

For one I'd think you'd be all about taking Shinn down a peg since he's just a solid ball of hatred and agression.

For two, how the does Kira bully him? He attacks him because he's trying to stop him from killing his countrymen, and he fails at that because Shinn takes out the fleet anyway. Then he fights him because Shinn is working for a guy who wants to control the planet and has a Death Star. It's not about being superior at all. And of course he believes he's correct. So does Shinn. So does literally anyone in the history of ever.

>>14622673

Neither quantity or quality of development, nor how central to a team's emotional core a character is denotes main character status. A main character is simply the one you experience the story through, or through most in some cases. Secondary characters can and do get more development than the main one and are more central to the story's team.

>>14622673

FINAL's ED theme is about Renais. Is she the lead? Hell no.

Sei is the lead of GBF because he's the lead of GBF, and all the openings and promotional material reflects that.

Who is front and center in the openings and all promotional material for GGG? Guy. Who pilots the titual mecha? Guy. Who's credited first in the voice credits? Guy. Is GGG Final, which Guy is clearly the lead of because Mamoru isn't even in it for the most of the show, promoted as a new twist where Guy is suddenly the lead? No it's treated as a sequel to GGG with the same lead.

Yes Mamoru is really important. No he is not the lead. Not in the show proper and especially not in Final.

It's possible for the lead to not be the main fighter, as it happens in GBF, and Gravion for that matter too. But this is not at all the case with GGG.

>>14615087
>Shinn gets cucked out of both a blonde gf

Considering the main time he saw Stella, her behavior could be defined as legally retarded, I'm not sure romance was ever on the table there.

At best, she's his replacement kid sister.

>>14613379
For me, it was when the Psycho Gundams showed up. Because you just KNOW it's ripping off Zeta. And not in the way SEED steals from MSG but like how....damn. I've never seen one show rip off another show THIS badly.

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>>14622340

>>14622693
>treat him with contempt and hatred yourself

That's laughable that Kira treated anyone with "contempt and hatred" considering his MO is to let everyone walk away even the people he knows are bad guys. The only one he treated with contempt was Durandal and that was only after he spent the whole show trying to kill Kira and his friends.

Shinn certainly treated Kira with contempt and hatred. Kira on the other hand allowed Shinn to destroy his Gundam and risked death rather than take a killshot on him . Yes yes I know if you pause it at the right second it looks like he took a kill swipe on something you can't possibly see in motion, but I'm skeptic on that, especially since Kira later deliberately avoids stabbing the cockipt in his counter attack even though Shinn has a killing blow on him.

>>14622673
>It's the same way how in GBF, while Reiji was the confident one, Sei was still the main character despite being more feminine and not being as active in cmbat as Reiji. Because Sei was developed more than Reiji was.

You're thinking too far. They split the MC into Reiji and Sei so they could still cater to the gunota audience while having shounenshit MC.

>>14615118
I know about it. I saw it while the show was airing.

The story goes that the artist of the picture was told to draw something for the final battle, and wasn't really given any details of what was going on during it, just to make it look cool,
I can link the story if anyone is interested.

>>14622734
>Nadesico Prince of Darkness was pushed fully as a Ruri fanservice movie, but Akito was still the main character.

No, Ruri is the main character, Akito is a major character in the film but he is not the main character.

>>14622734
>Except in the last episode where it returns to the original one showibng Mamoru and Kaidou's return to Earth, reminding everyone they're the main characters.

That's like saying Fa is the main character of Zeta Gundam because she's the only pilot that doesn't end up dead or brain fried.

Or Lelouch isn't the lead of Geass because he doesn't survive the series.

Or Bright is the main character of CCA's because Amuro and Char get Axis shocked.

Or Private Ryan is the lead of Saving Private Ryan (he's in the title but he doesn't show up until pracically the end of the film) because the people the movie follows mostly all die.

That's not how it works.

>Shinn was in front of the openings and promotional matierials for Destiny.... and his stint as main character was incredibly short lived

Shinn actually is still considered the Destiny protgonist offically despite Kira upstaging him later on. And really in terms of screentime and dialogue Shinn really does get more than Kira if you compare.

>Nadesico Prince of Darkness was pushed fully as a Ruri fanservice movie, but Akito was still the main character.

Ruri is the lead of PoD. It was a poor choice but she's promoted and credited as such. Akito is barely in it, and although he's in the title that doesn't always mean something (Private Ryan isn't the lead of Saving Private Ryan.)

>Clawshrimpy still lives

Oh

MY


GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD

>>14622772
>Durandal was resonable. He was NOT Athrun's dad shouting about "THE COORDINATOR'S WORLD!"

That is actually what Durandal's plan would have brought about. He was just less blantant about it and didn't actually want to kill all the naturals (but he still doesn't care much for them as his speech about the naturals being the problem of the world shows) He was less evil than Patrick, and less evil than Dijbril but still evil.

Meanwhile Kira only opposed him at first because a hitsquad that looked like it was sent by Durandal tried to kill him. And sure enough Durandal continues to want them dead and later threatens the Earth with a death ray if they don't all follow his plan.

