STEFAN MOLYNEUX: THE ART OF THE ARGUMENT

>>9957338
>reading books written by youtubers

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>>9957351
NOT AN ARGUMENT

is the western civilisation really in danger, and what even does western civ mean?

>>9957338
>total word count: 3

[Spoiler]we all know what they are [/spoiler]

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The most important book of our lifetime

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>>9957338
When I went back to Stephan's first interviews on JRE, he seemed like an interesting and reasonable guy. His early "truth about" videos were interesting, if overly long. I eagerly rerecorded him to my friends. telling them they should give his videos a try.
Then like 2 day later he goes from libertarian to borderline far right.
>tfw my fiends all think I'm right wing now

>>9957486
>When I went back to Stephan's first interviews on JRE
Was that the one where he lied about his wife being reprimanded?

>>9957371
minimum donations of $2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CM_--di7L8

>>9957486
Dude was an anarchist before he saw all the /pol/ shekels.

>>9957486
*reccomended
JFC how did I even manage that

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>>9957463
Jesus this is beautiful

>>9957463
Is this real? It's almost like a 'the argument is love, the argument is life'

>>9957486
libertarian is far right

there's no such thing as a "left-libertarian"

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>>9957572
>gives all his content for free
>OMG WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT ASKING FOR DONATIONS FOR HIS ******************F R E E****************** CONTENT

you have no argument

>reading a book written by le no argument man

>>9957338
Molyneux is honestly not that bad. He's a good entry point if you want to get decent historical perspectives on controversial events and/or people.

As a philosopher (self-proclaimed), he's very mediocre and often downright terrible. He cherry picks his philosophical opponents and questions prior to his shows, typically picking the most easily refutable or even absurd positions and/or viewpoints and then spergs out.

Honestly, I can't watch him debate. He becomes such an insufferable asshat.

>Stefan: "Well can you explain what you mean further?"
>Guest: "Sure, what I'm saying is that--"
>Stefan: "H-H-HOLD ON I WASN'T DONE TALKING ARE YOU GONNA LET ME FINISH"
>Guest: "Well I was trying to answ--"
>Stefan: "SO YOU'RE NOT GONNA LET ME FINISH! I CAN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION IF YOU'RE GOING TO TALK OVER ME IT WON'T GO ANYWHERE"
>Guest: "Ok, I'm sorry go ah--"
>Stefan: "OK MIKE, CUT HIM OFF! WE'RE DONE HERE! YOU CAN'T REASON WITH NONSENSE!"

He's become increasingly worse at it too. His early interviews and/or 'debates' were a lot more civil. Now every time he has a 'debate' he immediately gets angry and defensive.

>>9957577
Yes, that in itself is a proper argument. Someone who truly "fears" the demise of the western civilization, would not bother with all that and try to make his book as accessible as possible, but considering he is a dishonest hack he is doing what he does best, begging for money.

i only read books written by the youtube community

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It's his magnum opus forsure

>>9957338
It's probably shit. I can't stand Molyneux. Something about him reeks of sociopath, possibly serial killer.

The whole "not an argument" thing was done by Macintyre in After Virtue.

>>9957463
THE MADMAN
he literally said fucking nothing

>>9957463
If this is made up, it is brilliant. If not, it is Not. An. Argument.

Don't mind me I generally like Molyneux all right but Christ what a gaudy, pretentious cover. As if this book will actually prevent such a scenario.

>>9957463
>That is not the argument
Really, Molyneaux?

>>9957338
>haha, it's le "not an argument" guy
>buy his book or you're a cuck! XD

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>>9957463
this has to be fake

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>>9957839
It's not.

https://www.amazon.com/Art-Argument-Western-Civilizations-Stand-ebook/dp/B0756QYZ26/

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>>9957463
No way.

>>9957556
you are a moron

>>9957556
t.politically illiterate

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whoa...... this really bobbled my dingles

>>9957338
I don't yet, poast the mobi

>>9957967
So it's for toddlers?

>>9957338
you can buy it ONE DOLLAR

>>9957973
Actually yes it is. His stated intent was to write a logic book for the unwashed masses. So he's trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator (or at least that's what he claims).

>>9958018
What about the fact that he has absolutely no training in logic?
In his master thesis (he admitted that he specifically bothered an assistant so that he would give him an A if he promised to not bother him anymore) he equates logic with semantic syllogisms, I mean, that's not even close to what people define as logic.

Seriously, why are we talking about this book?

>>9958018
What about the fact that he is part of the unwashed masses?

>>9958101
>Seriously, why are we talking about this book?
Because it's written by le not a argument man.

>>9958101
>I mean, that's not even close to what people define as logic.
Not gonna argue with you, but that's a seriously shitty sentence. We're on a literature board, apply yourself.

>>9957463
holy shit this is gold

>>9958238
This is what Molyneux define as logic. Get ready, and then tell me if I was wrong.

"1) Philosophy requires values
2) Values cannot exist without life
3) Therefore the highest value of philosophy must be the existence of life.
1) The highest value of philosophy is life
2) Life cannot exist without the body
3) Thus physical health is the highest value of life.
1) Physical health is the highest value of philosophy
2) Physical health requires the consistent identification of external physical substance
3) Therefore the highest value of philosophy is the consistent identification of external physical substance."

He is oblivious of what logic is at even the most basic level. I'm willing to speculate on the fact that he has in fact never actually studied a logic textbook, nor has he ever contemplated it enough to trascend the equivalence logic=common sense.

>>9958247
Yeah, I'm not reading that. Post ending in 6 decides what I read.
my point is your original sentence reads like it was written by a nervous thirteen year old girl. I could not give less of a shit about what you're trying to say when the form is all fucked to hell.

>>9958262
My post does not read like anything, I've just mentioned that he has no training in logic, and I've mentioned a writing of his in which he proves my point. Also, a little advice: stop thinking in stereotypes.

>>9957556

holy fuck lmao

are you retarded?

>>9958262
>Molyneux defender
>nitpicks style and ignores substance
I see you've learned about arguing from the master

>>9958265
Oh, you're ESL, gotcha. Carry on.
>>9958268
Again, not gonna argue the content here. I don't know anything about molymeme other than "le argument man" and I don't intend to read this book. I saw a poorly written sentence and called it out.

>>9957463
What the fuck

>>9957338
>The Art of the Argument
>or, how to avoid not making an argument

Protip: if you have to describe something as 'the art of' then it is not an art

>>9957338
Stop shilling your shitty book. We already have another thread in the catalog for it.

>>9957359
Yes, and it means the white people who created this civilization mud people are flooding in to enjoy the fruits of are under attack, mainly by jews. If whites don't reverse the demographic situation, we will become minorities in our own countries and have to fight our way out. This is a serious problem, but Moly is a blueballer so don't expect any real answers from him. Molyneux isn't bad actually, good for people who are new to the problems whites now face.

>>9958525
This thread was posted first though. Are you new here?

>>9958549
The white people who actually have talent don't feel attacked though.

>>9957359
>What does western civ mean

Western Civilization means a foundation that is equal parts Greco-Roman and Christian, upon which Europeans and European-descended colonials have built for the past 2,000 years. Many elements, including much that is only cosmetic, of Western Civilization were spread to non-westerners through colonialism, or appropriated and built on independently into a distinct branch by such as the Japanese.

Skyscrapers, buttoned trousers, automobiles, airplanes, assault rifles, printed books, regard for individualism and fairness, capitalism, communism, classical music, the western Canon of philosophy and epic poetry, comic books, film, modern medicine, etc. etc.

