ITT: Shows that really weren't as bad as /m/ told you they were

>>14548614
No, it was worse.

>>14548614
Both SEED and SEED Destiny are mediocre, really. It's that SEED Destiny is just overall worse than SEED, but still pretty mediocre and forgettable.

Goddamn, but did the behind the scenes stories make it seem like production was a mess. Definitely reflected in Destiny.

>>14548614
This was the only good thing about Destiny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i8F2jZq_NA

>>14548874
I found that the first 13 episodes surpassed anything in Seed, then it dropped down to the same level til the Impulse/Freedom fight and then dropped down to shit after that.

>>14549617

I could find myself agreeing with this one pretty easily were it not for some memers who praise this show as a masterpiece to shitpost on Zeta more. It was a 5/10 rather than a 3/10 like I was expecting.

>>14549616
This, the first episodes of Destiny were actually good. Reminds me on how the third arc of AGE dropped the ball super hard.

>>14548977
Fucking Kira and Athrun carp. Shinn is where it's at.

You have to realize, OP and other faggots, that on the internet everything is exaggerated. When people say on 4chinz that something is mind-meltingly awful shit, they don't mean it's actually so bad it's intolerable. They just mean it's stupid garbage.

SEED/SEED Destiny are not so bad that the average person can't stand to watch them. And, once the series is over and you can just binge watch it over the course of two to three days, it's even more tolerable, kind of like ripping off a Band-Aid in one go.

But at the end of the day, it's a bad show, filled with flat and/or retarded characters, shitty plot developments, cartoonish villains, horrible animation, laughable action, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on.

So the only reason it's "not as bad as /m/ said" is because /m/ uses hyperbole. But that shit is still shit.

Also, in my experience /m/'s standards are so low you've got people on /m/ who believe things like Build Fighters Try and Gundam AGE were good, so what /m/ thinks should be taken with a grain of salt.

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>>14548614
Let me guess, you watched the HD remaster? While it's indeed the best "version" of Destiny available today, it's doesn't accurately represent how the show was originally released (or give you an idea of why it's so hated among the Gundam fanbase).

For example, a lot of the original series animation was plagued with QUALITY, so much so that even stock footage was poorly implemented (see webm). The ending of the show was also completely different to what you see in the HD remaster. Some key differences:
>Athrun does not enter Messiah with Kira to confront Durandal
>Athrun does not rescue Shinn and Luna; they are left STRANDED ON THE MOON
>There is no epilogue; The final shot is a hero pose from Kira and his superfriends before cutting to a series montage

Literally everything that could have gone wrong with the series, did. And it took nearly a decade of revisionist history from Fukuda and Sunrise to TRY and cover up its stain on the franchise.

>>14549787
>Athrun does not rescue Shinn and Luna; they are left STRANDED ON THE MOON
Now he does? Seems like they took notes from Super Robot Wars.

Everything I hear about SEED makes me want to watch it less and less.

>>14549811
SEED itself is actually a pretty decent, self-contained Gundam story (I personally liked it, despite its flaws). It's Destiny that took every ounce of quality and goodwill that series had and flushed it down the toilet, and in the process retroactively making the original series look WORSE.

>>14549787

What stain on the franchise? It's still one of the best selling shows in the franchise, the only AU to get a sequel tv show (Build Fighters is less of an AU and more of a side show like the SDs) and several of it's models have always been popular. Yea, it's a shitty show, but that doesn't mean Banrise think it's some kind of stain. If Fukuda was changing it, it's because of reaction from fans of the show and his own desire to change it most likely, not because of complaint from people who don't even like the show.

>>14549846
I can't say for everyone but it soured myself (and nearly everyone I know) on the Gundam franchise for a long time, including those that liked SEED. I've since moved on from Destiny and can now appreciate certain aspects of the show (like MS design) separate from the show itself, but it still doesn't fully erase my memory of crushing disappointment from having watched it when it aired.

From a pure merchandising standpoint, I can see why Destiny was (and remains) such a big success but the designs and music are literally all it has going for it.

>>14549811

SEED was actually an okay show- until Kira gets the Freedom Gundam. From the point onward it is a downhill slide.

To make matters worse, all of Fukuda's meddling in future do-overs to make Kira a perfect angel who dindu nuffin only served to make people even more fucking bitter about the show.

