The Stoic Protagonist

Stoic protags are only interesting when they're BADASS.

Killy, Chirico, that kind of character.

It's hard to comment on Mika since he didn't even start his arc yet.

I mean assuming he ever gets one you never know with Okada running the show.

>>14305678
Its pretty bad when for an MC when they don't have a Character arc within the first half of the series. Even Setsuna had some characterization beyond the first few episodes.

I'm not a fan of stoic protagonists because they so often come off like they lack any sort of investment in the events surrounding them. And if they don't care, why should I?

It takes some doing to pull one off correctly. Chirico was done well because almost every conflict he got into he did of his own accord. Someone like Setsuna, on the other hand, seemed a lot more like a living plot device or a weapon than a character with actual emotions or ideas except when either Ali or Marina was onscreen. He seemed like he existed only to bounce off of those two and wreck whatever shit the plot needed him to wreck. He at least got a little better in the second season with all the counseling he gave Saji, although I didn't really understand what caused him to do that.

Sosuke is pretty good because he's constantly put in situations that test his stoicism, and he more often than not fails the test, which is entertaining to watch.

>>14305654
Mika and Inaho are not the same character type though. Mika is genuinely fucked up in the head, whereas Inaho is just autistic. Neither of them are truly "stoic".

>>14305727
Obviously they are not the same character. Mika can barely interact with others where as Inaho can. I am merely grouping them together under one term because they both address a complaint I observed.

>>14305751
Work on your reading comprehension. I'm saying they don't belong under that one term you're addressing.

WHAT MATTERS IS BEING TOUGH AND NOT LOSING TRACK OF HIS GOAL.

Heero had everything he needed to be a fucking badass: he was unkillable, good at everything, super tough, he had a clear, defined goal AND he looked good in spats. Basically a more handsome John Rambo.

I would have loved watching four entire seasons of just him fixing his own broken bones, jumping from buildings and issuing death threats to helpless women. That would have been awesome.

But then, magical bullshit writing forced him to stop being a badass and fall in love with some dumb chick. And THEN they made his goal completely irrelevant.

>>14305765
>stoic: a person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining.

I am pretty sure Mika and Inaho do this even in the most loose definition of stoic.

>>14305718
>although I didn't really understand what caused him to do that.
The fact that Lockon forgave him was the starting point of Setsuna changing. Then all the things that happened up to the end of S1 and the final catalyst was Lockon's death.

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>>14305678
He isn't going to get one because Kudelia is the real protagonist of the show. She gets the most character moments and development and is the driving force of the plot. The whole show is about her finding a new family and fitting into it after getting sold out by her father. Mika is only even in the show to attract edgelords and pilot the gundam.

I dislike the bait and switch but that and the focus on less fights and more character oriented episodes are both why I've been having a blast with the show.

>>14305786
Still, I never really got the sense that he cared about Saji in particular until Saji became the pilot of his backpack. And then Setsuna was suddenly as helpful as you could expect him to be.

>>14305678
>It's hard to comment on Mika since he didn't even start his arc yet.
He didn't start his arc halfway through the show?

>>14305654
>A/Z
>popular

>>14305718
>although I didn't really understand what caused him to do that.
the gap between season 1 and 2 was like four years. He literally grew up.

>>14305796
>protagonist
>never pilots anything
pick one

>>14305825
It has been done before. Al from 0080.

>>14305838
Bernie got a character arc though.

>>14305825
Gais, Christine Mackenzie is totally the protagonist of War in the Pocket, not Al. She pilots the Gundam so she has to be the main character!

>>14305851
From beginning to end it was about Al's experience and how he changed. First episode begins with him not caring about the horrors of war and by the end he is an emotional wreck.

>>14305654
If your protagonists seems uninterested on what's going on in the show why would i be interested in him?
Also most of the time are written as "autistic" and mostly annoying.
The fact that you are stoic doesnt mean you cant act normally. As in matter of fact they always act stoic both in front of other characters but in front of the viewer as well. That often leads to no characterization and no development either with the characters going nowhere. If you dont show the character's conflict then there's no point in me caring about them.
As a side effect most of the times the stoic character ends up being undefeated, super strong and with the whole cold attitude going on comes off as edgy, because who can stay calm after losing.
A stoic character can be interesting but mostly ends ups annoying because apparently stoic ends up defining their whole character and stoic = unexpressive/emotionless/cold logic
Mika and Eggs are shit along with their shows

>>14305797
He didnt care. Then the first few episode of s2 happened. Saji and Setsuna fought about CB, the suffering they caused to himself and Louise just like Lockon in s1. This time however Setsuna has grown up and defended the cause he believed in and made Saji confront his own "self-centered" state of mind. After all that Saji stayed onboard of Ptolemy and learned more about CB from asking the rest of the crew. Then he called A-Laws and was confronted with the reality of his actions as well with the state of the world. Seeking redemption Saji pilots the 0 raiser. During the whole time before getting in the 0 raiser and after that Saji lived on board the Ptolemy. He lived there, interacted with the crew, got advice from it and became part of it, part of Setsuna's family. Saji grew close to them and so did Setsuna to Saji as he acknowledged his will and actions for redemption.

>>14305851
>>14305862
Bernie is the protagonist, Al is the audience surrogate.

>>14305796
Are you fucking trolling? Kudelia is garbage. Her "development" is just recycling the same dilemmas "boohoo I'm so useless" constantly.

>>14305654
According to an interview they wrote Mika with what they(Okada/Nagai) believe a bonafide genius would act like. I had no idea Mika was supposed to be a genius type character like Inaho from watching the show.

>Are these protagonists really more appealing than the emotional types we had in the past like Shinji, Amuro, and their progeny?
It all comes down to how they are written for me. Mika and Inaho were basically blank slates so they weren't very interesting in my opinion.

>What makes them appealing or not? Characterization? Different character arcs?

Despite my tastes, I see people state they like them for their lack of whining, frank comments/behaviour, lack of hesitation and idealism.

>>14306137
>Mika
>a genius

Well, I'll say that he does have the signs of being a chess wunderkind sort of person. He's got a talent for breaking down the enemy's play strategy and countering it swiftly and efficiently, though it's hard to say where the line between genius and patience lies when it comes to people who can act cool and think things through under pressure. Most people would find that to be an impressive ability (the faster, the more impressive), but others might find it nothing special.

Kid could probably play a mean game of Shogi, anyway. He'd probably like it more than chess because of the capture->recruit rule, too.

>>14306137
I can see Mika as a genius in one of those "autistic for only one specific thing" kind of way

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Mika is pretty interesting in parts of IBO.

The show is pretty unambiguous on the fact that there's something fundamentally wrong with the guy after being a child soldier for all his life.
Killing is part of his nature.

>>14306312
But it doesn't go anywhere with it. He had the exact same character moment in, like, episode 2 or something when he executed a bunch of guys, then had a flashback to murdering some guy for Orga when they were kids. The show starts and ends exactly the same.

>>14306272
But what thing? He doesn't have a big interest in anything.

>>14306312
Kind of reminds me of kamille at the end of Zeta, when he starts freaking out Fa with all his talk of killing

>>14307100
he's saying he's maybe an autistic savant at mobile suit fighting

>>14305654
>the lack of stoic protagonists
who is chilico
who is heero
who is sousuke
who is setsuna

Don't know about Mikazuki since I didn't watch IBO but this sort of character is great if they're written well, which is what A/Z guy wasn't.

>>14307513
>last 10 years

Were talking about modern anime.

>>14307513
Mikazuki makes the A/Z guy seem well written by comparison.

>>14305654
The Stoic Protagonist, is in my opinion the worst type of character there is. I've never ever hated an emotional invested main character in my chinese robot cartoons and I think being able to relate to the MC is what makes him likeable.

Characters like Mika or Whatshisname from AZ are not only unrelateable but they are unrealistic. It constantly takes my out of it when I watch a character that is basicly not human but who drives the story on. I can't cheer for them, I can't relate to them and I really don't care about them at all.

I truly dislike these character types. And they ruin a series for me.

>>14305783
> Mika goes wide-eye/small-pupil murder-kill mode with Lafter when he finally catches her, only stopped by Orga cutting in
> Mika goes full-on hate/kill mode with Carta after Biscuit dies
> That imposing glare and speech he gives to Orga to get him going again
> Flagrantly engaging in social customs he has no familiarity with, without regard for their impact or following them up
> Flat out brushing off the one moment he started to regret killing, to smile and impale a guy on a giant katana
> "You're good to die~"

He's not stoic, he's a sociopath. That is, he DOES react, very violently, in the right circumstances, but he's so rarely in them there's few examples. Let not kid ourselves - Mika saw little to no use outside standing around with the same people almost the entire show. What few battles he got in he handled easily, in part because he had backup in every single one after Mars. What's more telling is that he's completely disconnected from his surroundings and shows no real regard for the impact of his actions. He's not autistic, because he does show a ready ability to communicate with people and understand them, but unless it's for some reason or there's some novelty that piques his interest, he routinely brushes things off as 'oh well'.

He's different from characters that are just quiet, but otherwise show a full range of emotions in the right setting. He isn't just 'shy buts open up to the right people', or 'just incredibly pragmatic and unflappable'. There's plenty of just flat normal, professional people in anime who might frown at most when things turn bad, not losing their cool but also not stonewalling any reaction whatsoever. 90% of the time Mika just plain isn't engaged with his surroundings on anything more than a video game level, and when he DOES become engaged, he's shown with a specifically homicidal expression and tone of voice. That's a little more than 'stoic'.

>>14305654
For me the based Stoic character of all time was Lucius Vorenus, and it works because it got Titus Pullo to counterbalance everything Vorenus done.

Not gonna lie I'm mildly looking forward to where they're going to take Mika's character in the 2nd season.

>>14307625
>disconnected from his surroundings and shows no real regard for the impact of his actions.

You know there's room there for some good development. Someone forces Mikazuki to consider the consequences to his actions, and while he continues to fight, he starts to question his own methods and worldview. Pair that up with him opening up to the world outside of war with things like learning how to read, and you could have an interesting character.

IBO has such a great setup, wasted.

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>>14307028
Well to be fair, he had some development in the sense that he warmed up to Kudelia and a few other people and learned a few things.
But I think everyone was expecting him to develop some kind of ethical code or something, yet he killed people just as nonchalantly in the beginning as in the end. He even admits to himself that he takes some pleasure in it.

