What does /m/ think about him?

>>13897915
Better MC than the alternative.

He's better than Jesus Yamato but that's about it.

>>13897915
If we're talking about his SRW version, I think he's great

If we're talking about in series>>13897923
but he's a bundle of wasted potential, and some of his scenes with Athrun are just fucking awful.

I think he should've died instead of Soushi, and I though Red 5 was a complete waste because he could just turn into Bellcross whenever he wanted, and the Linebarrel was way more powerful besides.

>>13897915
In the ass

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>>13897915
Too much anger in him.

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>>13897915

Dog feed only on shame

>>13897915
I bit too much angry at the start but with some potential. When his psychological growth stops and becomes a rabid dog just because Kira has to look better, of course he becomes excessively annoying.

A mediocre character, but it is not his fault. His role was literally sabotaged by Fukuda and wife.

would fuck

>>13897915
Would had been interesting if he were a Natural.

>>13897915
A faggot fucking the best girl

>>13898263
You must be mad.

>>13897915
GO GO SHINN GO GO SHINN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAVnSwCLk8E

>>13897915
He's the main reason Destiny was a piece of crock. Worst main character in any gundam.

>>13897915
/m/ thinks he's the main character (or should have been) because they played SRW instead of watching the show.

>>13898640
And then comes the usual asshole who has no functioning brain and thinks that the protagonist was Athrun, despite not having any fucking role, besides being the mentor (failing miserably) and a spectator of Shin anger against Orb and the entire world.

yes, we know the refrain, now GTFO.

An insufferable edgelord who, unlike most Gendum protagonist, had a damn good excuse for getting away with all the shit he pulled despite being nominally military.

>>13898699
>nlike most Gendum protagonist, had a damn good excuse for getting away with all the shit he pulled

I am fairly convinced that freeing an enemy prisoner, lead to court martial and treason in any 3d world with actual military laws. ZAFT is the kingdom of Mickey Mouse .

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>>13897915
He has cute casual clothes

>>13898786
Those are women's boots.

>>13898234
Would've been a bigger Sue than Kira and subsequently an even bigger failure than he was.

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>>13898721

Actually Shinn would've been court martialed and might even be executed for that whole schtick don't forget he also assaulted the Minerva crew along with Rey but he was let off because LOL Durandal

>>13898795
They belong to Mayu. She had really big feet.

>>13898795
The whole fucking outfit is female's.

>>13897915

He was never a good character, even before Kira showed up. He was just an irrational ball of rage from the start. He just hid it better.

He also never actually seemed like the protagonist ever storywise, beyond piloting the Gundam. The first quarter he'd pilot, and then go angst in his room outside of fight scenes while Athrun and Cagalli got story focus.

>>13898699
What are you talking about. In any other series but his, Shinn wouldn't have survived Destiny. He was such a Mary Sue that even after the Destiny Universe made Kira into a Sue to fight him, he was made to survive.

>>13898640
This.

>>13898721
After ZZ Gundam, I don't know why we're expecting anyone to ACTUALLY get court-martialed.

>>13899026
>but he was let off because LOL Durandal

and then for an encore, freshly delivered from the jaws of death, he had the idiocy/balls to get on a high horse over what he did.

Made even better/worse by the fact that, in series, we never see him connect the dots and own the fact the blood for the Berlin massacre is partially on his hands as well.

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>>13898786
>>13898795
>>13899059
>the boots
>leggings instead of trousers
>the jacket/coat/sweater thing
>lilac colors
>necklace of some sort

Not even male models wear that kind of thing.

He had potential but ended up being a disaster, only marginally better than the character that replaced him as the MC.

Also the remaster special end killed every last bit of dignity he had left and was converted into another Kira slave.

>>13898106
Age best boy

>>13899105
Prety much all of this.

There were a few hints of him having the potential to grow out of his angsty phase after the first cour but that didn't last long.

>>13899196
Only Uraki and Grodek got court martialed and the charges against Uraki got dropped anyway.

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>>13899105
Thanks to Rey and Durandal mind game.

That should be Kira fate if not for waken up after his death duel against Athrun.

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Heine should have been MC.

>>13899818
would cost too much and Kira would still stole his role anyhow.

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>>13899827
Stop crushing my delusions anon.

>>13898795
>>13899059
That's why it's cute

>>13897915
Most underrated Gundam MC

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcVli_WaOI

>>13899495
Synapse as well.
Only where Kou got an out because "Welp...can't charge you with stealing something that didn't exist, now can we?", he got the firing squad.

>>13897942
>but he's a bundle of wasted potential, and some of his scenes with Athrun are just fucking awful.

better than Jesus Yamato isn't glowing praise but he is

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>>13898106

needs an update

>>13899417

Best boy is the hero

Shinn:
>angry entertaining edge lord (in series)
>ally of justice (in srw)

Kira:
>stupid pacifist dipshit mary sue who could survive sitting on top of a nuclear explosion (in series)
>stupid pacifist dipshit mary sue who enraged literally every other protagonist with his bullshit (in srw)

And yet there are people who still think Shinn shouldn't have stayed the protag of Destiny.

