What did he mean by this?

>>13489888
He never agreed with the Zabi family in the first place so it didn't count as a real betrayal. that's the closest i can come to justifying it. Garma didn't derserve it.

Or maybe it's just Char being the badly written character he is.

>>13489888
He meant he never betrayed his backstabbing reputation.

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>>13489888
Sometimes I wonder if Char actually knew what was going on or if he was just Homer-ing his way through the universe.

By the way, anybody got the "Married with Newtypes" screencaps?

>>13489914
Based on his changes in cca its safe to assume that Tomino was always just being a hack though.
This is just one of minor issues with Zeta.

>>13489888
He can't betray anyone if he never sided with them. He was just using everyone as a means to accomplish his goals. He was never on anyone's side but his own, people just assumed that he was on their side because he appeared to have similar goals.

>>13489926
>Based on his changes in cca
No, just you being a moron. His actions in CCA make perfect sense if you paid attention to his character arc and understood him beyond a superficial level

>>13489920
Often humans have flaws. They say one thing, but they contradict it with their actions, perhaps without even realizing it. People have a distorted idea of themselves.

Char has always been an ass. Even when he killed the true Char, probably felt justified in doing so because he was completely devoted to his revenge. After Z, his flaws and contradictions have not disappeared.

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>>13490023
I prefer to think that Char was an idiot who convinced people of his merit by blindly acting his way through situations he didn't understand.
And everybody who actually knew he was a moron died or got brain damage before that information could spread.

>>13489888
That he was only ever loyal to himself.
Are you 10 or something? You don't understand subtext?

>>13489888
Literally what he said.Char has an inexhaustible capacity of unconditionally believing his own bullshit.

>>13490040
It is a rather convoluted way of saying something like this.

>>13490038
>I prefer to think that Char was an idiot who convinced people of his merit by blindly acting his way through situations he didn't understand.

Why in the HELL would you "prefer" that?

Char legitimately believes he never betrayed anyone, he's constantly trying to justify his own actions, and when you do that for years on end you start believing your own bullshit. It's why he can say that to someone who specifically and intentionally betrayed with a straight face.

>>13489942

> No, just you being a moron. His actions in CCA make perfect sense if you paid attention to his character arc and understood him beyond a superficial level

Not him, but there is a clear difference of intended arc between Char in Zeta and Char in Char's Counterattack. The fact we have documented proof saying that Char in Zeta and Zeta part II was originally meant to go a different direction should be pretty conclusive evidence that that's so. Tomino mostly managed to make the chance in direction to accommodate Char's Counterattack smooth and I'd never say he was a hack, just someone looking to account for changes in desired direction by his bosses at Sunrise as best he can, but there are still some discrepancies that make it fairly plain there was a change in direction along the line.

Char in Zeta is striving to be a better person, has started getting over Lalah, even makes peace with Amuro over it as a consequence of the war they were in and even flatly denies to Haman that he is really a dictator at heart when threatened at gunpoint. Then in Char's Counterattack we're supposed to assume that all that was a lie (despite no real evidence to point to in the show itself) and he reverts to being a cliffnotes version of himself from 0079: driven by somewhat petty reasons to commit shitty acts, piloting a red suit and obsessed with Amuro so they can have one final and going by Zeta, not actually necessary show down.

>>13490139
Because it makes more sense in context of all the shit that happened

>>13490188
>Char in Zeta is striving to be a better person,
this is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever read

Char was never a good guy in Zeta, in fact he has more in line with Syrup. They both want everyone off earth, don't really have a problem with cyber newtypes/general abusing people for their own goals and never see themselves as part of a team but above it. Char is an abusive and manipulative person who is never truly open to anyone

>has started getting over Lalah
one of the first thing we here him say in Zeta is "is that lalah or amuro?" the due is still obsessed

>>13490188
All wrong.

CCA was only greenlit halfway into ZZ'S, DOUBLE ZETA'S, DEVELOPMENT. Quit it with this tired ass myth. ZZ first started airing a year before the first volume of High Streamers was even out. It's a fucking meme at this point, one that only circulates /m/.

Also you're flat out wrong. In Zeta Char angrily refuses to wait for humanity to become newtypes naturally (Dr. Hasan's advice) and says that Earth will be ruined by then. Haman and Scirocco also correctly call him out on wanting to have the world in his hands. Scirocco even correctly points out that Char is too emotional to simply let things go and wait. Even the original plans for ZZ had Char come back, kill Haman, and take over Neo-Zeon for his own purposes.

