Why do you still eat animals?

>>9898971
Reading that book years ago didn't change my mind at all.

As soon as I heard how much healthier it was to be vegan though I immediately became vegan. I still don't care at all about animals either.

>>9898971
they are delicious

>>9898971
>Why do you still eat animals?
I honestly don't know.

>>9898994
It's hard to stop, I know. There are good methods though.

>>9898978
That's pretty crazy! What makes you so unempathetic you think?

>>9899006
I never had a puppy

>>9898982
At least you're honest.

Why wouldn't I? Anything factory-processed is awful, if you didn't realize that years ago I don't know what to say.

>>9899035
I heard those are pretty delic- I mean cute.

>>9899038
What does this mean?

I acknowledge that eating animals is wrong now that we have alternatives but while I do have some scruples, morality is not really my number one priority. People like a bad boy anyways.

>>9899052
Lol you're remaining a meat-eater for the bad-boy appeal. Nice. Why isn't morality a higher priority for you? Not very religious?

>>9899050
The main arguments in that book are against the factory farming system, but that applies to practically everything - grains, mass-farmed vegetables, confectioneries, beverages, and so on, meat is just one facet, amplified by the insistence of many people to apply anthropomorphic traits to non-sentient creatures. You have no issues with me eating beetle larvae, or probably even something like kangaroo, yet the cute little piglet suddenly is off limits? Please.

>>9899000
I've stopped before, without knowing. Gone months without meat. Or buying it at least.

I know all of the reasons and arguments, have figured out which are BS and real. Heck, I'll tell people about it, when it comes up.
By all accounts, I should be vegan, or at the very least someone who never buys meat and actively avoids it when a guest.

But still. It's really weird. I wonder what is keeping me from committing. Maybe because I have a strong dislike for lifestyle vegans.

>>9899059
>castigating a meat-eater's amorality on religious grounds
>And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
hmm...

>>9899068
The meat industry compounds any issue farming has, for feeding and drink alone, not counting sanitation.
Meat is highly wasteful.

There are more than enough reasons to not eat meat that have nothing to do with animal ethics.

>>9899068
Grain producers kill millions of animals? I mean yeah I value the life of a pig more than a beetle... A kangaroo? Of course I wouldn't want you to eat one of those.

can't spook me bro steak is delicious

>>9899072
Would you be self conscious as a vegan? People who say vegans are pussies are just projecting, man. They don't even have the wherewithal to give up their tasty meals (and learn how to cook other tasty meals).

>>9899037
I'm kidding, retard. The thing is I can already tell you're a terrible person who would throw your own mother under a bus if it could save your skin. So, I'm not like that, but I don't care if an animal created to be eaten finds itself so.

>>9899078
Most things are wasteful, like the plastic you buy your flax seed in, it's just the order of magnitude that you care about, which is personal morality and up to an individual. I personally object to the deforestation of rainforests and try to limit my coffee intake to select products that don't do that, but I would never try and force the fags that inhabit Starfux to stop drinking their shit.

>>9899080
Yes, or are you unaware of what pesticides are? Or do insects not count despite being the backbone of our livelihood? What makes you value the life of the piglet more than the beetle? The piglet, for all intents and purposes, has no place in the ecosystem anymore - if it exists, it is purely to be killed; their wild cousin, the boar, is a scourge that needs to be culled, they no longer belong. Beetles at least contribute to the bottom layers of fauna, feeding and being a food source for many a creature. I've had kangaroo before, it was very gamey with a sort of bitterness to it, but still good. I'd put it below something like elk, though, but that's probably because elk is more familiar.

>>9899080
Please stop using animal ethics as an argument, m8. It doesn't work and turns people off. Don't use the health stuff either, the research is wonky anyway.

Meat is uneconomic (feeding, water, sanitation, etc), shit for the environment (yes, also beyond climate change), increases plague risks and actually makes people hunger unnecessarily.

Lab meat is on the horizon. Until then, meat is kind shit. And not eating it is an easier moral thing to do nowadays than, say, paying attention where you clothes and tech products have been produced and where your trash ends up.

>>9899097
Holy shit you can? What kind of physic powers do you got bro?

>>9899089
No, not self-conscious. I suppose I'd second-guess my intentions. I have a strong aversion to doing the right thing for the wrong reason.

>>9899059

Morality isn't my top priority because I'm a very busy guy who has a lot of goals that involve having to act cynically and selfishly (not in some sort of extreme, sociopathic, edgy, or fraudulent way, just slightly more egoistically than the average scientist.) My experience so far has taught me that getting overly emotional, acting like a moralizing and sanctimonious prude, and sacrificing yourself for your principles will slow you down. And yes I realize that some people can get ahead without compromising but frankly I don't want to chance it.

I'm not terribly religious, though I do meditate for 40 minutes a day.

