Macross Delta

Speculation:
Mirage will end up flying for Windmere, possibly unwillingly.

>>14484844

Why?

>>14484844

I doubt it, if only because if it was going to happen it probably already would have. It's unlikely to happen now when Windermere are probably due to become sympathetic in the next few episodes. Also because once you have it it doesn't just dissappear as shown with Messer.

Here's my thoughts on Var syndrome.
I think the Var is simply why Winderemereans are physically tougher than the other races.

Look at their abilities.
>Fold wave sensitivity
>Physical strength/agility

Now look at Var victims.
>They can "hear" fold waves
>They suddenly become /fit/ as fuck

It only becomes Var as we know probably because the seidznoid(From the apple+water combo) is not actually meant for any of the other races, the apples they need for the apple+water combo are Winderemere specific, not everywhere in the cluster. Note that all the Var cases we know of are of every other race but not Winderemereans despite the fact that Winderemereans would have been eating their apples and probably unknowingly drinking the water from the ruins.

That said, the mindcontrol aspect might have been due to the seidznoid being heavily based off the Vajra's stomach virus(Like everything else the Protoculture made), and the hivemind aspect of the original virus probably carried over and became the mindcontrol ability.

With the ruins and everything, Winderemere was probably a test to emulate the Vajra's fold network, to create a large network that Winderemereans could "connect" to, in a way. When the seidznole is in non-Winderemerean, they "connect" to the network when exposed to it, and gets mindcontrolled in the process because they never were intended to use the seidnole.

>>14484852

Do they become fitter or stronger? I just recall them getting angrier when uncontrolled, never physically enhanced on even close to the Windermere people are.

>>14484872
Their muscles certainly became huge.

The fact the seidnole isn't intended for them would have meant they get a shittier version of what a Winderemerean have, along with the rabies and/or mindcontrol. It isn't confirmed that they get superstrength, but the muscles becoming huge might be something related.

>>14484844
That's completely ridiculous

>>14484883

I don't even remember huge muscles to be honest, just bulging veins.

>>14484892
Messer got huge muscles when he went Var.

>>14484852
That's what I've been thinking ever since Messer's case.

>>14484872
They seem to get stronger (though the extent of that effect is unclear), and Messer definitely got some improvements to reaction time and such in his last sortie. Keith himself all but said that Messer was flying like a Windermerean ace.

>>14484892
Messer gets pretty jacked.

But in all seriousness, like with most media, they just pick and choose stuff to suit the situation. Your typical Spacy pilot or Zent that goes Var only goes veiny, for example. Getting huge is probably mainly a stylistic choice to show that something is becoming other than human.

Messer got jacked. Even though it's only a simulation, they made the actor get jacked in Freyja's Walkure interview.

And speaking of Zents and Melts, they've been missing for a while. I want to see some Queadluun-Raus or something.

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>Freyja facing front in the light
>Mikumo off to the side in the dark
>This is the last time they spoke as friends

>>14484900

Wasn't it Kaname's buff that did that though?

>>14484922
She was only able to buff him because he became fold sensitive through the Var.

There is probably some deeper shit, maybe there is a compatibility thing other than fold wave output since only Kaname really had an effect on Messer.

>>14484922
The Var did that. Kaname just kept him from going insane in the process.

>>14484922
Kaname/Messer's case might actually be a form of the Var mindcontrol.

Instead of controlling the person outright, she kept him sane and the other effects of Var(physical enhancements) just became the buffs alongside his resonance with Kaname.

>>14484928

Then why does Hayate get better reactions and so on under a song buff given he has no Bar?

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>>14484940
That's the same shit that happened with Alto.
I think they call it fold resonance.

Messer's Var gave him the fold sensitivity for him to even resonate with Kaname in the first place.
Hayate presumably uses the fold quartz to resonate with Freyja.

>>14484940
Hayate has a fold receptor. In essence you can say he carries VAR too, but he's immune to losing control of his brain or going berserk, because the fold receptor deals with that.

VAR in itself is the effect of fold bacteria going haywire in a person who doesn't have fold receptor

>>14484946

Yes, but both according to that theory it was Var that gave Messer enhanced reflexes but song that gave Hayate them. So why did song not give Messer enhanced reflexes?

>>14484940
I expect that fold receptivity is just a controlled version of the var, similar to what Windermereans have naturally.

>>14484964
Kaname prevented Var from passing the point where he goes berserk(Possibly reducing the other effects of Var like physical enhancements as well), and he resonates with her through the fold sensitivity from Var.

The enhanced reflexes is probably due to the song buff.
In Messer's case, the song buff is only possible with Var since he didn't have fold receptors.

>>14484922
It's probably a combo of the two. People talk as if it's a clear cut one or the other.

Var makes people that aren't fold sensitive, fold sensitive. Var also has unclear buffs to somebody, at the cost of their sanity. Walkure act as a Var debuffer.

So Var was buffing Messer. Kaname's regular singing can debuff Var and the fold sensitivity induced by the Var would have also allowed for Messer to attain songbuffs from Kaname and the resonance between the two probably allowed a nice balance between Var buff/debuff so that it stayed under control.

So, overall you have Var buff and a resonance buff due to the induced fold-sensitivity.

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>Cure for Var discovered
>Windfags just made everybody in the galaxy fold-sensitive

>https://www.4chan.org/banner-contest/c
>that sixth one

>>14485023
>Cure for Var discovered
What? No. Walkure just suppresses it, not make it go away.

remove windmeer

Obviously one of the knights is going to go down, because they telegraphed Jade Falcon guy carking it soon and Delta Platoon is overdue a win. I'm thinking that there'll be a big fight after Hayate gets over his father drama, and that's where the tide will turn.

