Flawed Mecha

the valvrave units seem to be somewhat limited by heat generation even if its subverted by the 666 thing and the heatsinks in the second season

File: Standing Turtle.jpg (32KB, 267x400px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 267x400px

>>14466673
There was an in-universe reason why it was designed that way, but I always thought it was hilarious that the Standing Turtle couldn't turn its head and instead had those little hatches that the pilots had to open if they wanted to look to either side.

>>14466791
What was the reason? Was it a scouting unit with a special data-gathering camera setup that necessitated the fixed head position and wasn't really meant to get into close combat situation?

>>14466812
Not him, but let me tell you the Standing Turtle is NO scout.

>>14466812
It's pretty much the opposite. It's meant for big pitched battles with lines and shit, so everything is focused on frontal armor and fixed, forward-facing weapons.

Of course, we see it used in Space Vietnam, so the dumb little hatches get a bunch of mooks killed when guerrillas just shoot them when they open the cockpits for peripheral vision.

>>14466897
It's not like other ATs weren't shot through the optics anyway. There was a battle at the end of Phantom Arc where Chirico killed three ATs this way without having an AT of his own. Phantom Arc kinda sucked.

But anyway, why would they bother with the hatches when they could just rotate the body wherever they needed to look?

File: c1da5a3c49128797c433de306426cd8b.jpg (177KB, 736x552px) Image search: [Google]

177KB, 736x552px

>>14466928
It's like these dudes right here, sticking the heads out of an armored vehicle with fixed, forward-facing weapons. The vehicle is only really made to shoot forward and get shot in the front, so anything that doesn't help with that purpose gets dropped in favor of more frontal armor and heavier guns.

The thing is, you still have to drive it, and sometimes that means you've got to look outside. It's less than ideal, but just having a door to stick your head out of is a low-tech solution to the problem of, "But how do I see where I'm going when I'm just driving to do the battle?"

Like the Standing Turtle, this thing would probably suck a lot in real Vietnam.

File: ThunderStallion.jpg (40KB, 410x500px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 410x500px

Most of the flawed battletech mechs seem to be related in some way or another to ammunition, its delivery, and its storage.

The wolf trap which I'm not posting because its got a fairly generic battletech look that a lot of the IS mechs share, had the problem of exposed ammo bins were in a backpack on the rear side of the mech, meaning it was easy to comically explode.

This beute here though decided to put several tons of AC20 ammo (some of the largest and most dangerous shells in the game) inside of the fucking head, where the cockpit is located. Basically if it had even one shot left on its main gun and the ammo bin was hit the pilot instantly died as the mech was decapitated.

File: FA-78-1 Gundam Full Armor Type.jpg (31KB, 240x400px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 240x400px

The added armor and weapons were too heavy and made the machine far too slow, thats why they had to redesign it to make a workable version of the concept.

The 'Heavy Gundam' that derived from it and its Frame Launcher weapon is pure Sex though.

>>14466971
ATs seem a lot more agile than your standard tank, which is presumably the only reason they exist since there are actual tanks in VOTOMS. It's more feasible that a Standing Tortoise could rotate its body if it needed to look in another direction

>>14467118
Aren't AT's walking bombs because of some sort of fuel or lubricant vital to their design being highly flammable?

Muh Quel was a turd that cost as much as three GMs and broke down at random.

>>14467090
Yeah if nothing else the FA-78-1 spawned some sexy ass machines.

fuck for a flawed machine like it's self even it's sexy.

>>14466971
The Tortoise, if its like the other tanks of the era, should at least have a rotating periscope on the TC's hatch so he doesn't have to stick his head out.

File: MSZ-013-front.jpg (411KB, 1353x1927px) Image search: [Google]

411KB, 1353x1927px

>the original is a clusterfuck of engineering that gets by through sheer power
>let's reduce the power so it's cheap enough to MP
>what do you mean "it's the worst machine you've ever seen"
Seriously, no one thought for one second that taking a mech and removing the one thing it's good at might be a terrible idea?

>>14467127
I don't know, but it would explain why many of them exploded after taking only one or two bullets.