Plus Kira didn't like Orb working for EA either. He just didn't want them to all get killed for it, while they sorted things out being that Orb was only it because of a few crook policians and the Orb civilians and soldiers didn't deserve to get wiped out for it.

>>14613379
>When does it get bad?

About 14 episodes ago.

>>14622093

So I guess since Shrimpy hasn't refuted this guy that Mamoru isn't gay or trans and is only feminine because he's a kid he's agreeing with him.

Guess he'll need another self insert then.

>>14622800
Actually, up until they made landfall, the reception was generally positive. It was when the story bogged down on Earth and Kira came back and shennanigans that it started to go off the rails. And it was after the Destiny was actually introduced that it REALLY started shitting its pants.

There's a reason why people said the series ends in episode 34.

>>14622178
My god Hiraiface is so fucking bad. I don't hate it but those cartoony expressions didn't fit the tone of the scene at all.

>>14622539
>I'm sure he'll reason eventually.
He's been this dumb since /m/ started over a decade ago, what makes you think he'll change now?

>>14622826
Hiraiface isn't bad, it just that it doesn't suit with Gundam and the digital fucking art style that they used for SEED and SEED-Destiny makes it atrocious.

>>14622178
They're so adorable together. I love the scene where they hug and spin through the zero-g room

>>14622841
>"being a child doesn't mean you aren't who you are."

Young boys acts like women because they're generally androgynous. It's not uncommon.

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>>14622826

>>14622841
>"being a child doesn't mean you aren't who you are."

It certainly does. Very rarely has anyone have themselves figured out when they're a child. Late teens at best, usually not they're an adult.

It any case Mamoru even as a kid is clearly fine being a non trans male, and is straight based on his crush on Hana. And his feminine traits are due to not having gone through puberty yet.

>>14622892
Trans folk usually knows very well they're trans even in early childhood. The reason transition usually happens around/after puberty is because trans kids are given hormone blockers and are generally discouraged from transitioning because many adults (esp. their parents) are afraid that they might be wrong and ruin their lives.

That said, there is nothing in the show that explicitly disproves Mamoru being trans, although I don't see anything that specifically points at it either.

Being in love with a girl doesn't mean you're straight (bi/pansexuality are options too), but we've only seen romantic attraction (as you said, he is a child), so we can't really speak about sexuality. It is in fact possible to be in love with someone you're not attracted to, but there is really nothing about sexuality in GGG, just hetero romance, so most is just theory here.

>>14622881
>act like women
>androgynous
That can't both be true you realize?

>>14622829
How can you even know its him? Everyone can put any name in their title. Stupid Gaijin.

Wait, is Clawshrimpy really thinking Mamoru may be transsexual simply because he perceives him as feminine? That's a rather binary way if viewing things.

>>14622930
I doubt anyone has enough power level to wrote an essay on how Mamoru is a trans.

>>14622937
it isnt really more binary than saying everyone is cis lol

>>14622940
Must have slept at that scene. Again, everything is possible, but that's a bit far fetched to see an implied ship IMO. Kaidou is basically like family to Mamoru because he's the only person he knows that has a similar (and relatable) past. Isn't really a ship in my eyes.

>>14621079
>GGG FINAL
>Progressive

So...how do your mental gymnastics work around that whole fanservicey rape scene?

>>14622969
It's fine if GGG does it. It's the pinnacle of hi-brow scifi and psychological drama.

>>14622974
Of course it would be cut. Grand Glorious Gathering is a TV broadcast. They would get in trouble.

>>14622985
So...by this logic, shouldn't you SPECIFICALLY cite GGG FINAL: GGG, rather than the original OVA?
Or is this just human sloth causing you to shorten it? If the latter, I say fie on that! Victory goes to those who actually take the effort to type the extra four characters!

the minute you start it

>>14622958

> it isnt really more binary than saying everyone is cis lol

It not being different doesn't make it better. Deciding a feminine male is trans simply because they're feminine is like deciding men can't be gay or women can't be masculine. It's forcing your views on others and just because they're your views doesn't make them better.

>>14622962

That doesn't prove anything except that the viewer in question would want them to be trans. If there's no proof there's no reason to assume it.

>>14622930
Nice b8 m8

>>14620899
Shrimpy stop being such a nigger for once, no one will take your trash views seriously.

>>14623023
Its not about forcing your views on others. It's that he genders certain behavior (being shy, being indecisive etc.) as feminine. A lot of people think women are inherently meek/submissive and men are inherently aggressive and dominant. Saying Mamoru is feminine for being shy and submissive could be described as sexist though so you're somewhat right.

Shrimpy never said that Mamoru is absolutely trans, but on the other hand, since it's legit for trans women to behave masculine (and vice versa), you could extend that "x could be trans" to almost anyone. Adult characters could have transitioned off screen, NBs have a longer masc/fem phase etc. etc. No mecha anime I know from the top of my head really bothers to discuss gender and sexuality at length so there is always a lot of room for speculation.

