Macross Zero

>>14327413
It makes sense later on.

>>14327457

But I watched it all... she just gets worse and worse. In fact the reveal that she kickstarted everything in the first place by giving evil nihilist scientist cripple man her blood just shows she's also a huge hypocrite and the weakest shit on the island.

>>14327460

Dude what do you think? All people are made of Iron? She's mad BECAUSE she did the same shit, because she knows first hand how shit can go south.

For fuck's sake, learn what actual hypocrisy is

>>14327460
To be fair, she was a little kid and didn't know what the fuck she was doing. Plus it's more likely that he distracted her with the gift to take her blood, rather than her willingly giving it to him.

That being said, it was still a pants-on-head retarded OVA that added birdmen and retconned Valkyrie development for no fucking reason at all. Even bringing Roy in was pointless as all hell for all that he contributed.

>>14327476

Then why did she give up so quickly when everyone was willing to sell their blood for juice and return to seething passive-aggressively?

She's just a dumb bitch who goes "muh Kaduns" when she was the first one who failed. And instead of admitting she failed and using it she represses it and just goes apeshit and is a cunt to everybody else. She's like an old fart who had fun as a kid but now she's old and wants to ruin fun for everyone else. She's simultaneously incredibly stubborn and incredibly weak willed and jumps to conclusions all the fucking time, and almost kills everyone at the end because of it.

Literally the only reason to like her is she's got great tits.

>>14327480
>retconned Valkyrie development
VF-0s and SV-51s are great, fight me.

If Macross Zero would be about the war and not about annoying yet sexy island girls keeping secrets of protoculture, then the show would be so much better.

>>14327497

Mao wasn't that annoying though. It was really just Sara.

>>14327500
Yet Sara is sexier. And this dissonance with my ideal makes me even angrier than I should be. I haven't hated any show as hard as Zero.

>>14327484
>She's like an old fart who had fun as a kid but now she's old and wants to ruin fun for everyone else.

>Sara is John Lithgow from Footloose

Wait, I am about to start this show, and it is NOT about the Unification Wars at all?

>>14327621

It is about a guy who is fighting in the Unification Wars but instead of fighting in them he argues with some autistic native girl on an island while UN./Anti-UN forces fight around that island for a bird head.

>>14327624

Man, coming right out of Plus and into this shit is going to be a complete 180.

>>14327508
>Yet Sara is sexier.
Is she?

>>14327632
Plus and Zero aren't supposed to be similar in any way

>>14327649

Yeah I know, but I recently finished Plus after watching the entire Macross 7 saga (OVAs, movie, Encore, and extra clips included). Guess I should have done Plus before 7.

>>14327649
Yes, Sara is sexier than Mao. But she's terrible at accepting the benefits of modern civilisation.

Sara is only sexier than Mao because Mao is barely a teenager. Give it a few years.

>>14327678
Like contraception?

>>14327685

Like electricity and running water.

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>>14327678
>Yes, Sara is sexier than Mao
But is she really?

>>14327694
Yeah, I guess you'll need that afterwards too.

Mao would be a lot more openminded towards new things than Sara. Like you could probably put it in her butt.

>>14327497
Is this the new "All Macross should be like Plus and Robotech which totally had nothing to do with idols amirite"

>>14327727
I wonder what the Birdman would have to say about that.

>>14327761

It's more like Macross Zero is not very good.

>>14327765
Except what was said was nothing about it being bad, just not being what you want.

>>14327761
Is this some new meme? Whenever someone doesn't like a Macross installment they're automatically a Robotechfag?

>>14327778

The characters are unlikable and shallow.
The musical angle is largely ignored for a lot of shit about kaduns and birdmen.
It introduces a birdman, which was 100% pointless.
Literally nothing that happened in Zero affected or explained anything that happens in any other Macross series, you could excise it completely and nothing would change.
Roy Fokker is in there but is used so generically he could have been anyone.
A large-scale war is introduced and then essentially dropped because muh birdman. There is no conclusion to the central conflict shown, because muh birdman.

The whole thing was like the Unicorn of Macross. It looks beautiful and has great designs, but then is wasted on a shit romance between two bland MCs with dumb decisions made all around, culminating in a great big non-ending. Honestly feels like the VF-0 and SV-51 were designed first and then they thought "wow these are too sick to not use, but we've got nothing to use them in" so they threw together this beautifully boring mess of a story about fucking islanders and the birdman and why can't we all just get along.

