What is the mecha equivalent of Berserk? Or is there nothing

greco.

gurren lagen

Mazinkaiser SKL

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>Guts
>spends most of the time on a ship

>>14548026
>ship
You mean a boat?

>>14548005
Getter Robo?

Ideon

Getter, if anything for the monsters.
Late Ishikawa did them better desu
But Berserk art is amazing nonetheless

>>14548005
Getter Robo

>>14548005
Some say it's Sidonia. Some say it's FSS. Some say it's The Origin. Some say it's Getter Robo G.

I really can't say, though. Berserk's insane.

Metal Gear, easily. It's missing the monsters, but most of the rest is all there.

>>14548381
it just shows us the real monsters are humans like us

>except for liquid. liquid is just an arm

Whether we're holding up works parallel to the pure insanity of Berserk, or the scope, vision and execution, I don't think anything that's strictly mecha compares.

Votoms.

>>14548392
Until they retconned that in 4.

tfw you thought MGS4 was the worst, but then TPP came out and proved you wrong.

>>14548005

Tim Burton and Star Wars

>Bersuck and Metal Gear Solid Cock are teh best evar

God this thread reeks of /v/.

>>14548835

The truth hurt, doesn 't it?

>>14548835
I'm not the biggest MGS fan and it's kind of irrelevant to what we're discussing but Liquid Ocelot's final battle with Snake gives me the chills every time. For all the faults of the rest of the game(s), that was a damn fine scene.

>>14548005
The Five Star Stories

>>14548835
Is hurr durr /v/ a thing lately? I've been away for a few months, and now i see that thrown around more than the word "cucks!" on a trump forum.

Only thing that made me suffer as much was MubRub, which is /m/ as fuck

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Anything by late Ken Ishikawa outmaches Miura's.

Miura is like his sempai Go Nagai.

His art is too clean.

Are there any authors who took a few years of hiatus, while doing mecha?

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>>14549154
Nagano with FSS. 9 years to be exact. He returned and brought the Gothicmade retcon with him.

I guess Blame in terms of drawn detail

>>14549185
man I still want to take a power sander to his crotch for doing that to FSS

>>14549185
GTM designs are still better than everything else recent

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>>14549185
Never forget. At least his humans look better.

>>14549239
Why does that image use proto-LED and LED Mirage and then suddenly switch to a completely unrelated mecha?

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>>14549239
>>14549248
I've never liked that particular comparison, so I updated it just because.

>>14548005
The correct answer is Break Blade.

>>14549111
>>14549117

Meh

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Masterfully illustrated seinen manga that just doesn't know when to finally end?
I'd compare it to Gunnm/Battle Angel personally. Though from what I've seen, recent volumes don't seem to have the same care put into the art as the original/last order.

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>>14548835

>>14549428
You asked a question, then calls every answer "meh". Are you just trying to masturbate your ego?

>>14549836

Not him, but he didn't meh every answer. He only went meh to the art from one specific source. Lots of other answers went unmeh'd. And while I wouldn't call that art meh, I don't agree that Ishikawa's is superior or that Miura's is inferior for being too clean.

>>14549452

It launched again as Mars Chronicles or something a year or two back, didn't it? Is that a prequel or a Mars exploring sequel or what? I haven't read since near the end of the ZOTT.

>berserk
>good

>>14549836
>>14549855
I suspect it's that one anon who tends to reply to most OPs with one-word replies, such as "yeah", "no", "shit" and "who?".

>>14548005
Guyver. At least unlike Miura, Takaya was more reasonably slowed down when he got ill once. However, there's still no telling when it'll end.

>>14549881
>Guyver is still ongoing
Man I stopped reading like 2 years ago

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>>14549836
>replying to the shitposter

WHEN WILL YOU LEARN
THAT YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES

>>14548005
berserk is a overrated crap

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>Pure, unfiltered edge to the point where it's humorous
the Front Mission manga

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>>14548835
Waiting for someone to say this. Only /v/ is new enough to call Beserk a masterpiece.

What a stupid thread, it should've ended here: >>14548012
Fucking perfect answer.

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I've seen barely barely of what he did given his colossal output, but from what I have seen Beast Machine Corps is some of the best Ishikawa art. Absolutely wonderful mix of solid hyper-detail & irreverently ugly (in a good way) cartooniness.
>>14549111
>>14549117
I'm not surprised this anon >>14549428 said "meh"; I think your first pic is nothing special and the second one would probably be great in better-quality. Hideously filtered.