>>13490188
Oh, by the way. Since you've clearly never seen Zeta when asked why he's come back to Earth Char out rights says he returned to the Earth because he didn't feel Lalah's spirit past Mars. Char literally tells Amuro that he's still chasing ghosts. They both are.

>>13490210

> Char was never a good guy in Zeta, in fact he has more in line with Syrup.

I have no idea who that is, but okay.

> They both want everyone off earth

True, but in Zeta, even up to the finale, he acts like someone who is willing to wait and give it time for people to naturally migrate off Earth. Just like Amuro in Char's Counterattack in fact.

> don't really have a problem with cyber newtypes/general abusing people for their own goals

I'm sorry, what? He acts worried when Kamille says he doesn't want to think about how newtypes treat each other or do nothing but kill.

> and never see themselves as part of a team but above it

I'd say he does see himself as part of a team given that he becomes AEUG spokesman despite his reservations because of people's expectations and both supports and is supportive of the other pilots, especially Kamille. Which is kind of the definition of teamwork really.

> Char is an abusive and manipulative person who is never truly open to anyone

Char is a hurt loner in Zeta who is struggling with his past but the way he acts towards Amuro and his relationship with Kamille paints a picture of someone who wants to get past it. He certainly manipulates Reccoa, but does seem to be doing so only to ensure the AEUG have a pilot and is only willing to go so far to do so.

> one of the first thing we here him say in Zeta is "is that lalah or amuro?" the due is still obsessed

He wonders if it's one of the few newtypes he has experience with when he gets a newtype flash and then dismisses either possibility, you don't say. How very shocking. I'm sure that's much more conclusive than him literally telling Amuro to get over her for instance.

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>>13490257
>I have no idea who that is
get out

> he acts like someone who is willing to wait
IF ONLY THERE WAS A WAY TO MOVE ALL THE POLITICIANS TO SPACE. Yeah he is totally willing to wait, he never talks about it like people need to be forced off earth

>I'm sorry, what?
Scene in med bay where the doctor talks to them about it, Char has no real issue with it while Kamile is angry. Char wants everyone to evolve and has no issue with a fast way

>He acts worried when Kamille says he doesn't want to think about how newtypes treat each other or do nothing but kill.
That wasn't even to do with his view on cyber newtypes, just that he believes they are better and doesn't like people having different views

>given that he becomes AEUG spokesman
And funnily enough he pushes for ideals that fit well with his own, he never took charge of it despite many people asking him to. He even says he is a free agent

> struggling with his past
He never is regretful of any of it but Lalah's death

>He certainly manipulates Reccoa
But we should just ignore that? And we should just ignore he is th eone pushing little kids in mobile suits to see what happens. And I guess forget he literally constantly lies about his identity

>He wonders if it's one of the few newtypes he has experience
He literally says he couldn't find Lalah past Mars so came back

In conclusion I don't actually think you've seen Zeta.

>>13489888
One does not care to acknowledge the mistakes of his own youth

>>13489888
That people are idiots to trust him in the first place.

>CCA Char makes no sense
Retards.

>all these tominfags sucking his cock trying to defend shitty writing

>>13490570
>compulsive liar claims he's not a compulsive liar
>somehow this is bad writing
lolkay

Char was never supposed to go CCA anyway.

His Quattro phase was supposed to stick, or at least he was supposed to be a 3rd party in the Neo Zeon war with nothing about dropping an Asteroids.

Then CCA got greenlit and Tomino changed gears and set things up at the expense of all else so Char could revert to being like he was in MSG, his most popular phase and have a big final battle with Amuro before offing them both and ending Gundam's story.

>>13489888
Casval Deikun is a lying bastard, anon.

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>>13489926
Ebin Tomino-is-shit bait newfriend.

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>mfw Origins made him out to be the truly dangerous sociopath he is.

>>13490641
We already knew he was, anon. You don't need Origin to tell you that if you've seen MSG.
Remember that time he shot those old men disembarking in the middle of the desert? Remember when he had that talk with Kycilia about giving up his revenge mission and focusing on the future of all newtypes, then a few episodes later shot her in the face with a laser bazooka? Remember him laughing when Garma died?