I guess he's just the guy who drives the Gundam and not really more important than the other cast members. In the end it feels much more like it's Orga's and Kudelia's story than Mika's really.

>>14307513
The problem with Eggs is that there's actually a glimmer of a good character arc hidden in all the bullshit. As the show goes along and he endures more hardships with his comrades he occasionally defrosts, usually shown in his interactions with his sister or Asshime.
Meanwhile Slaine, who started out rather emotional and innocent, becomes harder and colder as he murders his way to the top of the foodchain.
That's what made the second season of A/Z kinda watchable until the downright insulting end. But in retrospective it's aggravating how much they missed the mark and how much shit they pulled, when they had a lot of chances to make it a genuinely compelling story.

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>>14305654
>Are these protagonists really more appealing than the emotional types we had in the past like Shinji, Amuro, and their progeny?

Stoic characters have to be done correctly for them to be worthwhile in lead roles. Mikazuki and Inaho are terrible examples. One is has no practical motivations of his own and the latter is an autistic Gary Stu. Neither of them can be sympathized with on a human level by the audience which makes it hard to care about them as characters. We get that they're supposed to be emotionally distant to the rest of the cast, but does that meant that they are not supposed to feel a certain way about anything? It gives the impression that the characters have no personal investment in the story and are just simply there as a walking talking plot device which is why stoic archetypes are generally bound to supporting roles rather than MCs.

There are right and wrong ways on doing it and it requires some fine tuning by the writers to get the right amount of emotional investment by the character. Too little and you get your Mikazukis and Inahos who are just sort of there. Too much and you end up with emo kid-tier edgelords like Cloud.

>>14307713
>he never played final fantasy 7

>>14307625
In my eyes, abandoning nearly any development (aside from literally one scene where he questions himself and the push for revenge after Biscuit) of Mika was one of the worst choices IBO made. I get that they have another season coming but they let the sociopath thing work to their advantage the whole way. Yeah, he has a boner for Atra's bracelet and hid it behind his back during the first execution. He knows he's fucked up. But nothing happens with it. The show could end right now and there's be no cliffhanger about Mika whatsoever. He had 0 arc. And it's not like anyone else had a ton of development either. Orga had some but Kudelia and Eugene had some hardly any more than, say, Kai or Beecha. They started with one gimmick then slowly transitioned into a more level-headed personality.

IBO, for what was supposed to be a character-focused Gundam, has some of the least character development in Gundam history, on par with fucking IGLOO or G-Savior, which shouldn't even be considered under normal circumstances. It sacrifices both character development and mecha action to create a big pot of unsatisfactivity, ultimately placing it below SEED (although not Destiny) in my eyes. And the worst part is that it could have been so easily saved with maybe 10 minutes of decent development scenes in those whole 26 episodes, but we're treated to exposition instead. Here's hoping season 2 will actually explore the characters, world, and themes.

>>14307684
It really is. It's only novel in the sense that it's one of the rare cases of seeing a callous MC remain callous. It's just as boring as the billionth dick MC make the heel-face turn halfway through to turn into the same old virtuous hero as ever.

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>>14307721
>Advent Children
>final fantasy 7

You guys keep rambling on about Mika and how Kudelia recycles shit, but I never see anyone address the guy who actually changed and was given screen time for basically every hurdle thrown at him, Orga.

The guy was challenged at every turn, and while he obviously keeps pushing forward in the end, you can see him changing quite a lot over the course of the season even if his goal stays the same. This is obviously mainly due to guys like Naze, but there's definitely signs.

That's at least, who I thought had the most character development. You could see how he was learning the ways of the world, how to deal with the pressures of an adult, having to decide when to cut your losses and when to gamble big (plot still makes him gamble big every damn time though duh but he at least had conflict).

The guy learns more than everyone in the show put together, and about the only thing I can complain about him is the episode where Biscuit died, that was his turn to have a really forced show of incompetence. After blowing up the trap for what's his face, he should have bailed the fuck out of there, he was just a liability and that ended up getting Biscuit killed.

If he at least took some shots at the enemy I'd be okay with it, but the guy literally just watched 5 meters away not moving not doing shit for ages, so as a viewer I couldn't even figure out what the flying fuck he was thinking.

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>>14307799
Agreed 100%, this is baiscally the story of Orga learning to become a true leader. He almost goes through all the beats of a classic hero's journey.

In the end Mika is just a secondary character.

>>14305654

It's a nice change, but it's a cyclical thing, Amuro and his contemporaries were bucking the trend of steely jawed stoics that were prevalent at the time, but then we got over-saturated by this archetype, so now it feels new and different to bring Stoicism back

>>14307830
There's Io who kinda doesn't fall into either though. A battle thrill junkie who is basically what would happen if Yazan was a main character of a side story in UC, only more bishi.

>>14307799
Nobody is talking about Orga because he has nothing to do with the subject of stoic archetypes as the MC.

>>14307858
Neither does Kudelia, but you see her being mentioned in this thread either way.

The best I can say about Mika is that I have no idea where they are going with him.

That's it.

>>14307809
>IBO
>Has the highest concentration of girls with spotlight time possibly in all Gundam
>Barely any fan service despite 99% of them coming from the slums where they were whores
>Dies First doesn't even come close to a single speck of shrapnel and may as well have plot armor
>Both Guts and Manwhore basically receive cosmetic physical damage across the entire series and strangely enough it's Mika who receives the permanent disability shit
>Guts is so meta he earns the 100 man killer title again in another series because he's stuck on mook duty while Mika fights Gundams

I'd argue Ein was fresh in how he couldn't even kill a single person despite the sheer gargantuan advantage over the likes of Soma and Laughter, but then I remembered that massive black piece of shit near the end of Gundam Age and realized that's probably who they designed Eins to be role wise.

>>14305805
A/Z was plenty popular with casuals (reddit, MAL forums, etc) up until first PVs for the second cour came out and showed Inaho alive.

They ate it up early on - writing by the UROBUTCHERRRRRRRRRRRR, the scenes where Mars attacked Earth in the first episode that gave it more balls than any Gundumb series, "it's about mind games and battle strategy first, mecha second", waifu shipping wars, etc.

>>14307891
there was plenty of fanservice, though

or are you only talking about the turbines

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>>14305654

>>14307625
> B-but he protects and cares about his friends. He wants to be a farmer. H-he kissed Kudelia. Surely it's more he has all these emotions he doesn't understand and not a sociopath.

The one thing I got out of Mika was how determined he was to get to his happy place. It doesn't matter what he has to do or who he has to kill, he wants that brighter future Orga promised him years ago and he'll get there. And when the show goes on about how Orga does more dangerous stuff to try and live up to Mika's expectations of him, especially this scene >>14306312 I was honestly hoping for something good to come of that after Biscuit died. It's not a healthy relationship whatsoever, and Mika is pushing his comrades into greater danger to get what he wants.

But season 1 ends with Tekkadan getting huge rewards with only faceless members dying. Nothing came of it.

But really, people going on about how Mika's much deeper got blindsided by shipping and how the show spend 20 episodes trying to paint Tekkadan as normal kids. To much build up for such an obvious twist, and nowhere near the payoff needed. And then they end the show with "they'll go back to being their normal selves." WTF?

>>14305654
Honestly I don't think it makes much sense for Mika to be the autistic little psycho that he is. I mean, I can accept that he has a hard edge because of his upbringing but he's clearly not a soldier nor forced to fight on a daily basis (before the series) so there's no reason for him to be so desensitized to killing as he is. A personality like Guts more realistically what I would expect.

>>14307690
>Eggs
>good character

Inaho is perhaps the most pointless character of the entire series, he has no character arc. His entire purpose is to make Slaine believe that Earth Side is his enemy, and win battles, and that's it. But he's not really necessary for the second purpose and the first just made the series especially stupid, by artificially extending the series. Eggs is just completely unnecessary.

>>14307898
>until first PVs for the second cour
Those same places loved that reveal and ate up the beginning of the 2nd cour until about 3-4 episodes in and even they began to think it was shit and drop off like flies. It was funny.

>>14307466
The writers do a terrible job of showing his interest then. There are few battles and outside of them he doesn't even think about it. He just eats that little snack or thinks about how cool Kudelia is.

>>14308826
On the other hand, Inaho never wastes our time angsting about something or screaming pointlessly. Inaho is always doing something. Usually it's something important like preparing for the next battle or increrasing the abilities of his eye.

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>>14307830
>Amuro
>0079
>Trend of steely jawed stoics
>Back in the 70s, the era of sideburns, Kouji Kabuto knockoffs, and Banjo Haran

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i would FUCK mika

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It's good if there's a compelling enough reason given for it. VOTOMS establishes early and often that Chirico isn't just some edgy soldierman, he's ridden with extreme PTSD and struggling to survive in a society that doesn't want him. His stoicism is played as a humanizing and emotive element instead of "HURR HE KILLS ALL THE BAD GUYS AND NEVER SMILES BECAUSE IT'S COOLER THAT WAY."

>>14309031
I'll imagine he'll be one doing the fucking.

>*the one

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>>14309031
He's got an eight pack. I don't blame you.

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>>14309131
I'm not entirely convinced he's not an android.

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>>14309142
> those seams

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>>14309150

>>14309070
n-no

i want to stick it in him

>>14308969
Which amounts to absolutely nothing because his character and presence in the story is still negligible at best. Yeah he participates in battles but very little of that is actually important, on top of that he's not interesting to watch, and his very survival actually lowered the quality of the writing. A/Z actually would have been better off without him.

>>14307900
Turbines, mainly. Kudelia was great but she didn't even wear a swim suit once did she? I think the most lewd parts was her sports wear.

Holding hands doesn't count cause that's hentai material.

>>14309440
At least he's not lazying about like Mika doing absolutely nothing in downtime.
This is a war. Participating in battle is a part of the story. That he spends his time doing things that help him be prepared for future battles is actually a good thing. The show was bad but not for this.

>>14309440
>Yeah he participates in battles but very little of that is actually important,

So the inexplicable survival of Asseylum, the deaths of half a dozen knights, and the rivalry between Inaho and Slaine is pointless? Because if you take Inaho out of the equation you basically don't have an anime. You've got Slaine mucking about.

>he's not interesting to watch,

I actually find his cold analytical style to be refreshing at worst and intriguing at best. Winning because of your brains is always a plus in my book.

>>14310442
But what about most of Tekkadan? Their shirtless piloting was nothing but fanservice.

