Macross Elysion

>>14377466
it's apparently about 800m, twice the size of a macross quarter class ship

The macross was huge as shit, and able to comfortable hold a crew + 200,000 refugees or so. That doesn't seem that off scale unless I'm miss remembering something.

>>14377478
>>
Yeah, the SDF-1 was enormous at 1200m but the Island-class ship that comes attached to the New Macross-class (which clocks in at about 1600m) is a whopping 13km.

The dome on Ragna looks like that same Island class and if it is then it seems like it's out of scale with the Elysion...

>>14377552
Scratch that. Apparently all of those Islands are not the same size >.<

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>>14377552
The new island looks far smaller, just compare it to the size of the buildings inside.

Dome-type colony ships aren't limited to the two New Macross-type ships we've seen in the series to date. Remember. Macross 5 had 3 dome-type ships but only one actual Battle-class battleship. It's probable that the one we see on Ragna is a subsidiary colony ship, not the main one, and that's why Elysion is so small.

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>>14377556
Island One of Frontier was huge, more than twice the size of Macross 7 plus all the smaller islands being towed behind it. however the New Macross class ships are all around 1600m or about 1 mile long.

>>14377466
Wasn't there some detail about the Elysion being made from out-of-scale partial older Macross designs? Legs from Battle 7, torso from something else, shoulders from the tiny Quarter etc? Was that ever confirmed?

>>14377477
So its... a Macross Half?

>>14377593
Apparently there was a Newtype article about upcoming episodes back when episode 08 came out, and Elysion was confirmed to be about midway between Quarter- and Battle-class Macross.

Then again, it was all in Japanese so we can't actually confirm it, and nobody translated it so we don't know what was really said in the article.

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>>14378066

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>>14378081
I believe I translated the relevant passage some thread ago.
>It's size is somewhere between a quarter and the first Macross ship. It's about as tall as Dubai Tower (Burj Khalifa=828m). The height of the carriers is similiar to that of the viewing platform [of dubai tower, presumably]

>>14378558

So a Quarter us around 414 meters? That seems pretty small. There are real aircraft carriers nearly that long on their own,and a quarter has carriers just for it's arms.

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>>14378565
Quarter is about 472 meters in length as a ship, 312 meter tall in robot form. Only one arm is a flight deck, and is more like a big shield, nearly as tall as it is.

SDF-1 is about 1200 in length and about the same in height when robot.

New Macross class is 1600 length and about 1200 tall transformed

>>14378565
>Warship (cruiser) Mode: overall, length 472 meters; width 178 meters; height 96 meters
>Storm Attack (battle) Mode: overall, height 316 meters; width 164 meters; length 79.2 meters
>Carrier ARMD-L: overall, length 254 meters
>Gunship ARMD-R: overall, length 227 meters
Well, the smaller size makes it mobile as fuck.

>>14378558
J= Domain support fighter
C= Tactical Support fighter
F=Domain Control fighter
E=Recon and electronic warfare
S=Commander

>>14378581

So Hayate and Mirage are now in the domain control and support fighters? More support for the idea that they're supposed to end up wingmen I guess. Beyond the E type having the radom do we have any idea what the differences in the types are? I'd assume the F type at least is faster or something.

>>14378597
I get the impression that F does most of the work and J and C are to support it. This may be more evident with their super packs in that space episode.

>>14378601
Or maybe J and C are to defend the Walkures/carrier.

So from smallest to largest:
Quarter -> Elysion -> SDF-1 -> SDF-2/SDFN -> NMC Battle Class -> Macross Cannon

>>14378601

I don't think it's really a feeling when the designations have the word support in them, and one of them is literally designated the F types support craft in every way.

>>14378639
>Macross Cannon

Delete this

>How not to crop

>>14378639
>Macross Cannon
What

>>14378639
>Macross Cannon
>Implying Macross II is canon

I guess this is slightly unrelated, but aren't Protoculture ships supposed to look like, y'know, the original Macross? The Windamereans' new fuckoff battleship is neat and all, but I thought we had an established Protoculture crashed battleship aesthetic.

>>14378717
But the Macross was supervision army, and looked way different before the UN rebuilt it.

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>>14378645
>>14378696
>>14378700
>Macross Cannon

>>14378722
You know, I can accept the divergence of II. I really can.

I just can't accept the fact that they'd make this YUGE Macross for the sake of firepower.

>>14378717
Not really, it was originally used by "giant aliens" meaning Zentradi and since it took a long enough time they must have change quite a lot to suit them. Protoculture design is all over the place since they were always trying new and inventive ways to fuck up in their eternal quest of trying to create something as cool as the Vajra

>>14378722
Man, I just love this thing, it just screams that it wasn't made for peace at all

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>>14378717
You shouldn't try to make too much sense of proculture designs, they are usually biotech that uses a single being to work their gimmick and it usually backfires horribly

>>14378717
I think the Sigur Valens(And everything with the Windies) is the Protoculture's Vajra-boner taken too far.

A lot of the Winderemerean stuff has some common points with the Vajra.
Sigur Valens has a very organic look to it, it has a fold reactor(Until this appeared, the only things that are confirmed to have a fold reactor are Vajra ships), and it used dimensional faults as a barrier(Similarly, the last thing that used dimensional faults is the Vajra Queen).

>>14378735
I wonder if the OG Vajra were creeped out by the Protoculture obssession with them

>Look we made this doomsday robot in your likeness
>Sure

>>14378727
>Man, I just love this thing, it just screams that it wasn't made for peace at all

Peace through superior firepower.

>>14378745
>Look we made this doomsday robot in your likeness
>Fuck off before we blast your ship into smithereens

>Look we made this cool spaceship with the same abilities as you! Look at the energy converting armor, the beam cannons, the fold drive and everything
>How many times must we murder you before you fucking get out of our turf?

>>14378724
But who doesn't like big ships?

>>14378761
It looks like trash though

>>14378761
I'm a DDG/CVN kinda guy, I guess.

>still no launch sequence webm
you disappoint me /m/

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>>14378841

>>14378986
DECULTURE

>>14378994

> Let's show them some Yak Deculture

Fuck yeah Ernest!

>>14378986
bigger?

>>14378727
Agreed, it's the goddamn Judgment class for crying out loud. This and crazy shit like Solomon Express get me hard.

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Please don't let new Chaos qt die early

>>14378986
>webm for ants
>not including the glorious smoke plumes

>>14377477
Does that make it a halfcross

>>14382768
Micross?

>>14382768
No.

It makes it a Macross Half

Next one should be 5 macross ships even smaller than quarter that form a big one - 5 Ship Combination Gocross!

>>14382786
>Not Super Dimensional Fortress Gocross

>>14382786
Both new battle type macrosses and macross quarters are made of sepperate ships. As is the Elysion (at least 3) at that

none of those are individual macrosses themselves

>yfw Macross Attack next week

Macross 2/3

>>14380953
MInd_Broken

>>14377593
Not exactly. There was pretty hot discussion here about Elysion, as it didn't matched any previously shown Macross ships. As you anon said, some parts looks like taken from Battle Seven, Frontier Battle ship, while torso with it's turret is upscaled Quarter. Then there was issue of size - consensus few week ago was that it is too big for Quarter subclass - as for particular class, it actually looks similiar to Global Macross class, last animated in Frontier, as Vajra nest. Now, after new information surfaced, some of anons sugested that it might be budget/monkey model/cheaper model of Macross for use in low threat enviroment - that would explain lack of dedicated gunship subship.
>>14378574
Batlle class is battlestar in design, combining battleship and a carrier. Quarter is assault carrier as russians are making them, with lots of guns.
Elysion seems to be dedicated carrier, considering it's size, something like british Ark Royal? Smaller, more versatile, cheaper?
>>14378639
http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossf/macross-global.htm
>>14378722
It actually is a very logical design - just upscalled, uparmored Macross with MORE GUNSHIPS! for firepower. Makes sense.
>>14378717
Yes and no. Original Macross or 7 confirmed that there were more gunships like one that fallen on to Earth, by showing that twisted wreck. Then we got all Zentradi tech, that is distinctly more organic looking than SDF-1. And then came 7 and bioweapon made by protoculture shows up. with Zero it was shown that there was distinctive shift in engineering philosophy at end of their reign and Frontier confirmed what >>14378735 said with Protoculture's space bugs boner.
Few generals ago some anon corrected me on little detail that SDF might be obsolete by the time it has fallen on Earth already. This, combined with fact that there is no technology more superior than Macross and everything more powerful is biotech could kinda explain Windermere new toy's look.

>>14378761
Battle Class is already too big. Oh sure, that punch right into Galaxy's bridge was sweet but so far it is Quarter that leaves impression as most lethal of them all. Sure, Battle has more raw firepower but as Frontier movies had shown, battleships are already obsolete back then. Windermere assault on Al Shahal fleet in first Delta confirm that. Elysion might be reflection of new design philosophy of NUNS - make flagship smaller, more agile, pack as many or more valks on board and let them carry defense/offense.
Still, Elysion is heavily armed with secondary and AA weaponry - those turrets in front of the bridge when used by Quarter were pretty effective against similarly sized Vajra.
>>14378766
Why? They needed more guns. So they added more guns in logical fashion.
Sure it is not a slick design but again, same can be said of Battle class from 7.