>>13490603
>Char was never supposed to go CCA anyway
>His Quattro phase was supposed to stick
>muh headcanon

>>13490666
Char has never been truer to himself than when he whined to Amuro about how an ex prostitute could have replaced his dead mom.

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>>13490666
most anons crush Quattro too hard, gloss over 0079 in favor of whining about CCA

>>13490666
Who knows who were those old men. When you're in the war zone you have to think of it later.

>>13490732
>slutshaming Lalah
really bro?

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>>13490732
This

Char didn't really know who he was, wear a mask for so long etc. After he left for the military academy he has just been playing certain roles, I don't think he ever really had a goal just vague ideas about newtypes and earth. So when CCA comes around he tried to go back, be the leader of Zeon like he was meant to be, fight the federation's hero and create more newtypes. But really all he wants is Lalah as she is the one person to ever understand him

it is possible he thought more newtypes meant more may understand him and lead him to a better place but the idea is iffy

>>13490756
If he's slutshaming Lalah, he's not a bro.

>>13490231

> CCA was only greenlit halfway into ZZ'S, DOUBLE ZETA'S, DEVELOPMENT. Quit it with this tired ass myth. ZZ first started airing a year before the first volume of High Streamers was even out. It's a fucking meme at this point, one that only circulates /m/.

Char was only due to show up half way in to ZZ to start with, working with and then assassinating Haman even going by the original plan (http://pastebin.com/0SkxGTUt). We also have no actual proof of when Char's Counterattack got greenlit, so no, it's not really a meme. You acting like you know more is certainly one though, because plenty of people do. Also, last I checked books take time to write, edit and publish - especially when you're doing other things like directing a tv show or movie. So yea, no shit it didn't come out until a year after ZZ.

> angrily refuses to wait for humanity to become newtypes naturally (Dr. Hasan's advice)

You do realize in that scene he's justifying the creation of cyber-newtypes over waiting for nature since nature would take so long, not saying that he thinks killing a huge number of people is justifiable as a means to do it or that he wouldn't be willing to wait and let people move in to space via encouragment like he had already done in Dakar? Even in Char's Counterattack this doesn't follow smoothly since while he has a cyber-newtype researcher he doesn't actually do anything with her and instead makes her work on the psycoframe. He's not really angry either by the way. Kamille is, but Char is emphatic at worst.

> Haman and Scirocco also correctly call him out on wanting to have the world in his hands

No, they call him out on it. He flat out denies it, even at gun point when Haman is threatening to shoot him if he denies it. Whether that's correct or not is I suppose open to interpretation, but it's certainly not an open and closed case of "they were right". The fact he won't admit it even at the point of a gun doesn't exactly scream "they're right" though.

>>13490834

> Scirocco even correctly points out that Char is too emotional to simply let things go and wait

How very odd then that in those scenes he keeps a good handle on his emotions and acts like he is unwilling to lie about something even at the point of a gun when pressed. In fact, he has a good handle on his emotions throughout the show, including when he meets Amuro, who was a cause of great emotional turmoil in the original.

> Even the original plans for ZZ had Char come back, kill Haman and take over Neo-Zeon for his own purpsoes.

I think you need to re-read it then, because he does kill Haman but it never mentions anything about him taking over Neo-Zeon and he in fact tries to help Judau by making him a better pilot according to the summary. It doesn't say anything about Neo-Zeon after Haman dies at all.

>>13490285

> IF ONLY THERE WAS A WAY TO MOVE ALL THE POLITICIANS TO SPACE.

Right now, every one of us would like to see the Earth remain alive and beautiful. And so on.

> Yea, he is totally willing to wait, he never talks about it like people to be forced off Earth.

He talks about forcing evolution by cybernetic means, but never anything more, like forcibly moving everyone off Earth at the point of a gun/asteroid. He and Amuro also share a drink while talking about how they need to inspire people to move off the Earth by such means as opposed to the way the Titans do things.

> Scene in med bay where the doctor talks to them about it, Char has no real issue with it while Kamile is angry. Char wants everyone to evolve and has no issue with a fast way

Yea, but his fast way is by perfecting cyber-newtypes, a process that would require a small number of sacrifices like Rosamia, not by any means necessary up to and including genocide. And I believe I may have mistaken your original point, since I thought you meant newtypes or cyber-newtypes abusing people, not abuse of people in general.

>>13490839

> That wasn't even to do with his view on cyber newtypes, just that he believes they are better and doesn't like people having different views

Seems pretty clear he acts worried that Kamille is unconcerned with thinking about the future of newtypes and how they treat each other.