"Too clean" is a really vague criticism to throw at Miura & Nagai since Miura's textured way of drawing shading feels anything but "sleek and beautiful" and stuff like Devilman is full of totally chaotic pages. Nagai's real issue is that he peaked early on when he focused on what he was really good at (striking composition with a lot of contrast, dynamic use of lines, cartoony aesthetics) and not even Shin Violence Jack, which looks pretty fucking cool, managed to live up to the sheer hyper-expressiveness of old Devilman & Jack at their best.

Miura is great and I feel that many people shit on him just to be contrarian, but I feel that sometimes his poses could be more lively and his compositions can mash together in a sorta bland way at times without being broken up in an interesting manner.

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>>14549022
It's mostly an /a/ thing that Moot started with his fucktarded pandering but it seems to be leaking to /m/ too. To be fair people like >>14553701 who think anything popular and well-executed is bad always existed here, but applying the /v/ boogeyman meme to it somehow makes it twice as obnoxious.

>>14553731
Berserk is good, don't get me wrong, but it's literally babby's first seinen. It's a lot like Gurren Lagann in that it's a great work, but because people are exposed to it first they automatically assume that it's the greatest thing ever and shit all over anything else regardless of its actual quality. And then the retarded fanbases... god.

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I'd love to hear what anime/manga the people taking issue with the OP's post consider to be "true masterpieces". I suspect the real reason you guys got asshurt is that you think it's inherently wrong to call ANY comic or cartoon a "masterpiece" because it's too earnestly dorky and not "cool self aware internet man" enough.

I'm not even a huge Berserk fan; I just think it makes good use of its influences and executes it all in a classy way (at least, as classy as a manga where the protagonist shouts "DON'T BE POPPING A BONER OVER MY HEAD" can get) and I understand why it's the favorite of many people. The only issue I have with it is that its fans never give any credit to Violence Jack.

>>14548005
The Front Mission mangas are pretty violent and have a lot of political stuff, they could compare with the Golden Age arc of Berserk.

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>>14553743
Yeah sure but I don't think people who really love a thing should start being excessively self-aware about it just because it got popular. There's a lot of stuff I think is fantastic, from super-popular series to stuff that's obscure and considered "legendarily bad" by the tiny amount of people that are even aware of it.

I'll agree that a lot of Berserk fans are cringey morons but the same applies to Ishikawa fans on /m/. The only anime/manga without that kind of fans are the ones that lack a cohesive internet fanbase.

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>>14553765
>>14553743
*without any kind of super-obnoxious fans
fixed

Basically, if something is popular and good it'll attract people who are utterly ignorant of the medium and think it's "the only good anime/manga" (or "one of the only good ones" blahblah)

If it's great and lesser known it'll attract people who want to look cool for being "knowledgeable, intellectual elites"

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>>14553727
To elaborate on this every time I google "Berserk manga" and get a bunch of ebin two-page spreads I come across some that can be tiring to look at because they're really, really visually busy. It's not always the case but it's common enough that I think it's worth pointing out.

But at the same time I can't think of a better-drawn dark fantasy manga for the life of me.

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>>14553779
Not even vaguely similar in tone or content or really anything beyond having a very detailed style, but I think Gon handles its use of positive and negative space better while having a lot of lines and texture and shading.

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>>14553754
>I'd love to hear what anime/manga the people taking issue with the OP's post consider to be "true masterpieces".

Not OP, but there are some manga out there that both /a/ and /m/ consider to be universal masterpieces. Like Nausicaa. Any opinions on that?

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>>14553795
At the same time this could just be cherrypicking & confirmation bias & me nitpicking something popular because it's popular

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>>14553797
Are you kidding? Nausicaa gets a ton of "actually, it's overrated" reactions on /a/ purely on account of being Miyazaki (a lot of it also being moe/lolifag asshurt and I'm saying this as someone who likes moelolishit). Some of it made some sense like one guy saying comic books aren't Miyazaki's forte and that his paneling & whatnot are not very good, but then you had shit like the retard saying "even Dragonball has a more creative and well executed universe!" which is pure contrarianism and one step less retarded than saying "30s Popeye has a better universe than Cowboy Bebop".

>>14553810
>Nausicaa gets a ton of "actually, it's overrated" reactions on /a/

News to me. Most of the time people talk about it, it's pretty much agreed that it's his best work, and all his movies are sorely lacking in comparison. It's hard to believe the same man who wrote Nausicaa also gave us the shitpile of a story that was Howl's Moving Castle and Ponyo.

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>>14553821
I actually thought the same as you for a while, especially given that it's like... the anti-Miyazaki in a lot of ways given the ending and the ultimate message of the story. But nah, people just have a hate boner against Miyazaki.

