Battleships

>>14460454
Not a chance.

>>14460454
If the Ra Cailum can land a shot that goes past the pin-point barrier, maybe.

Good luck even hitting a Quarter though. It has superb mobility.

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Can a princess out sing a galactic diva?

>>14460454
Ra Cailum? No.

Nahel Argama w/ High mega particle cannon, perhaps.

>>14460745

I'm not sure there's anything in Gundam that could outdo a any Marcross ship, since even in SDF Marcross, the SDF-1 has pin point barriers and a fold drive, even if they couldn't figure it out, along with a gun that can shoot at least 1 light second, dozens of smaller fighters and can travel from Pluto to Earth in a few weeks at sub light. The Sumeragi or maybe the Ptolemaois II are about the best chance.

Gundam vs Macross will always be a stupid comparison because it's Human Tech vs Reverse-Engineered Alien Tech. Even the VF-0 and VF-1 use Overtechnology.
Macross wins every time, without fail.

>>14460454
Nope

>>14461474
>Gundam vs Macross will always be a stupid comparison because it's Human Tech vs Reverse-Engineered Alien Tech.

That's a shit argument for two reasons: First, it assumes that alien technology will always be better than the human technology of a given continuity; and secondly it's arguing the point in a sci-fi setting in which all the technologies shown are advanced to begin with.

>>14461609
Yeah, but Macross tech IS universally better than Gundam tech.

>>14461613
Generally that's agreeable, but not always true.

I think Macross Zero would lose to Gundam 00.

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despite the toy-ish color scheme, I really like the diva

>>14460454

No, because Gundam mobilesuits and ships are generally gimped to only be able to operate at what amount to knife-fight distances.

Macross ships, the Quarter included, are extrasolar weapons of galactic war.

Lets boil this down to an example.

The very first time that we ever see the Macross Cannon fire, it fires from the surface of the Earth to destroy a Zentradi scout fleet that has just appeared near the moon. By the time that the human crew knows what is going on (the ship fired automatically because it detected a threat) that alien fleet is already atomized.

With few exceptions, it regularly takes mobile suits and ships multiple days to travel from Luna to Earth.

So a Macross ship can reliably fire at a Gundam vessel from such a range that the Gundam ship would have to spend multiple days burning fuel just to return fire. A timeframe that it is really, really hard to justify them surviving given that the Macross cannon's recharge time is not anywhere near that long.

So the only way that the Gundam ship has even a chance in hell of participating in the fight as something other than a target is if the fight magically starts with them both right on top of each other, hand-waving the entire 'getting into range' problem. At which point the Macross ships still have the advantage of pinpoint barriers, and the ability to space fold out of there to a safe range to regain the safety of distance.

Its really just not a fair fight. Macross ships are generally much larger, carry more fighters for deployment, are faster, have more powerful guns, have longer range guns, better defenses...

If they played it smart, there is a very real chance that a fully functional SDF-1 (by which I mean with a Fold System that doesn't shit itself to death the first time you use it) by itself, could solo the entire One Year War. Both sides. The tech advantage is that large.

>>14460454

Are we just counting the ships themselves, or their loadouts as well?

Because a Ra Cailum has a maximum capacity of 8 mobilesuits.

The Macross Quarter entry claims as its capacity a maximum of 80 units (VF-25F, VF-25G, VF-25S and RVF-25 variable fighters; VB-6 Konig Monster; Queadluun-Rhea; Destroid Cheyenne II).

Mobilesuits would not do very well going against even equal numbers of late generation VFs like the VF-25, outnumbered 10 to 1 it is going to be an absolute bloodbath.

I'm just presuming mooks, by the way. No hero units.

>>14462256
I was pretty disappointed when it ended up as just a White Base copy.

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Could Yamato sink a Macross Quarter?

>>14467027

Yes. It would be a game of rocket tag, though.

The main cannon of either ship would one-hit-kill the other. So it becomes a question of weapon range, charge time, and whether or not either side can dodge an attack made by the other.

>>14467468
A Macross Quarter could just side step the wave motion cannon and punch it with a daedalus attack.

>>14467603

That depends. Does the Wave Motion Gun only deal damage on a direct hit? Or does it do the anime thing like the Macross Cannon where even being NEAR the beam explodes you even if it didn't actually hit you?

