Why can't black people write good literature?

Because god gave them the genius of music. God only had literature left for whiteys.

>>9948835
Invisible Man is a masterpiece. Song of Solomon is very, very good

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>>9948845

>god gave them the genius of music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUgiMulY42g

>>9948835
They couldn't invent the wheel by themselves. Why do you think?

brain too small

>>9948835
This board is gay and retarded, I give up

>>9948835
>pimp is bad literature
gf got blacked huh?

>>9948835
Why can't you compose a good post, OP?
Do you really obsess over blacks this much in life?
You're like one of those people who starts and ends every sentence with "fuckin uh"

>>9948845
God must truly be dead then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzSUgOmP66Q

Jesus christ, this is a fair topic whether you agree or not. If you disagree post books that show he is wrong if you don't then further the argument.

I don't know why it is race discussions that conversations break down.

>>9948835
Maybe, it's because the Sub-Saharan Africans never had a civilization that made there own discoveries on mathematics, astronomy, literature, philosophy, architecture, science, and infrastructure like the rest of the ancient world.

>>9949382
It's really no different than speaking about a sport's teams potentiality. Just butthurt libs.

Alexander Dumas is part black. I haven't looked into the Harlem Renaissance, has anyone read the works coming out of that era?

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>>9949382
Brief History of Seven Killings (and everything else james has written)
Half of a Yellow Sun
The Fishermen
Song of Solomon
The Sellout
The Wretched of the Earth
Native Son
Thiongo has like 5 good books
The Black Jacobins (god tier)


This is just a brief scrolldown of my calibre screen. These are cringey threads because so many people are so fucking uninformed, that they think most "black" books are the ghostwritten sob stories by assholes like zadie smith.

>>9949392
>This board is full of commies of liberals
>for recommending Pimp
You need to learn how to read.

>>9949416
Fuck off, you cuck. Those are all shit compared to literature written by white men like me

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>>9948835
Plato was black!

>>9949422
Hakeem, you're fooling nobody. You're going to wind up reading Nation of Islam shit if you don't read Pimp and read it well.

>>9949392
>cuckold pornography is brought up in a thread
>its a /pol/tard
Every time.

Chinua Achebe is GOAT

>>9949523
I found him to be plain and somewhat uninteresting until the last (2) chapter(s), which is basically why that book is held in such high regard.

>>9949525
I didn't mention any book specifically... but ok.

>>9948835
THICC

Oh look, it's this retard again.

There are plenty of "good" books, or better, by Black Authors if you look for them.

Consider this: racial equality is a near absolute virtue and desire for the world in the great works of literature. There are no compelling arguments from the western literary Canon for racism or the superiority of white men. Your point of view is not shared by the great authors, white or otherwise. Sure, you can find a few bigots from the old days being "honest" in interviews but I can't think of a single great work of literature which is on your side in this matter.

You are at odds with the canon on this matter. If you look up to those great white men as much as you do, maybe you should try listening to what they are trying to tell you about humanity. Honestly, you live in a bubble. Try and make friends with black people. Life is too short.

>>9948835
low IQ.

>>9949633
>he thinks writers have high iqs
you don't get good stories being smart, anon.

>>9949628

This.

Read Ellison's Invisible Man, the poems of Langston Hughes, Morrison's Beloved, Cesaire's A Tempest, Wilson's Fences, Fanon, WEB and Booker T, Frantz Fanon's The Wretched of the Earth and so many more I'm not going to bother typing out.

We're all humans, get over yourself

>>9948835
remember to sage and report /pol/ threads

>>9949416
>Brief History of Seven Killings (and everything else james has written)
middlebrow garbage
>Half of a Yellow Sun
decent but immature. hoping her late works become better
>The Fishermen
havent read
>Song of Solomon
actual hot garbage, heavy handed amateur symbolism, stilted prose, shoehorned plot to convey "mystical moral lessons" that are mostly morrisons's own banal proselytizing masquerading as character development. morrison competes with dylan for least deserving nobel winner
>The Sellout
havent read
>The Wretched of the Earth
decent, though its phil not literature. it's interesting and fanon is an influential thinker, regardless of whether you agree with his conclusions
>Native Son
kinda boring. coulda used some editing. its not bad but its not particularly good either
>Thiongo has like 5 good books
no he doesn't
>The Black Jacobins (god tier)
never heard of it

>>9949647
>Read Ellison's Invisible Man
pretty good
>the poems of Langston Hughes,
decent but far from the peak of poetry
>Morrison's Beloved,
see >>9949775
morrison is garbage
>Cesaire's A Tempest
haven't read
>Wilson's Fences
bad. parochial and banal.

