Godzilla/Shin Godzilla Thread #5: Codeine Goji Editon

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>>14517542
> Shin Chan Vs Shin Godzilla: 07/22

Already have one mate.
>>14517021

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>>14517542
A CHALLENGER APPROACHES!

>>14517559

Fuck Simon Strange for not letting Zilla in the game for personal reasons. Fucking Varan instead of all kaiju.

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>>14517558
But this is the "True" Godzilla Thread.

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>>14517576
This.
Strange lost all credibility after CKC, and apparently Zilla was going to be in the PSP version of Unleashed, but you saw where that went.

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>>14517587

I'm glad his game failed. Jumping on the Wii bandwagon was a mistake.

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>>14517605
That's what happens when you sell your soul to furries for money.

Unleashed would've been better if they had an option to switch between the motion controls and a normal Controller style.

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Where are we on the rumors? There is still Kaiju A and Kaiju B to explain. Seems August Ragone debunked the multiple forms concept a while back:

http://www.scified.com/topic/41699

Does that mean no tadpole? Maybe whoever reported on the tadpole mistook it as Godzilla's tail? Are there other monster(s)? Could it be just throwaway merchandise?

The latest version of the rumor is that Godzilla is replicating and part of his tail might break off to form a separate entity.

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Looking at western critical reactions to the Godzilla franchise as a whole, The one with the highest Rotten Tomatoes score is the 60s Mothra one, but that seems to be the result of a LOT of people who are honest, unironic Godzilla fans reviewing it (but I can't confirm since the reviews are not available); and even then, one of the positive ones still states that "Yes, Mothra vs. Godzilla is bad, but it so revels in its sheer badness that you cannot help but like it".

Looking at the reviews of other films, you'll find comments like "what the fuck, why are they still using rubber suits". There's only one regular reviewer, Tim Brayton, who seems to really understand the medium.

Roger Ebert's view on it is particularly bizarre; he read the 1985 film as an ironic so-bad-it's-good comedy; he said that the special effects were MEANT to be horrible. That the suits were MEANT to be garbage. And since it (according to him) attempted to make a bad film on purpose, the entire point of watching a bad film was lost because it was intentional and thus not funny anymore.

The difference being that, well... the western fanbase considers it a serious movie that brings back the darker elements of the first Godzilla. Which is the polar fucking opposite.

Ebert praised the 1995 Gamera movie, but only because it was "honestly bad" once again as opposed to "ironically bad". He praised its hilarious unintentional comedy and the nostalgia of watching such Objectively Bad Cinema as a kid back in the day. Siskel actually questioned this and said "no, I don't think this movie is very good but I think a lot of the classic men-in-rubber-suits movies ARE genuienly good cinema so why would you recommend this over those?"; Ebert obviously had a radically different view of kaiju films so he just dropped it. He's also cited the Hedorah movie as one of the worst he's ever seen in his life, while a tokufag friend of mine says it's the best one without a hint of irony.

[cont.in next post sry]

>>14517636
Why not debate Ebert's opinions with him? If you like it don't let his review stop you.

>>14517628
So far the latest rumor I know of is that:
>Godzilla in some way causes large bodies of water to turn Red.
>Something big is supposed to happen Halfway through the film.
>Godzilla somewhere in the film begins to replicate itself, and many "faces" are seen.
>One of the plot of the film is the Japanese Government trying to keep Godzilla from returning to the ocean/water.
>The Climax takes place around Tokyo Station.
>A train full of explosives/Something, that's supposed to "Kill" Godzilla.

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>>14517621
>KingGoji

You've got some fantastic taste, anon.

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>>14517636
>The one with the highest Rotten Tomatoes score is the 60s Mothra one
I think you might have overlooked something very important

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>>14517636
Meanwhile in Japan, I suspect things are very different. They know the special effects are not scary or believable anymore... but they don't care. Just as they didn't care that their classic art was not "muh detail"-focused like the ~GENETICALLY CREATIVE AND SUPERIOR WHITE MASTER RACE~ were doing around the same time. The way anime isn't afraid of being a series of drawings and style-shifts all the time to create atmosphere, while the west is far more focused on having the Disney value of "illusion of life"; of the hand of the artist not mattering. They've even had traditional buppet shows where you can see the puppeteers for eons.

So basically, I suspect Japan sees these movies as good, and doesn't enjoy them in the ironic cynical "haha this is so bad the people who made this are stupid, that makes it good in an ironic way" manner that Ebert enjoyed or simply hating them for being "pathetic dated garbage". I think the staff try their best to make them unironically good cinema with impressive cinematography and cool stories and monster ideas despite the fact that you can tell it's men in suits. I don't believe for a second that most Japanese audiences watch these movies for American-esque ironic hipster "haha I'm laughing at what a piece of shit this is" reasons... but I also lack the knowledge of Japan to confirm this with objective proof.

All I have is the fact that the Heisei Godzilla vs King Ghidra movie was considered 'stupid suit garbage' by westernern critics and yet received an award for special effects in Japan. There HAS to be more.

I'm asking this because I want to make a video about these suspected cultural differences.

>>14517646
>>14517666
But anyway, that's not my point, read the continuation post >>14517676

anyway I meant to say "beyond the 50s movie" because the effects weren't THAT dated then (only Ebert said they were) and it was the most serious, timely and political one with the "so important" bomb allegory so IMO they decided it was a classic despite hating all the others except Mothra (which some only like in a The Room/Plan 9 From Outer Space way)

>Why not debate Ebert's opinions with him? If you like it don't let his review stop you.
Ebert's dead nigga, and even while he was alive he got too high on his fame and became an "I'm objectively right about everything" jerk. I also think he was brilliant in a bunch of other ways and I'm sad that he died.

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>>14517650
Thanks, Have some KKvsG concept art.

>>14517636
Ebert was literally the Stereotypical American who watches a Godzilla. Nothing would've please him when it came down to Kaiju films, they would always been seen as "Inferior film" in comparison to "Classics".

>>14517676
The Japanese tend to know the value of one's work, and are more willing to expand to suspension of disbelief compared to Americans.

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>>14517636
>>14517676
Basically if people want to answer, read both these posts. I want to know if there's a big difference in how Japan treats Godzilla vs. how America does it as far as irony vs genuine "yeah it's silly but it's still good" enjoyment goes.

Do Japanese CRITICS treat almost all post-50s Godzilla in the same hateful or "le ironic so bad it's good" way? Is it, as far as critics are concerned, the Friday the 13th of Japan (i.e. the great majority is absolutely hated by the critics and even the fans will admit they're "objectively bad" movies)?

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>>14517713
Thank you, I've been searching everywhere for all kinds of KingGoji media. Art, games, etc.

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>>14517713
>Ebert was literally the Stereotypical American who watches a Godzilla. Nothing would've please him when it came down to Kaiju films, they would always been seen as "Inferior film" in comparison to "Classics".
The thing that annoys me is that he liked anime that didn't do the "illusion of life" thing, but when it comes to cinema he was instantly dismissive of it.

>The Japanese tend to know the value of one's work, and are more willing to expand to suspension of disbelief compared to Americans.
Yeah but is there anything I could offer as proof of this, or that this
>Do Japanese CRITICS treat almost all post-50s Godzilla in the same hateful or "le ironic so bad it's good" way? Is it, as far as critics are concerned, the Friday the 13th of Japan (i.e. the great majority is absolutely hated by the critics and even the fans will admit they're "objectively bad" movies)?
is untrue beyond a mere "well, it makes sense to me that it isn't"? What could I offer beyond the award that Ghidrah film won?

I have a ton of stuff to say about Japanese vs eastern philosophy in art and suspension of disbelief, but I lack the knowledge to offer cold hard facts of Japan not treating this stuff the same way.

>>14517740
So basically I'd like some cold hard proof audiences in Japan don't treat Godzilla the same "I'm only watching this because it's bad" way or "I like this but it's a guilty pleasure because it's objectively bad" ironic way that American viewers do, or that Japanese critics don't consider any of the movies good aside from 60s Mothra (probalby for irony reasons) and then the first one.

I don't live in Japan and don't know how to navigate the Japanese internet, so I can't dig up user scores or critic reviews or anything of the sort beyond Amazon reviews.

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>>14517579
I hate that that image has the wrong brand of Raisin Bran. The California Raisins were the mascots for Post Raisin Bran, not Kellogg's Raisin Bran -- Kellogg's is the Sun saying "two scoops!"

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>>14517752
Oh and even if I came across Amazon reviews I wouldn't be able to read them and decide if they're being ironic or not

>>14517636
>>14517676
>>14517719

I think guys like David Kalat wrote at length that yes, there is a drastically different approach to viewing special effect movies in the two countries. He explained that there was even a Japanese-American co-produced film called Virus (don't recall its original title) that had realistic effects done by western technicians, but they deleted these and redid them with "fake" looking ones for the Japanese market, even though they went over budget and the movie didn't do well financially.

Koichi Kawakita also went on record saying that Jurassic Park's effects looked "too realistic" for his liking, although that guy isn't exactly famous in the fandom for his stellar effects-work post King Ghidorah, so take his opinion on the matter however you may.