>>13900036
>stupid pacifist dipshit mary sue who could survive sitting on top of a nuclear explosion (in series)
I HATE IT
>stupid pacifist dipshit mary sue who enraged literally every other protagonist with his bullshit (in srw)
I FUCKING HATE IT

>And yet there are people who still think Shinn shouldn't have stayed the protag of Destiny
Anything is better than Kira, even Kio. Yes, you know it's true.

>>13900303
Kio was technically right. The entire conflict was retarded and based on countless misunderstandings.

This isn't the case in Destiny, where everyone knows full well why they're fighting each other.

Well, except for the Archangel crew. They had no idea why people who fighting and spent the entire series going HURR DURR EVERYONE STOP IT.

>>13900036
>And yet there are people who still think Shinn shouldn't have stayed the protag of Destiny.

Nope, Shin is a bad character per se.

The only episode where appears sympathetic is the first one where wearing civilian clothes, and, ironically, looks like a "normal guy", also literally does not speak and has only ten seconds of the scene.

So then, we find out that is always angry and has no real quality, aside from pilot the Gundam. It follows that Shin has no role in the story and this led him to be secondary compared to Cagalli or "Alex Dino".

Kira was a central and fundamental character. Shin has no relevance to the point that you could change story and entrust the Impulse to Athrun and maintain unchanged the first 15 episodes.

Halfway the show, the theme of his story becomes a private vengance against Kira, while the whole issue of the war, slips completely on him.

Yes, of course, no character in Seed are well characterized. when Athrun must talk about Nicol, the only thing he can say was that ... "he playing the piano" wow it's fucking nothing. In short, no. Shin is a character that should be completely rewritten from scratch with a completely different concept.

>>13900339
I don't want to think about Destiny, the whole thing is a headache.

>>13900340
>Alex Dino
Fukuda is really taking the audience for retards.

>>13900392

It's not like Fukuda really thought anyone in the audience wouldn't know he was Athrun. Hell the preview material outside said it was Athrun.

It was just a homage to Quattro. One that didn't really work so well without a mask, but still.

>>13900340
>Shin has no relevance to the point that you could change story and entrust the Impulse to Athrun and maintain unchanged the first 15 episodes.
Not even that. The first half of Destiny has two different plots:
>the Gundam theft at Armory One
>the ZAFT malcontents dropping Junius-7 on Earth, plus its aftermath
On either of them, Shinn is nothing more than a random idiot who pilots a Gundam and provides an excuse for space battles with robots. You could remove him altogether and nothing in the plot would change.
And that's exactly the point: Fukuda doesn't care about fancy things such as "characterization", "worldbuilding" or "storytelling". No, his main interest are the pretty colors.

>>13897918
>>13897923
>>13897942
>Shinn > Kira
Literally how the fuck can anyone utter the first syllable of Shinn's name without wanting to go complete holocaust on a million babies and kittens.

I hate this faggot more than i hate Eggs/Slaine tryhard and Suzaku. Kira was never as autistic as this stupid piece of shit.

No amount of alternate universe bullshit can make up for what this mother fucker is responsible for in Destiny. Fucking Nothing.

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>>13900477
>Kira was never as autistic as this stupid piece of shit.
Maybe not, but his antics are much more preferable to watch than Kira's irksome self-righteousness.

>>13900421
>>13900392
I don't think they were trying to hide his identity from the audience, he took that name so he could live in ORB, Ramius did too

>>13900392
Alex Dino wasn't an attempt to fool anyone except people in the story. His dad was a genocidal maniac that tried to destroy all the Naturals after all, maybe he didn't want to carry that baggage everywhere. Or maybe I'm thinking too hard yet still harder than anyone responsible for the show thought about any part of it.

>>13900484
Even today I wonder how the hell they managed to repair the Freedom when got damaged by Raider while capturing Flay.

>>13900477
This.

>>13900484
>In the land of /m/ if you're an edgelord or an asshole you're automatically better

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>>13900522
Here's something you probably don't know: according to the timeline, 10 weeks pass between Mendel and Jachin Due. It could probably be justified with the Eternal being the Freedom's intended carrier ship.

Although that doesn't baffle me as bad as the fact that Duel lost not only its left arm to the Strike, but also the beam rifle. Yet ZAFT is able to come up with new ones from fucking nowhere.

I always liked Shinn.

