Char's Counterattack

File: congratulations.jpg (144KB, 953x720px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 953x720px

>>14360869
Such valuable and unheard of insights! Thank you sharing them with us. I don't think I've ever seen a thread like this before! You have truly reached a deep understanding of the underlying values and meaning of all UC series. Your opinion is greatly appreciated.

>>14360869
>I don't "get" Quess and Hathaway

File: tumblr_m526n4fLTS1qfxv5io1_500.gif (827KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

827KB, 480x360px

>>14360963
This is my second thread on /m/ in the 11 years I've been on 4chan. Does everyone else complain about this movie too?

>>14361265
90% of /m/ these days do.

>>14361271
>do.
does.

File: j2sz6abnw4rr3ka8.jpg (16KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 480x360px

>>14360869


thats great anon

now did you bother watching them in production order ?

File: 1430638686056.png (120KB, 239x194px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 239x194px

>>14361297
>did you bother watching them in production order ?

>>14361297
You're the only one who uses this image

>>14361307
Why is this so hard for people

File: 135888448_640.jpg (22KB, 640x427px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 640x427px

>>14361322
>You're the only one who uses this image

don't bite my style shark nigga

I don't understand the point of speedwatching the early UC continuity just to get to Unicorn. If you're going to watch Unicorn, just watch Unicorn. Only a very basic understanding of the overall plot and setting is required to not be lost in the setting. Humanity is divided by class into those that live in space and those on earth, a nation of people in space declared war, there are piloted humanoid war machines and people with psychic powers are beginning to appear, etc. Of course there's more to it than that, but neither Sunrise nor Fukui require potential viewers/readers to watch about 140 TV episodes and a movie to understand Unicorn or the experience would be ruined. Unicorn stands alone as a story, and the plot itself doesn't require specific grains of knowledge from the older shows.

The main reason to watch the leadup to UC would be if you were interested in the story and you really wanted to understand and get all of the references to the older shows that Unicorn packs in the background and foreground. Yes, Unicorn is meant to be a overall celebratory story (made for Gundam's 30th to 35th anniversaries) with homages and references hailing back to the core of the Gundam franchise, and understanding them can increase enjoyment of Unicorn's story, but the OP doesn't seem to be enjoying that much outside of the neat aspects he mentioned and the mobile suits and animation since the story isn't much to his liking.

TL;DR why go in-depth for the lead-in story if the story's shitty?

>>14361271
I haven't been on /m/ for that long but I remember days when Zeta was mostly universally well liked on this board.
There were always threads like this for CCA.
While it stands to reason the whiny babies are the vocal minority and I know for a fact that the movie is generally well received by the average fan my predominant impression is that even the people that like it and try to defend it are kind of lukewarm about it.
Am I wrong?

>>14361377
It's not really a fantastic movie. It finishes up Char v Amuro very well and Axis Shock (plus beyond the time) is amazing but the rest isn't anything to write home about. Plus there's a bunch of weird shit in the vein of A WOMAN WHO COULD HAVE BEEN A MOTHER TO ME. But overall it's good, better than lukewarm, but not fantastic.

>>14361388
I disagree. It is a masterpiece. I'm completely serious about that.
I've seen as many people who claim that Zeta is a masterpiece as the ones who claim it is shit.
But I've never heard anyone say "Hey,guys.CCA is a masterpiece."

>A WOMAN WHO COULD HAVE BEEN A MOTHER TO ME
It's a typical example of Tomino speak. The exact meaning of the words is kind of hard to understand and probably even harder to explain. There are a lot of lines like this. But I think the sentiment comes trough clearly most of the time. Especially here. This sort of thing is possible because there is great attention to detail. In the script. In the direction. In everything.