The Elysion definitely has the potential to turn out to be the most lethal Macross ship we've seen in the franchise to date.

It's secondary armament is definitely the biggest we've seen on *any* Macross-type ship - 23 of the classic UN Spacy beam turrets (that I can prove exist, at least); and 12 more that appear to be bigger versions of the ones that were fitted to the Quarter in the Frontier movies. Those turrets were essentially miniature Macross cannons in their own right, and the Elysions are not just bigger, it has more of them.

Finally the ship probably still has potentially three full-size Macross Cannon type weapons - it might be the classic backpack version of the original Macross; it might be hiding a Battle Frontier-type gun in each carrier; or it might actually turn out to have *both* options.

Also, my considered estimate based on how wide the hangar is (wide enough for three VF-31As with spread wings) and how long the ship is (400 meters plus), the Aether alone could have a hangar big enough for 45 fighters in full ready-to-launch configuration as seen in the hangar shot (basically we're seeing only about a hundred meters worth of hangar, there's room in the ship for three hundred), or about twice as many if stored in a more optimized manner (wings folded, alternating directions, close together - all the stuff they weren't doing in the interior shot we did get).

(If the Aether really is the 900 meters we scaled it as originally, there could easily be room for a three hundred fighters in each carrier, if organized properly. Or at least 150, if they're all parked like in the hangar shot from ep 12.)

>>14386114

Oh, forgot to give something to compare with - the Battle Frontier has 12 twin and 4 triple versions of the classic beam turrets; the Macross itself had eight twins; and the ARMD-01 (TV version) had 5. Macross Quarter has ten of either those or (in the movie) the ones the mini Macross Cannons.

>>14380953
Wait, Canaria had a son.
>>14382780
Assault Mac?
>>14382786
Semi Bahamut Class?
>>14386121
>mini Macross Cannons
I think Satelight reused Quarter's turret and upscaled them. They have same shape of twin tuning fork barrel.

>>14378066
Double Quarter pounder

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>>14386171
>I think Satelight reused Quarter's turret and upscaled them. They have same shape of twin tuning fork barrel.

Same shape, and probably same function, yes. But the exterior of the actual guns have been redesigned. I couldn't find a bigger pic of the movie-style turrets (and I'm too lazy to screencap one), but you can see how the barrels have exposed coils along their full lengths. The Elysion's turrets don't have those exposed coils, they've been enclosed - most likely to save *massively* on time while working on the ships in 3D, because the movie turrets probably have more polygons than the rest of the ship mesh...

So...is there still a fleet protecting Ragna?

Will the Elysion engage the NUNS fleet in Alshahal's orbit?

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According to Japanese Wikipedia, the Macross Elysion is about as tall as the Burj Khalifa building -- 830m -- and it's sticking-out arm-ships are at a height of about 450m.

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Think we'll get to see any more of this sexy beast?

>>14378724

They had surplus of Zentran ships after Space War One, might as well string a fleet of them together as a single Macross

>>14386539
The article snippet above quotes Kawamori saying the ships are at the height of the observatory of the tower. Wiki says that's at 550 rather. Which makes more sense, 430 is a waaay to far down

>>14386642

Is that variable?

>>14386699
of course it is.

>>14386435
Yes, Elysion is the main ship heading to Al Shahal, because their pilots have heard the Walkure's music, the longest. And are possibly, not as susceptible to the Vars Syndrome.

>>14378722
okay so someone clearly edited a Macross Cannon to fit into Robotech, now I'm curious who and where?

>>14386943

It's from a Sonic The Hedgehog crossover thing called Mobius Chronicle. http://zeiram0034.deviantart.com/gallery/8148455/Mobius-Chronicle

Ware the furry art in between the traced Macross stuff.

>>14385933
That ship found on a planet in frontier is the SDFN-04 Global. This 'macross' class design is based on the pre-refit SDF-2. There were only 19 ship made in this class. They were basically meant to protect the first dozen colonization ships and survey ships.

>>14387114

It was twelve, not 19, according to Macross Mecha Manual (who are translating the official stuff from Macross Chronicle); the first one was called "SDFN-01 Hayase" after Misa's dad, the fourth one was called "SDFN-04 Global" after our man Bruno, and the eighth one (which shows up in Macross 30) was called "SDFN-08 Wrlithwai" after our favorite Zentraedi commander (who, like the other two, was supreme commander of the UN Spacy for a while.)

Official specs for them claim that they're all the same size as the SDF-1, rather than the SDF-2 (which was 1600 meters instead of 1200, and only exists as line art of the ship mode.)

>>14380953
Her and that other guy are going to be important right? They have more unique designs and talked a lot in the episode.

Also, subs when?

>>14387162

They could be the new squad pilots given Hayate apparently becomes a squad leader soon and there's two new keyrings of unknown characters coming or something if I recall.

>>14387146
>
>>14387114
Ah. Thank you.

>>14387162
we are getting two new characters with merchandise

and what's this subs joke

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>>14386699
It is called the Sv-154.

>>14387394

Hah, someone on a different forum was going on about how it was totes based on the F-5 Freedom Fighter and not the F-104. "Which bits are from the F-5?" we asked him. "The wings and the fuel pod things". "What about the intakes, the T-tail, the angle of the wings, and the fact that the F-104 also had the fuel pod things?" "Not important, all of those are common to other aircraft too, not just the F-104. I still can't see it."

And here it's black on...whatever, it's based on the F-104. Not that I suppose he'll change his mind even with this.

>>14387169

Hayate gets his own squadron?! NICE.

>>14387086
>sonic with robotech
I can still hear them laughing

>>14382786
>10000 VFs,Destroids ant etc combining to form a macross

>>14387724
Really? It looks like someone took F-5 and 104 and played with them a bit.
Wing position and overall proportions scream F-5, stabilisers are indeed very F-104, and area around wing roots actually reminds me of A-4 and it's camelback.

>>14389106

Wing position screams F-5? *HOW?* The F-5 and A-4 are flat-bottomed low-wing aircraft, and you can see in the original pictures of the Sv-154 that the bottom of it is anything but flat. It has an oval or eliptic cross section with mid-mounted wings that have a pronounced anhedral (downward angle), just like the F-104. And the new picture we got of it in this week's episode - from dead ahead of the plane - basically cements these fact beyond reasonable doubt. Even the die-hards in that forum thread rolled over due to that pic, rather than the article when I posted it.

The two features it does have in common with the F-5 that it doesn't with the F-104 is the long nose, which is part of the "modern fighter" aesthetic and used on basically all the variable fighters; and the tightly spaced engines at the tail, which are due to the plane being a VF and *needing* two engines.

http://deus-ex-kamille.tumblr.com/post/146314097426/freyjas-gonna-sing-do-you-remember-love-im

Video preview of Freyja's VA singing "Do You Remember Love". Nothing to say whether it's just for the CDs or if it's in the show though.

>>14387394
>SV-154 Alfa Romeo

Wut

since this consider as Macross Delta thread, how many episode would it be, 10+ or like Frontier, 20+ episode long or something?

>>14389762

It's 26.

>>14389562
it was for her audition. The footage is from last year.

>>14390905

That explains it I guess. Oh well

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>>14389106
>Wing position and overall proportions scream F-5
Naw, its definitely 100% Starfighter.

>>14389780
wait, you mean i have to watch Macross Delta in 26 episodes length, which filled with MUH WINDS shit?

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>>14391848

If we're lucky, both sides will have bigger problems shortly. :)

Anyway, is there a /m/aniac out there who can do me a big favor? I need some pictures of the underside of the carrier from the Macross Quarter toy, as I'm trying to work out how much space there is inside it for an actual hangar. So far it's not looking very promising, someone did some scaling for a doujin factbook and figured out that the front end is only big enough for thirteen VF-25s, and from the blurry pictures I've seen of the back end of the ship, it doesn't look like the "large" hangar from the doujin image is even part of the ship, it looks like it's part of the arm instead. Pic related.

Oh, and if anyone should happen to have the doujin book this comes from, or any of the others in the series, scans would be very, very much appreciated, as they appear to be rather difficult to get. Pic related is a thumbnail preview from the doujin circle's website...

>>14391872
Is it this?
http://www.toranoana.jp/mailorder/article/04/0030/36/38/040030363800.html

>>14391872
We do see the hanger in SnT packed full of planes, it really doesn't fit many.

>>14391886
>http://www.toranoana.jp/mailorder/article/04/0030/36/38/040030363800.html

Yes, that's the one. Not sure how to order from that site so it actually shows up where I live, and no idea what kid of postage they'd charge, so I'm leery of trying to order it...

>>14391984

Yes, I know - but the official specs from Macross Chronicle (and thus the people who make the Macross Mecha Manual and a few other sites) say it carries 80 mecha... somehow.

That only works if "Superdimensional Technology" has included the ability to make ships bigger on the inside since day one without anyone noticing. Which would explain how some of the stuff that was in the Macross - which is all of 1,200 meters long, and no component of which is more than 500 meters long and maybe 150 wide on the *outside*.

>>14392082
I ordered it because I'm a nice guy.

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>>14391872
How's this anon?

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>>14392311
There really isn't much under it.