There's also that anecdote about the cast of GMK sitting down to watch KKvsG during shooting breaks, and when one of the younger actresses started chuckling at the effects, the situation quickly evolved into a lecture about how the effects were never meant to be realistic, but fun and evocative. So there's also a generational gap even in Japan. Granted, KKvsG isn't well liked for its effects either, but Tsuburaya was pretty famous for placing fun above realism in some of his works (like when he had Baragon attack a purposely fake as fuck looking horse model in Frankenstein Conquers the World).

And for what it's worth, I also read in Kalat's book that Japanese critics were pretty harsh towards most Japanese films made in the early 90s, the Godzilla ones included. Don't know what has or hasn't changed since then.

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>>14517740
>"The thing that annoys me is that he liked anime that didn't do the "illusion of life" thing, but when it comes to cinema he was instantly dismissive of it."
Personally, I never liked the man.
I've never cared for someone who called themselves a "Professional Critic".
If views on a lot of movies always seemed to be geared toward "Tunnel Vision", and anything not within that circle is automatically bad.

>"Yeah but is there anything I could offer as proof of this, or that this"
Nothing other than personal experience with those in that type of Culture and here say.

From those I've talked with, a lot look at the films as a "Tired" and "Otaku" concept that needs to be put to rest. It's about the same as it is in America, just without the ridicule of it being a "Man in a rubber suit", and just seen as more "Childish".
Pretty much in the way my friend described, Shin Godzilla is like the Nolan Batman films.

>>14517676
>watch these movies for American-esque ironic hipster "haha I'm laughing at what a piece of shit this is" reasons
>>14517719
>treat almost all post-50s Godzilla in the same hateful or "le ironic so bad it's good" way
>>14517752
>"I'm only watching this because it's bad" way or "I like this but it's a guilty pleasure because it's objectively bad" ironic way that American viewers do
There's a lot of really broad generalizations that I don't think are true but tackling the main one, I think Godzilla has a fair-sized group of genuine fans in North America.

And so critics don't like it, there's been plenty of disparity between critical and fan reception with movies in general.

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>>14517697
Personal feelings of pleasure aside, pic related is literally one of the worst things to happen to the franchise. It's honestly a terrible film. Rushed production and Godzilla was slapped on for marque value at the last minute. Even the Japanese rejected it. For some reason the North American distributors marketed Megalon heavily in the United States and it became the most widely viewed of Godzilla films for years to come. It received a prime-television premiere on NBC and was the butt of jokes. Godzilla vs Megalon shaped the perception of Godzilla for many and it has not be easy trying to change that.

It's a little difficult finding Japanese reviews for these films. Especially ones for the earlier entries. During Godzilla's Golden Age, he was a unique creature. American special effects films didn't really become a thing until Star Wars (minus a few exceptions) and Godzilla filled that void for a few decades. Even as times changed, he had become ingrained into popular culture. Regardless of whether you think the films are any good, the concepts are almost always interesting.

"I think that Japanese monster movies like Godzilla are charming in that there’s an agreement between the filmmaker and the audience to look past surface flaws, like the fact that the creature is obviously being played by a man in a rubber suit. In America, we spend a fortune erasing all seams that allow moviegoers the pleasure of knowing that what they’re watching is obviously special effects. Because of that, much time is spent making something technically perfect but often empty in terms of its soul.”

>>14517767
Any links to the respective articles?

>>14517780
I'm asking if Japan has a lot of genuine fans and critical acclaim for the better movies (beyond 60s Mothra and the first one) or if most of them are of the hipster variety

or even if the movies themselves are made to be "so bad it's good garbage to laugh at"

>>14517800
Adding to this.
I've been curious to know how the Japanese liked G14. I've seen the posts about him being "Fat", but not of the actual film.

>>14517786
I remember being so pissed when my mom bought me a vhs tape of this. I like the MST3k cut, but god, that movie is garbage and even as a diehard fan I have never, ever liked it.

>>14517786
>"I think that Japanese monster movies like Godzilla are charming in that there’s an agreement between the filmmaker and the audience to look past surface flaws, like the fact that the creature is obviously being played by a man in a rubber suit. In America, we spend a fortune erasing all seams that allow moviegoers the pleasure of knowing that what they’re watching is obviously special effects. Because of that, much time is spent making something technically perfect but often empty in terms of its soul.”
This is a quote worth using in the video, but ultimately it's still an "I think" without much objectiveness.

Like maybe, for all I know I'm delusional and the post-Mothra movies are made to be, and considered, objectively bad.

>>14517809
See, that's the thing. Fans see that movie as garbage because they actually take Godzilla more seriously than the le irony types. But for people like Ebert there is no difference between that movie and the ones the fans like; he either hates it or gets purely ironic enjoyment from it.

>>14517809
I remember buying the Tape from Dollar General when I was very young, it was either it or Godzilla vs the Sea Monster.
Though the first time watching it was during TNT's monster Madness, the fucking Dolphin boat the kid rode before it got sucked into the lake, scared the shit out of me as a child.

>>14517773
>From those I've talked with, a lot look at the films as a "Tired" and "Otaku" concept that needs to be put to rest.
What does "a lot" mean? Most mainstream things have people that hate them. Tons of people in Japan think One Piece is mediocre and yet most people like it.

I'm asking about GENERAL opinions. Are most Godzilla fans in Japan ironic hipster fags who think the movies are so-bad-it's good? Do the critics GENERALLY treat them as objectively bad films?

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ITT: people go turboautist and actually give a shit about a dead jew's opinions on movies, instead of actually talking about the movie in the thread's OP.

Jesus christ people, just like what you like and stop giving a damn about the opinions of self-aggrandizing asshats as if those views actually matter.

>>14517767
>There's also that anecdote about the cast of GMK sitting down to watch KKvsG during shooting breaks, and when one of the younger actresses started chuckling at the effects, the situation quickly evolved into a lecture about how the effects were never meant to be realistic, but fun and evocative.
Source?

>I think guys like David Kalat wrote at length that yes, there is a drastically different approach to viewing special effect movies in the two countries. He explained that there was even a Japanese-American co-produced film called Virus (don't recall its original title) that had realistic effects done by western technicians, but they deleted these and redid them with "fake" looking ones for the Japanese market, even though they went over budget and the movie didn't do well financially.
Do you have any specific quotes (like the one about making the Virus effects more "fake"), and if not, the book where he talks about this the most?

>>14517834
This isn't about Ebert, I'm asking people about Japan's view of Godzilla. Read the thread.

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>>14517814
You can defend a number of the early Godzilla films. These include Mothra vs Godzilla, Monster Zero, and, to an extent, Godzilla vs Hedorah. I think the filmmakers were honestly doing their best despite the many limitations and restraints. At the very least, they are brimming with creativity, usually have something of value to say, and have somewhat respectable production value. If you're honest, the special effects of films like Mothra vs Godzilla really aren't too bad. Sure, they aren't ultra realistic. But they hold well.

The Japanese sort off turned against the genre in the 2000s. Toho ran it into the ground by producing a kaiju film every year between 1991-2004. Many of of which were painfully mediocre. Objectively, the Heisei films are pretty poor products. Unlike the Showa Era, there is no real excuse. Toho was simply being lazy and trying to sell merchandise. The films were an afterthought. Compare them to the Heisei Gamera films. Made with much less money mind you.

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>>14517834
Yet, it's better than TK shitposting.

Anyone have the gif of G2k Goji getting hit by the lighting lamp and catching on fire, and the gif of Destroyah braking it's wires and falling flat on it's face?

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>>14517843
>to an extent, Godzilla vs Hedorah
That movie is pure kino and possibly the best in the whole franchise.

I actually love that movie and think it's good as both a godzilla movie and on its own merits.

>>14517814
I'm a fan and I don't hate any Godzilla film. Granted, I didn't grow up on reruns of Godzilla vs. Megalon or anything like that, but even at its weirdest or most juvenile, Godzilla movies appeal to me -- more so the Showa and Heisei era than the Millennium films. I don't care for the American films, but I can at least understand the reasoning behind them and accept the design changes (I personally think that Zilla is more unique because of his drastic departure in looks -- at least even casual fans can discern him in a line-up of variations of Godzilla through the years).

I just don't understand the need to hate any part of a franchise you love. You don't have to care for it, but at least accept it as part of the evolution of a series.

I can take Godzilla movies seriously and I can take them non-seriously. I don't understand why it has to be so black and white. Why can't people love something fully but also realize what it is they love and view it from an objective perspective where they can also laugh and take the piss out of their own hobby? The effects and creatures delight the child in me while the political circumstances presented in the films entertainment the adult in me. I can joke about Godzilla and recite stupid dub lines but also be endeared because of those traits.

>>14517855
Hedorah is one of my favorite monster's to date.
The movie it uber cheesy and made in such a bizarre way(The Godzilla toy shed, Fish heads, Covering a cat in shit, Godzilla flying, "SAVE THE EAAARTH!") that you can't help but to love it.

I just wish Toho would've attempted bring Hedorah back as a primary monster again, rather than the excuse we got in Final Wars.

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>>14517855
I'm working on a source, though allegedly Banno went over budget and Toho told him to scrap the film. So supposedly he and his team had to scrape things together in order to complete it. If true it's definitely interesting.

And it's one of my personal favorites and objectively I think it has its merit. Similar to G54, it's a unique experience.

>>145178>>14517843
What "excuse" are you talking about?
>Compare them to the Heisei Gamera films. Made with much less money mind you.
Because if you mean 'it's old so it feels campy' then those have the exact same "campy guys in suits" quality as the Godzilla stuff from the same era and received the exact same reaction from western critics.