>>14361377

I've never seen any of the criticisms as being very well founded. Most of them mirror the bad Zeta criticisms like " if I don't find characters likeable that means its bad. I should want to have tea with all the protagonists". I think it is definitely an A tier Anime movie, the music is perfect, the fight choreography is unmatched ( at least within the franchise) Char's character arc is completed in the most interesting and dynamic way possible, the side characters all play their part in the plot ( and yes, they are all there for the sake of elucidating things about Char,Amuro, their conclusion, and the general themes of UC) and don't overstay their welcome, and thematically it carries on the themes Tomino had chosen to be the core of the original UC saga by Zeta really well.

>>14361523
Well, I guess it's just that most people go in with the wrongful expectation that they should be entertained and that anything that is not entertaining to them serves no purpose.
That works with most shows I guess but Tomino always cared more about pushing his own agenda than telling a proper story.
It's kind of cute how he is always like "Anime should be entertaining. I want to do something that everyone can enjoy." and they he makes something like this and mopes around when people don't like it.

The only reasons I like Gundam are the mobile suit designs and newtype shenanigans.

>>14361388
>>14361483

>The exact meaning of the words is kind of hard to understand and probably even harder to explain

But how is it "hard" to understand. It's awkwardly placed, but makes perfect sense in the context. Amuro and Char were basically "psychoanalyzing" each other near the end when the psychoframe overloaded and UNDERSTANDING in full swing. Char mocked Amuro for not being able to even be a decent father-figure for one person like Quess despite all his lofty ideal about humanities' potential to be better. Amuro responded by saying that he can't truly be someone's father figure that is not a true kin, because that's just human nature. Then Amuro realized that was the reason Char treated Quess like a tool as he did with basically everyone else, because Char had never had a proper family upbringing and called Char out on it. Then Char, knowing that he was right, responded by blaming Amuro that he killed the one mother-like figure that could have humanized him better.

It's this kind of Tominospeak that actaully made these quotes memorable memes, before the term exist. People in Japan old enough to have seen the original Gundam remember them quite well years after the show ended.

>>14361523

I'd say Char's Counterattack wraps Char's character up in one of the most boring ways possible personally, not the best. I found the direction of Amuro and Char's characters in Zeta as vets bearing scars but learning to overcome them even if they can't heal them far more emotive and interesting. I don't dislike CCA as a film,since it's well made, I just dislike the story it seeks to tell because I never found their rivalry all that interesting and don't care about seeing it revived so that it can be concluded. 0079 already had a conclusion. It was a good conclusion. And then Zeta moved the characters on a bit and did interesting things with them. Zeta's not even that great a show, but it's character work is at least a lot more interesting. CCA is basically just replaying the end of 0079 for fanservice and boring because of it.

>>14361377
>when Zeta was universally liked

A long ass time ago then.

>>14361674
I told you. I won't claim that I can explain or even understand fully the meaning of the words. Neither do I want to argue with your interpretation but isn't it just too boring.
I think you are missing a ton of sexual subtext both here and overall.

>>14361690
Yeah, back when /m/ was shitposter free.

File: commodore kira.png (1MB, 1217x3152px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1217x3152px

>>14361799
back then we were kinda super homogenized and supportive, and we could laugh at CE as well as be butthurt

>>14361583

>That works with most shows I guess but Tomino always cared more about pushing his own agenda than telling a proper story.

What most people take to be "telling a proper story" is just sticking to boring conventions that have overstayed their welcome.

>>14361688
>CCA is basically just replaying the end of 0079 for fanservice and boring because of it.

I don't think this is the case. 0079 Char had no real plan for achieving his father's goals, he had basically hoped that Lalah would do it for him. Zeta was him trying it for himself and failing miserably. CCA was Char's last desperate gambit after failing in Zeta. Where he decides that the only way he can pull it off is by becoming a monster. CCA Char's motivations for his plan are parasitic on the events of 0079 and Zeta. In Zeta it makes sense that he could get over Lalah just a little bit ( never totally, they make that very clear, the two of them never totally got over it), because it looked like he could maybe manage without her. When that fails and he realizes that he can't then he gets bitter and becomes CCA Char and is even worse off than 0079 Char after having that little bit of hope crushed. Hence why the rivalry with Amuro matters again, and why Char has become more petty and manipulative than ever. It isn't just a rehash of 0079, it is a really good tragic character arc, Zeta's events are paramount to it.

