Votoms criticism thread

>>14303780
>-the dated animation that didn't age as good as MSG, for example

I want to know from which parallel universe you are posting from where animation of MSG has aged good.

Besides, I have always found the "aged animation" to be a hollow argument considering the show string budget Japanese animation company has worked and has been the practice for long (and also taking account of the time period and it's nature of product being weekly show than a feature length film ) and more like a weak excuse in case for not picking it up.

>-most of the cast, like the terrible comic relief side characters

It was meant to balance out the overall Grim and stoic display of the Protagonist, which I found alright, and time to time did recused the MC. Which brings us to-

>the overused "hero winning against all odds" trope, that even if partly explained by the story doesn't excuse all the times where the baddies miss all their shots against the protag so that he can win (especially annoying in Mellowlink).

A big plot point in the tv series that culiminates in a big showdown of eternal battle of fate and free will plus Chirico did got his ass handed most of the time and managed to get through for his pragmatism until the reveal at the end of Sunsa Arc. While Mellowlink did had silly luck on his side many time, you gotta have to commend him for having gigantic balls to take a leap of faith.

>What is so great about Votoms anyway?
Simple - you don't see this kind of stuff everyday. The aspects you already mentioned (it's hard SF and the plot), makes it quite unique for it's time and even today , I would dare say. You can't find the charm of everyone using those mini mechs (compared to average size of Japanese mechs ) and those battles with such gritt and industrial aesthetics.And that Gun and missile arsenal minus flashy laser dance. Plus it had perfect ending ,which brings us to your next question
1/2

>>14304160
>So, my question is : should I bother with the rest of the saga?

The watchables:
If you are not a completionist or just want to see only the good stuff - Go with 3 OVA that were made in 80s - Last Red Shoulder, Roots of Ambition and Big Battle. 2 of them are prequel while Big battle is a sort of middle-prequel that happens one years before the final scenes of the last episode of the tv series. Don't mess with overall plot and have best 2d Scopedog action animation as a benefit of OVA budget and small span.

Passables if you are curious -
Pailsen Files: Another prequel OVA with computer CGI. Okay plot and some interesting scenario ,very average at the end.
Case;Irvine: Unrelated to main series side story.Pretty much staple affair dealing with a battling pilot cum mechanic with a past he want to forget related his days in Kummen.
Votom Finders: Apart from name, nothing to do with Votoms Universe. Short underdog Shonen dreaming big story.

The dreaded:
The sequel OVAs (as in their chronoloigcal order ) -Shinning Heresy , Along again and Phantom Arc are the one that will give a feeling of sand in your mouth after it's completion.
As a glaring example of corporate greed and fanboy fanaticism, the ending of tv series is spoiled for the sake of 3 isolated and short OVA that makes no sense and purpose.
If you want to see them anyway , well Shinning Heresy is quite good until the last 6 minutes of the final episode, Phantom Arc begins abruptly with one character missing and seems to conclude Chirico's story overall, while Alone again , well the name spoils it what is going to happen if you have seen shinning heresy only or both. So here, chronological order of things have been recommended.

>>14304202
2/2

>>14304160
>considering the show string budget Japanese animation company has worked and has been the practice for long (and also taking account of the time period and it's nature of product being weekly show than a feature length film )

considering the shoe string budget Japanese animation company has worked upon and has been the practice for long (and also taking account of the time period and it's nature of product being weekly show than a feature length film )

Addendum- Besides it was big gamble on Sunrise 's part for making such shows like Votoms around that time, which also explains the 13 ep arc nature of the show so that it dosen't ends abruptly. No wonder things to more metaphysical aspect of the show in later half after it's consolidated it's position.
A conjecture on my part.

0/10

here's your (You)

>>14304202
clean up your english jesus

>>14304249
I am still learning it ,please pardon my mistakes and if you wish , correct me so it will help me to improve.

>he's moved on to trolling Votoms now
Truly a dark age for /m/ - Random that is upon us

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>>14303780
I liked VOTOMS, but I'd have liked it more if I had different expectations. Everyone yammers on and on about it being hard as hell mecha sci-fi. I disagree. It's harder than many Real Robot series, it's not very hard at all. (However, I feel it's the Realest of Real Robots because the mecha design is extremely practical by mecha standards,) For example, they have FTL Tech which is completely unexplained, and when they go into FTL, we just see them firing up their thrusters. Not to mention Wiseman's powers are waved away as SUPER SCIENCE. That's Super-Robot levels of Sci-fi right there. I don't know why people call this a super hard sci-fi series. It's not. Hell, Gundam's harder sci-fi outside of the newtype hax and mecha design. That said, I DO actually like VOTOMS, and I think it's a good series. I just wish people wouldn't pretend it's this super hard, realistic sci-fi series.

