Who is the best pure skill pilot and why is it Graham?

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>>14546627

In a world of bullshit mecha mutants he only had skill and guts on his side why the fuck didn't you paint it white idiot, Woolf taught you better

>>14546632
Because painting it white would give away his identity.

Yazan was so gud,not even space autism can handle it.

>>14546627
Word of god said Sergei was better.

>>14546632
Because , he grew up to be a deadbeat louse. I loved him in his own arc though.

>>14546647
Because the V-Fin and the general fact that it's age 2 don't give it away.

>>14546627
>not Yazan
VIOLATE

>>14546647

THAT...makes a lot of sense..

>>14546651

Seriously? He seems better at tactics and using a squad to its fullest potential but in a 1v1 I wouldn't say he's better than Graham

>>14546664
>He seems better at tactics and using a squad to its fullest potential but in a 1v1 I wouldn't say he's better than Graham

This. Sergei was a field commander who wasn't afraid get dirty from time to time. But Graham was a straight up fighter.

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>>14546627
>>14546632
Ladies, please.

>>14546627
yazan

don't forget ali lads

>>14546880

I don't care what anyone says, Kou blocking his beam saber with his fucking foot >>>>> anything from this grain killer.

>>14546880
A fanatical space-hitler worshiper who managed to take on a rookie who didn't even have newtype powers or superior tech to make up the difference... wow, so impressive...

Dies in a stupid way achieving nothing but giving power to the movement that became the Titans.

>>14546627
>Posts a character who isn't even 2nd best in his own series

First and second were Ali and Sergei per word of god, pretty much destroying the entire logic of Ribbons about innovator superiority. Ali even had the best on screen performance over the course of 2 seasons.

>>14546645
Top contender, but Johnny Ridden recently showed he'd give the GOAT a run for his money.

>>14546794
Untrue. Sergei at no point had a superior suit, and yet in the first few episodes Sergei managed to deal more damage than Graham did taking advantage of the Tieren's strengths. His biggest problem in the show is that he is usually stuck baby sitting while Graham either goes lone wolf or plays the striker position and gives no fucks to supporting his wingmen, so you end up feeling Papa Bear looks unimpressive if you don't keep track of the scoreboard.

>>14546880
>Episode 1
>10 seconds in
>Loses his arm and gun to random barrage

Literally has never happened to any ace pilot in the history of Gundam. Hell it never even happened to any named character in the history of Gundam other than this loser. And he wasn't even the sole target, he was with a bunch of zeeks and none of them got hit but him.

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>>14547599

>nd he wasn't even the sole target, he was with a bunch of zeeks and none of them got hit but him.

oo i am laffin

>>14546880
Nigger, he only used one of a kind MS in his own anime and still got his ass handed to him by a rookie with no super powers, a rookie who had abliterated his flunkies along the way while he just sat there waiting for him and at worst shooting the errant fed.

Gato is one of the worst pilots in the franchise, his plans only worked because his enemies wanted it to work and because he was backed by actually competent people

>>14546651
>>14546664
>>14547573
Only thing Mizushima saix was in season 1 the best pilots were Sergeri, Aker, and Ali. He never ranked them against each other.

>>14546627
V I O L A T E
I
O
L
A
T
E

>>14547789
>>14546645
Yazan isnt just pure skill, he also has his special ability of being so strong he can pilot suits like the gaplant without dying

>>14546645
Reminder Ali killed more named characters then Yazan did. And more civilian populations with mass murder through terror tactics as well.

>>14547753
I never said he ranked them, but Aker was not in the same line as Sergei and Ali. Aker was more like the guy in between, like Ribbons except without the huge tech advantage.

>>14548283
Well he died, plus he's in a universe where he was undisputed the best pilot on-screen going by shots/attacks fired vs landed. Yazan was in a series where an autistic girl had enough power to bulldoze his way through other people's magic hax.

>>14548411
Ali has that with an autistic human-gundam hybrid as well. Better to die with glory then live on like a disgraced hobo.

>>14548283
Sergei is literally overrated. He does nothing of note in actual combat besides pressure Setsuna for all of a few seconds and then sits back during combat and commanding Soma and her squadmates. Even in the final fight of season 1, its mainly Soma vs Hal/Al while he can barely keep up.

Aker is vastly superior to him as a pilot.

>>14548529
Second part meant for >>14548403

Full fucking Frontal. Dude barely got a scratch his entire run.

>>14548529
Setsuna was a complete joke compared to Kamille though. Even in S2 when he is given every possible advantage he fares no better than Graham does in S1 from a relative scale against his opponents. And Setsuna is already the guy who got the biggest growth in CB.

Thinking being a hobo for a few months is bad compared to dying already says a lot about you and tells me you only watch anime. Most of Yazan's character growth comes from the manga and how he changes after getting a dose of being with the Titans.

Once again your comparison of Aker to Sergei is poor because Sergei babysat his entire squad including fodder. Aker did jack shit and allowed far more wingmen to die in far less time whenever he was in command over a squad. Sergei's role and desire was to look over Soma, and he gave a hell lot more shit about the lives of his men than Mr. Weeb who threw everything away just so he could 1v1 someone after they were done fighting a bunch of other people.

