Should Giant Robots have Giant Guns?

>>14220428
>attempting to apply logic, realism, et cetera to giant robots at any point in time

Get outta here

>>14220428
Modular weapons have their advantages.
Drop your gun? Pick up a new one.
If your gun is internal, then shit's fucked if it breaks.

>>14220428
In Gundam, it's handwaved about it because mobile suits are actually surprisingly dexterous and able to control their strength quite well. In a side material manga, even pre-production Zakus (technically closer to the Waff than the Zaku I, the grandaddy of all mobile suits) are able to pick up plexiglass boxes with a wineglass inside filled with water without spilling it.

In other series, it depends entirely on the size of the mecha. If they're big enough that having hands is dumb, then yeah, then it's dumb.

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What kind of stupid question is that?!

For versatility, since the robot may need a different weapon for different situations, so it can have more options than a giant robot with built-in arm guns. And if the gun breaks, repairs will be more difficult, since then they would have to repair the entire arm instead of just giving a new gun.

large guns are large because they wouldn't fit into the arm in the first place. zeon's various aquatic models have arms ending in large bulbs because they have to pack a short barrel mega particle gun as well as a secondary like "iron nail" melee weapons.

in any case, usually the reasoning for humanoid hands is circular logic - they have hands because they have human-like weapons because they have hands, and so on. there's no reason why they can't have built-in armaments instead, and there actually are some (like the example mentioned above) so if nothing else then it's usually for aesthetic choice.

if I had to try and come up with a technical reason, it'd be because of ease of maintenance and modular resupply and loading. no need to bring back the entire machine to base/ship and have the engineers take off the arm armor to service and reload the weapon if the weapon can be swapped for another one or reloaded. that and for most weapons, the longer and larger it is, the more accuracy and firepower it can deliver.

I don't understand your argument about costs for manufacturing, you'd have to design a gun that sits flush in the arm and that would restrict what sort of gun it is, how it operates, etc. the only thing that matters when it comes to cost and manufacturing is complexity and how many of the things you're building. mass production brings down costs. a weapon can be less complex if it isn't required to fit within a certain volume of space or inside an enclosure, because fewer requirements naturally mean less restriction on the gun itself.

whether or not it needs a scope has nothing to do with whether it's built in or not. a lot of gundam weapons require scopes and sights on the weapons themselves because they are acquiring targets optically rather than by radar, they actually do need to line up the barrel to make sure it will fire on target (when using direct fire of course)

I don't mind giant firearms for robots, I get annoyed when they're basically just scaled up versions of regular firearms. A twenty foot death machine shouldn't be using a scaled up pump action shotgun and be feeding the shells in manually, as cool as it is it makes no sense to design something of that size that way. Just making hands dexterous enough to use them in the first place is an enormous waste of resources and engineering that could be put towards something else.

The only time they've played it straight and I could get over my own autism was Patlabor >>14220447, which had the audacious excuse of having a psychological overpowering effect on criminals and multiple explanations for how a firearm that size would even function. That and the sight of Noa laboriously emptying out revolver casings the size of cannon shells was adorable.

>>14220475
>I don't understand your argument about costs for manufacturing, you'd have to design a gun that sits flush in the arm and that would restrict what sort of gun it is, how it operates, etc. the only thing that matters when it comes to cost and manufacturing is complexity and how many of the things you're building. mass production brings down costs. a weapon can be less complex if it isn't required to fit within a certain volume of space or inside an enclosure, because fewer requirements naturally mean less restriction on the gun itself

Wouldn't the sheer size and weight of a regular beam rifle/machine gun cost more than a smaller one integrated into the arms for mass production or a simple machine gun in the arms? Couldn't what you'd save on resources cover the cost for the complexity required?I'd assume mobile suit arms could only handle so much load so the designers would have to work around this, and would undoubtedly come up with a design that requires less metal/other materials so that the arms still function.

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Why not have both integrated weapons and giant hands for giant guns?