For women.

>>14315000
Why is Inaho so much smarter than everyone else? Everyone else stands around and waits to die. Is Inaho a top grade student or something? Is he passionate about science? Did he read a lot of Wikipedia?

Oh. This thread again.

Why is Eggs the best?

>>14315117
Mostly, Inaho is always clearheaded in a fight so he thinks things out.

The old hands always fall back to their training and doctrine and the newbies are too nervous to do more than follow orders but Inaho focuses on what he can do so he carefully.

That and Inaho really is top of his class.It's mentioned in passing in the first episode about how Inko is trying exceptionally hard to exceed him.

>>14308930
His character is written not as an autist or a savant, but as someone who really only knows the one path they've walked down their entire life: kill the enemy before they kill you, fight and survive to tomorrow, violence is the universal problem solver, the strongest survive, etc.


For those looking for a character who changes and develops over the course of the show, it's disappointing to realize that Mikazuki is given to us largely pre-developed, leaving only an opportunity to analyze his characterization through the interactions he has with the rest of the cast (revealing quite a bit of depth to a character that could have been written off simply as Orga's mindless and ambitionless attack hound).

>>14315495
To be fair, Mika just isn't an introspective character. Interactions with other characters is the only way to develop him.

>>14305654
Mika wasn't stoic, he was devoid of anything.

>>14307522
Ledo from Gargantia would count as a stoic character archetype, right?

>>14315117
>>14315367

The real reason for Inaho being smarter than anyone else is because if he wasn't then he wouldn't be able to stand out. Inaho on his own already isn't really connect to the plot, he doesn't have a personality, and he's not interesting, so without making him a blatant self insert he'd be more pointless than he already is.

>>14310815
For a Main character however Inaho is pointless.

>>14315000
>So the inexplicable survival of Asseylum, the deaths of half a dozen knights, and the rivalry between Inaho and Slaine is pointless? Because if you take Inaho out of the equation you basically don't have an anime. You've got Slaine mucking about.
All things that other characters could have done, but only Inaho was allowed to do to give him a place in the story. Besides that the deaths of those counts didn't effect the story at all.The rivalry between Inaho and Slaine was pointless, Slaine didn't give a flying fuck about Inaho 95% of the time, and the "rivalry" really only existed for Inaho's benefit as a character not Slaine's, as a half-assed way of trying to connect Inaho to the story, didn't really work though. Actually if you take Inaho out of the story you get rid of a stupid character that has no purpose thus, getting rid of the stupider parts of A/Z. Besides that even the creators have said that Inaho was a last minute thought, they didn't even know what to do with him, and the story wasn't even about him, he wasn't the focus, so no if you get rid of him you still have plenty of story, just no self-insert.

>I actually find his cold analytical style to be refreshing at worst and intriguing at best.
In other words you like the self-insert Garystu's with no personality. Why am I not surprised.

>>14310442

Lets be honest. If IBO glorified prostitution through seeing Lafter post coitus with a client you are a sick fuck who added the prostitution scene for audiences to fap to.

>>14316059
Sort of, that's really only at first though and he had the language barrier to deal with too.

>>14307713
Cloud was never edgy not even in AC, he's just an emo brat.

>>14306312
That's not interesting when it's repeated ad nauseum with no actual development

>>14317073
Even in that he was just depressed because he and his adopted child was dying, and didn't know how to tell his family.

>>14307729
>IBO, for what was supposed to be a character-focused Gundam, has some of the least character development in Gundam history, on par with fucking IGLOO or G-Savior
>IGLOO
>The series that focuses entirely on one character, and then kills them.

>>14316804
Where did I say it had to be a prostitution scene? I just wanted more harem hijinx with the Turbines, those parts were amusing as fuck seeing how Tekkadan reacted to it, and Shino/Eugene getting backed up so hard they had to go look for hookers later.

You sure are projecting hard here.

>>14315004
True, but Fujos aren't voting enough with their wallets much so it kinda proves it's not something you'd wanna depend on to make it big.

>>14317435
IBO hate is overblown, but it's to be expected since it fails at everything that matters in Gundam in favor of the things that usually take second priority. About the only interesting thing was that it didn't rely on beams, and the MC is probably the first TV Gundam MC to favor a hammer/mace over a sword/blade.

>>14316684
>The real reason for Inaho being smarter than anyone else is because if he wasn't then he wouldn't be able to stand out. Inaho on his own already isn't really connect to the plot

see>>14315000

You know it says a lot of how much shittier and inconsequential Inaho's character truly was when the entire thread is just talking about Mika instead.

>>14316742
>All things that other characters could have done,

So...Rayet figuring out how to counter Vlad? She doesn't even have a high school education.

What about Calm figuring out Fennianne's trick? He's the dumbest in the class.

Whose's going to face down Slaine in the final battle, Inko?

> Besides that the deaths of those counts didn't effect the story at all
Actually they set up a situation where the Orbital Knights felt threatened and chose to combine forces. This led to Slaine rising to power.

>Actually if you take Inaho out of the story you get rid of a stupid character that has no purpose thus, getting rid of the stupider parts of A/Z.

Getting rid of Inaho means that Asseylum has nobody to relate to so her character development falls appart

>. Besides that even the creators have said that Inaho was a last minute thought

Source?

>In other words you like the self-insert Garystu's with no personality. Why am I not surprised.

Hey, no need to get personal about it. It's just an anime.

>>14320674
>She doesn't even have a high school education.
Show never states this. Hell there's nothing that Inaho does that goes beyond the compounds of common logic or searching on wikipedia so its even more puzzling as to how he's the only one doing anything.
>Actually they set up a situation where the Orbital Knights felt threatened and chose to combine forces.
Which had nothing to do with the deaths of the previous ones as they continued to do shit by themselves even after that, it was only a single operation

>Getting rid of Inaho means that Asseylum has nobody to relate to so her character development falls appart

As if you defending A/Z is bad enough you systemically believing this is hilarious in itself.

>>14315000
>So the inexplicable survival of Asseylum
She got shot in the season finale, was in a comma for two years and the only reason she even got to her final encounter is because they had to fucking make up a random character out of fucking nowhere which shows how much the writers

>the deaths of half a dozen knights
Hilariously enough during the timeskip the Earth Forces was able to push the Vers back while Inaho was incapacitated which shows how much the writers gave a shit about consistency.

>, and the rivalry between Inaho and Slaine is pointless?

What rivalry? Slaine didn't even give a shit about Inaho and the bulk of the show was focused on his character as whole his "rivalry" with Inaho is almost a non-factor.

So basically Inaho could have been replace with a cardboard cutout and it'll remain the same because the writing in this is so loose anyone could have been able to do anything with very little reason.

>I actually find his cold analytical style to be refreshing at worst and intriguing at best. Winning because of your brains is always a plus in my book.

You are a very sad little man especially when all the battles could be summed up as the enemy being painfully stupid.

>>14320723
>As if you defending A/Z is bad enough you systemically believing this is hilarious in itself.

See, here's the weird thing. You claim to hate A/Z but at the same time you know all about it. If you truly hated A/Z you'd have dropped it after 6 episodes and never given it a second thought,

So what's your actual angle?

>>14320741
>You are a very sad little man especially when all the battles could be summed up as the enemy being painfully stupid.
This is actually true in much of military history. I mean, look at the Battle of Getttysburg. Lee had the entire Union army on the run and then decided to launch a charge straight uphill into a prepared position. And Lee was considered one of the best generals of his generation.

Alexander beat Darius simply because Darius kept chickening out.

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>>14320749
>See, here's the weird thing. You claim to hate A/Z but at the same time you know all about it.
But if I didn't know a lot about it you're just say I'm mindlessly hating it without understanding it. That was the pitfall trolls encounter when it came to G-Reco. The show is easy to pick apart and has blatant flaws, if you're implying I had to dive deep for this piece of shit then you're quite delusional.

>>14320749
>You claim to hate A/Z but at the same time you know all about it
Why is that weird? People claim to hate Gundam SEED Destiny and they give good reason to, why is it weird for someone to do the same for A/Z? The people that dropped it are the lucky ones since they don't even have to participate in these discussions.

>>14320786
Yeah, but I dropped G-reco after 6 episodes and pretty much ignored all the threads about it.

>>14320741
>You are a very sad little man especially when all the battles could be summed up as the enemy being painfully stupid.

Not that Anon and I understand that Inaho can't be defended but at least Inaho overcomes his OP opponents instead of being a badass by default because everyone else is as you say "painfully stupid" which sums up nearly every opponent in IBO. I'd rather have A/Z battles instead of literally painfully stupid opponents.

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>>14320775
But none of that had anything to do with the inept stupidity of the people involved just circumstances that led to their downfall. Having a mech with the ability to freeze and not taking advantage of the terrain until its too late is dumb, getting fooled by an empty container despite the fact that you have a mech with a plasma sword is dumb, having a mech with all the abilities of four other mechs along with their weaknesses is really fucking dumb. It's like watching someone play Megaman as they effortlessly defeat the robot master by using the correct element which correlates to their weakness, not very engaging.

>>14320803
You did the right thing.
The only thing worse than that ending was the knob-goblins on /m/ who won't let anyone say anything bad about it without getting into a "debate" that answers every comment with "that's because you're STUPID".

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>>14320809
>but at least Inaho overcomes his OP opponents instead of being a badass by default because everyone else is as you say "painfully stupid" which sums up nearly every opponent in IBO
Nah the difference here is that Mika fights like a savage animal against people who adhered to combat critique in a war. There really is nothing exceptional about how Mika fights, he just has an ancient MS that the opponent can't read but as we saw when he did get an opponent who wasn't pussy footing around he got his ass beat. What makes A/Z insulting is that Inaho isn't doing anything no one else can do and the show treats it as exceptional, there's no reason for him to still be a trainer kat, there's no reason for him to be only one to could up with these plans, they just happen because the directors isn't interested in making engaging battles but to have they be the bridge to the shitty ass drama in between which is why they wind up being so short. To put it in simpler terms, Mika is like a guy who would bite you in the ear during a fist fight, Inaho is like a guy who would set up obvious traps to not engage in combat hoping people would be stupid enough to take it.

>>14320818
>But none of that had anything to do with the inept stupidity of the people involved just circumstances that led to their downfall.

Ahem, Picket's Charge? Most idiotic maneuver Robert E. Lee ever ordered?