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Patlabor 2.

But I know /m/ has a irrational hatred of Oshii.

>>14549941
>irrational

No, the hatred of Oshii is because he just sucks the fun out of everything he touches and blankets it in his pretentious pseudo-intellectual DEEP and brooding storytelling style, which sometimes works like with GiTS, and sometimes blows up all over the runway and leaves you frustrated and bored, like GiTS: Innocence.

Patlabor 2 is loved by casual viewers who like to think that even though they are weebs, they're superior and mature weebs. And as a movie, it's a solid movie. But it's not Patlabor. That's why /m/ doesn't like Patlabor The Movie 2.

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I'm so fucking jaded with Destiny that whenever somebody brings it up it's usually for laughs. SRW helped a lot with this, to me Shinn is more like a Fafner character now.

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>>14549949
This, couldn't have said it better myself.

>>14549949

The only thing I'll have to disagree with is that Patlabor 2 was an extremely mediocre political thriller wannabe film. Even when judged independently from the Patlabor franchise.

>>14549787
>Athrun does not enter Messiah with Kira to confront Durandal

I preferred this, Athrun's deal was with Shinn, Kira's deal was with Durandal.

>>14549949
Not gonna lie, I do consider myself superior to people who watch KyoAni.

As for Patlabor 2 it's a political thriller but the first movie encapsulates the show much better.

>>14549941
Legitimate masterpiece that /m/ hates because every cartoon needs to be happy funtime. Anything that attempts to be serious and meaningful and pulls it off, rightly receiving praise for doing so, is cast aside because "le pseudo intellectual 2DEEP4U". Which is funny, because if you came off Patlabor 2 with the conclusion that it was "2deep4u" then yes, it really was too deep for you to understand.

>>14549909
>>14549834
So SEED is 'fine', but avoid Destiny like it's the plague.
Got it.

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This was pretty fun. A shame it will never get a second season focusing on the Mars Division; both of the "good guys" and the "bad guys"; notably, the penguin force having more fapbait while the good guys have more hotblooded bros.

>>14548614
I agree that Seed Destiny wasn't any near how bad everyone told me it was. I mean there's still Wing and 00 S2 that were the same tier as Destiny, yet everyone praises them as some masterpieces.

>>14549941
No, we have a rational, well-balanced, justified and legitimate hatred of Oshii.

>>14550361

I don't think anyone on /m/ has ever said Daimdaler is shit terrible. People have said Daimdaler itself looks like shit, but the show is considered good retarded fun.

>>14550229
>Kyoani
Yeah, most of their shit sucks, but I'll fight you if you think their FMP stuff was bad

>>14550376
I thought it was pretty terrible. It was way too repetitive, and not in a good way. The entire cast was pretty unlikable except for those funny penguin bastards. Didn't have much fun with it.

>>14550389

I had fun with it. It reminded me of those extremely dumb 80s OVAs.

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>>14550376
The regular Daimidaler looks like shit but type 6 is cool as fuck

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Might have had to do with how I didn't need to wait a week between each episode though.

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It's dumb as fuck, but I was entertained all the way through.

>>14550414
I was quite impressed that Ange managed to damage the commander's robo arm with her anus.

>>14549909
Kira was the only good part of the show. There, I said it. I enjoyed watching Kira take over Destiny later and turning Shinn into the main antagonist.

No AU has ever been good and SEED is one of the worst.

>>14550529

00?
G Gundam?
Stargazer?
Thunderbolt?

>>14550538
G Gundam is fun at points and especially towards the end, but people tend to forget that 70% of it is boring formulaic shit. Also even when it's fun I would hesitate to actually call it good.

The rest of those are trash.

>>14550543

Most of UC Gundam is formulaic, boring shit too.

>>14550546
True, but mostly just late UC and some of the early UC side stories.

>>14550543
But the thing is when G Gundam is good its really good, plus while it does get formulaic it still has good characters and some variety in the mechs which makes it still interesting

>>14550538
>further proving his point

Nice going

>>14550558
G Gundam and Turn A are the two AUs that I won't argue very strongly against even though I don't consider them to be particularly great myself. There are elements that work and they stand on their own two feet, but I don't personally rate them highly.

The rest is just rotten though.

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>>14548977
God I can not stand the how the Gundam in seed are drawn. This heinous way where the proportions are completely wrong in every fucking shot.