File: Gm-juggler.jpg (39KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 400x400px

It might have been a stupid idea but it was a fucking cool-looking stupid idea

>>14467657
Being in space seems like it minimize its problems with weight, and focusing only on attacking enemies indirectly while in cover with all-range attacks disrupting their operation and killing them from afar without ever presenting a target seems like it would be pretty effective.

Not something you would want to mass-produce but the test model could be pretty handy in a supporting role

File: 193450_49_Garma.jpg (48KB, 247x167px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 247x167px

>>14467681
If the Big Zam had been mass-produced it would have put an end to the Federation in no time!
GARMA ZEON IS BEST ZEON!

>>14466673
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lD5OJd6i1uM
You knew this was coming.

>>14467202

It wasn't not mass produced because it had no redeeming qualities though, it wasn't mass produced because even removing some of the bigger engineering issues like the docking and transformation systems it was still a power intensive unit that was too complex to make it worth while. It's weapons were less powerful and the unit as a whole less power hungry than it's forebear to offset the smaller generator, but it was still deemed too power consuming and difficult to balance to mass produce. It's generator wasn't the problem.

>>14467821
It's sad how autistic he is over the Destiny Gundam.

>>14467940
No, the sad thing is that he can't get to the point because some of his points are actually decent. Things like, hey, how is this a mobility suit when the wings don't move? If the wings don't move, the thrusters don't move, so the suit's ability to maneuver through three-dimensional space, especially under gravity, is kinda shit.

The other issue is that, despite knowing he has a shitload of points, that he doesn't structure them before jumping in.

Oh, and the autism. And the impotent nerd rage. Those are also pretty sad.

File: Hg00-aeu-enact-dc.jpg (184KB, 1500x946px) Image search: [Google]

184KB, 1500x946px

Isn't the whole shtick of the Enact is that it's a worse Flag?

>>14467090
I remember hating playing as the original FAG in Encounters in Space because the extra firepower and armor did not make up enough for the lack of mobility and I'd just get my shit kicked in trying to play it like the normal Gundam

>>14467977
Though its still a perfectly capable mobile suit in terms of merit isn't it? Its not so much there's anything wrong with the Enact as there is the Flag itself being superior.

Isn't it basically an all-around upgrade of the mobile suit they were using before?

>>14468003
>Isn't it basically an all-around upgrade of the mobile suit they were using before?
I actually really liked the aspect of 00 when you see third world countries using previous gen MS of the big three. It was a nice touch that gave the world more depth and a feeling of the current MS being cutting edge

>>14467977
No, it's on par or maybe even a bit better than the Flag considering it's newer. It uses the same sort of transformation as the Flag, so people call it a copy.Then again, the Flag itself copied the transformation from the Enact's predecessor, the Hellion.

>>14468021
Not him but the only time I remember the Enact being demonstrated as a good suit at all was when Ali was using it, and he has enough plot skills/armor to kill main characters with an Anf

>>14468033
That's more a problem of the pilots. Ali was the only decent pilot that used an Enact since they made Patrick a joke.

>>14468033
To be fair losing against a GN Gundam during its initial tech demonstration isn't a slur against its capabilities, its not like they even knew what their mysterious suit could do.

And Ali was a shit, he should have died in S1 instead of hanging around like a bad smell, too many characters were left dangling in S2 before being unceremoniously tossed aside with no real purpose.

>>14467057
Are you fucking high? Stashing ammo in the head is actually one of the safest places to put it. It is harder to hit (only a 12 on a hit location roll) and you have no through-armor crits (so no lucky shots penetrating and popping it like on a torso). If you are taking IS damage to cause the crit roll you are a mere 2 points from death anyways and nearly every head crit slot is basically a kill shot.

>>14468084
Also AC20 is not the deadliest ammo when cooked off. The Humble Machine Gun's ammo explosions are the deadliest. With a massive 200 shots/ton it converts to 400 damage/ton when cooking off, four times that of a ton of AC20 ammo.

File: Aqua GM.jpg (219KB, 451x800px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 451x800px

I love this thing so much but it's a piece of crap. When it's upgraded, the defining new feature is that it is, in fact, waterproof this time around. It's leaky, has bad weapons, and is designed for a theatre of war in which the enemies aren't simply Zaku Mariners, which are probably on par with it, but also Z'goks, Goggs, Acgguys and all their tens of variants. Overall 100% ineffectual. Doesn't stop me from loving it so much, but it's the truth.