>>14320832
Found the retard

>>14320875
Did Lee have a robot that could duplicate its body thousand fold? I think you need to shut up now.

>>14320865
>What makes A/Z insulting is that Inaho isn't doing anything no one else can do and the show treats it as exceptional, there's no reason for him to still be a trainer kat, there's no reason for him to be only one to could up with these plans
And that's what A/Zfags fail to understand what makes Inaho such a shit character and why the battles are so fucking shit. There's no rhyme to reason why they're happening and come about just as asspully as the battles in super robot shows because the enemy's failure is bades entirely on him being an idiot rather than the opponent overpowering him. Ironically enough this is why the MC is always in a prototype because there's at least an in universe explanation for why the enemy would lose.

>>14320749
I watched all of A/Z because it made me giggle and the soundtrack was nice.
It's still shit though.

>>14320865
Wow I wonder how people even get food in their universe since it's so hard for anybody (especially their equivalent of knights that police the world) to handle a caveman swinging a mace around. They can't even stop a fucking Train for fucks sake and the world leaders would bow down to a naive teenager for pointing out the obvious. There's obviously other problems besides people that adhere to combat critique which is weird in a post disaster setting.

You made solid points on A/Z but IBO is far worse because of having literal idiots that sabotage their own plans rather than falling for an opponent's trap.

>>14320979
I love how you still claim IBO is far worse without explaining why

>>14321023
Valvrager tactics.

>>14320979
>Wow I wonder how people even get food in their universe since it's so hard for anybody (especially their equivalent of knights that police the world) to handle a caveman swinging a mace around.
It has nothing to do with being smart, the Barbatos and Mika's style of combat is foreign to them since their beam weaponry are ineffective against it forcing them to fight it in close combat where Mika excels at. When we're introduce to fighters who fight just as dirty as Mika he got handed to. That's much easily to swallow then the enemy just being retarded.

>>14321023
Literally the entire post. The idiots in A/Z don't always sabotage their own plans. People trying to assassinate asshime actually try their hardest to whereas jewhime's assassins literally gave up while having her in sight of a sniper rifle.

What makes a character interesting is an arc. What would be the arc of an already stoic, put-together protagonist? Learning to be a pussy?

It's the same with everything. Star Wars, old kung fu movies... It's satisfying when a fish out of water character learns to adapt to certain challenges (even if they still have issues by the end)

>>14321047
That's true but there were many opportunities to annihilate them without going toe to toe with Barbs and everyone is literally too dumb to go through with it.

>Beam weaponry
Since when?

>>14321054
> People trying to assassinate asshime actually try their hardest to whereas jewhime's assassins literally gave up while having her in sight of a sniper rifle.
That makes the Vers even worse in comparison because they try and fail hard at it all the damn time.

>>14321054
Anon you clearly have difficulty understanding children's shows, you should give up before you dig your grave any deeper.

>>14321076
But it's alright to point it out if it's A/Z, Valverave or non-gundam shows right?

>>14321075
Like no other show right? Even char tried his hardest to destroy white base and failed all the time.

>>14321094
If by point out, you mean completely confuse what the show presents with what you want the show to present, then sure.

The whole assassination thing, Kudelia's death wasn't the end, but a means to an end. Her living served that end just as well, hence why the assassins didn't try for a followup shot. The whole thing was to make her the center of attention, because whether she be that in life or death it still serves the purposes of whatshisface fatfuckguy.

Also incidentally Fumitan wasn't placed close to Kudelia to raise her up to the point where she'd be assassinated, her role in all of this was a debt collected by those who got her a job as Kudelia's caretaker in the first place, when it became apparent that Kudelia's activism made her an ideal person to rally a cause around (and making a martyr out of her is just the easiest way to catalyze a movement).

You have to be real deep up your ass in denial to see it any other way.

>>14305654
Stoc is better than a whinning weakling.

>>14305805
No.

Unless you mean that throwaway line about him enjoying killing.

Although I would laugh until tomorrow if that is going to be his arc.

>>14320891
Irrelevant. Robert E. Lee lost the battle of Gettysburg due to a stupid mistake. Q.E.D. irl battles can be lost due to one stupid misake

>>14320915
>There's no rhyme to reason why they're happening and come about just as asspully as the battles in super robot shows because the enemy's failure is bades entirely on him being an idiot rather than the opponent overpowering him.

First, Inaho wins with science. Not bullshit. Most of the things that he talks about are actual scientific phenomenons that I just love to see applied properly for once.

Second, many irl battles have been won or lost because the enemy general did a stupid move. Sun Tzu says that you want to wait for your enemy to make a mistake and simply don't make a mistake before that.

>>14305797
He didn't care about Saji though, he just saw that what happened with Saji and his loved ones was his responsibility, that is why they kept discussing about it, Setsuna saw that he unintentionally dragged a innocent civillian on their war, just like Ali did to Setsuna when he was a kid.

Setsuna doesn't have much in the way of emotional sympathy for damn nearly everyone, the only ones he kinds of feel something are Marina because he sees her as a surrogate mother and Feldt as a sister, he is one of the most emotionally detached characters out there, he is what Sousuke would be on a less "light" hearted series, instead of becoming a more hotblooded MC he became more and more detached from ther est of humanity that by the end he was one of the only ones who managed to actually understand a completely alien race

>>14305825
It can happen, you just have to make that fucking hack Nagai the director

>>14306137
>According to an interview they wrote Mika with what they(Okada/Nagai) believe a bonafide genius would act like
Well, they failed catastrophically, if they wanted to make a genius just make a carbon copy of Eggs-kun for all of his gary stu autism he at least appeared to be actually intelligent or at least have more emotions than a fucking chair

>>14305654
Inaho was a terrible protagonist whose closest moment to showing the smallest bit of personality eating eggs. Mika was similarly autistic but at least he showed at least a few hints at a personality throughout the show.

>>14328535
>Inaho
>Emotions

Pick one

Never mind the "stoic" protagonist. What about a guy that loves his job, maybe even a bit too much? I imagine there's plenty of people that would identify with a guy that enjoys piloting a 20 ft tall war machine.

>>14328623
Hey, not our fault you're bad at reading people.

>>14328527
>He didn't care about Saji though
Wrong.

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>>14306137
They should have based him off of a real genius.

>>14328623
>>14328623

Inaho was jealous and quietly petulant at times even in the first season, and he was made considerably more emotive in the second season as part of his character growth. Still not a well written character though, but then again it was not a well written show.

>>14328988
Neither eggs nor mika really behave like a genius necessarily would partly because these writers aren't geniuses and don't understand how geniuses think (and clearly didn't do the research) and also because geniuses manifest themselves in ways more than just quiet know-it-all autism.

Also for a genius, hawking likes to say really inane, platitudinous things on his TV show.

>>14328688

Japan would never made a protagonist that actually enjoys fighting in wars and killing people.

That's not something they'd want to show to their kids.

>>14329028
>Neither eggs nor mika really behave like a genius necessarily would partly because these writers aren't geniuses and don't understand how geniuses think (and clearly didn't do the research) and also because geniuses manifest themselves in ways more than just quiet know-it-all autism.

An intelligent person with no drive towards anything wouldn't really be noticed as a genius.

At the very least Inaho liked to babble about things.


>Also for a genius, hawking likes to say really inane, platitudinous things on his TV show.

I'm not really fond of him.

>>14329028
>Inaho was jealous and quietly petulant at times even in the first season, and he was made considerably more emotive in the second season as part of his character growth.
I'm always gonna point to that cloud nine scene that prove how preposterous this shit is. If IBO gets the edge over A/Z is because the cast don't treat Mika like he's normal because he ain't and his relationship with Orga is one of the few interesting aspects of the show that never gets explored more which I do hope changes in S2.

>>14320674
>Getting rid of Inaho means that Asseylum has nobody to relate to so her character development falls appart
She was fucking closer to Rayet than to Inaho, in her relationship file Inaho is below Rayet.

>>14320674
>Source?
The Archives interview, the same one that explained Slaine Inaho's character was the last to be finished last minute long after they figured out what they wanted to do with the series.

>>14329055
>Japan would never made a protagonist that actually enjoys fighting in wars and killing people.
MD Geist?

>>14329028
>Also for a genius, hawking likes to say really inane, platitudinous things on his TV show.
That's something old men like to do in general.

>>14329375
>Md Geist
>Kids show

Future Islamic State in the making right there.

>>14329427
Where did the part I quoted mention kids?

>>14329233
It's truly fucking hilarious if you've read the script translations.

Inaho's thoughts (I will protect Asshime)
Inaho's dialogue: droning on about machines.
Asshime's thoughts: (I wonder what Slaine is doing?)

It would have been slightly better if they just went ahead with making Inaho a creepy stalker.

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>>14329356
>She was fucking closer to Rayet

Yeah...

>>14329561
Rayet is listed as a friend to Asshime while Inaho was only listed as a acquaintance. Both of their character profiles in archive actually confirm this, she was closer to Rayet. Case in point in the epilogue 24.5 Inaho is the only one she doesn't worry about or make an effort to see. He was never really one of the people she considered to be important to her.

>>14329233
I'm just giving credit (hah!) where credit's due. Inaho isn't a completely flat, emotionless character, he does have the occasional visible feelings. He's also a really poorly written character. But because he's the MC he's treated like a genius with only slightly less emotion by the other characters when he actually behaves like a half-assed weirdo.

>>14330554
Inaho is a flat character, he doesn't have a character arc, and remains the same from the beginning of the story to the end, barely shows emotion, has no personality, or any connection to any plot so the make up for it the writers made it so that he could be the only useful person in battle, despite the fact that it literally made no sense for this to be a thing.

Even Gundam Wing treated their emotionless child soldiers as though they were fucking weirdos and had said characters be loners, it made sense for these characters to not get treated as though they were normal because they weren't.

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Why does /m/ chide more compose MC's who does not express themselves until needed but will praise screaming children who temper picks a fight on everybody

>>14330873
Because those screaming children usually mature into better people, while characters like Inaho/Mika are static.

>>14307459
>Kind of reminds me of kamille at the end of Zeta, when he starts freaking out Fa with all his talk of killing

It makes me wonder where the "Gundam protagonists are all about UNDERSTANDING" meme comes from when you have dudes like Kamille whose justification for murdering Papsmeer is that he's a monster and needs to just fucken die, or Uso who tells Chronicle that having hate in your heart is dangerous at the exact moment he kills him, or just freaks the fuck out on Tassilo and vaporizes him with a beam saber

Or, you know, Mika

>>14330873
Because those screaming children are more interesting characters who make sense given their world, also through character development they do tend to become better, also they're actual characters. As opposed to Inaho and Mika, who are flat characters.