>>13898721
>I am fairly convinced that freeing an enemy prisoner, lead to court martial and treason in any 3d world with actual military laws

Yeah but Dillendal was all "no don't court martial and execute him, give him a slap on the wrist" and all that positive reinforcement led to Shinn being his loyal pet murderer

>>13900468
>Shinn is nothing more than a random idiot who pilots a Gundam

So he's the antithesis of a special snowflake, just a random everyguy trying to fight the good fight?

>>13900565
>character flaws and evil schemes are a bad thing
>villains should just zerg rush their way to victory
>bad guys shouldn't be smart

Get the fuck out.

>>13900484
Frankly, this scene was legitimate, but it has been poorly represented to the viewer.

The Freedom contained the secret of the Neutron Jammer Canceller from which it could derive the risk of a new atomic wave, thing that later happened when the data ended up in the wrong hands.

>>13900570

What are you talking about, Shinn's descent into the villain role due to Dillendal's positive reinforcement of his negative behaviour is the best character writing in Destiny

>>13900575
Or it's just a lazy way to reduce him to a minor villain with no motivation other than "My bosses tell me this is a good idea no matter what anyone else says."

>>13900560
>Liking shinn ever
Liking Shinn is admitting that you liked Destiny
Destiny is everything wrong with Gundam Seed.

>>13900583

aka the best character writing in Destiny

>>13900591
>Best writing
Shinn is that asshole that shit posts in every thread to derail said thread intentionally. you're fucking retarded.

>>13900585
This is an +18 site.

>>13900556
People also don't know that it took Kira several days to get to Alaska. Seed is terrible with time management and informing the viewers of passing time.

>>13900522

They have like, spare parts you know. It could take a few days as best to reattach the new head and wing unit and fix everything up.

>>13900575
Villan role for Shin?. Shin has done nothing specifically malicious.

Lelouch is someone who can be considered a villain from a different point of view.

Shin is a Jerid Messa at best.

>>13900689
The Eternal had them, sure. But that doesn't explain what happened to Duel after >>13900556.

>>13900689
Now i do not remember, but seems to me that Lacus comes with the Eternal well after the capture of Flay.

The point is that when the Freedom gets damaged, they did not even yet spare parts.

>>13900711
>>13900709

No it's right .. she flees from ZAFT and is taken from EA. It has been a long time since my last vision

>>13900711

It's pretty obvious that Freedom's damaged arm is replaced with parts from the Strike, anon.

This allowed Kira to use both arms without having to fight seriously, as the Freedom's other arm has a lower powerlevel

>>13900573
Well, the issue is that, nobody was asking for the data, they were just glad to see that he was actually ALIVE.

And if they're his friends, why is he taking such a cold, fresh tone with them? Literally right after their reunion? Did he think that they were going to just grab the Freedom right from under him or something?

I get the idea of being stern about the weapon, but the way the scene plays out, it just makes him look like an asshole.
>>13900575
If that's the case, then tell me why does Shinn believe in the Destiny Plan? What exactly is he getting out of it? Why does he think it's a good idea?

It's easy to say WELL, SHINN JUST LIKES TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO AND NOT TO THINK AT ALL, but we've seen early on that despite telling a representative that you think she's a shit in front of ZAFT bigwigs probably being abad idea, that Shinn will do it anyway, because he feels that strongly about it.
And even though everyone on the ship was like "well, chop the bitch up!" Shinn was the only one who gave two shits about Stella, even Athrun showed up and said "well, maybe she should die."

This character used to have some independence, but in lieu of sloppy shitty writing, we've opted with the "Durandal's dog!" routine, when I can't remember the last time they've had a chat since he got the Destiny Gundam in the first place, because it's easier to explain his lack of weight in the plot or character with that. Honestly, I could call him killing Athrun AND Meyrin because Rey's telling him it's a good idea completely out of character, especially if he didn't want to. He could have easily captured the GOUF with the new Destiny Gundam.

This is literally cases of cause without the effect. It's easy to try and retroactively try to connect scenes, but when you think about them a little, they don't make any sense.

>>13900711
>Now i do not remember, but seems to me that Lacus comes with the Eternal well after the capture of Flay.
1) Fllay got captured by Rau in Alaska.
2) Lacus steals the Eternal and heads to Mendel to join Kira. Rau follows shortly after.
3) Rau releases Fllay in Mendel. Freedom gets damaged.

Rau's plan to leak the NJC data is fucking stupid: what if Fllay had been rescued by Kira or Athrun?

>>13900711

No Eternal is there and had been for several episodes before Freedom was seriously damaged.

>>13900695
Shin is now Lelouch. Stellar is now CC, an enemy cyber Newtype capable of awakening powers. They fall in love, they are separated, to get back together they started a rebellion in both camps. It ends horribly wrong with Lacus or Cagalli, or both mind reped in full genocide mode by mistake.

Peace between coordinators and naturals becomes impossible.