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>>14392327
Last one to get an idea how it looks like underneath.

>>14387724
i argued the same thing here and some jackass just insulted me , WHO´s RIGHT NOW ,YOU IMBECILE!!!!!

>>14392168

Many thanks! Hope you actually enjoy the thing as well. :)

>>14392311
>>14392327
>>14392345

Perfect! Internal space, what's that? Can you eat it? Does it taste good?

>>14392349

IK, R?

>>14392345

Just one more question - the only thing on that ship that looks like it could be a star drive is the hole in the center on the underside in front of the "handle". Does anyone else think it looks like an engine, or is that a hangar exit?

>>14387394
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/aircavalry/lv-7.htm

>>14394553

> picture clearly has two swords
> armaments: one sword

>>14389330
>*needing* two engines
Why not do it like VF-22 did, and pack one engine into a backpack?
A-4 because somehow I remembered it with a 'hump' behind cockpit, F-5, just as you anon wrote, long nose and non-streamlined canopy - exhaust nozzle actually looks like X-29's with that 3d thrust vectoring.
As for wings, no defense. Finals got to me.

>>14395970

The VF-22 still had two engines in the feet. They were auxiliary and worked with the backpack one without being necessary for flight, but they were still there.

>>14395984

Oh, as for why the feet ones are necessary, it's because Gerwalk mode would be almost worthless if they weren't there and even Battroid mode would lose a lot of it's manoeuvrability. If you take out the twin exhaust feet you might as well just have a plane and not a VF.

Bandai posted this on their website to hype the release of the VF-31J kit:

http://bandai-hobby.net/site/character_macrossd/72_vf31j_spec01.pdf

The nice thing is that the text is selectable so you can stick it into google translate and get something at least semi-readable.

The most interesting parts aside from the tech specs and the names and designations for the weapons is confirmation that the Siegfrieds are literally Delta Squad custom machines modified specifically to support Walkure in Var suppression, which is why they have the forward swept wings (increased low-speed maneuverability), the fold quartz inserts (to boost the range of Walkure's songs), and the drone launchers and drone rechargers.

Sketchley also posted a translated interview from March or April with Kawamori that explains that the Siegfrieds have mainly short-ranged weapons like the arm guns and knives since they don't want to kill Var sufferers that can be turned back to normal, whereas the Kairos (VF-31A and B) are military spec machines with more conventional weapons. Both of them are still in operational testing (by Chaos), and Delta are basically being used to drum up interest for future sales of the finished machines.

>>14396186
So would Kairos' have still have the arm gunpods, or would they use conventional gunpods?

>>14396011
>>14395984
Sure, but 'main' powerplant can be singular in this configuration. Pretty much like F-35/Yak-38, leg engines being used exclusively in gearwalk/battroid, backup/manoeuvring thrusters. Should allow for lighter machine as well.

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>>14396270
Yep.

>>14396270

Alpha Squad has them on their VF-31As in episode 6 (the only time we see VF-31As actually fighting), but I think they're kind of like the hip/wing glove guns on the VF-25 that can be different variants depending on the mission. Alpha Squad's beam gun pods are also painted in a dark color scheme like traditional gunpods, rather than white like Delta Squad's.

>>14396302

> like F-35/Yak-38 leg engines being used exclusively in gearwalk/battroid, backup/manoeuvering thrusters

The legs will still have an engine each on them though - it'll just have a third engine on the back. Which would make it heavier, not lighter. The YF-22 was heavier than the YF-19 by almost a tonne, presumably for a similar reason.

You cannot have a single engine variable fighter, for the simple reason that even if the leg engines aren't the main engine, you still have two legs and putting an engine in only one of them is idiotic.

>>14394617
>What is a sheath

>>14396186
The kit keeps the waist rotation, and the hands swivel up to hide under the wingroot. How cool. But why are they releasing the Drakens in August? The show will have finished by then.

>>14396431

A sheath normally doesn't have a handle and pommel like what he's holding.

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>>14396397
If combination of main engines carried on the fuselage worked for Y/VF-22 with legs only equipped with smaller engines, there is no reason why one big + two smaller ones won't work.
There is fan made Viper/Falcon valk, whose author actually detailed transformation and three forms.
>YF-22 was heavier
As are Yakovlev design when compared to Harrier. And yet Vtol variant of Lightning is using similiar configuration.
Hell, if this would be a dedicated short range/ atmo fighter, legs can dispense with termonuclear engines altogether - turbofans in articulated wings, sv-51 wings mated with SHIELD quinjet.

>>14396721
>If combination of main engines carried on the fuselage worked for Y/VF-22 with legs only equipped with smaller engines, there is no reason why one big + two smaller ones won't work.
I'd imagine its more to do with the practicality of such a set-up.

The VF-22 set-up, it works, but looking at it from maintenance point of view, its 3 engines to maintain(and feed propellant to), even if 2 of them are smaller ones.

There's also the fact that they do give old VFs new engines(Like for the 171EX, which got VF-19 engines), swapping over to a different propulsion style means that people that wants to upgrade their old VFs can't upgrade with minimal modifications.
Depending on how different the engines are designed, the work needed to get new engines into old VF could be like buying 2 of the big engines and modifying them to fit into the airframe, or you might as well just start developing new engines on your own because the new ones doesn't even have the same shape.

I checked Macross Mecha Manual.

It says this about the propulsion of the YF-21.
>Power Plant: two Shinnakasu Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2450B thermonuclear engines
>While most VFs have traditionally situated the main engines within the legs of the Battroid, the YF-21 arranged the engine block in the main body with independent legs.

>>14396844
The 21/22 has two engines only, the legs are simple thrusters like the other maneuvering jets.

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Dengeki Hobby teasing the BD set.

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Or the DVD set if that's your bag.

>>14396721

> If combination of main engines carried on the fuselage worked for Y/VF-22 with legs only equipped with smaller engines, there is no reason why one big + two smaller ones won't work.

> If it worked on the Y/VF-22 then there's no reason it can't work on others

That's what you're saying as far as I can tell, yes? Well of course it can work. It will have the smaller engines or thrusters on the feet though, because not having them cripples the unit and makes the Gerwalk form worthless and Battroid form much less useful.

> legs can dispense with termonuclear engines altogether

This wouldn't work though, not even on a short range fighter - because you might as well just have a jet if you're only going to have one engine and nothing in the legs. The turbofans won't be maneuverable or able to rotate and help the unit maneuver in any form and will be shelved and folded in in battroid.

The original point was that the tail needed to be tightly spaced so that it could have two engines. Which is true, but it's also so it can have two stable legs that can support it. Whether they have engines, thrusters or nothing is less important than them being there at all. And since they're there, they're going to have at least thrusters to help maneuver because you cripple the unit by not doing so.

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DAT

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BOX

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ART.

>>14397204

You mean

> dat hair

Jesus Mikumo, you'll take someone's eye out with that.

>>14397204
Turn it down Mikumo, turn it fucking down

>>14397192
Again, the 22 doesn't have engines in the legs at all, why is one engine in the backpack a problem instead of two?

>>14397278

Again t does have thrusters in the legs. Thrusters that double as the feet same as any other unit. A VF can theoretically have only one engine up top, but it can't not have something in the legs because it'll be worthless if it does. Even if that something is thrusters and not a true engine.

>>14396882

The legs are likely operating like the 'cold' nozzles on a harrier, bleed air from the LP turbine.

>>14397204

Kaname's like...get that hair outta my face.

>>14397332

Her hair looks like it's about to take off. Kind of reminds me of Tenchi's cabbit space ship form actually.

>>14396454

The show doesn't end until September - which, coincidentally, was the month in which we got the first 1/72 Frontier kit. That's right, last time around, the kits didn't start coming out until the show was ending, and they weren't on a monthly release schedule either, but spaced two to three months apart.

Alto's VF came out in September 2008, Ozma's in November, Super parts, Super Alto and Luca in February 2009, Super Ozma and Michael in March, Armored Alto and Armored Ozma in June, Brera in November, CF Lucifer in February 2010, and the Tornado Alto in October. Basically, the last non-movie kit came out nearly two years after the show started...

>>14397408 Cont.

Be grateful we're getting kits once a month, and before the show is even halfway done for once. Also be very very grateful that Bandai doesn't have an exclusive four year license this time, so that we can get kits from other manufacturers while we still remember what the show was about....

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>>14397284
It have to have nozzles or something that can act as one. Valk in A stance is reversed pendulum, if you move thrust points above center of gravity, you get to work with much more stable system.
Unstability of valks in gearwalk is one of the main reasons why nobody made a RC model of one so far.

SV-51 used ducted fans to suplement it's movement in gearwalk/battloid modes, thou those were situated more or less where rocket backpack was on VF-1.
Then again, SV-51 comes with articulated wings, which allow for bird like movement.
Now, sure, using feet nozzles will be more efficient if they are close, really close to the ground for ground effect to kick in. Bigger diameter fans on articulated mounts, like Avatar gunships or quinjets, would work just as well, at least in atmosphere, while being safer for environment. Not to mention quieter.

>>14397356
She really does reminds me of Ryo-Ohki as well.
Well. Damn.

>>14397525
Does that guy have no legs?

