Funnels could actually be a thing

Why the hell would funnels be silly
They kill like all fuck for very logical reasons

>>14515117

Highly-mobile funnel/drone type armaments were always a good idea.

Making them newtype-exclusive is the silly part.

>>14515139
>They kill like all fuck for very logical reasons
Funnels/bits are fucking disgusting. When you think about it, it's almost not fair because how the hell are you supposed to deal with multiple lines of fire from very small targets surrounding you?

Anyone got that webm of the bit rape from Unicorn?

>>14515183
The article itself says that it's pretty difficult to control even 4 drones to do relatively simple tasks.
I can imagine you'd need to be a newtype to utilise the system effectively.

>>14515189

You could say the same about guns full stop. Guns marked the end of ranked, marching warfare, knights and chivalry for that reason. Bows and arrows were probably seen as unfair too.

>>14515208
The technology is literally on diapers. Give them a few years.

>>14515208
Simple - have drones control themselves, while human element only issues sporadic commands, that the system acts upon.
Trying to control everything at once is hopeless - we're only human and can only divide our attention so much.

>>14515183
To be fair, the INCOM system from the Gundam Mark V and Doven Wolf could be used by non-newtypes and were essentially a lite version of Funnels.

>>14515208
The airforce is working on making AI drone wingmen for manned craft, they could adopt that and make it so that the human only controls one drone and the others are AI that act accordingly to how the manned one does.

>>14515189

The real problem with Funnels is that the technology that makes the individual funnels function, even ignoring the newtype control system, makes it abundantly clear that mobile suits have no reason whatsoever to exist in the setting.

If you can fit that level of firepower and maneuverability into a funnel, why on gods green earth are you making something as big and slow as a mobilesuit instead?

OP you act like they haven't already made funnels already

http://www.gizmodo.jp/2007/10/post_2477.html

>>14515651
Funnels need a place to deploy from and funnels are usually used as supplements to mobile suit combat, not as a main weapon.

>>14515672
https://youtu.be/W8efpDBvTDE

>>14515677

Sure, funnels-as-designed.

But if you can make a funnel that small, then you can just as easily make a somewhat larger funnel that has either its own minovksy reactor or a much larger fuel supply. Its still a tiny fraction of the cost of a mobile suit, and its superior in every way aside from inability to engage in melee combat. Not that it should ever be expected to.

>>14515651
>If you can fit that level of firepower and maneuverability into a funnel, why on gods green earth are you making something as big and slow as a mobilesuit instead?
Something something something Minovsky particles.

That's your answer. They probably need some sort of launching platform that moves along with them in relative range before minovsky interference makes control signals bug out.

If there's a reason as to why anything is inefficient or silly in Gundam, it probably has something to do with Minovsky particles OR leadership being stupid. Those are your only answers.

>>14515712
I think the main limitation is how to control them - Remote controls are easily jammed, suffer from latency, and are pretty short-ranged in minkovsky-heavy areas.

You could use AI, but it's probably no substitute for an actual pilot.

Additionally, funnels are probably countered by heavily armoured (anti-beam coating?) mobile suits carrying scrap weapons, flak cannons or what have you, due to the funnels' *incredibly* low armour and low(?) penetration power.

Hell, some kind of AoE tesla cannon would probably make short work of a swarm of funnels.

>>14515712
Because the mobile suit came first.

It's the reason we still build and make tanks even though tanks are largely useless in modern warfare and generally exist solely to get blown up.

>>14515712
Or just make remote controlled mobile suits

Aka mobile dolls from Wing ans the MW Rais in G Saviour

>>14515748
You have no god damn clue what you're talking about

>>14515748
>tanks are largely useless in modern warfare
Not even /k/, but come on.

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>>14515748
No bully

>>14515293
The best implementation I can think of is some way of interpreting high level abstract commands like "follow the target I'm looking at" into machine instructions that make sense for the individual drone.

Though it might just be easier to force the end user to follow a rigid protocol for instructions, like "[drone unique identifier] [command] [relevant parameters]" as opposed to having some sort of machine learning algorithm that can make sense of all the different ways someone might think "HEY I NEED THIS GUY TO PISS OFF CAN ONE OF YOU BUZZ HIM FOR ME."

>>14515792
Not even a tank, let alone a modern ground vehicle

>>14515751
More like G-Bits from Gundam X. Remotely piloted, with multiple viewpoints shared across all units.

>>14515742

A tesla cannon can't work in space, because it depends on ionization of the air. No air, no ionization, no lightning.

In any event, it sounds like the end result would just be a core fight outfitted with funnel-esq movement and weapons systems. Which is to say, a core fighter that is absolutely superior in every way to a normal core fighter, given that normal core fights can apparently still only move like dive-bombing japanese strafing planes.