The difference between Nausicaa and Howl is that the Nausicaa manga is probably his most honest work but Howl is his least honest. With the latter he was just thoughtlessly shitting out "the Miyazaki brand".

I've not seen Ponyo but people's main criticism of it seems to be that it's "kiddy" so I doubt I'd hate it.

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Are there any professional manga authors that take really clear visual influence from Ishikawa except I guess the Basilisk guy (who ruins his art with lame effects and ugly backgrounds)?

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>>14553832
Nagai left his mark so hugely on anime/manga that every big scary monster has the Devilman/Mazinger/Mao Dante/etc parallelogram eyes; Guts, Eva Unit 01, Noroi from Gamba no Boken, Tora from Ushio & Tora, the list fucking goes on. But I never see the defining aspects of Ishikawa's style & design pop up in anything.

>>14553829
No, Howl was 100% Miyazaki being honest. He shoehorned in the whole "muh war" thing in response to the US occupation in Iraq, same reason he didn't attend the Oscars for Spirited Away as a form of protest. The problem is that he fucked over the original novels in the process and couldn't think of anything to make the story stand on its own. Basically, it was Miyazaki finally starting to grow senile.

Miyazaki's least honest work is Kiki, he actually admitted that he thought the film was too naive.

>I've not seen Ponyo but people's main criticism of it seems to be that it's "kiddy" so I doubt I'd hate it.

No, "kiddy" isn't the issue, because most of Miyazaki's movies are pretty kiddy. What makes Ponyo such a piece of garbage is that the execution was lazy, and you had to have a high bullshit tolerance level beyond understanding a Tomino series.

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>>14553837
I mean sure, Getter Robo itself is referenced, but its overall silhouette can be traced back to Black Ox.

>>14553731
>if you express any negativity towards something that happens to be popular that means you hate it just because it's popular

>>14553765
>I'll agree that a lot of Berserk fans are cringey morons
Which includes OP, hence him being called out. How dense are you?

>>14553829
>>14553810
Learn the difference between bait, sincere opinions, and exaggerating sincere opinions for the sake of egging on a discussion, newfag

Stop bumping this thread, it's cancer/bait, a barely disguised request thread and barely /m/. What the fuck does a "mecha equivalent to beserk" even mean?

>>14553840
I think the "war is bad and can be easily avoided" bullshit is just the public image Miyazaki wants to have for himself and deep inside he realizes that, fuck it, sometimes you have to obliterate your enemy because coexistence is impossible. Anno thinks the same about Miyazaki from what I gather and they're good friends.

I could see him being against the Iraq war in particular but I can't really imagine him seriously thinking Howl made a good anti-war statement. It was an utterly garbage fucking script and the ending was outright comedic.

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>>14553848
>exaggerating sincere opinions for the sake of egging on a discussion
Which is what I suspect OP is doing.

Name some anime/manga you consider a "masterpiece". I'm waiting.

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>>14553810
>retard saying "even Dragonball has a more creative and well executed universe!"

Nigga are you telling me Dragonball DOESN'T have a creative and well executed universe? Do you have any idea how much thought is put into the lore and technology there? Are you the same faggot going on the "Lazy Matsumoto" shitposting spree? All the pieces add up.

By the way, Dragonball and DBZ aren't the same thing. Dragonball is considered a classic original masterpiece and has been far more important to manga as a whole than Berserk or Nausicaa could ever dream of. The series defined the shounen genre and set the standard for character movement on a level that surpassed Tezuka at the time.

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>>14553862
>>14553848
Also
>What the fuck does a "mecha equivalent to beserk" even mean?
I assume: highly detailed art, violent, dark aesthetic & themes, overall well-executed.

Honestly, it could be that OP was baiting but the real punchline here is the fact that people are actually chimping out over it. It's hysterical that something so harmless riles people up on this site.

>>14553871
Refer to my Cowboy Bebop & Popeye comparison. Do you seriously think I was implying 30s Popeye is bad? It's fucking amazing. The original Dragonball is also really good.

My point wasn't that one is good and the other is bad, but that it's an apples-and-oranges comparison.

>>14553890
>My point wasn't that one is good and the other is bad, but that it's an apples-and-oranges comparison.

I haven't read Nausicaa so I can't comment on that, but any setting can be compared to one another. But it would have to be a fucking monster to even be able to top the universe of DB in just how fleshed out it is.

Setting is setting. There are no apples and oranges. A good setting can be spotted from a bad setting right away. See: typical generic light novels like Sword Art Online. Whoever that guy was that said Dragonball had a better setting than Nausicaa, I can't blame him. Dragonball's setting is that good.