>>14397525
Now, there is actually a little elephant in this room - do you really want to have dynamically stable space fighter.
But maybe for civilian use, agroculture, SAR, hell, COIN, alternative, turbofan powered valk is a right way to do things?
Also, remember that propeller powered VF-25 exist.
In few variants.

>>14397536

The propeller VF-25s (Wyvern I and II) retained their fusion turbines, they just didn't run them because IIRC the atmosphere they were designed for was flammable or something. The propellers added on as packs that could be jettisoned for space use.

>>14397533
He is ghost, anon.

>>14397560
So ghosts have no legs? Like, they specifically have no legs, but keep everything else?

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>>14397533
I think its more that his profile is just fading away. Maybe suggesting he's not reall there if you wanna try analyzing it

>>14397525

> at least in atmosphere

Well there's a problem for a start, because VF's are mostly a space based weapon platform and have been since the VF-11 or so. Even before that some of them had space specialization, while others had atmospheric specialty. Now all of them operate in both and have to be able to do so to compete. Making one that's almost entirely an atmospheric fighter would be kind of dumb.

> using feet nozzles will be more efficient if they are close, really close to the ground for ground effect to kick in

No, the feet nozzles allow for sudden air-braking and changes in direction regardless of whether you're near the ground or in space with no ground anywhere near you. That's practically the modes function at this point. In Battroid it can use them for maneuvering too, but it's not as necessary.

> SV-51 used ducted fans to supplement it's movement in gerwalk/battroid modes

All they were was a supplemental system to enable VTOL and help with stealth, it's main engines were still in the legs.

> Bigger diameter fans on articulated mounts, like Avatar gunships or quinjets, would work just as well

No matter how good the articulated mount is it'll never have as much articulation as the legs. Such wings would also be rather redundant because the legs will always be there. You're not going to make a VF with no legs. So putting nothing in the legs when you could is just kind of pointless. Even if it had articulated turbofan wings, it'd probably have them as well as leg thrusters/engines rather than instead of them, because the legs are still there and there's no point not putting something in them.

>>14397555
>>14397555
I was trying to point out that combat airplane is not always all fitting solution to any problem. And no, strapping an oversized Cessna fuselage to a valkirie is not cost effective solution.
It. Is somewhat baffling. We got ground force that exist to explode and be shot at. We got Destroids, that actually can do some things but in the end explode as well. And then we get valks.
At least Plus had helicopter. Where are ground attack planes? Or is variable fighter a truly universal design, fabled in legends?

>>14397579
>Or is variable fighter a truly universal design, fabled in legends?
Yes.

>>14397408
>>14397411
I stand corrected. I am too used to Gundam having its kits ready for release before they're shown on TV.

>>14397583
So why arenl Valküre riding in a shuttle and not a VIP variant of Siegfried? With it's modular nature using passanger pod would be easier than with Messiah, not to mention safer.
Oh, right. Specialized design. Efficiency.

>>14397560
>>14397567
Shouldn't he not have arms either?

>>14397610
Nippon ghost in modern fiction usually lack feet or legs up to a knee. Something about adaptional attractiveness.

>>14397619
It's also harder for nippon ghosts to molest school girls on the subway without arms.

>>14397605

Shuttle can carry them all together. They do ride in the Siegfried's occasionally (like Episode 1), but it only has room for one more. Outside of lack the specialisation for carrying multiple passengers, it can do a lot though.

>>14397633
>VC-25V VIP Messiah: The Important Persons Escort Model
A special operations aircraft for escorting important persons and rescue, which was developed as a successor to the VF-19C. The transformation mechanism and fixed armaments were removed, and it can accommodate 10 people within the space that was in the arms under the dorsal spine. The VC-25V is equipped with a large, high-power ISC, because it was assumed that important persons or ordinary civilians would board the aircraft. For that reason, the shield has been exchanged for a large power generation unit.
Uhuh.

>>14397650
http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/OTvfmf/VFMFvf25messiah.php

There is even diagram of that modification in the masterfile.
Passanger pod goes where arm would fit in plane/gearwalk - transformation and armament are limited but this is by far safest combat taxi in their universe.
Again, if Valkirie is such a great design, why use normal shuttle?

>>14397650

For the same reason that the VFs in Delta don't have heavy quantum guns, spherical shields or any of the other stuff included in the VF-27 or YF-29 8 years previously: budget. Those things were developed by one company and/or fleet for their use and Chaos doesn't have them purely because they're too expensive, don't know about them or simply don't care.

And probably also because a shuttle is just visually more familiar and simpler from a production stand point, while the VF-25V VIP Messiah is essentially just a footnote in the Macross Chronicle because someone thought it would be cool.

>>14397667
>would be cool
Remind me, whose show is this anyway?
>budget
Exactly. And Chaos is actually doing decently from financial standpoint - custom VFs, Macross, etc.
I ask, why planets like Al Shahal aren't using designs that would make more sense in their situation? Nightmares are ancient by this point, Destroids are literal cannon fodder, Zentradi hardware with upgrades can do something, mostly harass civilians.
Where are cheap, cost effective solutions to common problems? Like APCs with micro missile launchers, if not macrossverse equivalent of attack helicopter.

>>14397688

And I ask why they're not using stronger defenses like the 360 shielding the Durandal had if Walkure are so important. It's because Kawamori thinks an arm mounted one works better from a dramatic standpoint and because Chaos either don't know about it or don't want to spend the money. Both of which can be applied to the VIP Messiah too. You're assuming the pod is cheap but have nothing to back it up.

>>14396308
>>14396324
completely forgot about that....

>>14397688

> Where are cheap, cost effective solutions to common problems? Like APCs with micro missile launchers, if not macrossverse equivalent of attack helicopter.

What would they be needed for? An attack helicopter's role is to fly in, attack a ground target and fly back out. Which a VF can do just as well as a helicopter, since it can either fly at low speed/altitude and hover, along with carry the same equipment and systems a helicopter gunship could. An APC with mico-missiles is mostly used to bring down things like gunships or attack installations from a distance. Both of which a VF can do quite easily and effectively.

There is some variety in weapons within Macross, between VFs, Monsters, Destroids, Capitol Ships and soldiers wearing EX-Gear, which fill in most roles you could envisage between them. Variable fighters are just the most versatile of them and can fill a lot of roles, especially once you start accounting for the different packs they usually have.

>>14397650
>>14397658

Don't trust the Master File books as gospel without anything else to back them up. The actual existence of designs like VIP-Calibur, the Wyvern, and the Vajra-aggressor type is kind of dubious, as are some of the internal diagrams printed in the book. Of course, it's a big galaxy, and some of the stuff in the books never seen elsewhere might exist, but it's not guaranteed just because those particular books say so.

If Kawamori thought VIPCaliburs should be a thing, and in common use, he'd have drawn them himself and inserted them in the show. :)

>>14397688

*Chaos* is doing decently, because they've got multiple planetary governments paying them for something they can charge whatever the hell they want for as they're the only provider. They also pump most of their cash into stuff that makes them better at providing that self-same service, hence the new VFs. The Macross on the other hand may be older than the current Var problem, we don't know yet.

The local governments on the other hand didn't really need more than VF-171s because there are no space monsters in this region, and VF-171s are more than enough to deal with wild Zentraedi. It wasn't until Windermere went nuts and started conquering their neighbors that the local governments needed anything more than that, and even then it wouldn't have helped due to the Windermere use of the "yoink!" song.

(one interpretation of the interview material and the model kit promo blurbs is that the VF-31s that Chaos are using are lent to them for both operational testing, and to arouse the local governments interest so that they'll buy them when they become available for mass production - which they apparently aren't right now.)

As for your cheap, cost-effective solutions - during the Al Shahal ground fight in episode 1, the Var-ed out Zentraedi were using mecha with jump jets inside a built-up area, and the battle was basically over before ground vehicles could have gotten there. Similar situations apply in the other cases. Windermere isn't assaulting military bases, they just co-opt them while their own forces go for the protoculture ruins.

And finally, the death knell of the attack helicopter in the Macross universe was some time back in episode 2 or so of the original series, when it was shown that the enemy could be counted on to always pack enough missiles to paste any helicopter that got close enough to spot them. You need speed to dodge missiles, and helicopters don't have it. The Macross-verse equivalent of a helicopter these days is a VF in Gerwalk.

>>14397701
Not that guy but the Durandal had 4 engines to power that monster. I stand by the idea that the YF-29 will be the strongest fastest valk for a few generations purely because it has everything more modern valks have AND four powerplants. It's ECA should be the strongest and it should be able to fire its beam gunpod more times than any of its successors.

The biggest thing the Seigfried has for it is that it is absolutely bristling with weapons, even more so than valks normally have. Now that I think about it, a YF-29 with a fuselage modified for arm mounted guns would be sweet.

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>>14398164
>The biggest thing the Seigfried has for it is that it is absolutely bristling with weapons,
It only has a gunpod, the two arm guns, the head laser(s), and some missiles. Even a 171 carries more weaponry. Also of note is the YF-29 appears to have arm guns of some kind similar to the armored pack but they aren't listed in the specs.

I just want to see more of VF-31A

>>14398245
Wait about 3 years for a Hasegawa limited edition kit.