Manned control system, same firepower as a beam rifle, faster and more maneuverable than a mobilesuit, much smaller profile for enemies to hit, costs far less in materials to build.

>>14515805
Those too

>>14515712
>Ships invest in dedicated psycommu systems with multiple groups of bits and INCOMs for remote attacks
>Bulky, slow mobile suits are easily shot down by the more agile bit weapons
>To counter bit weaponry, psycojammers are invented earlier, rendering remote weapons extremely ineffective
>I-Field generators are employed on capital ships, further hindering bit usefulness
>Older mobile suit weaponry returns to the field

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>>14515843
>I-Field generators are employed on capital ships, further hindering bit usefulness

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH - *wheeze* - HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH.

Oh god. Christ, thats a good joke.

Can you imagine it? Actually giving capital ships in gundam a defense that makes them not helpless cannon fodder against mobile suits?

Next you are going to tell me they will give capital ships in Gundam targeting computers on-par with 1995 computing technology, so they can actually hit enemy MS.

Thanks, anon. Thats the best laugh I have had in a while.

>>14515814
If the core fighter moves like a funnel, the G forces would liquify the pilot.

And that's beyond the point. Funnels are capable of amazing combat maneuverability because they are so light and have barely anything in them. If you slap enough stuff into a funnel to make it count as a fighter, it won't move like a funnel. It will move like a fighter.

In the end funnels are really powerful but their practicality is limited because they can be efficiently used only by Newtypes.

>>14515211
>Guns marked the end of ranked, marching warfare, knights and chivalry for that reason.

>what is a tercio

>>14515890
>Funnels are capable of amazing combat maneuverability because they are so light and have barely anything in them

Funnels are capable of amazing combat maneuverability because they don't put their engines only facing the back like retarded core fighters*.

Fixed. Even if the funnel-fighter has to use more powerful engines to deal with the extra mass to achieve funnel-level maneuverability, we already know these engines exist because mobile suits already use them.

But this time, they are only moving something with maybe 1/8th the mass of a full mobile suit, so it should be a piece of cake. If anything, you might have to make them weaker so the pilot can control it better.

>>14515908
>>what is a tercio

A kind of hot sauce, as I recall.

>>14515855
The problem with I-field generators is the large amounts of heat they create, and heat is an issue in space unless you want line your warship in infrared emitting radiator fins. Stuff like the Big Zam, Neue Ziel, GP03 and Unicorn used smaller I-field generators than what a large warship would need, and usually their I-fields couldn't be used for a prolonged amount of time. Furthermore you usually couldn't use an I-field and your beam weapons at the same time.

>>14515651
In-series reason? Funnels have to periodically recharge since they have a set amount of power and being beam weaponry expends that power, which is why they're outfitted on Mobile Suits, to both deploy during combat and recharge from the unit's much larger and more powerful generator.

>>14515926
Couldnt they just program the computer to detect incoming heatsources in forms of attacks, predict the hit based on the attack vector and deploy the I-field for a moment. It would overload if enough attacks came in at the same time, but it should work great paired with decently competent counterattacking capabilities

>>14515988
Or have a team of bridge bunnies doing it, like in Macross.

>>14515855
The ships in Crossbone and Victory have beam shields.

>>14515117
Just in time to give them in Trump's personal army when he takes over.

>>14516003
Pointbarriar style, yeah.

>>14515988
Also keep in mind that I-Fields are only useful against beam weaponry, so missiles and kinetic weapons will still work. Also, an I-Field can't block beam weaponry fired from within its shield radius, and VSBRs can debatably pierce weaker fields.

Being immune to ranged beam weaponry doesn't mean you're completely indestructible, even 0079 showed this. Technology would just advance to adapt.

>>14515651
Energy requirements and control issues. The reason only Newtypes can use them is standard remote signals are impossible to use during combat so only a psychic can issue commands.

>>14515926
>>14515988
>>14516003
>>14516015

one of the things that is talked about in the surrounding fiction and meta-fiction (msv/manuals and the like) but never really shown is that minovsky bullshit fucks with all radiation over long ranges- so acquiring targets by heat/light at any kind of long range is impossible

also minovsky shit just bullshits electronics generally, so everything needs to lug around fairly bulky shielding

minovsky is pretty much just post hoc ergo proctor hoc magic to ensure that mobile suits work in universe

>>14515183
Funnels are controlled psychically, since Minovsky particles interfere with radiowaves.

>>14516336
the only thing i never actually understood about gundam (assuming minovsky bullshit) is why not just stick AIs in everything for short range aimhacks if nothing else

>>14516346

Because Gundam computing technology isn't allowed to be any better than what was available in the 1970s. AI doesn't exist in gundam.