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>>14553862
>Which is what I suspect OP is doing.
Probably, but it doesn't change the fact that his question has no clear meaning, little relevance to mecha, and that he's also very likely from /v/ or at least has little to no familiarity with manga beyond Berserk, leaving no reason to entertain his shitty request thread - except to prove whatever point about Berserk only ever getting criticized because of a conspiracy to hate anything popular, apparently.

>Name some anime/manga you consider a "masterpiece". I'm waiting.
I don't see how that's relevant. Gosenzo-sama, Shoujo Kakumei Utena; Domu, Gon >>14553795

>>14553884
Cancer isn't harmless.

>>14553915
People have already drawn comparisons to other manga. I'm the one who posted Gon and I think your choices are good but I still think the /v/ boogeyman is some silly shit.

>>14553727
>>14553731
>>14553754
>>14553765
>>14553771
Should've posted the trippy-ass monster designs from Makuu Hakkenden if anything

>mecha equivalent of Berserk
Please keep the really stupid Berserk threads in /a/. Which would be most of them nowadays.

Thank you.

>>14549452
Berserk is not masterfully illustrated.

>>14553837
Doesn't matter. Ishikawa is by far the better draftsman.

>>14553854
You are by far the most retarded person i have ever seen. The dude's earliest memories are of war factories and 1940's japan. Do you really think he would ever agree with " deep inside he realizes that, fuck it, sometimes you have to obliterate your enemy because coexistence is impossible." LIKE SERIOUSLY NIGGER!? When his country was Japan and the nuclear obliteration was happening to his people? What are you like five?

>>14555975
This is a /m/ thread, I chose something with a lot of robots.
>>14556066
Yeah sure but by those standards some "muh loomis" /ic/ users are "better draftsmen" than multiple iconic manga authors. As long as you can draw solidly enough to get your vision across, inventiveness matters more than the super-technical side of drawing to me.

Don't get me wrong, Ishikawa's superior skill in those areas helped him and he was also very inventive; I just don't want to be dismissive of Nagai when he created so much iconic imagery and understood his medium so well. Ishikawa himself would not be either even though I'm sure deep inside he knew he beat Nagai in multiple areas.
>>14556543
The man sure as hell has a fixation/borderline fetish with military equipment.

Also:

>Anno: Another [major influence] was the seventh volume of the Nausicaa manga.

>Takekuma: That [volume] is incredible. It reversed all the values [that had been in place].

>Anno: I felt like it was the same as what I [was doing]. After that I couldn’t help but make [the work into] Nausicaa, to treat the same themes as the seventh volume of Nausicaa.

>Oizumi: Nausicaa was unable to live as one of the ancients.

>Anno: She rejected coexistence [with them]. She bloodied her hands so that her own people would survive. That was good. This karmic punishment that required [her] to destroy [them] with the abhorred fire of the God Warriors – that was good (laughing). [Good] because the true views of Hayao Miyazaki were expressed, and there, at least, he took off his underwear [and showed himself naked]. In the manga he took off his underwear, and his penis was erect (laughing). I am hoping that he will do the same in Princess Mononoke.

>>14556049
What are your criticisms of Berserk's art aside from the digital shit in the recent chapters? I've already explained my personal issues so I'm not saying it's flawless, I'm just curious what yours are.

>>14557019
>The man sure as hell has a fixation/borderline fetish with military equipment.=/=Genocide of your enemies is a definite solution besides the historical precedent against that.

>>14549111
0/10

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>>14553871

>>14557871
>/co/ meme reaction image

good one

>>14553871
>are you telling me Dragonball DOESN'T have a creative and well executed universe? Do you have any idea how much thought is put into the lore and technology there?
This has to be bait.

>By the way, Dragonball and DBZ aren't the same thing
Bro it's the same manga. It's called Dragon Ball. Only the TV series separates it as Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z.

>>14556543
You have no idea what you're taking about. It is well noted that Miyazaki used the Nausicaa manga as an outlet of expressing things that he deemed too unpalatable for the general audience that his films were primarily aimed at.

That anon is correct. Miyazaki has stated multiple times that he ads certain themes to his films (and he has specifically mentioned pacifism and environmentalism in interviews) because the audience wants those sorts of themes.

>>14557026
The image composition in Berserk is not that good, and the majority of his poses are extremely stiff and unnatural looking. The level of detail in a panel is usually pretty uneven. You get plenty of panels where one corner of the panel is full of detailed line-work, while the other just has the outlines slapped on and that's it. It's like he gets bored with completing the drawing, says "fuck it" and moves on to the next panel where he does the same.

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>>14553727
Ishikawa simply does better looking monstrosities than Miura. Nagai too.