I also think that we're going to lose an idol. Two options are Mikumo leaving either to join the antagonists in search of answers or to just go on a journey or loses her powers or whatever, or pink girl dying. I think she'd make the most sense because her relationship with green and that arc has already happened before the show started so by killing her off they'd give green a recovery arc. Then you use the slot opened to put Heinz in after he gets captured/rescued from the true antagonist (whoever that turns out to be) in a penultimate ep and joins Walkure in order to show some galactic peace and cooperation.

Initially I thought that Delta Platoon would have someone from Windermere switch sides to fill in on the piloting side but now I'm not so sure.

https://youtu.be/CuECM8uugIM For Freyjafags

>>14485079
I wasn't talking about Walkure, I was talking about the future.

>>14485174
I wonder if the Windies can "muh wind" out of a MDE?

>>14485181
Probably Cassim after he realizes he's on the crazy side

>>14485181
I think they are setting up Keith to defect with the line about following Roid as long as he is following the winds of Winderemere.

At one point, Roid will do something that Keith opposes, and Keith will probably take Heinz with him to ruin Roid's plan.

>>14484852
Freija didn't eat Windermere for a long time and seem like nothing bad happen

>>14485439
*apple

>>14484844
Fuck off Freyjacuck.

>>14485023
Aren't the nuns already making fold jammers?

Also they've never been too bright.

>>14485890
Due to an error in filed paperwork up until now they were developing jam folders instead. They are addressing the issue now.

Keith is the worst gary stu, if all their valkyrie are the same how come his flies faster than his teammates, and valkyries aren't op like gundams how the fuck was he able to destroy a whole fleet.

>>14485939
sticky but tasty

>>14486121
But his Draken has different wings, so they ain't the same.

>>14486131
It looked like borgues when he got shot down. I thought they used the same

>>14486136
No, Keith has some sort of ace or commander's special variant. It has different wings and head, and a longer nose.

This is Keith's http://macross.jp/delta/mechanic/index07.php

This is the other knights
http://macross.jp/delta/mechanic/index08.php

>>14486136

According to Hayate he's better at controlling it at higher speeds too, and can do so with greater finesse - though that's really more of an atmospheric thing, since there's resistance in an atmosphere.

>>14486147
It does look better than the other ones.

But don't the nuns have better pilots than hayate and Messer it's impossible for them to be outgunned by a planet that only has 5 fighters

>>14484844

we're halfway through, its not gonna happen

>>14486165

They could possibly have. They don't have Walkure though, so their pilots all fall victim to Var almost immediately regardless of skill. Now that they've trailed Fold Jammers though they'll probably put up better resistance.

>>14484895
I need a Var'd-Messah/Kaname doujin...

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>>14486147

262Ba is way sexier than the 262Hs

>>14484920
Kaname's looks like she means business.

>>14486165
>But don't the nuns have better pilots

doesn't really matter if they get MCed. at the cat planet there was an ace in the garrison

>>14485181
>or pink girl dying. I think she'd make the most sense because her relationship with green and that arc has already happened before the show started so by killing her off they'd give green a recovery arc.
Would Kawamori really do this kind of twist to break expectations?

>>14486212
You are blind my friend

>>14486165
Not only does Keith have Rune super senses, he was getting buffed with Heinz. Not to mention all Keith had to do was shoot down the Fold Jammers. The Var did the rest

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>>14486269

Naw.

*2. 77,527 *,*77,527 Walküre "Walkure Attack!"
81. **,960 *,**6,544 Macross Δ OST 1 by Saeko Suzuko,TOMISIR, Mina Kubota
78. **,796 *,*58,899 Macross Δ OP/ED "Ichido dake no Koi nara / Rune ga Pika tto Hikattara" by Walküre (Mikumo Δ JUNNA, Freyja Δ Minori Suzuki, Kaname Δ Kiyono Yasuno, Makina Δ Nozomi Nishida, Reina Δ Nao Touyama)

>>14484844
>he wants zessica 2.0

>>14486409
But we already have that

>>14486425

No, Zessica was likable and energetic and was made for the MC, syncing with him on every level and being his ideal woman.

That's Freyja, not Mirage. And if Freyja loses the Hayatebowl Kawamori will probably be burned in effigy.

>>14486363
>*2. 77,527 *,*77,527 Walküre "Walkure Attack!"
What's the chance of it getting to 90k?

>>14486722
50%
Depends on this week.

>>14486445
>burned in effigy
If that happens, wouldn't the whole audience end up getting high by accident?

>>14485181

I still have no idea what the fuck Mikumo is supposed to be, but I'm sure she's gonna die while singing either at the finale or halfway through second cour.

>>14486212
>re-using german aircraft designation numbers for the "enemy" faction's crafts

Yamato already did that and at least in Yamato the Garmillan 262 was a proper twin engine.

>>14486363

I didn't know Delta was actually succesful, damn.

>>14486722
Why 90k?

>>14487032
I think the walkure album's beating the first Frontier OST? The second frontier sold like absolute crazy though

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>>14487107

Awwww, shiet that looks nice.

I saw a Fire Valk VF-31 custom once, but I can't seem to find it again.

>>14487249

What figures (and scale) are those?

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>>14487062
>Why 90k?
<---Probably this

>>14487106
>I think the walkure album's beating the first Frontier OST?
Macross Frontier O.S.T.1 Nyan Fro sold 183,000 copies.

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>>14487335

Non-scale mechacolle. Based on their measurements I think they'd come to 1/180?

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Is Mirage going to live up to her family name eventually?

>>14487446
probably later while teaming up with hayate

>>14487032
>I still have no idea what the fuck Mikumo is supposed to be, but I'm sure she's gonna die while singing either at the finale or halfway through second cour.

I honestly think she'll become a villain. Her personality can be really cruel at times, and if she's related to the protoculture ruins I can see her switching sides to take control of them.