What I do not understand is that the two mini episodes Astray and Stargazer do not have these problems.

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>>14550529
>G, X, Turn A, Stargazer and 00
>bad
I forgot it's summer

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>>14550830
>AUs
>Good

Underage please.

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>>14549802

That already happened in FINAL PLUS to (broadcasted on Christmas Day in 2005 no less) actually give the show a conclusion , which was a few months after FLAWLESS VICTORY happened and /m/ imploded

>>14548614
I know, it was even worse.

>>14550880
>muh UC
I'd rather watch Turn-A than Zeta and X over ZZ.

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>>14549787
Don't forget the completely flawless victory. The only mobile suits that get blown up are ZAFTs, and the small small small small part of the EA that joined up at the end if you actually remember that detail. In the re-editions, they decided to add scenes of Dearka and Cyclops's mobile suits losing limbs, like we gave a fucking shit.
>Literally everything that could have gone wrong with the series, did. And it took nearly a decade of revisionist history from Fukuda and Sunrise to TRY and cover up its stain on the franchise.

And that's why when the remaster came out and this picture came out, I laughed.
I mean, don't get me wrong. It's a pretty cool picture. But the fact of the matter is that Destiny doesn't really get to do anything even half as cool in the series.
It's a little too late in the day to try and pretend like you cared about who was the main character now that Kenichi is popular and people are calling you out on fucking it up.

>>14551122
We all had our favorites growing up, but trust me, you'll come around eventually.

>>14551151
*tip*

>>14549617
>Moon
>Moon

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This was bad, but nowhere near as bad as /m/ said it'd be. That said, I do wish it had more of a budget and a sequel, if not a proper remake that's a bit closer to the concept art, such as the launch hangar doors being in the center of the women's bath.

>>14551227
It got a Kickstarter to redo it all in 3-D, but never got enough funding anyway.

>>14550398
>The regular Daimidaler looks like shit

And that's exactly why I love it so much.
It's like in that Simpsons Movie trailer: in a world where everyone creates overly elaborate, complex and flashy CGI robots this one dares to be deliberately ugly, making it stand out from the crowd of interchangable run of the mill bots.

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I have come to accept that the majority of /m/ posters have shit taste and know nothing about narrative or characters. Attempts at critical discussions of shows here tend to demonstrate that /m/ doesn't understand writing for shit. /m/ just likes to pretend that the issue is with the story to not seem childish or something when actually they're really just upset about the robots.

What they say:
>The characters felt lacking in depth and the villains motivations seem incoherent at best, ultimately the attempt at critiquing post WW2 Japan fails due to a misunderstanding of the economic situation at the time.
What they really mean:
>There's not enough robots! The robots aren't awesome enough! The robots don't fight every episode! These robots don't transform!

>>14551279
>What they really mean:
>>There's not enough robots! The robots aren't awesome enough! The robots don't fight every episode! These robots don't transform!

What's wrong with those complaints?

>>14551293
Nothing, just be honest about it and don't pretend something is badly written if it isn't and you just want more cool robots.

>>14551279
It's so obvious with IBO in that's it's really not any worse than the popular AU"s yet it's hated as much as Destiny.

>>14551225
You best respect da Moon Moon.
It was the prototype for Turn A's story
>twins whose boyfriends can't tell apart
>neo-primitive tribal culture built in old high-tech facility
>statue involved in local rituals is actually a mobile suit
>we want to spread our pacifist ways of not repeating the mistakes of the tech-hungry past

>>14551298

I just thought Gargantia was boring and the characters were unmemorable.

>>14551307

IBO is shit because it's boring.

>>14551298
>and don't pretend something is badly written

Wait... Destiny has nothing to do with this, right?

>>14551310
See Gargantia is extremely well written and IBO is not very well written, but the fact that you just describe them both as "boring" just makes it seem like your ultimate issue with them is "NEEDS MOAR ROBUTTS". Which sure, there's less mecha action than many other shows.

But the quantity of mech fights has no bearing on the quality of a show. If you prefer shows with more mecha action that's okay and you can go watch them, but shitting on shows that use it more sparingly is frankly a shitty attitude.

Not every /m/ show needs to be all out non-stop mech wars. Sometimes it's just part of a larger picture.