>>9948901
>Wh*te music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AdtR-d2HJQ

Les Trois Mousquetaires
Le Comte de Monte-Cristo
The Color Purple

Sub-Saharan languages are very limited which inhibits a persons ability to think.

>>9949775
This post sounds t h r e a t e n e d

>>9949647

>We're all humans, get over yourself

Why would a shared humanity guarantee literary ability? Why would all human populations be equally good at any given task? Even if there was no genetic component the cultural differences are huge. Everybody agrees that Switzerland makes better watches than China, so why do people get offended when you say that Great Britain produces better literature than Africa?

Some anon once said that Faber&Faber has published more quality literature than has been produced in entire countries, and I have to agree.

>>9949823
>Why would a shared humanity guarantee literary ability?

Did I say that? I just said African Americans (and people of African descent) have made positive contributions to the arts. I think your basement needs a new lightbulb

>>9949789
>Les Trois Mousquetaires
>Le Comte de Monte-Cristo
Dumas was a quadroon, not truly black. It's safe to say that his intelligence and literary skill came from his French ancestry, not his 80 IQ African grandmother

>>9949831

All you did was list a few black authors in order to distract us from the fact that Africans are underrepresented in who contributes to the arts. I could list out some names of abnormally strong women but it wouldn't follow from that that all women are as strong as men, but this exactly is what you're trying to do with black authors.

>>9949640
>reading for the plot
Are you actually blackkk?

>>9949849

Have you ever taken a debate class or are you legit retarded

>>9949858

No I never took a debate class. Is that what we're having? I thought we were just talking.

>>9949831
>I just said African Americans (and people of African descent) have made positive contributions to the arts
But this is empirically wrong; if anything they've made the arts stupider and lazier. As righteous and mellow as jazz and hip hop make your degenerated soul feel, everything Africa has ever produced is objectively hot pigshit compared to the heights of Western art music.

>>9949831

They have contributed very little of value because their culture holds intellectualism at a discount. That and, you know, the possibility that evolution might not stop at the neck up.

>>9949857
you realize if you're reading for prose, the highest forms of prose are language mixing and generally from oral tradition cultures (i.e. the irish and blacks)?

>>9949881
ye no, this is false.

>>9949823
Moving goalposts. Op asked why black people can't write good literature. An idiotic question.

On to you: there were far more opportunities for publishing in the UK than there were in the Congo. Race isn't a factor, unless you are thick enough to full stop on their skin colour as a signifier why the Congo lacks literature which stands neck and neck with books from the UK. but history and climate are. This will change over the coming decades as technology and economies of scale level the playing field. Unless we all die horribly.

"Tolstoy was the Tolstoy of the Zulus."

Literature has gone past this discussion.

>>9949392
you sound like a caricature

>>9949886
>he doesn't know ireland dominates literature
>he doesn't know the closest contender is russia, which pushkin dominates
>he hasn't even read nabokov in english on the second subject
there's no hope for you

>>9949872
What exactly are the heights of "Western art music"?

Jazz is sublime, you filthy casuals.

>>9949872
Adorno was wrong about jazz.

>>9949904
>jazz is sublime
did you get lost on your way to reddit newfriend?

>>9949887

Yes but *why* were there more opportunities to publish in the UK than in the Congo? Why did Gutenberg find a ready market for his invention in Europe, and not any other continent? If you think that the Congolese will ever reach the civilizational level of the British you are going to die a disappointed man.

>Literature has gone past this discussion.

I don't really care what some left wing professors have decided from on high.

>>9949909
>being this new
>being this much like a salinger character

>>9949909
Are you taking a break from loli/trap threads? Cool it down. Listen to Wes Montgomery or something on YouTube.

>>9949422
>white men
Yes
>like me
No. Not at all.

>>9949872
>>9949879

I recognize having a "discussion" with white supremacists (/pol/) is futile, but you're already staining your own "defense" by belittling people based on the color of their skin. If you honestly think jazz and hip hop are "degenerate" your mind is already made up. Miles Davis and Charles Mingus were geniuses, like it or not. The albums of Public Enemy reflected the attitude of the African American community toward a society they felt abandoned them.

You can stay in your bubble as long as you want, but the world is moving past you and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

>>9949922
Can you please post some right wing professors who argue for white superiority/supremacy? Oh right, you fucking can't. It doesn't exist. The argument isn't compelling to anyone with published critical essays. Only white power zines with shit design and copy. Do it, show me the smoking gun.