Also, don't act so smug. Most vegans and vegetarians eventually give it up.

Remember this post. I told you so.

>>9899109
vegan psychic powers
not having them means you probably eat fish

>>9898971
>why do you eat animals
Because I'm not mentally ill.

>>9899102
>Yes, or are you unaware...
Beetles are bugs they don't feel things the same as larger animals do, they don't suffer in the same way and with the same intensity. It's clear to me you're not an empathetic person and you won't be swayed by my argumentation.

I am against using harmful pesticides if they actually kill millions of animals a year. Tell me how I can easily stop that and I'll get on it ASAP.

>>9899102
>Most things are wasteful,
Not all things are equally wasteful and just wasting a little less is better than nothing.
>like the plastic you buy your flax seed in
I don't consume flax seed, because I don't buy into BS health fads.
>it's just the order of magnitude that you care about, which is personal morality and up to an individual.
I don't care what you do. You just seem to be under the impression that not eating animals is inherently linked to being a treehugger.

Being a vegetarian is surprisingly easy. Especially today. And it has a relatively big impact on multiple fronts. It's just a genuinely smart way to consume ethically. People tend to forget that, when the majority of people who advocate it have dreadlocks and are judgmental when you don't take part.
>I personally object to the deforestation of rainforests and try to limit my coffee intake to select products that don't do that, but I would never try and force the fags that inhabit Starfux to stop drinking their shit.
See? This is what I mean. Nobody is forcing you to do shit. Not even the faggots you are probably projecting on me here.

Just give it a thought and look into the actual studies and reports. That's all I'm suggesting.

>>9899119
Most vegans and vegetarians in the West are atheistic. This is why they give it up.

So would giving up eating animals get in the way of your career goals? I don't get it. Why don't you at least be empathetic where you can?

>>9899119
Not that guy, but...
That doesn't sound like you may actually not like where your life is heading.

>>9899119
>>9899168

*sounds like, duh

Going to bed now...

>>9898971
Are there any good anti-vegan books out there?

I'm sick of all the pro-vegan retards and I'd like to have some better arguments than just "Meat tastes good retard, fuck off and let me do what I want" so they actually fuck off and let me do what I want

>>9899179
>better arguments than just "Meat tastes good retard, fuck off and let me do what I want"
There are none.

>>9899179
No because your position is legitimately the wrong one on every and all fronts. Even taste. Meat practically has no taste in it's original form (without seasoning). And even worse if you don't cook it! But that's beside the point.

>>9899189
>No because your position is legitimately the wrong one on every and all fronts.
Oh yeah? Good job trying to stop me, then.

>Meat practically has no taste in it's original form (without seasoning)
Who gives a shit if it tastes good when seasoned?

>>9899189
>Meat practically has no taste in it's original form (without seasoning).
That's such a BS statement, that I think you might be baiting.

Game tastes so intense, you'll NEED seasoning to even it out.

Why do vegans like to pretend that animal lives are worth more than human pleasure and comfort? Isn't that arbitrary? Humans and animals are fundamentally different after all, every human inherently acknowledges that humans are superior.

>>9899146
I'm actually incredibly empathetic, but it's towards my fellow man, not lesser creatures, but you only have my word for it, so it's fine if you don't believe me. If you're going to go down that path, where's the cutoff point? Are raccoons worthy of your empathy?

As for the pesticides thing, it really comes down to your wallet; if you can, buy organic, pesticide-free stuff, and if you can't, try to buy locally, reducing the amount of mass-produced stuff you buy. I'd say grow your own as the cheapest solution, but that's far out of the reach for most people. I grow my own herbs, but that's about all I can really do, winter is fast and ruthless. Also, if you can, take up beekeeping. I swear one of these days I will do so, once I get out of this shitty fucking city. We need more bees in the world.

>>9899153
>less is better than nothing
sure, but if you eschew meat but buy plastic water bottles by the truckload, you're worse than the meat-eaters who can at least not buy into the mass-factory crap.
>flax
was an example, I have no idea what you consume.
>no meat = treehugger
No, but most people that do it for the ethical reasons tend towards that stereotype, at least in my anecdotal experience, and it appears to be a common trope based on /ck/'s daily muh veganism threads.

vegetarianism might be easy, but so is eating meat without contributing to the factory-farming shit. Not to mention you're still buying in to the factory-farming industry if you buy mass-produced cheese and whatnot, which might be ironic or hypocritical. Your own personal ethics might allow for it, though. I've looked into it, though admittedly not extensively, and as far as I can tell as long as I avoid the factory farming, everything's gravy, so to speak.

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>>9899200
>Oh yeah? Good job trying to stop me, then.
Dude, I'm not those other guys and I get where you are coming from.

But don't be THAT guy.

