What if Lalah had lived?

Scirocco steals Lalah from Char with his Newtype swag
Char drops Earth on Jupiter in retaliation

>>13498260
You haven't read Gundam-san?

>>13498280
>Scirocco steals Char from Lalah with his Newtype swag
>Lalah doesn't care because she was kuking Char with Amuro the entire time
ftfy senpai

How does that scenario go in Gundam Vs. Zeta Gundam again?

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>>13498260

Char gets killed instead and Lalah takes over his role in Zeta and CCA

>>13498260
Amuro kills Char.
Lalah becomes enraged and hates Amuro
She later pilots the Zeong and kills Amuro
Zeeks win
Zeta doesn't happen
ZZ doesn't happen
CCA doesn't happen
Unicorn doesn't happen
Victory still happens

>>13498377
Do you think she's the vengeful type? She cared about both of them, I don't think she would kill Amuro. I think she'd just off herself.
As a result, Amuro would still be depressed but not be obsessed with killing Char. He'd focus on fighting Zeon. No Char means Kycilia lives. I think Zeta and ZZ would still happen, CCA wouldn't exist of course.

>>13498685
>No Char means Kycilia lives. I think Zeta and ZZ would still happen, CCA wouldn't exist of course.

Or would Zeta happen anyways b/c there'd still be Titans running afoul needing to be put down? Yeah, you wouldn't have Quattro, but I don't think removing him would be like say, removing Kamille from the plot. And then if Kycilia lives, you could just insert her for Haman to make ZZ happen. CCA obviously wouldn't happen, but who's to say that someone else couldn't have come to the same conclusion as Char and also carried out the same MO?

>>13498260
So, Lalah saves Char by ramming Gundam, so they both retreat.
At A Bao A Qu Lalah gets Zeong, while Char gets an upgrade like a CDA modified hand and modified rifle.
Lalah and Char are planning a coup against Gihren with Kycillia.
Battle goes as in 0079, Kycilia kills Gihren
Char manages to defeat the Gundam, Amuro is wounded and picked up by EFSF ship.
Sayla is searching for Amuro and Char on the battlefield and gets hit by a ship AA cannon. She gets captured.
White base gets hit and makes a crash landing on A Bao A Qu. Kai and Hayato are defending the ship.
Char and Lalah are leaving their mobile suits to recharge the batteries only to learn that Sayla's kept in the prison block.
Char goes to Kycilia to ask her permission to interrogate the prisoner. "She's my sister and maybe we may use her in our agitation campaigns". Kycilia is refusing, but later she gives in and gives Char the keys to the prison block.
Lalah is wrecking the EF forces only to connect to the White Base talk and gives them an advice to follow Char's plan.
In the prison block Sayla starts a riot and Char joins them. Sayla and the rioteers are helping the White Base crew while Lalah is damaging Kycilia's escape ship on purpose. "There was a GM!"
Char and rioteers are arresting/killing Kycilia and achieve the cease-fire with EFSF commanders.
The war ends with signing a peace treaty. Zeon manages to keep the army, A Bao A Qu fortress and the town of Granada but has to pay the reparations. Parts of Zeonic and Zimmad are bought out by Melanie Hue Carbine of Anaheim Electronics.
Char, Lalah, Sayla and Amuro are having a dinner. Char and Lalah consider Amuro as their friend, Sayla says that she doesn't want to be a politician.
The Republic of Zeon is ruled by Char Aznable's government. Lalah becomes Char's wife and First Lady. Admiral Maharajah Karn becomes the commander of the space forces His daughter, Haman, becomes the pupil of Lalah and later - the commander of the guard
That's not all

>>13498857
Yeah, Kamille would still be part of Zeta. I think he'd just be more unstable without Char as a positive father figure/mentor

>>13498377
Char and Amuro really didn't effect the battle that much. Both took out a good number on each side but in the end it was a huge battle with many units doing stuff and Amuro and Char disappeared for half of it.