>>14551329

I found Gargantia boring and its characters unmemorable, but it wasn't shit.

IBO, though, is boring AND shit.

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>>14551341
Fair enough. We cool.

Gargantia was dope though

>>14551329
>Turn A doesn't have enough robots
>it's not a problem

>IBO doesn't have enough robots
>it's a problem

>Voltron Reboot doesn't have enough robots
>it's not a problem

>Shin Mazinger doesn't have enough robots
>it's a problem

Make up your mind already, motherfuckers.

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>>14551279
Because it shares a lot of story elements that Fafner has but uses them far worse.

I didn't hate this show because of the lack of robots.
I hated this show when it started preaching how murdering pilots was bad and you're bad and you're a monster and how dare you they dindunuffin.

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Gen 3 was fine

>>14551358
>Turn A does something with itself when it's not about robot battles and the battles that happen look good
>IBO doesn't do either
nice try, okada and nagai

>>14551329
Boring can mean a lot of things

For example, I find the Mazinkaiser OVA to be pretty boring despite it being almost nothing but a series of excuses for mecha action. And that's precisely why it's boring; there's nothing more to it and the fights themselves aren't really creative or interesting enough to keep me invested.

Meanwhile, I'm almost positive that I think the first season of Rayearth was better than the second despite the robots only appearing at the very end. It just had more nuance to it, and I felt like there wasn't as much stating the obvious/repeating things I already know

These are judgments that have to be made on a show by show basis.

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>>14551362
>I hated this show when it started preaching how murdering pilots was bad and you're bad and you're a monster and how dare you they dindunuffin.
Way to completely miss the point of the issue in that episode, it never preached that message. The whole issue there was the disproportionate use of force and ensuing escalation in retaliation.

>>14549628
I thought it was a 7, and the weakest of the original trilogy of early UC Gundam TV series, at times it felt like a strong follow up to Zeta, which i thought was even better than the already excellent 0079, but the pacing and progression of ZZ could be a real slog at times.
Despite the bullshit people say about Zeta having a bad middle stretch and too many skirmishes, i always felt the opposite and consider it the easiest Gundam to marathon through.

>>14551387
>Missed the point
You sound like a G-Reco fan.

I got what they were trying to say. I didn't agree with it. Pirates are scum and deserve no mercy. There would be no problem if they'd all been fried. The people of Gargantia went to Kio of Gundam Age levels of obnoxious lengths to defend people attacking them at the cost of friends and family.

Just because I don't like the message doesn't mean I didn't get it.

>>14551398
You don't realpolitick very well do you?

>>14551398
>You sound like a G-Reco fan.
No, G-Reco fans go "oh you just failed to grasp the subtle subtext of this intricate and complex narrative". They're talking about peoples inability to grasp the deeper meaning or some shit.

I'm stating that you fundamentally misunderstood the events that took place in the episode and why the characters were upset. I'm not talking about meaning or interpretation, I'm saying that you didn't pay attention to what actually happened in the episode.

>>14551415
>I'm not a G-Reco fan, G-Reco fans talk like this
>Now watch as I talk like a G-Reco fan about Gargantia

>>14551413
No, because in the end Gargantia ends their nonaggression bullshit and joins the fight against the Squidhunters and Stryker.

They didn't stick to their guns.

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>>14550368

>>14551225
Some of the funniest episodes

>>14551426
>Gargantia ends their nonaggression bullshit
They never had non-aggression bullshit. They are always armed and ready to fight. Did you even watch the show? Because your two complaints so far are factual inaccuracies.

>>14550822
Because Astray and Stargazer are the only things of any worth in CE

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>>14551439
>Any worth
>Anything CE

>>14551436
>They get upset that Chamber wiped out the pirates in episode 2 and force him to fight without his weapons and such in episode 3 because of their insane philosophy

>At the end of the series they stop caring and go all out against the squidhunters and Stryker because it's the end of the series and they need a big climatic battle.

They only cared about escalation against the Pirates. They didn't care about escalation against the crazy cultists and their God Machine. They were so afraid of the Pirates coming back and the repercussions that would follow back in episode 3 that they neutered themselves, but at the end of the series when faced with the fact that if Ledo and Chamber lost they would be at the mercy of Stryker, they weren't afraid to stick their noses in.

I might have actually liked the series if the Gargantia people had basically refused to join in that conflict just because at least they'd be remaining consistent.