My Yamato knowledge is not up to par. If a simple dodge can do it, though, then that puts the Yamato at a disadvantage.

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Is there a ship in existence that could sink the Nadesico?

Can the Quarter sink the Enterprise?

>>14467714
The Nadesico-C

>>14467714

The Star Killer from Star Wars, Vorlon battleships, probably at least some of the later Macross ships like the Quarter and some of the Star Trek ships more than likely. You'll have to remind me though, what does it have again. I recall it being able to Boson Jump, but I don't recall it having anything too special outside that. Yurika made it better than it was from what I recall.

>>14467714
>>14467714
The Soyokaze.

>>14467867

Honestly, Macross vs Star Trek is probably a pretty good matchup. Star Trek and Macross both had different kinds off tech advantages, branching off into different directions of science.

For example, Star Trek has transporters and the holodeck, but their FTL isn't as good as Space Folding and they lack macronization technology.

From what I recall, Star Trek actually technically does have weapons that distort the fabric of space/time, but they are banned by treaty on all sides because using them fucks with warp travel in that region forever after, making it dangerous to use.

So Star Trek has the advantage of being able to just transport dudes over for a boarding action, but the Federation generally sucks at ground war because they never go full-military. They would not be prepared for Zentradi. Transporting a bomb over works too, presuming that they can get a clear transport signal. Which might not work because:

Macross has the advantage of Superdimensional Weaponry. Macross has been distorting, folding, and destroying space itself since day 1 in the form of pinpoint barriers, Space Fold FTL, and Superdimensional weapons. Star Trek shields won't do diddly to protect them from a Superdimensional Weapon (not under normal circumstances, anyway. It would be naive to presume that the Enterprise couldn't jury-rig some kind of superscience protective bubble) but the Macross ship doesn't have to actually land a killing blow to cripple the federation vessel. Messing with the fabric of spacetime like that is going to fall under 'space anomaly' rules for Star Trek, which we already know makes it extremely dangerous to use their Warp drive for travel and tends to mess with transporter functionality as well. So every time the Macross uses a superdimensional technology they shift the battlefield further and further in their favor.

>>14467921
Star Trek would be no match for idol music.

>>14467921

UN Spacey scientists can implement new technologies at a surprising rate, but they haven;t got shit on Federation engineers. The biggest risk when fighting the federation is that they will just science up a victory if you give them enough time.

On the other hand, the UN Spacey has waaaaaaaaay more ships than the Federation ever has had. The Federation considers a couple hundred ships a massive fleet. The Zentradi consider that a scout fleet. Even if the Federation can one-shot ships with their photon torpedos, they simply don't have enough ammo to win in a straight-up fight against a full Zentradi fleet like what attacked Earth during Space War 1.

So yeah, a full on space war between the two would be some seriously interesting space battles with increasingly absurd tech.

The real answer, of course, is that both the NUN and the Federation prefer cultural victory over military victory, so they would hash out a treaty in no time flat. I don't see either side being absorbed into the other, but they would be firm allies.

Macross super dimensional energy weapons have ranges measured in Astronomical Units.

The SDF Macross, from Earth, vaporized a group Zentraedi spaceships in orbit around Jupiter.

UC Gundam energy weapons have pitiful ranges. Even a Colony Laser or Solar System could not reliably destroy something in the distance of the Earth to Moon.

>>14460777
Plenty of mobile suits in gundam could outdo macross ships though
Judau in the ZZ would slaughter a Macross Quarter with his space autism powers

>>14467988
At least you're slaughtering this thread with your autism powers, anon

>>14461690
a lot of macross would lose to 00 considering the broken shit gn drives and the els quanta can pull,hell the 00 raiser is practically a tool for mindbreaking enemies.

>>14467957
The Zentraedi ships destroyed from earth were at the moon, not jupiter
The solar system and colony lasers are quite reliable when psychoframes arent involved

>>14467996
>hell the 00 raiser is practically a tool for mindbreaking enemies.
So is Lynn Minmay

>>14467998
Only against aliens,with other humans there'd be some short confusion until someone like Rau breaks through and tries to kill her

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>>14467998
Only if they're sober.

>>14467996

I think its more accurate to say that Macross units CAN lose to 00 units. This isn't to say that the Macross units are helpless, just that 00 actually meets the tech level needed to reasonably threaten VFs.

