I guess they were on a "tight budget."

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>>13897272

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>>13897272

>>13897277

Was Norio Matsumoto the key animator for this?

>>13897301
Funnily enough yes, he actually was according to staff credits. He can't not do his smear style.

So the webm can appropriately be named "My Birdy is mightier than yours"

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I don't get why people bitch about the art shift in these two episodes. Regardless of the almost nonexistent budget they were working with, I think it looks fine. Fags always try and post still frames to make it look out of context.

>>13897371

It's just something that always happens with Matsumoto. The guy has really fluid animation but the characters often don't look like the characters, especially not mid-motion.

>>13897371
I liked the sense of weight and motion they managed to capture in the fight sequences. You can feel the impacts and speed in this webm>>13897277

>>13897387
I remember seeing that pic from Naruto during the fight against Pain where his face is all fucked up and his jaw is behind his head or something, since it was taken during a motion/fluid-heavy segment. Was that the same guy? The animation reminded me a lot of Birdy's final episode.

>>13897400

Yeah, Norio Matsumoto. He also gave us the infamous "I can see you" Nurutu image. Every episode he did for that series (I think like 5 total) always had REALLY good animation, but the character faces were all over the place for every episode except I think 48.

Why the fuck do I remember the details so perfectly? I stopped reading back in likr fucking 2007 and watching a year later

>>13897398
Definitely. Birdy was all about momentum and impact and I think that art style suited it great.

What's interesting is that Zack Snyder was influenced by this show when he was directing Man of Steel. He was talking about anime during some Japanese premiere/press event and explicitly mentioned Birdy the Mighty as one of his influences. There's a clip of it somewhere out there, maybe I can find it.

If you look at some of the fights in Man of Steel, the similarity is pretty striking. I thought the movie was stupid, but it had some incredible visual panache.

>>13897426

It would have worked if it wasn't Superman, but that's not here or there.

>>13897426
Also those neat sparks.
Fuckin love sparks.

>>13897430
The sound effects and the explosion of light whenever Birdy would jump/land as well. The entire show had so many great sound effects.

>>13897451
Did any of the animation team from Birdy work on Yozakura Quartet? The fight sequences in YZQ felt very similiar, and were also top tier.

>>13897427
>It would have worked if it wasn't Superman, but that's not here or there

I dunno man a lot of recent Superman works adapt some very /a/ shit.

Consider this fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbINsrfshyw

Compared with earlier versions of Superman and Darkseid fighting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km5DgeLDkNI

Ironically both are animated by Koreans

>>13897467

I meant the movie's tone

>>13897467
>I dunno man a lot of recent Superman works adapt some very /a/ shit.

No. Snyder in general has a hard time understanding the source material on pretty much .. ALL of his projects.

His misinterpretation of watchmen is especially egregious. He always latches onto the shallowist aspects of the work

>>13897482
>>13897474

I thought we were talking about fight choreography, not whether or not a Superman movie should be filled with depression and ultramurder

>>13897482
>Snyder in general has a hard time understanding the source material on pretty much .. ALL of his projects.

Nah man not all

He managed to pick up on Frank Miller's hatred of brown sand people and amplify it 100% in 300

He doesn't ALWAYS miss the mark

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>>13897487
I mean, who doesn't hate brown sand people?

>>13897490
>even a broken clock hates brown sand people twice a day

>>13897482
>His misinterpretation of watchmen is especially egregious. He always latches onto the shallowist aspects of the work
Watchmen isn't really all that amazing. It's primarily plot is built around a Ronald Reagan speech. I remember reading the trade issues when they came out, and for as great as the art is, a lot of the content is quite frankly dull.

The movie wasn't that bad from a movie standpoint.

>>13897494

Yeah Gibbons' panel work is by far the high point of the book.

I guess edgy teens would be big fans of the plot. It's hardly Moore's best work (that would be Supreme).

>>13897494
>Watchmen isn't really all that amazing. It's primarily plot is built around a Ronald Reagan speech. I remember reading the trade issues when they came out, and for as great as the art is, a lot of the content is quite frankly dull.
How can you be this wrong.

>>13897498
Ooh or Miracle/Marvelman, that's great. I'm a big fan of ORIGINAL WRITER's take on Captain Marvel in that book.

>>13897494
I haven't read Watchmen since I was a 10th-grade faggot who thought Evangelion was the pinnacle of anime, but what I remember liking was how it just shit all over the superhero comic paradigm. I felt like I'd never have to read another cape comic after that. It was a great deconstruction, if I remember it well enough. Been meaning to re-read it for a while now.