>>9899202
Lol okay...

>>9899165
>Most vegans and vegetarians in the West are atheistic. This is why they give it up.

How would atheism lead one to give up meat? I'm sure many secular humanists have good ethical reasons for giving up meat but atheism is simply a lack of belief in God, so I think it's kind of silly to insinuate that atheism logically leads to vegetarianism in anything but a very roundabout way. Maybe God exists or maybe not, but I don't much care for metaphysical questions. I like philosophy, but only the practical side of philosophy: wisdom traditions, the philosophy of how to be happy, etc.

>So would giving up eating animals get in the way of your career goals? I don't get it. Why don't you at least be empathetic where you can?

Given that I barely have any time for leisure, I try to cherish the brief sensual experiences I have. It's not that I don't value morality, I simply structure my life.in such a way that morality sort of fills the gaps. For example, last year I was really busy and working every day including weekends and holidays so I didn't have time to cut my hair and when I finally did cut it for interviews I donated it to locks for love. Another example: I don't plan to marry or have kids, so I plan to donate my money to a foundation to remove landmines from old warzones after I die (after all, my tastes aren't very expensive and I'm only ambitious out of love for my field so I'm accumulating a lot of money just as a byproduct of my work, which is fulfilling in itself.)

So yeah, basically I see morality as something that I do whenever it's convenient but that doesn't mean I'm entirely amoral, it's just like a third-tier value.


>>9899168
This might sound weird but I don't really see happiness as the most important thing in life.

We protect other creatures because humans themselves are lonely creatures. We protect the environment because humans themselves don't want to go extinct. What drives us is simply self-gratification. But I think that's fine, and that's really all there is to it. There's no point in despising humans by human standards. So in the end, it's hypocritical for us to love the Earth without loving ourselves

>>9899213
You grow your own food in the city? How are you managing that?

>I'm actually incredibly empathetic
>Still supports eating animals
Sorry to burst your bubble but you're not empathetic. You're only empathetic enough to care about people. And yes, what don't you get? Don't kill any animals if you don't have to!

>>9898978
I used to work at a health food cafe, we sold proteins vitamins and had some vegan and vegetarian food. We would get tons of vegans and vegetarians and the vegans always looked sickly, gaunt, tired, and slow. I dont consider that healthy and I would never want to be that way and feel absolutely horrible and sad for this one couple who had a baby that they were forcing that lifestyle on.

>>9899249
>You're only empathetic enough to care about people.
Which is what matters to anyone with a brain.

>>9899226
>This might sound weird but I don't really see happiness as the most important thing in life.
Me neither, depending on how you define it.
But the most important thing sure as hell is a lot like happiness. And even more like contentment.
What you are describing sounds like wasted years and a dying bed suggestion to your son that he should spend more time with his family.

But I don't know the details, obviously. You do you.

>>9899249
> vegfags are this fucking delusional

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>>9899249
There are these things called 'windows'. You can grow plants with relative ease using them, even in the city, provided you get descent sunlight, which I do. I only grow herbs, mind you, I have no way of growing my own vegetables.

What's wrong with killing creatures for consumption? If you're going to eat the thing, I don't see the problem, that's one less factory-farmed animal being consumed. Not to mention, certain animals need culling, like boars, so they should be killed at any given opportunity. Webm sort of related, if you find it fun, you should partake.

>>9899141
This

>>9899226
>How would atheism lead one to give up meat?
Noooo, I meant 'give up being a vegetarian.' I said this as a response to your claim that I might give up being a vegetarian. They give up being vegetarians because they are atheistic and nihilistic. They just say fuck it after a while. I am not an atheist or a nihilist.

I don't see how giving up meat is any different than your other moral goals. Sounds like you should just give it up, Anon. You seem like you care enough. If you don't care about happiness then even the taste argument shouldn't work on you! Haha!

>>9898971
> millions are starving in the world
> fucking turbo-moralfags act as if your average Joe commits a crime, by consuming animal products and this is a relevant problem with our society

>>9899278
Ah alright so not enough to actually sustain anything.

Bro I'm not going to explain to you why slaughtering an innocent animal is the wrong thing to do. I really feel like that should be obvious. I don't know what's going on with boars but if they are threatening people's lives then they should be dealt with, if possible, humanely.

>>9899296
>Thinks you can't care about the starving people of the world and animal welfare at the same time
Kek

>>9899310
>Innocent

Animals can't be innocent or guilty because they don't have a conscience.

>>9899252
That's their own fault for not feeding it enough plant protein.

>>9899332
The fact that they are not sentient is exactly WHY they are innocent. They are slaves to their instincts, or so we think.

Shouldn't the fact that our bodies can process meat be proof enough that we were designed to eat meat and, thus, forcing ourselves to not eat meat is unnatural?