Sjws will be strung up here by the goufs heat rod

>>14621043

>Inserting trans and feminine agendas into shows that never even considered them back when they were initially released

So this is the result of a mind warped by spending too much time in the deepest recesses of Tumblr.

You poor, unfortunate soul.

>>14623077
Hey shrimpy just wanna let you know that Gaogaigar is a shitty version of gurren lagann.

Clashrimpy summed up in one sentance
"I'm gay, i'm a femenist, i love gaogaigar and i hate everythin else" stop being a bad. Austistic

>>14623082
Gurren lagann invented mecha

>>14623091
he shouldn't breath desu

>>14622930
You can gauge someone's autism even if they're anonymous.

>>14623077
Oh you're allowed to speak on it, but you shouldn't say things like "Oh, a trans person would ID with mamoru" because that's not speaking about it, but rather you're speaking for/over them.

That said, I do prefer LGBT positivity with characters that are actually LGBT. I don't get being a mecha fan on grounds of looking for LGBT positivity or generally niceness, because this is the absolute last place to look for that. Like, it's like looking for Gun Control supporters in a Gun Shop.

>>14623066
Maybe they like that

Shrimpy we all know the real reason why you like gaogaigar is mamoru, you fucking shotacon

at least once a day shrimpy has to masturbate to mamoru and he imagines himself fucking him

>>14622930

How the hell are you still alive old man?

>>14623112
You shouldn't be on 4chan, it tends to trigger you people something fierce.

>>14623297
Imma let you in on a secret, it's because you bring him up all the time.

>>14623359
Actually trolls just make bait posts with 3G/TTGL, Shrimpy replies and everyone loses their shit

>>14623421
PTSD and "triggers" are completely different things, a soldier or disaster survivor is feeling a hell of a lot of different feelings than just being uncomfortable.

>>14623244
You say that but it is you who gets mad.

>>14623423
"Trigger" is literally a term from PTSD though.

Hey Clawshrimpy, what is your opinion of Getter Robo?

>>14622950
>But I could definitely understand trans fans of the show interpreting him that way just because he's such a positive representation of male femininity and all that.

Have they though?

I've heard trans interpretations applied to some characters in other works before, but so far you really seem to be the only person I've ever seen try to read that into Mamoru.

In fact, I could just as easily see them responding to this with a "Stop speaking for us" argument.

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>>14623440
Are you memeing on me right now

>>14623428
It's definitely not used in the same context, getting upset because you see holes in a picture is a hell of a lot different from having near-death flashbacks.

>>14623456
Well rape victims do have near-death flashbacks (after all if someone raped you, chances aren't too bad you get killed right after), and the symptomatic is identical (PTSD triggers can be anything from gunshots to certain words they heard in captivity to just seeing certain pictures of combat), so you don't really get to say rape triggers are fake and PTSD ones aren't.

>>14622423
Nah man

>>14623478
Dude the fuck are you talking about rape for? I'm talking about that Tyrophobia shit.

>>14623440
or medical journals, fuck those guys with their university education and practical experience

>>14623636
[Citation] and not one for an anti-feminist group who'll obviously try and discredit them.

>>14623647
Yeah but see they'll obviously try and say people are denying rape happens. Same thing with there opponents saying that rape has no negative effects on psyche.

>>14616885
>There is a reason why they get called out in crossover games. Even DWG, which turns characters into cardboard cutouts of themselves, took the time to say bullshit. The hypocrisy of the writing is that bad.

I'm actually curious to see some of this.

I've never seen Destiny and been a long time since I've seen Seed. Can someone give me the gist of this "Darth Lacus" thing?

>>14623688

At the end of Destiny Lacus takes over Plant as Chairwoman, after her faction forcibly wrecked Durandal's forces and destroyed his not-Deathstar, which ends up killing him (Kira personally goes to shoot him himself, but after a tense standoff, one of Durandal's former minions does it instead, so Kira just leaves them and then the base blows up thanks to Kira blowing the shit out of it)

The last shot we see is Lacus walking into the darkly lit Plant chamber in dark clothing (although that's the color theme the plant chairman has always had so she's just following tradition), which lots of people added the Imperial March to.

And the claim is that Lacus intentionally was out to kill Durandal and take control of Plant by force all along, and just manipulated everyone into thinking he was up to no good and she was the good guy.

>>14623688
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTw2YT6FeeE

>>14623688
They don't want to admit that Destiny is well-written, so they're pretending that the moral ambiguity of Kira and Lacus (and every other character) is unintentional.

>>14623647
How about an actual citation, preferably from another expert who has the authority to practice medicine but still thinks PTSD and getting triggered over dumb internet shit is the same.

>>14623751
Because it doesn't exist and the "experts" aren't wrong. It just doesn't fit your narrative so you ignore actual facts.

>>14623705
>>14623715

Like I said, I've never even seen Destiny yet, and I love that entire plot. A slow burn to see the heroes of old strive to hold onto the power they fought for.