>>13900734
>I get the idea of being stern about the weapon, but the way the scene plays out, it just makes him look like an asshole

Kira's still undergoing character development at that point, he's in the phase where he thinks he has to be an invincible superman with no feelings in order to prove the strength of his justice.

The final turn of his character is when he learns that it is, in fact, alright to cry from Space Princess, and then he combines CONSTANTLY CRYING KIRA from the first half with STOIC INVINCIBLE SUPERCHRIST from the second half, turning him into the true saviour of mankind, armed with a billion lasers, because strength is justice

>>13900735
>Rau's plan to leak the NJC data is fucking stupid: what if Fllay had been rescued by Kira or Athrun?

He had the Vesalius fire the pod in the Dominion's vicinity while the Archangel was standing off, so it was a fairly reasonable assumption that the Dominion's suits would make it to the pod before the Archangel's

The sense of spatial relations in the scene is just dumb

>>13900753
>Kira's still undergoing character development at that point, he's in the phase where he thinks he has to be an invincible superman with no feelings in order to prove the strength of his justice.
What development? He remained in that stage all the way from the second half, through Destiny.

>The final turn of his character is when he learns that it is, in fact, alright to cry from Space Princess, and then he combines CONSTANTLY CRYING KIRA from the first half with STOIC INVINCIBLE SUPERCHRIST from the second half,
When does that ever happen? The one who was crying was Lacus, not Kira.

>>13900760
>He had the Vesalius fire the pod in the Dominion's vicinity while the Archangel was standing off, so it was a fairly reasonable assumption that the Dominion's suits would make it to the pod before the Archangel's
By that stage in the battle, the Dominion had only three MS, the druggie Gundams (their 3 Strike Daggers they brought were all destroyed). The T.S.A. had more units (their 4 Gundams, plus 3 M1s) to retrieve the pod.

>>13900036
Oh fuck off. I bet you like Loran too.

>>13900925
I do. Laura Rolla was a qt.

Oh, you meant as a character. About that...

>>13901137
>Oh, you meant as a character. About that...
He's better than Kira, Athrun or Shinn, I tell you what.

>>13901445
No, she wasn't. Laura was bland as fuck and terribly uninteresting.

At least Jesus McNukebottom was hilariously full of shit. He was the Wufei of SEED.

>Gundam Seed Destiny
>the titular MS is piloted by the villain

Should've named it Gundam Seed Strike Freedom.

>>13901776
That would imply a modicum of foresight from Fukuda and his wife.

At least Kira got to bang his sister in Cross Ange.

>>13900735
Rau's just making a scene. If Fllay was taken by Kira, he would have gotten the data to Azrael some other way. At that point, he's just having his fun after hiding his true intentions for so long.

>>13900753
That's not really an excuse for his behavior in that scene, and he doesn't go much if any character development after that.

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>>13897915
I love Shinn precisely because he's a failure. A character that never gets the help he needs and just spirals downwards. Both his mental condition and his pilot skills get worse as the series progresses, which hardly coincidence. His utter humilation by Athrun in the final was also satisfying to watch.

So yeah, I like him a lot. Easily my favourite MC in Gundam because he's such an interesting character. An outright fallen hero is very interesting to me. They could have handled him better but I wouldn't change anything too core about him, such as the usual 'defects to the TSA after realizing he is being manipulated' or what I saw of him in SRWZ.

Also, Sword Impulse is sex.

>>13902373
>A character that never gets the help he needs and just spirals downwards. Both his mental condition and his pilot skills get worse as the series progresses, which hardly coincidence.
This is the sort of retroactive "Writing", I was talking about.

>>13902341
I don't think Rau would want just one side to have everything they need to de-escalate the war.

>>13902387
There is nothing retroactive about what I said. Shinn is noticable a worse pilot in the second half than in the first. It's the same with his mental health. You don't have to be a genius to make such a simple association.

>>13902393
Kira's side gaining the data would change nothing. They already have the suits. Azrael wants the suits because he correctly deduced that they were running on nuclear power and he wants to know how. Rau hands the data to him instead while making a big show of it.

>>13900734
>Did he think that they were going to just grab the Freedom right from under him or something?
and if he did why would he get out of it? I mean yeah he beat up Sai but Im pretty sure Mwu could bend him over backwards

>>13902373
>IMMA KICK THE GENDUM WITH LASER BLADE SHINS

attaboy, Shinn

>>13902423

Well no you misunderstand.

See Shinn isn't a fallen hero who falls into the depths of confusion and despair by design.

No see he was only that in order to make Kira Christ Super Star look better and infallible

>>13902445
...that's still 'by design', unless you're arguing that the series was written entirely accidentally.

Which would probably have been far more hilarious than what we actually got.

>>13902430
him getting back Fllay does, though. but yeah, having the daughters of the Former Vice Minister of the Atlantic Federation and the daughter of the former PLANT Chairman plus Orb's current head of state won't change everything, right?