>>13897487
>>13897482
Snyder should stick to a DP role, honestly. He shouldn't be allowed to tamper with scripts. He's not a sophisticated storyteller in the slightest, but he can shoot a mean fight scene.

>>13897518
> I felt like I'd never have to read another cape comic after that

But Moore's post-Watchmen reconstruction cape work clearly indicates that was never his intention

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Season 2 > Season 1

S1's non-stop highschool romance faggotry was unbearable. Shyamalan was a boring villain who didn't do shit. The two episodes on Alta were the highlight. S2 was better in part for having less Tsutomu and more aliens. The villains actually did things and took an active role. The flashback arc was chill and lil' Birdy is adorable. Nataru was an insufferable edgelord but I can look past that.

If the entire series took place off Earth, it would be immensely improved.

>>13897532
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6kc8utR5lg
Posting best Birdy track.

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>>13897483
>I thought we were talking about fight choreography, not whether or not a Superman movie should be filled with depression and ultramurder


Well they're kind of related, I'd say.

In watchmen the fights weren't supposed to be all super cool and badass. They where supposed to show how fucked up this shit really was because Nightowl can't get a boner otherwise.

And as for Superman, while it's true he's strong and can get into cool fights he really shouldn't be doing it in a populated city with no regard for the population. He should have struggling to keep people out of harms way.

Fuck event he Avengers at least gave the idea lip service and ATTEMPTED to minimize damage

>>13897387
It's the purest expression of a cartoon.

>>13897547
I'm pissed this song didn't play more often. Is there a name for this style of music? Kind of house music/jazz whatever, I don't know.

>>13897552
>And as for Superman, while it's true he's strong and can get into cool fights he really shouldn't be doing it in a populated city with no regard for the population. He should have struggling to keep people out of harms way.

What, no. He should have saved them effortlessly, THEN fought the bad guy in the city, causing massive destruction.

That's how Superman does things.

He only "takes the fight out of the city" when the opponent outright challenges him; most of his opponents initiate within the city and are too powerful to be moved, causing large sections of Metropolis to be levelled sometimes.

Shit I can only think of one instance of Superman trying the "lead the massive monster away from Metropolis in order to minimize destruction" thing, and that was reboot Superman (the one people criticize for being edgy). Normally he just punches it in the face because it's already busy trashing the city anyway.

>>13897552
Agreed. I liked the fight in Birdy, but that worked because they were fighting in a completely deserted area, unlike Superman. It was just too distracting thinking about all the property damage and dead civvies otherwise.

The fight in Smallville with Zod's goons was pretty cool though.

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>>13897413

Because it's freaking hilarious man.

>>13897584
A classic.

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>>13897570

Well see by all accounts Superman should have been absurdly stronger than Zodd was.

So that's where they play on his "weakness' his conscious. So instead of being able to beat them Superman is flying catch up.

He has to catch people from buildings as Zodd blasts him

He has to shield them from debris as Zodd wails on him.

If he could fight on equal footing he'd over power zodd effortless but Zodd knew this and that's why he tries to confront superman in the center of the city.

Now Superman is at a disadvantage. He can't under any circumstance abandon those people. He won't. Not for a second. And Zodd laughs. He calls Kal el weak. He calls him a disgrace to his heritage.

And then he has the "man of steel" at his mercy. He's gloating. He's completely assuredly of victory and then that's when Superman hears it. A police radio that was left behind.

"WE'RE CLEAR! EVERYONE IS OUT OF THE HOT ZONE"

And then Clark smiles back.

"Heh, you may be right, Zodd. Maybe Im not a real kryptonian. But if being one means being like you? Well then Im happy calling myself an earthling."

And then Superman fights back.

BLAM!

With one punch Zodd is sent flying into the sky. Into the upper. He tries to balance himself but Superman is already on him. He smashes Zodd with all his strength back into the ground, where he lands in the middle of desert. Far from people. Far from someone who could get hurt. And as Zodd struggles to his feet, it's now the man of tomorrow who has the upper hand.

"stand down, zodd. Ill only tell you once" and Zodd refuses and with hesitation Superman activates his trump card. He has his father's pod open a portal to the phantom zone and he tosses Zodd and his soldiers into it"

The day saved superman reflects on the fact that he now truly is the last kryptonian on earth but seeing the faces of the people he saved? Seeing Lois? He doesn't really mind that so much.

>>13897620

Nah mayne I'd prefer it if Zod offed himself in an ironic or tragic fashion

That's how cape movie villains are supposed to go out

>>13897500
You're right, I said it's when I meant its.

>>13897648

Literally unforgivable, anon.