>>14328688
>>14329055

Knights and Magic, but that's a LN. MC is basically /m/ in solid form but without the sperging and shit posting.

>>14307809
>All those pretty shotos
Why don't they just make all the pilots cute girls already?
So /m/ if they had all cute girls in mechas in Gundam would it be win/win or finally destroy the brand beyond repair?

>>14331101
>who make sense given their world
Under this line of reasoning, more stoic characters also make sense given their world as yelling and screaming in a mech really just wastes your breath.

> opposed to Inaho and Mika, who are flat characters.

Now you assume that Mika and Inaho are actually entirely flat when they are merely unexpressive. This actually gives them more contrast to when they actually show emotion as far more extreme.

>>14329633
??????

Hime has never tied to anyone in the Deucalion. She has remained hidden for half of the first season and Inaho was limited only to protect her. We know from his sister that he like the princess, but this relationship does not develop except for some dialogue about the sky color.

Inaho went friendzoned just after the Rayet rampage and this one remains in prison until the season finale (and missing the halo Jump mission). Therefore, I have no idea why you says that Hime has tied up with Rayet .

Anyways, when Lemrina asks to her sister who she really loves, Hima says she loves everyone, which it is basically a way to circumvent the question and some might even say that she love nobody.

Between her and Inaho, frankly I do not know who is robot.

>>14333138
>it does make sense but he should have known that it would fail drastically when hime-sama wakes up because she wants unity not war
Except it doesn't always make sense, not unless the stoic character is a child soldier. Or someone generally not all there. And even then they're still human so you need to make the character express human emotions and reactions.

>Now you assume that Mika and Inaho are actually entirely flat when they are merely unexpressive.
Not assuming I've seen their shows, and while Mika still has a second season to go and therefore could change, Inaho remained the same from beginning to end. Being a flat character doesn't mean that a character isn't expressive it means that they're static, they don't develop or change, and there isn't anything more to them than they appear to be.

Inaho starts the series as an autistic Gary Stu and ends the series in the same manner, without any change or revelation about his character. So yes by definition Inaho is a flat character.

Expression has nothing to do with it, besides that both characters are pretty boring to watch.

>>14333170
>Hime has never tied to anyone in the Deucalion.
According to the A/Z Archives she's tied to Rayet, as she's the only other character who knew exactly who Asshime was the get go and was a fellow Martian, so Asshime felt closer to her. Inaho, well see >>14329453. Inaho likes the Princess, but she didn't care nearly as much about him as he did about her.

I never said she loved anyone merely that Rayet is considered to be her friend, while Inaho is an acquaintance at worst a distant friend at best, but not someone who she really cared a lot about, in fact that belief that she did care about him was pretty much just a another misunderstanding.

>>14333772
>Except it doesn't always make sense, not unless the stoic character is a child soldier.

Inaho and Mika are both the very definition of child soldiers.

>>14333896
They are the very definition of ill contrived badly written plot devices.

>>14334168
So you say but I'm convinced you're just not paying attention.

And don't try to just change the subject when I've caught you in a logical fallacy. Inaho and Mika are child soldiers. Therefore it makes sense that they're stoic.

>>14333772
>Being a flat character doesn't mean that a character isn't expressive it means that they're static, they don't develop or change, and there isn't anything more to them than they appear to be.
Wrong, flat and static are two very different things. Flat is the opposite of a character with depth (round) and static is the opposite of a character who changes (dynamic). You mashed both definitions in there at least.

>>14334714
But Inaho was stoic before being a child soldier. Mika seems to have been autistic from a very young age though.

>>14334757
Wrong

>Flat and round characters,

>characters as described by the course of their development in a work of literature. Flat characters are two-dimensional in that they are relatively uncomplicated and do not change throughout the course of a work. By contrast, round characters are complex and undergo development, sometimes sufficiently to surprise the reader.
Encylopedia Brittanica
and http://literarydevices.net/flat-character/

and

>A static character is one that does not undergo inner changes or undergoes a little change.
http://literarydevices.net/static-character/
A static character is a flat character, but a flat character isn't always a flat character.

>>14333896
Mika yes, Inaho no. While Inaho was trained to operate military equipment he has zero practical knowledge in the field, or experience and also has no military discipline or conditioning. So essentially what Inaho did was the equivalent of ROTC, he's not really a child soldier.

Besides that Inaho was a weirdo long before he went to school.

>>14335089
static.

>>14334767
You do see people like that now and then. Usually the shy introverts that hide in corners. Often, it's a phase that they'll grow out off but sometimes they never do.

Interesting people, though. Always have something on their minds.

>>14335186
Thing is though, Inaho wasn't a shy introvert, he's just a weirdo, who once you realize that there's nothing really interesting going through his mind anyway becomes boring to watch.

>>14335428
He's got a slew of obscure scientific knowledge in that EGGhead

>>14315117
Mostly because he spends a lot of his free time reading books or wikipedia ever since he was a child. His sister wasn't very reliable so he had to learn how to do basic things such as cooking. He's always been the stoic quick thinker type though.

>>14336308
>shit that anyone can read on wikipedia
>obscure science knowledge

>>14337206
The only thing that Inaho's backstory said about him was that he was stoic from when he was a baby, to the point that he never cried during heaven's fall. They never once even give a hint of him having any hobbies.

>>14337369
You can be honest about only reading secondhand comments and not the entire backstory. Everyone does that anyway, it's a blessing when people actually watch the show they're discussing.

>he never cried during heaven's fall
He was making sounds, that's how Yuki noticed him. He wasn't crying but he didn't know what was happening, he was just a baby. He did cry later when their parents were confirmed dead.

>They never once even give a hint of him having any hobbies
I'm not talking about hobbies, only how he spends his time and why he knows so much about everything. In the backstory you learn he often goes to the library to read books or look things up on the internet. I guess you could call it a hobby though.

>>14337364
You'd be surprised how many people don't know about the leidenfrost effect or how you should not put a frozen turkey into super hot oil.

>>14337637
They'd might know it from dripping water on a pan to see if it's still hot.

I know I used to be entertained as a little kid watching water droplets bounce around like glass beads.

So most agree Chirico is a better stoic which i agree. Someone like Heero and Setsuna is too crazy to be taken seriously. But what do you guys think of Sousuke of FMP?

He was stoic because he grew up on a military background and are juvenile to the comfortable civilian lifestyle. But at least he grew from there. Sure most of it is played for laughs because of the nature of the show, but he did adapt (At least as far as TSR. Haven't read the full novel). It felt natural to me.

>>14337658
There was the anti-vax movement. We've still got people that think diamond armor would be the best armor ever.

>>14337823
>But what do you guys think of Sousuke of FMP?
He doesn't really fit into the :stoic" category since he's fairly emotional he's just socially stunted over being grown in a war torn environment and being closed off from civilian life until he was 17. He actually goes on a rant about how Kaname never really considered his feelings when he was at school slowly adjusting to civilian life and she would always snap at him for doing something out the ordinary. Fumoffu in most of the spin-offs has him being as stoic as Heero and the like for laughs but in the main storyline he can get very emotional but always keeps a calm demeanor. He's definitely more realistic than Heero and Setsuna who are borderline crazy.

>>14305654
A protagonists appeal depends on how they are written and the people who are watching the show.

I never really found Mika appealing since his character remained the same.He was just there to kill enemies and push Orga to achieve Tekkedan's objective.

>>14338071
I wouldn't call him stoic in Fumoffu. It was more like he was hot blooded towards being a professional soldiering.

>>14337823
Chirico is a better stoic mainly because he's a good character, him being stoic is the further thing in my mind that comes up when I remember his character. He's not socially retarded, repressing his emotions or is actually a good boy inside his rough edges that's just how he is and the plot gives a good reason as to why he acts the way he does so that;s its taken with a degree of seriousness, 00 had good reason for Setsuna to act the way he does but they way his character is portrayed makes it hard to take seriously especially since its taken to extremes with a catchphrase included. Heero's problems stems from everyone in Wing barring Duo being poorly written so his behavior is not any different from the rest of the cast since everyone in the show is fucking crazy and acts in ways that you have to question if the writer ever interacted with another human being in his life. Inaho is just underwritten, whether he's stoic or not has nothing to do with the plot and more to do with him being molded as a concept rather than an actual character to the point I really believed they killed him off in the season finale because there was nothing to him at all and even in end still nothing. I'm willing to wait until the second season to see what they do with Mika but as of now he does nothing for me for basically what he describes >>14338091 not nearly as developed as Setsuna and not as off the walls as Heero just there.

>>14338182
In the case of Gundam Wing,everyone except Wufei mellowed out in the end and became somewhat less crazy.

I've noticed that in modern anime"stoic"characters don't really develop like they used to.They remain stagnant.

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>>14305825
POR QUE NO LOS DOS?

>>14338182
>killed off inaho
...umm, about that.

>>14337513
>You can be honest about only reading secondhand comments and not the entire backstory. Everyone does that anyway, it's a blessing when people actually watch the show they're discussing.
Unfortunately I did watch the show, which was how I knew that you were talking out of your ass.

>He was making sounds, that's how Yuki noticed him. He wasn't crying but he didn't know what was happening, he was just a baby. He did cry later when their parents were confirmed dead.
Babies are very sensitive to their environments, so a normal baby when they're surrounded with chaos and loud noise will cry. The simple fact that they call attention to the fact that Inaho didn't cry at all, means that even the show realized that it was out of the ordinary.

>I'm not talking about hobbies, only how he spends his time and why he knows so much about everything. In the backstory you learn he often goes to the library to read books or look things up on the internet. I guess you could call it a hobby though.
Never heard anything about it, then again we never actually see Inaho express any interest in the series itself.

>>14337637
Still that doesn't make the information obscure, remember wikipedia is a encyclopedia maintained by the public, in fact the information is really obscure if you can't find it wikipedia.

>>14334714
You are literally retarded.

>>14305654
Mika just seemed like a character designed around the idea of "make the main Gundam pilot do things that other Gundam don't".