>>14361322
>Zeta is 85% terrible
>ZZ is mind numbing
>The UC OVAs are all mostly great
>The stuff with the highest production quality is most recent.

Production-order is the least-appealing way of watching UC.

>>14361523
Characters can be as retarded as they want, but it should at least be compelling. The majority of the drama in Zeta is snore city at best, and illogical to the point of dragging the whole show down at worst.

A lot of Gundam fans are embedded into the fandom to the point where they can't accept that other people find flaws in this stuff. It's kinda like when someone says cape movies like X-Men Apocalyspe and Batman vs. Superman are bad and the fans go "what did you expect, it's a superhero movie."

>>14362210
>what did you expect, it's a superhero movie
By your comments(compelling?,snore city? illogical?) I can tell that you just want to be entertained.
Your way of thinking is consumerist.
You are the one who wants to watch a superhero movie and you are disappointed that's not what you got.
As >>14361996 said you are just looking for those
> boring conventions that have overstayed their welcome
Tomino's writing is rough around the edges but what he has to tell and to show is better than 99% of what anime, or for that matter pretty much anything has to offer.

File: 1392218192366.jpg (40KB, 294x220px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 294x220px

>>14362248
If you're the type of person that can go from 0079 to Zeta and think "yeah, this show is great and has no flaws", there's no way that someone like me has the rhetorical know-how to change your mind. I'm don't have a tenth of the intellect required to see these paper-thin one-dimensional characters and scenarios for the masterwork of animated cinema that they truly are.

>>14362286
What part of "rough around the edges" did you interpret as "this show has no flaws".
You don't need to be extra smart to understand Tomino's writing. You just need to get rid of some preconception. It's just a matter of getting used to an alternative form of story telling.
For example if you've never listened to say opera or trash metal for example the first time you hear them you would be like "What the fuck is this horrible noise".
Just quit being so stubborn.
Also remember that Tomino is a sci-fi writer. If I learned something from my career as sci-fi reader it is that the value of the work is inversely proportional to the author's skill as a writer. Sci-fi more than anything is about being "authentic", about the pure idea. Here content defines the form and not the other way round.

>>14362210
>Characters can be as retarded as they want, but it should at least be compelling. The majority of the drama in Zeta is snore city at best, and illogical to the point of dragging the whole show down at worst.

I found most of the characters extremely compelling, same with the drama. Nor is it illogical that people act illogically at times. Considering how fucked up that point of UC is, it makes sense that most people would be a bit off, they are living in the aftermath of the death of half of humanity. Most of the time the characters dysfunction makes sense with what we know about their character, and follows from it pretty naturally, Reccoca's backstory and her actions being a prime example of that.

I can get people finding flaws in Gundam, 0079's rushed ending, Zeta having an excessive amount of mobile suits hugging just to give an excuse for dialogue, even though sometimes they will just have dialogue without doing that, etc are all legitimate grievances. The problem here is that most people have illegitimate complaints that don't actually match up with what happened in the show, or are just entirely subjective like " I didn't feel good during this episode".

File: 2253daf01e83df2acc28df0d7f5f5135.jpg (34KB, 552x414px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 552x414px

>>14362210
>The UC OVAs are all mostly great

>>14361996

I didn't say that CCA is identical to the ending of 0079, only that it replays it - which doesn't mean identical, just that it reuses the same conflicts and so on. Of course there's some continuity and story leading up to it, of course it makes some degree of sense in universe to do so - because the film itself was written to be that way.

I don't believe that it's the only way it could have gone though. Yea, I can see the line of thought Char had throughout all of UC now that CCA is in place, but I can also see how he could have gone another way post Zeta and think other ways are more interesting, including the way we know he was originally going to go in Zeta Part II. With CCA's existence changing that and necessitating some weirdness in ZZ just so that Char could be who he was in CCA instead.