> And funnily enough he pushes for ideals that fit well with his own, he never took charge of it despite many people asking him to. He even says he is a free agent

He also tells Amuro that he felt he had to give up his freedom to achieve what he wanted and laughs when Amuro suggests he is a sacrifice. And his ideals were in line with those of the AEUG all along. It's never suggested he's pushing for something that was outside what the AEUG was standing for the entire time. Amuro even congratulates him on doing a good job with the speech and that it might finally lead to people leaving for space.

> He never is regretful of any of it but Lalah's death

He doesn't want to be seen as Char Aznable anymore either, hence why he hides his identity and is so reluctant to reveal it until Dakar.

> But we should just ignore that?

No, but we should recognize that it doesn't define him and that even then he has limits. He refuses to pretend a romance with her like she obviously wants, which is what drives her to leave. She's also about the only person he manipulates in the show.

> And we should just ignore he is the one pushing little kids in mobile suits to see what happens.

Given that he was a child pilot himself and that so was his rival and many people in Zeon I don't think he'd even consider it manipulation, just normal. Who do you think he manipulated in to doing it though out of interest?

> And I guess forget he literally constantly lies about his identity

Do you actually consider lying synonymous with manipulation? Char lies because he doesn't want to be Char anymore, not because he's trying to get people to do something specific and that's the only way.

>>13490847

> He literally says he couldn't find Lalah past Mars so came back

He also tells Amuro that there's no reason to fear he'll never meet Lalah again and that he shouldn't simply stay on Earth out of fear, because if he goes to space he can feel her spirit there. Which is the point. Starting to move on does not need to mean "I've forgotten about her and am dating someone new and blissfully happy". It just means you've started trying to live your life despite it and that you've accepted that that person is dead and there's no need for anger. Char's found some way to deal with Lalah's death, no longer blames it on Amuro and is even able to encourage Amuro to stop letting her death define his life because doing so is tantamount to letting the Federation win. In the privacy of his own thoughts he acts confused about why Amuro no longer feels the need to fight like the other kids around and that he won't help like Katz obviously wants him to. Even in his own thoughts he doesn't show any hatred for Amuro.

> In conclusion I don't actually think you've seen Zeta.

In conclusion I think that's a silly conclusion anon. Disagreement doesn't mean lack of familiarity.

>Char was on the good guy team in zeta and some people liked him so why did he go bad?
I just don't even know

>>13490231

Actually, no. CCA was highlighted back when Zeta was airing. That's why they chose a complete different direction for ZZ. Because they fucking knew they would make a movie. That's why Char, Amuro and other original MSG characters don't even appear in ZZ. Because they knew they had a movie coming. In the next year.

Seriously, you're fucking retarded if you think the movie was only highlighted during mid-ZZ. It came out the next year, it was already underway when ZZ started you ignorant fool.

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>>13490858
>Even in his own thoughts he doesn't show any hatred for Amuro.
If he hated Amuro in CCA he wouldn't have leaked the Psycoframe to him.
When Char wants someone he hates dead he doesn't try to have an honourable fight on even ground with them

>>13489888
char did nothing wrong

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>>13490972
...agree

How many times in zeta do they need to say "he is a man who can't live without war"?

I'm only more amazed people can't understand that Char, does in fact, lie and that his mask is more than physical

>>13490992

I don't know, how many times did they say it? Also, just because you fight a war doesn't mean you need to instigate one. You could say Amuro couldn't live without war too. Doesn't mean he went around dropping rocks on folks.

Also Quattro doesn't tell any explicit lies in Zeta and his actions, dialogue and even thoughts portray someone who isn't lying and doesn't want to wear the "Char" mask anymore.

I'm only amazed more people can't understand that liking the direction that Quattro was going in and not having anything that paints it as anything other than genuine in Zeta makes it frustrating to see it diverted in Char's Counterattack. Not hard to understand or even to resolve, but it's definitely frustrating for a lot of folks.

>>13491057

> Also Quattro doesn't tell any explicit lies in Zeta

I should add "related to his actions being deceitful or so on" to that, since he obviously lied about his identity quite a lot.

>>13491077
That paradox of seeking to be honest while not being able to cast aside masks and secret identities is the crux of Char's character in Zeta.