You're basically comparing Guts protecting Casca versus Guts alone in a zerker suit. No shit the latter will wreck a lot more shit, the latter has nothing to hold him down and he gets vastly superior equipment.

If you compare shots fired/landed Sergei in his miniscule combat time still beats out Graham by a fair margin in S1. Only Ali trumps over Sergei reaching 40%+ accuracy on screen while Papa Bear didn't even reach 25% as 2nd. For reference counting every on-screen shot made until Neil fights Ali, he had the lowest accuracy rate at less than 13% despite being the sniper, but no worries once he fought a terrorist with pistols without an eye he became the biggest monster of 00, same with his brother.

Graham basically gets by because he has the most style, but if you go by stats he's only above average. He's like Donaldo, pretty boy, charismatic, constantly wants to surpass an autistic manlet who does better than him with superior doping, a complete manchild when it comes to winning/losing, what else?

>>14548581
>Even in S2 when he is given every possible advantage he fares no better than Graham does in S1
You're pulling this out of your ass now.
>from a relative scale against his opponents
Also untrue. Setsuna was holding his own and matching the latest A-Laws GN/Tau Drive equipped mobile suits even an an outdated badly damaged Exia Repair throughout the timeskip between the epilogue in season 1 to the start of season 2.
>Think being a hobo for a few few months is bad.
I'd rather be dead then a homeless loser who ends up a pathetic shadow of one's former glory and self and end up as a gag tier character before being thrown away, mate.
>only watch anime
ZZ isn't anime.
>Most of Yazan's character growth comes from the manga.
Which is largely unofficial shit and supplementary at best. Irrelevant to a primarily anime related discussion in the first place.
>Sergei babysat his entire squad
No one cares. He does literally nothing of note as an actual pilot throughout the show, and the most he does of that nothing is in season 1. He fights Setsuna once, pressures him for a few moment and then loses an arm and was going to die iirc until Setsuna decided to retreat or reinforcements came and Setsuna left.
>Aker did jack shit
Aker danced around Setsuna's clumsy attacks in close combat, took no damage in combat with him in their first two fights despite piloting an inferior tech wise suit and later on disabled the arm of a Throne Gundam, forced Michael off, while tanking superhuman gee-forces that had him coughing up blood while stealing a GN saber. He also deflected and blocked all of Neil's close range shots at point-blank range and knocked out Neil during the siege against the Meisters in the Gobi desert. What did Sergei do as a pilot? Nothing. You're irrelevant red herrings aren't going to save him face here. He has nothing but hype from Mizushima and on-screen he does nothing to justify it unlike Ali and Aker.

>>14548581
>Aker did jackshit
>never took damage from the Exia in a Flag and later Over-Flag in season 1
>cut off the arm of the Zwei Gundam and stole its own beam saber to do so while matching it in close combat
>matched the Dynames in the first fight and blocked all of its shots with the Over-Flag's defense rod
>second fight knocked Neil out and took the Dynames out of the fight until the arrival of the Thrones to save the Meisters asses from the joint Union/AEU/HRL entrapment operation

Sergei doesn't do anything in the series. And what do you mean far more wingmen died because of Graham? The HRL literally canonically on-screen loses more pilots and units then either the AEU or Union put together throughout the first season.

All you're doing is running around like a chicken with its head cut off ranting and raving dumb shits and crying sour grapes here because Sergei's relationship with Soma? That's fucking pathetic dude. You even switched the goal posts that the topic in this tangent being about pilot levels of the top guys to nonsense about caring about wingmen. Graham had Daryl and Howard's names engraved into the swords he used for the Masuaro and Susanwoo, hell he even intentionally used the frame of Howard's Over-Flag for the Masuro and Susanwoo and was upset about Joshua's death despite the dude being an ass to him.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

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>>14548581
>If you compare shots fired/landed Sergei in his miniscule combat time still beats out Graham by a fair margin
Because being in all of like four combat missions and barely firing in the first place is such a massive accolade or show of accomplishment right?

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>>14546627
>Who is the best pure skill pilot
My money's on Noin.
Zechs was no slouch, being able to take on something as powerful as the Wing Gundam in strong, but outdated suit, and Noin is pretty much canonically a better pilot than him.

>>14548581
I recently rewatched 00 s1's one for fun again and I'm missing where Sergei did anything after the first combat deployment in the story where he engages Setsuna one-on-one at the HRL base early in the show. Most of the time all he does is hang back and tell his men not to engage when Soma is fighting or to back her up with him.

I'm not really seeing where he comes off impressively here at all.

Fon Spaak is the best AD pilot.

>>14548581
>Yazan in the manga
What manga?

that comic relief dude from 00
nigga didn't die ONCE

>>14548647
Noin is not better than Zechs. Don't take the dialog out of context. Zechs got the highest scores at the academy but felt that Noin was aiming for second to make him look better. That doesn't mean she's better than him. That means she just does her best to make him stand out more. Then when you realize on screen that Zechs was fighting Gundams with outdated machines all series while Noin got destroyed by Wufei in their first encounter.

>>14548647
Zechs was faking and holding back at the Academy when it comes to the pilot scores in AC, dude. This is like common knowledge.

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>>14548662
The Immortal Colasour is the greatest. Probably my favorite 00 character.
I'll never stop laughing that he took his wife's last name.