I've never come across the claim that Japan hated the 1991-2004 stuff or that they're all bad movies and I don't know how they could go "ugh, shit special effects" at Godzilla but then eat up Gamera. Are you sure you're actually knowledgeable about Japanese trends and not just projecting your opinion?43

>>14517872
>I can take Godzilla movies seriously and I can take them non-seriously. I don't understand why it has to be so black and white. Why can't people love something fully but also realize what it is they love and view it from an objective perspective where they can also laugh and take the piss out of their own hobby?
This just sounds like "yeah Batman is pretty silly but I like the stuff". I wasn't talking with genuine love with self awareness, but of pure hipster 'so bad it's good' irony.

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>>14517825
Hideaki Anno (1/2):
After the production of EVANGELION: 3.0 YOU CAN (NOT) REDO, I was broken. A so-called depression set in. It was the comeuppance for six years that drained my soul. 2013 came and went. That was a year in which negative memories rumbled back, over and over. While I could represent myself, it became impossible for me to even physically go near the studio, even once, because of the burden of the next film [EVAGELION 4]. Early 2014. I was finally able to return to the studio. Then, I gradually got back into working, because of that year of self-rehabilitation.

So, it’s 2015. After 20 years after the premiere of the old EVA; and you've been waiting more than two years since you last bought your tickets, so I’m working towards realizing the completion of the new EVANGELION theatrical features (why am I promoting it, already?). To those who follow me, and all the anime fans, it’s only through your continued support that gives me the motivation to move forward, again, towards the finale. Sincerely, I thank you.

And, now, at the same time, I’m also starting work putting together a visual effects fantasy film. This all started at the end of January, 2013. A representative from Toho contacted me directly, saying, “We’d like to direct a new Godzilla film.” At the time, I was still recovering from EVA 3.0, and right on the spot, flatly refused the offer, “It’s impossible. Even to begin work on the next EVA is impossible.”

>>14517872
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_MfPqfGiFM

>>14517839
You're the one who brought him up, so obviously you give a shit.

Just realize that plebs are shit and none of their views matter unless they have a direct influence on your life.

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>>14517907
Hideaki Anno (2/3):
Eventually, it was Toho’s sincerity and the enthusiasm of my ally, Director Shinji Higuchi, and I decided to take the job as Director that March. My prayer is that this will not be just a repeat of science fiction visuals of the past, and the wish we put into the Tokusatsu Museum Exhibit, was to embody the idea of giving back to the creators and artists who came before us, which was our intention and our responsibility. And when that epiphany occurred to me, my resolution was to undertake this task.

Now, one does because they can, not because they cannot. I made my decision because this is a new, once-in-a-lifetime chance. This is not EVA. This is not an original creation of my own, and is something I’ve never done before — this is why I decided to do it.

That May, I began my work with pen to paper. And I decided on how I was going to depict the principal subject. And in the following month, June, I submitted my G-Project Memos and Story Proposals to Toho, and then began working on the Plot Outline, etc.

Godzilla exists in a world of science fiction, not only of dreams and hopes, but he's a caricature of reality, a satire, a mirror image. Recently, Japan has also been careless in the way it has attempted to depict him. In all honesty, Japanese production budgets and schedules are so tight, compared to the world’s capitol [Hollywood], not to mention the constraints imposed on filmmakers in terms of content. Frankly, I’m not sure how far outside the lines we can go.

>>14517900
But why focus so much on that when there's more to the audience's views than that? I think you're making a much bigger thing of it than it actually is.

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>>14517925
Hideaki Anno (3/3):
However, movies have pride, even trifling little films; therefore, just as in the case of the new EVAs, I’m going in full force. When I think about what I’ve accomplished, the twists and turns befitting a screenplay, everything has led to this point. I write this with the hope that the reader might understand at least to some degree that no matter what a creator says, it’s just an excuse, but I’m under pressure to make a visual effects fantasy film representative of modern Japan, with the full awareness of our current situation, which will be subjected to intentions both good and bad.

Finally, to all those of you who have given me support, to all the fans who’ve purchased tickets to my films, to everyone who has given me the will to continue with my works, I’m eternally grateful. Thank you.

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Crazy how you guys take Godzilla movies so seriously.

>>14517933
Source?

>>14517940
Must be interesting to live a [[current year]] life devoid of passion or personal interests.

>>14517921
I want to know more about how "campy so-bad-it's-good garbage" element is in Godzilla in order to make a write-up and I've gotten a bajillion opinions, from "Japan hated Godzilla from 1991 to 2004 and thought all the movies were shit and hated the bad dated effects because they were campy rubber suit bullshit and didn't have the excuse of the 60s stuff" (offering no sources) to "Japan cares less about realistic effects so they're not bothered"

I've never in my fucking life heard of this general Japanese hate for the Heisei era.

A guy mentioned an author and some anecdotes that sounded interesting but absolutely no sources or quotes so I have no idea where to start

>>14517940
The funny thing is that like Anon posted above, despite most the films being below "Quality" Standards, the most fun films(Scenes) are always referred back to and remembered with strong memories.

>>14517932
>I think you're making a much bigger thing of it than it actually is.
It's not, dude. Watching Godzilla like it's Plan 9 From Outer Space is pretty common.

>>14517900
Oh, I get that. But I can't really comprehend that ironic hipster mindset. Then again, I've never met anyone who wasn't 20 years older than me who actually liked Godzilla and had more cursory knowledge other than "radioactive dinosaur rubber suit man and bad dubbing" that most people have. From what I can tell with the internet, others around my age (late 20s) are usually much more autistic with their Godzilla hobby or just spend more time picking things apart that don't need picking apart and complaining about things that don't matter or are irrelevant to Godzilla and tokusatsu as a whole.

I'd like to visit G-Fest sometime in the future if possible, but I'm also extremely wary of other fans because there's a chance I'll be isolated even among fellow aficionados because of things like "you need to know this much to be a true fan" or "you like a certain movie I don't like", etc. Makes it very hard for a friendless loner to connect with others in his hobby when they're all just divided into factions which hate one another (which goes for any hobby, I suppose).

>>14517855
I adore the movie's "patchwork" style and wish there were more movies like it.

>>14517962
But this guy is acting like it's the main facet of viewers in America and I really don't think it is. Like I said, there's more to the audiences than just that.

>>14517843
>>14517883
Seriously where did "Japan generally hated all the Godzilla movies from 1991 to 2004 and were bothered by the special effects because they didn't have the excuse of being made in the 60s" come from

Because honestly some of those look like the most fun.

>>14517987
Heisei is the most marketable Godzilla, so something must've went right with it.

>>14517883
On one hand I'm saying in the 90s/2000s Toho flooded the market. That is undeniable. And the quality of films probably mattered too. G98 didn't help matters. Note that GMK was the most successful film of the Millennium Era. Critically and commercially. Shusuke Kaneko (director and writer of GMK) was an outsider who managed to obtain a little more freedom than Toho offered its studio directors and writers. They only turned to him because fortunes were heading downhill at the time. After Kaneko left, Toho returned to business as usual and things went south again. This culminated in the miserable flop that was Godzilla Final Wars. Gamera the Brave came out two years later and flopped horribly. And, aside from Ultraman, the kaiju industry was largely quiet in Japan until recently.

>>14517951
http://augustragone.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-directors-of-godzilla-2016-speak.html

so needy...

>>14517980
I went to G-Fest this past weekend and all the people I met were very welcoming to other people's viewpoints of the series, and tokusatsu in general.

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>>14517767
>>14517792
>>14517836
Seriously you sound like the only person who could answer my questions, I'd just like some links or citations

Also do you think this guy's claims are true >>14517843 (he also seems to be implying that jp audiences were bothered by "dated" effects in the 1991-2004 films because there was "no excuse" for it now)

I'm not gonna read a bunch of books about Godzilla by a guy just to reach to the 1-3 chapters that I actually care about

>>14518006
That's good to hear. Hopefully it'll remain that way until I get a chance to attend one.

>>14517809
>>14517814
Fuck you man I love Vs. Megalon, and I'm a pretty hardcore Godzilla fan. Don't even care for MST3K

>>14518003
You say it was the most marketable and yet >>14518005 says that they were horrible movies and Japan hated them.
>G98 didn't help matters.
But it was an american audience-targeted film made by a different staff that was barely godzilla WHY WOULD IT MATTER
>And the quality of films probably mattered too.
Once again I want to know what you mean by this "quality", how were they worse than what came before? And you've not addressed this

>What "excuse" are you talking about?
>I've never come across the claim that Japan hated the 1991-2004 stuff or that they're all bad movies and I don't know how they could go "ugh, shit special effects" at Godzilla but then eat up Gamera.

>>14517792
>>14517836
>>14518015

The Virus movie: Page 617 of the book 'Keep Watching the Skies!: American Science Fiction Movies of the Fifties' and page 52 in 'A Critical History and Filmography of Toho's Godzilla Series', both can be found on Google Books. Kalat also talks about the differing viewpoints with regards to the effects in one of his commentaries on the Criterion release of the 1954 movie (I think it's in the commentary of the American cut, but I'm not certain).

The latter book discusses the opinions of early 90s Japanese film critics on page 203.