>>14486735
Is the top from SDF?

I seem to recall some fucked up deaths in SDF, but I can't recall if that is from Gundam or Macross

>>14487638
It's DYRL

>>14487638
It's from DYRL.

>>14487405
That's it's final number. It's first week was 72k in which case the first Walkure album would be beating it

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-06-10/1st-anime-album-in-11-years-to-rank-in-japan-top-3

>>14487385
>Freyja keeps making funny faces and stuff
>nothing sticks and becomes meme magic like KIRA

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>>14487792
Meme magic and internet culture as a whole was different in the late 00s compared to now. You see anything like keikaku doori or basically anything in Code Geass in recent years?

>>14487808

Its because there is less of a bottleneck now.

Before we had such a wide access to anime content, everyone watched the same few shows because that's what was available. This created the environment for memes to really take off, because everyone was in on the joke so it could spread.

These days, everyone is watching different stuff, so only the most popular of stuff gets enough of a userbase for the memes to propagate and stick. We get little memes, but they rarely grow into big memes.

>>14487875
Memes are stupid.

>>14487808
>>14487875
Strangely it's not just a thing with the Western audience. KIRA and nyan nyan nihao nyan were largely forced by Nips. I guess they're just as burned out on memes like we are.

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>>14487933
Rune Pika Beam became a meme for the show itself at least

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMns5vE1mX4

>>14487978
10/10
Still looks 20 times better than /m/ draws

>>14487978
>The part where Mirage just dumps the stupid pet behind her

Kek. Better than the real thing just for that alone. Nowhere near as good as the /m/ draws Macross OP though.

>>14487978
>the smooth as fuck missile spam scene
>Hayate/Mirage combo is also smooth as fuck
Amazing

I love how big hollywood blockbuster-esque AD 2067 sounds.
All those swelling classical instruments, unf

>>14488029
I feel Delta's usage of classical instruments, especially in the Walkure songs, is highly underrated

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>>14487561
>I honestly think she'll become a villain. Her personality can be really cruel at times, and if she's related to the protoculture ruins I can see her switching sides to take control of them.

Just reading that reminded me of that plot point in Frontier where the assistant became one with whatever that last-boss monster was at the end and made me wince.

I need to rewatch Frontier one of these days. When watching Delta I get the feeling that it's much lower budget than Frontier, but that may just be because I forgot about Frontier's worse parts.

Where can I find the song with all the engrish that played most recently in ep 14 with the power cables?

>>14488048
That's NEO STREAM. It should be on the Walkure Attack album

>>14488048
The world God only knows.

>>14487978
>that Ranka/Sheryl
>that missile spam
>that combo
>that Psyco
10/10

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>>14484920
>>14485023
>OP has a line called ABSOLUTE ZERO
>It sounds a bit like ON YOUR WAY from Ridge Racer Type 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uh8LQfx8a0
Namco infiltration of Macross Delta confirmed Buddy

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HAPPY FATHER'S DAY

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>>14488284
>Wright Immelmann
Funny that he's named after two known aviation pioneers.
Think he's the pilot of the VF-22?

>Hayate's dad is a black ops soldier dispatched all over the sector

>dear Hayate, today I blew up some sandnigge-no, no, too grim and classified
>dear Hayate, there's lots of sand here on this desert planet

>dear Hayate, today I dropped a nuke on Winde-no, highly classified
>dear Hayate, it's very windy here

>dear Hayate, I'm on this ocean planet to torpedo some rebe-
>it's really wet here

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>>14488415
Fucking wetworker. It all makes sense, indeed.

>>14488436
how else would he get his hands on fold quartz which humanity can only harvest from vajra corpses?

>>14488485
>vajra corpses
Or Protoculture ruins, which probably got their fold quartz from Vajra corpses as well.

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>>14488485
>>14488495
What really interests me is how his father got called up for black ops duty. He must've been one hell of a pilot.
Suddenly the theory that he was part of the anti-Vajra queen task force lost a bit of credibility.

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Reminder that Windermere is the superior protoculture species and is on the glorious crusade to reclaim rightful clay

>>14488495
Actually the Protoculture figured out how to make their own. According to the Macross Chronicle entry on the Bird Human.

>>14488295
>Think he's the pilot of the VF-22?
I literally can't see any other reason why they would introduce how Winderemere got nuked and then bring up Hayate's dad in the same episode if this wasn't the case

They should sell Macross to sunrise and let them make one every years.

>>14489126
Sunrise would rather make more Love Live.

>>14489126

Marcross is one of their big money spinners alongside Symphogear. They might make more in the short term by selling, but they could make more long term by keeping it. If they're not making it every year it's because they don't want to I imagine, not because they couldn't.

>>14489132
This.

>>14489132
This. Why would Sunrise want it when Gundam and Love Live makes more money as a whole?

Also Bandai owns both of them anyway

>>14489126

I'm actually okay with Macross coming out less frequently, because I feel like I would enjoy it less if it became more mass produced.

I really like the organic feeling evolution of the technology and culture in the setting over time. Everything that, at first glance, seems batshit in Delta can be traced back to logical origins in previous shows. Each show is new and does new things, but builds on what came before in a way that I feel just works.

I don't think they would be able to keep that up if the show came out more frequently. They would have to start dipping into the same well more often.

Do you really want Macross to turn into Gundam where we get 6 new shows in the next decade, and 4 of them are about fighting Zeo- I mean, Zentradi?

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Based Risa Ebata

>>14489422
>high-res scans never

Fells bad man. So much Macross artwork goes unscanned.

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Is this the strongest Macross Cannon?

>>14489447
There isn't really a strongest Macross Cannon, considering that proper Macross Cannons fucks space itself.

The Quarter's cannon doesn't fuck space as much though.