While people can certainly feel frustrated at Char's character fluctuations throughout the series, that is mostly because Char throughout all series is a frustrated and unfulfilled character. So while I can understand fans' frustration that appears to me to not be a fault of the show but a sign that char's character works

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>>13489920
I think it was a combination of not wanting to look bad in front of the people he needed to cooperate with him for his own agendas at the moment and a major bruise to his ego. Char is all kinds of fucked up so I wouldn't put it behind him to constantly plays mental gymnastics so he can reject anything that strays from how he views himself over others, this is the same guy who thought he had the authority to drop a meteor onto earth in order to speed up the progress of humanity after all.

>>13491057
>Also Quattro doesn't tell any explicit lies in Zeta

Nigga he's telling one in the pic OP posted. Don't give me that shit about him technically not being on the same side because that doesn't change the fact he was still in the Zeon army, befriended Garma, screwed with his ego so he'd rush into battle, and then when he was at his most vulnerable completely turned his back on Garma while also taunting him on his flaming one way ticket to Baneville.

>>13491150

> While people can certainly feel frustrated at Char's character fluctuations throughout the series, that is mostly because Char throughout all series is a frustrated and unfulfilled character. So while I can understand fans' frustration that appears to me to not be a fault of the show but a sign that char's character works

See the thing is that Char in Char's Counterattack doesn't feel like a natural evolution of Char from Zeta. Even his regression doesn't feel natural, since he gets upset at stuff that he showed acceptance of in the past for no actual given reason as opposed to regressing because of something that happened to him or becoming an even more terrible person for no really adequately explained reason and doesn't really follow through on some of his complaints from Zeta and so on. You can resolve why via various means quite easily, but you have to do it because the film certainly doesn't. And the fact so many people use Kamille despite it making no sense given the context of the film itself should tell you just how big that gap is.

We know now that wasn't the original plan though so what frustrates me isn't so much Char's evolution in itself, which I don't actually mind personally since while I don't think it's nearly as interesting I can see the logic behind, it's that people just look at complaints and go "what a retard, he obviously missed such and such in Zeta and god, how do you fail to understand this because it was obviously always going to go this way".

>>13491186

You can't betray someone you never considered a friend in the first place anon.

>>13491192
Char please. Getting someone to trust you and then turning the other direction when they need you most is still betrayal.

>>13491189
>You can resolve why via various means quite easily, but you have to do it because the film certainly doesn't.

People will tell you that Sayla's exposition about him changing near the end of ZZ somehow make up for it all happening off screen... although it obviously doesn't and is no different from him just appearing already changed in CCA.

>>13491197
>People will tell you that Sayla's exposition about him changing near the end of ZZ somehow make up for it all happening off screen...


It kinda is though ZZ handled it in a really rushed shitty way. The show ended with the EF becoming super corrupt making nearly everything the crew in Zeta go through completely pointless so it's understandable why Char would finally get fed up and just force what he views as right onto them. Furthermore Char was always planning on rebuilding Zeon to carry out his father's ideals which why he was butting heads with Haman because she wanted to rebuild Zeon as well but with Zabi ideals.

>>13491196

You might as well claim he betrayed Kycilia and Zeon to be honest, since he superficially got their trust and turned on them when it suited him too. Char himself doesn't hold that view though and Char is quite obviously a pretty broken person so it's no surprise he finds no issue with it.

>>13491242

> Furthermore Char was always planning on rebuilding Zeon to carry out his father's ideals which why he was butting heads with Haman because she wanted to rebuild Zeon as well but with Zabi ideals.

Pretty sure he never mentions any such intention. Also, the Feds are basically back to status quo in ZZ from what I gather of them in 0079 and expanded material, rather than even more corrupt than ever. Zeon and the Titans were just so terrible they made the Feds look like the sane and good alternative because they wanted to maintain a stable, if somewhat unfair status quo instead of killing billions just to put some new guys on the throne essentially.

>>13490930
interesting take on it.

>>13490914
No, it wasn't you retard.

http://www.mahq.net/animation/gundam/zz/gzzmain.htm

>Director Yoshiyuki Tomino's original plan for the series called for the return of Char, but the storyline was rewritten halfway through when he received the approval to make the Char's Counterattack film, which premiered in 1988.