As for the GMK story, I can't find any online sources at the moment (I read one a while ago but my browser history's gone), but it was also related in the updated version of Kalat's book. Unless someone finds a web source, I can scan the page from my copy if you really need the citation.

>>14518029
Honestly the people who hate it because of MST3K are tools because MST3K would have shit equally on a ton of the fan-approved movies.

Mike Nelson is now a pandering has-been who's too old to understand technology so he's sucking the dicks off of everyone from Lowtax to Screw Attack for fame

>>14518003
Quality and profit are two different issues here. Yes, the last several Heisei films (Godzilla vs Mothra - Godzilla vs Destoroyah) were very successful in a financial sense. But in a post-Star Wars world, the effects are inexcusable and the writing/acting leaves much to be desired. They were primarily films produced to sell merchandise. The Heisei Gamera films are better in almost every category. Anyway, about the flooding of the market. Between 1991-2004 there was Godzilla vs King Ghidorah, Godzilla vs Mothra, Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla, Godzilla vs Destoroyah, Godzilla 1998, Gamera: Guardian of the Universe, Gamera: Advent of Legion, Gamera: Revenge of Iris, Rebirth of Mothra, Rebirth of Mothra II, Rebirth of Mothra III, Godzilla 2000, Godzilla vs Megaguirus, GMK, Godzilla x MechaGodzilla, Godzilla Tokyo SOS, Godzilla Final Wars. After G98, you see an almost consistent downwards trend (except for GMK).

>>14518031
G98 hurt the brand name. Information here:

http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2015/05/10/godzilla-unmade-the-history-of-jan-de-bonts-unproduced-tristar-film-part-1/

>>14518044
but what about this guy saying that most of Japan hated the 1991-2004 era and said they were awful movies >>14517843
>>14517987

>where did "Japan generally hated all the Godzilla movies from 1991 to 2004 and were bothered by the special effects because they didn't have the excuse of being made in the 60s" come from

>Because honestly some of those look like the most fun.

> Kalat also talks about the differing viewpoints with regards to the effects in one of his commentaries on the Criterion release of the 1954 movie (I think it's in the commentary of the American cut, but I'm not certain).
Is this torrentable? I'm too poor to amazon now.

>>14518059
It hurt the brand name but I'm talking about Japanese audience and critic reactions to the JAPANESE '91-04 films.

>>14518061
Pretty much every Godzilla film can be found somewhere online, go for it.

And don't feel bad about downloading these films, scalpers like pricing DVD's outside of any reasonable person's budget.

>>14518045
I hated it before I saw the MST3k version. I hate the shitty dub. I hate the nonsensical plot. I hate the bad set design and dismally low budget.

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New shot of the "Prop(?)".

>>14518059

In an alternate universe, the 94 movie came out instead of 98.

vagina mouth

>>14518068
if you're the same guy then please address the earlier point cuz I dunno about the 91/04 stuff being hated but if japs thought those were 'dated and campy' then my entire theory about Japan vs Western views of special effects goes down the fucking drain.

>>14518045
I hate it because it exemplifies everything awful about Showa Godzilla and Showa toku in general, same like the old Kamen Riders, Sentai, Ultraman etc.

>>14518077
>>14518068
Also I'm asking if a version with that commentary track is torrentable cuz I wanna hear those lines

>>14518061
>but what about this guy saying that most of Japan hated the 1991-2004 era and said they were awful movies
Beats me, I don't recall reading about this in particular. From what I remember from Kalat's book, the reception of the movies fluctuated a lot (as others have said, GMK was pretty well liked, whereas stuff like Megaguirus tanked), but as a general tendency, Japanese audiences started craving American cinema. But yeah, the exact details escape me, maybe I should check if the book says anything about this.

>>14518087
Sure, that's where I got it from. But Kalat basically says the same things he wrote about in his book.

>>14518077
Sorry, not the same guy.

Besides, the Japanese aren't a monolith: they don't all have the same opinion on tokusatsu. Just like how there are American film goers who disagree with the style of movies being made in America, I'm sure there are Japanese film goers who feel the same. As long as there's a market of people who do enjoy these movies, they'll continue to be made.

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>>14518087
>>14518077
>>14518061
>>14518044
Like, honestly man you seem very knowledgeable and I really wanna find out the truth about Japan's general opinion of Godzilla and "ugh, dated and campy" special effects. given that I monetize my Youtube videos, I could pay you for helping me out. Is there a way I could contact you outside of 4chan? If you're too much of a not-faggot to not abandon your anonymity

>Unless someone finds a web source, I can scan the page from my copy if you really need the citation.

And yeah I'd like a scan of that.

>>14518104
Can you give me the filename so I can look for that specific torrent?

also read >>14518107 pls I'd like to keep in contact with you for my video. I want it to be both interesting as a philosophical thing with a lot of maybes in it thing but also have real facts in it and you'd be able to provide the facts.

>>14518107
>If you're too much of a not-faggot to not abandon your anonymity I'll do it
fixed

I can give you my Email or Skype or Twitter or Tumblr or Facebook or whatever the hell you use

>>14517676
>They know the special effects are not scary or believable anymore... but they don't care. Just as they didn't care that their classic art was not "muh detail"-focused like the ~GENETICALLY CREATIVE AND SUPERIOR WHITE MASTER RACE~ were doing around the same time. The way anime isn't afraid of being a series of drawings and style-shifts all the time to create atmosphere, while the west is far more focused on having the Disney value of "illusion of life"; of the hand of the artist not mattering. They've even had traditional buppet shows where you can see the puppeteers for eons.
Seriously what.

>~GENETICALLY CREATIVE AND SUPERIOR WHITE MASTER RACE~
Chill out a little

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>>14518067
G98 was released in JAPAN and under-performed. If you check attendance and box office for the Japanese films following said film, you'll see the franchise was less successful. That's why I attribute it to over saturation.

Shogo Tomiyama brought in Shūsuke Kaneko to help the struggling series after G2000 and Godzilla vs. Megaguirus didn't meet expectations. If GMK didn't do well, Toho was planning to put the series back into retirement. Shūsuke Kaneko was chosen because his Gamera films received critical acclaim and Shogo Tomiyama was slightly jealous about them. Source is pic related and the article was written by Norman England.

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Do you guys think Godzilla vs Biollante was a good movie? I feel like it had the potential to be more than it was, but it's always had a lasting impression on me for its originality, even if it got a bit convoluted. It felt like they were trying to do something a little bit differently, and I actually liked all of its elements, from the Americans trying to steal G-cell samples and the middle eastern spy to the military vs Godzilla and the psychic elements. The scene little kids holding up their pictures of godzilla was gold.

>>14518114
There's two torrents I found which may be it:

Godzilla, King of the Monsters! Criterion Collection 1956 1080p BDRip H264 AAC - KiNGDOM
Godzilla 1954 1080p Criterion Bluray DTS x264-GCJM

If memory serves, I think I downloaded the first one (I had to delete it since then, so I can't check my folders). The quote about the effects comes up around the part when Godzilla smashes the trains, either in the commentary of the original version or the American cut (as said, I think it's the latter).

Also, in the meantime I ran through some chapters of Kalat's book. He doesn't write a lot about the Japanese reactions specifically, but he claims that the Heisei movies would have eventually gotten unprofitable had Toho continued making them. Megaguirus, the two Kiryu movies and Final Wars also underperformed at the Jap box office compared to Toho's expectations. It should be noted that around this time, Godzilla movies were paired with Hamtaro films in theaters, so they were aimed squarely at kids. When GMK became a surprise hit, people at Toho falsely believed that it was mostly because of the popularity of the Hamtaro movie, not because GMK was actually good.

Also, sure, you can give an email address if you'd like (I don't really use the other services). I won't be able to respond too quickly though, 'cause I gotta get some sleep already, it's fucking morning here.

>>14518148
Unrelated but: What were the actually-successful films in the 91-2004 era in Japan? What about the most critically-liked ones?

>because his Gamera films received critical acclaim
...isn't this pretty much THE perfect proof that the claim of "Japan hated some of the Heisei films because they looked campy and ugly" is bullshit?

And... also perfect proof of my theory of Godzilla fans in Japan generally not being bothered by 'campy' unrealistic special effects and still unironically appreciating the film? Roger Ebert & other reviewers treated it like campy garbage to either shit on or laugh at; if Japanese critics thought the films were good then that confirms my theory.

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Toho's exploitation aside, there was a cultural shift on Japan during the lost decade. NGE wasn't the disease but the symptom. From what I read on these threads, no one is excited for the Resurgence on Japan besides the aging fanbase

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>>14518169
Okay, thanks for all the help you gave me so far. [email protected] is my email. Send me one when you can so I can keep in contact.

(deadstockparadise was taken so I just added a stupid meme in there, it's dumb but I couldn't think of anything else)

>>14518169
I think I found what he's looking for:

Godzilla 1954 Criterion Extras 720p AC3 x264-GCJM

Looks like it has multiple interviews, including Akira Takarada and Akira Ifukube

>>14518177
I'm looking for a commentary track actually.

>>14518177
>>14518175
>>14518169
>>>/t/
we have a board for this

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>>14518173

Everything is going to be okay, anon.

>>14518194
I don't know, sometimes I think the Heisei generation has adopted the western "realism" but with more idols

>>14518179
Ah, whoops.

I looked into it and the blu-ray mentioned by >>14518169 should have Kalat's commentary as an audio track.