I kinda' figured the hands held an amount of automation when it came to weapon handling. Unicorn had weapon that basically needed to install a driver before he could even fire it, though I wouldn't say that's proof of anything. So a MS goes to grab a gun, some auto-fill on hand placement occurs, then boom: you're rarin' to go. We've seen hands deal with fine control in most Gundams, usually when working with people. It's a little odd to me though that guns are often used inline with the MS head's eyes with giant scopes, but it makes more "mecha sense" than some kinda visual feed from the weapon when the weapon can be freely manipulated.

Though MS controls are all over the place. Pedals and joysticks don't really add up and aren't shown consistently. Even in the same show pedals can go from controlling legs to controlling thrusters with the same press.

Side thought: are beamsabers drawing power from the MS to work?

>>14220540
Depending on source material, yes they are drawing from the MS's generator for power.

>>14220428
It's fine as long as you aren't autistic or a realisticuck

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>>14220428
As, >>14220442 have said: Many mecha series have used the re-purposed construction equipment that earn a niche in battlefeild strategies, so robotic manipulator hands are still used. Other reasons have been giant enemies, "but, they have robots" arms race, "*shrug* it's super magic fuck yeah", no explanation, and giant mechanical wrestling children's show selling toys.

>>14220434
>Implying a cumbersome and limited human hand is the only way to connect to an object on the fly

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BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HUG YOUR CHILDREN WITH GUN ARMS!

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>>14220534
Giant hands that are integrated weapons are best.

As long as it looks cool, it's ok.

>>14220428
>Can anyone here actually explain a tangible benefit to having giant robots use giant guns with finger holes and such ,instead of having weapons integrated into the arms?

Climbing, handholding, catching itself after a fall, standing up, hanging onto a flying support vehicle, etc.

>>14220696
>handholding
lewd

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>>14220628
Cont.

For why manipulators in human controlled robotics construction equipment: It's actually being tested in those fields, and it's easy to believe that humanoid hands would make some sense. Especially, with glove controls. Though, why no-one uses double-thumb hands like in Zone of the Enders is beyond me. It would be so much cheaper and space saving.

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>>14220704
>>14220696
>tfw senpai holds your hand like a lover

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>>14220719

>>14220722
Too lewd.
This is a blue board, anon.

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>>14220722

>>14220527
>Wouldn't the sheer size and weight cost more than a smaller one or a simpler one?
Sure, but then you'd be giving up firepower for compactness. A small gun wouldn't do the same thing as a big gun. You or the designer or the intended user needs to take into account what the gun is meant to do and how big it needs to be to do that job. There are small machine guns that are only effective against infantry, lightly armored, or unarmored targets, and large machine cannons that are direct fire artillery.

Beam weapons are different in that even fairly small beam weapons can do enough damage to cripple or destroy most mobile suits in sometimes as few as just one shot, but larger weapons can have more versatility. Many of the UC Federation's MS carry dinky beam guns that are more like beam pistols. At close and even medium ranges they're fairly decent, but an actual beam rifle with a longer barrel can fire more accurate shots at longer ranges, or feature different firing modes, or last longer before running out.

>Couldn't what you'd save on resources cover the cost for the complexity required?
Depends on a bunch of factors, really. Nearly most examples of "we need to save resources when manufacturing guns" that I can recall are either reducing complexity (fewer parts, simpler mechanisms) and using different materials or construction methods (stamp pressings, alternative metals and polymers, etc). In WWII this was common. I can't remember any examples of gunsmithing and weapons designers saying "keep it complicated but use as little material as possible" because that sounds like a recipe for substandard quality and mechanisms breaking down due to thin/weak parts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_submachine_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten

>>14220540
Yes as evident when Shiro adjusted the thermal intensity through a control panel inside the arm, unless that's just and integrated perk.