If Zeon lost but killed Amuro they are still fucked with no trained pilots, most areas gone and lacking resources. If Zeon won but killed Amuro the battle weakens them to a state that any other attack is total victory for the feddies

Also Amuro was a lot better pilot than Lalah

>>13498889
Solar Ray is rebuilt back into colony.
The Axis becomes the center of the Asteroid Belt mining operations, the mining settlements are growing larger and the mines mostly belong to the state.
The pro-Zabi extremists are kidnapping Mineva and Zenna Zabi and launching numerous attacks on the EF objects. The Zeonic Scare starts, Titans are created as paramilitary organisation and a political movement.
Sayla becomes the doctor. Mirai and Bright are getting married, so do Fraw Bow and Hayato. Amuro becomes rich because of Haro royalties and becomes the target for the observation of the agents of Titans.
Nina Purpleton and Franklin Bidan are working together on new Gundam.
The Republic of Zeon creates new alloys for mobile suit armor.
Char is working hard on improving the reputaton of Zeon and finds himself terribly exhausted. He gets a vacation together with Lalah.
They are attacked by paramilitary forces of Titans and saved by Haman.
The beginning of a new war is the question of time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pLIBWyFBIg

>>13498260

> everything wrong with UC started with the death of Lalah

> implying Lalah's death inspired Degwin to start the One Year War
> implying Lalah's death caused the Federation leaders to be lazy, greedy shits whose apathy bred Zeon
> implying Lalah's death inspired the formation of the Titans
> implying Lalah's death left the Federation leaders so broke, tired and apathetic that they made no real effort to stop Haman or Zanscare

Lalah's death only really directly contributes to Char's Counterattack. Quattro would almost certainly have fought in Zeta regardless of whether she lived or died since he still had some investment in the future of newtypes and she may have even fought beside him.

> Amuro, Lalah and Char become friends and form a newtype corps for AEUG that terrorizes the shit out of the Titans

Even if Haman only becomes who she is because of Char leaving her, someone else would have taken over Axis in her place and attacked regardless, meaning ZZ would still happen in some form. As would F91 and Victory since the Federation would still be seen as weak.

>>13499039
CCA could still happen

Lalah does whatever Char says, if he still becomes disillusioned with the world and the lack of advancement to newtype space orgy he'd still do it. Lalah may not like it but she'd help

>>13499055
Nigguh, did you watch CCA. The only reason Char did ANYTHING in that was to provoke one final duel with Amuro over the love of Lalah. He didn't give a shit whether Neo Zeon succeeded in making Earth uninhabitable. If she was still alive and with Char, then why would he have to do that?

>>13498945
Didn't Char also shoot Kamille's father? So assuming that the first episode still happened about the same we're still going to have it that the AEUG is down a Mk. II, which would mean they don't have spare parts for the one they use and the Titans have a copy.
Granted the Mk II wasn't famous for its performance, just for test bedding technologies.

>>13499039
I love this path in Gundam Vs. Zeta Gundam.
Ryu and Sleggar are also alive in it.

>>13498889
>Sayla and the rioteers
That'd make a sweet band name.

>>13499081
Wow, you massively misread this film.

>>13498299
There are multiple outcomes.

IIRC, there's one where Amuro joins the AEUG straight-up and Char and Lalah fuck off to form Neo Zeon, and there's one where Amuro and Lalah join the Titans since they have a dedicated Newtype program. There's a bunch of other "Lalah Survives" branches, but they're mostly just "Zeon manages to survive the OYW in greater numbers" or other dumb shit.

>>13499525

Not him, but not really. It's both a valid and popular reading of the film, since Char seems to have a lot more investment and interest in his duel with Amuro over the Axis drop. There's a variant reading that he convinced himself that he cared about all the other stuff because he didn't want to think of himself as someone petty out for nothing but a duel, but was mostly motivated by a desire to fight Amuro which I think is more valid, but either one has some basis within the film itself.

If you don't think so then you can open a debate on the matter by explaining your reasons.

>>13499015
>Nina Purpleton and Franklin Bidan are working together on new Gundam.
Does this mean you'll die soon and someone will take over and cause the latter half of 0083 to happen?

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>>13499015
>Doctor Sayla becomes canon

>>13499525
It was always about proving that he was superior to Amuro, why do you think he spent their last fight trying to convince Amuro that he would be better off serving him and Neo Zeon? To quote one of the greatest villains of all time:

"A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness. To only kill them if necessary."

If Axis fell to earth, then he would have been the superior, if Amuro admitted he was wrong, then he would have been the superior, if he defeated Amuro in combat, then he would have been the superior. Char banked on there being a good chance that at least one of these things would happen. After all, Amuro was a member of A.E.U.G. which was a group that fought to make people realize that they should abandon Earth, there was a chance that Amuro would concede that humans won't give up Earth unless forced to.

Why do you think that Lalah was hovering around the entire movie? This was always about her. Char did mention in their encounter with Amuro at the controls of the Re-GZ, that he should be at the controls of a Gundam. Why did you think he designed the Sazabi to look just like a Gelgoog?