That's why it's shit.

Would put my benis in Sara and Mao though.

You can tell how bad something is when nobody can give a good reason why a character acts the way they do or why its acceptable.

>>14327790
>but then is wasted on a shit romance between two bland MCs with dumb decisions made all around
I thought the romance wasn't all that bad

>>14327792
Why?

>>14327790
It's beeen so long since I watched it, I barely remember much. But I remember it being good, so you're wrong!

>>14327791
There's nothing to defend if something bothers you and not me? Just a difference of perspective.

>>14327799

Well it wasn't. It was shit. It was dog shit. The only reason you think it's good is because you are weak-minded and were probably distracted by the plane fights. But you know what? Even the plane fights were annoying to me at the end. Like that Russian cunt or whoever in the pink VF who just would not fuck off. So when she was dogging Shin later on I was just thinking "fuck off already" because all the fights were the same, Shin getting dogged by that cunt and Fokker getting dogged by that other Russian who we don't give a shit about.

>>14327804
It was my first macross series way back, frontier didn't even exist then.

>>14327813
>it was my first

That's why you like it, asshole. Not because it's good.

>>14327817
And you only don't like it because you've watched it so late? That's just how growing up is, everything becomes shitty.

>>14327823

Retard, you don't even remember it.
I rewatched Plus recently with a friend and you know what? It was still good. I rewatched DYRL a few years ago. It was still good. Maybe Zero is just shit, and you don't even fucking remember it, so all you have is wisps of nostalgia. Maybe you're wrong. Maybe if you rewatched it now, when you're not 14 anymore, you would understand that.

I remember thinking it was okay. It had at the game really nice action scenes for being CG, probably hasn't aged that well though if I rewatch it. So a weaker entry, but nothing to get raging over I think

>>14327831
"When you're not 14 anymore", so you just admitted my point, old people hate everything.

>>14327839

Except there are a lot of longtime Macross fans, including myself, who are enjoying Delta. And there are tons of old farts like me who love super robot shows and still watch tokusatsu and enjoyed the first season of Build Fighters. So no, old people don't hate fun, it's more like when you get older your standards improve and you need more than just some plane fights to get it up. GJ retard.

>>14327790
At least Unicorn ended with an appreciable message to the viewer.

Zero is like "fuck you! Everyone gets a bad ending, no nice things for anyone!"

>>14327846
>Except there are a lot of longtime Macross fans, including myself, who are enjoying Delta.
Oh wait you're serious

>>14327848
>Zero is like "fuck you! Everyone gets a bad ending, no nice things for anyone!"
I don't care. Everyone there was an unlikable asshole anyways

>>14327855

Even Mao?

>>14327793
It didn't bother me

>>14327839
No, old people just have less tolerance for bullshit. They still enjoy good things.

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>>14327790
100% agree.

>>14328003
Keep telling this yourself old person! Until the number of the stuff you enjoy gradually goes from 10, to 5, to 3, to..ZERO

>>14327831
>Plus
>Good
Please, Plus is exactly the same as Zero.
>It looks beautiful and has great designs, but then is wasted on a shit romance between two bland MCs with dumb decisions made all around, culminating in a great big non-ending.
Just replace the birdman shit with selective amnesia and mass hypnotism.
>The only reason you think it's good is because you are weak-minded and were probably distracted by the plane fights.

>>14328735

Except Isamu is awesome and Myung is far more understandable and sympathetic than Sara, so fuck off.

>>14329146
As is Guld once he recovers from his zentradi-heritage-induced insanity.

Or maybe just I have a softspot for self sacrificers.

Plus was also far more entertaining. Isamu and Guld's rivalry was not only the setup for sick plane fights, but also the central conflict in the story and a means of developing their characters. The central conflict in Zero on the other hand was the Unification Wars, which basically got lip service despite happening right on the island. And Plus, with its virtual idol and strong love triangle, felt a lot more like Macross than whatever the fuck Zero was.

Seriously, Zero a shit.

>>14327790
To be fair, I think Kawamori was still in his green stint from Arjuna

I only liked Plus for it's fights. The plot and characters sucked, but the fights were great

>>14329146
>and Myung is far more understandable and sympathetic than Sara
Nobody gives a shit about Myung

I'm not saying people care about Sara that much either but shit, I don't think people even know Myung exists

>>14327699

Well, she's not a deformed freak with two left feet, so that should be an obvious yes.