>>9899336
And humans are slaves to their desires, what's your point

>>9899329
> implying most of the vegans do

>>9899310
better than buying herbs from the store, does every little bit count, or not?

It's really not obvious; they're lesser lifeforms, they lack sentience, and as such are worth only for what they can provide - for many of them, that would be meat, though for others, sure, companionship or something.

Boars threaten both lives and livelihood. They demolish crops and are a pestilence in many areas. There are bounties on boars in wide swaths of land, so by killing boars you can make money. There are so many it's not possible to be 'humane' when it comes to exterminating them, just like how it's not possible to be humane with locusts. Or do you object to the destruction of locust swarms, too? Here is some boar-culling in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0ss6gCPNs4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89UliEiQQyU

>>9899341
What does
>what's natural
have anything to do with anything?

We have hands that can we can strangle our mothers with. Oop, guess that means we should all go strangle our mothers.

Nice argument Anon.

>>9899346
Uh............. no. We're rational creatures who can abstain from our desires.

>>9899341
Is doesn't imply ought.

>>9899353
Escalating pretty quickly, aren't you?

I mean it's just as arbitrary to stop eating meat as it is arbitrary to stop eating vegetables or fruit. Our body was designed to eat both.

>>9899352
Yeah it is better but not by much. I was just disappointed man, didn't mean anything by it.

They are capable of feeling pain, love, heartbreak, anxiety, etc. That matters enough for me. You're not empathetic enough to care, plain and simple.

First of all, wild boars wouldn't even exist if not for the domesticated pig ffs. Yet another reason. Second of all, who's dying because of these boars? They need to be dealt with, I don't know how (you fuckers who started this problem should figure it out), but wouldn't you say killing them would be bad karma? Seeing as they're a result of us killing pigs in the first place. Whatever, never mind karma, but there's got to be another way.

>>9899365
I am using hyperbole to make a point, genius. And no, it's not just as arbitrary. Read the posts in this thread. Read the pic related. Watch this: http://www.nationearth.com/

>>9899381
I mean, you can pretend you're a good person all you want by saving the lives of some creatures that can't think rationally or affect our society, but it's a bit ridiculous to pretend your effort is anything more than useless. Those lives you're saving are not going change the world in any way. There's a fundamental difference between human and animal lives as >>9899208 stated.

>>9899376
If I could, I'd grow my own vegetables, but I just don't have the space for that. One day, just like one day I'll also keep bees.

You're anthropomorphizing creatures incapable of feeling those things. It's not a matter of empathy in this case, it's a matter of rationality. I'm not empathetic because I'm rational. Most creatures cannot experience any of those things, only the baser instincts - hunger, pain, tiredness, and the corresponding counterparts. You're taking a select few creatures that can be considered to feel those things and extrapolating it well beyond reason.

What are you even talking about? Boars were wild well before the pig was domesticated. Or do you honestly believe the pig evolved or was created by god to be property of man? The boars kill other animals, pets, and people, they're vicious, voracious cretins. Should the pet dog die because an aggressive boar traipsed too close to the house and Fido wanted to protect his family? They do need to be dealt with, and just like a swarm of locusts, you cannot be picky with the means of eradication. That you're bringing karma into a creature on par with an insect, if not worse, is sickening, you completely lack empathy towards your fellow man and to creatures man considers 'friend'. You're blind to your own hypocrisy. If there's another way of eradicating what are massive, pissed off, exponentially more dangerous locust equivalents, let's hear it, because so far you've spewed hypocritical platitudes and accusations while essentially suggesting that god step in and solve the problem by taking all the boars up to heaven or something.

Because animals taste good.

>>9899388
Okay first of all, I never said I was a good person. I've only ever said that being vegan is a good thing to be. There are probably some things that I do that ultimately lead to pain and suffering. If I am aware of them then I will try my best to stop doing those things and to be a better person. But no, I am a part of this material world and therefore am no angel.

Second of all, the world is changing. More and more people are becoming vegetarians and vegans. It changes one by one. And I know that I personally am not doing that much by simply being vegan, that's why I made this thread in the first place...

Thirdly, that post you linked is a fucking joke, that's why no one responded to it. And I don't mean he's trolling, I mean that position he holds is quite possibly the stupidest position I've ever encountered. Of course an animal's life is worth more than a human's simple pleasures like taste and familiarity. Furthermore, giving up meat doesn't even mean you have to give up the former.

But to get back to your point (which, by the way, your last is hardly related to the ones previous), that fundamental difference is sentience, which we have loosely defined first of all, but nevertheless seems to be a difference between us. But that doesn't mean that animals are not capable of feeling pain, love, heartbreak, anxiety, etc. Is that not enough to spare their lives? Don't answer that question. Of course it's enough.

>>9898971
How does it compare to DFW's Consider the Lobster?

