Is panentheism heretical?

>>9939346
God is Satan

>>9939346
On the surface not necessarily.
But in certain readings where it denies and extinguished the individuality and independence of the human soul then yes absolutely

>>9939362
That's interesting because I would have thought the more heretical implications were the denial of the individuality and independence of the personified God. That is, in reducing the God as a character to God as a divine essence or quality.

>>9939362
Shut up faggot

>>9939369
This
If God doesn't have a mind like the God of Christianity then what made it create the universe when it did instead of some time before?
If creation was a necessary consequence of God's properties than the only intuitive creation times would be never or infinitely old.

>>9939377
Make me dickweed

>>9939386
So panentheism implies spontaneous (rather than wilful) creation, or no creation at all?

>>9939369
>>9939386
You're forgetting the Christian God as per the Trinity is already reconciled to this apparent contradiction of the Father and the divine substance

>>9939386
>then what made it create the universe when it did instead of some time before? If creation was a necessary consequence of God's properties than the only intuitive creation times would be never or infinitely old.

Thomas Aquinas addressed this. He proposed a third option which is why assume there was any time before the creation? Rather there could not have been, there was simply nothing that could be called time before creation

>>9939416
So you're saying panentheism is not heretical, but rather one element of the conception of God even in traditional Christianity? The holy trinity implies that God is A being, and also being itself, and also the divine and individual expression of being in every person?

How could panentheism ever have been controversial in the church then?

>>9939456
Simply put, if it asserts we are God

>>9939464
But isn't that what the holy trinity asserts? That God is Himself, and Being itself, and the divine in all of us at the same time? Or is it just the divine in Jesus and we are just fucked?

>>9939406
Kys "creep"

>>9939470
No, we merely possess the holy spirit, and through it we can fulfill ourselves towards God

>>9939482
So panentheism is a crucial part of the trinity then. I still don't understand how this was ever controversial if it is there in the original teachings. No one asserted we ARE God, but that we have the holy spirit in us.

>>9939489
>No one asserted we ARE God

Some, all the way back to the Gnostic tradition, did however And they were rightfully burned for their life denying stoneworship

>>9939499
So they were pantheists, but not panentheists? And the former is heretical but the latter is not?

Luke 17:21
>nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among you
We are all divine and holy and anybody who says otherwise is just a blasphemer who wants to risk their soul.

>>9939504
In such a conception of panentheism. You are correct

File: IMG_2867.png (79KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 600x600px

>>9939386
>time
>>9939386
Doesn't that mean that Creation is necessary for God to exist? Sounds like herecy.
On a separate note has anyone disproved the panentheism posed in Spinoza's ethics? I'm reading it rn, it just seems too airtight to reject.

>>9939513
Why did Aquinas get in so much trouble then? It is right there in the scripture and in the concept of the holy trinity. How do religious authorities ever justify arguing against this?

>>9939526
To take it even further, how do christians even justify an authoritarian structure in light of these teachings?

>>9939532
This triggers the catholic-fags. If you want to really duck with the argument, read mark 10

>>9939569
10:18 that is

>>9939569
>>9939571
Look, you have to understand the pragmatic reality of the Church. Its better to have a dry hierarchy that no one likes or respects over the likes of Joel Osteen running rampent

>>9939608
Why? What does the hierarchy offer that direct teachings (albeit with some bad renegades) couldn't?

Don't listen to these heretics OP, pantheism is heresy, God made the world, is present in it and is above it, he is of a different and higher order of existence. He transcends the universe.

>>9941090
Note pantheism is not the same as panentheism. What do you think about the latter in relation to your strong stance?

>>9941100
God, by his will, sustains the universe, but is not a part of it, he created it outside of himself.
If I remember correctly, Hegel also believed that creation and God sustain each other, which doesn't jive with Catholic teaching, He doesn't depend on anything.