>>13897620
You just described the final battle in Justice League Unlimited.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwU0QkcrNVQ

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>>13897641

well I was gonna go for a Richard Donner thing

>>13897620
The scene where they kiss and Lois says something like "doesn't it go downhill after the first kiss" or w/e made me fling my hands up in anger. It's when I could officially confirm Man of Steel had shit writing. Would much prefer your version.

>>13897656

I took more than some inspiration from that, yes.

It was good. I would have wormed the "dreams" speech in there too if I could

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGtiinR6ni8

>>13897552
>In watchmen the fights weren't supposed to be all super cool and badass. They where supposed to show how fucked up this shit really was because Nightowl can't get a boner otherwise.

That's not it. The reason the fights were so lacking in any real impact in Watchmen was to contrast with how violent all the death you see in NYC at the end.

>>13897657

Everything else in MoS would have been worth it is Supes threw his emblem like a cloth to entangle Zodd.

>>13897673

either way making the fights all cool and shit is missing the point

Zodd was a mistake as first villains go.

They should have used, I dunno, Metallo or something. That'd be cool. Would set up lex luthor as a villain expand the world and could have a fight without ending in Man or Murder

>>13897696

This, Snyder should have used the fight choreographer Nolan later used in TDKR for Watchmen

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Yeah, this is cool and all you guys, but does Superman have an Ass of Steel more supple than Birdy's?

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>>13897713

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYtdl9BrKUc

>>13897696
The fights are a really minimal part of the movie so it didn't really bother me. My problem was that it felt like Snyder was told that he had to hit specific bullet points from the comic and do specific things, because outside of the scenes that are clearly his influence, you could tell me someone else directed it and I'd believe you.

I enjoyed the movie, and it definitely has some real faults, but at the end of the day when I look back on it all I think is "...it was okay". It came and went, which really shows the lack of impact I think it had.

>>13897736
>The fights are a really minimal part of the movie

It's just a very easy to point to example of snyder's inability to understand the works he's adapting

>>13897776
Just because Dawn of the Dead remake changed zombies forever doesn't make it a bad movie.

>>13897781

doesn't make it a good one either

>>13897795
I liked it.

Honestly I fell off the show a couple of eps into season 2.

>>13897371
I don't know, because it looks like absolute garbage and they didn't bother to fix it for the BD? Stop defending trash, sacraficing design for fluidity is a terrible idea that makes everything looks shittier.


Another good example is the fight scene in Toradora, they aimed to have it be more fluid, but it caused the characters to look like dogshit.

>>13898084
but it doesn't, unless you're specificallly pausing each frame to look at the characters.
this is the same stupid shit people do in /a/ QAULITY threads where they think a smear is evidence of bad animation.
animation is about movement, not still frames, and a TV series doesn't have the time nor budget to have movie quality animation.

>>13898090
Get your eyes checked, if you can tell how awful the characters are drawn when they're in motion. That's entirely on the animators and the director who approved it. You don't need single shots of QUALITY, especially for a train wreck scene in like the OP.

>>13898113
I can accept off model characters if the movement is given proper weight and speed.
Especially if its a TV anime, where time constraints and budgetary concerns need to be factored in.

>>13898118
Well I don't because I have something you lack, basic standards.

>>13898113
Your entire argument hangs on the basis that the characters look awful in a given situation, but that isn't even the case in any of these scenes. We can argue about subjectivity until the end of time, but you can't claim they aren't disproportional, move weirdly, or exhibit any other behavior indicative of legitimately bad animation. The fact of the matter is that this isn't to your taste, but don't try and pretend that means it's shit quality.

>>13898127
Not every anime can reach Royal Space Force or Akira levels of animation quality, anon.
Did you stop watching SDF because of the Jenius knife fight?
Or hell, most of 0079?

>>13898136
>>13898139
It's not a given situation, it's the entire scene. It was badly animated throughout, not just inbetweener scenes, THE ENTIRE SCENE. And they didn't go to fix it during the BD release because they spouted the bullshit you are eating up that it was an intentional choice of style. Which is them just trying to justify their incompetence.

Also the other faggot creates a strawman by saying everything needs to have OVA like animation to be good. You can eat shit trying to pull that one out.

>>13898150
ur stupid an dum

>>13897781
>Just because Dawn of the Dead remake changed zombies forever
Yeah, but 28 Days Later came out 2 years beforehand.

>>/tv/

>>13897277
Zack Snyder admittted he ripped off biidy for man of steel.