Also, >>9898982

>>9899430
>Okay first of all, I never said I was a good person
No, but you're implying moral superiority over every meat eater in this thread. It's quite clear from the tone of your posts.

>More and more people are becoming vegetarians and vegans.
More and more people are also getting depression or changing sex due to mental illness. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Oh, what did you call it, "I am using hyperbole to make a point."

>Of course an animal's life is worth more than a human's simple pleasures like taste and familiarity. Furthermore, giving up meat doesn't even mean you have to give up the former.
On what grounds? Your feelings, I take it? How about a logical reason as to why an inferior creature's life should be in higher regard than your own species' pleasure? You either consider animal lives and human lives equal, or you don't, and if the latter's the case, then you lose any moral grounds to make an argument. The fact that you cannot see this is somewhat troubling.

It does if eating meat is a part of what gives you pleasure in life.

>But that doesn't mean that animals are not capable of feeling pain, love, heartbreak, anxiety, etc. Is that not enough to spare their lives? Don't answer that question. Of course it's enough.
No, that's arbitrary. We cherish human life because every human being has the potential to change our world as we know it. Cherishing human life guarantees our own evolution and survival. Saving animal lives changes nothing for us humans and that is why we should be more preoccupied in saving the ecosystem, the collective (which ensures our own survival, as well) rather than every individual animal.

>>9899418
The animals we kill en masse can all feel the things I've mentioned except for possibly some birds, which can still feel pain and anxiety and have really complex social systems which leads me to believe they are not as simple as they look.

>Boars were wild well before the pig was domesticated.
Have you really not done any research? The wild boar is a descendant of the domesticated pig, which is a different species than what the wild pig was way back in Europe when it evolved from whatever species before it. The domesticated pig was brought over to America, some got loose, and created this whole problem. Now, if there really is no other solution to the boar problem besides killing them, and they really are killing dogs and people, then I would support killing them. Though I would still like it done as humanely as possible. (That is, no torture, etc.)

Many (most?) animals kill and eat other animals.
Humans are animals.
Eating meat is natural.

>>9899476
Complex social systems is irrelevant, you've put ants and bees on a higher ground than cows. Face it, you don't have a leg to stand on here.

The pig returned to its roots, became wild once more. There is no other solution, extermination is the only way, how many times do I have to keep repeating pestilence and mammalian locust before you understand? Am I using the wrong words? They're devastating crops, they kill dogs and other animals, and have attacked and unfortunately killed people. There's a reason there's a bounty on them. There's no humane method of mass extermination which is what's needed here. People will professionally hunt them for a living, that's how bad it's gotten. Now, if you can think of an efficient, humane method of murdering thousands of boars, let me know, but until then it's an any means necessary slaughterhouse, so to speak.

>>9899465
>On what grounds?... You either consider animal lives and human lives equal, or you don't, and if the latter's the case, then you lose any moral grounds to make an argument.
You are the type of person who thinks it's okay to kill all the autistic people because they are dumb.

>More and more people are also getting depression or changing sex due to mental illness. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.
I never used the fact that it's growing more popular as a justification for it being a good thing........ Look at my other posts if you want that justification. Or read the pic related. Or watch this: http://www.nationearth.com/

Dude you can care about the environment and ecosystem and "individual animals" all at the same time, ffs. Not only that, but they go fucking hand in hand. If you want to talk about benefiting people, being a vegan is one of, if not the best thing you can do for the environment, which is obviously directly related to our livelihood.

>>9899485
So? And animals eat their own young sometimes. Should we do that? My dog eats his shit. Should we do that?

You're the one arguing against the status quo, anon. Not me.

I enjoy the way meat tastes

>>9899519
>You are the type of person who thinks it's okay to kill all the autistic people because they are dumb.
No? It's never okay to kill a human being because they're one of ours, the entire point was that we protect our own survival. Nice way to twist my words.

>Dude you can care about the environment and ecosystem and "individual animals" all at the same time, ffs.
Yeah, but it's not necessary. What part of that don't you get?

>>9899531
No you don't, you like the consistency and the seasoning. Go eat meat without seasoning or better yet, eat it raw.

>>9899538
Have you never had sushi or tartare? They are delicious, anon.

And besides that, who are you to tell people what they do and don't like? De gustibus non est disputandum.

>>9899535
You just said that animals are inferior and so they should be killed. Autistic people are inferior, therefore according to your logic, we should kill them. According to your other logical stream, it's okay to kill individual autistic people or otherwise hurt or harm them but only if it's a few every so often, because according to you, the individual doesn't matter. Only the collective.

>We should only do what's absolutely necessary for the survival of the Human species. Any more is completely useless and should not be done.
Can you be any more edgy and autistic? Maybe we should kill you?