He wanted to recreate that last fight without Lalah in the way to prove that he would have won that fight. Amuro in his Gundam, Char in a Gelgoog (Or, a near enough approximation that could go head-to-head with the Gundam)

>>13499738

Char spends allot of time in their duels complaining about the state of the world and problems with the federation. If his only goal was overcoming Amuro he would have no reason to talk about those things. Rather than being essentialist about Char's two sets of goals and claiming that one is all important and the other is non-important, it makes more sense to look at both as bleeding into one another.

The fact that the best newtype in earthsphere disagreed with Chars newtype utopianism probably seemed like a pretty big slap in the face to Char. And Lalah was by in large an ebodiment of his newtype ideals, which Amuro destroyed.

Both sets of motivations, his political ideals, and his personal feelings, play an integral part to the whole that is Char. You miss out on the interplay between these elements by essentializing the personal side and ignoring the greater context of how Chars beliefs shapes how he sees himself in relation to the world.

Semi-related question, what do you think would happen if the OYW just ended in a stalemate at the battle of Solomon?

I'm running a Gundam PNP game with my friends and the last session they manage to destroy most of the solar ray allowing the Granada fleet to arrive in time and flank Tianem fleet and drive them back. So now there's the colony laser and the rebuilt solar ray staring at each other, waiting for the enemy to make the first move. Now I just want to end the OYW here with a stalemate and move onto Zeta era but I don't really know what should happen next, I didn't really plan for the players to affect the war in a major way like this.

>>13498303
Paint Your Gundam

>>13499984
Think of it this way. Don't move directly to Zeta. A bunch of changes can be made simply by moving to 0083, like how Mobile Suit Gundam Online did. If that's cool with you as the GM, of course, and your group accepts it. I could understand wanting to move to Zeta to see less Zeon and more Titans as enemies.

Side note, what game is this being run on? And what rules are you using to calculate damage, Newtype awakening, suits used, etc.

>>13500109
But why would 0083 happen if Zeon wasn't defeated, Solomon never fell so there's no reason for Delaz fleet to move into the garden of thorns.

I'm running a system I made, it's very simple and barebone but I plan to add more when I have the time. Damage is calculated by which part of the enemy MS was hit + weapon damage - enemy MS armor type, I want the battles to be quick and simple like what you see in IGLOO and the first Origin. There's no newtype PC yet so I don't have anything down for that.

>>13499984
By the time of the battle of Solomon Zeon already lost.

>>13498982
>Also Amuro was a lot better pilot than Lalah

Not him, but if Lalah got the Zeong she would utterly rape Amuro because it's both a better MS and because she is very powerful Newtype, unlike Char, and the Zeong was made specifically for powerful Newtypes like her to bring out its full potential.

>>13500246
They can't win the war or go on the offensive but they could still prevent the federation from pushing closer to Side 3 or Granada. The whole point is that Zeon get a better peace treaty and remain an independent nation, I can think up of some condition the federation might impose on them but overall they're a bit better off than in the original OYW.

>>13498306
>Char was a young man who could have been my son!

What if instead of Amuro killing Lalah, Char killed Sayla trying to save Amuro

>>13498260
If I remember right, according to Gundam vs Zeta Gundam's UC mode, she ends up being used as a test subject for the Titans who Amuro then joins to support her, and the ay-yoog scum is crushed by the Titans shitting out Psycho Gundams and shit instead of Gundam Mk. IIs along with Amuro in a Titans paint Zeta.

That is wildly inaccurate on a bunch of levels, but it's pretty amusing fanfiction.

>>13500537
Best route is Char Axis route, you get to see Kamille join the Titan and have Jerid as a partner.

>>13500241
Maybe the Delaz Fleet refuses to accept the end of the war, and wants to inspire their fellow spacenoids into starting it back up?

Idk, you're the GM, you're supposed to make this shit up.

>>13500526
Why would Sayla be trying to kill Amuro, and why would Char try to save him?

>>13501077
How about the players have to stop Cima from defecting to the federation with the prototype Neue Ziel, kinda like Red October. One of my player really like Cima so this should be a fun mental torture for him.
>>13501079
I think he mean Sayla try to save Amuro and Char accidentally kill her.