Halfway through ZZ gave them 1.5 years to produce the movie, which is more than enough. CCA's animation quality isn't even that good yet you think it took them over 2 years to produce it even though Sunrise had several studios worth of staff to work on it? It's absolutely nonsensical. Also the claim that people like Emma were killed off because of CCA doesn't even make sense. Even in the original draft she doesn't do anything important enough for her to stay alive. The change between ZZ and Zeta Part 2 were completely isolated from CCA. That's why ZZ suffers from whiplash half-way through when Glemmy suddenly becomes "a true leader of Zeon." If they had in fact changed their plans midway through Zeta ZZ would have been a much more cohesive series but it's not.

>>13491189

Maybe it is because I watched UC out of order ( back in the day all I really had access to is what ever the video store brought in, so I saw CCA before I saw the second msg movie and Zeta). But nothing ever really seemed strained to me, I've never had a problem thinking " this is the result of something else that happened in universe that I just haven't seen yet but is obvious".

Char mentions how fed up he was with the people of earth in CCA, which makes perfect sense after the failure that was the Gryps Wars ( I mean I guess they took out the Titans, but that was a very small part of Char's plans). He very explicitly states in Zeta that he is not over Lalah, and it makes sense that once everything goes to shit that he starts thinking about how things could have been different if she was around and start obsessing over her again. He affirms that using cyber newtypes is necessary in Zeta, and uses them in CCA. He says that the earth is dying and humanity needs to get off asap so it can heal in Zeta, and he goes to extreme measures to acheive this goal in CCA after failing in Zeta.

Yes, some of it is not explicitly stated, but it all seems very natural to me to the point where it would seem silly for it to be explicitly stated. Would it really be better if UC was like IBO where everything is 50% unnatural info dump ?
Everyone in universe more or less knows what Char's deal is in CCA, going through the reasons would be forced, so we get a sufficient amount of hints from the dialogue to figure out what is going on. I think that method is preferable.

>>13491331

> MAHQ
> a source

Good joke anon. Mark Simmons, who doesn't actually do much for MAHQ themselves anymore and hasn't with years by the looks of things is the central source for what little information we have on the original plans for 0079 and Zeta. He's never said shit about ZZ though. Even when he does give information though he only ever gets it from Gundam books because despite working for Sunrise he doesn't actually have any secret behind the scenes sources. There's no linked source for that ZZ claim. Therefor it's not an actual sourced piece of information, just speculation. We don't even know who's making it, because MAHQ has plenty of contributors.

>>13491368
As opposed to some retard on /m/ who's literally regurgitating shit about Zeta part 2 that was originally provided to english-speakers thanks to a user on MECHATALK six years ago.

>>13491357

> I mean I guess they took out the Titans, but that was a very small part of Char's plans

The dissolution of the Titans was the AEUG's primary purpose. Char's only other real goal, and Amuro and others shared it was moving people in to space. That entire goal just seems to disappear as a goal for everyone else after Zeta though, and Char makes no real effort on that front himself. He just disappears and comes back ready to fuck shit up.

> He very explicitly states in Zeta that he is not over Lalah

He also makes it very explicit he doesn't blame Amuro and that he can feel her spirit and finds that enough.

> and it makes sense that once everything goes to shit that he starts thinking about how things could have been different if she was around and start obsessing over her again.

I don't think it is. Once that fire is gone out it takes more than a bit of brooding to bring it back.

> He affirms that using cyber newtypes is necessary in Zeta, and uses them in CCA.

He's using A cyber newtype. Singular. Nanai never even mentions working on them in the film. All she does is work on the psycoframe and help administer for Char. That's hardly a logical extension of his discussion with Dr. Hasan. If Nanai was working on more, Char had more, the process wasn't working out due to some flaw or whatever - maybe. As is, I don't think so.

>>13491412

> He says that the earth is dying and humanity needs to get off asap so it can heal in Zeta, and he goes to extreme measures to acheive this goal in CCA after failing in Zeta.

He basically gives a single speech and then goes "well that didn't work, fuck it, time to kill those motherfuckers". That isn't really a natural evolution and doesn't convey any sense of frustration at lack of movement or anything because he puts no real effort in or experiences any real failure on that front. If he'd been trying diplomatic, political or economic means for several years and failing in Char's Counterattack it would be one thing. As is though, it's just "Well no one listened to my Dakar speech so let's kill those mother fuckers".

I just don't find it a natural evolution of him and find it especially hard to believe that the Char in Char's Counterattack who teases Amuro like a giggling schoolgirl (I'm being naughty Amuro) is capable of the kind of emotional stability he had around Amuro in Zeta. That needs more explanation than I think the film provides.