Its actually a fight, rather than just a slaughter like it would be against UC.

>>14467996
>hell the 00 raiser is practically a tool for mindbreaking enemies.

If 00 Quanta tries a Quantum Burst in the general vicinity of Basara Nekki, it's pretty much out of the fight from that moment on, because Anima Spiritia is the peg that fits square and round holes. And triangular ones, and most other ones too.

>>14467988

> Plenty

The VF-0 and SV-51 are about the only Macross units that the ZZ Gundam could actually surpass. Maybe. Even a fully laden VF-1 is faster in both speed and acceleration than it even in G-Fortress mode. It would leave it in the dust in MS mode or Full Armor. Even the Enhanced ZZ only barely nudges past the VF-1's fully laden acceleration in G-Fortress and doesn't have nearly the agility or straight speed. If it transforms it's once again much slower. If the VF-1 sheds some weight (fuel) or missiles it's once again slower.

And that's only if Gundam's G unit acceleration is equivalent to Macross' thrust to weight, which it probably isn't since (a) they're a different measurement and (b) looking at the animation Macross units regularly cover more ground in engagements and move faster than any UC unit.

Any Macross ship you care to name has pin point barriers, a fold drive, carries lots of individual variable fighters as standard and can move faster to boot. They're probably at least as agile too. Nothing Jadua could do would negate the sheer tech advantage and at worst all any of them would have to do is tank him while moving out of range and then shoot at him. And even that's unlikely to be necessary.

Even if you get all the way up to the V2, anything past SDF Macross can at least match that and anything past 7 leaves it in the dirt. The Quanta, Devil and Turn-A are perhaps the only units with a chance against a Macross ship and even they're only a maybe.

> Nu Gundan isn't just for show

It's also incapable of using something like the Axis Shock on it's own. Even with the Sazabi in league with it, they have to both want the same thing and have other human willpower in the area concentrating on it.

> The Unicorn could just wave it's hands

And in normal circumstances that'd do nothing, since Banagher had to have Marida talk to him to help make him one with the universe to allow that and it never came across as a normal part of the Unicorn itself.

>>14467996

> the 00 is practically a tool for mind breaking enemies

No, it isn't. All it can do is facilitate communication using GN particles for psychic space moments. Which basically just helps understand. If you're not actually interested in understanding then you'll just shrug and move on, like Ali. It doesn't mind-break enemies at all. It'd allow communication between the sides, but nothing more. Which there'd probably be anyways, what with the singing making it clear they speak a similar language.

>>14468295
Acceleration in G is completely equivalent to thrust to mass ratio, both are just meters per second squared.

>>14468295
>The Unicorn could just wave it's hands
Doesn't that just shut down minovsky related engines?
What good could it do against non-UC or non-Gundam mecha?

>>14468331

My apologies then. The numbers in that case are equivalent, so the VF-0 outdoes anything in the original or Zeta in acceleration, the VF-1 anything up to F91 in acceleration, the YF-19 anything besides the V2, the VF-19 Custom can keep up with the V2 and anything from Frontier or Delta is faster than anything in Gundam.

I don't know where Macross II units fall in that though, though I don't suppose most people would care. Still, when looking at Macross Mecha Manual to see if they listed thrust, it had a 4 mode transformation listed for the VF-2SS, including a Gundroid form and I'm just wondering what that is. I don't recall it at least.

>>14468295
Judau regularly creates forcefields with his mind, amd by the end of the show he doesnt even need exceptional circumstances to do it
Judau can create energy beams kilometres long to cut in half colonies, so cutting a ship like a macross quarter apart wouldnt be a problem, since pinpoint barriers can only cover small parts of the ship
I never said the ZZ was faster than a vf-0, because the thread is titled battleships

>>14468449

> Judau regularly creates forcefields with his mind

So what? The SDF-1 has it's own forcefield too. Having one doesn't give it any advantage.

> Judau can create energy beams kilometres long to cut in half colonies

And the SDF-1 can make a beam a light second long and shoot the Moon from Earth. It's beam is also capable of destroying something like a colony so again, it is at most matching it.

> pin point barriers can only cover small parts of the ship

A) Only on the SDF-1.
B) Any shot he makes would only be kilometers long from the side, which the SDF-1 has always faced. And always managed to tank by taking the shot head on so that it's profile is relatively small, using width, not length.