>>14548653
Fon Spaak is shit, fuck off with that OC donut steel super saiyan gary sue faggot.

>>14548656
MSV:R Return of Johnny Ridden

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>>14548674
Patrick is cute! CUTE!

>>14548677
Why is Fon hated for the same things that Ali is praised for?

>>14548754
Because Ali and Fon are nothing alike? Fon is character from a side story spin-off manga that is pushed as some god tier super edgy ultimate bad-ass mother fucker who shits on Ali + Aker + Neil + Setsuna put together but doesn't dramatically change the story because he chose not to?

He is for all intents and purposes an example of an awful fanfic styled ancillary character who ruins a story. Ali was just really fucking GOAT at close combat, a top tier pilot as stated by the director, Mizushima, but not some flawless perfectionist like Fon.

>>14548674
>>14548701
Literally my favorite couple in all of Gundam.
Probably anything really.

>>14548754
Ali's dead, dead as a door nail dead. Dead for good dead. Dead as Setsuna's parents dead

>>14548754
Because Ali wasn't some forced or super edgy try-hard faggot? For all his skill, his main gimmick for his success against Setsuna early on was that he recongized Setsuna's combat style and therefore anticipate and counter and completely disarm Setsuna of his weapons despite being in an inferior suit.

Fon has the author literally being shoved in the reader's face as being this ultimate pilot whose better then everyone. Hell this reminds me of Nenafags complaining about Alifags but the funny thing is the latter don't try to brush aside Ali being a bad person which Nenafags do with Nena. We just think Ali was cool, a nice second coming of Yazan.

>>14548754
Ali's specialty was close combat. He wasn't perfect at everything.

>>14548638
>never took damage from the Exia in a Flag and later Over-Flag in season 1

The Overflag was completely destroyed by that conflict, though. At best you can call it a draw for him.

Still find it fucking hilarious that his only outright victory against Setsuna was during his Mr. Bushido phase.

>>14548674
>I'll never stop laughing that he took his wife's last name.

It's entirely in character for him, too.

>>14548836
The Over-Flag was turned into a GN Flag and it achieved a stalemate with the Exia. Can you show me Sergei doing fuck all anything after his first fight with Setsuna that doesn't involve him sitting in the background or acting like Soma's backup?

>>14548836
Over-Flag ! = GN Over-Flag

He's not wrong. Before the final fight between Setsuna and Graham in season 1, he manages to avoid taking any serious or major damage to his Flag and stalemating Setsuna and Neil repeatedly.

Sergei has all of one fight in combat with an actual Gundam Meister by his lonesome. The other anon is seriously wanking him.

>>14548860
And don't forget damaging the Zwei Gundam, and sending Michael running. Although he had to steal his GN beam saber to pull that off.

>>14548850
>it achieved a stalemate with the Exia
Both Setsuna and Exia were exhausted from the battle with the Alvatore in that confrontation.

>>14548870
Exia wasn't exhausted, it runs on a true GN Drive. It just couldn't abuse Trans-AM mode and Graham was still utilizing an inferior MS, with an inferior limited powered GN Tau Drive, and couldn't go into MA mode with it and his only weapon was the GN beam saber in question that had to have cable connection plugging directly into the Tau Drive in question.

Stop downplaying.

>>14546880
The most successful thing he had achieved is to make other characters less annoying.
Kou, or even some emotional bitch who still acted like a HUMAN is still much better than some robotic space nazi holding a blind belief and was so retarded that he can't face the fact Zeon had lost OYW.

>>14548878
Did you just watch the special edition instead of the TV series? That's not how Trans-Am or GN drives works.

>>14548900
No, that's straight from the TV series itself. Exia powers down after the fight with Alejandro, which is the main reason why he doesn't simply otherwise abuse Trans-AM to fight the GN Flag once Graham shows up.

>>14548900
Real GN drives don't run out of power. Tau Drives do. Most mobile suits equipped with Trans-AM regardless of having a proper GN Drive or a Tau Drive still can't abuse Trans-AM mode.

>>14548754
Literally had no idea he even existed

>>14548929
They run low on particles after using trans-am and have their abilities lowered until they can generate more. This is stated in series

>>14548937
Yes, but real GN drives can recycle them and bolster back to their original output levels. Tau Drives can NOT, which is the main reason why they are inferior copies of the real deal.

>>14548937
I know this. We see this even several times with Lockon needing Haro to manage the Dynames GN Drive's output and energy levels when he has to switch between his sniper rifle to his GN pistols. The boost here is that the Exia's main weapons; the GN blade and GN sword do not require any power from his suit's power plant iirc.

So it hardly had a huge effect on his duel with Graham.

>>14548937
They run low on particles but they don't run out of them. Why do you think the fake solar furnaces used by the Innovades or the A-Laws have a limited operational time compared to the Meisters real versions? They have to return to their support ships or bases to recharge them.

Sure the performance can drop but as noted, the Exia's main weapons don't need a connection with its GN drive to operate as their just big metal swords that are boosted by GN technology developing them into super sharp cutting metals in the first place. The Exia's performance was hindered after dropping out of Trans-AM mode but it just put the GN Flag and Exia on an even field.

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>>14546958
Yep. Kou is arguably the best non-Newtype Gundam pilot.