It'd be like we actually saw how Char went from Zeta to CCA


...I'm assuming that is not the indented plot progression?

>>14623715
Actually, what was the original music for this scene? Was it even moody/foreboding?

>>14623770
I trust so much more than facts. I just don't argue against them when scientifically supported.

>>14623773
>Like I said, I've never even seen Destiny yet, and I love that entire plot.
You'll love Destiny then. It's definitely the most well-written Gundam.

>>14620391
>>14620401
>REALLY exaggerated the unlikability of characters and loathsome black on black problematic morality
But how?

>>14623817
He'd think Banagher is a psychopath for killing.

>>14623853
Most of Tomino's mains (aside from Bell and Judau) were realistic teens.

>>14623916
>Loran
>Evil

>>14623916
Hell by that logic Mamoru is evil since he let half the city destroy.

You can't hide that fact clawshitty.

>>14623928
Mamoru is no more than a cold blooded killer with magic faggot powers.

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>>14623916
>evil
>no heroes

>>14623916
>Uso, the boy who hates war and fights to protect women and children
>Loran, the space pacifist who fights to protect humankind from itself
Yes, of course, I was so blind

>>14623916

>clawshrimpy

opiniondiscarded.jpg

>>14623916
So...you don't see the irony in the fact that you chastise other people for subscribing to a strict gender binary while you yourself hold up other programs to an astonishingly stark black and white morality in which to err is unshakably evil without even the slightest room for nuance?

You don't see how that MIGHT be seen as a touch hypocritical when it's lined up alongside your other established stances in this discussion?

Not even the littlest bit?

Holy shit, when did tumblr decide to invade /m/?

>>14623944
>fights
Yep, they're evil

When you understand the jesus yamato thing.

>>14623968
Then Mamoru and Gai shall be cast into Gehenna as well.

>Mamoru is the main hero of GGG and GGGF
And that's why Gai pilots the main robot?

>bringing sjw fag shit on my safe space

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>shrimpy thread
I missed playing bingo on /m/

>You will never be retarded, ugly, gay and a pedo like Clawshrimpy is.

>>14624143
>Like I said before, that does fuck all about being the main character.
>The guy that pilots the main robot that saves the day is not the main protag.

I want tumblr to leave.

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>>14624143
>marginalized ppl terms

>An under aged kid who hasn't gone past puberty is a trans.
Uso's a trans
Kappai is a trans
The Raijinoh kids are trans
Every brave kid is a trans
The gundam AGE kids are trans.

>>14624215
>Uso's a trans
how could you even type this

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>mfw there are people out there who think Gundam Seed Destiny is anything but terrible.

>>14624244
How so? I'd say even though the Federation kind of sucks, it's better than Dictator of the Decade trying to wipe out and kill millions to promote their space master race. How is stopping that evil a bad outcome? Turn A and G-Reco proved that there will always be happy endings, even if sometimes shit gets bad for humanity.

>>14623916
Even Sei? but he's pure!

>>14624244
>no white, just black

And here's your problem.
Again, you treat morality as a pure black and white situation.
Gundam suggests such a view is simplistic and, at best childish, at worst, outright destructive.

Most of what you consider black, would for many be more likely considered grey.
It's a (comparatively) nuanced setting that doesn't believe in making its characters morally unimpeachable, because such an attitude in war is naive/irresponsible and runs tandem to the whole point the shows tend to try to make.

>>14624243
She actually is a trans when you think about it

>>14624243
How can Clawshitty be so damn retarded?

>>14624274
on a somewhat related note Rule 63 Uso is a fucking miracle and should be cherished

>>14624301
???

>>14624307
He thinks Mamoru being a trans and a good sign for the LGBT group.

>>14624320
Yeah but you quoted me. Never mind.

>>14624244
Holy shit are you for real? Saged and reported.

Japs dont even believe in transgenders anyway lol

>>14624244
>No hope for a remotively positive outcome
Well, it's a war drama. Even then, Gundams never go full edgelord with their ending.

Do you really expect them to hold hands, smiled and walked under the rainbows in Gundam's ending?

>>14624693
Literally G Gundam

>>14613379
I dropped it midway into episode 15.

>>14623777

Not at all. It was just the usual ending song and it was intercut with all the scenes of the other characters looking at peace.

>>14623921

Actually now I'm morbidly curious what he thinks makes Loran evil. He's a feminine male lead in a peace positive show, you'd think that'd tick his boxes.

>>14625307
He's just assblasted Tomino's gundam isn't all about white morality values.

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I fucking hate the term "toxic masculinity".

>>14622446
>Mamoru was the lead, especially n FINAL. Mamoru gets way more character development than Guy does
Woah man, does that mean that Loran isn't the protag of Turn A? He stays the same basically through out and he just influences the people around him.

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What even is this thread anymore?