You personally live either within Western Civilization, or quavering beneath its shadow, taking advantage of its achievements every single day, and still ask the question.

>Is it really in danger

I'm sure the 12th century Byzantine and 4th century Roman asked the same. The difference is that globalism has created the threat of a much more apocalyptic and total destruction, by enabling the migration over distances which were unimaginable some centuries ago of barbarian hordes which have proven themselves genetically incapable of resuscitating what they destroy.

>>9958562
That's not true, plenty of them do. But even if they can't see beyond their own short-term interests, it's still their children and their own that will feel it the most. We're still at the beginning of this.

>>9958579
If you suggest Western philosophy can't withstand a migration of people who don't or can't understand it, you're saying it should give up its claims to truth. Either that, or you agree with Derrida that the philosophical ideal is contingent on historical (and cultural) context thereby canonicalising the Jew as a Western philosopher.

>>9958582
It's like some sort of reverse colonialism. Funny.

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>>9957463

>>9958602
Why is that funny?

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>>9957463
Holy... I want more

>>9957463

Replace the word Argument with Spectacle and you leftists would love it.

>>9959339
kek. Other leftists make me ashamed to be one.

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>>9957463
the cringe

>>9959351

Don't get me wrong I'd consider myself on the left as well and I think Molyneux is retarded, but posting one paragraph out of context and saying "haha look how dumb this is" is a specious argument especially when we wouldn't bat an eyelid if it was referring to Spectacle or Capital or Ideology or some shit

>>9959377
it's not out of context you idiot. it's the first sentence. it's creating the context. it's not about left or right. the guy is a fucking comedian.

>>9959339
i do love it

>>9959377
yeah if you just change the word "argument" to "dialectic" (which means basically the same thing) then it magically becomes good

>>9957338
This might be the most sensationalist cover for a book I've ever seen.

>>9957463
Mein Gott!

>>9957463
This sounds even sillier if you pronounce the word "argument" in his weird accent

You guys do realise that this faggot is a (((jew))), right?

>>9959978
Because dialectic exists and can be used for things, for all the flaws of that approach, while "The Argument" is just some bullshit he made up for clickbait

>>9960070
lol

>>9958267
Are left-libertarians retarded? I think yes

>>9960026
>a (((jew)))
The echoes around "jew" cancels it out and means non-jew fyi.

How jew is Molyneux btw? Isn't he 1/8 or something?

>>9958602
the inhabitants of colonized countries did not become ethnic minorities within their own homelands. say what you will, but its a fact that if the trend continues as it likely will, Europe(Western Europe at least, maybe East EU, who knows what the future holds) will not be majority European. At the end of the day those 'colonized countries' get to live in a spiritually, ethnically, and culturally intact society, not the spiritual hellscape that is America and much of the EU.

>>9957338
His disciples are ordered to buy multiple copies to put the book on the bestseller list like L Ron Hubbard does.

>>9960172
He has a Roux de Poux name which inflates the Jude quotient.

>>9957338
I'm waiting for the sequel "How to de-feux from your Family in 3 Steps"

>>9957356
op wasn't asking for an argument

>>9958247
>3) Thus physical health is the highest value of life.
So why is Molymeme fat?

>>9960359
Cause he is a libertarian. Or was. Either way the weight gained may never be lost.

>>9960205
Except the Americas, Australia, New Zealand?

>>9957742
>>9957463
Its shit, but he didn't literally say nothing. He's oviously just refeering to how the state which is inherently evil does not use arguments to enforce their power, but instead use force, where as what we view as good parts of life are the parts that rely on argumentation

>>9957873
yo can you upload the ebook?

>>9958267
>>9957965
>>9957943
No argument to be seen

>>9957338
Whats with this front cover? It has nothing to do with the title or premise of the book.

>>9961310
You can argue your way out of anything, even streets burning and the Statue of Liberty underwater.

>reading a book by a professional youtuber

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>>9957556
really dinks me dink

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>>9957555
HellooOOoo!!

Somebody give me a quick rundown on this guy

>>9961639
Went insane arguing with idiots, while believing he was becoming less of one. Very inflated ego.
Occasionally right and interesting to see, but not so much on a personal level. He's essentially Hitler. This is his art.

>>9961639
>huge ego
>thinks he is right about everything
>claims to be an anarcho-capitalist
>a sophist who begs for patreon money
>disconnects people who disagree with him
>puts out a book called Art Of the Argument, never seriously argues with anyone because people who are deep thinkers destroy him
>deflects, goes on tangents
>his videos demonstrate poor understanding of philosophers
>brainlets and people who do not have real confidence in their opinions love him because his arrogance and wonky arguments at a first glance seem somewhat plausible

>>9961753
>claims to be an anarcho-capitalist
?

>>9961639
>MIKE CUT HIM OFF MIKE MIKE DISCONNECT HIM

>>9957556
If I'm not mistaken there is a spectrum between left-libertarian and right-libertarian which essentially boils down to social ownership vs private ownership. Obviously each side will (rightly) accuse the other of being authoritarian. That's why right-anarchists say that taxation is theft and left-anarchists say that property is theft.
There is such a thing as left-libertarian, libertarian socialist, anarcho-communist etc. Also I agree that libertarianism is far-right.

>>9957338
epub where???

>>9959339
>>9959351
>>9959970

How sore would Molyneaux be if I did this and sold it on amazon?

>>9961818
It was clearly implied that liberty means legal physical independence (which is property or private property). This would culminate in laissez faire and the various doctrines which vaguely follow this with whatever exceptions are libertarian.
The problem is that the word "liberty" has acquired a good connotation so various forms of ideologies that are antithetical to property got to get their own definition of freedom/liberty to meet their ideology. This contrasts to old socialists or some old authoritarian regimes promoters that had no qualm saying they were against freedom. Now instead you have
>b-but property isn't REAL freedums
>physical independence on an individual basis isn't TRUE liberty
In a world of autism, I'd abandon the words if only as a concession. But in the real world you want to keep those fresh positive connotations against malevolent influences blurring the language.
It's largely similar to "anarchy" being left or right. With the difference that unlike liberty, the word has a negative connotation so outside of memesters and purists people avoid defining themselves as anarchists.

>somehow /lit/ thinks rational discourse isn't worth defending because Molyneux said so

You guys are really a bunch of tools, I hope you all realize you memed yourself into dumbass contrarianism against anything a vlogger or popular voice says.

>>9957463
wow... that's so deep man...

>>9957556
Mohatma Gandhi.jpg

>>9961823
Noam chomsky essentially made that same argument for free will once

>>9961639
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0avKkx76-Nc

>>9957463
Made me laugh enough for me to fart. Luckily I'm home.

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>this deductive argument is invalid because I don't like the premise

>>9962248
>>The logic is sound but the argument is wrong because my lizard brain screams to me about the cultural marxists' plot.

>>9958262
all of the orwell's essays

>>9961639
Also should mention that this fucking asshole goes out of his way to make videos berating people for donating small amounts like a dollar because he 'deserves more' when he already has millions sitting in his bitcoin account and who knows how much in other places. His ego is through the roof and he genuinely thinks he's doing a service to humanity.

>>9962248
He's doing the first week of my logic course and he can't even do it properly.

molyneux is the most pathetic of all pseudo intellectuals on youtube desu

>>9958579
>globalism
lulz

>>9957636
This is exactly how I feel about him, and that's coming from someone who agrees with him most of the time.

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>>9962248
oh my god.....

No ePub/mobi/PDF up yet?

This looks like the funniest thing to hit philosophy since The Moral Landscape.

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>>9957463
>THE ARGUMENT IS LOVE THE ARGUMENT IS LIFE
Internet took its toll on Stef.