>>9899538
>Go eat meat without seasoning
Like our ancestors did?

Vegetables taste like shit anon, deal with it.

Its either blue cheese with wings or go fuck your mother.

>>9899548
>You just said that animals are inferior and so they should be killed
When did I say they "should" be killed? Can you not read? Can you not comprehend the simplest of points? I said we shouldn't put effort into saving animal lives, I didn't say we should kill them indiscriminately because that would affect the ecosystem and, as such, affect us as well. We should kill the animals that contribute to our pleasure and comfort, which is what we've been doing for centuries with the meat and fashion industry.

>Autistic people are inferior, therefore according to your logic, we should kill them
You legitimately cannot read. Autistic people are people, that's the point, they're not inferior. We inherently consider animals inferior (because between having the choice to save a random human and a random cat, you'd 100% choose the human. If you wouldn't, then you have problems), but we don't inherently consider any other human being inferior. I argued that placing the lives of animals above the pleasure of human beings is arbitrary because of this. Providing the human species with the utmost best conditions for its survival, reproduction and evolution is our goal and if that includes killing irrational, inferior animals, that cannot change the world if allowed to live, to provide a large majority of human beings with their daily supply of delicious meat, then so be it.

I don't even think I'm making very complicated points here. I don't understand how you're misinterpreting them so hard.

>the individual doesn't matter. Only the collective.
Individual animals. Jesus Christ, you are dumb. An individual human still has the potential to change our society or world, as I stated numerous times. and that's why we cherish every human life.

>Can you be any more edgy and autistic? Maybe we should kill you?
I think you're the autistic one.

>>9899581
You keep replying as if this is a continuous discussion and not you writing a whole post and then me writing a whole post. It's funny.

>We should kill the animals that contribute to our pleasure and comfort, which is what we've been doing for centuries with the meat and fashion industry.
Okay well if this is your ending point then I've already responded to you. You're simply unempathetic. It's whatever. Can't change you over night.

>Autistic people are people, that's the point, they're not inferior
Autistic people are not inferior to normal people? That's an odd thing to say (because if given the chance to save a normal human and an autistic one you'd 100% choose the normal person). Dude, it's funny. Autistic people are actually probably making things worse for our society if anything. Add to that the fact that they are inferior in a lot of respects and it's quite clear that you should be all for killing them.

You suddenly developed this 'group' aspect to your argument out of nowhere. Explain it to me.

>>9899042
Kek

>>9899671
>Autistic people are not inferior to normal people? That's an odd thing to say (because if given the chance to save a normal human and an autistic one you'd 100% choose the normal person).
Shut your fucking disgusting mouth. How fucking DARE you presume that I am pretentious enough to place any one human life above any other? This is a despicable comment to make and I wonder if you are sound in the head to be making these kinds of assessments.

>You're simply unempathetic. It's whatever.
From the guy claiming groups of human beings are inferior to others, this is very ironic.

>You suddenly developed this 'group' aspect to your argument out of nowhere. Explain it to me
What is there to explain? The species barrier is pretty clear.

>>9899685
What does me claiming that some people are inferior than other have anything to do with empathy? Does me claiming that you're inferior to Michael Phelps at swimming have anything to do with ethics? Just because something is inferior does not mean that it should be killed. That's my entire point. Chill the fuck out. Your entire position leads me to believe that you should be fine with killing autistic people. Everything except that 'group' thing that you threw in at the last second when you realized your position was fucking retarded. Yeah, we shouldn't kill people because we're part of the same 'group'. You realize we're in another group with animals too right? Animal kingdom, Earthling, etc. How about have respect for all living things? Stop being such a cunt, you trying to turn this shit on me is not going to save your soul.

>>9899336
you wouldn't kill a rock...

>>9899700
I know you're trolling but a rock is innocent by the definition. I support that.

>>9899700
but i would download a car

>>9899699
There's a difference between being inferior at one thing and being inherently inferior, which is what you repeatedly try to categorize autistic people as (as evidenced by making the same hypothetical situation I did). Don't try to hide your fucking disgusting behavior and save face now. Don't throw your own psycopathy on to me.

If you had the reading comprehension of even a five year old child, you'd realize that I have been arguing in favor of a fundamental difference between humans and animals since the start, but I'm guessing you're too stupid to get that. You're just being arbitrary yet again with that pointless ramble about groups. Yes, we're in a load of groups with animals, we're also in a load of groups with plants. I've been arguing why this particular "group", as you want to call it, matters more.

It's evident at this point that you have neither the intelligence necessary to understand such a nuanced discussion, seeing as how you idiotically believe this is a black-and-white issue, or enough empathy to connect with your fellow man to understand why our own self-gratification comes first. This discussion is fruitless and as such I won't be continuing it.