>>14548667
>Then when you realize on screen that Zechs was fighting Gundams with outdated machines all series

He barely managed to mildly inconvience Heero by sacrificing his Leo.

After that he had nothing but top of the line stuff. Tallgeese was on par with the Gundam's just not quite as easy to pilot so props to him for managing it, but it was a great suit, and after that he went to Wing Zero and finally Epyon.

Plus he only fought Gundam's in Tallgeese twice, once with Wing and once with Heavyarms, and then spent the rest of his time with the goose fighting Oz and mobile dolls. By the time he started fighting Gundam's regularly he had Zero or Epyon, which were superior to everything but Zero or Epyon themselves.

Noin meanwhile managed to survive all series without any super MS to call her own.

>>14548986
By mildly inconvience Heero you mean completely prevent the Wing from breaking out of its grapple or hold and having to bail out of the Gundam and try to destroy it following that?

>Tallgeese was on par with the Gundams
It had the speed to keep up with them and was tougher then anything save those made out of Gundanium alloy. Which means of course, it was still inferior and an out-dated suit on top of that.

I have to ask, are you a troll? Are you the same guy who was pushing Sergei? Because Noein does barely anything to inconvenience any named pilot in Wing as well.

>>14547599
Those honorless Feds attacked when he was distracted by Zeon's light of hope and couldn't see. The cowardly dogs.

>>14548989

>Anyone disagreeing with me must be the same guy.

>>14548999
Nice inverted trips, Satan.

>>14548667

Noin lost in an Aries. An Aries.

Kira Tomato.

>>14548986
Tallgeese couldn't damage the Gundams but one hit from them would cause massive damage to it.
Tallgeese was outclassed by the Taurus, Virgo, The Gundams and Mercurius and Vayeate which Zechs fought two on one.

>Noin meanwhile managed to survive all series without any super MS to call her own.

Noin got spared by Wufei and barely fought after that. At one point Duo and Quatre had to save her from dolls in space. She's great but not as good as the other 7 main pilots.

>>14549160
I seem to remember the Tallgeese wrecking many Virgos and Tauruses, the episode where Zechs switches over to the Wing Zero was kind of contrived in that mobile dolls were somehow able to land hits on him and give him trouble when they never used to.

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>>14549160
>Tallgeese couldn't damage the Gundams but one hit from them would cause massive damage to it.
Yeah, that's why in the Glory of Losers retelling, the Tallgeese was given a brand new heat lance, they knew that most of their weaponry was ineffective against the Gundams.

>>14549192
Tallgeese was faster than the dolls but they had better weapons and the Virgo obviously had better defense. The Taurus could cripple Gundams with a single shot from the beam cannon. Zechs had been complaining about Tallgeese feeling sluggish because he was reacting too fast for it. It's like Amuro needing the magnetic coating.

>>14549240
That manga does a whole lot right. The Zero vs Epyon fight at Sanc was way better. I like how they acknowledged that Epyon's sword was stronger than a beam saber so Zechs had to parry it with two.

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>>14549251
>Zechs had been complaining about Tallgeese feeling sluggish because he was reacting too fast for it. It's like Amuro needing the magnetic coating.
That never made much sense to me in the TV series. At a certain point in the series, Zechs has a certain level of skill and is comfortable fighting mobile dolls with the Tallgeese.

His piloting skill and reaction time improves, and suddenly fighting the same mobile dolls with the same Tallgeese causes him to have trouble. Improving as a pilot made him perform worse. I guess it could be that he feels restricted by the suit, but it's still weird.

Glory of Losers made more sense simply by having Howard say that the Tallgeese has a lot of wear and tear being put back into use after it was left exposed to the sea air for 20 years without moving, and needs to be overhauled. As opposed to the series where Howard just straight up says that there's nothing wrong with the Tallgeese.

>>14549315
Agreed. That manga pretty much improved everything about Wing. Shame about it not getting any merchandise

>>14546645
Yazan made me love the Hambrabi, even though I thought it was pretty ugly at first. That's a serious achievement.

>>14548647
I watched Wing recently, but when the hell did they imply she was anything special piloting wise? Any time she goes against a serious threat she gets demolished, and she doesn't do much outside of that.

>>14548627
>unofficial shit
The word you are looking for is non-canon.
It's most certainty an officially endorsed manga.

>>14546632
Wasn't "super pilot" revealed to be like an actual special snowflake trait, and not just a way of expressing pure skill though? They seemed to accidentally go full circle with that shit once they started explaining that x-rounders couldn't track him properly.

>>14548662
being an Abnormal Survivor isn't necessarily a testament to skill, more a defiance to the laws of the universe.

>>14549372
Aside from lines hinting that she held herself back at the academy to make Zechs look better, there's EW where she keeps up with the Tallgeese III against an army of Serpents in a fucking Taurus.

>>14549563

This is in a show where named pilots often match Gundams in the series' most bottom barrel unit, the Leo. Zechs himself managed to stymy Gundams in a Leo once or twice. She was a named pilot. A named pilot getting in to any unit gives that unit a huge stat boost and makes it near equal to whatever they're fighting. Youight as well say Zechs is better because he defeated a Gundam using a Leo.