People don't dislike Garagantia because it's not got mecha action. People dislike Gargantia because it's an infantile show that only got popular because a director whose popular name was slapped on it.

It's not deep. It didn't tell an interesting story. It's plot was boring and bland. Get over your fucking self

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>>14551448
Well Astray is stupid enough to be good and Stargazer is just great all together

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>>14551463
>Makes up a version of the show that doesn't exist and then proceeds to criticize that instead.

Your claims about the story are factually wrong. If you want to actually discuss the show perhaps watch it again so that you're capable of discussing it.

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>>14551472
If I am wrong why did you not refute my points? If I clearly didn't watch the show it should be easy. I can easily point out where people didn't watch stuff like GaoGaiGar, Fafner, or Dai Guard, so you should easily be able to point out why it's clear I didn't want Gargantia

I'm sorry you like a trash show. I'm also sorry that it was force fed into Super Robot Wars Z3 where it didn't deserve to be because of people like you.

>>14551479
Because I can't refute a version of events that never happened beyond explaining that they never happened. Here is an argument of equivalent wrongness.

>0079 was a shit show to me because of Amuro's insane beliefs. When he chose to leave White Base after Bright insulted his religion it was really jarring to me. It was so consistent with his character and his religious views never came up again. Terrible writing.
This never happened and therefore can't really be refuted beyond explaining that it never happened.

Gargantia was never non-aggressive pacifists. They were armed and militarized. They never defended attackers even at the cost of friends and family, they were prepared to kill attackers to protect their friends and family. The show never preached that killing enemy pilots was bad and that it made you a monster, it simply never made that argument at any point.

You are wrong about the show. You don't know what happens in it. You don't understand character motivations. You probably haven't watched it. You are simply wrong about the events of the show.

There's no argument to refute because your argument is based on a false premise. You are simply wrong.

>>14551448
Stargazer and the first quarter of Destiny are pretty great. CE as a setting is full of potential, it was just spectacularly mishandled.

I'd love another Seed series if it were handled by the same team behind Stargazer.

>>14551525
It's potential is just UC since CE is just UC done badly.

>>14551531
>just UC done badly.
All AUs in a nutshell.

>>14551531
It's really not and you're doing a disservice to both continuities by insisting such horseshit.

>>14551549
>AW
>AD
>FC
>trying to be UC
They have some parralels like space colonies and mobile suits; the bare minimum necessary to make calling the series "Gundam" worthwhile but that's about it.

>>14551279
I, for one, have always hated it because of SoL shit and waifu shit.
I didn't really connect with anyone.
But damn, seeing it in SRW made me salty as shit.

>>14551594
I like Gargantia, but getting shoved in the finale instead of any other of the returning shows pissed me off

>>14550229
>I do consider myself superior to people who watch KyoAni.
Lol

>>14548614
Great Dangaioh, I expected garbage and got something better than the first

>>14551279
I'd consider Gargantia a pretty nice little show if it wasn't for how everyone jumped down Ledo's throat for zapping a few dudes who were about to rape several of the Gargantia's women. That's absolutely asinine, especially when the Gargantians themselves are SHOOTING at the pirates with GUNS the very next episode.

>>14551387
>>14551398
>>14551463

I'm >>14551972. Where did you guys the the whole "worried about escalating conflict with the pirates" stuff from? That sure as hell wasn't in the show. That's not a bad reason for them to get mad at Ledo at all, but that's never stated in the show itself. They were upset at the fact that Ledo killed the pirates in self-defense. There's that whole scene later in the ep. with Amy walking and talking with Ledo, telling him how killing is bad.

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Maybe Dancouga Nova and Great Dangaioh was better than I expected, though I genuinely like Nova.

>>14551972
They initially didn't want to kill the pirates because they knew it would lead to more fighting, Ledo pretty much forces them into the next episode's situation because of his actions

>>14552004
Cept it is stated in the show

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Aside from Katz, I loved Zeta

>>14552031
>>14552037
Where? If it actually is, please show me. Prove me wrong.

Anyway, assuming that y'all're right, I still think it's really shitty to not even thank the guy from saving some women from imminent rape, and absolutely moronic to not use him to end their problem with these pirates permanently.