>>14468388
>only uses the grapples

File: latest[1].png (479KB, 864x480px) Image search: [Google]

479KB, 864x480px

>GuAIZ with the features from the Freedom and the Justice
>Only runs for 10min

>>14467193
regardless, a periscope will always be the middle man, and the best, albeit most vulnerable way for a tank commander to have situational awareness is by being outside his tank, and not with a limited field-of-view periscope

>>14468591
>beam picks in action: never

>>14468388
Its kind of dumb that the Federation never had any real water-based MS units despite living on Earth with boundless oceans, while Zeon had a million of the things that were even better than their regular ground MS.

What do you think of the Waterproof Gundam by the way?

File: Ferrarigundam.jpg (108KB, 388x553px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 388x553px

>We need to make a super robot to fight in the Gundam Fight, how can we represent Italy?
>Lets base it off a ferrari
Still better than Windmill gundam but still.

>>14467697
>Being in space seems like it minimize its problems with weight

What? Even if an object has zero weight it still has the same mass.

>>14468021
I think the only things that made the Enact better than the Flag were that it had better sensors and could dock with Mobile Armors. Other than that, they were the same.

File: fiat.jpg (378KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

378KB, 1024x768px

>>14470893
Could be worse. They could've based it off Alfa Romeo. Or even worse, Fiats.

>>14470945
>>14468021
Oh, and according to Gundam Wiki, while the Enact has a solar energy receiver so that it can be powered by the AEU's orbital solar panel network, the Flag relies on hydrogen fuel cells. That's the one point where the Enact is more advanced.

>>14467057
If we're gonna talk about real design flaws in BT, how about the fucking Hunchback 50/50 shot of 'you either fly out safely using the eject feature of you hit the ammo rack positioned right above the escape route and get crushed"

>>14471138
Doesn't this mean the Mad Cat/Timberwolf and Catapult have major design flaws since they have huge missile box targets?

>>14470923
Different than when you are trying to stand under gravity and your massive shoulder balls keep making you fall over, compared to floating in Zero-G.

File: 1386258566849.jpg (282KB, 1000x1445px) Image search: [Google]

282KB, 1000x1445px

Obligatory.

>>14471482
Is it somehow the only ms in the zeta era with a 'blind spot'?

>>14471482
>>14471578

It never really made any sense. Don't they all have the same blind spot unless the pilot can see through the bottom of his chair and also his own legs?

>>14471771
>>14471578
It's not a traditional blind spot in the sense that the pilot can't see in that direction (no pilot can unless they stick their head out to look down) but they probably meant that the suit's sensors have a blind spot and won't register incoming projectiles and provide warnings on the HUD or something.

I assume that's the whole reason why Kamille fired (relatively weak) grenades at it rather than something else.

>>14467657
That's more of stop-gap unit than anything else. Which there were a lot of in the OYW.

>>14470800
Not him but
WG is the same shit slightly better. Actually waterproof at the time(!) and equipped with a subsurface beam rifle. The feddies never cared about fighting in the sea simply using their navy for it and otherwise ignoring the oceanic theaters. The net effect was billions of dollars in funding and material from Side 3 being poured into a black hole with almost nothing to show for it and few federal losses where it mattered.

The Aqua GM is hilarious because it's fully indicative of the fed's thoughts about the sea, which turned out to be correct. Zeon's massive water supremacy turned out to be a dead end waste of resources and the feds simply strolled in and seized the units afterwards for free. The Zeeks won the water but it was a worthless prize.

File: Profile_behemoth.jpg (45KB, 578x420px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 578x420px

Can't Kojima do anything original?

>>14471179
No, the Hunchback is a fucking suicide sled and the clanner IIC version is SPECIFICALLY BUILT TO BE ONE. The Timber Wolf has CASE. Catapults are ancient also external shit generally doesn't blow the whole mech up.

The Hunchback is just all around a pile of garbage. The only reason it's used is because you can put more guns than god on it and clan pilots seem to romanticize dying in one.