>>14398192

Compared to the VF-25 it *is* bristling with weapons, on account of the VF-31 actually having built-in missile launchers, which the VF-25 lacked. And with the super parts installed, it has twenty micro-missile launcher ports, which is basically more than we've seen on anything else ever, plus whatever they're hiding in the shoulder pieces which never opened in episode 6.

Where the VF-25 has it beat however is the capacity for under-wing stores, because the VF-31A has only one hardpoint under each wing (it goes on the shield in battroid or gerwalk); the Siegfried versions have two, and the VF-25 has three. Plus there are packs other than super parts for the VF-25, like the Armored and Tornado packs, which we haven't seen any equivalent of for the VF-31.

>>14398264

The Tomytec Gimix kit will be out next month, which is at least something. Even if it's almost the price of a 1/72 transformable kit...

>>14398192
You're forgetting the beam gunpod. Chuck's variant though doesn't have it though since it has radome instead. The VF-31 Seigfried armament is more custom built to support Walkure. The VF-31A Kairos variant used by Alpha and Beta platoons may have more armaments.

>>14398303
Gimix is poo and unworthy of representing aircraft in all their glory.

>>14398329

Huh. Not that I much care either way, not paying 3,400 yen to HLJ and another 850 yen to the customs inspector for a 1/144 kit even if it's pre-painted. It does look reasonably detailed though, and it has all the panel lines and what not that it's supposed to according to the line art.

>>14398307
At the very least, the A/B variants will ditch the drones (freeing up space for more missiles) and the recharger (opening up the other slot on the backpack weapon rack).

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>>14398303

>>14398632

Depending on how badly the decals piss me off, I might decide to paint my VF-31J like that. It's basically all standard colors that I have in my paint box anyway. :)

>>14397204
Seriously what the fuck is Mikuno, her hair looks like goddamn swords

>>14397605
>VIP variant
I'll point out a reason why they might not want to use a VIPMessiah or VIPcalibur.

Those are variants of what is otherwise a top of the line VF.
The cost of one is probably close to the cost of just buying a regular VF-25 or VF-19. The money could be better used for getting more VFs to protect Walkure with, and giving them a normal shuttle instead would be more cost effective.

>>14398965
PROTOCULTURE

>>14398303
I'll get the VF-1A and VF-31A but that's IT. I gotta start saving up for the DX's.

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New preview is out: http://macross.jp/delta/story/

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>>14400085

>>14400091
That basically looks like a Saab Draken and a su-27

>>14388940

SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN MACROSS DRA-GON!

>>14399089
I'm staying away from both the Tomytec and DX releases - too much money for what you're getting in the former case, too much money period for the latter. Insufficient disposable income...

>>14400091

Oh, this looks like it's going to be one of those epic troll moments. We get the VF-31J kit, mid season no less (remember, Bandai didn't start releasing VF-25 kits until the show was basically over), and in the very next episode after the kit is released, less than three days later, the VF-31J is destroyed so Hayate has to upgrade to the VF-31F, meaning that the kit that everyone just bought is obsolete.

>>14400344

Mirage has already been assigned the F, giving her Messer's plane sub type as well as his squad position. Which makes sense. Hayate is unlikely to get the same type of plane as her, especially when he's already flying a type specifically made to support the F type in some manner according to it's designation. He may get the...was it J type she had? I doubt it though. We know he's getting drones courtesy of Makina in the next episode or two though, so that fulfills much the same purpose and gives a new model for the show to pimp.

>>14400364
Hayate is in the J. Mirage was previously in the VF-31C.

>>14400364
>>14400378

Mirage is still in the C, as of the "preparing to launch" shot during the fold transition to Al Shahal. It also still has the Delta 4 number marking on it.

What I'm thinking is that if the VF-31C survives this battle, it'll be getting Delta 2 markings (which will be an option on the model kit, since it's basically just six extra stickers). Hayate will wreck his VF-31J, and move on to the VF-31F (because it's there, and it currently doesn't have a pilot), which will have have the number changed to Delta 4 to match his new position.

Or, Mirage stuffs up her stint at command and gets demoted back down to Delta 4, while Roid defects to Chaos and is given Messer's VF-31F so he can fight Keith...

>>14400406

The show might still have her marked as Delta 4 in a vf-31c, but Arad already said she's been promoted to Delta 2 and will be given an F type. She just hasn't gotten the plane yet due to time constraints, same as she hasn't had her numbering officially changed yet. And Road isn't a pilot. Keith specifically said he worked from the air, while Roid worked from the ground with his wings clipped. If he changes sides he'll continue working there, not suddenly start sortieing.

>>14400427
Lots of baseless claims in this one.

>>14400432

All of it is in the show. Arad saying Mirage was being promoted, Keith saying Roid worked from the ground etc. You not liking it doesn't make it baseless.

>>14400442

There was not one word about Mirage getting an F in the show. Her being Delta 2, yes. Nothing about changing what type VF she's riding.

Also, nothing said Roid couldn't fly, Roid *chose* not to fly. Getting his wings clipped means he took a non-flying position at the court, so he could further his plans better. He's still a knight, he very likely has the full package of knight skills, it's just that he doesn't have a ride because his position doesn't require one.

>>14400460

Oh and to clarify, by "her being Delta 2" I mean that she's the squadron XO, and their leader while Arad is away doing CAG things and directing the battle.

>>14400460

Okay, I'll pop in later when I'm home to confirm the F thing. You already said yourself her callsign has been changed but not updated on the plane, her plane not being changed yet for the same reason isn't a massive stretch.

That said, you're the one assuming Roid will or could fly. All I'm doing is pointing out that he doesn't and isn't likely to start just because he changed sides. He still has other skills besides being a knight (a skill set he's been surpassed in going by the fact Keith beat him), so if he changed sides he's likely to want to continue using those skills to benefit Chaos as well as reach whatever goal he has (save Heinz presumably). Making him change roles as well as sides is unlikely, as is making him a pilot when adding him would eclipse Hayate and Mirage, at least in the next couple of episodes. Which is especially silly since the plot just got rid of Messer, who was their safety net and almost definitely is just about to have them grow because of it. Adding Roid to the squad doesn't really add anything, but does waste his established skill as a researcher and tactician.

>>14377558

Bit late commenting on this pic, but if you look closely you'll see some interesting things. First of all, that the other three identifiable domes in the picture are different from the big one in the middle (different pattern of the dome frames), but identical to each other; but also that the ship attached to the one in the lower right corner looks more like a Battle-class than an Uraga. The connection piece definitely looks the same at the very least, with the same fins, the same box in between the fins, and the same cylindrical thing on the side.

It's hard to tell what the ship in the top left corner is from this angle, but by the look of things, the Macross 1 fleet may have had at least four Battle class carriers and who knows how many stealth frigates. (I count 35 non-Macross type ships in the picture, and all the ones that are large enough to identify are frigates...

>>14400364

Where does the info that Hayate will be getting drones come from? Remember, the VF-31 already *has* drones, Kawamori's interview says he designed the Lilldraken drones as a counterpart to the multidrones (the boomerang things) on the VF-31.

>>14400544
there were some quotes from 2ch that the VF-31 would be getting some kind of super pack or something designed by MakiMaki. Never did hear what the source was, but around then it was also said there'd be drones with it.

Would love to see the actual source and what was actually said. 2ch comments themselves aren't reliable, and even those then get warped once they get here.

>>14400557

Yea, that was where I was getting it too.

>>14398607
No doubt they can use the YF-30's missile container, but do you think they can make a beam turret with two barrels half the length of a normal gunpod in both sections of the container? We better get a ton of customization for the games, damn it.

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>>14401795
Anyone notice Chuck's arm shields have a unique shape?

>>14401804
Did Kawamori seriously like this game, or was just being paid to advertise it?

>>14402065

What game is it?

>>14401948

Those are part of the Super pack system, you can see them in the model magazine scans.

>>14400557
Aside from the drones I think its pretty much a given that Hayate and everyone else will be getting a super pack, my only wish for this show is that I honestly don't want Hayate to magically become a pilot on par with Messer too fast, I would honestly love to see him,Mirage and Freya defeat Keith together since it would go against his wholw thing about being the sole best pilot and getting defeat by the three people working together would be awesome


Though I guess this could be because I found it pretty goddamn awesome Brera and Alto fighting in synchrony with the singers in the ending of the tv show

>>14402137
Ah, I must have missed that.

>my only wish for this show is that I honestly don't want Hayate to magically become a pilot on par with Messer too fast
Same here. However we're already at the half point, so I'm keeping my expectations moderate.

>spoiler
Yeah, I'm hoping we get a Nyan Nyan Walkure Delta or something as a final medley of all the songs to go along with the battle.

>>14402147

Super packs are for space combat - we've already seen that Delta uses them when they're on pure space missions, like Chuck's patrol with Reina in episode 1 or the battle in episode 6. They don't use them in atmosphere, or when they're immediately heading towards it, because they're heavy, draggy, and have limited endurance when not in a vacuum due to being essentially rocket engines.

We *might* eventually see atmospheric-use super parts, other fighters like the VF-11 and VF-19 had them in Macross 7 so there's canonical precedent. (The Tornado packs don't really count as their extra engines weren't so much designed as atmospheric boosters as a way to power that beam turret, and a setup like that wouldn't work for the VF-31 anyway.)