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>>14518194
>In twenty years, Godzilla will either:
>Return to it's silly and wacky Showa roots due to a rise in demand.
or
>Godzilla will become something that will make Shin blush and coward in the corner.

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>>14518203
>>14518214

All we can do is play the waiting game. I'm here for you.

>>14518173
That may be true, but if this movie is as good as it looks, maybe the "Resurgence" title won't be just a fancy word

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>>14518214
Learn to enjoy everything Godzilla has to offer.

It's all good man.

>>14518218
This put a smile on my face.

>>14518214
Earl?

>>14518205
Thanks brah.

>>14518214
Japan will never willingly evoke the Showa trash again, the stigma is something that just like Kamen Rider they worked hard to break free of.

>>14518175
Sent a quick mail just as verification. Respond to that with what you want me to look up.

>>14518171

Return of Godzilla (1984): According to Keith, known as kpa on various kaiju forums, ROG didn't do so hot critically or commercially. That partially explains why it took so long to get a sequel.

Godzilla vs Biollante (1989): Box office disappointment. But it was recently voted as Japan's favorite Godzilla film. Check out the Sci-Fi Japan TV videos for more info.

Godzilla vs King Ghidorah (1991): Did better than the last two and Toho figured it was because the film featured a classic opponent.

Godzilla vs Mothra (1992): Unadjusted for inflation, it's the most successful Japanese Godzilla film.

Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla II (1993): Made less money, though still a solid hit.

Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla (1994): Second most successful film of the Heisei Era.

Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995): Highest grossing Japanese film at the box office for 1996. Third most successful film of the Heisei Era.

G98: Massive disappointment.

Godzilla 2000 (1999): Meh box office.

Godzilla vs. Megaguirus (2000): Box office disappointment.

Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack (2001): Most successful of the Millennium Era both commercially and critically.

Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002): Makes $4 million less than GMK.

Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S. (2003): Makes $4 million less than GxM

Godzilla: Final Wars (2004): Box office bomb. Comes in sixth place opening weekend and makes $12 million on $20 million budget.

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>>14518223
Have some Goji sending presents to his American cousins

>>14518230
Godzilla: Final Wars (2004): Box office bomb. Comes in sixth place opening weekend and makes $12 million on $20 million budget.

Good. Fuck Final Wars.

>>14518228
Ultraman is still pretty much stuck on the Showa era and sentai is very conservative. Rider just got extremely lucky

>>14518239
Then there's a reason why Kamen Rider obliterates the other two franchises in terms of both commercial and critical success.

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Hey I'm the guy who's been making tl;dr posts and trying to understand the West vs Japan differences in how audiences & critics view unrealistic special effects.

If >>14517843 was implying Japanese audiences had issues with a lot of the Heisei films because of "campy dated effects" similar to American critics/viewers, then he was completely fucking wrong because...

Gamera, the movie that Ebert said was "objectively bad" in every regard was EXTREMELY well-received in Japan. Not only critically as this news article points out >>14518148 but it also received a bunch of awards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamera:_Guardian_of_the_Universe#Awards

The Heisei Ghidorah movie also won an award FOR SPECIAL EFFECTS even though they were as unrealistic as it gets. I guess they just care more about creativity than "muh technology and realism".

So... yeah, Japan definitely sees special effects in kaiju films/toku in general very differently than what Americans see it. Maybe a bunch of the Heisei films were were hated but for plot reasons or oversaturating but there's no fucking way they went "UGH THIS DOESN'T LOOK REAL" at them.

>>14518250
OK can you shut the fuck up now?

>>14518250
To be fair, the Gamera trilogy's effects blew the Godzilla movies of the time out of the water.

The miniature work in those movies is unparalleled.

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Would a Godzilla anime be too late to be successful?

>>14518230
Quick note about GODZILLA (1998). It made around $30 million. Outdoing all of Toho's films if I'm not mistaken. But it was expected to do twice that number. That's what makes it a disappointment. Read the Sci-Fi Japan article from earlier for more info.

Attendance
Godzilla vs Mothra (1992): 4,200,000
GODZILLA (1998): 3,500,000
GMK (2001): 2,400,000

TohoKingdom lists G98 as making more money than Godzilla vs Mothra despite having the smaller attendance. Inflation maybe?

>>14518160
It's my favourite godzilla film I think this one more than any other blends the human story and the monster story together well.

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>>14518228
>Japan will never willingly evoke the Showa trash again
>Everyone in Japan hates Heisei and turned against the entire genre in the 2000s, Showa era are the REAL classics
Why is this thread full of people saying radically opposing things and offering no sources

One of these tweets has to be made up bullshit. Which one is it?

>>14518247
Ultraman and sentai tried but Japan is autistic as fuck with tokusatsu. In fact, many toku shows during the 80s and 90s tried to break the mold and they were constantly rejected by the audience until the studios stopped trying and ironically, the audience lost interest despite they were the ones who rejected change. I guess rider got away with it because it was at the right place at the right time.

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>>14518273
>tweets
holy fuck I've been using that garbage website too much, I'm sorry.

Posts.

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>>14518270
Sources are Wikipedia and TohoKingdom

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>>14518273
Japanese in general hate the Showa era of toku.
A recent Kamen Rider movie flopped because the original Rider was the main character. They just don't want to see those characters or style anymore.

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>>14518218
>Shin Godzilla will never become a series like Heisei.
>Shin Godzilla wont be the origin point for a new breed of Kaiju.
>Shin Godzilla's body begins to breakdown and becomes Hedorah.
>A New Godzilla takes the place as "Godzilla" and fights off Shin Hedorah and other Kaiju.

>>14518253
I'm sorry for starting a debate about the cultural norms surrounding the series instead of posting making based anno memes and whining about the design of a movie that we've only seen a minute of

>>14518287
Wasn't because Toei has been overexploited the crossovers since the Decade movie? The crossover movies made less money every passing year

>>14518295
You have contributed nothing of worth with your tldr whining about irrelevant bullshit because you're too lazy or stupid to do your own research.

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>>14518294

Can't Godzilla triumph over Tokyo? Can't we have an ending where humans are fucked?

>>14518300
No those movies are generally successful. The issue this time is that nobody wants to see a 70 year old man fight bad guys from shows they didn't watch and don't want to.

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>>14518262
>To be fair, the Gamera trilogy's effects blew the Godzilla movies of the time out of the water.

>The miniature work in those movies is unparalleled.

And yet Ebert said it was pure dated campty garbage as did other American reviewers.

Also, do you feel any of the non-American Godzilla films ever beat it in that regard?

>>14518309
>>14518262
Also: do you really feel Japanese audiences looked at the Godzilla films of that era and said "UGH, UNACCEPTABLE" then looked at Gamera and thought "wow this kicks ass"? I doubt the difference is that huge. Once again Ebert said it "reminded him of watching bad cheap bullshit that was charming because of how bad it was" and thus it was a fun film.

>>14518250
Dude, chill. In my personal opinion, the Heisei and Millennium films are disappointments. Happy? We got that cleared up. But the real point was the over saturation of the genre. The anomaly that was GMK seems to indicate that quality was a factor too.

Roger Ebert also thought Gojira sucks and the Star Wars prequels were great. Your point?

>>14518309
Can we please put the corpse back in the ground and discuss something that wont cause a shit storm?

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>>14518320

This, please.

>>14518309
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHYxnujZwxw

>>14518320
>>14518319
I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD GIVE A SHIT ABOUT EBERT'S OPINION. I'M JUST USING HIM AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW AMERICANS VIEW KAIJU. It won't start a shitstorm; people disagree with Ebert, whatever.

Also address this >>14518313

>Dude, chill. In my personal opinion, the Heisei and Millennium films are disappointments.

You also said audiences hated them though and that "Japan turned against the entire genre in the 2000s" with no sources to back it up (unless that was someone else in which case sry)

>>14518340
>I'M JUST USING HIM AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW AMERICANS VIEW KAIJU.
Not all Americans are Ebert

And guess what, whether critics liked it or not, it's still okay for you to like it.

>>14518338
>Gamera is not a good movie but it is a good moviegoing experience [because of muh irony]

>"I'm not gonna claim that it's a good movie. The plot is [funky?], the dialogue is mechanical, the characters are inane and [fart joke]"

He said nothing about the effects because people already know he thinks they're shit in these movies and admitted he only likes it for how bad it is

One of the most influential American critics said all these things about a film that was considered unironically good in Japan

Do you see my point now

>>14518354
>Then, if they continue to grow older and wiser, they complete the circle and return to "Gamera'' again, realizing that while both movies are preposterous, the turtle movie has the charm of utter goofiness--and, in an age of flawless special effects, it is somehow more fun to watch flawed ones.
Oh yeah he says the effects are so-bad-they're-good in the text review too http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/gamera-guardian-of-the-universe-1997

>>14518340

That was me.

> The Japanese sort of turned against the genre in the 2000s

I said this because the declining box office receipts and attendance supports it. Go check out the numbers on TohoKingdom and Wikipedia. It wasn't just Godzilla. The entire genre was suffering.

>>14518352
>And guess what, whether critics liked it or not, it's still okay for you to like it.
I already do. I'm not discussing that, I'm discussing differences between Japanese audience/critics and American ones.