>>14304269
We have a poster counter, you know.

>>14304269
I don't think anyone said it's hard sci-fi,outside the mecha and action related to it.
Heavy Gear, the inspired western /tg/ franchise on the other hand is considered hard sci-fi , despite having good ol FTL.

And Wiseman being too much powerful like a literal God makes sense for having super science stuff.

I just finished the show myself, and let me just say that it was the most refreshing thing in the world to see combined arms actually being a valid tactic.

The only real negative I had about the show is that Chirico's motivations got progressively weaker. They certainly start off pretty strong, with him wanting to find and stop the people who keep trying to kill him. Then the second arc is mostly about him wanting to rescue his love interest, which is sensible. But after that, it really breaks down. Him wanting to have a showdown with Ypsilon for the hell of it and then wanting to find out the secret to his past despite how much danger it put him and everyone around him in and then him wanting to blow up Wiseman when he could have just ignored it and skipped town entirely, sparing an entire planet were all just weak.

I kept asking myself "why are you doing any of this?" by the end of the show.

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>>14304488
You'd like Dougram too in that case.

The only problem I have with Votoms is that Fyana pretty much becomes dead weight after she finally sticks with Chirico.

>>14304488
>and then him wanting to blow up Wiseman when he could have just ignored it and skipped town entirely

Which assumes:

A) Wiseman wouldn't just teleport him back.

B) Wiseman wouldn't do shit like get all of Chirico's friends killed to attempt to bring him back

>>14305132
Wiseman really didn't seem all that powerful outside of certain areas of Quaint and its mothership planet thing. It seemed like Chirico had at least one or two chances to walk away, though granted, the Gilgamesh and Balarant forces definitely were on his ass. I think they might have been regardless, though.

we need to nuke /a/

>>14305258
I saw Wiseman differently.
He's spent his lifespan subtly manipulating people all over inhabited space, achieving goals as broad as directing galactic wars and as narrow as having one Chirico Cuvie delivered to his doorstep. Compare this to the Mule from Asimov's Foundation series.
His true power, which we don't see directly, is the ability to see all over the universe, permeating any veils of secrecy, and make people do his bidding. In technological terms, he could be sitting on an ancient communication network, which he taps for information and uses to apply mind control or more subtle manipulation techniques.
The stuff we do see, such as the Quaint facility and the mothership, is a lower level function, concerned with sustaining Wiseman's consciousness and protecting him in case his puppets fail. An immune system, perhaps.
It's like the frail physical body of an old but extremely powerful ruler - a vital condition for his power, but not its source or its cause.

>>14305274
Don't know what the /a/ boogeyman has to do with this.

>>14305489
So was Wiseman going to transfer his consciousness into Chirico, or would he just upload his knowledge to him? Was it going to be a possession or a passing on the torch deal?

>>14305691

I took it as Wiseman uploading all of his information to Chirico, but the series isn't sure.

>>14304313
I didn't say it didn't make sense, I just said because of that, it's not that hard of sci-fi. Having FTL doesn't make a series soft sci-fi, it merely makes it slightly softer. VOTOMS' FTL is just firing up thrusters, which is silly. Overall the series still probably qualifies as hard sci-fi, just not as hard as /m/ led me to believe.

>>14306409
/m/ naturally has a focus on the mechs when it talks about the sci-fi elements, so that's why, though I'm not sure why you care. How realistic it is in no way indicates the quality of the storytelling.

But of course, if you must have that in your shows, I suggest you go and watch Dai Guard. It doesn't get any more real than Dai Guard.

>>14306439
NO
HE HEARD FROM SOMEONE THAT THIS WAS THE HARDEST OF SCI-FI
SO WHEN HE WATCHED IT AND IT DIDN'T MEET HIS ARBITRARY CRITERIA OF BEING THE HARDEST OF HARD
HE COULD NOT ENJOY IT
AND IT SUCKED

>>14305274
From the few discussions I saw on /a/ about VOTOMS, no one really dislikes it.