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if u guys are so smart, how come u never made an ethical map of ur family? hmmm

>>9962484
So this is like the Black Swan, which purports to be about probability but is instead about Taleb's life, only with logic instead of probability, and Molyneux instead of Taleb?

>>9962484
Come on anon, don't hold out on us like this! Upload the book somewhere!

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>>9962507
that was actually an excerpt from one of the """books"""" you can read for free on his website
http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/feed/books/OnTruth/On_Truth_The_Tyranny_of_Illusion_by_Stefan_Molyneux_PDF.pdf
>>9962504
it's more like "my twisted world" except he believes that everyone's childhood was as shitty as his and we just ain't woke enough to see it

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>>9962539
Jesus Christ.

I just skimmed the lot. 70+ pages of "So, tell me about your mother."

Guy doesn't need a YouTube channel- he needs a fucking therapist.

>>9957463
I know some stephags will say "not an argument", but this is one of those rare examples of a position that can be dismissed purely on account of its autism

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>>9962325
>>9962248
>>9962421
>>9962432
>because I don't like the premise
Or maybe because it's empirically false.
I mean, you need a really good reason to entertain an argument with obviously empirically false axioms. Not sure what's controversial about this. So many bad debaters dance around in the clouds and get nowhere because they don't get down to fundamental presuppositions.

>>9962484
Holy shit, I never knew that the argument guy had so many psychological problems.

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>>9962676
>muh empiricism
heh, pleb.. try this on for size

>>9962684
Oh that's right, I forgot you can know everything there is to know about plumbers even if you're a brain in a jar without senses.

>>9962705
I played Super Mario, I know all there is to know about plumbers!

>>9957967
it's like he chose to write 100 words for every 3 that would suffice

>>9962356
kek

>>9962676
He's supposedly trying to explain basic logic to a lay audience, the point of those kinds of examples is that the empirical truth of the axioms, if there is even one that they are referring to in the first place, is irrelevant to the validity of the logic itself. Don't make excuses for this garbage.

>>9962705
literally read the critique of pure reason and study it for two decades and then you will realize that you are incorrect

>>9961782
He was for years. He has a long storied history before he started pandering to /pol/.

>>9962248
So the book is supposed to teach you to debate with retarded Tumblr strawmen?

>>9958594
at large enough scale and long enough time you can undo civilization from within, see Rome, see Europe.

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i can only imagine how hard it must be being the smartest person on the planet all the time

>>9962484
>he had a shitty childhood
This explains a lot of things

>>9962248
THE TWO ARGUMENTS DO NOT HAVE THE SAME FORMAT.

>1. All A are B.
>2. X is B.
>3. Therefore X is A.

vs.

>1. All A are B (he doesn't say "all" but if we don't assume "all" is implied, then this is a second difference between the two argument formats).
>2. X is A.
>3. Therefore X is B.

The first one is "all lizards are reptiles and Bob is a reptile therefore Bob is a lizard," which does not follow, and the second is "all lizards are reptiles and Bob is a lizard therefore Bob is a reptile," which DOES.

If you reject premise 1 in the second argument, as Molyneux no doubt does, then there's no reason to try to say the argument is valid; it's just based on false premises.

>>9962073
The word "libertarian" was used by socialists before it was used by capitalists.

>>9962073
Joseph Déjacque, a French anarcho-communist, was the first person to use the term "libertarian" in a political sense (as opposed to belief in free will rather than determinism). He was referring to his own ideas, and possibly those of Proudhon, a mutualist.

>>9964282
Fucking thank you. I've been waiting for someone to post this.

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>>9957463
wtf, I hate stefan now

What happens if someone sends Molyneux a copy of The Unique One and Its Property (preferably with footnotes so he can understand how it's a response to Hegel, Marx, and Feuerbach)?

>Already controversial for counselling his followers to shun their parents, a Toronto-area podcaster is facing allegations he listened in on his therapist wife as she met with distraught patients.

>...

>The College of Psychologists of Ontario found Ms. Papadopoulos guilty of professional misconduct in November, 2012, faulting her for adopting Mr. Molyneux's views and using the Internet to counsel people to sever ties with their families.

>A civil court complaint filed on Oct. 24 in California says Mr. Molyneux boasted in a 2006 podcast that he would listen while his wife talked with her patients, even interjecting and suggesting they sign up with his website.

>...

>Catherine Yarrow, executive director of the College of Psychologists, said she could not specifically comment on the latest allegations against Ms. Papadopoulos. However, she said both the college's regulations and Ontario laws make it illegal to disclose personal information without a client's consent.

>While not a household name, Mr. Molyneux is a controversial figure whose views have earned him both supporters and detractors. Several parents have told The Globe and Mail that their children became estranged from their families after listening to him.

>...

>Her lawsuit said one of her video criticisms quoted from a Molyneux podcast in which he said "that he listens in on his wife's confidential sessions with her patients in her home office and interferes with the therapy sessions to suggest the patients join and donate to Freedomain Radio."

>The comments are not in the version of podcast 291 now on Mr. Molyneux's YouTube channel, but are in a longer version Ms. Raven provided after a request from The Globe and Mail.

>In the version provided by Ms. Raven, Mr. Molyneux states that it is June 21, 2006. He then speaks about listening in as his wife meets with "messed up and sobbing" clients at her home office.

>"I'm in the vent system, listening, and I'm – she calls it heckling, but I don't really call it heckling, I just call it providing suggestions about how things should go and that the people should donate to Freedomain Radio," he says in the podcast.

>"I mean, it takes them a while to figure what on Earth that is, but I do, sort of, try to put my two cents in and Christina says that sometimes can be distracting and so on. But even with the combined weight of her, directly in front of them, and me, my ghostly voice floating in through the vents, they still have trouble making the kind of personal changes that really have a positive effect on their lives."

>>9964401
So who won the lawsuit.

>>9964434
I can't find any updates. I imagine either it's ongoing or there was some kind of settlement.

>>9957712
This

>>9963128
Is the migration of people a threat from within or without?

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>>9964401
>>9964434

Clinical Director

Ms Christina Papadopoulos is a registered member of the College of Psychologist of Ontario, with over 20 years of clinical experience. She holds an honours undergraduate degree in psychology from McMaster University, and completed her graduate studies at the University of Toronto, Institute of Child Study, in psychological assessment and counselling. She has extensive training and experience treating children, adolescence, adults, and families with a wide variety of psychological and emotional problems. She strives to help people overcome life's challenges and lead productive and happy lives. She practiced for over 10 years in a number of Ontario hospitals and nine years ago she founded Meadowvale Psychological Services where she continues to provide comprehensive and compassionate treatment to those seeking help.


Stefan and his wife are fucking nuts

Should I phone meadowvale tomorrow and see if I can get an appointment for therapy? Could be a lot of fun lol

"Isabella Molyneux or as she likes to be called “Jenna Hero”, is the daughter of Christina and Stefan Molyneux. She is the first child to have ever been peacefully parented. Isabella is more than just Stefan’s daughter, she is a project that he hopes will be the final proof that child abuse is the root of all human corruption."

he is literally insane.

>>9957463
this is retard level

>>9964527
> She is the first child to have ever been peacefully parented.
He's a literal cult leader.

>>9964192
Who the fuck thinks like this about their family? What the flying fuck, this guy is a nutcase.

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>>9957463
he became the meme

>>9964527
I 100% agree with him

Hitler was molested

>>9957338

is this a meme or is this book a real thing?