>>14402250
>Same here. However we're already at the half point, so I'm keeping my expectations moderate.
Eh, if he keeps getting better like he is doing now I wont mind, he is actually thinking about how to act and the only time he became really fucking good was when he was being boosted by songs

>>14402264
I remember Ozma using his super pack while fighting in the atmosphere, I remember it being on the movies, I don't remember on the tv show because it has been a long time

>>14402271
Super packs can technically be used in atmosphere but not in fighter mode.

>>14402271

Ozma used his Armored packs inside the Frontier colony (and during the final battle in Wings of Goodbye), but he was stuck in Gerwalk or Battroid the whole time. The Armored pack doesn't generate anywhere near enough aerodynamic lift to fly in atmosphere, the best it can do is hover on its engine exhausts.

Super packs most likely have the same restrictions, but we can't tell because everyone always eject their super packs before entering the atmosphere. (I just checked The False Songstress, and Michael is pack-less during both fights inside the colony, and Luca stays outside.)

>>14402102

A shitty chinese game.

Possibly going to catch hell for this, but it'll drown in the porn on /r/ if I post it there, so here it goes.

A while back, I found what appears to be the only live torrent out there for the Macross The First manga. It's in Spanish, but that's not too much of a barrier since Google speaks that just fine and I can just type it in, speech bubble by speech bubble.

What's less convenient though is that the torrent is missing chapters - specifically, it contains only the first chapters of volumes 1 and 2. Volume 1 was translated in its entirety and is available everywhere, but Volume 2 past the first chapter appears to be unobtanium.

Does anyone have any clue where to find Chapters (not volumes) 4 and 5 of Macross The First, in *any* language? Preferably the Spanish version, since I can actually mostly read that (and since I doubt the actual translators really skipped three entire chapters while they were doing the translations, it's kind of hard to do that by accident)...

>>14400189
Literally looks nothing like a flanker.

>>14402812

It does have a few design features in common - the engines being in separate nacelles, and the wing leading edges blending into the nose.

>>14402839
Engines being in separate nacelles have been in so many different fighters though.
The wing blending into the front part of the airframe shows up in the F-16, the MiG-29, the Berkut, so its not like that's a Flanker specific design element either.

>>14402851

Was mostly pointing out that I could see where the poster that made the comparison was coming from.... unlike the people who insist the Sv-154 is based on the F-5 or A-4.

>>14400089

DEL-TAH FI-VUH!
DEL-TAH FI-VUH!
DEL-TAH FI-VUH!
DEL-TAH FI-VUH!
DEL-TAH FI-VUH!
DEL-TAH FI-VUH!

[Ohys-Raws] Macross Delta - 13 (MX 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4

No spoiler review: That was *crazy* awesome.

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>>14396397

>>14405666

I'm glad personally, if only because those limbs look way too spindly. I don't even care if they use overtechnology to make them capable of supporting the weight without issue, it's just ugly and visually unappealing.

>>14405666

Wait, is that supposed to be proof the legs don't need an engine each on them going by your post in the other Macross thread? Cause those legs have, if not an engine, at least a thruster in each of them.

>>14405704
Kinda.
Also, no MAIN engine, just like YF-21 and it's derivatives have done.
Leg thrusters are use for hovering only, not as main propulsion. Ergo, they can be, as another anon mentioned, 'cold' thrusters, like those on Harrier or ducted fans - point is, it is one engine design.

Using multiple computers at the same time sucks.
Also, hi.

>>14405736

My comment that it could never have one engine was predicated on the idea that the things in the legs of the VF-22 were engines because they had thrust. They're not, they're thrusters, which don't produce thrust but do channel it. Which is my mistake, and really a semantic thing I suppose.

What I should have said was that you can't have a VF with one thruster or engine between two legs apparently, since my point of contention wasn't so much that the engine couldn't be placed elsewhere, but that the legs had to have something in them to make Gerwalk mode useful at all and to give Battroid mode a good deal of it's mobility and utility.

So the argument is really my fault for not phrasing my thoughts properly or researching the VF-22/YF-21 enough to know the legs had thrusters and not engines.

>>14405779
My English is somewhat limited, so I was looking for that drawing to illustrate my argument s better than words could.

...this is getting awkward. Let's hug or touch runes. Or something.

File: AREN'T YOU THE LUCKY ONE.jpg (132KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

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>>14405816
>touch runes
BLUE
BOARD

>>14405816

Well I wouldn't have thought it was awkward for one party to admit he was wrong and arguing incorrectly, but if you're that unused to it I can just call you a cunt or something to make you feel better I guess. That aside, at least we're done now.

>>14405779

You could probably make a VF with a single engine, provided it used the same arrangement as the YF-21/VF-22, but it would need to be a seriously powerful engine to pull it off. Something like sticking a FF-3001 engine from a YF-30/VF-31 in something the size of a VF-1. And making the transformation look any good would be really tricky.

>>14405816
>>14405823
> touch runes
gosh windermere, if runes was sensitive shouldn't they cover up those shit, just like human wearing cloths to cover up crotch & tits from exposed?

>>14405857
Transformation could actually be improved, as engine can be mounted like a turret/backpack is on conventional valks, freeing rest of the machine volume to the robot part.
>>14405880
something something self control.

Also, we are in Macross thread. I mean, big boys thread.
Why is nobody commenting on Elision greatness today?

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>>14405886
I got wet during this scene.

>>14405897
>Officer of the Watch to helmsman: Emergency Blow
>Sir, we're in a Transforming Carrier, not a submarine
>I. SAID. EMERGENCY. BLOW.

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>>14405897
>yfw it can dual-wield

>>14406051

Don't forget it might have had an ur-Macross type gun on the back, too - except it was shot off by the Sigur Valens right before Elysion shot back...

>>14406157

Was that a cannon? On the Quarter it wasn't.

>>14407541
It might be. Been.
>>14406051
Spot on. We know what we get for final battle.

So the Hemera transformed to act as a gun ship for the Elysion... does that mean Elysion has two main cannons when in full configuration since Hemera and Aether look to be the same class of ship?

>>14408449
Seems like it. And >>14406157
Tiny. But fierce.

>>14408455
I was originally assuming it was going to fully for the SDF-1 style Macross cannon since it had a carrier on both arms and generally leaned towards that aesthetic in its design.

>>14408455
Its 800 compared to SDF's 1200. It's not that small

>>14408492
Which is half of Battle class.

>>14408526
only in ship form though

>>14406051
> How do we make a more awesome Macross style ship after Macross Quarter and its awesome Heavy Quantum Dimensional Cannon?
> Give it two.

>haven't been watching delta since 8 because life
>finally have time to catch up
>binge 9-13
holy shit that was an emotional roller coaster

>>14409831
I think I saw some draken caught in that explosions as well, were they random mooks or did some of the aerial knight got caught in the blast?

>>14409843

As far as I can tell, *all* of Windermere's pilots are "Aerial Knights", so yes, some of the aerial knights bought it. None of the named ones though, because we see Herman and the other old guy (whose name I never remember) immediately after; Theo and Xao are seen reacting to the Song of the Wind (which doesn't start up until later); Bogue does his thing, as usual; and Keith of course gets shot down much later in the episode.

>>14409843

We should have at least lost a twin or one of the older guard to that blast radius...similar to Kakizaki or Nora's deaths.

>>14409835
I really like that he's on Keith's left side. Back in episode 8, Bogue was aiming his right hand cannons to shoot at Hayate, but Hayate was faster. Here Hayate seems to have learned and is on left side, where the Draken doesn't have hand cannons because it has that shield instead. Boy's learning

>>14409857
Keith leads the white knight squad, that has 6 members, but there's more aerial knights in total.

>>14409823
But why did Sigur Valens miss? Even if they were aiming for the bridge there's really no excuse for their aim to be too high instead of too low.

>>14409872
>because it has that shield instead

On the other hand he might have lost his chance at a kill because of that, so it's a bit of a trade off.

>>14409942

Because the episode's quota for named character deaths was almost up, and killing Johnson and the bridge bunnies would have exceeded it?

Also, not letting a Macross type ship fire it's main gun before destroying it would have the fans storm Satellite's HQ and lynch them.

>>14409947
he hit him straight in the cockpit though.

But the Draken seems to go for an armored cockpit with no seethrough canopy, instead relying entirely on the fighters sensors and i guess the pilots rune?

Any idea what the new OP/ED will be?

>>14409950
It's not like they needed to do the scene that way though, they could have had Ernest order maneuvering thrusters fired downward a the last second before firing to cause the Windies shot to miss or done things shootout style and had the Elysion complete it's charge a split second before Sigur Valens. Instead they ship just mysteriously shoots over them.

>>14409952
>he hit him straight in the cockpit though.

That shield took a lot of body shots that would have landed just behind the cockpit though, might have either damaged the plane enough to be unable to land, or triggered an explosion. Probably still better to avoid getting into not one but two quick draw matches with Keith though given that he basically tied the one with the laser turrets.

>>14406157
>>14407541
Boom-type collators haven't been seen since the SDF/SDFN-class. More than likely they're obsolete now.