>>14489453
NUNS need to add MDE properties to Macross cannons for improved space-fucking.

>>14489459
>>14489447
What about SDF-01 macross and battle 7's macross canon? How powerful it is?

>>14489502

Very fucking

>>14485197
Nope. Which is why when the NUNS decides to fuck the media and deploys dimension weapons on Windermere, they're fucked.

Windies can only win because of Var.

>>14489091
They were mentioning Hayate's dad and nuke since forever. Since both plot lines progressed in the same episode it doesn't mean they are directly related to each other.

If Hayate's dad intentionally dropped the bomb I don't understand why Arad would still respect him.
If Hayate's dad dropped the bomb against his will I don't understand why Arad wouldn't try to find the truth about his friend and expose NUNS crime.

>>14490139

Presuming it was against his will Arad may have been more concerned about what made him do it than about what he did, setting up Delta Squad to help fight the Var infection since it fucked over his friend and he was probably not believed going by that one soldier's reaction.

>>14490163
How did Hayate's father get DE bomb in the first place? They must be protected and I doubt he could get and equip VF-22 with DE by himself. NUNS would need to allow the usage of DE and equip Wright's fighter with it. Then if there was no treason or Var why would NUNS order him to bomb NUNS base? If there was treason or Var then what was the original target of NUNS?

I'm expecting lots of frodo.jpg in the next episode.

>>14490225

The original target was almost certainly the ruin on Windermere, given the annoyance of those guys in NUNs at just the mention of it when talking about bombing ruins. Wright didn't steal an MDE, theyth basically gave it to him (through special operations chain of command) because he was ordered to bomb the ruins. Then he got Var'd in to bombing Carlisle instead. Them ordering it isn't treason because they're NUNs officers and can do that shit as part of their job. I don't know why that's hard to understand.

>>14490266
Because then there are lots of other questions.

Why did NUNS want to destroy ruins? It doesn't seem like anyone even knew about mind control back then. If windies could use it 7 years ago already why did it take so long to use it again for their next war?
Last chapter of Keith manga was just few months before the war. And Roid only found the ruins. I don't believe he could research and learn mind control in such a short time.

Why did NUNS use DE for ruins and ont start with ordinary reactive bomb? If NUNS were so fucking afraid of mind conrtol and ruins to use prohibited DE then why did they stop after one single failed operation?

>>14490225
>How did Hayate's father get DE bomb in the first place? They must be protected and I doubt he could get and equip VF-22 with DE by himself. NUNS would need to allow the usage of DE and equip Wright's fighter with it.

Well he shouldn't be able to get one in the first place, they're illegal and banned by galactic treaty. Whoever equipped him with one was in the wrong before it even was used, regardless of the intended target.

I'm guessing we have a shadow organization within the NUNS that were behind it, with ties to Epsilon in some fashion.

>>14490303
There's no indication in the keith manga that ruins had just been found in the last chapter.

>>14490311
Just checked it. You're right.
Still Roid was 12 or 13 back then. Could he really research mind control on his own during free time between academy lesson at that age? Even if Epsilon helped him who was wind singer for that mind control? Why was he never mentioned again?

>>14490303

> Why did NUNs want to destroy ruins?

They didn't, they wanted to take Protoculture ship out of Fold Space and bombing it is their means to do so, hence why when they bombed the ones on Ragna, that one NUNs guy reported the Protoculture thing emerged as expected.

> It doesn't seem like anyone even know about mind control back then

It's only 7 years and we know Var was around with a while before the series began since planets like Al Shahal had Var warning systems and shelters.

If Windies could use it 7 years ago already why did it take so long to use it again for their next war?

It didn't, they were using it since before the series, though only in an experimental manner suggesting they didn't get a hang of it until about episode 6 or so when they formally declare war. They were definitely using it though.

> And Roid only found the ruins.

It's a manga so it may not be official and personally I find the idea they didn't know where the ruins were with centuries difficult to believe. That aside, Var could easily predate the ruins, since all they do is amplify Heinz's song, not produce or power it.

> I don't believe he could research and learn mind control in such a short time

He hasn't. He's got little to do with the mind control, which is either Heinz or Epsilon really.

> Why did NUNs use DE for ruins and not start with an ordinary reaction bomb?

They may have been using one just in case and downgraded to a reaction bomb to prevent another case like Windermere where it caused public consternation. They almost certainly did further research in those seven years, which may have said an anti-matter bomb was enough. They may also not have been able to get permission to use an anti-matter bomb on an ally planet, unlike Windermere who they were at war with.

>>14490345

> why did they stop after one single failed operation

Too hot. Public outcry prevented them doing so given the confusion over who bombed Windermere. Plus, they no longer had a presence there and we know getting there is difficult because there's fold faults following the dimension eater going off.

You're really over thinking this. Most of it is already in the show.

>>14490305

It's not like something being illegal really stops a government from doing it, only doing it publicly. They don't need to be part of a shadow organization to be behind it, since governments are normally willing to do shady stuff with a bit of persuasion.

>>14490139
>They were mentioning Hayate's dad and nuke since forever
Actually they haven't. Hayate's dad got mentioned for the first time last week when they brought up his crystal. We have been talking about it more than the show because it was mentioned on the main website and because gg's little subtitle intuition when Arad says that line that sounded like he was talking about his father but he didn't explicitly say so (but we know for sure he was now).

As for the nuke, they never actually showed how it happened, just that it did happen. Remember there were people who actually thought Winderemere's nuked themselves because of that one cat president guy and Ace Combat dank memes. However in this episode they show how it happened for the first time and more specifically that it happened with a spec-ops VF

>>14490345
>hence why when they bombed the ones on Ragna, that one NUNs guy reported the Protoculture thing emerged as expected.
First of all you don't need to blow up anything for things from Fold Space to appear as was shown in the last episode. If NUNS only wanted the ship to be revealed why did they get the fuck out of planet after the nuke? They got their keikaku and then just left.
Also it was never "as expected", it was "yahari" as he never was 100% sure it would happen. Why would he blow Ragna's ruins if it wasn't necessary? Why didn't NUNS blow ruins on all other planets even though they had the chance?