>>14305258
Ok, so spoilers for one of the later OVAs.

In Phantom Arc, Wiseman's back (he had a backup built on a secondary planet incase someone ever did manage to pull the plug on him), and he teleports Chirico, Ru Shako, and a few other people from Sunsa to that planet.

>>14306439
It's more of an expectation did not meet reality. That said, I agree. It in no way relates to the quality of the storytelling. I might have to try Dai Guard at some point though.

>>14306409
>/m/ led me to believe

Well I don't know whether you were there but a vast majority on /m/ says it a fantasy series based on the Clarke's Third law.

>>14306621
Well Clarke did say that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so take anything surrounding Wiseman like that, I mean consider how it is 85,000 year older than any entity in the series.
Plus the FTL wasn't touched upon in the tv series,s o I don't think it is much of a concern in 1st place.

>>14303780
>dated animation

Why do I always hear this? I liked the animation in ATV. It wasn't high-quality, but it was more than watchable. The city scenes especially. Easy to do on a low budget, when you think about it, but visually appealing as well.

>>14309072
I actually thought it was pretty good, but then again, I also watched it just after watching Macross 7. I'm very used to shows that make extensive use of lazy hit flashes, cross counters and stock footage. I sat through all of God Mars, for christ's sake. VOTOMS had barely any of those things outside of reusing footage for recaps and having a few clip show episodes. That makes it pretty above average for a mecha show in my opinion.

>>14303780
>the dated animation that didn't age as good as MSG, for example

I don't have an eye-rolling image worthy of this one, if anything Votoms has better and more consistent animation than MSG.

I'll say the main reason why everyone is in love with the show is because its different from alot of anime. Its one of my favorites.

>protagonist
Chirico is just different from the average anime protagonist.

Chirico has unwavering determination. He also deals with his stress in a different way than the average mecha protagonist. He doesn't feel sad or wallow in self-pity like Shinji does and he doesn't lashout at people the way Kamille does. I'm not saying Shinji and Kamille are bad characters, its just their behavior is much more common in anime than Chirico.

It also allows for people who deal with their stress in the way Chirico does to finally find a character they can emotionally relate with. Those type of individuals that are used to bottling up emotions really wouldn't identify with Shinji or Kamille as much.

Chirico is also 20+ at the beginning of Votoms I recall. This makes him very different just for that.

>characters
The dialogue didn't feel forced and felt pretty natural for the most part.

>mecha designs
Not many shows have grunt mecha as the center of the show. Just do to the nature of the designs and the way the mecha behaved, it felt like less of a toy commercial. Not saying anything is wrong with that, I love GaoGaiGar and G Gundam.

>universe
The world also left you wanting more. It was pretty mysterious. I wish they had done more with the Gilgamesh conflict.

>animation
Pretty average for the time. OVAs were better.

>Critiques

The three side characters were kind of annoying. They could have dealt with them better. What happened to Poterra in one of the OVAs was unnecessary. Fyana's mech being pink ruined the realism. Shining Heresy was pretty forgettable.

>>14309447
>unwavering determination
Exactly my thoughts. His motivations seem looser as the show goes on, but he's still going to see everything through because that's just the kind of person he is. Ain't gonna leave a job half-finished.

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>>14309447
>Chirico is just different from the average anime protagonist.
There are a lot of silent protags, such as Kenshiro or Heero. Granted, Chirico is really well written unlike a lot of the others.

>Chirico is also 20+ at the beginning of Votoms I recall.
He's seventeen.

That said, Votoms is my favorite anime of all time.

>The three side characters were kind of annoying. They could have dealt with them better.
Oh hell no, you punk.

>Fyana's mech being pink ruined the realism
It was salmon colored and just as pink as Char's Zaku.

>Shining Heresy was pretty forgettable.
Stahp

Am I the only one that actually liked everything

I love Shining Heresy too

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>>14309492
No, you're not. I'm with you.

>>14309492
Shining is good for the awesome 2d action, same for Irvine

PF, PA, AA and Finder are radioactive tier. They really ruined Chirico's story with all the unneeded sequels...

They should have animated Command Vorct and Blue Knight Bersega instead of all the trash we got

>>14309166
Yeah, VOTOMS' lack of stock footage is what always gets me about its animation. Dougram was fairly good about that too, though it had a lot of fucking recap episodes and it did have its occasional bits of stock problems. Maybe it doesn't look 100% best, but that's still pretty damn good for its time - consider that shows like SDF Macross, Dancouga, and all manner of classics that came out later had worse animation.