File: 1457912625478.jpg (25KB, 480x433px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 480x433px

>>14472030
>IIC doesn't even have a fucking neurohelmet
>you have to balance the mech MANUALLY. WITH THE DRIVING STICK.

>>14472026
>tfw it literally died from being shot in the nuts

>>14466971
It wasn't designed for Vietnam though.

>>14472066
Neither was the Turtle.

>>14468084
>>14468130
I said one of the deadliest ammo types to cook off. And while I realize the benefits of putting ammo in the head in the TT I was saying more that its considered suicidal in universe due to the fact that the pilot is pretty much guaranteed to die rather than eject safely.

I mean a lot of BT flawed mechs have weird ejection issues that don't really come up much in the TT outside of longer campaigns

>>14472030
>The Hunchback is just all around a pile of garbage. The only reason it's used is because you can put more guns than god on it and clan pilots seem to romanticize dying in one.

That's not quite right. Living past 30 is basically considered disgraceful to the clans, so once you get past your prime fighting years you jump in the hunchback so that you can be guaranteed a glorious death in battle before age slows you down to the point where you don't get sent into battle anymore.

So the point isn't to get killed in a hunchback specifically, it's get killed period and the hunchback is good at getting its pilot killed.

>>14472677
How does a side manage to continue a war when they intentionally get all their biggest badasses killed instead of having them pass on their skills to the next generation, are their enemies equally retarded?

>>14472677
That's amazingly retarded.
What sort of underage edgelord came up with that?

>>14472716
Its not uncommon for writers of fiction to think like that, such as all those who invent stupid elite special forces groups and explain their being so incredibly badass by devising retardedly 'uber spartan' training regimes where children are taken from their families and then forced to kill each other in the wilderness with the last remaining member of each group of children being taken and harshly trained together in a team before being forced to fight to the death against their fellows again with the last survivor of that fight, who is now a super concentrated jug of combat supremacy, being given a puppy as a reward after becoming attached to the puppy they are then ordered to kill it to complete their training

>>14472693
>>14472716
They have ridiculously superior machines. Their weapons have much greater range and power than the Inner Sphere ones, their armor is strong enough that they're basically invincible except at close range, and their heat sinks are much better so they can spam lasers all day while the IS mechs have to stop regularly to cool down.

Even with all of that on their side, the Clans still get their shit kicked in once the IS gets its act together, and after that the IS starts reverse-engineering their technology. They'd probably have died off completely if they didn't have spies and defectors who had lived in the Inner Sphere teaching them how to have a less shit culture.

>What sort of underage edgelord came up with that?

Michael Stackpole, I guess.

>>14470893
I think it looks badass
Dont see why it belongs here
Aside from having shittt armor from being thin?

>>14472716
Traditional Clan culture is kinda chuuni like that.

That said not everyone is up their own ass in it, the original Clan Wolf was by far the most mellow of the Clans.

>>14472693
They don't, even with far superior tech akin to modern US airforce vs vietnam era, they were still forced into a stalemate and would have been wiped out if some of them hadn't sued for peace.

>>14468021
The Realdo = Hellion and Enact = Flag just parallels how real life weapons of various countries all copied each other in some way and share the same structure.

>>14472741
>tfw awful fighter but great carrier of pathogens
fighting is overrated, I just hang out in trees and come out when everyone is dead
checkmate spartans

>>14472693
Arrogance.
Bureaucratic red tape.
Also a cultural disconnect: when Kerensky and friends fucked off in their mass exodus, they only had so much to survive on. Even when they settled on their new home and officially became the Clans, still only so much to survive on.

Their culture evolved to become one where conflict resolution was essentially a matter of
>declare batchall
>bid the lowest amount of materiel you think you need to bitchslap your opponent
>lowest bid gets to name time, place, and prize
>shit's on like donkey kong
You didn't want to waste excess materiel because that'd just fuck up the rest of civilization when you had so little to go on. The tradition of low-bid bargaining stuck as a reflection of Clan ultra-efficiency.