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>I've always found jazz to be of the most sublime genres of music. The Africans have made many fine contributions to the arts such as Toni Morrison and Gucci Mane

patently false

>>9949958
Holy fuck. You're not even trying anymore.

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>>9949951
>brown people blamed those who were more successful and intelligent than them for their problems
>thus, the music brown people made is good

>>9949951
Mingus was probably more /pol/ than /pol/ is the hilarious part.
>when you load your fire arm in the middle of an interview

>>9949954
inb4 it's a result of 'biased leftwing academia'. Literally the exuse for everything from these faggots is calling out bias or claiming it's fake until it's confirmed then they knew it all along and have their own little spin on it. So fucking pathetic

>>9949971
Circular jokes and anecdotal opinions. Not one of you racism joy riding children can actually back up what say. You are racist or get off on pretending to be racist (which is a really fucking lame way to spend your limited time alive) and you are pleased with staying that way. Comparing Toni Morrison with Gucci Mane.. pathetic.

>>9948878
Yeah, Invisible Man holds up pretty damn well.

>>9949775
>middlebrow garbage

k bro

>>9949996
you've never read it have you?

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>>9949951

How am I living in a bubble any more than you people?

>>9949954

Well, James Watson, the Nobel Laureate, for one. I'm not saying that I think all black people are dumbos, I'm just saying that it's POSSIBLE that ON AVERAGE they might not be as intelligent. I don't know why this idea is so scary, it's not like there's an IQ requirement for voting rights.

Damn, /lit/ got triggered

>>>/SafeSpace/

Because most can't read.

The worst part of the /pol/ infestation is you can tell they don't fucking read, apart from wikipedia summaries and infographics of course

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>>9950041

Why do liberals always project?

>>9949979
If you think academia isn't openly and aggressively opposed to any questioning of egalitarian doctrine then you're a fucking retard and probably brainwashed beyond the point of recovery. Dr Arthur Jensen was a well-known professor of psychology at Berkeley until he started publishing his studies on racial differences in intelligence, after which his students started burning effigies that represented him on campus and he was effectively shoved down the memory hole. Dr Charles Murray was recently assaulted by a mob of progressive apparatchiks because twenty years ago he proved that black people were stupider on average than whites and Asians. William Luther Pierce taught physics at Oregon State until he lost his job for having incorrect political opinions. The same thing happened to Dr Kevin MacDonald and Dr Nick Land. Adorno was an internationally famous leftist theoretician who happened to be aware of racial differences in culture, but his credentials didn't prevent him from being murdered by violent anti-racists. Dr James Watson discovered the structure of DNA but still had to sell his Nobel Prize because he couldn't find employment after publicly noticing that Africa's problems were largely caused by the deep ingrained stupidity of the African people.

In summary, people far smarter than you have repeatedly and empirically demonstrated the reality of anti-egalitarianism for the past century. You don't already know this because you're kind of an idiot and probably trapped in a self-reinforcing bubble

>>9950041
And Julius Evola
>Le Intellectual Nazi meme

>>9950010
The best Watson had were his anecdotal opinions about black employees. Also, I requested literary criticism from storm front Doc Martin wearing racists who are published.

>>9950014
I can appreciate a witty racist joke but the "duhh aren't blacks dumb, guys?" stuff isn't funny.

>>9950061
That's cute.

So, still nothing pertaining to literary criticism?

>>9950067

You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you? You didn't ask for "literary criticism from storm front Doc Martin wearing racists who are published", you asked for "right wing professors who argue for white superiority/supremacy?" Me and this >>9950061 guy both provided some names. I would also add professor Hermann Hoppe, although he doesn't come right out and say it.

We are all human, but we are not equal. European have the strongest culture, education has been implemented in our daily lives for a long time.
Thanks to my ancestor for this genetic heritage.

Africans have always been satisfied with a simple life. Until our arrival.

I you really are nationalist, you do not spit on other peoples, you just make your people and your country better. So, let them developed their own culture with the time they need.

>>9950080
This is called moving the goalposts. Basically what happened is that you realized I had proved you wrong, so you tried to save face and change your position to a new one after having been refuted and revealed to be a dumb little retard.

In the future, don't do this. It makes you look like a dumb little retard, not to mention weaselly. The proper thing to do is to admit that you had been saying dumb shit and correct your behavior. Next time, just don't say dumb shit and we won't have to have this talk

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>>9948835
Thomas Sowell is Bretty gud
>Inb4 someone posts Quadroon Dumais as if he is black
No

>>9950097
Hotly contested studies from a casual glance so far. I'll be honest here: I'm not as invested in confirmation bias as you are so I am unfamiliar with everyone listed, except Watson.