Anyway, I personally loved Destiny. I like Shinn's 'progress' as a character. I think the scene where Athrun defects and Shinn and Rey hint him down is one of the best scenes in Gundam history. Throughout the whole battle, Rey keeps pushing Shinn to take the final shot. This can be seen by Rey never once using any of the Legends backpack weapons even though they can fired without deploying out. Rey keeps interrupting Athrun and feeds Shinn propoganda that's easier to swallow for a young person with severe stress and mental trauma issues. And the best is that Rey isn't even just 'HURR I'M EVIL" but he has a genuine friendship with Shinn (which is part of the reason why his manipulation works in the first place. He really thinks he's doing the best for the world and only wants his friend to be on his side.

Destiny is far from perfect. Kira really does frustrate me. There are many valid criticisms of his character (though the one about surviving a nuke isn't one of them as the whole scene has been disected even on /m/ and the explosion didn't even originate from the Freedom). I did like him a lot in SEED but his character is handled poorly in Destiny.

Another thing I love is Rau and Gil's friendship and how Rau's worldview negatively affected Durandal. The flashback scenes with Durandal (and the one clipshow narrated by Durandal) are excellent.

Other minor things, hmm, Impulse and Destiny are both great suits, can't say I like the conclusion with Durandal and of course, Lunamaria best girl. Can't say I have a fetish for bandages but the time she spent injured and wrapped up in bandages did things to my penis.

>>14626458
What's wrong with Kira?

>>14625759
>toxic masculinity
It's used by SJWs, numales and cucks, what do you fucking expect?

>>14620401
How is IBO "toxic"?

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Why are there so many SEEDfags?

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>>14613379
If you haven't noticed it yet, then let me congratulate you on being in the exact demographic that this panderbait of anime is targeting.

>>14623092
You're not wrong

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>>14613379
What's with the radioactive autism going on in this thread?

Is Kamille samefagging again?

>>14629228
Did you miss the part that the company they're working for is an asshole and that Mika's personality is the result of a harsh living condition?

mika is the most redpilled protag in a decade so I can see why cucks would hate him

>>14629237
Why are you responding to a tripfag spewing Tumblr bullshit?

>>14629329
>Why didn't they ever try to run away from that living condition?
Where would they go?

>Why didn't they just leave the assholes to be killed by the rival army, why did they help rescue their abusers?
They didnt try to rescue anyone. They were trying to survive the battle

>And Mika just turns into another shitty murdering edgy shithead who thinks he is high and mighty because "ideals".
Literally never happens

>>14625586

Another bump to hopefully find out why Shrimpy hates Loran and Turn-A despite them seemingly being what he's looking for before he's banned again - because I know he'll hate them.

>>14633148
He hates war story and Tomino. There, I spare you the long essay.

>>14633148
>why Shrimpy hates Loran and Turn-A
Gundam gets you prickly-wicklies... as well as punches

>>14629329
They're enslaved you fucking dumbass faggot.

>Mika turns into another murdering edgy shithead
That's because he never lived any other way.

In a way, he's like you with your social justice horseshit.

I know you're fucking there, Shrimpy. If a seemingly permaban can't stop you then nothing can.

>>14633170

I'd rather be spared your post and get it in his own words, even if they're a long nonsensical post that exposes him as a bigot like his posts in the TTGL thread frankly.

Though I do think it's funny he ignores all the people genuinely trying to help him here (and other places) and just sums /m/ up as bigots on Twitter. You'd think someone who bangs on about how people should try to be nice would be more easily able to spot or acknowledge when they are doing so.

>>14628793
cucks?

>>14633189
He's gone. Don't try to coax him back, this board is shit enough as is.

>>14633148
Turn A is full of reckless destruction and loss of life. Pretty much every character is a blundering idiot fucking up the land for no reason

>>14633215

Apparantly he got rebanned.

Shame. I was honestly getting entertained by his ramblings.

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>>14614012
>/m/'s oldfags expected Shinn to have character development like Kamille and to replace Kira as the main character.

And here we see the delusional Kira fuckshit in his natural environment.

First off, your statement comparing Shinn to Kamille doesn't even make in this context. Kamille had his own show with his own proper character arc (because at least Tomino knew what he was doing in the 80s; Fukuda and Morosawa never had any clue what they were doing at any point), but he never REPLACED Amuro. Making Shinn like Kamille for the entirety of Destiny and regulating Kira as some sort of rival or mentor would have been a positive thing for all parties involved and wouldn't have compromised Kira's standing in the long run.

But for whatever reason, you refuse to acknowledge the obvious. If it’s anything less than Kira unjustly taking over a show that isn’t his, constantly reminding you of how awesome he is and he’s so much *coooler* than everyone else, and promoting a brainless Archangel Flawless Victory while utterly squashing the possibility of letting any other characters develop or have an independent voice, then somehow it’s a betrayal to you and it’s same as killing Kira off like a chump while Lacus gets raped over a pinball machine.

Bigoted obnoxious fanboys like you are literally the cancer that killed Destiny, and basically all C.E. canon as a whole. No, seriously. Fukuda and Morosawa are the ones completely guilty of churning out this mess, but the only reason they've been able to get away with it and Sunrise continues to stand by their abysmal writing decisions to this day is because of the toxic fanbase. No other Gundam audience is this dismissive and close-minded when it comes to who should get screen time in sequels / side stories. No other Gundam audience is this insufferable.