It hits a checklist of bulletpoints and let's the audience point and go "oh, no other Gundam pilot has ever just shot someone in cold blood" or "oh, if this were any other pilot, they would be crying or UNDERSTANDING now", but there really isn't any depth to Mika's character beyond that. He doesn't develop, or change, and largely could've been replaced with an autonomous AI in Barbatos that automatically fought anyone that disagreed with Orga.

>>14339780
This so much. I have no idea how people are not seeing this no matter how many times this is being pointed out. It's just absolutely lazy and uninteresting. The entire show looks to be an inferior copy of A/Z which is already kinda bad.

I guess it's worse for Mika because of having to live up to previous Gundam MCs on top of being an A/Z ripoff while Inaho was in his own show. But shit man at least try to write a character instead of check listing it.

>>14339038
Then go out and ask people about things you read on wikipedia. Even if the knowledge is publicly available doesn't mean people will learn it.

>>14339485
Okay.
Why?

>>14339780
>IBO S2
>Mika dies while connected to Barbatos
>the AV system absorbs his life force
>Barbatos comes to life as an invincible demon mobile suit

>>14339814
Is IBO your first Gundam?

>>14340220
For one you seem to think I was someone else having a debate with you.

>>14339030
>thinks the baby scene is in the anime
>knows about the baby but doesn't know about the library
I almost wrote a long reply but it's obvious by now you didn't even watch the goddamn thing and are just trolling using what you learned in the threads. Congratulations, I fell for your bait.

Have fun shitposting about a show you didn't watch.

>>14340384
Nope. Why do you ask?

>>14339814

Anime is built on checklists. Fuck having your character marching to the beat of his own drum

>>14340441
Look, if you don't use trip codes you've got no reason to complain about mistaken identities.

>>14340897
This is the saddest thing for me to admit.
Is there a character in modern anime that does not follow on the tropes people crazy over. Instead, write them as a character? An individual?

>>14339814

The one thing I kept seeing people do was go "Mika is so well-written. He has all these emotions bottled up inside of him and he doesn't know how to express them like a normal human being." They kept reading into the shipping angle and his desire to be a farmer as proof there's something deep down, that he wants to be normal on some level.

Then he massacred Carta, and a bunch of those same people went what the hell!?

The problem is, and this applies to IBO as a whole, there's enough little fluff pieces to distract people from how shallow it is. People thought Mika was developing due to the aforementioned scenes, but really he remained static. And it's those things people will continue to praise the show for, like how people go on about how IBO is about politics because of all the exposition, ignoring stuff like the show getting complaints in Japan over supporting terrorism.

>>14328535
>Well, they failed catastrophically
I agree. That interview really showed that Okada and Nagai have no idea what they are doing.

>>14329233
The cast does treat Mika like he normal save for Orga on the odd occasion they interact.

>>14341164
People are prone to pattern recognition, even when a pattern isn't actually intended.

I think it's flawed to say that they're following a formula, it's just that they all happen to share elements. Because, again, people are compelled to find patterns in just about anything.

>>14341167
>terrorism

When?

>>14341213
The Dort Arc. Workers were threatening violence if their demands weren't met, but the show never tried to show this is a bad thing. Then they got killed and it was all "how sad, they were innocent. Gjallarhorn are bastards."

>>14316742
>For a Main character however Inaho is pointless.
The show's plot involves an assassination attempt on a martian princess. Inaho has the classic "boy meets mysterious girl" encounter and moves the plot forward with her from there. He's the one who befriends and protects her the most. All Slaine did was follow their trail the entire 1st season so Inaho is kind of essential for the boring story they were telling.

>>14341167
>Then he massacred Carta, and a bunch of those same people went what the hell!?
They weren't paying attention to the scene where he thought that Biscuit's sisters were killed.

Mika wants to be normal, but he isn't well.. Normal. He was killing for survival since a kid and following Orga's orders on a promise of Orga leading him to the place he will be able to have a happy life. And if somebody is responsible for killing people he cares about, he turns berserk.

>People thought Mika was developing due to the aforementioned scenes, but really he remained static.
Mika's development was about him recognizing Kudelia as somebody also worth supporting.
Though yes, he was mostly static. Orga and Kudellia were the MC and the story was about them becoming good leader/politician. Mika had no room to develop because he already was a good pilot at the start of IBO.

Still, we got only a half of a series. If you want to compare Mika to other MCs, compare him to their state at the half-way point of their story.

>>14341223
>Workers were threatening violence if their demands weren't met, but the show never tried to show this is a bad thing.
The workers were arming themselves in case they were attacked, at least that was the intention of the leader of moderate faction. They were essentially and armed Solidarity facing a government that actually would massacre them if they disobeyed.

>Then they got killed and it was all "how sad, they were innocent. Gjallarhorn are bastards."
Rather "They were misguided and shortsighted and got played by Gjallarhorn and a mafia boss"

>>14341257
Kudelia isn't believable as a politician whatsoever.
>Mika had no room to develop because he already was a good pilot at the start of IBO.
There are other ways he could develop outside piloting skills. Learning to praise Kudelia is pretty poor for a 20+ episode season. A human never stops developing themselves, reflecting and changing because they think they reached the quota for life, especially at such a young age.

>>14341117
Its not my fault you're being so pedantic and obstinate that you think multiple people disagreeing with your views are the same person, dude.

>>14341309
>Kudelia
>a politician
she's an activist, not a politico.

Also
>complaining that a mongolian animation doesn't adhere to your rigid rules for real life behavior

>>14340237
I'd watch a Gundam show where the main character gets mortally wounded in the first episode and spends the rest of the series as a brain in a jar hooked up to his Gundam.

Basically Graze Ein except he's not on a psychotic spree to kill orphans, and instead must come to terms that he's now effectively a giant sentient fighting robot.

>>14341318
That's a new excuse for defending a shallow character in a character driven show.

>>14341337
>I'm not wrong, you're just making up excuses!

aaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

>>14305658
Sasuke Sagara, Setsuna F. Seiei, Heero Yuy.

>>14341352
>Setsuna
>badass
He was just gundam.

>>14341309
>Kudelia isn't believable as a politician whatsoever.
By Gundam standards, she is.
She doesn't have "bring peace" as goal, only reforms that would improve the life of her home planet. She had to learn to use her connections, the necessity of making deals with devils, and realize that big players will support her actions only if it benefits them.

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>>14341368
He had his moments.

>>14341315
Dude, chill, it's just an anime

>>14341368
Are you implying that gundams aren't badass?

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>>14341368

>>14341280
Watch the show again man. They said they were using whatever means necessary to get the company to negotiate. Not to mention, they believe Kudelia is calling for rebellion across the board. ChocChar even calls it an armed uprising.

Not to mention, Port authorities tried to arrest them over the smuggled weapons and they responded with force.

Those guns aren't just there for defense.

>>14341439
Dude, just admit you were wrong.
>>14341368
So Gundamu is best protagonist? I agree.

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>>14341463

>>14339814
>The entire show looks to be an inferior copy of A/Z which is already kinda bad.
Not this shit again.

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>>14341368

>>14340521
Anyone thinking that A/Z did anything original makes you look like you've never seen another Gundam before.

>>14341309
>Kudelia isn't believable as a politician whatsoever.

Yeah she is, most politicians don't have a clue what they are doing, they just think they do until they realize they are pawns of big companies and people in power in the background.

The difference is she survived when she was thrown under the bus, so she went through a whole lot of shit before she finally realized she has to take what she can and utilize her position to her advantage. About the only thing unrealistic about her you could contest is that she didn't turn into a shitty person who no longer cares about her goal since that's how 99.999% of politicians turn out assuming they were ever noble enough to prioritize said goal in the first place.

And even that is written passably since she was betrayed by her family, unlike real politicians she literally had no one to turn to, no one to protect, no one to rely on other than the maid with her in the same situation. What would you black mail her with? Her parents? Good luck with that one offered her up to be killed and the other was completely apathetic/naive/clueless/powerless/useless.

That isn't to say she was well written, but at least IBO made sense of her character and how it changed even though it sadly was the reason the series resulted in turning into shit. People aren't watching Gundam for this kinda thing.

I mean you know something went wrong when nobody has even translated the Inazuma doujin.

>>14341654
>Just admit you were wrong
NEVAAR

but really, it's an argument, not a popularity contest.

>So Gundamu is best protagonist? I agree.

Was he badass? Sure. But was he a good character? Not really. Setsuna only had his ideals and not much in the way of inner conflict. You don't even get the sense that he's got relationships with other characters.

The problem is that you never understand why he's badass, you're just told that he's important (true innovator) shown him beating his opponents but you never really understand what being a true innovator implies. I'm still not sure what Soran's abilities actually are.

To contrast this, I'll use Inaho, Mika, and Domon Kasshu,

Inaho plans out his battles. In season one, it usually took two episodes for him to kill an orbital knight. In the first, he probes his enemy, figuring out their strengths and weaknesses. In the second, he'd exploit those weaknesses and win. Very batman-esque. In the second season, Inaho recognizes he needs to be faster so he uses and abuses his eye, letting it take over parts of his brain just to give him an edge. To an extent, this works so far that he can face Slaine, who's proven to be more powerful than a typical OK, at a standstill. It eventually starts biting him in the ass but Inaho still uses his eye to the limit.

Mikazuki, on the other hand, is persistent and unpredictable. He keeps fighting even at a disadvantage, using AV and his own talents to keep himself alive. Eventually, Mika will find a way to win even if he's getting beat to hell in the process.

Domon is always improving, always training. You could squash him like a bug in one encounter and in the next he'd smash you're face in. Pretty generic as far as Shonnen Protagonists go but it works.

>>14346322
>Inaho plans out his battles.
Stopped reading there

>>14346344
Oh? So you say Inaho didn't prepare to fight Vlad with explosive reactive armor?

>>14344245
so you are saying kudelia is amazing?

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>>14305654
>Once again we are not talking about if IBO or Aldnoah were shit or not.
Is that the consensus around here? I watched Aldnoah.Zero the entire way through and I fucking loved it.
>Captain Magbarage is my waifu

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>>14346557
>I watched Aldnoah.Zero the entire way through and I fucking loved it.
You're gonna fit in fine here

>>14346408
>So you say Inaho didn't prepare to fight Vlad with explosive reactive armor?
Just like how he prepared for his fight with the ice faggot in the first episode of S2?

>>14346322
>>14346408
He only really planned for one fight, the rest is just a series of asspulls, contrivances and the enemy just being stupid.

>>14329446
The post you directly responded to.