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>>14549581
>often match Gundams in the series' most bottom barrel unit, the Leo.

No. It happens twice. Zechs against Wing Gundam and Heero against Nataku. Three times if you count Hilde and Duo taking out Wing Zero in the manga and that was a two on one with Deathscythe Hell doing most of the work. Zechs only piloted a Leo once in the series and that was episode 1. After that he didn't pilot again until he got Geese.

So like none of you are going to mention Yuu Kajima, Who managed to beat a Blue destiny unit with a GM and is a confirmed survior from the OYW all the way to CCA?

>>14549598
Who?

Ali al-Saachez is probably the GOAT.

Yazan and Asemu are close. Asemu might even be better than Yazan, since his raw talent was absurd and AGE Jewtypes basically clairvoyant

>>14549598
>died pushing the comet
lel

>>14549641
guy from some Sega Saturn games

>>14549160
Tallgeese wasn't outclassed by the Taurus or the Virgo. Or even the Mercurius and Vayeate for that matter. You're mixing Zechs being confused and unfamiliar with Mobile Doll AIs in more advanced suits like the Taurus or the fact he was being tagged teamed by Heero and Trowa for the Tallgeese somehow magically being inferior.

>>14549251
The Tallgeese can pull 15gees, Taursus can only mage 8-12 iirc. And both it and the Tallgeese II did fine dispatching Virgos I and Virgo II jacked up on the Zero System.

Yazan. Is it even a contest? He beat the most powerful Newtype that was piloting his hallmark Gundam.

>>14548574
Are you fucking with me? He was a jackass who had a incredibly advanced suit going against people whose suits were already old and against a kid who really didn't want to pilot his gundam and qhwn said kid got pissed he handed FF his ass, even when piloting a gigantic MA against Banana and a guy who was using drugs to pilot his MS he still struggled and then of course there is the novel where he got emasculated by a hooker

Also
>Dude barely got a scratch his entire run
Did you forget that time Daguza made a fool of him and shoot a rocket launcher on his face while on foot?

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>>14546627
>ctrl+f uso
>0 matches

Come on guys, considering how terrifyingly advanced Victory grunts are, the kid's kill count is mighty impressive.

>>14551000
He even makes enemies blow themselves up when they find out he's a kid.

>ctrl+f "Garrod Ran"
>0 results

>>14550341
Tallgeese was faster than those suits but they had better weapons and armor. Those suits could damage Gundams. Tallgeese couldn't.

Fuck it. Just post your favorite non-psychic/whatever pilot and why.

>>14551583
A few Taurus mobile suits with beam cannons dismembered the Deathscythe and fucked up the Shenlong as easily as they did the Tallgeese, so no.

>>14551814
What are you saying?

>>14551000
He's a Newtype so he's not a skill pilot.

>>14551814
Shenlong didn't get fucked up by Tauruses, it lost an arm to a battlestation class beam cannon and then Wufei ran away like a bitch only to surrender after almost running out of fuel and air.

Zechs abandoned the Tallgeese after it took a single shot to its right engine.

>>14546627
What's Graham's claim to fame? Nearly dying from cutting off the arm of a gundam with a shit pilot?

Capturing Dynames after it's pilot was exhausted from hours of continuous fighting?

Fighting a powered down Exia with no weapons (and a shit pilot) to a standstill?

Kicking Setsuna's ass in a a suit that's only slightly worse than his that blows up after using Trans Am?

Losing two straight Trans Am shitfests against the 00 Raiser?

He's got nothing on Ali who would have probably wiped the whole cast if he was allowed Trans Am, or Yazan, who makes the entire cast of Zeta Gundam look like compete novices essentially every time he shows up.

>>14552967
You can say all that and be a pessimitic asshole with a skewed and very obvious biased view but that's still more then anything Sergei did in either season.

>vastly inferior Flag vs super powered nigh infinite energy running Gundam that shits pixies dust of the devil gets owned in close combat
>"lol that ain't shit doe guys!"

>>14553200
*pessimistic

>>14548574
He's a newtype, so he doesn't count here

>>14550593
But he never beat Judau.

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>>14546669
Get the fuck out.

>>14552967
>What's Graham claim to fame?
He piloted a Flag and later again an Over-Flag which are technologically and performance wise inferior to any of the Gundam Meisters or Gundam Throne units, managing to damage a Throne thanks to his skill and superhuman endurance, disarming Michael of his weapon, and not getting damaged until the final fight with a powered down post TRANS-AM using Exia.

>capturing Dynames
Are you forgetting their first fight where he was dodging all of Lockon's shots, mid-air transformation which he's infamous for, forcing Lockon to defend with his beam saber and then blocking all of his close range shots at point-blank with the Over-Flag's Defense Rod?

Lockon got embarrassed twice over by Graham in season 1. Even said powered down Exia was still better and has access to its beam sabers, GN blades/swords, and the beam rifle while all Graham had was a dinky physically mounted and connected last minute made in Korea linked GN bean saber and nothing else.

>Setsuna
>shit pilot
Nice meme.

>>14554401
Technically a Cyber Newtype.

>>14553200
>Sergei
Ali is better than both of them

>>14555216
Johan is a shit pilot

>Even said powered down Exia was still better and has access to its beam sabers, GN blades/swords, and the beam rifle while all Graham had was a dinky physically mounted and connected last minute made in Korea linked GN bean saber and nothing else.