Regardless of whether or not people still like Godzilla, Americans or Japanese, regardless of autists in the fanbase, regardless of what people think they want, this movie is coming out very soon, and nothing will alter its content. Why can't we just talk about what we (dis)liked from the series, and be cautiously optimistic for the future? Fuck the critics, fuck evertything but the movie, just stop fucking talking about stupid bullshit.

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>>14518364
So then it became more of a cult thing I guess.

Regardless, my point was about cultural opinions on special effects. Can we at least agree that Japan and America are very different in that regard? There are obviously levels to it and some kaiju movies look better than others, but "haha wtf lmao this is so bad it's good" is not why Japanese fans enjoy these movies and why critics sometimes praise them and it's also not why they are made.

I mean as I said, the Heisei Ghidra movie won a fucking special effects award. You don't give out awards ironically. Do you feel that movie had bad effects? How about GMK?

>>14518380
I normally like to talk about things like costume designs and cinematography but I'd just feel dumb about it if I found out that they're all made to look ironically bad for people to laugh at and I'm finding quality in things created as irony

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>>14518340
We as a "Kaiju community(More or less)" know how most American's see Godzilla movies as a whole.
Ebert was just a "Popular Youtube Reviewer" of his time, and his opinion doesn't mean shit in comparison to what I think. To Ebert, If it wasn't Citizen Kane, it wasn't good.

>Heisei(Design and Series) was most memorable, but it was very flawed and became stale.
>Millennium as a whole was underwhelming and wasted potential.
>98 was a Good monster movie, but a awful Godzilla movie.
>G14 has one of my favorite Godzilla designs, but a shit movie.

I watch Godzilla movies because it's been a thing I've loved since I was a kid, and will continue to love until I die. It's one of the franchises that can invoke strong emotion even after watching the same film(s) over and over.

Like right now I'm watching Son of Godzilla:
>It's clearly low budget.
>I saw the fucking Set roof in a scene.
>The background is obviously painted.
>The overall plot is retarded.
>But I'm loving it.

Something about the movie makes me happy and the idea of it taking 20 men just to make Kumonga come to life impresses me to no end.

So let's change the mood of the thread for the better and discuss the questions in the OP.

>>14518393
I think a lot of people unironically like the movies, and that's enough for me. I don't care if hipsters get their yucks if it means more movies. Costume design is a strong point of the Godzilla movies, even SpaceGodzilla, awful awful movie as it was, got the costume designs right (excepting Little G, jesus).

>>14518393
As a wee lad, I was known as the "Godzilla Guy" at my school. I was the only kid with the Official Godzilla Compendium, you see, and as a result I was considered an expert in my field.

As an adult, I take the self defense approach to these things and only show my power level if someone instigates.

>>14517559
>>14517576
>>14517587
>>14517605
>>14517621
so assuming we get a new Godzilla Fighting Game in the vein of DAM: Melee and it's sequels, who should develop it?

>>14518429
Not Simon Strange.

>>14518429
Netherrealm.

>>14518429
Natsume should have a bunch of assets ready to go from that Godzilla game they made a year and a half ago

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>>14518410
>>14518416
I'm sorry to bring back Ebert again but, my point is that if Ebert was right about shit like this I'd just feel bizarre watching and genuinely enjoying the films http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/godzilla-1985-1985

The entire review is him saying that he's convinced the movie is made to be "ironically bad" for the people who watch the 1954 Godzilla ironically:

>My clues in arriving at this conclusion are many. The filmmakers must have known that the original Godzilla from 1956 had many loyal fans all over the world who treasured the absurd dialogue, the bad lip-synching, the unbelievable special effects, the phony profundity. So they have deliberately gone after the same inept feeling in "Godzilla 1985."

For whatever reason, Ebert never acknowledges that every single other critic loves the original Godzilla and thinks it's a great movie and he's the only one who says it's historically interesting but a 1-star abomination.

But the OCD part of me thinks "what if he's right"

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>>14518383
> the Heisei Ghidra movie won a fucking special effects award.

No wonder the special effects very noticeably decline over the Heisei films. He puts his heart and soul into Biollante. Some of the best work in the series. Much of it goes unused, film flops, and he falls into a serious depression. Barely puts forth an effort with Ghidorah. Wins an award.

The Japanese attendance for GODZILLA (2014) was only 2,180,000. Wow... I hope Evangelion fans come out to support Resurgence.

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>>14518429
>Platinum Games will never get the rights to make a Godzilla game.

>>14518429

Bandai expressed doing a fighting version of a Godzilla game. We'll see.

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>>14518440
>>14518416
Also liking Godzilla isn't that weird; as far as nerdy hobbies, go watching the Japanese Godzilla films is not that weird. Same goes for a lot of shows that are mainly liked by the old-school anime nerd audience but have normie appeal like Giant Robo.

>>14518442
You didn't address any of the questions I asked, dude (I assume you're the same guy because Asuka)

Also did Biollante do well?

>>14518442
Aren't evafags piss-offs because Anno made Resurgence instead of 3.0+1.0? Even Anno had to apologize

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>>14518456
>>14518462
Well I guess you answered "what do you think about the effects in Ghidra" but not the rest

>>14518440
Well he's dead now so who cares?

>>14518440
Dude get over ebert he was one dude from a different era with different sensibilities than the common man, he critiqued film as high art. Folk tales can be stupid shit too, nothing wrong with liking them.

>>14518467
>Godzilla vs. EVA will never actually be a thing.

>>14518408
This

Can't we just talk about Godzilla movies and other kaiju things instead whining about what a dead man said

>>14518471
>Dude get over ebert he was one dude from a different era with different sensibilities than the common man, he critiqued film as high art.
He gave positive reviews to things that are hardly "high art" before. He likes Rintaro and praised things like Roujin Z, along with a lot of kung fu movies that exist almost entirely to show off kick-ass fight scenes.

>>14518482
>>14518471
Also

>Folk tales can be stupid shit too, nothing wrong with liking them.

Sounds like a pretty defeatist attitude. I think the good kaiju films have more cinematic merit than shit folk tales have literary merit. But Iguess you don't?

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>>14518462

Yes. Americans are overly obsessed with digital effects. But there has been somewhat of a push back lately. Seems more people are getting interested in practical effects again. And yes, I think kaiju films are treated unfairly by American critics. There are some genuinely good kaiju films besides Gojira (1954) and hopefully they'll get true respect some day.

My point was I don't know how Godzilla vs King Ghidorah won an award for special effects. Seriously. Compare the it to the work done in Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs Biollante. And no. Biollante did not do well. Its failure allegedly sent the special effects director, Koichi Kawakita, into a depression and he largely stopped caring about the quality of the effects afterwards. Became an alcoholic too.

>>14518482
In fact he gave a positive review to Gamera, a thumbs up and three out of four stars, right here >>14518338

Gee whiz crisis averted, maybe it's okay to like these movies because Ebert said so.

>>14518408
Which are your favorite films?

>>14518488
I like Godzilla vs King Ghidorah (showa), but I can see why a lot of people wouldn't like it. People like shadow puppets, kabuki, opera and (live) theater. The movies don't have to have perfect effects, you can just enjoy it for what it is. The point I'm trying to drive home is that they don't necessarily have to push the envelope when it comes to the script, camera work, audio (although the music IS a highlight when it comes to Godzilla) and acting.

>>14518497
>There are some genuinely good kaiju films besides Gojira (1954) and hopefully they'll get true respect some day.
Recommend some. I'm downloading the 95 Gamera right now and want more.

>>14518508
Mothra (1961)

>>14518508
>>14518497
Also you can feel free to recommend both Godzilla and non-Godzilla stuff

>>14518514
I find Mothra kinda boring to be fair, any others?

>>14518503
From all eras?

Top 5:
>Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah
>GMK
>Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)
>Godzilla vs. Hedorah
>Godzilla v.s Biollante

>>14518518
Frankenstein vs Baragon and War of the Gargantuas

>>14518518
>>14518514
>>14518508
Oh also, last question: do you consider any post-90s kaiju rubber suits film to be good?

>>14518518
You cant really do much with Mothra as a base Monster.

That's why most of the Old monsters who returned for Heisei got Power ups/Beams/Forms.

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>>14518524
>post 90s
I meant "from the 90s onwards" sorry fucking dammit shit

>>14518508
Mothra vs Godzilla (1964)
Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster
Invasion of Astro-Monster
Son of Godzilla
Godzilla vs Hedorah
Godzilla vs Biollante
Rodan

Disclaimer: Watched all of these in English. Makes a difference in some cases.

>>14518524
Heisei Gamera Trilogy
Gamera the Brave
GMK
Godzilla 2000

>>14518524
GMK if that counts, and that's a bit of a soft pass for me.

>>14518526
Well, Biollante was 89... Godzilla vs Destroyah was the best after that.

>>14518527
>Gamera the Brave
Why did they use a Stock roar instead of a higher pitched Gamera Roar for Toto?

>>14518533
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8-mXOuf1_0

>>14518530
What do you mean by "soft pass" it's not a term I encounter often and english isn't my first language

>>14518532
Have no idea.

My two biggest problems with the film is Gamera being overly cute and the ending being a little cheesy. Aside from those issues, it's literally a Showa Era film with modern production values and it's a genuinely good flick.

>>14518533
GMK feels a bit wonky to me. When I first found out the script, I thought it was a bs fanfiction. The effects range from eh to top notch, and the story hits a lot of good notes but misses a few beats.