>>9899722
>>9899699
You both suck

>>9899722
Define "inherently inferior."

The ad hominem is fucking real. Seriously, you hit hard with that shit. Tone it down. We all do it here but damn, you're on another level.

>>9899722
>This discussion is fruitless and as such I won't be continuing it.
That's because you're on the losing side and you have no hope of winning.

>>9899766
There are no winners on 4chan. Only losers.

>>9899078
>waste is bad becuz i sed so

>>9899146
>WAAAH WHY WONT YOU BEND TO MY EMOTIONAL TOOLS?
Fuck off, humanist.

>>9899787
Go grab a knife and slit a pig's throat. Can't do that? Don't pay someone else to.

>>9899794
I've worked at a farm. I can easily kill any animal without remorse. How about you do some labour work yourself instead of spending your afternoons as armchair philosophist?

>>9899807
You have a demonic nature.

>>9899358
Uh no. We are slaves to to our biology and life inputs, just as much as any organism is. Abstinence is attained through tricking or placating ourselves and habit (discipline), not the power of our rationality.

>>9899823
I don't kill or hurt people

>>9899827
Whichever way you want to put it, we're capable of abstaining, through rationality or determination, and animals aren't. That was my point.

>>9899831
Good for you. Half demonic then, we'll say.

>>9899836
And you're an angel, I'm sure

I don't read 'muh cute animals' propaganda. It's disrespectful to me and the animals.
I'm an oecotheist/anarchotheist, which is a position that does not follow the standard Humanist (mis)interpretation of Scripture. This position instead adores all of creation, but also understands the role of consumption in creation. They are a gift but a gift to be cherished, as is the Earth. In short, it stands against the horrible mistreatment of animals bred as food, and the position of breeding animals for food in general. Unfortunately, unless I go shoot my horse and cook that up, there is no feasible way to do that, the way things are now. For this reason, I have done what I can do and have switched to eating meat from animals raised by local Anabaptists. Sometimes, I have been asked to take part in the slaughtering, which I've never declined. If I am not willing to experience the animal's suffering and death, then I am not worthy of eating it.
I've also begun trying to eat from my own land. So far, I can only manage to do that with onions and potatoes.
>>9899226
You don't like philosophy, nor do you understand it. How does finding God not make one happy?
'morality' isn't morality when it is merely done as a convenience, you are not a moral being.
>>9899794
I actually have done that. It's difficult, but it is something I've done. When I used to hunt, I'd have to do it to surviving elk and deer because I was the only one large enough to weigh it down. I don't eat much pork anyway.

>>9899839
Nope, I am part of the material world and thus not an angel. Don't have a demonic nature, though.

>>9899332
humans probably can't be innocent or guilty either because they probably don't have free will

>>9899252
Are you saying it's impossible to ensure you have enough nutrients or admitting that you're too retarded to add numbers up?

>>9899834
>and animals aren't
We are animals and why aren't other animals able? They can make decisions, adjust their behaviour and resulting habits. Our "rationality" is a facet often overturned, we are not fundamentally different.

>>9899842
Oh, you're a religious nut. That explains it.

>>9899851
*unsheathes trilby*

>>9899841
Interesting position. Why do you view animals as a gift for us to enjoy? Also, how is it worth it for you to kill an animal with your own hands just so you can eat meat if you don't enjoy it? I am confused why you'd go through all the trouble. It's good you're trying to be a better person by going to local farmers, but why not take the next step and abstain fully?

>>9899859
Because I enjoy meat?

>>9899859
>>9899841
"Enjoy it" as in enjoy killing the animal* should have been more clear.

>>9899864
Because I was asked to.

>>9899870
Alright fair enough. Can you answer my first question? I've always wondered why Christians were meat eaters. I think it goes against a lot of Christ's teachings. Maybe not though. Sure seems it from the outside though.

>>9899794
>>9899859
By the way, even Anabaptists don't just slit throats anymore. They shoot it in the head with a rifle, bring it to the ground, and then slit its throat to ensure a quick death. Factory farms apparently do something similar but with an air-compressor and a steel pellet.
>>9899872
See: >>9899076

>>9899336
That would make plants innocent too. Why do you support the killing of innocent plants, anon?

>>9899879
That's the Old Testament. I am wondering about Christ's teachings. To me they seem more against killing animals. Yes I understand Christ is God to a Christian, but can't God's laws change according to what is appropriate for a given time? Perhaps meat eating was permitted for the time leading up to Christ but not afterward? I don't know, I'm not a Christian.

>>9899883
Innocence is not the only reason why I don't want to kill animals. I don't care as much about plants because they cannot feel pain or any of the other emotions that animals can. There are other reasons as well. Environmental ones, probably more that I can't think of.