It's a bureaucratic and honor-dickwaving mentality that was utterly alien to the "ok here's a problem, we need to solve it, let's get shit done" normal thinking patterns that still dominated in the Inner Sphere. Despite being the technologically superior faction, the Clans were done in by the fact they thought the conflict to be a sort of game fought with a strict code of combat, whereas the Inner Sphere was taking advantage of every advantage they could grab to close the gap.

Honestly it's actually really interesting to look at, especially when you get to Tukkayid.

>>14472716
>What are the Zentraedi
The Clanners are practically just miclone zents

>>14472751
>Battle damage Ferrari Gundam is just hail damged

>>14472716
Nicholas Kerensky

>>14467057
Battletech is filled to the brim with faulty designs and I love it for it. More mech universes should do this, it gives each unit it's charm.

>>14472030
>hunchback
>tough medium with only two crits of explody ammo
>suicide sled

I mean, the thing is a fire magnet, but it's not a suicide machine.

>>14474427
still
>>14472037

>>14474430
IIC isn't the normal hunchie.

File: AT-AT_89d0105f.jpg (161KB, 1392x697px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 1392x697px

Obligatory

>>14474498
How were they flawed? They did exactly what they were supposed to do. Be terrifying weapons of terror that made you piss yourself for the three whole hours you watched them slowly approach your base.

>>14467202
Dem's dangerous words round 'ere partner. Dat der's my favorite mobile suit. You take dem' words back now, y'hear?

>>14474557
Not to mention they were much more than just massive tanks, they carry a battalion of storm troopers and speeder bikes into the field, and act as a mobile command center.

File: image.jpg (443KB, 1500x1035px) Image search: [Google]

443KB, 1500x1035px

>already know that there will be weight issues
>still use it on earth
Good thing mwu is a newtype

>>14474557
They had their flaws pointed out by a test pilot who either was executed or demoted for pointing it out. Namely that an airspeeder with a tow cable can trip them.

>>14475086

There were only 2 things on Hoth that threatened them though - Luke's grapple/saber/detonator combo and the airspeeders.

Everything else, the troops, the guns, the turrets, they were all useless. And while you can't really stop Luke, having air support would have made it far harder fot the speeders to harpoon them.

So really, it's a silly weakness that's easily covered with basic planning that the Empire failed to do.

>>14475086
That's not so much a flaw as it is a highly specific anti-ATAT tactic.

You might as well be saying tanks are flawed because it's possible to take out their tracks with certain specific tactics and equipment like anti-tank mines and RPGs.

>>14475117
>>14475114
I don't know, not having anyway of standing back up on it's own power seems kinda a flaw in it's design.

>>14475131
As I recall, it just kind of fell down and blew up afterward. Hard to say whether it could have stood back up, could also say they should have stopped moving and had troopers come out and dislodge the cable.

Ideally it should be able to stand back up, though. But then again, ATSTs burst into flames after being slammed by wooden logs, so whatever.

>>14475148
Actually if I remember right, a snowspeeder strafed it after it fell and that caused it to explode, which makes no fucking sense considering it's shields should've still been up.

>>14474557
You can cut through their legs with a lightsaber. There's literally nothing about them that prevents any half-competent army from destroying them.

>>14477206
You can cut through basically anything with a lightsaber if it doesn't have an energy shield or made out of a couple of specific rare materials that either block or short out lightsabers.

>>14477166
>which makes no fucking sense considering it's shields should've still been up.
You mean the shields added to the AT-AT in Battlefront EA as a game mechanic to keep players from spamming them to death with rapid fire blasters from all sides? Because AT-ATs are basically walking APCs with big guns that can only fire in a frontal arc.

File: Capture.png (396KB, 966x479px) Image search: [Google]

396KB, 966x479px

>>14477222
When I say cut through I mean you can literally slice that leg in half with one swing.

>>14477365
Nope, they always had shields, watch episode 5 again Luke and Rogue squadron strafe them before realizing their lasers can't damage the walkers because of their shields.

>>14477384
Wasn't that just heavy armor? Wookiepedia doesn't mention shields at all, just very blaster resistant armor.

>>14477433
The EU is wrong.

>>14477384
They didn't say shields in the dialogue, did they? There was no shield effect on screen

>>14477384
>>14477454
He specifically says "That armor's too strong for blasters."