I fail to see how this supports the viewpoint that black people can't write good literature.

Who are your favorite authors?

>>9950080

There's a worrying lack of diversity in Bloom's Western Canon. I've noticed that a lot of American Jews have a less than complimentary opinion of black people. (See also: Alan Bloom)

God only knows why, I'm sure living close to gang members and street thugs is a very enriching experience.

>>9950128

Well maybe you shouldn't talk about things you're unfamiliar with, eh Tyrone? Unlike you I've actually read the authors I criticize.

I'm not going to give you list of my favourite authors so you can shit on them, but right now I'm reading Ernst Junger.

>>9950109
Actually, I'm not exactly worried about you proving me wrong. You have supplied some names, though I am aware of Watson's bigotry. Nothing conclusive otherwise.

I feel a little sad for you man. Do you have friends?

>>9950112
>imply OP would consider him white
they considered octroons black

>>9949382
>Jesus christ, this is a fair topic whether you agree or not.

no its really not, it's just a sign that someone hasn't taken a serious interest in literature. There's fucktons of black authors out there

>liberals
lol

>>9948835
You're too young to be allowed read Delaney. Saged for underage in Canada.

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>>9950165

Nice dude, you're really proving us wrong with those personal attacks! I'm sure that cute girl in your Africana Studies class will totally fuck you after she hears about your impassioned defence of Black Folk on a Sinhalese net mending forum!

>>9950194

quantity != quality

>>9950236

seriously doubting OP has read anything by a black author

>>9950254

I was forced to read a fair few in college:

Achebe
Toni Morrison
Marcus Garvey
Frederick Douglass
Fanon
CLR James
Steve Biko

Ironically enough, Garvey was a raging anti-semite but it was okay because he's black and therefore immune from criticism. The only black author I actually like is Baldwin, because he wrote one (1) book that wasn't about racial oppression.

I thought we black folks literally weren't allowed to read or write for a few hundred years. That might have something to do with it.

That and being seen as less than human for...well, some people still see us as less than human. Can you imagine a bunch of wig-wearing inbreds passing around a slave/non-human written book and even comparing it to something they wrote? I can't.

>>9949525
Yeah, most of the book bored me as well, but that ending...holy shit.

>>9950391
>muh oppression

This has to be bait

There are plenty of authors whose grandparents didn't know how to read

>>9950391
There was no one stopping blacks in Africa from reading or writing.

Toni Morrison was originally white. She did a plastic surgery to look black because of inferior complex.

>>9948835
Kind of a dumb question, they can.

I think a more reasonable question is whether they are just as likely or capable of writing masterpieces on average.

I would say no, I think for more than one reason, societal and otherwise, blacks are on the whole less likely to be able to write true epics.

Just like how a disproportionate number of world-class mathematicians have certain genetic lines, and a disproportionate number of Ashkenazis are winning Nobel science prizes, high literature and fine art generally seems less likely to be coming from blacks, and not merely for societal reasons.

>>9950497
No one said it was the sole reason, but ruling it out as a factor is voluntary blindness.

Regardless of how history tries to paint the vast majority literary greats as "the common man", they weren't. Certain financial classes have always had an inherent advantage when it comes to literary quality. Be it time, access to education, a familiarity with great works from a younger age, or whatever other from the myriad of advantages you can come up with.

>>9950502
The same thing keeping trailer park folk from composing symphonies.

>>9950666
> Certain financial classes have always had an inherent advantage when it comes to literary quality.

You have failed to explain why black people have the seeming inability to transcend their lower-class origins since the end of slavery and Jim Crow

And don't say "muh inherited wealth" because again, there are plenty of authors whose grandparents were illiterate plebeians

>>9950728
The quoted text was a pretty obvious segway from race to financial class, yet you insist on bringing it back to race again.

The two overlap to create a pretty decent obstacle towards penning great literature. They're forced to write from what they know, which falls on deaf ears with other races.

Lit trashes fiction on a regular basis, so that won't please you. What would a black person write from experience that would even be given the time of day by...say..you. obviously nothing "much oppression" related. Cultural perspective narratives won't be read. Have you ever thought of what a black person would have to write to be considered "good literature"?

>>9950822
>yet you insist on bringing it back to race again.

To be fair, that is what this thread is about.