>>14518538
It's not a Godzilla movie I especially like, but I think it's the best of the millenium era and I think it's worth watching. I was having trouble finding the right way to express that, so I apologize.

>>14518542
I enjoy the idea of a "Showa" film being done in modern day, I just wish Toto looked more "Animal" rather than Moe.
It would've been better if there was a sequence that had a Younger Toto that battled Jidas, lost, and later as an Adult, has a rematch with Jidas, blowing him up.

>>14518545
Which are all the Godzilla movies that do you consider particularly good and well-made?

sorry for more questions I just think you have interesting taste

>>14518575
>particularly good and well made
Being as critical as I can:
Gojira (1954) - I won't bother explaining.
Godzilla vs Mothra (1964) - this is a pretty commonly cited example as well, I like the chemistry between the actors.
Godzilla vs Hedorah - the animated bits add nice contrast, it's got a relatively good pace, although the fight drags on a little too long in the end. The director took a lot of risks, and he barely had a month to shoot it with a small budget. Toho didn't like it though, and demoted the director.
Godzilla vs Biollante - see >>14518160.

Now, as for what I really like, despite all the flaws:
Godzilla vs King Kong - fun fucking movie, east vs west, something for everyone.
Godzilla vs King Ghidorah - I like the human elements to the story, not quite as good as Godzilla vs Mothra though.
Invasion of Astro Monster - fun, starts taking the series in a different direction, but the last really good cast for a few movies. Nick Adams does a pretty good job here.
If you're down for something really different, All Monsters Attack/Godzilla's Revenge might be worth checking out. It suffers from using a lot of stock footage, but it's more of a story about a kid coming to grips with what's arguably a pretty crappy life and overcoming it. In some aspects, it's a bit dark.
Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla and Terror of Mechagodzilla are cheesy goodness.
Godzilla 1985 isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, worth a watch imo.
Godzilla vs Destroyah
Godzilla X MechaGodzilla and Tokyo SOS are worth watching.

>>14518429
SNK
See if they can get Shinkiro back, and have him give every monster Clooney face.

>>14518612
>Godzilla X MechaGodzilla and Tokyo SOS are worth watching.

Only once. They're pretty bad, first one especially.

>>14518636
Yeah, I should have said only once. The Millenium era really sucked. It's frustrating because those two movies could have been so much better.

>>14518641

Yeah, it's a shame. GMK was pretty good though.

Titanosaurus movie when

>>14518685
Titano had a hard time in show business, everyone always thought he was trying to be a bootleg goji knockoff. Not to mention the constant brainwashings he had due to always following the wrong type of crowd

>>14517907
aw boo hoo hoo poor little Anno and his meme depression again.

Why doesn't he marry his depression if he loves it so much?

>>14519047
He can't, he'd be cheating on Moyoco otherwise.

>>14519047
Mental disorders don't work that way.

>>14519047
>Why doesn't he marry his depression if he loves it so much?
this should be a light novel

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>>14517521
I'm worried about this too, but a theater near me was one of the few to show Pacific Rim in IMAX before the official release date and I got this sweet poster so maybe I'll get lucky again.

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>getting an international release

If this plays in cinemas in the UK I will travel to wherever it plays. London, Birmingham, Edinburgh, where the fuck ever. I NEED IT.

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Is there some super secret place to download this type of movies? I want to watch the Gamera heisei trilogy but the only well-seeded torrent was one with low quality and hardsubs and all the DVD rips I can find have no seeds, except for one which loaded up to 6% and then stopped.

Inb4 "go go /t/" but /m/ is the best place to ask for this sort of shit

>>14519016
Don't forget with how him and Goji were never really close friends like Goji was with almost everyone else

Remember when Titano had an argument with the director about being mind controlled throughout most of the movie and being second bad guy only to mechagodzilla

>>14519152
>>14519016

Stop.

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so about that beam

>>14519283
that's.... a relaly cool thing to do for him.

>>14519283
I think I want a better source than "Bob EGGLETON"

>>14518263
Why not? Your average anime-craving weeb would probably eat it up, unless they have a thing against animation that was adapted from live action rubber monster films.

>>14519283
Cool story shitposter.

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>>14519286

you wouldn't trust this man?

>>14519250
Fuck off :^)

>>14518685
I find Titanosaurus to be really underappreciated, he was only in a single movie.
He has such a simple and nice design, with a great roar.
well, at least I like his roar

>>14519283
What a bizarre reason.
Anyway, there's a translated list of the newspaper article with the international releases:

This map from a newspaper article appears to reveal the identities of the 100 countries Godzilla Resurgence is confirmed to be distributed in. This list is incomplete, as not all numbers are accounted for and some territories will probably be confirmed later.

ASIA - 35 territories
China, Hong Kong, South Korea, India, the Philippines, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Myanmar, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Macau, Nepal, Papua New Guinea, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan (!!!!!!!!!!!!), Iran (!!!!!!!), Iraq (!!!!!!!!!!!!!), Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, and SYRIA (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

EUROPE - 13 territories
The UK, Ireland, Germany, The Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria.

OCEANIA - 2 territories
Australia, New Zealand.

AFRICA - 17 territories
Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Western Sahara, Mauritania, Somalia, Chad, South Sudan, Yemen.

NORTH AMERICA- 23 territories
The United States, Canada, Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, Cuba (!!!!!), El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, other Caribbean countries I can’t see.

SOUTH AMERICA - 10 territories
Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Uruguay, Paraguay.

Source: Some guy's tumblr.

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>>14519404
This is really weird, I can't see a majority of these countries having an audience for Godzilla, but hey I'm probably wrong.

THIS ISN'T A FUCKING STREET SIGN

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>>14519286
>>14519313

it's making the rounds

>>14518499
He said it was a bad movie but so-bad-it's-good.

>>14519468
>>14518499
In comparison Japanese critics and kaiju fan critics in the west said it was genuinely good

THAT'S MY POINT. The typical western film viewer can't get over the "THIS DOESN'T LOOK REAL" aspect and watches them ironically while weebs and Japanese people view them in a radically different way.

>>14519442
That's still something that should only be present as an Easter egg if true... there's no reason to completely change an established aspect of Godzilla because of some dead musician. It has no place in a fucking Godzilla film of all things.

>>14519484
Are you retarded?

>>14519484
It looks really cool and interesting, I don't see any problem.

>>14519404
Figures that none of them's near me. But I guess it's for the better, Godzilla has negative marquee value in this area, so any sort of release is bound to be a dismal failure and wreck the brand name further.

Kinda surprised the list doesn't include Italy, though. I was under the (maybe false) impression that at least some people there like the franchise.

>>14519484
I mean it works for the design:
>Glow red from body.
>Blue Atomic Breath.
>Result is a Purple Glow/Beam.

Personally I never listened to Prince, but at least they didn't change the whole design to be purple.

>>14519497
How would you feel if Toho made one more film after Final Wars and devoted a scene to the memory of Michael Jackson passing by having Godzilla moonwalk?

>>14519574
That would be fucking cooooool

>>14517646
>Why not debate Ebert's opinions with him?

He's dead, Jim.

>>14519574
That would be fucking coooool

>>14519574
Would that be any sillier than him flying?

>>14519404
>Ireland

ooooooooooooooooo yeah

>AFRICA

Are there a lot of Godzilla fans in Africa?

Why the fuck am I asking, I'm Irish and cheering it's released here.

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>>14518160
I really liked some of the little touches in Biollante like people sitting in a cafe that had been wrecked in the previous film and the world reacting to Godzilla.
It made Godzilla's impact extend beyond Japan in the story. Plus Biollante was a cool monster.

>>14519621
I have a friend that grew up in the Ivory Coast and he's a HUGE Godzilla fan.

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So who is this semon demon?

>>14519689
In film, a US Agent.
Actress: Satomi Ishihara

>>14519574
I'm honestly surprised that wasn't a thing considering how batshit crazy FW was

>>14519728
I remember some old bullshit rumor of FW Gofi using his tail to bounce him in the air like Tigger, and having a aerial fight with another monster.

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>>14519812

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Movies aside the comics that Godzilla is getting are great

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>>14519821

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>>14519835

>>14519896
lol

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New concept art.

>>14519953
Lava footsteps?

>>14519727
I can't wait to see her obviously fluent "English".

>>14519976
Japan's already making fun of her "ZA DEE OH DEEZU KODO NAMEU IZ GADZILLER" line from the trailer.

>>14519976
>"English"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN9GiMFWKPE

>>14519983
Which trailer? The exclusive Japanese theatrical trailer?

>>14519992
Yes

>>14519983
The D.O.D.'s code name is Godzilla? What's a D.O.D.?

>>14520006
She's an American agent, what do you think?

>>14520006
Department of Defense
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense

>>14519404
>Spain
Fuck yes.

>>14520008
>>14520011
Oh... I'm a fucking moron.

What are the chances of Godzilla Resurgence actually being good or seen as something more than a Kaiju film? Toho appears confident, arranging distribution in at least 100 countries. Think it'll make money? What are your fears about this project, anons?

>>14519689
Misato

The cinema flyer I have says Ishihara's character is "US president's special envoy, Kayoko Anne Patterson" FYI.

The three main characters are her, the deputy chief cabinet secretary Yaguchi (played by Hasegawa) and the prime minister's assistant Akasaka (played by Takeno). They're the ones with the biggest pictures on the top row in the character list, at least.