Exia literally only had the GN Sword, it's worst and slowest weapon that only exists to destroy GN fields, and it's rifle which is more or less useless once Graham gets the drop on him. Setsuna just fought the final boss and is more than a little tired. A beam saber is still a beam saber and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with it, he actually had an advantage because it's been established several times that the GN sword is slower than a beam saber.

>Are you forgetting their first fight where he was dodging all of Lockon's shots, mid-air transformation which he's infamous for, forcing Lockon to defend with his beam saber and then blocking all of his close range shots at point-blank with the Over-Flag's Defense Rod? Lockon got embarrassed twice over by Graham in season 1.


He made Lockon get serious, he had no reason to suspect a random flag would put up that much of a fight when he's used to gunning them down by the dozens. After he put Dynames in combat mode and took his beam saber out he would have probably kicked Graham's ass considering he fought Ali evenly while he was piloting a gundam and only had one eye.

The second time Lockon has been fighting for several hours and the last thing he says before Graham takes him out is that he can't feel his fingers.

>Nice meme.
Setsuna is an incredibly mediocre pilot relying heavily on his mech in S1. Every one of his victories is due to the superior performance of his machine. This is only slightly less true in S2

>>14546627
Name 1 ONE time where Graham didn't just get the drop on a nigga and won because they had no idea what the fuck was going on

>>14549383

They never actually explain what super pilot is. But it's never said to be a genetic trait. It's just something Wolf seemed to make up to describe himself, a pilot so good, so skilled and talented and daring, that they can overcome any bullshit.

I agree it went full circle because Asemu was SO good that it was completely insane. If Asemu is still considered a "normal" Oldtype pilot, he might be the best one in the Gundam series. Especially when you look at how strong X-Rounders were in AGE, with Flit being able to basically read the future down to being able to direct people to move specific degrees to dodge individual shots.

IIRC Zeheart was the most powerful X-Rounder ever in AGE until that last boss clone faggot showed up. And Asemu took Zeheart apart literally in seconds.

>>14555523
>Ali is better than both of them.
Debatable in season 1, since only Aker compares to him and Neil and Sergei sucks ass. Aker is likely superior in season 2.

The rest of your post is dismissive bullshit and clearly you have a biased against Aker that you aren't even able to discuss his feats or accomplishments as a pilot and I find I won't waste time arguing with someone like you.

>>14555567

In S2 Ali is able to fight Setsuna and Tieria at the same time, and it's not even a difficult fight where he's struggling. No, he is pretty much dunking on them effortlessly, and is only chased off when they activate Kaioken--I mean Trans-Am. And the entire season Ali is held back because Ribbons purposely won't let him have Trans-Am because he would be too strong with it.

Ali is the greatest of all time.

>>14555523
All Ali does is go even with Setsuna who is a pretty shitty pilot, kill the Thrones by first shooting Michel with a pistol, and then beating a Throne that was running low on energy and had its sword taken by Graham, and take out Lockon who was already half blinded by the best pilot

>>14555567
>Biased
He's still the second best pilot in the setting that's not using any Quantum brainwaves, I just have problems putting him at the top when Ali demonstrates better skill on multiple occasions.

Sergei is less of a great pilot and more of a great leader

>>14555605
Not to mention Lyle only killed him because Tieria turned his mech off

>>14555609
>All Ali does is go even with Setsuna who is a pretty shitty pilot
He completely destroys Setsuna in melee when Exia is the best melee ms in S1. Considering Graham goes dead even against a powered down Exia I'd say that's pretty indicative

>and then beating a Throne that was running low on energy and had its sword taken by Graham

Except Johan still had a beam saber and Ali had zero experience piloting Zwei and still made him look free. Plus Zwei was just as low on energy as Eins

>>14555605
Dude I'm an Ali and Aker fanboy equally but Ali gets surpassed by an injured Setsuna after the first third of season 2 without him needing to bother with Trans-AM or even before getting the 00 Raiser upgrade, and this a Setsuna who gets shot with a poisoned GN particle bullet.

>>14555637
>Ali demonstrates better skill.
Not really. Setsuna was a barely average pilot in Season 1, heavily reliant on the power and technological advantage of the Exia, and Ali knew how to counter all his moves and techniques because his fighting style as a pilot defaults back to the CQC training Ali taught him as a kid.

Ali has a massive advantage over Setsuna with all that.

Sergei is a shit pilot and is hyped by God and has nothing to show for it, going by Mizushima's words. Graham does the same shit as Ali and manages to damage and run off a Gundam unit with a Flag without having those advantages due to his skill.

>>14555648
This. People keep ignoring that Ali recognized Setsuna's fighting style from the get go and could counter and read his moves in all of their fights. You could put Setsuna in the original Gundam and Ali in a GM and Ali would dominate him in season 1 because he knows what and how Setsuna fights like.

Also people forget that the Enact Custom was superior to the regular Flag before Graham got upgraded with the Over-Flag and that thing has more advantages thanks to the solar power from the Orbital Elevators.

That one guy downplaying Aker's showing against Michael and Neil is pathetic.