>>13491384

That user was Mark Simmons anon. It's also been independently verified by the anon who translated it buying the book in question. So yes, it has more merit than some random un-sourced blurb on MAHQ.

Also, even if it wasn't sourced, the Zeta part II stuff lacking a source doesn't actually make the MAHQ suddenly become one.

>>13491412
>He's using A cyber newtype. Singular. Nanai never even mentions working on them in the film
Because they're expensive.

>>13491423

> That user was Mark Simmons anon.

Sorry, I tell a lie there since I was getting it confused with one of the other bits of production info we have. The source for the ZZ stuff isn't from a Mechatalk post, it's from a Japanese website which quoted a specific Gundam bible and which was translated by someone and then verified by buying the book.

Your mention of Mechatalk threw me a loop since that was where the original plan for 0079 was first mentioned by Mark Simmons and I started thinking of that because of it.

>>13491412
It would be more surprising if the process WAS working out with no flaws. Glemy is much more stable than previous Cyber Newtypes, but if the process was reliable then you'd see more of them in the future. Instead the only other known Cyber Newtypes ever produced after that were Full Frontal, who was arguably only stable in that his whole personality was artificially constructed, and Iron Mask. I would find it hard to swallow that Char made exactly one Cyber Newtype and that it worked out great, compared to the idea that he made a bunch of failures along the way that just aren't given any focus because there's only so much time in the movie.

>>13491436

Funny how something being expensive didn't stop him buying himself an army, mobile suits, a massive mobile armor and even an asteroid.

>>13491449

Including the information that it wasn't working out would literally take one line somewhere. Maybe a minute or two of talking heads if you want to expand on it a bit.

>>13491423
Mark064 is not toysdream. They have been active concurrently, not to mention he even credits the translation to a friend when Mark Simmons is fluent in Japanese.

You even have Mark Simmons himself deny it on a different forum.

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Titans_Test_Team/index.php?showtopic=1065

It's just as empty of merit since in the first place mahq gets its content and info from its community forum members.

>>13491474

Read >>13491444.

>>13491451
Sweetwater probably thought having an army was more important than having (what they believe to be - one official even states his concerns about the enhancements) a small army of young cyber newtypes.

>>13491423

It isn't just Dakar though. The AEUG falls apart and the ZZ Federation are more corrupt than ever. Really the problem lies in ZZ, where we should have a sub-plot of Char trying to deal with the federation diplomatically some more and them doing something particularly despicable. This would lead in CCA much better, for sure.

> when Char was emotionally stable

LIke when he got the whole crew detained because he got mad at Haman and attacked her ?

Char was always hot headed.

>>13491412

I agree that we should have seen Char in ZZ working at it some more. Presumably he was doing something off screen, I'm not sure what it was would actually be all that interesting though. Probably just Char getting bored in meetings.

For the Lalah thing, why is it so hard to understand that people regress, sometimes dramatically so. Getting over something doesn't mean it won't come back and take you over again some time in the future. Char was doing better with dealing with Lalah in Zeta, and then he got worse because of his failure. Amuro killing Lalah is a pretty natural scapegoat to fall back on given what we know about Char.

Turns out Char was a dumb, wrong, hypocritical twat the whole time.
WHO KNEW!
anyone who got 3/4ths of the way through MSG and can be honest with themselves

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>>13491886
I wouldn't say he was dumb, wrong or hypocritical.

Just confused and seething with hate. His whole family taken from him, his father's vision in shambles.

And the further he went with his revenge on the Zabis, the more he lost sight of his goal of vengeance. He ends up only caring for his sister, and even in the end, that doesn't matter to him because he is just so consumed by the hatred that pushes him to wipe out the Zabis.

Aka, a man without a cause; a man who doesn't know what he's fighting for anymore.

>>13492053
I can't see how being that consumed by hate doesn't make him wrong.

>>13489888
This is Obi Wan levels of mental gymnastics.

>>13491057
>Also, just because you fight a war doesn't mean you need to instigate one. You could say Amuro couldn't live without war too.
There is literally a scene where Beltorchika says Char can't live without war but Amuro is different. Seeing as a lot of characters echo the same statement the view point is pretty accurate

>just because you fight a war
Can you not actually read? He can't live without a war, not that he fights but that he needs a war

>Also Quattro doesn't tell any explicit lies in Zeta
Holy shit people are bad at reading characters

>>13490930
This. This is the only clear point with Char.