I find the idea of him moving on more emotive and compelling than him having one last duel with Amuro over Lalah. I don't find that a good tragic arc to be honest. I definitely recognize that it's a tragic arc, it's just not one I find interesting.

>>14363245

That really does'nt fit with the general theme of Tomino UC though: that people make the same mistakes and don't learn their lesson, but we still ought to try to do what is right regardless. Tomino's UC saga is all about having the same stupid mistakes happening over and over again, hence why we get tons of dead manipulated newtype girls (Lalah, Four, Quess) in different settings. Amuro never stops being cold and despondant entirely, Char never stops being petty entirely( becoming worse at the end), the earth federation stays corrupt until it falls apart, spacenoids looking for independence always end of resorting to atrocities, newtypes are repeatedly used as war machines when they are the ones who are supposed to bring people together, etc. The failure to move on from our flaws is what Tomino UC Gundam is ultimately about - despite technological advancements, despite cognitive advancements, we are still the same flawed humans that we have always been. And there is still some light to be found in this, moments when we break out, even momentarily, like with Axis Shock.It's mostly pessimistic, but not entirely so. It's not as if CCA makes that the theme, it was already entrenched by Zeta. If anything CCA thematically improves on the supposed Zeta part II( does anyone have a reliable source for that ? I've never seen anything to distinguish it from fan fiction) through thematic unity with Zeta, which isn't as clearly present in Zeta part II.

>>14363265

First of all, while Zeta might have set the theme for UC to be repeating mistakes, it still needed ZZ, CCA, F91 and Victory to cement that theme. So any theoretical new themes theoretical works introduced would be just as valid by virtue of being in those works.

Secondly, Zeta Part II would have Haman repeating the mistakes of the Zabis and Char repeating his own mistakes in a different manner by using violence to enact his will on the Federation Heads and Haman at the very least. Just because it's different doesn't mean it doesn't hue to those themes in another way.

And I would say it does them in a better, more fitting way to be honest, especially if post Zeta Part II the conflict moved beyond the Earthsphere to the Marsphere or inner systems, since it'd mean making the same mistakes in a new theater, rather than the same mistakes in the same theater - which would show that even when things moved on to be a new place, people made the same mistakes for the same reasons. Which, to me, is more interesting.

And yes, the Zeta Part II paste (http://pastebin.com/0SkxGTUt) has something to set it apart from fanfiction, because it includes a source in the Mobile Suit Gundam Daizenshuu ZZ data book along with a website (http://kaito2198.blog43.fc2.com/blog-entry-344.html) which also has the information. Which makes it not fan fiction.

File: 1365140270636.png (310KB, 396x396px) Image search: [Google]

310KB, 396x396px

>>14362317
>If I learned something from my career as sci-fi reader it is that the value of the work is inversely proportional to the author's skill as a writer.

File: unicorn-timetravel.webm (3MB, 704x396px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 704x396px

>>14360869
>but Newtypes are fucking dumb.
Stop watching Gundam. Like right this second because it only gets weirder from here on out.

>>14363592
>unicorn-timetravel

Are you kidding me?
People STILL THINK THIS?

>>14362210
>>The UC OVAs are all mostly great

1 that is generally agreed to be great
2 that are praised as looking nice, but with stories that take nosedives in the second half. One of which regularly sees its cast draw a LOT of hate.

That's a very liberal definition of 'all mostly great'

>>14363627
Well, it's not like they simply had an out-of-body experience and UNDERSTANDING in space.

THE SUITS ARE LITERALLY FLYING THROUGH SOME SALVADORE DALI PAINTINGS, WITH THEIR INSTRUMENTS SPAZZING OUT...

File: n.png (442KB, 720x480px) Image search: [Google]

442KB, 720x480px

>>14363781
IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE, RIGHT?

>>14363573
Not that anon; but you are just picking on his choice of words. What he says about sci-fi is true.