>It's only 7 years and we know Var was around with a while before the series began since planets like Al Shahal had Var warning systems and shelters.
At the time of Macross E (2 years after the war) Var wasn't a big hazard yet. It affected only animals, not people.

>He's got little to do with the mind control, which is either Heinz or Epsilon really.
Heinz was 2 years old back then. Who was the singer during independence war then?

>>14490350
>Too hot. Public outcry prevented them doing so given the confusion over who bombed Windermere
But they didn't give a fuck about public when trying to nuke ruins in the first place. How would they cover it? They needed to be in extreme panic to use DE. Was mind control really so frightening?

>>14490410
>Also it was never "as expected", it was "yahari" as he never was 100% sure it would happen
I'm pretty sure every translation of Yahari is "as expected"

>>14490410

> First of all you don't need to blow up anything for things from Fold Space to appear as was shown in the last episode

Yes, you do. At least, you do when you don't have a tame Wind Singer like Windermere does. And like Chaos does, though seven years ago they didn't exist either. Even presuming they know that you can sing it out.

> why did they get the fuck out of the planet after the nuke?

Because they can't actually use it at that juncture, the planet was already falling to the enemy and they don't have a Sigur Valens equivalent, at least there or at all that we know of.

> he was never 100% sure it would happen

Okay. Then that was more research than confirmation. The above still applies.

> Why would he blow Ragna's ruins if it wasn't necessary

To him it was, since he had to check if what they wanted to happen would and it served a double duty since it also helped stop their enemies if the ruins did actually blow up in the process.

> Why didn't NUNs blow ruins on all other planets even though they had the chance?

Cause they didn't have the chance? Ever. Every other planet was an ally they couldn't go around blowing up property of. By the time they were not allies they couldn't access those planets since they Windermere controlled them.

> At the time of Macross E (2 years after the war) Var wasn't a big hazard yet. It only affected animals, not people

Again, manga only, grain of salt etc. That said, it was only affecting animals during trials - the incident with Wright may have been an unexpected affect of something or a more successful trial they couldn't replicate. Assuming Epsilon wasn't doing it and only gave partial info out on it to Windermere.

>>14490463

> Heinz was 2 years old back then.

I wasn't aware we had an age. Even the official page in Japan has no character bio for him. 9 seems a bit young and I'd have though 14 or something. Still, assuming you're right then Epsilon may have had another means of doing it without a wind singer, had a different wind singer (like Mikumo) or it could have been a wild case that happened unexpectedly, like something that happened with young Heinz to reveal his talent, but not an active or focused decision, just done out of desire to protect or something. I'm sure the show would reveal it if it is the case that he was under the effects of Var.

> they didn't give a fuck about public when trying to nuke ruins in the first place

Shadow organisations generally don't, until they're caught. Then they have to care, because their moves are under scrutiny.

> How would they cover it.

The same way they already did: confusion.

> They needed to be in extreme panic to use a DE

Not really. They could use it for numerous reasons not limited to panic, like wanting to be sure of their research by using another fold weapon to get a fold thing out of a fold.

> Was mind control really so frightening?

They didn't even know about it at the time most likely. But yes. How is that even a question?

>>14489126
>They should sell Macross to sunrise
I would rather a new Escaflowne.

The main problem is I'm arguing with several people here. And each one of them has their own theory. One thinks NUNS ordered to do it reveal protoculture ship, other thinks he was just Var'd, another theory is that Epsilon just wanted NUNS to get out. If there is no obvious theory and all explanations are full of laws, maybe none of the theories is right. I can't answer every single post when none of you even try to think at least one step ahead. Also fucking character limit.

>>14490469
>Because they can't actually use it at that juncture, the planet was already falling to the enemy and they don't have a Sigur Valens equivalent, at least there or at all that we know of.
Protoculture ship was under the mountain far away from the hole. How did they move it if they couldn't operate it? Did they build a whole mountain on top of it? Also Epsilon guy said that Roid was the one who found the ship. Did Roid find it in the hole after explosion and was just like "woah, cool shit, I'm not gonna ask why it's here". Or do you think Roid is evil enough he was the one behind nuking Windermere together with Epsilon?
I think we can agree theory that NUNS or Epsilon nuked Windermere to reveal the ship is impossible.

>>14490469
>I wasn't aware we had an age.
It's in manga (chapter 2). He was born in 2058 when Keith joined academy. Heinz is 9 now. He was 2 years old during the war and couldn't sing.
If Epsilon had other means for mind control why don't they use it now instead of putting strain on Heinz's health every time? If they had Mikumo during the first war why didn't they recognize her? If they had another singer what happened with him and why he was never mentioned again?
The theories "NUNS were afraid of mind control" or "Hayate's dad got mind controlled" are possible, but it requires some serious ass pulls.

>>14490618
> The theories "NUNS were afraid of mind control" or "Hayate's dad got mind controlled" are possible, but it requires some serious ass pulls.

Not necessarily.

For example, we know that they need Heinz and the Song of the Wind to use the var as a weapon on an massive scale, but the range needed to affect a single pilot during the first war would have been much, much smaller. It could simply be that the ruins can be used to limited effect by anyone with the right equipment (such as fold quartz), but you need someone fold-active to use them to anywhere near their full potential.

>>14490583

> How did they move it if they couldn't operate it?