> the thread is titled battleships

Yes, and the SDF-1 made it from Pluto to Earth in a few weeks. The ZZ hasn't got a hope of matching that speed. Even in combat it's quite agile and can accelerate quickly.

>>14468449
>since pinpoint barriers can only cover small parts of the ship
Actually by Frontier they have total barriers to cover entire ships. Even variable fighters can expand their barriers to cover the entire unit from at least one direction.

>>14467714
A Culture GOU.

>>14468024
from the thumbnail i thought that was Goofy. What the fuck is wrong with me.

>>14468484
> Yes, and the SDF-1 made it from Pluto to Earth in a few weeks.

Months, actually. It took about a year to get from Pluto back to Earth using conventional thrusters, BUT it should be said that a large part of that time was eaten up by Zentradi blockages and making detours to avoid them/lay traps.

And even if you take the whole year, that's still much faster than Gundam could make that trip. It takes about half a year to get from Earth to Jupiter in Gundam, which is roughly 1/8th the distance from Earth to Pluto. So even taking the long way around, and restricted from using space fold tech, the Macross is many times faster than Gundam's ships.

>>14468638

Huh, I thought it was in about 3 months for some reason. I stand corrected then.

>>14468295
>Any Macross ship you care to name has pin point barriers, a fold drive, carries lots of individual variable fighters as standard and can move faster to boot.

And most keep a small army of Destroids to be mobile turrets too.

>>14468449
>since pinpoint barriers can only cover small parts of the ship

By the era of Frontier, Pinpoint Barriers are in no way pinpoint as they instead cover the entirety of a Macross Class. (Whether they be a Quarter or a Battle.)

The only thing they DON'T cover is the Macross Cannon as it is firing, but that's an intentional vulnerability, as the alternative was making it fail to cover any of the ship while firing (an issue with the original). That's kind of a moot point because if they're firing a Macross Cannon at you, it's going to be far enough away that you won't have the ability to respond back.

>>14468638
>And even if you take the whole year, that's still much faster than Gundam could make that trip.

Yeah, Gundam's not exactly a franchise of extrasolar fighting or travel. The only series that really went into that was, what, 00? And that only at the ass end.

>>14467714

Nabisco makes some great cookies.

>>14460454
this thread was made for macross apologists. Crappy sci-fi that only survived the test of time due to the inclusion of... musical interests.

>>14474746
Butthurt Gundamfag.

>>14474746
>this thread was made for macross apologists.

How did you come to that conclusion when the thread title literally just says "Battleships?"

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The Yamato could sink any Gundam ship comfortably.

>>14460454
>Could a Ra Cailum-class sink a Macross Quarter?

No.

>>14467603
You realize the Wave Motion Beam is FTL right?

>>14475081

Not him, but how is that even possible? It's presumably made up of exotic matter or something to say it's matter travels FTL, but I'm just curious if it's explained somewhere? Is that even mentioned/shown in show, or is it side material stuff? If it traveled FTL the shot would basically arrive before they'd even shown it leaving the aperture, which just seems weird.

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>>14475648
What you see doesn't always give you the full picture.

Calculate distance traveled relative to time.

>>14475661
that's a tiny ass planet, or a faaaaat ass beam

>>14475661

That gif doesn't actually make it faster than light, since it depends on what the distance is. Light would travel to the Moon from Earth in just about one second (a little over it). It can travel around the Earth itself 8 times a second if I recall. If the Yamato is at less than 300, 000 km from that planet, and it easily could be, that could be slower than light.

Are you really saying it's FTL just off that one gif?

>>14467930
>UN Spacey scientists can implement new technologies at a surprising rate, but they haven;t got shit on Federation engineers
I dunno man, they science'd up MDE guns, missiles, and created the abomination known as the VF-171EX in a really short amount of time as well when they were pressed to the limit.

>>14462371
>I'm just presuming mooks, by the way. No hero units.
That's another interesting thing about Macross. The hero units aren't much different than the mooks in terms of capabilities. Better engines maybe, and that's about it. Same offensive capabilities.

>>14475756
>If the Yamato is at less than 300, 000 km from that planet
That's not even the Yamato, it's just the same weapon. I'd suggest you watch the series before judging.