>>14363293
>And I would say it does them in a better, more fitting way to be honest, especially if post Zeta Part II the conflict moved beyond the Earthsphere to the Marsphere or inner systems, since it'd mean making the same mistakes in a new theater, rather than the same mistakes in the same theater - which would show that even when things moved on to be a new place, people made the same mistakes for the same reasons. Which, to me, is more interesting.

I agree that this would have been a nice way to go.

Anything from Tomino or Bandai in terms of supporting its legitimacy ? A random blog in moon and a claim that it is in a source book we don't have access to isn't much to go off.

> and Char repeating his own mistakes in a different manner by using violence to enact his will on the Federation Heads and Haman at the very least

What is that repeating for Char though ? Using violence to enforce one's will is a bit too vague to call a thematic repeat, thats just a basic facet of all human life. His mistake in 0079 was'nt trying to force his will on people, his attempts to assassinate the Zabis so to do this were a good thing. His failure was in his obsession with his personal rivalry with Amuro and causing Lalah's death by bringing her into combat against him. His failure in Zeta was'nt trying to change the world according to his will, all the protagonists were on board with that, and the audience was meant to be as well. Char's issues in Zeta was things like being a bad role model for Katz and letting his personal vendetta against Haman get in the way of Aeug business. The continuity of Char and him repeating his errors is cut off unless he is letting his personal demons get in the way of his larger goals ( his obsession with Amuro, his disdain for Haman, his inability to let go of Lalah).

>>14363960
What's the name of the song that plays in the tv version of this scene? The one with the piano.

This is my favourite scene in Gundam.

>>14364703
I think you can find it as Ima Wa Oyasumi. There is a few versions of it.

>>14364667

> A random blog in moon and a claim that it is in a source book we don't have access to isn't much to go off.

That's as much as we have access to for a lot of fluff anon. Tomino never really talks about these things and that book is a Bandai book, so that's their input on the matter. If you don't want to believe it because you can't access it, then you'll have to disbelieve a lot of stuff I suppose.

> What is Char repeating though.

Well for one he's still obsessed with Haman and while he works for her he's only doing so so he can kill her going by the outline, and do so in a manner that goes against Judau's wishes. And by extension the wishes of the remnants of the A.E.U.G. since the White Base is it by that point even in normal ZZ.

The continuity of Char repeating his mistakes in causing the death of a newtype might be gone, but I think it's a small price to pay for a more interesting story and a much more interesting outcome (conflict moves on to a new frontier). That said, it is only a vague outline and if it had come to fruition there is the possibility he'd have done more that wasn't outlined there to continue repeating mistakes. I doubt it, since his role is small going by that - but if Glemy is based on him, and Glemy had the Purus, it's possible I suppose.

That said, I'll always be sad Judau didn't cause people to move off Earth and then leave for Mars out of disgust. I like the idea he became the Degwin for a new frontier and the next series after Zeta Part II would have started with him leading a revolution for Martian rights and indepedence before someone kills him to try and usurp the movement or silence it.

How much of it is themes and how much of it is just Tomino going through the motions? A lot of the plot points in Gundam are uncannily reoccurring, like his hatred of divorce.

>>14364734
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mKLZyoqO_w
Holy fuck thanks anon, I've been looking forever

>>14364592

Not that anon, but I'm pretty sure he's picking on the central conceit, not the wording. And I agree with him. Saying that in sci-fi author skill is inversely proportional to a work's value would imply that guys like Asimov, Bester and Clarke are either bad writers or had bad books. Neither of which I imagine you'll find much support for.

>>14363592
They travel through memory, not time. There's a pretty enormous difference.

>>14364805

Yeah, I'm not really keen on considering things outside of what is actually animated when considering the original Gundam saga. I mean, it exists and if it is a Bandai book then it should be legit, that's fine. I don't really see it as something negative about CCA though, which was what this thread was originally about, CCA could have also been replaced with a Gundam series written with the cinematic mastery of someone like Ingmar Bergman in some other possible world, it does'nt make CCA any worse. Judau still leaves earth sphere at the end of ZZ anyways. Tomino just didn't follow him in the animated works after that, and I'm fine with that, the whole cast of ZZ seemed really boring after dealing with the Zeta cast, and a new geographical setting only matters as much as what you do with it. I think Z part II would have been better than ZZ, but not worth being denied CCA for.