>>14342653
What part of the post implied A/Z did anything original? Just saying IBO copied A/Z doesn't make A/Z original and not everyone watches Gundam.

>>14346322
>Mikazuki is persistent and unpredictable
How so? He just has the most advantage by having the only practical weapon and more AV
>He keeps fighting even at a disadvantage, using AV and his own talents to keep himself alive
What?
>The problem is that you never understand why he's badass
Setsuna fought both equal and more powerful opponents than him and his Gundam using his skill and talent in close quarters combat that was thought at a young age while Mika just does whatever the plot demands.
>Eventually, Mika will find a way to win even if he's getting beat to hell in the process.
Yeah that's why there's no tension in battles because he never gets beaten.
>you're just told that he's important (true innovator) shown him beating his opponents but you never really understand what being a true innovator implies
Only in S2. Shouldn't you watch S1 first before S2 or did you slept through everything? Well duh innovator is the Newtype of A.D. Is this your first gundam?
>You don't even get the sense that he's got relationships with other characters.
He confronted his past with Lockon's, cared for his death, mourned it with Feldt, understood Marina is searching the same thing by taking a different path, helped Saji and Louise, smiles when they found Allelujah alive and was shocked when he found out his old pal Ali is in a pmc.

Yeah I understand people not liking him but you're not providing anything to backup your accusations of him as a bad character or being worse than Mika.

>>14346583
He plans out the Trillram fight, the Vlad fight, and the Selkinas fight which he never actually shot at the target but was functionally in command.

>>14346669
>How so? He just has the most advantage by having the only practical weapon and more AV
In his first fight with Gaelio, his only fight with Lafter, and final fight with Ein he's usually outmatched but keeps fighting.

>Setsuna fought both equal and more powerful opponents than him and his Gundam using his skill and talent in close quarters combat that was thought at a young age while Mika just does whatever the plot demands.
You actually illustrate my point. Setsuna has never appeared to be an ace pilot. Ali managed to best him in close combat with an Enact of all things. So how the hell does he start fighting innovades at a parity? Because he's becoming a true Innovator? What does that give him?

>Well duh innovator is the Newtype of A.D. Is this your first gundam?
They never actually go into that and it's not coherent thorought the franchise. My first gundam was Wing, followed by G, followed by 08th MS team, followed by SEED. Note how those didn't have telepathy. Yes, even 08th even though it takes place in the FUCKING UC TIMELINE. By the time I had gotten through MSG, X, 0080, 0083, and Zeta I really didn't think newtypes were that big of a deal. Out of the 9 or so gundam timelines, only 2, UC and X, have newtypes and they don't show up in every UC story.

>your accusations of him as a bad character

I'm not calling him a bad character. He's certainly memorable and plays the part well. He's just not developed. The relationship between him and Felt? Never developed. Him and Marina? Doesn't go anywhere. Now, you don't need a romantic sideplot but hinting it to us and never going anywhere with it is just irritating. I mean, H/al and Lockon 2nd both got their love stories, why not Setsuna? It's like he's not actually the main character here.

...actually, would 00 get better or worse if you got rid of him and assigned all his parts to h/allelujah or the other meisters? Honest question.

>>14346669
Because A/Z copied or rather tried to copy Gundam. Hell Inaho is basically just a discount Heero, while Asshime is a discount Lacus.

>>14346867
>Now, you don't need a romantic sideplot but hinting it to us and never going anywhere with it is just irritating.

It's never hinted. In fact, not only is it never hinted, there is a scene that has both Setsuna and Marina explictly and bluntly state that they are not romantically attracted to one another. It was a fairly memetic scene at the time.

Setsuna does not feel romantic or sexual attraction towards anyone. It's not even clear that he CAN feel that sort of emotion. Feldt takes some interest in him, but it's always crystal clear that it's completely one-sided and Setsuna has no interest in returning those feelings; indeed, he barely recognizes them.

>>14346867
Well first off your mistake is not considering the franchise in production order. Look at the start of the franchise 0079, Zeta, ZZ, CCA, F91, Victory all featured Newtypes and started to be a big part as early as Zeta. X had Newtypes while SEED and 00 featured their own versions of it and this continued in Spin offs like build fighters.Stuff like 08th a side story or a smaller part of the war usually don't feature Newtypes which continues in Thunderbolt

>>14346867
>Setsuna has never appeared to be an ace pilot. Ali managed to best him in close combat with an Enact
Ali caught him by surprise by being a grunt and obviously the guy that taught him how to fight is better than him. Setsuna had displayed skill multiple times when fighting thrones, outnumbered by gn-Xs, alvatore and fighting Graham in a Gn-Flag. Most fights are him outnumbered and at a disadvantage in long range. Just because someone is better at it doesn't make him not an ace. It's boring if fights are one sided skill display like in IBO.
>So how the hell does he start fighting innovades at a parity? Because he's becoming a true Innovator?
He can fight them not only because of innovation but also because he has the 00 raiser which is their trump card/equalizer. Yes it has hinted innovation being close to Newtypes since Setsuna is able to intercept thought waves especially in trans-am.
>In his first fight with Gaelio, his only fight with Lafter, and final fight with Ein he's usually outmatched but keeps fighting.
Exactly my point all of them thanks to AV especially with Gaelio and Ein which shows Mcgillis monologues about AV.
>would 00 get better or worse if you got rid of him and assigned all his parts to h/allelujah or the other meisters?
Honestly no because Setsuna and his detachment from humanity's norm is what led him to have a different view. By seeing things from both sides he's able to understand and have faith in Humanity despite witnessing all the Evil they are capable off which we never see with characters like Mika. While there's room for mika's growth in S2, I still doubt S2 would be interesting enough for me.

>>14347188
>honestly no
I meant it would be worse

>>14347188
>Exactly my point all of them thanks to AV especially with Gaelio and Ein which shows Mcgillis monologues about AV.

The AV is ridiculously broken. From the sounds of it, the computer in the machine is doing a lot of the work. I mean, pilots can correct their aim just by sensing it rather than having to develop any skill on their own.

>>14347220
Yeah it's basically like Unicorn with unlimited red NT-D. Doesn't exactly fit the Underdog image they were going for.

>>14347182
Didn't have much of a choice. It was the nineties and streaming anime still wasn't a thing yet. Youtube wasn't a thing yet. I didn't have the money to buy the DVDs.

Also, SEED didn't actually have newtypes in the same sense as UC. In UC they were straight up telepaths while in SEED it's more of a boost to thinking and reaction. Considering that 00 has nothing to do with UC it's unreasonable to assume that it follows UC rules.

>>14347188
So Setsuna wins by virtue of having a better mobile suit than his own skill, is that about right?

>>14349176
It's his shtick until Innovator shenanigans

>>14346705
>the Vlad fight
Asspull
>the Selkinas fight
Asspull

I can't take anyone who defends this shit seriously

>>14346669
>Just saying IBO copied A/Z
Let me guess? Its a ripoff because they both uses Mars as a setting despite the fact that A/Z never once visited Mars.

>>14349247
>Asspull
What? The guy was using plasma sabers so they tossed him in the ocean. You might as well say Trans-Am is an asspull because That comes out of freakin' nowhere.

The Selkinas fight was a pretty solid feat of combined arms tactics. It's pretty much how modern armies wage war which fits in well with the UE's style.

>>14349204
So what are innovator shenanigans, anyway? Mind reading? Because they've managed to take Setsuna offguard even with his innovator powers in full swing.

>>14349253
They also have a stoic MC who supposedly is a genius and the story is a peace princess escort mission. Neither was good but it doesn't mean that it didn't try to be like A/Z or doing anything original for that matter. We know they had interesting ideas but wasn't explored which resulted the show lacking an identity.

>>14349176
What part of facing equal opponents don't you understand? He fought multiple Gn-Xs which have the same specs as the Gundams besides the operational time and a GN powered mobile armor. Yes he had Trans-am but he didn't use it till the last stretch because of the drawbacks it had. He obviously displayed tremendous skill before even getting the 00 which means he's an ace. Even Amuro needed Nu Gundam to fight Char properly in CCA so of course it's fair for Setsuna to have the 00 Raiser to match the clearly more advanced innovators Mobile Suits.

>wins by virtue of having a better mobile suit than his own skill, is that about right?
No, but that statement does fit Mika a lot more since we don't see him pilot anything other than machines with AV system whereas Exia requires a pilot with great CQC abilities to actually use it. Mika even won a final battle with Barbs feeding him skill he never had.

>>14349338
That's like saying Newtypes can't be beaten because they can mind read. They don't catch every god damn thought but rather sense intense ones like strong hostile intents.

>>14349399
>They also have a stoic MC who supposedly is a genius
Mika is not a genius
>and the story is a peace princess escort mission
Aina is not a princess

Congrats I just destroyed your stupid comparison

>>14349399
Kudelia advocated Martian independence.

>>14349454
>Mika is not a genious
Yup but he was intended to be a genius. Read the thread.
>Aina is not a peace princess
She's the maiden of Revolution that wanted to save Mars and is escorted by a robot like stoic MC in a giant robot like how Asshime wants to save earth and is also escorted by a robot like stoic MC in a giant robot. My point is that IBO is lacking an identity and was similar to other shows like A/Z. Congratulations on missing the point retard.

>>14349466
Yes we know that but overall A/Z and IBO while not exactly the same are similar.

>>14349454
>Mika is not a genius
And you know what a genius is... how"

>>14349176
Yes.

>>14349544
Because he isn't literate

>>14349526
>Yup but he was intended to be a genius.
>intended
We're talking about the actual fucking show dumbfuck not concepts, Mika ain't a genius just a wild animal, by your stupid logic Inaho shouldn't even exist because he was never intended to be one to begin with.
>She's the maiden of Revolution that wanted to save Mars and is escorted by a robot like stoic MC in a giant robot like how Asshime wants to save earth and is also escorted by a robot like stoic MC in a giant robot
The Tekkadan's mission was to get the Aina, a figurehead to Earth to speak on behalf of Mars for their cause. The Earth Forces was never planning on meeting with Asshime nor was their mission of escort considering she was only ever needed in the last battle to speak (which failed) and that she was purposely in hiding by both parties so the only people who knew she was alive were Saaz, Slaine and the people on board the ship so it was more like she hitched a ride with no knowledge on what she should do other than hide while Aina knew exactly what she was suppose to do, the Tekkadan knew that they were hired to escort her and the entire show was based on that mission. Even in your fucking summary there's big differences in the describtion, you can break down all your points to "a boy in a robot takes a girl somewhere" for most any show so by your logic Gundam X is a ripoff of A/Z the derivative mecha anime ever.