>Lit trashes fiction on a regular basis, so that won't please you.

Does it?

>What would a black person write from experience that would even be given the time of day by...say..you.

Not all writing has to be from experience. I suspect that's what is holding so many black writers back; their inability to look outside the narratives of their own culture.

That said, Things Fall Apart has been mentioned in this thread, and it was decent.

>Have you ever thought of what a black person would have to write to be considered "good literature"?

Look buddy, if you want me to come up with story ideas for you, just ask directly.

>>9950859
True that's what the thread is about, but being black and being poor correlate since the dawn of the great ol USofA.

Not all writing comes from experience, but not all literature is "good" either. Writing from experience can give and edge to an otherwise mediocre author.

The thread asked why there were no good pieces of literature from black people. Say writing a good novel was a roll of the dice. And getting it published was another. Getting the book read another. Having the book endure another. The odds are against anyone, but throw in a few more throws of the dice for being black, being a minority in general (this is strictly national makeup), education, the list can grow. But merely playing the odds game can answer that question. No need for the defensiveness.

I write fiction and have far too many unwritten ideas of my own to bother with trying to find new ones.

>>9948835

Joyce was actually black so your statement is incorrect.

>>9948835
But the Greeks were black

>>9950194
>There's
>no

I believe nothing you said.

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How are we defining good literature?

>inb4 not about race or oppression

Most great classical literature deals with some form of oppression in one or another, so I'm not sure why this is always a complaint against black lit.

>>9951197
Because blacks copy genres and they copy plotlines. Their literature is simply unimaginative. The only people interested in it are people who want to be dazzled.

Here's my argument, the most diverse you can be inside writing without jumping out of the subject of writing is to make a new genre. Same with philosophy and same with music. Rock is one genre but it has tons upon tons of subgenres. Rap really is only one genre and we know rock wasn't invented by one person.

There are some good things blacks do but it's usually the entire opposite of the rest of their population.

>>9951218
>Because blacks copy genres and they copy plotlines.

Cam you show some examples of this?

>>9951218
Don't most of the humdrum authors copy plotlines and genres?

Not sure how that's a "black thing"

Not being familiar with rap doesn't allow you to reduce it to one genre.

>>9951247

>"white man"
>>busts of black people

>>9949416
>Song of Solomon
>Native Son

Literally my nigga

>>9951303
Say how it has more genres than one and cloud rap doesn't count because it has nothign to do with rap and everything to do with music production. Unless you want to include the costumes they wear as rap music. Even still so, outside of cloud rap what has changed for it to be called a subgenre? They have went through eras in which they spoke about something else but nothing changed.

Can you imagine if we spent 30 years being blasted Grunge music? No because it would never happen. We wouldn't stand for that. But blacks do it and all the sudden it's glorious.

>>9949789
I haven't read Purple yet but The Temple of my Familiar was fucking great. It's a shame no one ever talks about it.

>>9951229
Yes, they've literally never invented a literary genre or an interesting plotline.

Now I'm not saying it's easy to be original but their literature most certainly isn't.

Sensationalist novels 300 years out of date. I simply can't take their literature seriously unless it's an autobiography and at that point I'm not reading for the literary style.

Any good books about Ghana? Asking for a friend.

>>9948845
Didn't know Beethoven was black

>>9951426
He's not

T. black person

>>9950165

>bigotry

Uh, it's called science sweetie.

>>9951426
What, you thought the white man could claim the credit for inventing jazz?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQMCfqFr4XA

>>9951218
>Rap really is only one genre
Are you even trying?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_music

>>9948878
Woah, I agree with this too. Read these both recently.

>>9951426
that was motzart

>>9951322
Literal first result from Google...
Alternative Rap
Bounce
Dirty South
East Coast Rap
Gangsta Rap
Hardcore Rap
Hip-Hop
Latin Rap
Old School Rap
Rap
Underground Rap
West Coast Rap

We're in an annoying age of Mumble rap now where everyone thinks it's cool to Mumble everything they say. Black floks don't get bogged down like rock autists with the genre nonsense. I don't even listen to rap, I'm a metal guy myself, but the metal heads are constantly having autist arguments about genres and names to the point no one cares. Emocore vs metalcore vs trancecore vs Nintendocore blah blah blah. They're the same damn thing.

>>9949845

>h-he's not truly black!
>doesnt count!

>>9948835
Why can't white people run fast?

great thread

>>9952033
how can blackbois recover?

>>9948901
>blurred nipples on fully clothed wo'man
behold america