Zero was about the preservation of Culture.
>amazing dogfigt
>amazing single frenchy song
>Muh triangle
>muh character devellopement
>bad ending
It's good to Okay

>>14330256
>Zero was about the preservation of Culture.
for at least one episode, before deciding to throw out the script for a brand new one each volume.

>>14327413
You get used to it.

How come no one talks about the real hottest girl in Zero: Roy's girlfriend?

>>14332476
She wasn't particularly hot. Not very memorable either

>>14332476
She was bland and she wore glasses of awful design.
I feel sorry for her. She's like a Nanai of Macross franchise.

anyone have the weed kawamori edit?

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>>14334836

>>14327823
Different anon but Idk about that senpai. I rewatched igpx and g gundam years after originally watching them and i appreciate them more. Though my rewatching of macross shows i still am working on 7 and i slept through frontier as well as zero.
>>14328735
Wasn't the hypnotism just regular protoculture. Wait is there much of a difference in the the movie and ova.
>>14329283
he made that, i could barely get through the second ep. Tell me does it hit divergence eve levels of bad with the talking about literally nothing of importance in their info dumps of dialogue.

>>14327497
IMO they should have kept the sexy island parts but dumped the annoying part. I'll be damned if I don't love some well-endowed brown girls.

>>14327413

Looks like she's about to do some Nanto Sei Ken on this bitch

It'd be pretty cool if they redid SDF: Macross with modern animation and CG, and redid the story so it fits with Zero better.

>>14329264

Plus was a great carry on from SDF with the Zentradi and Human integration. Isamu trying to keep the peace about Gulds rage was pretty good, as well as the general guy ripping up the report on Guld simply because he's Zentradi and it's still too soon after integration for this to get out.

That was my take on some of the actions people took, that it was mostly being played from that perspective of maintaining the peace between both species.

>>14336447

SDF has pretty much been made timeless by DYRL. Any attempt to redo it would be shat on so hard by everyone. Kawamori would probably get burned in effigy.

>>14329264

I don't agree. The Unification Wars was the setting for the show, not the central conflict - much like Project Supernova was the setting for Plus, not the central conflict. The central conflict of Zero was culture clash, between the older traditionalism and animism of the Mayan people and the technology and atheism of the more familiar modern technology.

With Kawamori pretty obviously favoring the Mayan stuff, hence why it was constantly presented in such a positive light. While the UN was presented as almost a bad guy in it's own right with scenes like the Monster aiming for the Birdman and planes regularly harassing the Mayan people by flying by or taking off/landing near them and blowing them out of it.

I don't think it was about the preservation of culture as one anon said though, but about culture clash, which is a much broader topic and encompasses preservation of culture but isn't entirely defined by it.

>>14336468
Not gonna argue with you, though we got a glimpse of what a redone SDF would look like due to the pachinko shorts that were made a while ago and i'd be lying if my heart doesn't skip a beat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9CW4K0RJKA

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I just finished Zero for the first time myself. Couldn't stand a moment of it, and it wasn't even just because it's "not muh Macross." I hated every character, the plot went nowhere and meant nothing, and I'm very happy knowing that everyone in the cast who survived would go on to be nuked from orbit by the Zentraedi in a few years.

>>14337258
macross really does itself best when it's fun

>>14337108
>cg looks better than delta

ok, it's not 'better', but it looks much less jarring when placed next to 2d characters.

I like how the central love triangle had literally no chemistry between the three people involved in it and Mao was a babby anyway so she had no fucking shot whatsoever. If it didn't have the Macross name on it I don't think anyone would think it was like Macross at all.

>>14327497
AND WE

>>14340652
ALL FLOAT

>>14340667
ON OK

>>14340617
I didn't even acknowledge it as a triangle.
Mao didn't seem to have any remotely serious feelings towards Shin and Shin didn't seem to express any emotion towards Mao at any point

>Mao was a babby anyway
I wish I could agree with you on that one, but then so was Mylene

>>14343725

Despite what people say Marcross doesn't really seem to do love triangles all that much. Basara never paid Mylene any attention, Myung (or Sharon) never wanted Guld, Mao was never in any consideration and Ranka was always a third wheel at best. It's really just the original, II and now maybe Delta that'll have done it - depending on how things pan out.

>>14344403
Isn't Guld heavily implied to have slept with Myung?