Is that why there's a chip on the palm? Is that for power supply or weapons system integration? Or both

Also when dealing with large weapons, you have to ponder about carrying capacity of the arm itself, weight/balance and their ability to work against gravity if you're on land

>>14220540
>are beamsabers drawing power from the MS to work?
They hold their own capacitors but need to recharge by connecting to a MS's generator through a beam saber rack.

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>>14220428

>>14220482
>as cool as it is, it-
If you don't understand what's wrong with this thought process, you probably don't belong here.

>>14220428
I've been away from /m/ since 2013. What show is this?

>>14221242
Gundam Unicorn OVA, which is complete. Now they're running it as retouched episodes.

>>14221245
thanks!

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>>14220722
>tfw senpai makes you explode while holding your hand

>>14220540
They aren't scopes, they're sensor packages. "Downscoping" is just to align the two sets.

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>giant robot has a giant gun
>giant robot has no hardpoints or attachments for quick stowing and retrieval of giant gun
>giant robot literally has to drop the giant gun before doing anything with its manipulator

>>14220428

The reason for using a human-form firearm is to allow easier connection with a human-form machine.

This however, is completely negated by the control scheme in most shows: You gain no advantage from a congruent manipulator if you don't use a congruent control scheme.

A Mecha is an reasonably understandable choice in light armored vehicle if an MMI can be used to allow the pilot to apply 20-30 years of human locomotion to Mecha locomotion. If you don't have that connection, there's zero reason for a humanoid machine, much less one with hands.

>>14221684
Wat. Protags and grunt suits have hardpoints.
Even the Zaku has hardpoints to stow the Heat hawk.

>>14221684
>giant robot exists in the first place

There is no reaction image there to state how stupid and garbage that is.

>>14221692
>there's zero reason for a humanoid machine

Could have just typed that and saved all the wasted time with the nothing you typed along with it.

>>14221614
Yeah. It just seems pointless to align them than triangulate

>>14221726

Some of us actually have background in haptics and bio-mechanics.

When the loaders start seeing use, it'll only be logical to make them larger to move larger material with better control and cheaper training.

15m qualifies as a giant robot. And it only takes some asshole to make a technical out of one.

But go ahead and post the copy-pasta about how modern tanks are the pinnacle of force multiplier. DARPA's a bit busy working on lighter, faster and more agile machines.

>>14221740

Nobody cares what shitty degree you wasted your time getting, cuckold.

>>14220482

The Kampfer had pump shotguns that it discarded after each use. But they could be recovered if need be.

>>14220879

The gatlings in unicorn are a special case. banana uses a Stg44 from Neo Zeon with little problem after running out of ammo for the magnum.

>>14220482

Lol 37mm.

>>14221757

You're the one getting angry at the future.

Power loaders are coming, because maintenance is less than workman's comp and AI is always a decade away.

You're right though, no one cares about my degree. They're too busy ignoring me while I keep their obsolete crap running. It's a thankless job, but there's something about being essentially useful that's satisfying. You should try it sometime.

>>14221757
You seems butthurt anon

>>14221786

Don't take the b8

>>14221786
I'm far and away more useful than you ever will be, Mr. Projector.

>>14221791
Not as much as the other anon, evidently.

>>14221806

For all of our sake, I hope you're right Mr. Strawman.

>>14221731

Sensor "length" can be very important for focusing on a signal.

>instead of giant robot and giant guns, we choose NO Us

>>14221684
Muv Luv

Having hands to hold a gun is much better tactically than sticking gun onto your limbs because firstly as said in this thread - doing hand things, secondly you have much more control over your weapons, by holding the gun with your hand means you have another pivot point to move the gun around easier and allow for shooting out of cover.
The thing i hate about this subject is about really GIANT guns on MS, like it's so big the MS has to turn their entire body to move the gun, at that point the MS became a tank, all the advantages of having hands are lost here

>>14222307
>like it's so big the MS has to turn their entire body to move the gun, at that point the MS became a tank
the proper term is self-propelled gun

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>>14222155
?