Did Kabuto as a show solely exist to make little kids cry or what?

>>13959198
This is like the one good part of Kabuto outside of zany Dark Kitchen shit. Shame Sasword's character was so butchered for the entire middle act of the show, because this part is great.

Eh, I dunno, the second half was pretty damn goofy, almost on par with Den-O. And the ending is one of the more uplifting ones of the early Heisei era, especially when compared to Ryuki, Faiz and Blade.

>>13959198
Nah, it solely exist to make housewives wet, except it couldn't even did that right because Hibiki made bigger numbers on the female demographic.

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>>13959222
But comic relief Tsurugi was great.

>>13959255
Comic relief Tsurugi really bothers me.

Like, when he first shows up he's the first character to ever rival Tendou in terms of skills. Tendou actually has to exert himself to keep up with him. And then it's like they decided "nope, can't have that". How are we supposed to suck Tendou's cock if he's not completely unchallenged at everything? So suddenly Tsurugi becomes so stupid that at one point he literally doesn't know how to dress himself, and he stays that way up until the Worm reveal at which point he suddenly becomes smart and competent again.

>>13959266

That's one of the issues created by Yonemura and Inoue's writing clashing so much in Kabuto. Yonemura was supposed to be the main writer, but Inoue clearly wrote in a very different way from him, leading to many inconsistencies as far as tone and direction go.

So, Inoue introduces Sasword as this rival character to Tendo... except in most Yonemura episodes Kagami is the actual point of view character and focus, so he quickly gets shafted from that position into comic relief, and then eventually becoming best friends with KA-GAMIII.

However, Sasword's final arc was written by Inoue again, after not writing basically any episodes focused on him aside from his introduction, so suddenly his connection to Kagami becomes fairly irrelevant and he's all about going to Tendo to finish everything with him, since that was how Inoue wanted the character.

>>13959279
Kabuto's whole writing process really was a mess. That's why it baffles me so much that people keep recommending it as someone's first Rider show. Like, do people seriously look at the W-Ghost run and go "yeah, Kabuto is pretty indicative of the quality of these shows"?

Kabuto's 1st half wasn't clean of flaws too, but at least the presentation and witty nature is there to make it not so much of a derivative work from past rider shows. Unfortunately, they lost it all in the 2nd half as of the Dark Kitchen arc:

>Clock Up barely ever shows up, Hyper Clock Up much less
>The introduction to a new species of Worms that asspulled an ending of its own
>The complete shit-take on characters you would have initially liked, including Drake and the Hopper Bros.
>Hiyori remains more pointless than ever, even the twist did not surprise the viewers or give them any reason to care

And the list goes on. The main faults are definitely the writers collision, as well as budget issues, last-minute toy advertisement, and preparations for Den-O.

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>>13959304
Kabuto is terribly inconsistent, true, but it's also the first Heisei Rider show that's regularly "fun." Den-O does "fun" better but has no real plot to speak of, while most Post-Decade shows fall into the same general formula that makes them not all that different from each other.

I guess the recommendation for Kabuto comes from the combination of cool suits, slick action, good mystery (at least in the first half) and funny shenanigans (once the mystery flies out the window). No Rider show has ever achieved "perfect" (though Agito comes close in my personal opinion), but Kabuto is a fairly decent blend of variety that makes it at the very least enjoyable by most standards.

>>13959369
Kabuto was my first rider and I got so feud up with its bullshit that I refused to watch rider for a long, long time. Fortunately, my next rider was Agito.

>>13959304
I recommend it as a first Rider mostly to people new to tokusatsu, due to it having higher quality effect and not as many silly looking suits as other shows.

Also, although the story is problematic, it's not problematic in the way that someone who only knows about Power Rangers or something might think it'd be.

If they are already used to Sentai or Power Rangers quality effects and suits though, yeah, there are better introductions.

>>13959304
Kabuto is the perfect of example of everything both good and bad in KR in one series. If someone can stomach that, they can handle the rest of the franchise

Also, I recommend it as a first because it was my first so you know.

>>13959369
>>13959585
See, I think nowadays my recommendation would be OOO over Kabuto. A first show should tell you what to expect from the franchise, and Kabuto tells you that the writing is going to be pretty atrocious. And that used to be true. Whatever they changed starting with W, though, it dramatically affected the production process. There's much more harmony between episode writers now so that you don't get wild characterization swings like Tsurugi's or bizarre dropped plot elements like ZECT's thermal goggles or the Red Shoes system. When someone disappears for a stretch they do something to explain or lampshade it like Ryouma blasting off into outer space for a few weeks, they don't do what they did with Drake or Hiyori and have them just vanish without explanation. Rider's gotten better than what Kabuto tells you to expect.

I also just don't think Tendou and Kagami are a good introduction to the lead and secondary Rider dynamic. Tendou is extremely atypical in how he's basically a selfish asshole, and Kagami being the viewpoint character is entirely unlike any other show unless you call Knight the lead of Ryuki.

>>13959369
Man did this show not have any idea what to do with Drake at a certain point or what?

>MISAKIIIIIIIIIIIINU
God I love Tsurugi. I don't care how shitty he was written

>>13959636
Eh, Kuuga, Kabuto, W and OOO have been considered as obligatory "Your first Rider series" for a while now. It took OOO a while though.

>I also just don't think Tendou and Kagami are a good introduction to the lead and secondary Rider dynamic
I don't think that matters much as much as how the story plays out

>>13959636
The problem with Os is that it's really kooky, even by Kobayashi standards. It definitely has a lot of high points, but there are also areas where it drags too. The characters are top notch, but it also takes a fair amount of patience to get through the dull sections (as opposed to shows like Double or Drive where Sanjo manages to blend action into the writing fairly well), which your average first-timer might not be willing to sit through.