Pic related looks better than OP's pic imo.

I find Berserk's art overrated as fuck.

>>14548005
Rebuild of eva. because neither will ever be finished.

>>14557600
>Genocide of your enemies is a definite solution
I never said that though so way to strawman.

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>>14558490
The first 2 points are a harsher version of what I said earlier. Posing is not Miura's strongest point but I wouldn't say most of them are bad; however it's clear he's not mastered gesture the way that people like Hiroaki Samura have.

I do think he's really good at creating striking imagery in terms of sheer design creativity & building a stylistically cohesive world. I disagree with >>14558496 about his monster designs, I think he's fucking fantastic at it. And as much as I love Ishikawa I think that picture is a bit of a clusterfuck the same way a lot of Miura's worst compositions are.

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>>14558612
I also think Ishikawa & Nagai did some fantastic creature/monster designs but I think they aim for a different thing. Nagai's best monsters in my opinion are his really hyper-stylized ones and Ishikawa is going more for a crazy badass look while Miura's creatures aim for "grotesque & bizarre yet natural"

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>>14558620
Shit like this just makes for a really interesting and fun world.

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>>14558621

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>>14558628
I think this is Nagai's best monster design, at least from what I've read/seen, and it's such a different style I feel it would be futile to say which is "better". I think both excel at what they try to do.

Miura's Nagai influence is actually more obvious in the way he draws humans.

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>>14558630
really I think Nagai's best monsters are his cartooniest while Miura's best are the most natural-looking.

I really love Miura trolls because they remind me of the "trolls" in the Huygen&Portvliet Gnomes book.
I'm sure others understand what I'm talking about.

>>14548005
Aquarion Logos and Nobunaga The Fool come to mind

>>14558723
I wish weird grotesque trolls like that became the iconic online representation of trolling instead of that rape rodent ripoff face

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>>14558630
>>14558641
> it's such a different style
Nagai's late monster art look way less cartoony than what he was doing in the 70s.

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>>14558641
Jinmen in Nagai's Devilman Lady.

Way less cartoony looking than the original.

A lot of things, because Berserk is terribly overrated and Miura will probably lose interest completely or die before it's done, because he's evidently more interested in playing Idolmaster than tending to his own creation.

>>14553743
>babby's first seinen
I suppose it was my first, but that was over a decade ago and I still love it. I did cringe a bit at OP calling it a masterpiece (and it comes off baitish), but I think it is very high quality.

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>>14553854
>sometimes you have to obliterate your enemy because coexistence is impossible.

>>14558470
>Miyazaki has stated multiple times that he ads certain themes to his films (and he has specifically mentioned pacifism and environmentalism in interviews) because the audience wants those sorts of themes.

I have never seen him say this. If you honestly believe that Miyazaki supports any kind of militarism or obliterating another enemy, you know nothing about the man. Did you forget the many times he protested the military, like recently with wanting US troops to leave Okinawa and demanding Abe from re-mililitarizing the country?

>>14559379
I wonder how he feels about radical Islam.

>>14559396
He thinks it's your fault if you get killed by them. No, really.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/11417395/Hayao-Miyazaki-Charlie-Hebdo-Mohammed-cartoons-were-a-mistake.html

>>14559427
Jesus what a kek

>>14559427
Sounds like he should pull the stick from his fucking ass.

>>14559427
Japan never bombed the middle east and the government doesn't allow muslism migrants so it's easy to talk

>>14558994
That's where the Gurren Lagann comparisons come from. It's many people's first super robot but it's very good, but many tards assume it's the greatest thing ever and ignore everything else.

>>14548835
>bersuck

I think you might be smelling yourself my man

>>14558470
"Hello i am Miyazaki and the genocide of your enemies is sometimes a necessity in war." If you can find that EXACTLY, then you have a point. Otherwise you might want to take that dick out of your mouth before speaking.

File: BERSERK.jpg (513KB, 1402x935px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14548005
>What is the mecha equivalent of Berserk?
I'm not sure there is one. I can't think of a single robot that transforms into a boat.

>>14548005
Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans. It's gritty, it's dark, it doesn't shy away from the hard facts of life.

>>14562322
Weren't there Transformers that turned into boats?

File: Hearts_of_Steel_1ri.jpg (103KB, 700x549px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14562526
Have an Ironclad.

>>14562539
Hearts of Steel was too good for this world.

>>14548005
Well one of the main things that makes Berserk Berserk is the fact that it isn't finished after decades. I can't think of any /m/ manga that has is still on going for a similar length of time. The closest I can think of is the Evangelion manga which took almost 20 years to finally finish.