>>14476021

The hero exclusive units are what, the YF-19, VF-19 Fire Custom and the YF-29? One of which is worse than the production model (outside maneuverability), one of which has no actual offensive capability and only one of which is better than it's peers. I suppose you could count the VF-11 MAXL and that VF-17 Rey had cutomized, but again, they're notably worse than the normal models offensively.

>>14476038

I watched about 19 episodes several years ago and got bored. I'm not judging, I'm explaining and asking questions out of curiousity because the claim that it's an FTL weapon means strange things. I don't have to see something to question it, nor do I have to watch it if I didn't like it. That shot doesn't seem like it's more than 300, 000 km out though. I mean, it could be, but I doubt it. Which is why I didn't give a definite statement in my post.

>>14476042
The YF-29 was superior to the VF-25, but pretty much on-par with the VF-27 in terms of performance. So even that doesn't work out as better as a mook unit (and yes, there were indeed mook versions of the VF-27. They had a green color scheme).
I gotta say, it's something I really do like about Macross. It doesn't make sense for there to be superpowered custom prototypes. If the technology is available, there's no reason not to make it available to all units, rather than limiting it to specific pilots. Had the war gone on any further, I'm sure they would've cooked up a VF-29.
The only real exception to this is the Sound Force units. They were all custom, but the customization in question was just cramming them full of speakers.

>>14476042
In 7, the grunts are all VF-11s. The hero units are VF-19s, VF-17s, and VF-22s which were reserved for special forces use only.

>>14476086

And even then the speakers were packed at the expense of normal weapons. Rey's VF doesn't have the chest mounted cannons of normal VF-17's, or the ones on the arms. It has more missile bays, but it has less normal guns. And even they're on an emergency thing. Mylene's VF-11 MAXL is the same. Basara's Fire Custom probably has more missile bay's too, but he doesn't use them When he found out it still packed missiles he had them removed.

>>14476140

I thought VF-17's were grunt units too and that Gamlin piloted one as a symbol of his status at the start of the show, with Diamond and Emerald force getting better units later on because of it?

>>14476086
>If the technology is available, there's no reason not to make it available to all units,
Well, sometimes its just not worth it to put those tech in the machine.
The BDI tech of the YF-21 was unreliable, the YF-29 is most probably stupidly expensive, the 19 was expensive.

The available-to-all-units part tend to refer to general equipment. Most gunpods and missiles can probably be used by any VF easily, reaction/MDE missiles can be mounted on any VF, fold boosters can be used easily, etc.

>>14476172

> the 19 was expensive

It was also unflyable, at least in it's original form and by normal pilots. Which is why the production models mostly changed the airframe and wing configuration to make it easier at the expense of maneuvarability. The NUG was nervous about it because it penetrated the Earth Defense net apparently, though the 19 itself had nothing to do with it and it was really down to Sharon, not the 19, Isamu or even Jan Neumann. It's expense had little to do with it at the end of the day.

>>14476167
They were were all special, the VF-19 was just newer and better suited for dogfighting. VF-1 was only used by Diamond force and Emerald force at the start, everyone else was in VF-11s.

>>14476167
17s were always spec ops fighters. It's the 171s from Frontier and later that were grunts.

It's been a while since I saw M7, but I think Diamond Force keeps their 17s throughout, and Emerald's always in VF-19s. Gamlin does get a 22 in Dynamite 7, but I'm not sure he's technically with Diamond Force at that point.

>>14476200
>It's expense had little to do with it at the end of the day.

VF-171's are explicitly stated as being so common because they are cheap

>>14476349

Yes, and that was specifically after they'd already decided not to adopt the VF-19 for those specific reasons, not before.

>>14462256
>>14462448
I fucking know, right?

Myself, I was hoping we'd see a Gundam ship that'd transform into a gigantic fucking MS, but nope, we get a knockoff White Base mode.

>>14479728

That was never going to happen because AGE was still a Gundam show, and outside dome silly suits in the first generation generally took itself too seriously to do something like that regardless of it's franchise. Macross gets away with it, since it's all about transformations and has had them in battleships since like, episode 2 of the first series. Gundam has never had them and would probably only use them in a more comic show like Build Fighters because of how out of the norm they'd be.

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>>14475756
>>14476038
>>14476051
Here's a webm to settle this debate. Bear in mind this occurs during a transition between episodes, so the time spent firing may not accurately reflect the speed. Misaki also highlights that no enemies were detected within a radius of 50 light seconds of the Yamato.