>Well for one he's still obsessed with Haman and while he works for her he's only doing so so he can kill her going by the outline, and do so in a manner that goes against Judau's wishes.

I thought the point was infiltrating Neo Zeon so to take it down from the inside, not just to kill Haman. Char could have pulled that off the first time he gained her confidence, he wouldn't have to work with her for so much of the series. It also does'nt fit unless Char is shown to frustrate his own grander goals due to his petty personal stuff, which isn't really clearly expressed here. It does'nt seem as nearly as great as a personal demon ruining Char's plans. I mean, Char really did lose because he let his ego get in the way and gave Amuro help on his machine so they could fight equally, which caused Char to fail since Amuro was a bit better than he was at MS combat. The theme of Char's grander and more personal inclinations clashing with each other and causing the former to fail is really explicit in CCA like it is in 0079 and Zeta.

>>14365971

Well I don't consider it canon or anything and it doesn't really affect my opinion of CCA - I just prefer that outline to what actually happened. I always found CCA itself to be unsatisfying on a story level, and that just give me a reason why I guess. The film itself is fine, and I said so in my first post. I can't think of any major issues with it, only nitpicks. I'll never consider it more than decent though because it does nothing for me as a story or character piece. The film's only really highlight to me is Axis Shock - which is a strong ending to an otherwise kind of boring film.

Also, while Judau does leave the Earthsphere for Jupiter in ZZ as is, he doesn't inspire other people to leave Earth - a move that'd render any squabbles up till that point moot, since it's hard to fight over the Earth Federation and Lagrangian Independence when Earth is no longer the ruling force.

> Char could have pulled that off the first time he gained her trust

He doesn't because he wants to train Judau according to the outline. He still kills the EF heads and Haman against Judau's wishes though. Like I said, he might not get in the way of his own grander goals here, but Haman almost certainly does, so while the continuity of Char doing so is lost, the continuity of doing so itself isn't - and other people almost certainly do it anyways. And even if they didn't, I'm happy to lose that for a more interesting setting, because I just didn't find Char's arc that compelling at the end of the day.

>>14365501
What I said was a gross overexaggeration of course.
Asimov, Bester and Clarke are good but none of them would get a Nobel price for literature.
Clarke is mostly a-ok but he is one of these super dry hard sci-fi sort of guys and you can tell by his writing that being one is the utmost priority to him.
You are trying to say Asimov is a good writer? His writing style is high-school newspaper tier. His plots and characters are so bland, generic and see-through. But this doesn't matter. For him the most important thing is to get his message trough and when he does it comes on strongly and clearly. Many times I have went through his novels thinking " This is such tripe!" only to feel ashamed at the end.
Bester. His stuff reads like a dime novel. He is sensational, silly , erratic, his characters are stupid comic exaggerations. And he just happens to be pretty good at what he does. He has something to say.
My personal favorite is PKD but I don't think anyone would argue that he is a good writer. His stuff mostly makes no sense but he is so much himself.
Then there is for example Heinlein. He is so calculated and self-indulgent but so honest in his /pol/ bullshit that I can't help but like him.
Sturgeon is incredibly clumsy but also sincere etc. etc.

See. There is a pattern. The most important things about sci-fi and ,well, about any artist in general are purity and vision.
For example one of the greatest classics, Dune, is so badly written that I passionately hated it for some fifteen years. Only recently have I been able to put aside my prejudice and see in it this purity and vision I was talking about.
Of course there are many good sci-fi authors that have both of these and are still pretty damn neat writers. But the more you concentrate on form the more you lose track of those other things that are actually important. And then there is just something more charming, more "pure" in a raw, unpolished idea.This is what I meant by "inversely proportional".