>>13902457

My point is his "fall" wasn't organic. It was less a natural progression of the story and more it was the writers beating him up and stealing his lunch money.

It also wasn't written WELL.

>unless you're arguing that the series was written entirely accidentally

I wouldn't be surprised in the least, quite frankly

>>13902463
Vice Foreign Minister actually (and I'm gonna assume that's not that high ranking) but I still don't see why it would change anything. Azrael only recognized her by her last name so I doubt she's hold any influence over the Atlantic Federation, especially since they only recently wiped out the undesirable moderates from the Eurasian Federation as well as from their own ranks.

>>13902480
ZAFT sure didn't get any use out of her that way.

>>13900522
What is Astray

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>>13902423
This is why I'm calling it retroactive.
There aren't any ACTUAL scenes in the series that suggest Shinn's losing his focus on his piloting abilities, that he's losing his mind. Hell, he's hardly in the latter half of the show, and most of the time it's standing around with Rey. He rarely speaks to Gilbert after getting the Destiny Gundam, and for all this talk about how Gilbert wants to use him as his big grand weapon, Gil rarely talks about him.

The thing is, when you actually want to write something being wrong with a character. or a character losing a handle on something, you have to write that scene in. I don't need to ask myself if something is up with Amuro after this scene (and many otheres) where we see him acting odd and distant from everyone else because he's strung up so much. The characters mention it, tensions are high, and things actually HAPPEN from what we've seen

The trouble with the "losing his piloting skills!" thing is that Shinn is seen and said to be an excellent pilot by almost every character in the series, even towards the ending, until it's time to job to Freedom and Justice via stock footage and not even a passing line is made towards his skill, just that we're supposed to believe that Kira/Athrun are just that much betterer than him by default. Shit, you could go into how he's seen as the protagonist until they arrive, but that's another story.

The problem with "his mental condition is on a downward spiral", is outside of his initial hangups, there isn't anything to indicate that there's something wrong with him or that he's getting worse. We see him with Lunamaria, and she doesn't say anything about it, or ask him to take it easy. We see him with Rey and it's just scenes of Rey telling him what's up.

>>13902487
>There aren't any ACTUAL scenes in the series that suggest Shinn's losing his focus on his piloting abilities

You mean like how he totally forgot how to fight Kira? Or thought blocking a leg saber with his foot was a good idea, like >>13902437 said?

>>13902487

what really gets me is the whole Flawless Victory shit.

I mean really would have been so much to have Justice lose an arm? For the the Akatsuki to get smashed up a bit? Fuck even the Doms made it out without a scratch.

Oh and good job nearly getting your sister killed Meyrin

>>13902504
IJ lost its lifter, if it matters.

>>13902503
>You mean like how he totally forgot how to fight Kira? Or thought blocking a leg saber with his foot was a good idea

Oh my god.

Pay attention, dip shit.

There are no scenes IN BETWEEN him kicking Kira's ass and him losing to Justice to suggest he got worse.

The time came for him to get clobbered by Team Kira so that's what happened. You can't just have a guy who's 1-0 suddenly lose on the spot without some effort in justifying it.

Did you just SKIM the post?

>>13902510
>There are no scenes IN BETWEEN him kicking Kira's ass and him losing to Justice to suggest he got worse.

Yes, because he totally never fought Kira at all between those times. Like at Orb! Where Shinn got so schooled Kira trolled him with useless railguns and fancy sword-grabbing just because he apparently fucking could.

Did you just skim the post, dipshit?

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>>13902487
What's going on here is coming to a conclusion by trying to fill in the blanks of what hasn't been explained at all.

It'd be like if Gentle Chapman from G Gundam had all the scenes of him dying or being a DG Gundam Cyborg removed, but playing the same role he did in the story. "Hey, why is Chapman such a badguy now? I guess he really hates Domon, I guess!"

Or what if we had Rosamia from Zeta Gundam reappear without any mentioning towards her literal mental conditioning? "Well, she hit her head, I guess!"

See, if this series had actually put any actual time into Shinn (in general) and his 'fall from grace', that'd be an actual clever and unique take on what's done with Gundam protagonists, but ultimately, that's not what they did. Shinn ended up the way he did via bad, and more importantly, sloppy and rushed writing, and this is just trying to pick up the pieces of what was put up when there's really nothing at all. I can say this because if Shinn had won the battle against Athrun at the end of the series, you wouldn't be saying anything about him losing his piloting abilities.

If I look at Tekkaman Blade, even with it's "filler" episodes, I can easily label the points where D-Boy is losing his grip with his emotions or where he's literally deteriorating. The entire series is about the character struggling and overcoming his problems, but usually at a heavy price.

I can't find a scene that would lead me to believe that his actions at the end of the series are the end result of his character. Not when it's easier to just call it for what it is, bad writing.