>>14614054
That too.

>>14635687
1) Tomino has never been a competent writer or director
2) Destiny doesn't "belong" to any one character. It's about many characters, including Kira
3) There is literally no reason to dislike awesome, cool characters unless you're a whiny nu-male
4) Kira didn't "squash" any character's development. Shinn, Athrun and every other character did in fact develop and have plenty of time in the sun
5) The obnoxious fanboys are people like you demanding Zeta rehashes for no reason

>>14635750
>5) The obnoxious fanboys are people like you demanding Zeta rehashes for no reason

As opposed to someone demanding a rehash of SEED for even less of a reason, when the show just ended the previous year?

>>14635687
>First off, your statement comparing Shinn to Kamille doesn't even make in this context. Kamille had his own show with his own proper character arc (because at least Tomino knew what he was doing in the 80s; Fukuda and Morosawa never had any clue what they were doing at any point), but he never REPLACED Amuro. Making Shinn like Kamille for the entirety of Destiny and regulating Kira as some sort of rival or mentor would have been a positive thing for all parties involved and wouldn't have compromised Kira's standing in the long run.

Not to mention, this works from a business perspective. A new lead character makes a show accessible to people who didn't watch the last one, allowing the fanbase to grow and replace leaving fans. They didn't want Gundam SEED Part Deux, they want another show set in the Gundam SEED universe.

By keeping Kira and the old cast as the MCs, all Banrise would be doing is pushing potential new viewers away with continuity. The AU's were created in the first place so they could get away from this very problem with UC, and could allow the franchise to grow in new directions. It's the same reason why you sometimes have to explain how the timelines work to newcomers who believe every Gundam is connected (ignoring Turn A).

SEED's fanbase doesn't support the franchise unless Kira is involved. They didn't support Shinn, they didn't support Astray, they didn't support Stargazer (no MG ever). Ratings for Destiny were between 1-2% lower from SEED and the SEEDfans weren't buying Gunpla. Just CDs and DVDs according to Bandai's former president. Accessibility be damned, they don't care. And when they were footing a rather impressive bill for Destiny, it was only a matter of time before they moved onto a new timeline.

That's why they weren't going to do a third series or more OVAs. The movie was one last attempt at pandering and it still didn't go through. Bandai has no problem funding games that give the finger to Kira either.

>>14613379
Final episode

>>14635808
>By keeping Kira and the old cast as the MCs, all Banrise would be doing is pushing potential new viewers away with continuity

I don't think the constant flashbacks made that a problem really.

Plus it's not like the show instantly started with Kira as the lead. He didn't show up until about 10 episodes in, didn't start actually appearing in almost every episode until 20 episodes in, and didn't start actually getting more screentime than Shinn until the final arc.

They had plenty of time to get to know Shinn.

>>14614276
Is this fanart? That Bikini doesn't make any sense...

>>14636879
>They had plenty of time to get to know Shinn.

Which instead, they mostly focused on Athrun and Cagalli. Despite being top-billed and being front and center for all the promotional materials, he was a side character in his own show right from the beginning.

>>14635687

Some shows are only popular because of the leads, and not for anything in the actual plot or story. See Code Geass. Also see the many failures that bombed because the main character wasn't ridiculously beloved when they were banking on it.

Seed was one of those. They geniunly gave Shinn a decent quarter of the series before Kira really took over and it didn't click.

Now you could be thinking Shinn didn't have enough time to develop and was competing with Athrun for screentime so of course they'd never like him as much as Kira. But guess what, that wasn't a problem for Kira in Seed proper. The fans latched onto him almost instantly. The probably thought the same would happen with Shinn, and people would just like him because he was pretty and the lead. And when it didn't work they fell back on Kira.

Maybe Fukuda and Morosawa could have done a better job endearing Shinn. Giving him a popular Seiyu instead of the at the time rookie Suzumura might have helped since Seiyuu built in fanbases are a thing (And sure enough people are willing to give Shinn a chance now because Suzumura is popular) and having him start out hating the popular characters from Seed probably wasn't a smart move.

But I feel like even Fukuda and Morosawa had no idea why Kira and Lacus were as popular as they are (and if they did they were wrong) and couldn't make lightning strike twice if they tried.

>>14636900

See above. He piloted the main Gundam. That was all it took for Kira to be the most popular character in Japan. They thought the same thing would happen, and when it didn't they just fell back on the characters that did.

Fukuda and Morosawa didn't know how to sell characters to the audience. It just happened with the main 4 of Seed that they were unusually popular without any effort on the part of the staff.

>>14636895
It's magic.

>>14636895
Sure it does. Double sided tape exists.

>>14636909
Considering the overwhelming evidence of Fukuda and Morosawa hijacking things because they put way too much of themselves in Kira and Lacus, I really have to wonder how the second half of the show would have turned out if the Minerva crew took off in popularity and toys of the ZAFT/Extended Gundams blew away all of Bandai's expectations.