>>14555641
You mean the part where Setsuna and Tieria get dismantled at once and require backup or the part where Setsuna barely goes even with Ali because of his innovator powers and then pulls out a win with Trans Am?

>>14555672
I mean neither of those times.

>>14555684
So Setsuna didn't surpass Ali in either of the two times he fought him in S2?

After S1 Graham had his buttboy Billy making him a new top-of-the-line custom suit every week for him to samurai shodown Setsuna with.

Ali on the other hand literally was never allowed to fight at his full potential because the final boss of the franchise thought he would be invincible if he was allowed to have the same tools as the people he was fighting.

Ali pretty much has no trouble in any fight he's in, ever, until Trans Am is activated and everyone can now move 30 times faster. It's absurd to try and downplay Ali. Graham has so many chances to prove himself. All the chances in the world. And he never does, because Graham is a sad shitter.

>>14555690
Setsuna surpassed him when he got shot by Ali while piloting the 00 Gundam with an injured shoulder and being poisoned by GN particles from the special bullet Ribbons had supplied them.

>>14550941
I mean he let banagher beat him but alright. If he wanted to kill him he would have.

Yes Daguza shot him with a bazooka. It scratched the paint on his suit; nothing more. He's piloting a prototype MS and easily defeated the two successors to his suit.

>>14555912
>I mean he let banagher beat him but alright. If he wanted to kill him he would have.
Are you serious? It was right after Daguza died, FF did literally nothing but run away from the rampaging Banana, got the leg of his suit ripped right out of its socket, got nearly cleaved by a giant beam slash, kept scrambling while trying to not get shot by the beam magnum and the only reason he didn't die was because a mook took the shot that was meant for him, FF was a faggot who would get fucked as soon as someone with actual skill came after his ass

But then again I guess that is the running theme for the sleeves, a bunch of retards running around doing stupid shit without reason

>>14549598
He's a decent pilot, but he doesn't have much that stands out compared to Yazan or Ali. He participated in retaking the California Base where he earned "The Blue Death" and then went to space to defeat BD-II. After that, there's pretty much nothing on his record other than him remaining an EFF pilot until he reappears in CCA in Gundam Legacy and the Missing Link, where he helps in the Axis Drop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX_jOMZvlM0

>>14555726
Surpassed him how? It was just like season 1 where he was getting his ass kicked and then pulled Trans am for the win

>>14556062
>It was just like season 1.
Know it wasn't. Hell Ali was struggling to beat him and this is a severely handicapped Setsuna who was shot in the arm and couldn't pilot efficiently who was still taking out his GN Fangs.

>>14555976
Whew the rage. I mean you just proved my point. Nearly got shot, nearly this, nearly that. But didn't. On a regular basis he out maneuvers and defeats suits stronger than his and overpowers the strongest of Newtype hacks. The guy is incredible.

While the famed char Aznable got shot down and lost his mobile suits time and time again, full Frontal only ever took superficial damage and at worst had to jettison a limb.

>>14551000
Sorry but, what is advanced in a beam helicopter mobile suit?
Or the fact that in victory we had units giving up on one arm just to be able to helicopter away?

I seriously never understood why victory ms are considered advanced.

>>14555976
FF was exactly like Char. In that he got his shit kicked in by the protag in every confrontation except the first.

>>14556062
Ali was getting his ass whooped so hard he took a plane hostage to get the upper hand. But even then, Setsuna beat in his shit.

>>14556685
Not to mention Setsuna did it with a hole in his arm

>>14556062
What? I'm pretty sure Setsuna was matching Ali at that point after getting shot, shown to be clearly visibly and physically affected by the wound, poisoned by the GN particles laced in it, destroyed some if not all of Ali's GN Fangs and he was getting pushed back to the point he had to take an aircraft hostage and THEN Setsuna used Trans-AM to decisively crush the Arche that he had to use the escape pod to run away.

Ali is top tier but you are massively inflating his showings here and being dishonest. Its the same shit of people wanking Neil who was matching Ali despite possessing only one functioning eye and forgetting Ali only had one day to get used to the Zwei and still wasn't fully mastering the Gundam yet.

Setsuna did crush Ali pretty badly in S2, but at that point he was already manifesting his Innovator powers, and Setsuna is one of the stronger Newtypes in the franchise.

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>>14556685
>he took a plane hostage

>>14556715
>wanking
You can't deny that was a good showing for Neil though. He had that fight in the bag if there wasn't outside intervention. The guy was pushing Ali back in melee

>>14556820
Yeah and it was bullshit. Almost as bad as Lyle getting to beat Ali because Ribbons is scared shitless of the Prince of Rapistan having Trans-AM to the point he intentionally nerfed the Arche repeatedly and it required his suit being shut off for Lyle to beat him.

>>14556841
Man people overhype Ali so much just because he can trash shitters like Setsuna and the throne pilots and never fights anyone good. Neil was a great pilot, and you can bet he would have got fucked up by Hal too.

>>14556878
>Overhype Ali
Nah, overhype Neil and Lyle more then anything else. Lyle only won the fight against Ali because when Ribbons had his control of Veda taken from him by the combined interference of Regene and Tieria, Ali's suit was shut down. Before that, even with an inferior Arche, he was matching Lyle and pushing his shit in.