I'll leave it up to you nerds to decide whether or not it's FTL.

>>14480667
>so the time spent firing may not accurately reflect the speed
and by this, I mean the actual time it takes for the beam to hit the planet is shorter than the webm might suggest.

>>14480667

With the way it's set up there its hard to say whether it's faster than light or not, because there's clearly cuts for dramatic purposes and the shot itself could have taken more or less time to hit than shown.

As shown, it travels faster than light though, since it takes 30 seconds (maybe a bit less) to travel at least 50light seconds. I wouldn't be counting on that as proof though, simply because of the way dramatic cuts work. Otherwise Wing would be able to travel at a good fraction of light speed too, since there's a bit where Lady Une uses it to reach space in a few seconds from a standing start on Earth.

I would see what fluff says on the matter if no one comments on its firing speed in the show.

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>>14480696
>50light seconds
Just to make this extra clear.

>>14480667
That is 100% FTL.

>>14485043

> it's still emitting light that's keeping up with it
> we can see it's leading edge

That is 100% not FTL.

>>14485107
That's all part of the effect. If the Yamato is 50 light seconds away and it gets there in less than 40, it's clearly FTL.

>>14485494

Part of the dramatic effect you mean? Like cuts for character reactions and episode flow? Surely you jest. No, it's obviously meant to be taken completely straight, and if we can see it traveling because of light and see its leading edge the whole way then it must be slower than light.

>>14485774
How are you this badly in denial? 50 light seconds away from any enemy and it reaches the target in far less time. This is 100% conclusive, and you're a really desperate idiot for trying to deny it.

>>14488928

How are you this bad at drama? I'm not even gonna be sarcastic anymore. It's cut liberally to show reactions and could easily be cut to make it look faster so the whole scene flows better. It being less than 50 seconds when cut that much isn't proof, and validation of its firing mechanism via character acknowledgment or external sources like books would be needed to confirm it is FTL because of it.

The fact you can follow it at all says it would not be FTL, because if it was your eye wouldn't be able to see the leading edge and the planet would just explode 20 seconds before the beam reached it. That's how light works. Anime isn't required to follow such physics though. It's also not required to give a real time stream of its events though, so declaring a highly cut piece of drama unedited for time with no validation is silly.

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>>14488956
>all this severe denial over being proven wrong
>digging this deep
You're a genuine idiot, friend.

>>14488962

> It breaks physics in one way
> No, it could never be breaking physics in any other way! Everything it shows is totally real!

Right back at you, friend.

>>14488974
You can twist it to suit your agenda all you like, the fact is it traveled over 50 light seconds in less than 40 seconds. You're a complete idiot for desperately trying to deny this.

It's glaringly apparent you're one of those autists that hates being proven wrong and will use the most farcical reasoning to try and win an argument.

>>14488985

You can twist it to suit your agenda all you like, the fact is light was visible every second of its journey we saw, but we didn't see all of it. You're a complete idiot for desperately trying to deny this.

It's glaringly apparent you're one of those autists that hates being proven wrong and will use the most farcical reasoning to try and win an argument.

>>14488991
Well that settles it then, no point continuing to post here when you've lost so emphatically.

>>14488985
>>14488991
you're both turbo faggots

Why do people keep trying to compare Gundam with Macross?

They're not even close to being in the same scale.

>>14489063

Because people who know very little about both shows consider them to be similar, because they are long running mecha franchises about military robots in space. They just see some visual similarities and decide they must be comparable.

They obviously don't know enough to understand that comparing Gundam units to Macross units is like comparing a WW2 Sherman Tank to a modern Abrams. They are both tanks, and they might look similar to someone who doesn't know the difference, but the technology gap is massive.

>>14475081
It hits before it's even fired?

>>14489410
Do you assume light speed just means instantaneous?

Do you know what a light second is, son?

>>14489416
Fine, let me be more specific.

"It hits before it's percieved to have fired".

>>14489063

Same reasons why people compare Star Wars to Star Trek, Batman to Superman, Mario to Sonic, etc.

>>14480667
>no enemies were detected within a radius of 50 light seconds of the Yamato.
The RVF-25's radar has a maximum range of 1 light day.
The Quarter probably has a similar range on its radar, though we have no information on that.