Would Fukuda have realized his folly and actually back off his self-worship a little bit? Would he became a pain in Bandai's ass and still be gunning for the Kira takeover? Would they have been forced to change directors? Would Cross Ange still be a thing 10 years later?

>>14638156

Fukuda above all else bowed to Bandai.

If they put their foot down, he'd have backed off. Morosawa might be unhappy, but Fukuda followed his cooperate overlords.

However since nobody liked Shinn and the fanbase was actively clamouring for Kira, they made no effort to stop him. If anything they encouraged him.

>>14638156
From the sounds of it, Fukuda was already a pain in their ass. Remember how that animation director complained on his blog about how Morosawa was handing in scripts? Fukuda's version of events goes it was actually him and the producers fighting, mostly over series quality vs. keeping things on schedule. Hell, they probably wanted him to actually focus on Shinn when his wife was focusing on the old cast right from the beginning.

The fact is, Destiny was made to try and appease the UC fanbase. You wonder why leading into the show they kept saying stuff like "it's going to be more serious, more somber"? Because the older Gundam fanbase called SEED too kiddie. That's why. And when Fukuda ran his mouth off about how he wanted to make Gundam like a super robot show and his attitude could be summed up as "who cares if it's serious? It's just anime", you know the Gundam fanbase were out for his blood.

Changing directors, btw, would probably have caused too much of a scandal. They have enough issue replacing VAs. They knew SEED was done so they didn't give a shit anymore.

>>14638782

I find that hard to believe only because, from what I can tell, UC fans never even gave Destiny a chance anyway.

By and large the Japanese Destiny fanbase was the same people that had just watched Seed (not shocking since it was only a year between shows) that didn't care for Shinn and were clamoring for Kira and Lacus to return from the start (putting them in the OP was probably not the best idea because they knew they were coming) And even after 20 episodes of Shinn with minimal interference from Kira, still didn't care for him one bit.

The UC Gunota's meanwhile don't seem to give anything that isn't UC a chance. They're the ones that went gaga for Unicorn because Zeon was involved and it mentioned the One Year War, yet turn their nose up at late UC stuff. Only UC Zeon will make them happy.

>>14638814
I can't tell if you're trolling or delusional.

You honestly believe Bandai wouldn't try to get back into the good books of the guys who eat up their plastic crack? You serious? And if you think how Shinn was presented in his own show even compared to Kira's focus in the first 20 episodes of SEED then you're beyond help. SEED actually spent time with Kira right from the beginning, and focused on his emotional state. Destiny didn't even do that, it just focused on Athrun and Cagalli right off the bat before the focus was split up again for Kira.

>>14638852

I'm sure they tried, I just don't think it worked. From what I can see none of the UC fanbase gave Destiny a chance, no matter how they marketed it to them.

>>14638852
>And if you think how Shinn was presented in his own show even compared to Kira's focus in the first 20 episodes of SEED then you're beyond help. SEED actually spent time with Kira right from the beginning, and focused on his emotional state

See above. Yes it focused on Kira better, (because Seed in general is much more coherently written than Destiny) but that didn't matter. Kirafags didn't like him because of the first 20 episodes of development and the focus on his emotional state. They liked him almost the instant they saw him, for seemingly no reason beyond his look VA and apparant outward personality. It took no effort to sell Kira to his fans.

So really Fukuda just went full lazy more than anything, assuming people would like Shinn just because. Same reason he went with all the stock footage. Freedom was topping the MS popularity charts and selling Gunpla like crazy despite mostly using the same animation frames over and over, so clearly it would work with any main MS. And in Strike Freedom's case it did, it was ranking top in polls long before it even appear in show when it only existed in Lineart form.

It really wasn't Fukuda deliberately trying to tank Shinn for his self insert or anything like that (I honestly don't think Fukuda self inserts as Kira considering he was initially kind of a whiny punk). He was just lazy, and figured that since Seed stuff was unusally popular with no effort from him whatsoever, he could do it again, and when it failed he fell back on Kira again.

>>14638911
>because Seed in general is much more coherently written than Destiny

You're trying to make the argument that SEED became super popular with no real effort but then you're admitting SEED had more genuine effort put into it than Destiny. It's weird.

>I honestly don't think Fukuda self inserts as Kira considering he was initially kind of a whiny punk

Initially. By the end of the show he's the unchallenged Messiah of mankind; everyone else either loves him, parrots everything he says, or are brushed aside as big stupid meany villains just because they don't agree with him.

Combine this with the fact Fukuda tries to retroactively make Kira look pure and flawless in those earlier instances, like changing the context of Nicol's death.

>>14613379
Seems like I'm the minority here. I started hating the show after about 5 episodes and it only became bearable after Jesus showed up. Then it again went to shit in the last couple episodes.

Yeah I hate Shinn. Too fucking irritating. His role was interesting, his personality was horrible.