>>14349544
Mika can't fucking read and none of the characters ever say that he's a genius.

>>14349793
Leave it to the typical IBO fag to over complicate things.
>just a wild Animal
They tried to write him as a genius which validates my point on them going for something similar to A/Z you illiterate fuck. I don't even know what he's suppose to be in the show since all they do is show his bored face all the time. And I don't recall Garod being stoic, so why even bring X in this if it didn't match my description.

>>14350006
>They tried to write him as a genius
Which is why he attended 3rd grade English at age 15?

>>14350006
>They tried to write him as a genius which validates my point
But they didn't. He didn't even make plans for himself he just went out in fury in every sortie hence his "what should I do now" catchphrase. Why do A/Zfags think all mecha originated from A/Z?

You know, if the machine is doing most of the work (hence AV-equipped pilots being great pilots if they simply follow their senses), how much of the supposed genius is Mika and how much of it is Barbatos? Is Barbie feeding Mika all the information he needs to pull off the shit he does, or is it just adjusting itself to follow Mika's commands?

>>14350085
AV literally just makes any machine an extension of its user's will, as natural an extension of their body as their own flesh and blood limbs.

It's funny hearing people speak of genius this, genius that, and then manage to get completely confused by IBO's literally spell-it-out-like-the-viewer-is-retarded writing.

>>14350085
I think it helps in the finesse department.

For example to dodge a axe to the face the pilot still needs to react accordingly but the AV helps in the positioning reflex time and such.

>>14350055
I said they tried. I didn't say they did it or did it well. Nagai or Okada said that they wrote Mika as a genius. Mika is their idea of a genius and Inaho is presented as one in A/Z. All I'm saying is they were going for something like A/Z and even share similarities between them. What's so hard to understand and why is it so wrong to do a simple comparison? Are you that desperate to defend it that you lose your head when IBO is being compared to a show like A/Z when nothing I say implied that A/Z was better?

>>14307713
Cloud's not edgy at all. Squall was.

>>14350748
Cloud was trying to be edgy, the character at lest. I don't think the writers were trying to make him edgy.

Vincent Valentine was pretty edgy, though.

>>14353638
Cloud wasn't trying to be edgy he was just depressed.

>>14350359
Even if you try that, Mika isn't the first of his kind in Gundam (Trowa and Heero say I). The reason why A/Z has similarities with IBO is because A/Z itself ripped off of other Gundam series. IBO is just being a Gundam.

>>14354038
Nah, way in the beginning he was going on about being a member of SOLDIER and such. He gave that up fairly quick, though.

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don't mind me, just best stoic protagonist in all of /m/ here

>>14354137
In the actual video game he wasn't edgy either. Even when he thought he was in soldier he had zero problems with just dicking around, in fact he did it often. He was a dork even when he thought he was in SOLDIER.

>>14305718
>And if they don't care, why should I?

self-insertfag detected

>>14355360
Anon is pretty saying the opposite of this though.

>>14346519
Uh, compared to the average ojou-sama girl that would be put into her position, she's pretty stellar (See Cagalli who never stops being incompetent nor focuses on her real strengths), but if you mean whether or not she's amazing as in she's a genius then absolutely not.

She got where she is right now in the story through being very lucky, and having other people sacrifice a lot for her. That is what can qualify as amazing since the odds of meeting so many great people like Tekkadan and Turbines is slim to none.

It's kinda why all the adults basically give her titles like she's destiny's child.

If I had to give a comparison, she is to IBO as to what Canute is to Vinland Saga, only this time instead of a bunch of vikings that kidnapped you that make fun of you as girly, it's a bunch of orphans that think you're a saint.

Hell Mika and Thorfinn are also manlets and both rely on their reaction speed and self-honed style to shit on everyone.

Which I guess means Askeladd is Orga?

>>14355517
Got it, so you're saying Kudelia really is sugoi. I wasn't quite clear before.

>>14349399
>He fought multiple Gn-Xs which have the same specs as the Gundams

That's not true at all, it really doesn't matter what the box numbers say those specs are, cause those GN-Xs can still get one shot whenever the show feels like it, while Exia and 00 will just get dents and scratches.

And in S2, the Arche is nowhere near the level of bullshit of the 00 Raiser. Hell it's the most outdated mecha in the final episodes unless you count Kataron and the welfare squadron. Everyone else had new shit and the best pilot is stuck with an ugly Zwei DLC kit.

What do you think would have happened if Ribbons cloned Ali instead of some retarded innovator?

>>14355529
Probably the same as if Glemmy decided that an army of Yazans would be funnier than an army of Purus. Which they would have been by far, and assuming they age at an accelerated rate they would have been ready to absolutely make a mess of CCA. And they would have fired on Amuro during Axis Shock, you know it.

>>14355519
Oh she is, just not through her own ability. Honestly she's just a less overpowered Lacus.

Hard to say whether she's well written, but I'm mostly trying to say she's consistently written. There's nothing that goes "What the fuck, since when was she that X or Y?".

Kinda like LOGH you know? You can argue how everyone is so unrealistically incompetent, but at least EVERYONE is incompetent to the point where you can kinda immerse yourself into believing a guy like Andrew Fork could possibly make his way up a military organization.

>>14355536
Well humanity would at least regain all the population it lost from all that violating. Sounds like a win-win scenario to me.

>>14355519

Not as sugoi as Patrick.

>>14355545
I'd love to see a post-apocalyptic Earth of UC 0113 where the planet looks like something out of Dougram or Xabungle and the basically everyone running around is a Yazan rape baby.
>back-stabbing
>gang wars over something insignificant and both sides know it, they just want to fight
>stupid tattoos and lots of ass-slapping
>the women are just as insane or cruel as the guys and just as willing to violate anyone outside of the gene pool, and often within

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>>14355550
Sugoi

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>>14355568
Like this?

>>14355593
Looks about right.

CAN'T STOP

>>14355568
I wouldn't mind that either, though I'd rather have that as a sequel to a full season of straight up warfare.

Usually a Gundam series has a massive time skip when going about different eras. Wouldn't it be cool to have a 25-50 episodes of professional competent warfare (Therefore must be written and directed by Ark Performance) followed immediately by the post-apocalyptic setting for the next 25-50 episodes? That's never been done in Gundam.

It'd be interesting just for the fact that in S1 you'd have escalating technology only for S2 to be regressive and more about survival and maintaining what you got left.

But who am I kidding? That's like asking for SRW and Fire Emblem for PC in English.

>>14305654
I liked Mika in that he wasn't the only competent person in the show. every goddamn episode of A/Z you see professional soldiers eating shit and dying and this autist that can do math and look out of cameras just saves the day no matter what.

>>14305718

>Someone like Setsuna, on the other hand, seemed a lot more like a living plot device or a weapon than a character with actual emotions or ideas

I understand what you mean but take in mind that young Setsuna was literally raised/brainwashed to be an emotionless living weapon in order to be useful for Sli's contractors.

>>14359495
Not Sli but Ali, fucking phone autocorrector.

>>14359495
I have trouble understanding how people can excuse Mika for doing it but not Setsuna when he has a better reason to be the way he is. How would poor and orphaned make a person a stoic attack dog compared to brain washed into murdering parents to fight for a worthless cause? And despite this, Setsuna still show emotions and actually has an inner struggle that helps flesh out his character better. Mika's only "development" seems to be how he accepted Kudelia, which is mostly Kudelia's lousy plot demanding development.

>>14359644
>How would poor and orphaned make a person a stoic attack dog compared to brain washed into murdering parents to fight for a worthless cause?

Because Setsuna only had a shitty life briefly as a kid. Then he got picked up by CB and lived pretty comfortably. Mika has always had it shit since day 1 and it never got better.

>>14359729
>only briefly
He spent most of his life under Ali and being trained as a terrorist child soldier before CB picked him up due to Ribbon's fascination with Setsuna's hero worship of him when he saved the kid's life.

>lived pretty comfortably
You're pretty retarded.

>>14355529
>What do you think would have happened if Ribbons cloned Ali instead of some retarded innovator?
The Innovators would've won then. But remember its a moot point even speaking hypothetically because Ribbons was scared of Ali's skill of a pilot so much that's why the Arche never got upgraded and Ali never had Trans-AM.

It does suck ass the best pilot or at least one of the very best, is stuck using an outdated suit throughout most of season 2.

>>14359729
Setsuna was a child soldier until at least age 12 when CB picked him up. Almost all of his friends growing up with him and fighting next to him during the Krugis/Azadistan war were killed or became suicide bombers, he was brainwashed into murdering his own parents, and the experiences left him so numb and that questioned God's existence and mankind's purpose.

I would say Setsuna had it far worse then Mika ever did.

Eh, I prefer protags like Simon (post TS) or Kamina. Call it generic, but they're usually fun to watch

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>>14305805
>>14305796
I seriously think they're just planning on making his entire character arc based on what he becomes in the first season. He's inhuman, that's kinda the point of him.

The more and more he uses Barbatos, the more and more the nanites convert his brain to only function as a combat machine. The point of the machine itself is to be the actual peak of the AV system, because it's actually integrating with the brain entirely, unlike fuckboy in his full-body mech.

The might make him the antagonist.

>>14349774
>>14349811
He didn't have the education. And genius takes a few forms.

If you were going to mbti type him, he would be an INTP
>Think logically
>More concerned about others than himself (fe)
>Doesn't take care of himself
>Pursues his vocation to a pathological and self destructive degree
>Oblivious to social customs
And INTPs are the stereotypical stereotype personality, though the vast majority of them aren't.

>>14362875
Wow, I wrote that all kinds of fucked up

>>14362846
He's basically the same from start to finish then. If he actually started as more human it would be understandable or sort of interesting that he becomes more machine like. But he started out as a machine and making him more machine means that he's basically the same, kinda like A/Z S2

>>14362885
I think once the fighting stops and time passes, we'll actually get to see the psychological impact it had. Soldiers in war zones often don't register anything until after they leave battle. Not that I think he'll get PTSD, but...

...I dunno. Maybe once they're not in battle all the time (for all of an episode) people are going to start wondering why he acts like he does. The have options. A good writer could do something pretty good with Mika's character as he is.

That, or he's just a foil for other characters.

Ayy