>>13902515
>Yes, because he totally never fought Kira at all between those times. Like at Orb! Where Shinn got so schooled Kira trolled him with useless railguns and fancy sword-grabbing just because he apparently fucking could.


*sigh*

and where did he show he was getting worse against anyone not named Kira. Because him and his team where EATING destroys, they where shredding enemy MS left and right.

It was only Kira and his guys that suddenly made him look like a fool.

That's not him losing skill that's the writers forcing shit

>>13902445

>No see he was only that in order to make Kira Christ Super Star look better and infallible

I agree. I believe he wasn't originally intended to even become some sort of villain/antagonist but to grow into an anti-hero figure with Athrun's mentoring.

However Kira appeared and he had to steal the show so the best way to make Jesus look better was to make Shinn look like a retard who gets manipulated by a space tyrant and his mad clone pawn only to be utterly humilliated in their final fight.

Him becoming an antagonist and emotionally unstable wasn't planned and didn't mean anything; it was done simply to contrast with Kira's perfection.

>>13902519
>that example doesn't count because I say so

And if you're seriously trying to use any example of fighting grunt pilots in CE as skill (because that's is literally all Shinn fights after Freedom except for Kira, Athrun, a mindfucked and useless Sting, and beating up on Cagalli whose major claim to fame in old Seed was getting shot down repeatedly), then there's no help for you.

Also beating up on Destroys are easy since they're apparently terrible shots at things that aren't civilians and stationary buildings; Kira just took fucking forever to figure out 'MAYBE A WEAPON OTHER THAN GUNS IS A GOOD IDEA' to pad out Stella's drama.

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>>13902503
I don't think you understand what I'm saying.
Here's a literal example.

On Gundam 00 S2, the character Allelujah Haptism, the experimental super soldier is said to have lost his piloting ability via his head-injury and sitting in a prison for 4 years among various tortures.

Even though Alle is the most ignored character out of his peers, we can see his performance is not up to snuff, and he routinely laments his lack of ability up until the end of the series where he gets it back.

We see why he's lost his piloting ability and we see the effect it has on him. We don't have to ask because the series is taking the time to show us What's Wrong With This Character.

Gundam SEED Destiny never once bothers doing this with Shinn.
Do you see what I'm talking about?
>>13902508
That's because it'd be blocking the other machines in the background if it had it on.

>>13902548

It doesn't count because it's not an example. Shinn shows no shine of even STRUGGLING with anything unless it's Kira. Whom he already beat soundly. Kira didn't even do any real training he just got a new suit and was back to being the bestest ever ever

>Also beating up on Destroys are easy since they're apparently terrible shots at things that aren't civilians and stationary buildings

You're really only further proving how badly this show is written.

>>13902565
Well no shit Destiny is poorly written, that's not the question. No one's defending the writing as quality.

But bad or not, the writing shows Shinn - who studied this asshole's bullshit and absolutely wrecked his shit - going DERP and forgetting everything he'd learned and trained to do, to an embarrassing degree.

There's nothing retroactive about it - Shinn, in-universe, screws the pooch. Blame the writing all you want, but you can look at point A to point B and come to logical conclusions. Calling the writing (justifiably) bad doesn't magically make the show not happen.

>Shinn shows no shine of even STRUGGLING with anything unless it's Kira.

Of course. NOTHING in CE with any sort of plot importance struggles with faceless grunts once they've figured out how this 'fighting' thing works. Shinn and his buddies have even upgraded suits by then.

Christ, speaking of bad writing. Poor EA; remember when they could be threatening?

>>13902373
God, I would have preferred that this had been the primary color of Impulse. Fuck Blue and red on torso. Why it is so rare to have a main Gundam with different colors than the usual?

Right now, I just remember Try with a red Gundam

>>13902610
You're ignoring what he's saying and trying to talk around it.

Shinn is not at any point written as stupid, or incapable, or stupid EXCEPT when it's required to force a contrived loss by him at the hands of either Kira or Athrun. That's it, ever.

This show had the Destiny (a nuclear powered super-suit) run out of power to force Shinn to run away from Kira to resolve a fight.

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>>13902610
>Blame the writing all you want, but you can look at point A to point B and come to logical conclusions
What you're failing to understand is that in writing if you don't show the trace to A to B for something that you're pushing as "character development", then that means it's either not actually there, or just sloppy writing.

This is like if in G Gundam, we took out any and all explanations that Master Asia wanted to use the Devil Gundam to stop the Gundam Fights and to restore the ravaged planet back to it's former glory.

When Master's betrayal happens, it's supposed to be a shock, even Domon refuses to believe it even when it's obvious to the audience to show how much it's effecting him. At that point, it's not only about stopping Master Asia, but why he turned bad, which little hints are made at, but we're not fully told.