>>9962248
what the fuck

>>9964593
defoo.org

I don't understand how he can be let to raise a child, or his wife is allowed to continue as a therapist as she is under his command and deFOO'd at his direction soon after they were married.

>>9964401
>Already controversial for counselling his followers to shun their parents

Why is this so controversial? Some people absolutely should cut off contact with their parents. He can counsel people to do whatever, it's up to them to make the decision. As far as I know he's not forcing or tricking people to cut off contact which would be an entirely different matter.

>>9964616
Because we don't let the government take your kids just because you're a weirdo.

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>>9961639

>2+ years ago
>le happy anarcho capitalist
>what's up guys my names Stefan Molyneux coming at you live here today
>let's talk about how the state is inherently violent and why I should be able to fuck toddlers because muh NAP
>fiat currency is stalinism
>if you dont defoo everyone you love you are complicit with slavery and statism
>muh liberty

>fast forward a few years

>IF TRUMP DOESN'T WIN WESTERN CIVILIZATION COLLAPSES
>BLACK PEOPLE ARE SO DUMB LOL
>CUT HIM OFF MIKE, CUT HIS ASS OFF
>IF KAEPERNICK TAKES A KNEE ONE MORE TIME WESTERN CIVILIZATION WILL COLLAPSE
>I DON'T CARE IF MY ONLY SOURCE IS A RIGHT-WING THINK TANK, THESE ARE FACTS
>I TOOK A HISTORY OF PHILOSOPHY COURSE IN THE '80S, I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT HERE
>THE WEST WILL COLLAPSE BECAUSE WOMEN ARE WEARING TOO MUCH MAKEUP
>THE WESTERN WORLD IS LITERALLY ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE BECAUSE STARBUCKS STOPPED PUTTING CHRISTMAS DECORATIONS ON THEIR CUPS
>CUT HIM OFF MIKE

Needless to say it has been an utterly fascinating transition. There is still the occasionally austerely academic video that's actually well sourced and worthwhile, especially if you haven't been exposed to non-mainstream right thought, but for the most part he's just kind of a bloviating dogmatist at this point.

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>>9964657
>>IF TRUMP DOESN'T WIN WESTERN CIVILIZATION COLLAPSES
wtf I love molymeme now

>>9964657
I'd love to see him debate one of those leftyboogeymen of his, like Chomsky or Zizek. Then await for his inevitable suicide. Like that fat brit fuck that debated some nobody college proffesor and got utterly trashed.

>>9964669

I wouldn't hold Chomsky or Zizek up as paragons of intellectual fierceness either, though Chomsky is brilliant in his field. In his field being the key there.

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>>9964192
>that first line of dialogue
What the fuck.

>>9964669
>Chomsky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45vGBs58TDw

>>9957486
>to borderline far right
How so? I don't think he's far right.

>>9964683
Yes. But they would leave argumentman in a puddle of his own tears and piss.

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>>9964701
it almost reads like "shit that never happened," right?
1/3

>>9961669
>He's essentially Hitler
How?

funny how stefan was abused so badly, yet still trusts his own thoughts and ignores how much he was influenced by his abuse. Seems like the kind of guy that will eventually died of a drug over dose during a mental breakdown, although he's built up such a huge wall of bullshit a breakdown might not even be possible.

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>>9964729
2/3

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>>9964734
3/3

>>9964733
This poster is a moron.

>>9964729
>>9964734
>your teacher telling you not to be an ignorant faggot and pay attention is literally child abuse
Christ.

>>9957463

imagine being retarded enough to be an alt-right extremist

now imagine being twice as retarded to consider buying this book

now imagine being four times as retarded to actually go through with it

now you have arrived at the average molyneux fan

>>9964761
can you not use the word retarded?

>>9964772
He's able to do all sorts of things, anon, but why should he?

>>9964772

excuse me, I meant to say feeble-minded pinhead

>>9964779
Too avoid sounding like an alt-right extremist.

What's this about him being a cult leader in regards to family relationships? Is it a meme? Only thing I've heard from him is that one should distance oneself from their family if said relationship is toxic and detrimental, but that doesn't seem wrong.

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>>9964669
Will Self would be a great addition

>>9964787
Lots of people use the word retarded, not just white nationalists, man.

>>9964729
>>9964734
>>9964736
they should ban brainlets from this board

>>9964792
alt-right ≠ white nationalists

>>9964789
He ttells his followers to abandon their families for him and that he is the greatest father and the only one in the world to have successfully "de-fooed" himself and his family. That's cult tier.

then again. isn't a person who likes molyneux actually retarded?

>>9964809
Or deranged. Probably both.

>>9964805

lol good one anon!

>>9964789
>Only thing I've heard from him is that one should distance oneself from their family if said relationship is toxic and detrimental, but that doesn't seem wrong.

first, he counts things like having different political beliefs, not supporting freedomain radio, and generally not agreeing with him (molyneux) as toxic and detrimental.

second, he doesn't think that you should cut contact only in 'toxic and detrimental' relationships. he thinks that all relationships are voluntary and that you should cut ties any time you like, including if you're just unhappy or think things could be improved or whatever.

his general view on families is this: "Deep down I do not believe that there are any really good parents out there - the same way that I do not believe there were any really good doctors in the 10th century."

so really he thinks pretty much everyone should abandon their families and join his freedomain radio group instead.

it can sound harmless but there are definitely cult-like elements

>>9964821
This does not sound harmless at all and is the very definition of a cult.

In which St. Molyneux posits that to do what is good, one must simply pretend to be Satan on Opposite Day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg6mohJ8SCA

>>9964836

the greentext bit is the harmless sounding part but, yeah, unpacked it is obviously not so harmless

>>9964821
just think of how many people he's hurt :.(

>>9964864
You mean Redpilled™

>>9962248
The top argument is formally invalid, regardless of the truth or falsity of the premises. So I'm not sure why he's pointing that out.

I've never seen anyone make the second argument.

>>9964908

the whole thing is extremely sloppy. if premise 1 of the second argument is meant to be universally quantified (e.g. "All kind people are socialists"), thus matching premise 1 of the first argument, then the argument is valid and molyneux is completely wrong that it has the same structure as the first. it might still be unsound, but he seems to be saying more than that.

if instead the first premise is a generic, then the argument isn't valid but for reasons that are entirely different from those that apply to the first.

so either way, the comparison makes no sense and it's clear that molyneux doesn't understand even the basics of logic and semantics (e.g. the difference between a universally quantified statement and a generic)

>>9962963
Yes but what do you mean by "claims"? He is an anarcho-capitalist.

>>9964805
The term was poorly defined initially so I don't hold it against people who were right wing populists and used the word, but now it means white nationalists.

>>9964938

why does he support a statist like trump then?

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>>9964734

>valuable life lesson
>abuse
>tfw you agree with the teacher

d e f o o
e
f
o
o

>>9964948
Because anarcho-capitalism is complete nonsense that collapses to fascism in practice.

>>9964933
I think it's a serious empirical question (of English semantics) whether you can do universal instantiation on generics. Most likely the 'real' semantics of generic statements are too complex for Aristotelian syllogisms like these to handle.

But yeah, I agree, it's all over the place and he should have made them correspond.

>>9964948
Do I really need to explain that? Libertarians voted for Trump because they saw him as an enemy of globalism, liberalism, socialism etc. They wanted the POTUS to be a non-politician outsider.
That aside, why wouldn't an anarcho-capitalist vote against Clinton? That's completely consistent with anarcho-capitalist ideals.
Voting doesn't mean you support what the government is doing.

>>9964954
>in practice
?