>>14309492
Shining Heresy's not bad, but it's the beginning of a steady downward decline that ended up making fucking Alone Again. It's still on the upside, and arguably Pailsen Files was too (It does some things very bad and other things very good, it really depends on what you weigh more and that's all opinion), but compare them to Roots or Big Battle and it's kind of lesser.

>>14303780
>You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18

>>14309447
>Those type of individuals that are used to bottling up emotions really wouldn't identify with Shinji or Kamille as much.
I haven't seen Zeta, but just how many scenes were there of Shinji listening to his damn cassette player instead of finding an actual outlet for all of his accumulated misery?

>>14303780
>most of the cast, like the terrible comic relief side characters

I sort of agree, the final arc could've done without the comic relief trio but most other characters were pretty good imo.
I say 'most' because Fyana got progressively more and more useless and flat, down to the point where most of her lines consisted of repeating Chirico's name.

I also agree on Mellowlink being garbage, it made me drop VOTOMS after I loved the main series.

Everything else you said, I really can't agree with.

>>14309688
hating Mellowlink shoud be a bannable offense

>>14303780
Shining Heresy has excellent animation for its time (the 90s) that still holds up today, though your mileage may vary when it comes to the plot ( ;_; )

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This became vaporware

>>14309718
>Shining Heresy has excellent animation for its time (the 90s) that still holds up today
I find that to be a really strange statement given that animation quality doesn't correspond with technology within the context of the 20th and 21st century. I mean, a lot of stuff from the 30s and 40s has better animation than the things you see today. The early 90s were full of high budget animation. I realize I'm nitpicking, so don't take it personally.

>>14309741
Yeah, I could have phrased that better--the OP mentioned he didn't think the original VOTOM's animation aged well, so I wanted to say that Shining Heresy still looks good, despite being about 20 years old.

>the 90s were 20 years ago

Man, I feel old...

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>>14309751
Oh, I see your point and I apologize. That said, OP a shit.

>>14304496
Not that guy but how high is Dougram on the grim scale?
The first episode started off with a woman seeing a busted mech and thinking back about her friends who I suppose are all dead, even fucking Ideon started on a happier note.

>>14309766
Without spoiling stuff, I can say the ending is bittersweet.

>>14309518
>Command Vorct
Need more info on , it seems google cannot tell what I am searching for.

>>14309766
It's not that grim, first episode's a little misleading.
>>14309797 is definitely on the money though; the ending is bittersweet.

>"mech"
>not mecha
C'mon.

>>14309766
Doug's first episode doesn't actually have a period in the series' chronology it can happen in, it was made as a pitch to Sunrise and to reassure people that Dougram, in fact, was a robot that the hero piloted because it takes like 7 eps for it to even appear.

>>14310883

it's a novel or photo novel, I think.

>>14309726
The hell is this?

>>14317732
new novel by Takahashi that was supposed to have come out in Fall 2015

>>14303780
>"hero winning against all odds" trope
>trope

You must be 18+ to post on 4chan kiddo. Also, Chirico rarely "wins" throughout the course of Votoms, he usually just barely succeeds in not dying.

>>14317752
Do you mean that it came out but no one in the west has talked about it or that it didn't come out?

>>14317946
never released or even any new info surfaced besides the announcement

>>14317960
Shit sucks.

>>14303780
>dated
I should really stop reading right here. Is there another buzzword that flags someone as having no idea what they're talking about or well-articulated criticism like "dated"? No.

>hero winning against all odds trope
Welcome to media. Watch the fucking show. You don't even know.

>>14317752
What's the actual title, hotshot

>>14309492
I liked the show and all of the Chirico-centric side-story stuff, plus Mellowlink. Never bothered with Irvine or Finder.

>>14309726
Just read Blue Knight and pretend like it came out recently.

>>14304269
>I just wish people wouldn't pretend it's this super hard, realistic sci-fi series.

That might happen when we finally discover the cure for autism.

>>14307323
>fantasy series based on the Clarke's Third law

So, Votoms is just like Gundam?

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>>14309447
>Chirico is also 20+ at the beginning of Votoms I recall.

He was no older than 18.

>>14322092
But more realistic.