>>14409956
we're not gonna know until we're hit with one

>>14409971

Would love to see Hayate try to get Keith intro Battroid mode. Seems like the pretty boy (blonde one) doesn't like mode changing too often.

So since both arms are gunships that means they're definitely going to Daedalus and then fire the cannon point blank from inside the hull at some point right? Probably of the Sigur Valens.

>>14409942
Because it wasn't stationary target, was relatively small, windermere crew was suprised and using unfamiliar systems.
Also, it didn't miss, it was a clear hit on the superstructure.
>>14409963
>what is inertia
Now, even with overtech Macross sized ships are obviously slugish when moving. Even Macross punch from Frontier finale was slow.
Most nimble so far was Quarter and it was shown to actually dodge heavy turrets fire.
Here, Elision literally ducked a bit.
>>14409984
Aren't they stranded now? Maybe it was long range comm array?
Thou more macross cannons is always welcome.
>>14410017
They might. Anybody spotted destroids on Elision?

>>14410022
>what is inertia

Here's the thing, if they're wanting to hit they'd be leading their target, just slowing their ascent could be enough to throw off the enemy attack, though there is a question of it they have engines big enough for the necessarily acceleration facing that direction.

>>14410017

Maybe we'll see the rocket punch that Gloval did in Macross The First.

>>14410102

What was that, firing one of the ARM-D carriers as a fist? It's a cool idea at least.

>>14410102
>rocket punch with the Aether
>While Walkure performs

Now that's what I call an assault concert.

>>14410102
Is there anywhere to get downloads of macross the first?

>>14410162

I'm not allowed to post a direct link, but google "facebook unspacy.cl" and you should get the facebook page of a scanslation group that's done the only complete translation of the series that I know of. Pity it's in spanish, but at least Google translates that halfway decently.

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Is this what /m/ refers to as QUALITY, by any chance?

>>14410228
I wouldn't mind it raw, though, I guess i should have added that, but that's probably even harder to find

>>14410232

What's QUALITY about that?

>>14410242
You can get the official digital raw here:
http://comic-walker.com/contents/detail/KDCW_KS07000005010000_68/

>>14410346

That thruster exhaust is supposed to come out of the thruster...

Also, holy crap. I'm doing a screencap pass of the episode, grabbing frames from scenes that show interesting stuff like details of mecha or ships that we haven't seen before. I'm half way through the episode, and I've found more than forty frames worth of "essential" stuff that I couldn't not post to the Macross Tech Discussion thread on [redacted because REEEE]

>>14410450

Comic Walker is a pay site, and they don't accept non-Japanese customers. I tried it earlier. You have to spoof it to think you're in Japan to get it to show you anything other than the first bit of Tales of South Ataria (the flashback arc), and even then you can't get anything other than the latest chapter without paying... and it looks like you need a Japanese account to do it too.

New game when? I want to paint Siggies in Hikaru Ichijo colors and blow up Drakens.

>>14410574

I thought that was someone shooting. That's thrust? Why is it green?

>>14410636

No clue why it's green, but the sequence lasts for about twenty frames total while the Lilldraken drone maneuvers around on thrusters. It's basically the best shots we've ever gotten of the thing, and they're all packed into half a second. That thing is *fast*.

So Elysium tanked Sigur Valen's main cannon with a pin point barrier, so is it confirmed that it's main weapon is weaker than a typical Macross Cannon?

>>14411091

The beam was certainly smaller than a typical Macross Cannon shot, but since we never saw it hitting anything else - and since we've never seen a correctly oriented and large enough pin-point-barrier fail to tank something, I wouldn't go drawing any conclusions.

>VF-31As didn't job

based

>>14411121

We don't see any shot down by the Knights that I can remember, no. But two of them were definitely obliterated by the Sigur Valens' main gun when it was firing at Aether. Does that count as jobbing?

>>14411118
I thought we'd seen a battle class main cannon penetrate a pin point barrier at some point in Frontier.

>>14411153

In Frontier TV, we see the Battle Frontier fire once in "Fold Fame" to kill a bunch of Vajra, and the Battle Galaxy fire once to hit the Battle Frontier in the gun, and that's about it. There was no pin point barrier effect on the second blast, so it was apparently not up.

In the Frontier Movies, we see the Vajra battleship tank a full power Macross cannon blast, then after the Quarter busts up the barrier generator, the battleship gets holed by another blast and destroyed.

In the second movie, the only Macross Cannon shots are from the Vajra-boosted Battle Frontier, and one of those is tanked by a bunch of Vajra soldiers, and the other is the one that literally boils away five Uraga-class ships before it actually hits. Those ships don't appear to have had their barriers up...

>>14409942
They were aiming to stop the Elysion from firing.

Just like the audience, they were fooled into thinking its main gun was in the backpack.

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Absolutely deculture.

>>14409942
Other than what's been mentioned so far, it might also be a reference to the Macross having its towers knocked out by the meltran gunship.

>>14412045
There hasn't been a Macross class ship with its main cannon there since the original type. For the last 40+ years every newly constructed Macross class has had its main gun in the form of a gunship held by the arms.

Sure, there's the SDFN class that are basically copies of the original Macross, but there's far more of the New Macross class as well as the Macross Quarter class ships running around at that point.

The sector is lost and NUNS are a truckload of assholes, what now?

>>14412324
Came here as a Miragefag but
I'm liking both equally now, help

>>14412400
I was a miragefag too, but now I know the true waifu is Macross Elysion

>>14412324
this show has a lot of jumping off really high places

>>14412416
I am also, and will remain a Miragefag, but now I wish for the Elysion and Freyja to engage in hot lesbian action

>>14410948
Electromagnetic thruster nozzle?
PPB nozzle?
OVERTECH!
>>14411458
to be precise, it managed to hit Quarter's cannon, Frontier's cannon and still hit it's main body.
Did no perceivable damage to Battle class itself thou.

Sheryl is better than all these sluts. I wonder if she's still in her coma

>>14412400
>The sector is lost and NUNS are a truckload of assholes, what now?
Wait for Keith get his kokoro melt and team up with Hayate to save his brother.

>>14412324
I liked how it's the usual "boy rescues falling girl" but this time they put another girl in the valkyrie. They're doing some weird things with the triangle this time.

>>14412933

I don't like that it only took two episodes for Hayate to do what Messer couldn't and shoot down Keith. It makes me hope the next time they face off he doesn't have Freyja and has to do it on his own, even buffing himself via the crystal pendant or something to match Keith's rune.

I am still waiting for the windniggers to awaken a fucking birdman and get their shit slapped

>>14413121

Almost happened this episode. Will probably happen in an episode or two now that Gramia is dead, the Windermereans have control of all ruins and once the Sigur Valens is repaired they'll have the means to activate them.

They really have nothing left to stop them and not much left to accomplish to fill the last half of the series. Even Keith has been dethroned as invincible.

Sadly NUNs will probably be the real enemy now given what a dick the officer was and how he noted after the reaction warhead explosion that they had all the data they needed and could leave.

>>14413156
I wont be surprised if that guy is working with the weapon seller to be honest.

>>14409835
Note how he explicitly went for the kill here this time

>>14413156
>NUNs will probably be the real enemy now given what a dick the officer was
I doubt that.

Its most probably Epsilon. That NUNS officer could have easily been an agent infiltrating NUNS.

>>14413156
>Sadly NUNs will probably be the real enemy now given what a dick the officer was and how he noted after the reaction warhead explosion that they had all the data they needed and could leave.

Eh NUNS didn't almost decimate the entire population of the city by shooting their main gun at it and hitting it with their song.

They also kill a shit ton of people testing their mind control system on peaceful worlds.

White knight was preaching genocide in episode 12.

At that point, even though the series makes it seem like it was horrible, the reaction warhead was sensible.

>>14413383

I didn't say that the Windermereans were morally better or say anything about the fact NUNs had detonated the reaction warhead. I only noted that they were probably bad because the officer seemed to care more about data collection after blowing it rather than because they'd used it at all. The Windermereans are absolutely bad, but that doesn't mean the show won't try to paint the NUNs/NUG as worse or make them do worse by show's end after having the Windermereans absolve themselves in some way.

>>14412942
Mirage does a lot of catching people. She got them when they were shot down in the first episode then got both Hayate and Freyja individually this episode too.

>>14413383

They've tried nuking protoculture artifacts twice before, and it didn't work. The Bird Man facetanked four reaction warheads while using its shield to keep the blast contained. And Gepernich went "you dropped this, here, have it back" on Max' supposed planetcracker in Mac7, and would probably have tanked it if it wouldn't have destroyed his spiritia farm.

And the last set of ruins we saw in the franchise were the ones on Ouroboros, and you know what that turned out to be....

>>14413411
The thing is, with how wide NUNS is and colonies having their own autonomous authority, each colony effectively has a different government, they are just affiliated with Earth HQ. As shown, each colony has its own people as soldiers, and the cat people planet even had one of the cat people in charge there.

Winderemere attacking the other colonies just because they are under NUNS comes off as a rather narrow-minded justification.


With the size of NUNS, there being infiltrators from organizations trying to get their own goals wouldn't be a stretch. The dick that ordered the ruins to be nuked could be easily an infiltrator from the organisation helping Winderemere, and the organisation is probably playing both sides for their own goal.