>>13490623
Zeta is clearly far from his best work, you people just see him as a omnipotent being who does everything intentionally.

>>13489888
Memes aside, his intentions are obvious.
Char joined the Zeon army allied himself with the Zabi with the intention of kilæing them. He was never "loyal" to them to begin with.

>>13492515
>>13492515
Well, okay, yeah, he was wrong.

But he definitely wasn't dumb or hypocritical(at least not at first).

>>13490930
What's so funny about CCA and him leaking the Psycoframe to Amuro, is that it doesn't seem like he expected to get absolutely fucking bodied by Amuro in the resulting fight, despite Amuro holding his own even before reaching the same technological level as Char. Why exactly did he think that was a good idea?

>>13493172
>Why exactly did he think that was a good idea?

Respect

>>13489888
no char, you betrayed garma, he trusted you, he was your friend.
you betrayed haman, she sent you ahead to help axis, not to betray them
you betrayed aeug, you survived gryps and just go awol when they needed you most and then you end up running neo zeon and fight your former comrades that joined londo bell.

>>13493172
>Why exactly did he think that was a good idea?
>>13493522
This. Amuro is probably one of the few living humans that Char has any more than a modicum of respect for. That's why he didn't like seeing him moping around in Zeta instead of getting in the robot.

That's why he didn't want to be killed by anyone else

>>13493172

He could have overpowered Amuro in their initial fight, but he held back most of Sazabi's power. Gyunei even asks him why he's not using all his funnels to take him out.

Once they had even machines he went all out. He still lost but he thought he had a good chance of winning.

>>13493522
I guess it's that weird Japanese sense of honor thing but I still think it's really hokey. Char has a plan for the future of the entire human race yet he ends up feeding himself to Amuro out of sheer boneheadedness.

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>>13493596
>weird Japanese sense of honor
>Chivalry
>Japanese
Just shut the fuck up you disgusting weeb scum.

>>13493596
>Char has a plan for the future of the entire human race
No he doesn't. His plan is "Throw a rock at earth and hope it should all work out because newtypes"

>>13489888
>>13493536
Char betrayed Garma, but he's actually Casval, so technically he didn't betray anybody, he was just playing a role.

>>13492799
Zeta is quite possibly his best work, enough bullshit, you probably didn't watch it, or you're some madman who thinks Gainer or Powerd is better

>>13493608
I'm calling it that because Japan still fucking cares you twat, whereas everyone realized here that it's fucking stupid.

>>13490188
I just assumed that Char went crazy. He acted like he was insane in CCA

>>13493610
That's the plan. I didn't say it was a good plan.

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>>13493635
>I'm a dumb cunt and everyone is an asshole just like me!
edgelord, pls

>>13493620
that's just semantics. Garma trusted him and casaval betrayed that trust. hell he betrayed the original Char too. tricked him so he could die in his place and stole his identity.

>>13493668
If you are the one who's acting like Chivalry is still a thing, aren't you the fedora tipping edgelord here?

>>13489888
What it comes down to is, there are people who are capable of making themselves see whatever kind of truth they want to see. Char almost certainly believes, not just claims but believes, what he's saying is true.

"Garma didn't count because the Zabis betrayed me first, so this is just revenge."

"Haman doesn't count because she supports the Zabis and because this was the best way to stop the Titans."

"AEUG doesn't count because this is for the good of the whole human race, when they see what I've done they'll understand how important it was."

Char can stand in front of Haman and say that with a straight face because he's absolutely convinced that it's true. That's part of what makes him so dangerous. It's how he rose so high in Zeon to begin with, that and his piloting skills. He could hang out among the Zabis for years - years! - and never let slip even a hint of his thoughts about them until exactly the right moment. Char's capacity for mental gymnastics is often his greatest weapon.

>>13493629
Yuu was a new and improved Kamille

>>13489888
He doesn't consider the people he betrayed to be human. The Zabis, in his eyes, are all sub human filth.

>>13493681
Retroactively, sure, but originally Char Aznable was just an alias, not an actual person.

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>>13489888

He was just a fag

>>13489888
This is one of my favorite scenes from Char.

Basically, it means he never once affiliated with the Zabi's and their ideals. So when he killed them all, it wasn't a betrayal, it was just revenge.

>>13494326
I thought it was always someone he got killed.