>>14366858
I see what you mean.
I feel like you've been taken in and you've come to the wrong party.
It's normal being interested in the ideas behind the setting. The grand scheme of things, so to say. Stuff that deals with politics, technology philosophy, ethics, you know, those more abstract high-minded things. They seem to be of inherent importance when you take into account the genre and the premise of the story.
And it's easy to understand why someone who frequents /m/ i.e. is more likely to be techie minded and functionally oriented would be more interested in things like that.
Well, Tomino himself is the kind of person that finds these kinds of things important otherwise he wouldn't be writing about them. But at the end of the day they are just tools not an end for him. He is a humanist. He cares about humans. If he writes about war it's because in conflict humans show their true colors. He wants to find and answer to the question "Why do they do the things they do?" and there isn't many authors that understand and are able to convey human nature as well as he does.
His philosophy is not high level. He goes down to the basics. He explores the intensity and complexity of human relationships on a personal level but without the sentimentality other writers tend to fall into (which is why many people find him hard to understand). His core ideas have more to do with biology and psychology that with any of those things I listed earlier.
There is nothing wrong with being more of an abstract thinker or a high-minded individualist but understanding yourself is probably more important than anything if you want to be able to live with yourself.
If you are a human being then what Tomino writes about applies to you and you should try to understand.
CCA is his most complex and one of his best (to me THE best) and and most authentic( though probably not THE most authentic) works. It's here that his character come closest to reality.

>>14367029

I don't feel like I've been taken in at least. I really enjoy the setting of UC, even I don't think it developed in a particularly interesting way and I find it a bit disappointing (if understandable) that Tomino keeps hitting the reset button. 0079 and Victory are good shows, even if neither are my favorite and Turn-A is one of my favorite shows (though not really UC in theme or setting). I also don't think Char or CCA is the height of his character work or the character closest to reality. Not even in UC Gundam. I think Reccoa is a better example of a character brought low by her own issues, even just sticking to tragic stuff in UC. Her emotional desire to be appreciated as a woman and a person instead of just a soldier for once in her life causing her to join and help people she knew intellectually were using her and doing bad stuff but occasionally treated her nice is I think a very realistic and interesting bit of character drama. It's shitty, but it does happen, because people are hungry for appreciation and recognition. Even fake appreciation. Even when it involves doing bad stuff.

>>14368164
Zeta is also very good in that aspect. Not all, but most of the characters are pretty interesting and have realistic struggles. I agree with what you said about Reccoa. Just remember that Char is also a man and he also has problems of this variety.
In the Reccoa vs Char conflict I tend to be biased on his side because I am the type of person who usually ends up being on the receiving end of the "You are so insensitive and self-centered" rant. It's not very pleasant when you feel you've been going out of your way to be nice and you still get this sort of crap. People are just different and they all have their issues.
CCA is pretty dense and layered. It's even more obscure in it's dialogue and presentation than Zeta. It's kind of hard to get on first watch. A lot of Tomino stuff is like that but CCA is the worst of the lot. The dry tone, the fast pace and you are constantly being fed all sorts of contradictory information. It's just overwhelming. I guess the biggest problem in the end is dealing with all this contradictory information. People can't always sort it out properly because they find it hard to relate to the characters.

>>14366912
Depends on what you want from a book. I read them for an entertaining story.

No Nobel prize for literature has ever gone to anything that you'd actually want to read for fun.

Last sci fi I read was Yukikaze. I had a great time but sure it ain't literature.

>>14368436
Sci-fi is serious business!

File: maxresdefault.jpg (171KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

171KB, 1920x1080px

DOMOYO

>>14361827
It was still universally liked up until late '11. Then the mass Zeta shitposting began.

>>14361265
>This is my second thread on /m/ in the 11 years I've been on 4chan
>post pic from tumblr
hello newfaggot

>>14371729

False. It hasn't been universally liked at least since its been subbed.