>>9964282
>>9964347
rejecting a premise has nothing to do with a valid argument in deductive reasoning you. back to logic 101

>>9962248
>famously, mario the plumber cannot swim, so this argument is invalid

>>9965001
I misspoke at the end of my post. I was trying to say, there is no reason for Molyneux to need to show the argument is invalid (which it isn't) in order to say that the conclusion is false, because he believes the first premise is false to begin with.

That is, he's made up this (wrong) argument about the logic not following, in which he confuses "all A are B" and "all B are A," for no apparent reason.

>>9965013
What? He can swim in Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy, and Super Mario Galaxy 2, all just off the top of my head.

>>9964996
>That aside, why wouldn't an anarcho-capitalist vote against Clinton? That's completely consistent with anarcho-capitalist ideals.

a consistent anarcho-capitalist would not support clinton or trump, since neither are anarchists

>Voting doesn't mean you support what the government is doing.

it helps put in power people who are not anarchists and so doesn't make much sense for someone trying to support anarchism

i understand the 'lesser of two evils' argument, but molyneux is infamous in ancap circles for being absolutely adamant that one should never compromise one's moral principles, regardless of the consequences. so it's a bit inconsistent for him to so strongly support trump's candidacy, regardless of how bad clinton was

>>9964996
>?
As in, anarcho-capitalists immediately curl up with fascists.

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>>9964996

>Libertarians voted for Trump because they saw him as an enemy of globalism, liberalism, socialism etc.

Libertarians, at least ideologically consistent ones, have no problem with liberalism - unless they're anarcho-libertarians - and they certainly don't have a problem with globalism (on the contrary, globalism is a virtue of the free market, or that's what a libertarian should say). Socialism sure.

IIRC libertarians in America have voted right since the 1930s because Republicans have, generally speaking, ran on small-government platforms. Don't ask for a citation on that, heard it on a podcast.

>>9965026
>a consistent anarcho-capitalist would not support clinton or trump, since neither are anarchists
A consistent anarcho-capitalist would vote for the candidate which would most reduce government evil. People overthink this so much.
There were only two choices. Trump or Clinton. Under democracy you are forced to choose between the two. Who should an anarcho-capitalist vote for?

>>9965037
>A consistent anarcho-capitalist would vote for the candidate which would most reduce government evil.

this is a lesser-of-two-evils argument and so represents a compromise of moral principle

>Under democracy you are forced to choose between the two.

you are not forced to vote for either of the establishment candidates (in fact, you are not forced to vote at all)

>Who should an anarcho-capitalist vote for?

any genuine anarcho-capitalist candidates or no one

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>>9957463
memes

>>9965042
>any genuine anarcho-capitalist candidates
The President does not have the power to disband the government, so voting for an ancap would still lend legitimacy to the system and not actually bring about stateless capitalism.

Also, I'd argue that anarchists of any stripe shouldn't vote.

>>9965048
>Also, I'd argue that anarchists of any stripe shouldn't vote.

yeah that's plausible. the disjunct "or no one" was there for a reason after all

Oh my.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnYnywmPRV4

>>9964761
Molyneux is not alt right.

>>9965055

>see alex jones link
>well maybe he's not always so ham-fisted and hyperbolic
>immediately starts talking about clandestine machinations to assassinate Trump from within and elites "plunging" the economy

how does this guy have so many viewers

I mean it can be entertaining for brief periods of time but it's always so over the top that suspending my disbelief cannot last

>>9965042
>this is a lesser-of-two-evils argument and so represents a compromise of moral principle
How is the less-of-two-evils argument invalid? There are literally two evils that you have been given the choice to choose from. Logically, since the two candidates are two different people, one must be less evil than the other.
>you are not forced to vote for either of the establishment candidates (in fact, you are not forced to vote at all)
You're not forced to vote (in my country you are) but, according to anarcho-capitalism, democracy is established by force. And in the current democratic process there are 2 choices. You have 2 choices. A candidate will be elected no matter what. You simply cannot get around that fact.
Regarding moral principle, there is no compromise. This is the situation: the government has violently acquired the anarcho-capitalist's private property rights and can at any time decide how they can use them. The anarcho-capitalist has no way to peacefully change this situation. Imagine then the government offered the anarcho-capitalist an opportunity to increase the chances of the government being limited. Would it be morally wrong if the anarcho-capitalist chose to do so?

>>9965064
That's the point. Alex Jones is a disinformation agent dispelling half truth and half fiction and never talking about the JQ.

>>9960205
>the spiritual hellscape that is America
At the end of the day I benefit from roads that aren't crumbling, 24/7 electricity and running water, trained emergency personnel on call within 20 minutes, public officials and bankers that don't routinely demand bribes, and a reasonably unpolluted environment. The city where I live hasn't seen warfare since the late 1600s, my employer routinely has the liquid cash on hand to pay me every two weeks, and I can safely walk through most of my city in the daytime (coyotes and bears make the night unsafe)

I really could go on and on. I give zero fucks about being spiritually bereft and most westerners feel the same way

>>9965060
He is not all right either.

>>9960205
>SPIRITUAL HELLSCAPE

Neck yourself

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>>9960205

>yfw you realize colonization was a virtuous and paternalistic endeavor and if you were in a shitty brown country your best hope at raising your standards of living was to pray that a white man washed up on your shores and created an economy from your soil

im not saying europeans didnt rape and brutalize some people im just saying i would rather get raped by a few folk and increase every other metric of success in my country than languish in mediocrity with other brown mouthbreathers for whom the pinnacle of civilizational success is creating sharper stones

>>9965186
Most colonies existed solely for resource extraction and operations tended to treat the natives as virtual slaves. Infrastructure outside of the seat of colonial government was built solely for resource extraction as well: railroads went straight from mine to port, military and police garrisons were placed to protect assets instead to population, natives were kicked out of the way for public works projects. And so on and so forth.

The few natives that benefited from colonialism were local administrators that served the same function as collaborators. The elite of a specific ethnic or religious group was given treasure and a degree of local autonomy in return for executing colonial rule. The vast majority of natives saw no benefit from colonialism and would suffer if the colonial power decided to crush any kind of disturbance with widespread massacres

>>9965116
Nah, he's all right. Gets a base message out to semi-intelligent normies.

>>9965213

>most

well there you go guy

In the game of civilization the white man dominated so hard they're now voluntarily offing themselves

it's at least fun to watch

>>9965213
Colonies only really grew into functioning, liberal societies when they were preceded by a settler culture. Agriculture would be dominated by small farmers, resource extraction companies were colony based and served many markets instead of just their colonial masters, and a local elite emerged that viewed itself as separate from the motherland.

>>9965228
>well there you go guy
I don't even know what point you're trying to make. How have I been owned by my own logic? I'm just saying that if colonies are run as warehouses to loot and pillage rather than polities to settle and build, you wind up with basket cases with weak institutions and a tendency toward authoritarian strong men

>>9965240

Why are the weak institutions a product of colonialism and not a product of a low IQ people among whom there is little to no trust?

Westerners have offered these people a paternalistic lesson, whether it be how to run institutions or general technological lessons, regardless of their brutality. It is interesting to me that when a people are brutalized and can't recover it is always the white man's fault.

But when Ching, Ping, Rosenberg, and Bromstein recover from brutalization it's not because of their IQs and a predisposition towards certain behaviors, it's just magic? Why are leftists so inconsistent on this issue.

>>9965256
IQ scores are a shitty way of measuring success. Recent UK studies in 2013 show that if you invest in basic education school grades improve regardless of race. In some cases teenagers of African heritage outperformed natives white Britons

But you can't have that when the country is rife with corruption because property rights are non-existent, government action is arbitrary and populist, and exiting infrastructure meets the needs of an economy that existed a century ago

Also, why are you conflating colonial governments with "the white man"? The same imperial armies and corporations that ravaged Africa and India routinely shat all over working class whites as well.