>>14636909
>Now you could be thinking Shinn didn't have enough time to develop and was competing with Athrun for screentime so of course they'd never like him as much as Kira. But guess what, that wasn't a problem for Kira in Seed proper.

But Kira never had to deal with that in the original SEED. The first half of the show would bounce back and forth between him and Athrun's crew, but there was never any doubt that he was the central character the audience relates to.

From nearly the moment Destiny starts, Shinn is struggling in the shadow of Athrun and Cagalli, and then Kira, and even Yzak and Dearka at times. The SEED equivalent of this would be if the first 10 episodes focused on Kira, but then Amuro suddenly shows up and steadily invades the show so you're reminded how awesome he was in MSG and how much cooler UC is than SEED. You're sabotaging your own storyline and denying your new lead the ability to grow and develop when you do that shit.

>>14639158
>You're trying to make the argument that SEED became super popular with no real effort but then you're admitting SEED had more genuine effort put into it than Destiny. It's weird.

Seed did have more effort put into it, but only because it has proper preproduction (unlike Destiny which was rushed ASAP)

By Destiny they figured they could get away with anything, and so they just tossed Shinn out expecting him to be popular because, and when it wasn't working (20 episodes in) they brought Kira back.

I'm just saying there wasn't a deliberate attempt to sink Shinn so Fukuda could use Kira again. They gave him a shot, as best they knew how, but it didn't work again, and Fukuda was putting less effort into it because he didn't need to try with Seed and thought he could cut corners.

>>14639195
>By Destiny they figured they could get away with anything, and so they just tossed Shinn out expecting him to be popular because, and when it wasn't working (20 episodes in) they brought Kira back.

In what manner of fiction, especially when your writing space is limited is abandoning your main character ever a good idea?
You're not replacing a "Bad character" with a good one, you're diluting the both of them.

>>14639178

The idea seems to be "Shinn pilots the lead Gundam. Therefore people will like him." and is backed by the fact that Kira was topping polls when he'd barely done anything yet and Cagalli and Lacus had only showed up in 2 episodes each and were topping the Gundam females polls already, therefore CE lead characters are instantly popular and we don't have to worry about developing Shinn.

The fact that Kira actually got episodes to himself and Shinn didn't didn't actually seem to affect their popularity in any way because people instantly liked Kira and instantly disliked Shinn, without factoring anything that actually happened in show.

>>14635687
>Sunrise continues to stand by their abysmal writing decisions to this day is because of the toxic fanbas
I always felt like Sunrise is trying to run back the 'Kira's the main character!' thing, now that Shinn's voice actor is fucking popular.
When I saw that cover for the Remaster with Destiny Gundam standing in fire making some cool pose, I fucking laughed. It's a bit too late to run it back now. gang.

Destiny Gundam doesn't have a cool fight in the entire series.

>>14639209

You don't seem to understand just what a clusterfuck Destiny was. And I'm not talking about Fukuda's BS behinds the scenes. That's a whole other issue.

The main thing was Bandai going "Keep the money flowing! Keep the money flowing! Throw whatever shit you need to but keep the CE money flowing!" They didn't care about writing or a coherent story. Gundam had finally gotten big and touched a new fanbase and they didn't want that to stop so they were desperate for CE something, anything, and when Shinn wasn't working they tossed Kira back.

Of course the story was weaker than Seeds. Why wouldn't it be when they barely had any preproduction time because they wanted it back on tv ASAP.

Eventually they clued in that people only liked Kira not Gundam itself and it wasn't sustainable the way they wanted, selling Gunpla, which is why they let CE fizzle out after Destiny. But at that time they were throwing anything out to keep CE money flowing.

Bandai is greedy as shit. You can see how they're still desperately trying to bleed more blood out of the Unicorn stone.

>>14639228
It's actually worse when you watch the remaster itself. Destiny Gundam is completely removed from the final episode via splitting Final Plus into a 2-parter.

>>14639238
>Eventually they clued in that people only liked Kira not Gundam itself and it wasn't sustainable the way they wanted

Okay, but they're the ones who allowed the show to end on the insane notion that Kira and Lacus are living gods, everyone else either worships them or are villains, and no one else is ever allowed to be relevant. How the fuck WOULD that be sustainable? It's a load of horseshit that only exists to make Fukuda and Morosawa happy.

ugh. I guess this is like SEED version of the chicken or egg argument.

>>14639265

I assume by then Bandai didn't care. They'd probably given up on having Seed be their new long running cashcow by episode 40 something of Destiny.

Fukuda nearly losing the timeslot by having nothing to air that week repeatedly probably didn't help their confidence in it either.

>>14639287

The decision to put Kira back in the spotlight would have happened way before the Freedom/Impulse battle happened, which coincidentally would probably been the same time they would be questioning a third series. My guess Stargazer was the canary in the coalmine. If it worked, then the problem with Destiny was because of people not liking Shinn specifically. If it didn't, then it's the fanbase rejecting anyone not Kira/Lacus.

The sad part was after Stargazer they talked like there would be more OVAs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAng6_0bel0