>>13898150
>It was badly animated throughout, not just inbetweener scenes, THE ENTIRE SCENE
Not him, but he's right.
The Max/Milia knife fight was Flintstones-tier. That doesn't stop the show from being good overall. If you drop everything that isn't perfect, you'll have nothing to watch.
Most shows are going to have to cut corners wherever they can, just to get the show finished on budget. It can still be a good show even if it has a few flaws.

>>13898391
>Flintstones
That's not a fair comparison. While the use of backgrounds was cheap as usual for Hanna-Barbera, the actual character animation was good in that show.

Otherwise, you are right.

>>13898391
Anime of the 70s and 80s get the excuse of QUALITY because it all had to be hand drawn. Shit like birdy, which is CG has no excuse due to the fact that it can be done much more quickly and efficiently.

>>13898127
>Translation: Naruto and Bleach are my favorite animes because the characters never move.

>>13900257
The lines are still drawn by hand, you fuckwit. Only the coloring is faster. And coloring had always been done by talentless wage slaves.

>>13897781
>Just because Dawn of the Dead remake changed zombies forever doesn't make it a bad movie.
Didn't British zombies come out like 2 years earlier?

>>13901847
Yes.
>>13898169

>>13900452
>And coloring had always been done by talentless wage slaves.


and that's an argument how?

>>13898391
Why use Flintstones as an example of bad animation when it looked better than what you're defending?

>>13897490
Columbia City?

>>13897566

I think it popped up enough though varying iterations/mixes. Though >>13897547 is the best version.

>>13902024
Because computers don't magically make drawing easier, no matter how much you scream it does. And keyframes are still typically drawn on paper with pencil. But you're probably one of those fucktards that think the outlines you see in the final animation are the same ones the key animators drew.

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God I wish we got more of this show. Or a live action one based on Decode.

>>13897301
>>13897277
That's Shingo Yamashita's work. Norio's scenes were right before that.

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>>13897413
>>13897371
>>13897387
This is also by Shingo Yamashita, and he is responsible for the infamous Pain scene in Naruto. He animated the first 7 minutes or so of that episode, Norio Matsumoto did the later part of the episode.

>He also gave us the infamous "I can see you" Nurutu image.
The latter was responsible for this scene though.

I should add you only see Norio use squash and stretch this much when he works with Atsushi Wakabayashi, his stuff normally doesn't deform as much like in this webm.

>>13897461
Not all, but a number of them did. Animators like Ryo-timo and Shingo Yamashita did more directing work in Yozakura though, leaving the animation to younger animators like Ryu Nakayama and Shun Enokido.

>>13897371
That scene may not appeal to everyone, but I get the intention behind its visual roughness. Birdy is supposed to be distressed in that scene and the rough drawings help sell that emotion, much like Shinji Hashimoto's work in Kaguya-hime where the titular character flees the palace after being greatly upset by the party.

>>13898084
>Another good example is the fight scene in Toradora, they aimed to have it be more fluid, but it caused the characters to look like dogshit.

Nigga you've got shit taste. Numata's drawings gave the girls such sexy hair.

You guys circlejerk so fucking hard, wow did this thread go to shit.

>>13910841
Thread was shit from the start.

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>>13910835

>>13910888
>>13910835
>Sexy hair
A single color blob that's just moving around like an epileptic at a disco club.

You find quadriplegics sexy too?

>>13910752
If anything computers make people more lazy since they just use photoshop paintbucket to get away with the bare minimum.

>>13910888
>>13897272
>>13897274
>>13897277
>>13897279
>>13897371
Scenes like this look like garbage because of that since the bodies are free form and there is nothing solid about them.

>>13910897
>>13910888
>not liking those loose, messy strands

It's okay to admit you've got shit taste in animation anon.

>>13910897
>You find quadriplegics sexy too?
Actually yes.

i'd budge into her tightness, if you know what i mean.

>>13910906
you should probably stop talking out your ass.

>>13910916
Prove me wrong

>>13910906
>Scenes like this look like garbage because of that since the bodies are free form and there is nothing solid about them.

>what is cartooning
Realistic animation is nice and all, but it's not the only "correct" way of animating. The Warner animators working on Looney Tunes are just as good as their Disney counter parts who preferred more realistic animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk-Xw_aIePo

>>13910906
>If anything computers make people more lazy since they just use photoshop paintbucket to get away with the bare minimum.
Who? Animators? If anything, the advent of digital colouring forced animators to draw with more precise lines, otherwise it would give the composite team more work to connect the loose lines for them to work with the fill tool properly.

>>13910906
>photoshop paint bucket tool
Literally what?

90% of this thread aside, what subs do I go with if I want to get into this show?