Except, of course, for when they make the leap to functional AI all in one go for the Unicorn Gundam, at which point it works flawlessly, and no one ever makes a computer anywhere near that smart ever again because no one else has anything even close to it until Turn-A.

>>14516346
>>14516353

What makes you think AI would perform better than people in the same environment. Fire-controls are already done by computers. We also have "Learning Computers" which is literally what people call "AI" now days - machine learning. Sentinel has ALICE. What you should argue instead is why bother with pilots at all? I guess watching a guy controlling a robot from some base far away, or pilotless MS fighting each other doesn't make drama.

>>14515651
>If you can fit that level of firepower and maneuverability into a funnel, why on gods green earth are you making something as big and slow as a mobilesuit instead?

Because it looks cool

>>14516353
There's Haro.

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>>14516353
>no one else has anything even close to it until Turn-A.

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>>14515189

>>14516336
The MS AI has a trajectory calculator for incoming attacks that are within visual range in Zeta era UC, so they could just stick a bunch of ultra high range cameras around the ships exterior and activate the I-field whenever a beam weapon is coming towards the ship. They could also use the multiple cameras to create a proper targeting system for AA guns.

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>>14516500
Actually the MW Rais in the G Saviour movie before when the video game took place were AI controlled, and possibly a very high level AI because Jack was able to tell them commands and they followed them.

>>14516739

If bored dudes today can build auto-targeting computer vision based sentry turrets to keep squirrels off their bird feeders, future people should be able to build automated point defense turrets that use computer vision instead of radar.

>>14516846
m8 how hard is it to understand that Gundam, and any sort of fictional story in any media, is gonna have some technological anachronisms and other related things wrong with it due to the fact the shows are made in the current day and thus will only have "future tech" in the context of that time. Future tech in 1979 didn't include AI because it was still a very small developing field that wasn't mainstream yet. If Gundam was remade today and took in account what the current "future tech" is then it would have stuff that looked like Unicorn and the Origin in it in terms of technology and style, along with AI possibly.

>>14516353
Isn't Turn A itself implied to be intelligent or possibly even sentient?

>>14516353

What AI does the Unicorn have?

>>14516964

Not that I recall at least. The only thing I can really think of that might hint at it is the Turn-A firing without input on Poe's WaDoM in episode two. Even that's implied to be automated based on previous instructions regarding enemies though. Gym talk's about how the X wants revenge for the scar on it's chest, but that's just him being a delusional tard most likely, and assigning his unit a soul via animism to make it more romantic and noble.

>>14517007
I think there was something else, but the cocoon at the end of the show also seems to pause to allow Loran to escape.

>>14516353
>what is ALICE

>>14517057

Not really, Loran is already running to escape it when it grab's Gym by the sword. It's Gym refusing to let go of his sword (i.e. war) when it breaks that gets him killed, while Loran not wanting anything to do with a pointless battle and getting the fuck out of there lives.

>>14516346
Because with minervoski particles you wouldn't be able to control them remotely, which leads to all sorts of problems

>>14517058
A one-time affair from a spin-off of dubious canon.

>>14516338
This
Minovsky particles were made up to explain exactly why remote controlled systems don't work in combat

>>14517175
Still, it's not like there aren't real things that would mess with radio waves.

>>14517175

Honestly, the fact that minovksy messes with the electromagnetic spectrum is something I am fine with.

What breaks my suspension of disbelief is that, in all the years of the Gundam timeline, humanity never finds a way around that.

It feels like this should be a difficult problem to solve, but not an impossible one. Something that engineers get around by simply moving to another medium of communication and control that minvosky doesn't affect, or finding a way to boost the signal through minovsky interference.

If nothing else, couldn't you use bursts of minovsky radiation itself as a communication medium? Its easily detectable over long distances, and while it may not have the range of radio waves it wouldn't be affected by minovksy interference.

>>14515117

I hope not.
Did you ever see the Dungeon Siege movie? John Rhys Davies and Ray Liotta have a funnel battle with swords and it looks as dumb as you would expect.

>>14517007
The NT-D I think. Dunno if that's what anon meant.

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>>14515211
>Guns marked the end of ranked, marching warfare,

Er...

>>14515748
>Tanks
>Useless in modern warfare

Nope.

>spend 36 billion dollars building a tank, arming it, and training a crew of four to use it
>an illiterate jihadist with an RPG-7 he found in a scrapheap outside an abandoned Russian high school leans out a window, shoots the tank and blows it up.
>tfw watching 99 trillion dollars burn
Tanks have no place on the modern battlefield.

>>14519405
I don't think an RPG-7 can take on a modern MBT anon...

And regardless, tanks still have a use as a projection of force that is immune to small arms fire.