>>9965305
I mean to say that when a colonial power leaves a colony in that state, the government isn't going to be in a state to enforce rule of law, collect taxes and pay for a proper school system.

Fifty to sixty years of cold war meddling through the funding of communist/anti-communist rebels and dictators didn't help obviously.

>>9965256
>But when Ching, Ping,
I also find it hilarious that you think that the Chinese have in any way recovered from Mao's rule. Most of the country is still dirt poor by any standard.
>Korea?
Land reform redistributed land to small farmers. US propped up the government. Constant threat of invasion kept the country unified and tolerant of the local dictatorship.
>Israel
Most of the country was settled by small kibbutzim and other landholders. Religious unity and constant attack from all sides and within has meant that Israelis of any ethnic origin (the country has many Ethiopian Jews) are accepted into the polity and given the resources and opportunities to succeed.
>

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>>9965305

>IQ scores are a shitty way of measuring success. Recent UK studies in 2013 show that if you invest in basic education school grades improve regardless of race. In some cases teenagers of African heritage outperformed natives white Britons

The grades may improve, but the gap stays the same. And of course certain ethnic groups will do better, those are the few that made it out. A "brain drain" is a well-established concept for a reason.

IQ tests are literally the best metric man has ever discovered for measuring human capability, with exception to conscientiousness, which is still not even close. It's by far the most replicable product to ever come out of the social sciences, so if you want to write it off by calling it a bad metric then you might as well throw out just about everything else the social sciences have endeavored.

You keep naming all these problems, these symptoms, as to why low IQ populations are in a state of perpetual failure. But they are not failing because these symptoms, they are failing because they fail to meet a requisite IQ. All the things you mention: corruption, lack of rights, populism, etc. ad nauseam are only exacerbated in low IQ populations.

From your egalitarian POV there a few options left: Brown people have either faced uniquely harsh conditions or they have an unequal ability to build successful societies. There is no other way about it, and I hardly doubt you can argue that some people felt suffering and harshness less than others - unless you feel like venturing into the absurd.

>>9964669
He did have a video with Chomsky, he nodded along while Chomsky destroyed half his worldview and tried to focus on the things they agreed on, for different reasons.

>>9964702
Lol

>>9965088
It's molymeme himself who said never compromise on your principles, so to him, yes, it would be wrong, though obviously he's a hypocrite

>>9962120
>making up arguments that nobody has said
Sad!

>>9965412
Isn't this argument moot anyway because he's Canadian? I guess he can support trump on certain things and disagree with him on others, though I'm sure he won't because he's rolling in /pol/ dosh now.

>>9962539
>anarchocapitalist imblying consummation at nine is bad

>>9965423
He's still recommending things though, and to the brainless /pol/tards that are actually in America he's giving them hypocritical recommendation

>>9957636
>He's a good entry point if you want to get decent historical perspectives on controversial events and/or people.
no, he's a hack who turns everything into his pet peeves - the fight against statism, immigrants, nonwhites, women, slapping children, <insert issue>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd_nVCWPgiA

>>9958549
Members of a social category doing a thing doesn't mean that all members of that social category are responsible for that thing.

You've done nothing in your life to impact humanity in a way that will be felt beyond your direct peers, what on earth gives you the right to the bask in the achievements of people who are considered great?

>>9965412
I think I explained very clearly how he hasn't compromised his principles.

>>9965511
I believe he's referring to molymeme's own words while you're referring to anarchocapitalism in general
it doesn't matter whether it's logical to support this or that, if he said "lesser evilism is evil" then he's a hypocrite

>>9965682
This entire conversation is about whether or not he's actually an anarcho-capitalist >>9961753
And he is. Voting doesn't mean you want democracy.

>>9958247
Philosophers confirmed for being reptilians. Plato was just wanking over his superior species, probably had a 3d fetish but had to suck it up since it will never be real.

>>9965111
how long do you think that material comfort will last with an ever shrinking white minority? those things didn't just pop into existence. they are the result of a relatively homogenous, high-trust society that developed culture and institutions that allowed those things to exist. do you really think civil society will somehow not be transformed as demographics are?

you post like an utterly braindead zilch with no concept of the future.

>>9966295
In the future I will be dead.

So apparently he has a daughter: http://defoo.org/isabella-molyneux/

>Isabella Molyneux or as she likes to be called “Jenna Hero”, is the daughter of Christina and Stefan Molyneux. She is the first child to have ever been peacefully parented. Isabella is more than just Stefan’s daughter, she is a project that he hopes will be the final proof that child abuse is the root of all human corruption.

>>9966433
She'll be fucking packs of niggers by the she's 15

>>9965333
How does low IQ make the police corrupt? How does low IQ make there be no factories and only raw resource extraction? Does one need an IQ of 130 to make automobile parts?

There has been a pattern in nations where poor nations stay relatively poor and rich ones stay rich; the only exceptions over the 1928-1970 period were the Soviet Union, Japan, and Chile (which went from the rich cluster to the poor one). Three countries in the entire world. Today, when you exclude China and don't play funny games with the numbers, the people living in extreme poverty is increasing rather than decreasing.

These countries were kept poor and used like big straws to suck out as much resources as possible from the native environ with zero thought going into actual development. When the Democratic Republic of the Congo achieved independence, it had zero educational institutions.

When you combine the overall trend for the rich to get richer and the poor to stay poor with the complete absence of any infrastructure development in European colonies, it's absolutely not a surprise that today African countries are still poor.

The IQ thing is stupid fucking chaff put forward by morons. Society building doesn't rely on population-level IQ, or Europe would not have been able to bully China in the 19th century (the Chinese have both a higher mean IQ and higher variation than most European populations).

>>9958267
>
>holy fuck lmao

>are you retarded?
Left libertarian is an oxymoron, you cannot claim to value freedom but then just stop at economics

>>9966523
FWIW libertarian is an old word for anarchist

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>>9965333
>The grades may improve,
I didn't say that grades improved, I literally said that they improved to the point where they outperformed whites.

>IQ tests are literally the best metric man has ever discovered for measuring human capability
IQ tests are shit. Five minutes of googling came up with pages upon pages of arguments against them, such as:
http://www.lehigh.edu/~amsp/2007/12/gladwell-problems-with-iq-tests.html
>The big gains on the WISC are largely in the category known as “similarities,” where you get questions such as “In what way are ‘dogs’ and ‘rabbits’ alike?” Today, we tend to give what, for the purposes of I.Q. tests, is the right answer: dogs and rabbits are both mammals. A nineteenth-century American would have said that “you use dogs to hunt rabbits.”
Put simply IQ measures an incredibly narrow corpus of knowledge. The populations you are so eager to defend have probably grown up in suburbs or cities and don't know the first thing about preparing wild game, discerning edible plants from poisonous, navigation using landmarks, etc. None of this is measured by an IQ test but it'll keep you alive a lot longer in any disaster situation longer than knowing complex algebra. For most of history this made you just as intelligent as being able to regurgitate a lot of books.

>You keep naming all these problems, these symptoms
And I'm waiting for you to actually address them rather than ignoring them and attacking strawmen.

>From your egalitarian POV
I'm a race realist. I'm realistic in the sense that modern transportation technologies will mean that whiteness (as a trait) is literally destined to die off sometime in the future. Turns out that most whites like to fuck non-whites more than they like to obsess over cherry-picked racial statistics!