Only near the end of the story do we find out his whole tale, and THAT'S what makes it a tragic story. If I took all that out and left the viewer to trace the idea that Master Asia became evil because he wants all that power and left it at that, this scene here would be absolutely ridiculous.

You yourself cannot come up with the explanation of Shinn's poor piloting skills other than "Well, it just is!" when just a few episodes before that, they were singing praises to his piloting ability.

>>13902627
Literally sabotaged the director. By the way is the same excuse used with the drugs to save Kira.

>>13902630
>If I took all that out and left the viewer to trace the idea that Master Asia became evil because he wants all that power and left it at that, this scene here would be absolutely ridiculous.

Foreshadowing and consistency are also important. You must make it clear to the audience that all the actions made by the character made sense read in retrospect. Destiny is a terribly improvised story. In Cyber Formula it made sense because it was just a sporting event without any moral subtext behind about who was right or wrong.

>>13900484
The moment where Kira's character got utterly derailed and SEED turned into a complete joke.

>>13900735
>Rau's plan to leak the NJC data is fucking stupid
SEED past episode 30 is fucking stupid.

>>13902433
Not if Kira was serious. Then Mwu wouldn't stand a chance against him.

>>13900734
>And if they're his friends, why is he taking such a cold, fresh tone with them? Literally right after their reunion? Did he think that they were going to just grab the Freedom right from under him or something?

This actually makes more sense if you go with what the show presents, which is that the Archangel crew aren't really anything close to being Kira's friends and in fact they spend most of the early show avoiding him, gossiping about him behind his back, and generally just being a bunch of ungrateful shits who never even say thank you. I'm pretty sure Fukada didn't actually want that to be the way they were presented, but in practice it absolutely makes sense for Kira to assume the worst about them. They are the worst.

>>13900734
>Did he think that they were going to just grab the Freedom right from under him or something?


Yes, pretty much and he's fucking right. In any regular army, a super weapon like the Freedom would be taken and handed over to the competent authorities, because soldiers must always act out of loyalty to their country, whether in the right or wrong.

So, Kira fears are somehow justified because there may be some mechanical or someone who copies the data and passes them secretly to the Federation. Things like that happened continuously in UC.

For this reason, that scene, should have been clearer on Kira fears, rather than make him look like an American righteous Super hero.

>>13902755
>would be taken and handed over to the competent authorities

well it's good thing we don't have to worry about any of those

>>13902610

Shinn worked at a strategy specifically to have Impulse defeat Freedom. That won't work when both he and Kira are in different suits.

Shinn can't be as reckless as he was because Destiny can't get insta repaired, and he can't predict Kira's rifle fire rate perfectly anymore because Kira has a rifle of different make and has two of them.

His inital strategy for the kill shot was to back Kira into a corner and get him with the ship sword. He tries that again in their rematch, and surprise Kira has beam shields he can blade grasp him with this time.

And he can't practice afterwards because Freedom had two wars worth of data to study up on but Strike Freedom was literally rolled out a day or so before that and had only been deployed twice.

And despite all that, Shinn's training is still apparant because he's able to stalemate Kira for awhile instead of getting insta destroyed like he used to.

>>13903684
The problem with this is that Shinn only replaces his parts i nbattles a scant few times, unlike the characters in Victory Gundam

So the idea that he can't do anything because he can't easily replace his parts is a bunk one. Besides that, the only reason he had to bring out everything he could out of the Impulse is specifically because his mobile suit isn't Freedom's match with it's NJC. If anything, having the Destiny Gundam should have made it even, or shit, given him the edge since he knows what's up with Freedom's pilot.

>>13897915
he's a whiny little suck up bitch

>>13904689
>So the idea that he can't do anything because he can't easily replace his parts is a bunk one.

Maybe not, but you could certainly say he couldn't beat Kira without swapping parts. Until he surprised him with repairs and then used the eject to cripple Freedom's wing they were even.

And then with Destiny vs SF they pretty much had the same result of the first part of Impulse vs Freedom, with Shinn being able to avoid getting instant disabled but not getting any good hits in. But without being able to use eject tricks he couldn't damage him.

Maybe Kira is just really better.

>>13903684
>And despite all that, Shinn's training is still apparant because he's able to stalemate Kira for awhile instead of getting insta destroyed like he used to.

At that point he was using a suit vastly inferior to Kira's though. Destiny and SF should be fairly even in performance.

Either way though, what's annoying about those later episodes is that Shinn sees himself unable to defeated Kira during the Orb battle - twice. And yet that doesn't prompt him to go back to the drawing board and train or plan something to defeat Kira. He just continues on like nothing had happened.

>>13904775
>Destiny and SF should be fairly even in performance.

Destiny is a slightly higher as performance. This is shown in the second fight between the two, the one where Kira join to save Cagalli.
Kira, literally fails to hit Shin because he's too fast. Such performance, however, consume the reactor energy.