>>14413411
>I only noted that they were probably bad because the officer seemed to care more about data collection after blowing it rather than because they'd used it at all.

The officer was a dick, but NUNS being the big bad because they dispatched some guy to the sector after one planet decided to start mind controlling and killing everyone else in the sector isn't so bad.

There haven't been any complaints I can remember in Delta about Nuns not originating form Windmere, who also do everything they accuse NUNs of in a worse way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would hate for Windmere to get off because some dick showed up halfway through the show.

>>14413450
So you think he was just testing the ruins or destroy them?

Also was blowing up the windmere fleet supposed to be a secondary objective(for him)?

>>14413466
Has any membership cost ever been stated?

Old cat dude made NUNS sound benevolent if anything.

>>14413469

I think he was testing both the ruins and the Sigur Valens, and didn't much care about the outcome of the battle either way. Notice his ships are hovering near the dome while the battle is raging in orbit, and then it's conspicuously absent from the vicinity of the dome once the fighting gets there. His ships are not shown firing a single shot in defense of the colony or otherwise, he just waits until Sigur Valens is in the blast radius, detonates the bomb, and goes "Ah! Just as the scientists predicted, let's get out of here."

>>14413480

The prequel manga apparently mentions that the treaty with Windermere let the NUNS use the Aerial knights on missions constantly, so they were always off planet fighting other people's wars.

>>14413480
>Old cat dude made NUNS sound benevolent if anything.
Well, it could simply be how the people in charge of the colony that uplifted them was like.

A lot of them are nice folks, that's for sure.
Then you got people like Galaxy, and whoever that contacted Winderemere who presumable were dicks to the Winderemereans.

>>14413450

> you know what that turned out to be

I don't actually, given that I haven't played Marcross 30. And I doubt I'm alone in that.

>>14413469

> but NUNS being the big bad because they dispatched some guy to the sector

Again, I'm not saying they're probably going to be bad because he's there, because he's a dick or because he wanted to use a nuke - that makes him alone an insensitive dick at most. I'm saying they're probably going to be bad specifically because he was more concerned with data collection than with the reaction warhead or conflict.

>>14413489
>The prequel manga apparently mentions that the treaty with Windermere let the NUNS use the Aerial knights on missions constantly, so they were always off planet fighting other people's wars.

Before or after the war?

So they want to be isolationists with an empire?

>>14413469
>I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would hate for Windmere to get off because some dick showed up halfway through the show.

I agree with this.
I mean, even ignoring the war itself, their bullshit song has caused god knows how many civilian deads alone and they were actively trying to kill the "cure" to it even before the war was officially declared

>>14413501
>Again, I'm not saying they're probably going to be bad because he's there, because he's a dick or because he wanted to use a nuke - that makes him alone an insensitive dick at most. I'm saying they're probably going to be bad specifically because he was more concerned with data collection than with the reaction warhead or conflict.

There isn't much to say whether its organizational or personal.

>>14413522

The fact he was acting as part of an organisation to get data by blowing up a ruin and had their support suggests it's not personal.

>>14413530
He could have pulled some strings to get sent over there.

It would explain why there wasn't a large amount of reinforcements.

>>14413491

If the prequel manga summaries are correct, then yeah, the windermereans were definitely shat on pretty comprehensively.

"Ah, you're a feudal monarchy, how quaint. As part of your terms of membership, your soldiers (their ruling class, no less) will have to serve in our forces and obey our orders, and we will start exporting our culture which will cause massive disruptions to your social order." Possibly also with less than totally ethical studies of the locals to see what makes them faster and stronger, and the like.

>>14413501

I didn't play it either, there's a let's play on youtube though.

The ruins in Macross 30 turn out to be a containment facility keeping one of the Protoculture's space-time superweapons locked up. Messing with them is what causes the characters of all the previous Macross shows to start popping up, because this particular one can reach through time.

I'm guessing Lloyd has some deal with the NUNS, that's why they're not even bothering to respond.

>>14413539

The fact that their plan was nuke it alone explains a lack of reinforcements. And even if he was pulling strings to get their he still obviously had support for his idea since Lady M had to act just to delay it and he was reporting that it had blown and they had the data to someone.

>>14413574
Probably a bunch of allies helping him on the inside.

>>14413574
>he still obviously had support for his idea
Because "Hey, they enemy is using the ruins to mindrape our forces, we should blow the ruins in Ragna so they can't do it" is actually tactically sound

>their plan was nuke it alone explains a lack of reinforcements
>since Lady M had to act just to delay it
This statements contradict each other, if the nuke was to blow the windermere troops, there was no reason for Lady M to push her weight around for the delay.

>>14413596

Well yeah, multiple people there acting in one way suggests the finger will be pointed at the greater rather than an individual.

>>14413611

> Because "Hey, they enemy is using the ruins to mindrape our forces, we should blow the ruins in Ragna so they can't do it" is actually tactically sound

Again, that's not the bad part. The fact he was concerned with data and reporting data collection before leaving is. If he was reporting, it means someone was monitoring, someone almost certainly higher placed.

> This statements contradict each other

No, they don't.

> if the nuke was to blow the windermere troops

It wasn't, and it's never suggested it was. You even wrote it was to blow the ruins yourself I'm the previous paragraph so I'm not sure how you could mistake that.

> there was no reason for Lady M to push her weight around for the delay.

She acted to delay blowing the ruins to preserve the planet, since blowing them could damage the core and funky up the whole planet, not to stop it killing enemy troops or something.

>>14413653
>so I'm not sure how you could mistake that.
>The fact that their plan was nuke it alone explains a lack of reinforcements.
????????

>>14413503
>Before or after war

Why would the treaty be a thing after it? How is this even a question

>>14413693

Their plan was to nuke the ruins. That was their entire plan. That alone explains a lack of reinforcements, because you don't need them if your plan is to nuke something rather than fight for it.
Even if you failed to understand that statement, the show itself explains the plan, so my post saying what you somehow think is otherwise shouldn't trump that.

>>14413707
The ruins are on a planet anon
A populated planet.

Jesus what part are you not getting?

They blew up the ruins because they secretly wanted to blow up the ruins because they wanted data. They pretend its to stop Windermere from taking the cluster, but in actuality, they don't care and just want the data, hence why they're not comitting to helping, hence why they fuck once they got what they wanted which was the data.

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An asshole being part of the organization doesn't mean the whole organization support him.
Consider even the Windermere seem to be played by the muslim, the guy being the equivalent for NUNS isn't out the question to go around claiming NUNS are being it.

>>14413734
>why they fuck off

>>14412923
No. Movies, novel and at least one interview with Kawamori confirms it. And there is a paragraphs to be find on Sketchley's page from one of more recent publication detailing her's and princess future.
>>14413197
>it's Galaxy and anti-UN remnant again.
Please show SV-52, SV-52, SV-52...

>>14413703
Treaty is technically just a generic form for an agreement between nations, Windmere could have just felt threatened by advanced beings showing up in a griant spaceship.

>>14413707
There was a reason they waited until Windmere fleet was over the warhead.

>>14413734
If the NUNS as a whole wanted to research the ruins why would they let anti-NUNS aliens take it over?

Even if they were behind Windmere they could just any relevant information from them.

>>14413721

Yes, and NUNs plan was to blow up the ruins regardless because it was the best method of keeping them from getting the ruins. While Lady M wanted to stop them to not do it since doing so might destabilise the planet and she wanted to try Chaos' plan instead. She was less concerned with individual lives and more with the collective planet and all the lives. No one ever wanted to nuke the Winders though.

>>14413958

Yes, because Walkure had obviously failed at that point and since they were nuking the ruins anyways, might as well try and get them too. The primary target was always the ruins though. The officer states it plain as day when he arrives.

They weren't planning to let them take it over, they planned to blow it and then let the Winders do whatever since they couldn't take over without all the ruins. The plan failed, but they tried.

>>14414034
>Yes, because Walkure had obviously failed at that point and since they were nuking the ruins anyways, might as well try and get them too. The primary target was always the ruins though. The officer states it plain as day when he arrives.
He states that it was to stop Windmere.

Also
>Their plan was to nuke the ruins. That was their entire plan

>>14414055

He states that their plan is to stop them by blowing the ruins. He never says they're going to nukethem and the nuke is already in place on the ruins by the time he says it.

If the NUNS wanted to keep the ruins, why didnt they just fold 20 Macross class and nuke the fucking windermere fleet?

>>14414088
That is what he said. Some anons believe they/he was just after information and could have been using it as an excuse to try nuking the ruins.

They also waited until windmere's ship was a above the ruins.

>>14414100
Probably because Macross ships are not that common presumably thanks to the cost needed to build one.

I mean, how many confirmed full Macross ships are there? Let's not count destroyed ones yet.

By Frontier, there's at least 25 New-Macross class colonies, so there are at least 25 Battle-class.
Frontier is the 55th fleet, so there should be 30 Megaroad class colonies, each presumably having a full Macross to escort it.
There's 12 SDFNs.
That's 67 of them, not counting the destroyed ones yet, and most of them cannot simply leave where they are at.

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>>14414120

How could it be after information when he said it before Windermere made any move to attack?