Literally the only way to reverse this trend is through some horrid authoritarian government that would force whites to marry and have children. Ever since having kids and not getting married became optional, wealthy whites have largely chosen to avoid these things. And I don't blame them, since children are by and large screeching expensive demons that eat up a minimum of 18 years of your life. Since social taboos are a lot harder to put back together than they are to break the only feasible way to recreate a society where most whites are marrying and reproducing at replacement rates is by government force.

I hope this doesn't scare you but most people don't really give a shit about whether or not whites "survive" as a distinct race 1000 years into the future. I certainly don't. Why should I? Why should I let myself be enslaved by some shitty apartheid government and give up most of my freedoms so that people in my city still kinda look like me in the year 3000?

>>9966523
>Left libertarian is an oxymoron, you cannot claim to value freedom but then just stop at economics
Economics is a made up game with certain rules we all agree to play by. Under right-libertarian rules, we all agree that this piece of paper means I own a factory. Left-libertarians want to play by different rules that are no more or less arbitrary than right-libertarians'.

>>9966495
>Europe would not have been able to bully China in the 19th century
Dunno about you but right now I'd like to bully some Chinese puss with my euro DICK

>>9965186
What is this?

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>>9966581

>he cited Malcolm Gladwell for the reason IQ dont b good

>>9966724
http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/16/3/7.html

>>9967131

this is interesting but the simulation's rules are literally "socially constructed" in this case, low dimensional automata models like this are a weak case for any social science hypothesis

>>9965716
The conversation is also about whether he's consistent in his principles. And he isn't.

>>9965186
As you get more cycles, shouldn't the entire population become more similar due to interbreeding?
And, ideological unity is just as good as racial unity -see : Israel

>>9957338
>book about arguing
stefan molyneux is a faggot loser i wouldn't be surprised if he literally gets off someone fuck his wife

>>9966451
>>9966433
The look on her face when she learns she was a 'project'. Learning this is going to be devastating. I think when Molyneux finds out he failed and starts to argue with her the way he argues on youtube, he's going to meltdown and do something completely crazy.

I feel like he kept losing arguments or something when he was young and now has spent his entire life not getting over this, and instead becoming negatively obsessed. He's a neurotic if not in a complete psychosis at this point.

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>>9967139
>this is interesting but the simulation's rules are literally "socially constructed" in this case, low dimensional automata models like this are a weak case for any social science hypothesis

I mean, until our AI overlords come along literally every stimulation hitherto has been a product, in some sense, of human input; I don't think it's fair to nullify an entire study based on that fact alone, especially when you look at their methodology. Otherwise all stimulations ever conducted are, by necessity, bunkum.

It's also helpful to be cognizant of the fact that Kaznatcheev and Shultz are as lefty as they come, so if they have any incentive for finagling with inputs it's in the direction of humanitarianism.

>>9967175

Don't ask me for a citation but iirc only something like 3-7% of marriages within any race are interracial, and that's in the most liberal countries. Not only of these marriages produce children, either. It will definitely have an effect though. But also I don't know in what context the study is being performed, perhaps it is not in a multiracial society. But I assume ethnocentrism is helpful even in intra-society, multiracial situations, let alone huge international conflicts.

>>9967214
>so if they have any incentive for finagling with inputs it's in the direction of humanitarianism

Oh anon, my sweet summer child!

>>9967214

>especially when you look at their methodology

the source statistics are fine, plugging them into an arbitrary automata is simply not a valid argument for the study's statement

>Otherwise all stimulations ever conducted are, by necessity, bunkum.

No, physical simulations work extremely well because we've figured out precise mathematical models for matter and energy in the real world,

Large scale (evolutionary) social science is far more complex and attempting to do low dimensional analysis on such a high dimensional domain is bad science. m not for or against the conclusion of the study from an opinion standpoint. Small scale actor or statistical models for small-medium in social sciences work really well in many studies, this is not one of them.

I don't doubt that the conclusion of the study is completely correct at the moment, but the study's simulation methodology is just weak from a computational/science standpoint.

>>9967208
nah he was the kid who when getting beaten up would try to get his bullies to stop smashing him by using intellectual reasoning and in the end became their punching bag.

>>9964501
Geographically from within (assuming they've arrived...) but ethnically and culturally pretty much an external threat because these people (MENA) do not integrate at all and function as separate societies entirely fueled by their host country.

>>9966581
Dumbest post on /lit/ right now

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>>9964401
>I'm in the vent system, listening

>>9966581
I honestly use to think and hope this was the case, but the truth is white schools are underfunded to push multicultural policy. Also blacks in UK tend to be religious and hard workers

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>>9959339
t. man who has not read Debord

>>9969577
>white schools are underfunded
lol

>>9965219
Message being "leave your family and give me money so you can join my weird cult"

>>9964702
>wage slavery

I laugh everytime, hahaha.

It's almost as if life is hard and you gotta suffer in order to get it.

Chomsky is a lier anyway, and I know his tricks. The guy basically repeats what the left in every country says, buying their narrative. His views are very partial and his sources are crap, which is apparent for those who actually know something about the subjects on which he talks. I only discovered he was a charlatan after listening to his talks about the situation in Brazil, because I'm Brazilian myself and know what's actually going on.

>>9970163
>I'm Brazilian myself and know what's actually going on
that would be important if you were the living spirit of brazil and brazilians but since you're just an anonymous poster that happens to be from brazil your opinion isn't worth the bytes it's written on

>>9969620

well I read the wikipedia summary

>>9957551

Its funny Stef rags on sophists but is the biggest sophist of all time.

>>9964605
That's my question. That cover is insane. I can't be arsed to look it up.

>>9965031
>Libertarians, at least ideologically consistent ones, have no problem with liberalism

It depends on what you mean by "liberalism," and whether that includes enforcing dubious mores with an increasing stridency and intolerance.

If you disagree, you might just be a liberal.

>>9962248

He never said the deductive argument was invalid. He is saying it is a bad argument. All the of replies to this post piss me off; you people can't comprehend what you read.

>>9965031
>Republicans have, generally speaking, ran on small-government platforms
But how did any of them actually govern? Nixon, Reagan, Bush all built up governmental powers to new heights. What you get in practice is increased government expenditures alongside corporate tax cuts which are somehow supposed to increase revenues coming into the government, but that never actually happens, and that only lays the foundations for a potential worse fiscal crises... then you're left with guys at the Fed like Greenspan/Bernanke having to work their magic to prevent it.

>>9970579
I don't think liberals ever believed a market society could function without morality, you can go all the way back to SJW's like Adam Smith with The Theory of Moral Sentiments

>>9970529
It's real, anon. That cover and all the excerpts posted from it, are real.

Why would anyone choose this over Schopenhauers "The Art Of Being Right"?

>>9970529
Looks like it could be the new Planet of the Apes movie poster or something, what a joke.

>>9968599
They can (and do) integrate if the immigration rate is slowed sufficiently.

>>9969577
>the gubmint is keeping the wypipo down
Ok

I actually like some of Molymeme's interviews (though his call-in show is insufferable). I couldn't read more than a couple pages of this, it's cringe inducing.

I've heard him say before that he "writes" using dictation software and that's exactly how this reads. It's like he didn't even edit it (except to add bold text).

>>9957463
>Stefan Molyneux
>A throwback to Presocratic Milesian thinkers, Molyneux posited the essential element that underlies the cosmos was "the Argument". One fragment we have available states, "The first thing to understand is that The Argument is everything", and goes on to claim, "The Argument is, in fact, life itself". From other fragments, we can discern Molyneux had a certain fondness for not allowing discussion or persuasion against his position, claiming them to be "not an Argument". This in turn denies the existence of these replies in his cosmos entirely as we have previously established "The Argument is everything", therefore anything that is not an Argument cannot exist.