And I'm saying this as a guy whose all-time favorite Rider is Os. The thing is that even Os is not wholly representative of what you can expect from a Rider show, because things like power-up reveals or collectible toys are somewhat played down (Birth switching users and not getting an upgrade, for instance, is something that is unique to Os, no subsequent show has ever done that), whereas these features are drummed up a lot more in other Post-Decade shows.

>>13959637
>Man did this show not have any idea what to do with Drake at a certain point or what?
The issue with him is that his actor was barely available. There's even an episode where Gon appears and keeps referencing an off-screen Drake, and also an episode where a mute only transformed Drake briefly appears to show that he was helping the others during the later worm stuff.

>>13959636

The main issue I see with recommending OOO is stuff like the goofy CG candroids getting ton of screentime right in episode 2, alongside the singing belt and speaking Sentai monster-like Yummy in episode 1.

The show improves later, but I don't think it's a good recommendation to someone new to tokusatsu in general because those presentation issues could make them drop it right there.

If someone sits through 10+ episodes of Kabuto, I think he'll be much more used to stuff like rubber suit monsters, which helps getting into the other shows.

>>13959823
>>13959899
Fair points, but I'd still consider it over Kabuto. I guess W would be the best choice as far as modern Rider to introduce people, since it's basically the template that half the shows in the past six years are built on. I just can't bring myself to recommend Kabuto when out of all the Rider shows I've seen only Wizard was worse. Put a good foot forward.

The other reason I don't want to recommend Kabuto first is because it causes people to start their subbing experience with TV-N.

>>13960001
>The other reason I don't want to recommend Kabuto first is because it causes people to start their subbing experience with TV-N.
When will Kabuto ever have good subs?
Is anyone even working on it right now?

>>13960140
Yongou Over Yander has been scrubbing and Metronome subs released one episode with the caveat that he(?) is "not going to start seriously tackling [it] for a while".

>He didn't get to win the Misakin

Kabuto used to be my go to recommendation for anyone looking to get into the series, then Double came out.

Anon, after what episode I should watch the Kabuto movie? I just got to episode 23 and I'm considering watching it after the gatack arc ends

>>13960001
>The other reason I don't want to recommend Kabuto first is because it causes people to start their subbing experience with TV-N.
If new people aren't willing to suffer as we have suffered they don't deserve to get into toku!

>>13960200
Watch it either when the promotional shorts for the movie start appearing after the episodes, or watch it after the series if you don't want the movie spoiling a couple of things.

>>13959647

For Heisei. Personally I think for the franchise as a whole, V3 probably is the best to introduce you into Rider. It has both goofy and serious episodes, and it knows how to do them without seeming tonally inconsistent. You just have to get used to 1973 tv production values.

Plus Shiro is played by the always amazing Hiroshi Miyauchi, and he protrays the character in such a way that you know why he's the hero of the story.

>>13960235
>Plus Shiro is played by the always amazing Hiroshi Miyauchi
That reminds me, I need to watch more Zubat.

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>>13959198
Lots of Japanese kids shows are like that.

>>13960216
All right, thank you

>>13959823

I love OOO, it was the first Rider that I watched while it was airing, but it has some big problems.

Also, remember when they announced Let's Go All Riders and we thought it wouldn't be the worst thing ever?

>>13960298
They hadn't yet started calling those movies literally shit.

>>13960302

Because back then a lot of Rider movies weren't just crossover excuses, they were usually either their own plotlines or something to continue the series.

Granted the 40th anniversary you damn well better have all the riders, but they didn't have to halfass it so hard.

>>13960320
The movies with two Riders are usually okay to great. It's the ones where they cram everyone together and fight Shocker again that always suck.

>>13960341

Three generally works too, but that's because W-OOO-Fourze are the same universe so they play the characters off each other.

>>13960320
>Granted the 40th anniversary you damn well better have all the riders, but they didn't have to halfass it so hard.

The main issue with that movie is that the whole All Riders segment feels really cheap and throw away, and the movie ends with that. The Riders appear, pose... but even there the only one that gets actual fighting scenes are the main cast (Rider 1,2, Den-O and OOO). They might as well not have bothered with the others.

And then the movie just "ends" without any kind of epilogue leaving the fate of the world and the final timeline really vague.

I generally like some of the All Rider movies unlike other posters here(Kamen Rider Taisen and SHTGP especially), since I think it's neat to see the Riders fighting outside of the context of their series, but that movie completely mishandled it all. Even W just fades into the background after appearing out of nowhere to transform.

>>13960386

Also when all the riders are appearing, the people cheering sound and look like the most apathetic motherfuckers ever.

>>13959823
>>13959899
>Hina's strength forgotten 99% of the time
>Date dying but lol not really
>Gamel dying early then cheaply resurrected
Same problems as Kabuto.

>>13959636
I wouldn't call the dynamic and central characterization of the leads of Kabuto and Ryuki bad, just different. Which is perfectly fine.

>>13961337
>cheaply resurrected

Uva spent around 20 episodes getting enough Cell Medals to bring them back to life, which explains why we had almost nothing but Kazari shenanigans in that time. It's not cheaply.

>>13961352
And then those fuckers backstabbed him before two minutes had even passed.

Uva should have just cut his losses and left at that point. You try showing a little loyalty to your comrades and they betray you without a second thought.

>>13961360
He wasn't even trying to show loyalty. If you remember, he wanted to recruit them for additional muscle, but then deliberately withheld Core Medals to keep them weak enough for him to control.

It was just his bad luck that the three of them combined were still weaker than PuToTyra and then Ankh + Cazali.

>>13961424

Plus none of the Greeed were actually on the same side aside from Gamel's eternal loyalty to Mezool. All of them were perfectly willing to backstab each other for the chance to be perfect, because they were all THAT greedy.