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>>14519983
Is it this good?

http://youtu.be/018vLgJWK5Q

>>14520008

Doritos Or Dip?

>>14520028
Good is up in the air, but it's a high chance with the caliber of the staff. As for making money, Toho obviously expects some level of return if they're showing it off in 100 territories.

That's the nice thing about (comparatively) smaller budgets: they pay for themselves in the home territory, and everything else is just gravy.

>>14520073
Only her "Godzilla" sounded vaguely fluent, the rest sounded like slurred katakana.

>>14520073

Does she even know what the "Big Five Oh" means? It's a very American thing.

>>14519404
>Chile
Holy fuck

>>14520085
Eh... that bad? Hopefully she won't be speaking too much English. She did a pretty good job elsewhere so I was hoping she would be fine in Resurgence.

>>14520028
>Think it'll make money? What are your fears about this project, anons?
The budget's not too high as far as I know, so unless distributing it eats up a whole lot of money, I don't see why it wouldn't be profitable. You know, unless it's shit and people won't go see it.

As for fears, I don't know what would be worse: if the movie turns out to be horrible, or underwhelming/mediocre. Both would be hugely disappointing and would do little good to the genre, especially with the wide distribution. It pretty much needs to be good or at least okay.

The fan in me says that I should worry that the general public will shit on the movie because of the usual reasons (it's low budget, it's Japanese, it's a monster movie), but I know that this is unavoidable and it's pointless to get riled up over it.

>>14520028
I really don't know, other than the U.S. audience will compare it to Burgerzilla and will be all confused as to why he's all Crispy now.

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Rage Across Time continues to look hype as shit and it's not even out yet.

>Black death plagues medieval England… and so does Megaguirus! A group of knights decides to find the source of the pestilence and comes across a flying nightmare that not all of them will survive!

>>14520166

Deus vult!

>>14519404

So will the film have a general release in these territories or will it be limited, as in 1 or 2 theatres only?

>>14520073
That's pretty good, she's speaking with an accent which is perfectly fine

>>14520073
Speaks a lot better English than I do Japanese.

>>14519896
>no moguera or mecha kong
I'd still read the shit out of it, Showa MechaG has a fucking top tier design

>>14520166
>Megaguirus
>Not Battra

>>14520532
Idea is Megaguirus and her swarm as representations of Pestilence what with them functionally being the kaiju equivalent of a horde of locusts in the midst of this Black Death setting.

>>14520558
I know, I just think Battra could have worked better considering he's Mothra's and humanity's enemy, a manifestation of earth's anger. But I guess the worst people were doing in the middle ages was mild deforestation and mucking up rivers with shit, so maybe Megaguiras does work better here. Either way I'll scope these comics out.

>>14520148
>Why is Godzilla skipping arm day?

>>14520573
If anything, Battra is sleeping somewhere.
Battra shouldn't be awaken until the Atomic Bomb testings, and Megaguirus works as a representation of Pestilence since it just fits, making her an enemy to Mothra feels right.

>>14520166
>Rage Across Time
Seems better than the Rampage Through time game already.

>>14519835
IDW stuff generally goes well unless you try getting into their non-crossover Transformers stuff.

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>>14520100
wena BaI

>>14519689
the fuck's wrong with her mouth
her lips look like a clenching asshole

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>>14520615
It also has "Godzilla rampages through Feudal Japan" and "Godzilla versus Zeus and the rest of the Olympian Gods"

>>14520658
it's because ur gay

>>14519404
>Belgium
>Not France

fuck them

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>>14520658
>>14519689

>>14517987

They're really not.

Biollante's a genuinely good movie, '84 gets a gold star for effort, and GvKG isn't "good" by any stretch but it so batshit crazy and creative you can't not enjoy it. Everything heisei after those three were just long, boring, personality-less slogs.

>>14520804
Godzilla vs Destoroyah manged to have some soul.

>>14520807

It did, but it really wasn't enough to save it from the fact that it really just dragged.

>>14519047

>1,000 Japanese porn stars start blowing OP for being so edgy

>>14520807
Destoroyah is a depressing waste of potential. There never is any sense of urgency (despite the impending apocalypse), the connections to Gojira aren't fully utilized, and the characters are pretty underwhelming.

>>14520804
Return of Godzilla is pretty dull. It's Gojira without the depth and emotion.

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>>14520857
>>14520807
>>14520835

Do you think Godzilla died knowing his son would revive or did he die thinking he failed to protect his son?

>>14520858
He looked rather distressed when he failed to revive his son. So I assume he died thinking he was the last of his kind. Fortunately, Godzilla's death allowed his son another opportunity at life. Bittersweet ending.

What's the worst movie in the franchise?
http://www.strawpoll.me/10795891

>>14520874
Which one is the one about the kid being bullied? Because it's that.

>>14520876
Godzilla's Revenge/All Monsters Attack

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>>14520874
We hate Godzilla vs the Sea Monster?

>>14520893
It really wasn't that good of a movie, but so far three haven't been any votes for it.

>>14520857

Its dull narratively, but its got atmosphere and some of the effects are decent.

>>14520874
As much as I love shitting on Final Wars, it still has some good points to it.

Godzilla Raids Again is so full of nothing, historical significance aside.

>>14520899
Why are people so hard on this movie? Not the most compelling flick, however, the cast is interesting enough and effects are still solid.

>>14520929
Ebirah is literally a giant shrimp.
>interesting enough
Compared to the previous movies it was pretty shit.
I think the reason people are especially hard on it is because compared to its immediate predecessors it's clearly of a much lower quality, so it looks worse in contrast.

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>>14520951
YOOOOOOOOO

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>>14520858
>>14520869
>>14520874


Come here you assholes

>>14520939
I agree, there's not much to it other than being fun, I guess, and I personally thought the island setting was a nice change of pace. But it doesn't tackle any real-life issues, stuffing Godzilla into Kong's role was weird, and Ebirah is underwhelming as a Godzilla foe.

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So everyone is talking shit about how terrible Shin's CG and SFX are

Am I blind? Because I'm not seeing it. It looks at least on par with 2014 as far as Godzilla's model goes, and the military weapons and explosions are looking on point too

Can anyone here point out these glaring flaws everyone else is seeing in these trailers?

>>14520939
>>14520974
Personally I love beach volleyball and thought the Red Bamboo were interesting villains. It's a colorful, flick with carefree vibe running through it. But yeah, it's a little dull at times. Still I'd watch it before most Heisei movies.

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>>14521001

Only mainstream people are complaining about it and users on Tohokingdom.

The only thing that looked off were the helicopters flying towards Godzilla. Other than that, everything else looks fantastic.

>>14519728
>YFW Godzilla styles over Anguirus, Rodan and King Caesar to the tune of Smooth Criminal

>>14521001
They're retards complaining about the "bad" helicopters which are ACTUAL FOOTAGE OF REAL HELICOPTERS, what do you think?

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>>14521001
It looks weak at times. But it's honestly a very solid effort. Especially for a product made with only a fraction of the budgets Hollywood blockbusters have to play around with. And how often do you find examples of poor looking special effects in Hollywood films? More than most would think.

>>14521027
Reality has shitty special effects?

>>14521001
I think the wild head shake looks odd and there's the usual "he's too stiff" complaint (which I personally don't mind), and sure, it may not look absolutely spotlessly realistic, but I'm still impressed by most of the footage we've seen thus far.

I feel a lot of the hate simply stems from people expecting everything to look like a multi-hundred million dollar Hollywood CGI extravaganza where everything's constantly moving about, and don't stop to think that that sorta stuff isn't the zenith of special effects.

>>14518160
I really like when Godzilla movies use a scientific moral crisis as the plot point, like in the first one

In fact I've always wanted it to be a running theme that Godzilla would confront Humanity with a new moral dilemma about their effect on the world every film

>>14521080
What exactly was his problem in vs. Megaguirus?
>Humans develop new energy source
>Attacks anyway

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Is Godzilla 2000 in the only Godzilla movie where Godzilla triumphs over humanity?

>>14521028
The one on the right looks really good if it's CGI, I've been assuming all this time it's a suit with effects sprinkled in, but Toho has repeatedly said it's all computers so my only other guess is that some practical work was left in and it's not ENTIRELY computer generated.

>>14521104
Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla II? He defeats his human controlled, mechanical doppelganger and recovers his son.

>>14521111

Well, in the end he does die. But speaking of that, given Godzilla Jr's good relationship with humans, do you think he'd leave humanity alone or attack them like his father?

I know Godzilla had a reason for his constant destruction, but would Jr?

When Godizlla die was actually transform essence into Jr? When he try to revive jr in the de vs sdestoryer did ihe in fact make an earnest and concentrated effort to transfer his consciousness in heat form as evidenced by hte red orange consciousness heat sliver streak stuff that he was breathing into Jr? Was this really in fact an act of mindrapage?

>>14521119
Junior becomes the Heisei equivalent of the second Showa Godzilla. Bam. But the advanced human technology like Super X-III and MechaGodzilla would render him obsolete. Imagine a decade more of development. Humanity could easily defend itself against future threats.

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>>14521126

Jr absorbed his radiation and became fully mature. The radiation that blew up his island is what made him grow out of that chibi phase.

>>14521154

But then why did he movie lioke the regular godzilkla and niot like Jr? Ratidation is not magic...