>>13499015
Paramilitaries of Titans are acting like the Alianza Anticommunista Argentina or Patriotic Knight Corps - killing the oppositioners and frightning the civilians, which are asking for making the colonial regime softer and giving certain rights to the colonies.
Just as it was before OYW, Zeon launches a propaganda campaign to get young recruits from other colonies and creates pro-zeon groups on colonies.
Days before the war the son of Franklin Bidan, Kamille, joins the zeonic revolutionary group of the Side 7 and manages to steal the Gundam Mk 2.
Franklin Bidan's family is arrested, their neighbours are being interrogated.
Char meets with Kamille and lets him join the elite guard led by Haman Karn. Yet Kamille is being watched by the intelligence officers.
Side 3 newtype research institute and Intelligence Service find out about EF Enhanced Human program.
The excuse for a war is the assassination attempt againsh Char, led by pro-earthnoid paramilitaries before, the information about Solar Ray II built in the Side 7 and the general dislike for post-war reparations.
The war starts with the capturing the moon towns of Anaheim and Von Braun. The means of production of the moon are nationalised and used to supply the army of Zeon, Melanie Hue Carbine is arrested.
Pro-Zabi movement, which was funded as the opposition for Char's regime, fades away. Delaz and Gato surrender and asking for a permission to join the army again. Mineva is being adopted by Lalah and Char.
Side 6 and Side 4 are in flames because of pro-Zeon riots. Army and fleet are used to supress them.

>>13498260
She would had been like a mother to Char, duh.

>>13501187
What would she even do? Make sure Char put on his normal suit correctly and packing him space lunch?

>>13501200
Of course. Also, she'd make him hot cocoa and she'd read him picture books before going to bed every night.

>>13501212
>picture books
I think that they would read books about philosophy and politics before sleep.
Something like "Anti-Duhring"

>>13499984
Side 3 tries to take off into deep space away from the federation.
Future conflict is federation sending small forces to try and catch up to bring them back while Zeon deals with sparse resources.

>>13501459

Why would the Federation even want them back? They let Side 4 secede when they wanted, and have never shown any desire to expand to include other territories like Mars or Jupiter. Outside of the Titans the Federation never acts when colonies try to become independent, only when those newly independent colonies start shit with them out of a desire to expand their own influence. A colony fucking off in to deep space holds no attraction for them, not even for the Titans who would have more to worry about in the Earthsphere itself.

>>13501200
She would have shown Char a path that did not require destroying the earth in order to save it.

>>13499896
>Both sets of motivations, his political ideals, and his personal feelings, play an integral part to the whole that is Char. You miss out on the interplay between these elements by essentializing the personal side and ignoring the greater context of how Chars beliefs shapes how he sees himself in relation to the world.

Yeah, that's the thing that the other guys were missing. There's a lot of time spent in Zeta where Char ruminates on how humans are pulled down by gravity, and Char is basically on friendly terms with Amuro at that point and Amuro largely agrees and they're actually very friendly. The difference is that somewhere along the line, Char gave up his faith in humanity to move forward on its own and decided to take matters into his own hands. He pleads with Amuro during the battle because he'd rather NOT be fighting, knowing that they do both share common goals and ideals, they simply differ on the methods.

So knowing that Amuro would oppose him (being part of Londo Bell) he gives Amuro the hookup not because he WANTS a duel per say, but because if he has to fight a man he respects and at one time was basically a friend (during Zeta), then he doesn't want it to be a one-sided stomp because one of Char's biggest weaknesses all along was his stubborn pride-streak, and he probably couldn't stomach the fact that he'd kill Amuro knowing Amuro had no realistic way of fighting back fairly.

When he starts bitching about Lalah, that's basically Char at the end of his rope, staring down and coping with defeat (and maybe even death) by lashing out in vain.

>>13501473
>They let Side 4 secede when they wanted
Not the Side 4, Side 6.
Without the support of Principality it wouldn't achieve the independence.
The difference between Side 6 and Side 3 is that Side 6 kept its connections with the feds while Zeon was totally separated from EF.

>>13498260
What about the reality where Hitler cured cancer MORTY the answer is don't think about it!

>>13501212
>Char actually had a ageplay fetish.

>>13501474
Looking at Victory and the rest of late UC, I don't think there's a way for humanity to reach understanding.

>>13499657

Even when Char lost he was still happy and mocking Amuro that Axis was gonna fall anyway. He doesn't start with his breakdown until Amuro starts to thwart that too.

So he definitely cared more about Axis than their duel, since was seemingly fine with losing it so long as his plan went through anyway.

>>13501150
>making Cima suffer
You're a horrible GM