>>14519307
I thought the NT-D was less a full AI and more a system of preprogrammed response subroutines that were triggered by newtype brainwave activity. Newtype pilot senses an attacker behind him, NT-D spins the Unicorn around and prepares a counter/dodge/block as necessary all faster than the normal brain-to-muscular pathways allow.

>>14519437
They can't also dipshit at >>14519405 ignores the fact tanks don't go in without infantry anyway so he's talking bollocks.

i'm sure he'll retort with some crap out of the ME with one of the worlds most incompetent armies fucking up and argue it applies to
everyone else too.

>>14517090

I noticed bits and pieces of personality from the Turn A, but it was always extremely low key. I could easily imagine some sort of personality-like AI system being on the Turn A due to how it runs by way of I-fields and nanomachines. It'd HAVE to be very complex to function as it does (a possible example being when its mustache gets damaged and it repairs itself).

>>14519246
I think in the grand scheme of things, minovski particles are still relatively new in the UC. I'm sure in the next decade of the UC we'll start seeing that, we already saw psycommu blockers at the end of unicorn, so they're definitely experimenting with that type of tech.

>>14515189
>not fair

what is fair in war?

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>>14515211
Even in ancient times war was not fair.
>Ban assault siege engines!

>>14515855

>targeting computers on-par with 1995 computing technology

CIWS today uses radar, which is supposed to be useless in Gundam.

>>14516846

You might as well say dogfights in space is unbelievable. If you want to see giant robots fighting each within a 10 kim space, you have to accept that for some reason visual targeting is not good enough in the future (technology, MS's ability identify and evade incoming fire etc). Gundam actaully made a point in showing that visual targeting is advancing and there have been attempts to exploit it with things like dummy balloons and false paint jobs.

>>14515211
>Guns marked the end of ranked, marching warfare, knights and chivalry for that reason

Longbows and crossbows are what marginalized knights.

Guns however didn't kill ranked formations until about halfway through the 19th century, because that was when rifles became accurate enough for you to reliably aim and shoot without needed massed fire.

Even then, cavalry was still used until WW1, where it died.

>>14515189
There's a reason only the villians use it.

So that the hero of the story could be out numbered, even when fighting a single opponent.

>>14519781
You do know that Unicorn is not the latest chronological entry in the UC, right?

>>14520144
Late UC doesn't exist anymore.

>>14520155
Says who?

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>>14520155

>>14520168
Unicorn.

>>14520240

It doesn't though.

>>14520019

Bored niggas these days be building automated sentry turrets that use computer vision algorithms with shitty webcams to blast fools with paintballs or spray water at squirrels to keep them off bird feeders.

The sophistication of the microsoft kinect is well beyond what it takes to build a computer vision-based targeting system that operates completely in the visual spectrum.

>>14520240
Except F91 still works after unicorn you sperg.

Unicorn only solidified that the Federation's hold would decline while Zeon more or less died, paving the way for the exact situation we see in F91.

>>14520282
you're an idiot.

>>14519246
>What breaks my suspension of disbelief is that, in all the years of the Gundam timeline, humanity never finds a way around that.
Except they have, multiple times, it's just that the way around it doesn't do much better than before.

>>14520282

>squirrels and human motion
>comparable to the missles

Stop sprouting nonsense you don't understand. Computer vision (aquisition) is only one part in targeting. Just because you can see it, doesn't mean you can hit it

>>14520358
Theoretically, couldn't you tie a computer vision system to some kind of CRT-type setup, and so fire at any target within a wide cone pretty much instantly (and at the speed of light)?

This assumes you have enough power in the weapon to deal any damage, of course. Perhaps it'd be useful as a point defense against missiles and the like, though.

>>14522639

Germany has optical-targeting assisted laser turrets that can shoot down drones, missiles, and even has been demonstrated to explode mortal shells before they hit the ground.

That is a thing that exists today, and indeed has existed for a couple years. The only issue was the equipment was oversized and power hungry.

>>14515316
i.e. they ask the pilot what to do and carry out the orders themselves.

>>14522639
>>14522717

>couldn't you tie a computer vision system to some kind of CRT-type setup
>optical-targeting assisted laser turrets that can shoot down drones, missiles

In theory you can, but that's only because laser is pretty much instantaneous. Anything else you would need to bounce some form of radiation off the target to calculate an interception trajectory. Doesn't the background setting in Gundam say that's what they used to have so all the ships end up having anti-laser coating or something.

>>14520282
>>14515855
well Minovsky particles would make camera based targeting useless as well, they mess with visible light too, what shows up on the monitors isn't the actual visual the camera picks up(since that often is a blurry mess), but rather a computer generated approximation

also in UC at least computer technology seems to have overall stalled sometime in the mid 80's for the most part outside of Haros