>>14552116
literally in the same episode

>>14552138
SHOW ME

>>14552150
You could you know, just watch the episode he's talking about

>>14552175
He's the one arguing that this event happen. I don't have the time to go back and watch it. If he remembers this part, it shouldn't be too difficult for him to find it.

>>14551373
I'll bite,for a kid's show gundam age was pretty decent and might actually be a bit above average when compared to other shows of its caliber like pokemon, transformers, Yu gi oh, and lbx.
However in my opinion gundam fans raised their expectations too high.
A lot of the bashing age got was from it's final arc where it became really preachy about peace and kio was acting dumb.
However I think a lot of this game from the fact that because age was a kid's show they went the cheap route of showing children war is bad by using the most obvious and simple way they could.
This however caused many to criticize it because of how pushing this theme really fucked over characterization,plot and other stuff in the final arc by having jarring eventss occur for the sake of peace.
Also AGE was just as shameless with its advertising as the other shows IIentioned above, if not worse.

Tl;dr >>14551531
At the end of the day AGE was a kid's show and should be treated as such

>>14551531
I'll be the first one to say this, but had it been handled well the CE's lore and world could've surpassed the UC.

>>14552624
>At the end of the day AGE was a kid's show and should be treated as such

It's always irritating that people will give trash a pass because "it's a kid show". No wonder why the kids that are growing up now have such shit taste, they've been raised on it.

>>14552524
>I don't have the time to go back and watch it
Sounds like you just don't want to

>>14552624
>At the end of the day AGE was a kid's show
0079 was a kid's show.

>>14552928
>>14552950

This. It doesn't matter if it's for kids. Shit is shit.

Even back when we were kids we knew Transformers was a cartoon meant to sell toys. But Transformers managed to be more than a hollow toy commercial. That's why people are still nostalgic about Transformers, to this day. That's why Transformers endures, and not shit like Go-Bots.

>>14552964
>That's why Transformers endures, and not shit like Go-Bots.
That and even the worse quality episodes of that series are still better than Go-Bot's BS.

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/m/ never told me anything about Gravion in particular, but it did keep telling me that Obari is a shit director. I'm very disappointed in /m/.

>>14552628
I don't know if it would've surpassed UC, but it certainly might've stood even with it. The whale stone, the whole thing with Naturals vs. Coordinators... CE had a lot of great concepts that were unfortunately never taken to their full potential. A

>>14552944
Why would I want to rewatch the moment that ruined an otherwise OK show for me?

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>>14551373
AGE in general wasn't as shit as some made it out to be.

>>14551373
I'm probably one of the few people that likes AGE here
No, it wasn't.

Anything relating to Kio swiftly dipped in quality

>>14553306
Your WEG is...actually about on par with /m/'s usual throughline on Gravion.
Mech's alright, but mostly it's hyping up Sandman.

>>14552950
JAPANESE kids.

Not American ones. An important distinction.

You don't see depressing things in American cartoons.

When I was a kid my parents had me watch Scandinavian kid shows and movies. Those tackled issues like abuse, bullying, suicide and death on a weekly basis to remind children that they're not special snowflakes and that life is shit. You need to prepare children for the real world after all.

Gundam is very good at this too.

>>14554391

Yeah, you missed his point, guy. Which is that AGE is shit and saying "it's a kid's show" doesn't hold water. Don't know why you felt the need to ramble about how 0079 is Japanese. AGE is Japanese too and has war and death. Doesn't have anything to do with its lack of quality.

>>14553557
I really liked the design and fight scenes for Gravion, especially with the first season. Some pretty creative stuff there. It was just held back by lackluster animation with hit flashes all over the place. That's the one thing about Obari's animation I don't like. Things never hit other things.

I still have no idea how people pretend that AGE (especially gen 3) is better than SEED (not including Destiny)

>>14549941
This works only if you have knowledge of the post ww2 political landscape of Japan and Patlabor.

Insufferable normies (who pick up Turn A early on just some fag told it's good told it's best) who pick this up without knowing anything prior about patlabor just because Muh Oshii is what pisses me off.

>>14550414
But how it's misogynist when she is not oppressed by men.

>>14555131

If a woman suffers it's misogynist.

>>14555131
Don't expect these people to know what they're talking about. It wasn't even actual rape; it was a forceful cavity search.

Though I'm sure Zola would have loved to get a piece of Ange