>>13904813
>Kira, literally fails to hit Shin because he's too fast.

Huh? But Kira does hit him, Shinn even complains about him using a physical weapon when he could have finished the battle with a beam one.

>>13904818
When Shinn used the wings of light Kira couldn't touch him and Shinn was flying circles around him.

>>13902755
Except the Archangel crew was alread considered AWOL treasoners for escaping at Alaska. That's dumb, sure, but going back to the EA at that point would be dumb also.

>>13899233

Japanese characters dress faggy, news at eleven.

Hirai seems to have a thing for artsy and flat-out female high fashion on dudes. Soushi legitimately dressed like an uber-flaming crossdresser I know.


To answer OP's topic though: Shinn was alright. He had a lot of cool things going for him until he got shafted in-favor of Kira, Assram and the rest of the gang.

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>>13897915
Shit >>>>>> Shin > Kira.

Pic related: best Destiny pilot.

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>>13897915
I like his rage.

>>13904775
>And yet that doesn't prompt him to go back to the drawing board and train or plan something to defeat Kira. He just continues on like nothing had happened.

What's there to draw up. Unlike Freedom, which Zaft had the specs for since they made it, and they had 2 years worth of battle data from it, Strike Freedom was just rolled out, and was custom built by Terminal. Their stock footage is identical but in story its a functually different machine that Shinn can't really break down like he did the first one.

Not to mention there's Athrun to take into account now, as well as Rey on his side.

Angel Down was a rare situation where he could plan out the entire fight in advance. He can't do that again.

>>13905406
Except Strike Freedom shows no performance i increase over Freedom. Kira pilots the same way. Freedom actually has better weapons on Earth since it had two plasma cannons that could aim in an arc over the stupid belly cannon which can only fire one way. Strike Freedom has two beam rifles and two beam shields that are different. The whole fight at Orb was stupid and Shinn had to retreat for a stupid reason. Kira couldn't touch him when he used the WOL. Kira catching the sword with the beam shields was done because it was cool and not because it made sense. If Destiny can cleave through Destroy Gundams it should have no problem ripping Strike Freedom's arms off with a swing that powerful. Instead we get a Kira dick sucking scene. Of course this is all after Kira destroyed Shinn's boomerangs with a surprise attack. The original story for Strike Freedom was that it was stolen from ZAFT. Not that Terminal built it so that's a bullshit excuse.

>>13905457

Oh it's that Nataku guy from youtube.

>>13905493
What are you talking about?

>>13900839
>The one who was crying was Lacus, not Kira

Dude he's leaking tears like a faucet for half the final battle

>>13900477
Kira is the most infuriating piece of cancerous shit ever made.

STELLA

>>13905406
>Angel Down was a rare situation where he could plan out the entire fight in advance. He can't do that again.
This entire series, Gundam as a whole is full of moments of people sitting down of thinking "how am I going to beat that one guy!"
This is nonsense.

>>13900484
He's being professional with adults about something top secret. What is wrong with that when he was treated the same way at the beginning?

>>13905406
One of the origins for the Strike Freedom had it as a stolen mobile suit project though. I can't remember which one it was during the time of the show.

Either way though, they could analyze the data that they actually had and attempt to plan something. The idea that you can only train to prepare against it if you're with the manufacturer of the mobile suit is kind of odd. They had their weapons loadout and footage of its performance, they could attempt to go somewhere from there.

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>>13897915
He isn't a filthy space rat.

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>>13905457
>Freedom actually has better weapons on Earth since it had two plasma cannons that could aim in an arc over the stupid belly cannon which can only fire one way.
I don't remember ever seeing the plasma cannons shooting in an arc anywhere in either series.
Also, what's the point of losing one cannon if it gains remote weapons, which are more efficient and accurate?

>>13899105
I remember people wanting to punch his shit in every time he opened his mouth.

>>13900484
Actually there isn't anything wrong with he was doing here.

>>13900734
Well something to understand about Shinn, he's not really independent he's just selfish and short-sighted. Stella was too far gone to be saved which everyone but he realized because he was too focused on what he wanted. Shinn on a whole doesn't give a shit unless it involves him personally. Which is why Durandal just reinforced this attitude, so that he would fight for him. Basically Shinn lives solely in the here and now, and doesn't really consider anything beyond that.

>>13917451
Explain Lunamaria to me now.

>>13917528
Shit writing.

>>13917404

That scene is just weird. 1 he showed up save them so he's doing a piss poor job of looking like he likes them. 2 no shit they aren't gonna give it to the EA when they just betrayed and ran out on the EA and are now fugitives. 3 That whole scene is literally forgotten two minutes later. Nobody acts like Kira just said that, and Freedom is in AA's hangar with Murdock servicing it. It's like that whole thing never happened.