I don't believe they ever said they couldn't operate it, only that they understood more of it's function and could use it as part of the plan because of it. All they ever seemed to be researching was it's use as a Protoculture ruin interface, not how to operate it as a ship. Even if at some point they couldn't move it, the mountain is hollow, so the Protoculture may have built the mountain around it.

> I think we can agree theory that NUNs or Epsolon nuked Windermere to reveal the ship is impossible

I wasn't even aware that was a theory. I don't think it's impossible, I do think it's unlikely though.

>>14490618

> why don't they use it instead of putting strain on Heinz's health every time

They don't appear to be the nicest or most straight up guys, so using an ally even at personal cost wouldn't seem above them. And that's presuming that their other option isn't harder to initiate than Heinz's singing.

> why didn't they recognize her

I wasn't aware they ever showed a lack of recognition. Lack of action isn't the same thing as lack of recognition. They may no longer want her or she may no longer be an asset they feel they can take since she's a highly public figure.

> why was he never mentioned again

No idea. I'm going to wait and find out, since it may not even be the case.

> it requires some serious ass pulls

Not really. I can't actually think of any.

>>14490645
Ok, It would not be ass pull, but still "weak" writing. They would need to show someone singing in flashback and then explain why we never saw him again.
Unless Roid was the one singing during independence war. But that would be too hilarious to be true.

You know, they're probably going to explain it all next week.

When Hayate made that stunt, against Mirage, based on the seacat in ep3, what was that a reference to?

>>14490684

You're calling anything you can't think of weak writing or an asspull, which isn't what either means. Just because they haven't explained them yet or you can't see how it works doesn't mean either will be the case.

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>>14490679
>I don't believe they ever said they couldn't operate it
Then you need to re-watch that episode. This is what Epsilon guy said.
Heinz was singing from within the ship and using it for mind control from the very first episode. So activate here most likely means "fly".

>so the Protoculture may have built the mountain around it.
Yes. I think that's probably correct. But the original theory was that NUNS bombed the ship to reveal it. Yet nuke didn't destroy the mountain. And actually hole was far away from ship location.

>>14490702

That scene seemed to be a reference to the scene in Macross Zero when shin dove his VF-0 underwater to retrieve the AFOS head.

>>14490713

Heinz was singing from within the ruins as far as we know, not within the ship. Activate it could also be referring to activating the ship's FTL, the ship's Protoculture synching systems (since they were aware how to do that as soon as it appeared and didn't appear surprised by it) or most anything else, not just it's engines/power.

> the original theory was that NUNs bombed the ship to reveal it

No, it wasn't. The theory was that they may have wanted to bomb the ruins to reveal the ship it stands on to (presumably) form a Birdman, not the Sigur Valens itself. You seem to be assuming that the ship and the ruins are one and the same, which I don't believe there's any grounds for.

> nuke didn't destroy the mountain

Because it wasn't aimed at it in the end.

>>14490712
If something is explained it doesn't mean it's not ass pull or good writing.
For example imagine a detective story where main character tries to find the murderer. And then in the end it's revealed that murderer is some guy we never saw before. Everything is explained, everything is logical, but such story would be considered complete shit.

>>14490746

> If something is explained it doesn't mean it's not ass pull or good writing

Of course it doesn't. You can't know until it's revealed though. Calling it weak because you can't think of anything they could reveal that satisfies you when they're still doing the mystery and build up is idiotic though, since it's literally impossible to know.

>>14490734
I mean the "this animal does a trick and I copy it for the dogfight".
It seems like something that could be in Frontier.

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>>14490743
>Heinz was singing from within the ruins as far as we know, not within the ship.
What ruins? It was always inside the fucking ship. Always. Same interior in every episode. Same hangar with VFs in every episode. Are you blind or something?

>Activate it could also be referring to bla-bla-bla
It's grasping straws. Why would they use word "activate" then? It's fucking retarded and I'm not even going to explain why.

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Also this is where that protoculture thing from ruins was summoned. If it was indeed nuked it would destroy the capital as well.

>>14490786

Yeah, that's what happened in Zero, he had a flashback to flying fish before diving his plane into the ocean.

>>14490811
OK, I don't remember that at all. I guess Frontier had a reference to it as well.

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>>14489447
how many hundreds of thousands of ships were sunk per salvo?

>>14490854
The Macross Cannon class ships are my favorite thing about Macross 2.

>>14490225
Well, there's a bit of speculation regarding that. The bomb was dropped in a spot that benefited no one, the most likely explanation is that he was hit by Var.

Wright is sent out to nuke the ruins to prevent them from being weaponized, probably after NUNS was purposefully tipped off by Epsilon(so they can pull the ruins out via the bomb, perhaps), with some pushing from Epsilon infiltrators in NUNS, they managed to get a MDE bomb. However, on his way there, the experiments Epsilon was running triggered Var in Wright, and he bombed the base and everyone there.
NUNS retreat, thinking that he betrayed them. Winderemere is angry at NUNS because technically a NUNS VF did it, and Epsilon gets some breathing space on top of a successful attempt to trigger Var in people, which they pass to Winderemere to be developed futher in the 8 years until Delta happened.

>>14484886
Anon, this is macross. Ridiculous is possible

>>14490891
But macross 2 is not Canon.

>>14492087
That's probably my favourite thing from macross 2. that it isn't canon.

It seems like he did something wrong from a military perspective. I think it's a misdirection. Arad knows Hayate's dad and even states that his dad would be proud of Hayate. Arad and the captain were both part of NUNS and are now private contractors. Whatever happened on Windermere probably caused them to leave. My theory is that Wright did something to protect Windermere - Most likely dropping that bomb in the safest place possible. Whatever he did, he clearly tarnished his name as far as the military is concerned, but Arad still seems to hold him in high regard.
Arad was trying to block the soldier from seeing Hayate clearly! Could there be enough family resemblance that the guy would have recognized him as an Immelman? Keith was shot down 7 years ago! He may not have been "White Knight" level of skill, but still noteworthy. Who shot him down?