The dude rag dolled Setsuna twice including in a two on one fight between the 00 and Seravee vs Arche. The same Tieria improving dramatically enough and not being so fucking reliant on Veda and his suit who could beat above average pilots like Bring Stabbity and Desty Nova in close combat.

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>>14548667
>but felt that Noin was aiming for second to make him look better. That doesn't mean she's better than him.

but it kinda does

>>14556885
Because Lyle is worse that Setsuna at piloting. He only just started to pilot mobile suits after he was recruited into Celestial Being.

>>14556902

Not him, but no it doesn't, since Academy scores are almost always going to be down to simulations and written exams, which don't really indicate that much compared to actual combat and experience. Someone doing well in a structured simulation with foreknowledge of relative safety doesn't mean they'll excel in live combat.

>>14556885
Lyle was fighting him pretty evenly, Ali looked like he had the upper hand a few times but he wasn't winning handily.

>>14556902
No. If there is a test with 1000 questions and person A gets 955 right while person B knows that they can get 950 right but miss some on purpose to make A look better that doesn't mean B is better.

>>14556904
No he isn't. He just sucks ass at long range sniping.

>>14556955
Lyle had a more advanced and upgraded Cherudim, he had a tech advantage on Ali because at that point the upgraded Meister's Gundams were literally just pipes with GN particles going through them. Even for all the damage Ali did to his suit, it could keep on fighting and this is someone where we saw Ali had the Cherudim shoved into a wall and Lyle being pushed back at the end of the first half of their final fight before a scene transition.

>>14550941
>where he got emasculated by a hooker
Stay mad, charfags.

>>14557058
They both blew up their remote weapons like 2 seconds into the fight and it was down to a pure melee contest pretty fast. If anything Cheridum is at a disadvantage.

>>14557521
Not really, like he said, at that point the upgraded Meister Gundams were pretty much hollowed suit with GN particles coming out of the ass. No matter how much damage one could do to them that wasn't totally incapacitating, they could keep fighting on with zero issue.

And it doesn't matter, because the end result was Ali only lost when Veda was severed from Ribbon's hands and the Arche was shut down. It was crapshoot anyway because Lyle should never have been keeping up with Ali in close combat to begin and the whole "GN beam gun/hatchet gun kata" bullshit in melee matching a fuck huge GN buster sword is beyond nonsensical.

>>14557566
And the arche isn't? I'm pretty sure Cheridum shoots off one of its arms and it keeps going no problem. Lost limbs don't mean shit in the 00 setting

>>14557521
Yes, but the point that anon was making was that the 00 Gundam/00 Raiser, Arios, Cherduim, and Seravee/Seraphim Gundams are pretty much hollowed out. The GN drivers are mounted in a way that the suits are powered as long as they're still drawing power from the solar furnaces. In a sense, yes, Ali was handicapped because the Arche was never upgraded at all during season 2, and is still a more conventionally built and designed mobile suit unlike what the Meisters or even Innovades get.

Ali ripped his GN Buster Sword across the neck and shoulders of the Cherudim, took out its foot, and one of its hands and it had zero impact on the Cherudim's power. All we know for CERTAIN is that the only reason Ali ended up losing was because his suit was forcibly powered down once CB took back Veda thanks to Regene and Tieria's mind-link technopathy hijinks.

It really doesn't seem however that Lyle could've held out much longer against Ali had that not happened.

>>14557589
Arche doesn't have that pipeline of GN particles concept in it at all. For the same reason why it doesn't have Trans-AM. And on top of that still mounts and draws power from a weaker and inferior performance wise GN Tau Drive.

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>>14557589
Arche doesn't have remotely the same tech setup as the Meister Gundams do, so no it doesn't dude. End of the day, Ali wouldn't have lost to Lockon 2.0 if a literal deus ex machina didn't turn off his Arche and leave him totally helpless and powered down.

Apparently neither did the Reborns either for that matter.

How good is the Susanoo? Can it be considered the strongest non-gundam type MS in the show?

>>14558142
Susanoowo was cool but it has like one fight under its belt. Hard to judge it based on that.

>>14557597
Keep on pulling shit out of your ass, maybe you'll dig up your head while you're at it.

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>was going to post a serious reply after I read the thread
>instead ended up realizing that I get triggered when people refer to Lockon as Neil
None of you fucks are calling Setsuna Soran, and Lockon's brother is introduced as Lyle. There's no reason to refer to Lockon by his real name.

Thanks for the new pet peeve, /m/

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>>14556685
>Ali was getting his ass whooped so hard he took a plane hostage

>>14557597

Not him but what the hell do limbs have anything to do with the GN power source? All GN suits of all factions and makes lose limbs and still work fine.

Even in season 1 limbs lost meant nothing. Ali himself had Zwei's arm chopped up and was still able to fight and beat Neil anyway. Doubleluyah was wrecking face in Kyrios that had almost half of it torn off, and Exia was still going after getting it's head and arm ripped off (so was the GN flag for that matter) and Exia was able to operate for 5 years with only a hastily patched on head and still no arm.

>>14558142
It's good enough to fight the raiser both in and out of Trans am. So yeah I'd say so. At that point in s2 graham was stronger than everyone except setsuna and ribbons.

>>14558251
Great rebuttal dude, stay salty faggot.