>>14344403
just because one part is gonna win, doesn't mean a triangle is not a triangle.

>>14344403
I don't think you know how a triangle works

>>14344461

He tried to rape her at least, she spends the whole show pining for Isamu though. She shows no real interest in Guld during the actual story.

>>14344462

It's not a triangle if one leg isn't interested in two others. Unless you think having a crush on a celebrity who's dating someone makes it a love triangle. Just because they don't know you exist and wouldn't care even if they did doesn't mean it doesn't count right?

A love triangle has to have at least one body that's caught choosing between the other two - otherwise one of them is just unrequited love. Basara didn't care about Mylene's crush, Shin didn't care about Mao's, Myung never wanted Guld within the story and Alto always saw Ranka as a little sister more than a possible love interest.

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>>14344403

>>14344533
>A love triangle has to have at least one body that's caught choosing between the other two - otherwise one of them is just unrequited love.
No it doesn't. A love triangle just needs three people in it. It can be girl->boy->girl easily with one side just not being requited.

It just means one side just didn't have a chance at all

>>14344403
>myung never wanted guld

pretty sure in the movies they bone. you can say this was just physical, and sharon, as an expression of myung's feelings, was always attracted to isamu, but there is tension there.

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>>14344403
A love triangle doesn't mean mutual attraction from 1 to 2 others, it's any sort of love story with 3 people. They might all love each other unrequited, they may love one that loves the other who then loves the first one back.

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I don't remember this series very well, but I can't say I hate it any bit as much as the rest of you. I liked the mech designs.

>>14327413
she just want the D.

>>14327413
she's supposed to be, you idiot.

>>14344732
>8
kek

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>>14344768
That's a true love triangle, like the one team SRX had.
Macross should try that sometime.

Best macross series

>>14344783
Macross is always gonna be doing unconditional love as long a Kawamori controls the franchise because he's a new age cuck.

Also it's hard to make dramatic writing out of people who love each other.

Honestly the romance between Shin and Sara was so forced it may be the worst in the history of the franchise, maybe one of the worst in all mecha.

>>14344732
Which of these has the macross triangles been, respectively?

>>14344912
>unconditional

you meant unrequited, didn't you?

>>14344929
SDF was 7, Plus was 4, 7 was 10 and Zero was none of them since Mao was not even a part of the equation. Haven't seen the rest

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>>14344944
7 was more like 9.

>>14344912
>Macross is always gonna be doing unconditional love as long a Kawamori controls the franchise because he's a new age cuck.
Actually, according to that interview with Forbes, Kawamori didn't want to have a love triangle in Delta but the sponsors inisisted on it. He also said in another interview that Macross has always been about music, mecha and the love triangle, however because he likes to do different things with each series, he's always wanted to remove one of them, considering how much he likes mecha and music, it's pretty clear it's the love triangle

http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2016/05/28/shoji-kawamori-on-macross-delta-and-his-hopes-for-the-series/#3bd8602d1210
“As you’d expect, the series came about based around the three main aspects that define Macross; songs, battles and a love triangle type of relationship. I normally ask the sponsors if I can drop one but they always ask to include all three.”

Each time I plan for a new Macross series, I always think that it could be about time to remove one of the three elements, such as the love triangle relationship, but the sponsor always says no (laughs).”

There's also that other interview where Kawamori talks about the original idea for Delta where it sounded like there wouldn't be a triangle but it got reworked. What I'm trying to say is, he really only keeps it in because it gets attention.

>>14344944
But SDF was 10 and 7 was 5.

Frontier was 4 (or 11 if you believe /u/, but nobody pays any attention to their insane ramblings).

>>14344953
>7
Mylene explicitly says she likes Basara and Gamlin equally in one of the last episodes

>SDF
The entire point of the last arc was that both Minmay and Misa had requited feelings for Hikaru and he had to choose.

>>14344983
In the last arc, sure, but for the vast majority of the series Minmay didn't give much of a fuck about Hikaru.

>>14344938
Yes I fucked up.

>>14344999
Yeah but that doesn't change that she eventually did

>>14344929
SDF/DYRL is a 7, Plus is a 3, Seven is a 1, Frontier is a 3?

>>14344461
>Isn't Guld heavily implied to have slept with Myung?

They did.

>>14344929
I'd actually argue that DYRL is a 4 because Hikaru just didn't seem to fall for Minmay the way he did in the show. She still feel for him though