>>14493089
>Most likely dropping that bomb in the safest place possible
Reminder that it was dropped on NUNS forces and additionally killed lots of civilians. So it had to be either evil intention or unexpected circumstance (for example Var like mentioned by >>14491892).

>>14493120
then why must it drop at the town that killed millions? is it a misfire?

>>14493122
Dropping this bomb.

With no survivors.

>>14493122
Most likely he got Var'd and dropped the bomb that way.

Look at the bombing from multiple perspective.
>NUNS
Their own people and a base was hit, and they quickly retreated after that. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever for them to nuke their own people then retreat.
>Winderemere
Winderemere will not nuke their own people.
>Epsilon or any other shady third party looking to use the ruins
The bomb did not hit any ruins(Or even the location where the ruins would come out from the dimensional pocket its in).

In a way, nobody really benefitted from the bomb being dropped at the location it is dropped.

>>14493140
it does if there was an ulterior motive of getting research data or something, and the planet didn't ultimately matter much to them. Especially if the group that wanted the data are a rogue element within NUNS.

>>14493188
>getting research data or something
From what?
All the bomb did was nuke a military base and kill innocent civilians.

If they secretly needed research data about the ruins, the bomb would have been dropped at the ruins, but it wasn't. Even if they did send him to drop the bomb at the ruins, something happened that he dropped it elsewhere.

>>14493140
Seems like either he was Var'd into using it on his own forces, but managed to resist for a second and drop it early, or Windermere didn't have good control of the Var back then and could only make him drop it early. If its the former then they're using the failure as propaganda, if its the latter then they're simply royally pissed that the NUNS came so close to erasing the protoculture relics on their turf.

>>14493195
I think that if Var is involved, then he must have dropped it while under the out-of-control-space-rabies Var that we saw early on, not the mindcontrol type.

The whole thing reeks of a third party orchestrating a war between windermere and NUNS. Normally such a war wouldn't go very far, but they're given access to mind control technology and cutting edge fighters by a certain benefactor. I'm sure they're just helping them from the goodness of their hearts.

Bomb enrages windermere by killing millions of their civilians. It also handily wipes out a large chunk of NUNS forces on Windermere, giving them time to prepare. The bomb really does make sense for a third party to have dropped it. Not so much NUNs themselves or Windermere.

I think getting Var'ed is so far the closest thing I can think of as the most likely scenario

I enjoy Macross recap show but they completely shat on episode 14

>>14493316
episode 15 is up..

I didn't like the VF-31 when it was first unveiled, but it's really grown on me.

>>14493408

How does Kaname's hat stay on?

>>14493316
>>14493329
They come off as unneccessarily .. moronic this time. I kinda liked listening to them most episodes, but here they just seem clueless. Missing the throwback to Hikaru propelling himself in zero g by throwing things is pretty inexcusable too.

>>14493436
it's on a hairband most likely

>>14493329
Better but they didnt mentipn how the Windermereans were not really on board with Roids plans which I feel is important and even Herman and Cassim thought their Var tactics were cowardly

>>14493479
Instead they go on about how weird it is for this feudal society to have low tech gear for their civilians while their nobility and royalty have some really hightech technology. Or just they're missing so many beats this time its almost embarrassing

>>14493485
Yep waited 2 weeks for their show only to get one of their worst recaps

>>14493408
Why are Mikumo and Reina the only ones with black clothes? Is Mikumo going rogue and taking green with her?

>>14493479
Actually they do mention the divide in the older and younger generation but not at the right scene even Roid makes the east announcement

When did Macross fans get the idea that UN Spacy/NUNS was a benevolent organization

>>14493551
Military soldiers=cooler than anything

Even when the franchise is telling you otherwise

>>14493551
>>14493633

Not all of the UNS/NUNS are evil. We only see the bad elements like Mishima, Galaxy, Havamal, those who bombed Windmere ect.

It is said that Hayate's dad always travels a lot right? Could he be in the same situation as Isamu where he is a soldier who is hot headed and always disobey orders till the higher ups hated him and keep on posting him elsewhere?

>>14493716
>the only bad elements are the only ones shown to the viewer

>>14493716
Nobody said they were all evil. But the ones we see tend to be bad or at least not that competent

>>14493797
Its normal.

In fiction, high ranked military officers are either corrupted or incompetent or have their motives.

>>14493812

As opposed to real life where the majority are lazy, burnt out, and waiting for their pension to fully mature so they can retire.

>>14493812
>In fiction, high ranked military officers are either corrupted or incompetent or have their motives.
Well yes, but pretending "NUNS have done nothing wrong" is ridiculous since they've been portrayed as incompetent or just straight up making wrong decisions from the start

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What the fuck I hate NUNS now!

>>14495808
>believing Windermerian propaganda
If they always had this footage why did they never show it before? They could send it to all the news channels, post it on every forum and social media available in the galactic internet. NUNS wouldn't be able to prevent it from spreading.
It could start official investigation, evil guys would be punished and earthlings would apologize. And even if NUNS was able to convince everyone that video is fake, it would still make Windermerian political position stronger. They also could get few sympathizers from people with anti-UN mindset.
But it seems they never cared about the truth and finding people responsible for nuking Windermere. They just want their revenge. Fuck windies.

Alternatively they found this footage only now on one of the NUNS bases on Ragna/Voldor/Al-Shahal.

>>14495872
>If they always had this footage why did they never show it before?
You do realize that it's a TV show and not real life, right? In terms of setting up the characters you'd have a much harder time taking a liking for characters if you knew they were fighting for essentially the bad guys of the show from the beginning of the show. They obviously wanted to get viewers invested in the characters before dropping this proverbial bombshell on the viewers.