Molymeme is showing that the limitation of a deductive argument. But as some autist showed (without getting his deserved respect) Moly messes up the logic of the deductive argument, the retard. Moly should be using Modus Ponens, but changes the antecedent and consequent midway.

>>9970687
kek

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>>9970687
DELETE THIS

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>WESTERN CIVILIZATIONS LAST STAND

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>this thread

Astounding that this cult leader has the amount of support he has, but I suppose these days the internet gives molyneux and his brand of conspiracy obsessed wackjobs more reach than ever.

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>>9965305
>In some cases teenagers of African heritage outperformed natives white Britons

Completely consistent with a scientific view of race, race works in terms of distribution and introducing somebody to first world nutrition and schooling will dramatically improve their grades.

You're looking at research specifically tailored to NOT actually say all that much about if there are actual racial differences in grades or IQ. That is because people already know the answer is, and it's not what they want, and thus it is offensive to directly examine it.

Guess what, Asians aren't outperforming whites in school because of poor impoverished white kids. They're just smarter. Also, IQ scores are a superb way of measuring success if we're calling high grades success, grades and IQ are highly correlated, if you want to find an area where IQ is poorly predictive it's not very good at predicting creative output.

The book is free on Kindle Unlimited so I started a free trial and have access to the whole thing.

Want any screens?

>>9962684
Go fuck yourself. Kant explicitly states that empirical reasoning is the only method by which knowledge of the objective world may be obtained.

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> tfw you feel like Stef is trying to do some wittgenstein
> tfw you realised Stef most likely doesn't know who that genius was

If that is Western Civilization, let it fall. I welcome my new islamic overlards.

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I am not joking. I wish I was.

>>9971147
is this kindergarten logic actually from the book?

>>9971150
this doesn't come to a surprise to anyone. I mean youtube celebs are big business now just look at Milo's book

>>9971153

Pulled it out from the amazon "look inside" function.

This is a disgrace.

>>9966581
>The populations you are so eager to defend have probably grown up in suburbs or cities and don't know the first thing about preparing wild game

Maybe it used to, but now, what keeps you alive is the skills tested by an IQ test. People getting better at cultural specific IQ questions DOES NOT explain the Flynn effect as well because the increase in scores are for more than culturally subjective questions. Further, this fails to explain IQ gaps like Asian-Wh*te especially because Asians tend to outperform wh*tes on things like arithmetic less culturally constrained.

I find one of the more compelling explanations for the flynn effect to be, for example, in China people applying for government jobs have had to pass tests for hundreds of years. Ability to test well, and thus IQ, has thus been associated with social status, thus it is sexually selected for.

>Put simply IQ measures an incredibly narrow corpus of knowledge.

Yes, IQ tests DO measure an incredibly narrow corpus of knowledge, that is why the tests are useful. If the tests tested a broad array of knowledge they would be unwieldy. They are strongly correlated with high grades in school than anything we know of besides conscientiousness. They measure success in complex jobs, they measure overall life success. IQ is so valid I would rather have my kid have a 99th percentile IQ than a 99th percentile income, because it's more valid a predictor.

I think people get mad at IQ because people misinterpret it as encompassing all of intelligence, and throw the entire thing out despite its power in validly measuring PARTS of intelligence and being the best intelligence measure there is. Moreso than some rabbit trapping exam. I really think the hate against IQ is not because it's an invalid measure, but because it's a VALID one, thus people try to discredit it because of its unfortunate implications, strengthening its credibility.

>most people don't really give a shit about whether or not whites "survive" as a distinct race 1000 years into the future. I certainly don't. Why should I?

Well, there's no real compelling argument other than arguing genetics. Having your great great grandbabies be surrounded by more people like them with some extra kinship towards them is more likely to ensure their reproductive success in some ways. Then again you can get all nihilistic about that and talk about the heat death of the universe. My two theories on why I care is either it's genetic impulse, or that all those lessons about how Genocide is bad backfired once I concluded whites were rapidly progressing to wiping themselves out. They're not wiping themselves because of (((them))), white people just seem to at a societal level given up the desire to sustain themselves in the world.

I believe you're correct of the inevitability of wh*te decline. Personally I think there's a more plausible route towards it being reversed is wh*te society collapsing and wh*tes becoming dirt poor.

>>9971158
well it's from the book but under "Examples of Bad Deductive Reasoning"

>>9957463
>w h a t d i d h e m e a n b y t h i s

>>9971174

I know, but it's so basic it's got to be a rip-off of Wikipedia.

>>9971164
Not someone you've been talking to, but I agree that IQ measures something valid. I also don't think that IQ scores are racially determined to any significant degree. Education is too important: https://www.ted.com/talks/james_flynn_why_our_iq_levels_are_higher_than_our_grandparents

To sum up the video, the way we think in western society has changed over time to the result that IQ scores have increased markedly each generation, this change has happened so fast that genetic factors simply cannot explain it.

>>9971187
>Education is too important:
Education is not even possible when the average IQ is below 90 or even 80 as it is the case with a majority of sub-Saharans.

>>9971094
Yes please

>>9971187
I won't deny at all genetics are in any way a complete explanation for IQ scores, it is obvious when you look at how changing the race of an adoptive family can boost IQs, or moving somebody to a new country can boost IQs. I think there is a HUGE emphasis especially on kids being able to do well on standardized testing, and I think there is crossover on the skills needed to do well on standardised testing and IQ tests, ability to do well at one predicts ability to do well at the other. We're literally putting kids on retalin now before they get their first IQ test and preschool enrollment only goes up.

It's certainly the case, undeniably, that certain races do better than others on IQ tests. This occurs to a statistically significant degree. Racial groups which are more socioeconomically disadvantaged than others do better than ones more socioeconomically advantaged. So in that sense, IQ scores are literally racially determined. I think the argument is more, why, the socioeconomic argument completely fails to explain it, so that leaves you two explanations. Genetics, in which case certain races are just fucked and can never get smart collectively. Or culture, which would imply that Black people aren't naturally dumb, they're just people who could do better in school, but choose not to, in some way that's more damning morally, but it's also more optimistic because it leaves the opportunity for change. Then when I see stuff like the Minnesota transracial adoption study, the culture argument seemingly becomes a lot weaker.

>>9971182
it's the dumb, simplistic 'logic' of feminists, antifa, SJWs and Islam defender types, therefore it seems very familiar today.

where is everyone ? Rapture ?

>>9957338
anyone have a pdf version. come on, isn't /lit/ just a bunch of commies, anyway? How hard is it to transfer the file to your computer, convert it to pdf and share it?

From ability to needs or whatever you people say.

>>9972077
May Father Karl and Uncle Freddy forgive me.
(You're lucky someone uploaded it to mobilism)
http://www92.zippyshare.com/v/CRrZeBWE/file.html

>>9962248
I mean they are invalid, study more mathematics/logic.

The first one is invalid because there are some people who can swim that are not plumbers.
"All X are Y, Z is Y, therefore Z is X" - invalid because not only X are Y.

The second one is invalid because there are kind people who are not socialist.
"Most X are Y, Z is X, therefore Z is Y" - invalid because some X are not Y.

>>9972577
The book only has 150 pages btw.

>>9957338
A wayyyyyy better argument book for normies.

https://www.amazon.ca/Art-Deception-Introduction-Critical-Thinking/dp/159102532X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1504398553&sr=8-3&keywords=the+art+of+deception