>>14495872
>Hurr durr... I cannot into plot twists!!1

>>14495872

Or it could be for the reason given in episode, that they took over the galactic network to prevent NUNs from covering it up and didn't reveal it prior to this point since it'd be drowned out or shushed.

>>14495915
What did you even try to imply? That you're retarded? I got it.

>>14495936
As i said they could send it to all the news channels, post it on every forum and social media available in the galactic internet. NUNS wouldn't be able to prevent it from spreading.
But I guess authors thought that your explanation is sufficient. Maybe internet is completely different in the future. It's still not entirely believable, but I don't consider this to be a real plot hole.

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So who else would like to see this faggot get her life completely destroyed? I feel like nothing else would make me happy.

>>14495958

Think of how ignorant people are right now of things happening on the same planet. Everyone is on their phone 24/7 connected to the internet through wi-fi and I still run into people who ask me "what's exactly the deal with ISIS?" "What's with the Hillary e-mail thing? Is that a real scandal or what?" or something equally ignorant about the biggest news stories today.

Now imagine that some backwater planet tries to get information out, when NUNS basically rules the galaxy. It would be buried instantly and/or ignored and pass under a lot of peoples' radar entirely.

That's why they had to take over the network first and probably start the war for publicity.

>>14495958

They wouldn't have access to much of the galactic net prior to the series, since NUNs controlled it and anything they posted to it would be routed through channels they control. They could post it to public discussion groups news sistes and it might get through, but even if it did it wouldn't have nearly the coverage this kind of move gives it since it'd just be seen as information war tactics or create more confusion over who did what. Waiting increases the chance it'll never get out since they might be defeated before it does, but also increases their visibility since literally every node on the galactic network was playing it given they control the whole thing now. It cannot be squashed or shushed now, and it's a lot harder to take it as misinformation since it's so widespread.

>>14495981
She literally did nothing wrong.

>>14495990
Freyja's player is connected to the Galaxy Network. It is how she found out about the auditions and Walkure.

The only thing the NUN did post war was a trade ban on Windermere. Windermere banned travel of its citizens off world and censorship of Earth culture.

Also Windermere is in a Fold Fault region. Megaroad 4 accidentally found Windermere 4 due to a Fold Fault.

So naturally there would be fold comm lag but it is surprisingly real time. The reason why is that Windermere has access to Fold Quartz equipment. Zauberflute or Magic Flute was a Fold Quartz equipped comm system which was the cover for Critical Path Corporation's Sound Jamming System. The Zauberflute was mentioned to be a part used on Sigur Valens Sound Wave System. Users of the Sound Jamming System were Critical Path, Anti-UN Zentradi group Black Rainbow and Earth supremacist group Lactence which was overthrown off Earth. It is likely Macross Galaxy has access to that technology as Critical Path president Manfred Brando was an associate of theirs and became data entity after being killed by Aegis Focker in a dogfight.

>>14497230

>Zauberflute or Magic Flute was a Fold Quartz equipped comm system which was the cover for Critical Path Corporation's Sound Jamming System

Was this a recent retcon? Fold Quartz isn't mentioned anywhere in the game itself, and most of the supplementary materials of the time said the Jammer on Macross 13 was based on Chiba's Sound Energy System research.

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So HorribleSubs is doing the actual subs, right? I know there are two groups working on subs, but one of them pumps them out faster, albeit with the quality/accuracy suffering a teensy bit.

Basically, my question is thus: Which one is the one that does a better job and takes longer?

>>14497609
>HorribleSubs
>doing subs
>ever

>>14497624
I'm looking at their page right now. Sorry, I geuss it's [gg]

Question still stands.

>>14497511
Back then it was called Hyperspace Resonance Crystalline Lens. In Macross Frontier novelization confirmed it and Fold Quartz are the same. Author of that novel is Kodachi Ukyo, Macross literature historian of Macross Delta who makes sure of canon connections as Kawamori don't remember everything. He also wrote the Macross the Ride novel , Macross 30 novel, and Macross Frontier Movie novelizations.

Mind you Macross seems to be going for less complicated terms as they are too long. Take Space-Time Resonance Ability mentioned in Macross Chronicle about Mayan Shrine Maiden powers is now called Fold Receptor Factor.

>>14497609
>>14497624
>>14497633

Only [gg] is subbing, since it's not simulcasted. HorribleSubs is just helping spread it. Every other upload on Nyaa is either gg's subs translated in another language, or with changed typesetting etc.

>>14497640
okay. I'm a downlaod them all tommorrow and start catching up.

Am anticipating this wild ride.

NEW OP IS GARBAGE

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>>14497674

Has there ever been a complete animation of a battle class transforming?

>>14500069
In delta you mean?

>>14495808
>see what appeared to be a VF-22 drop a bomb
>bomb exploded in orbit not the ground as Roid claimed


anon don't be buying into windermerian propaganda so easily

>>14500069

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG5HDoy7RTI

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I
LOVE
MYLENE

>>14500990
If the bomb exploded on the ground then there should be a massive fucking half sphere of a crater, not a tiny bowl

>>14497633
Horriblesubs don't do subs. They rip simulcasts. If there are no simulcasts, they're not 'subbing'

>>14502417
For what purpose?

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>>14502787
Why does love need a purpose?

>>14502812

isn't mylene 14 years old?

>>14502819
So?

>>14502819
And she has a driving license.

>>14502846
She's had a drivers license and car since 10.

Remove Windermere.

Windermere is best mere
Just wait till Bogue does a rune pikaaa

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Anybody know when the next album release is?

>>14502819
She was, but in 1994.

LONG LIVE BELKA

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>>14506526
Revenge for our defeat at the hands of filthy mercenary dogs soon, fellow Belkan