>>9899889
Nice numbers.
Christ does not abolish anything in the OT. One can be against killing animals and still understand it's necessity.
>but can't God's laws change according to what is appropriate for a given time
Absolutely not.

>>9899898
Alright I won't challenge your faith.

What is necessary about killing animals in this day and age?

>>9899907
They're an important source of food and neglecting that source while also avoiding use of vitamins, protean powder, and so on, is essentially asking to become sickly.

>>9898971
Nah. Going vegetarian and even worse vegan is extremely unhealthy. Meat also tastes good and animals aren't subjects of ethics.

>>9899911
You just don't know what to eat. Also, what's wrong with protein powder and supplements?

>>9899538
As soon as you eat a raw potato.

>>9899921
At least there's not a chance of dying after eating a raw potato.

>>9899918
I do know what to eat, but why would I restrict myself to that? For one, I've already said that I want to eat more from my own garden.
Nothing can grow here in the winter besides GMO wheat (and besides, grains alone aren't enough.)

I can't promote the production or even the existence of protein powder and supplements.

>>9899926
Because you know it's wrong to kill animals...

>I can't promote the production or even the existence of protein powder and supplements.
Huh, why?

>>9899929
It's not wrong, it's unpleasant and wrong in excess.

>>9899930
Okay I hope your justification for that will get you past the gates.

>>9899935
>works

>>9899843
Yes, but they're much more cumbersome to breed for meat.

I don't. And i don't because a vegan diet fixed my erectile dysfunction and makes my shits the highlights of my day

>>9899895
>I don't care as much about plants because they cannot feel pain or any of the other emotions that animals can
How do you know that, anon? Because they have no mouths to scream? Because they cannot twitch and try to break free of your grasp? And you call yourself empathetic...

>>9899924
Anon, there is a chance of dying after breathing air (innocent air, I might add).

>>9899961
Because they don't have nerves or any of the other things required for emotions. Stop being difficult.
>Plants have feelings too!
Nice. Also some plants want to be eaten to spread their seeds. You don't even have to kill a fruit plant to eat it.

>>9898971
I saw Okja and cried at that scene in the factory where they save the baby superpig and all of them reeee'd in unison

but man i still like to eat meat, bacon, burgers, pulled pork, that shit is tasty

I don't think there's going to be anything that can persuade me from meat. I saw that documentary Earthlings narrated by Jaoquin Phoenix which is just animal torture for 90 minutes and even though the things in that film are awful, I can still make some tasty fried chicken.

Don't give me that "meat-eaters don't care about muh animals" shit either. I pet my dog once or twice when he's a good boy.

Motherfucker, we live in an eat or be eaten world.

Do you think the lion would stop to contemplate what his gazelle prey may be feeling and how cruel it must be to eat it? No, you cunt, it just wants to eat.

>>9899252
This.

All the vegans I've seen who claim they get all they need in their diet have been gangly thin twigs of people.

It should also be illegal to force that lifestyle onto an infant. They need specially catered diets, not fucking twigs and branches. Would genuinely smack the fuck out of those two.

>>9899249
> you can't be empathetic if you eat animal

wtf i'm a trump supporter now

i don't. and in the process i significantly improved my autoimmune disease and took the opportunity to closely examine my self and my beliefs, and the process has been enormously difficult and rewarding.

>>9899278

Mmmm I wonder what fresh pork tastes like.

Honestly I would eat Panda bears if I could afford it.

>>9900208
Even I could crush your abnormally thick skull with my bare hands and shove that little pea brain back up your father's dick hole to teach his cross-dressing scatplaying ass about irresponsibly farting out his seeds into 40 year old Mexican whores. Keep eating meat though; it's all that st-st-stuttering mouth's good for other than cleaning HIV off the floor every night like a cumhungry Roomba. Get your proteins, folks! Get your proteins!

>>9900282
you seem a little angry :^)

>>9900282
> this level of fedora reddit-tier edge

Vegans are embarrassing. Go back to /b/, people think this is cool there.

>>9900403
Idiot, I'm from r/vegan and we've been kekking hard at your life for decades now.

>>9900403
sweetie you took the bait

The vegan focus on the killing of animals is misguided. The big ethical problem is the hell that is the short but painful life of a factory farm animal. Killing them is nothing compared to bringing new ones to life.
Some meat eaters keep saying "uhhh but if we stopped meat production cows and pigs would almost go extinct!" Yes retard, the same argument holds for humans if you consider our lives to mainly consist of pain and suffering.
Anti-natalism is the strongest expression of farm animal ethics.

>>9900518
this post needs to be turned into a book asap

>>9899418
>You're anthropomorphizing creatures incapable of feeling those things
He thinks animals can't feel pain, anxiety, and affection. Topkek. What century are we talking about here? Did Descartes just drop his newest book?

>>9899189
>meat has no taste
Jesus Christ is what vetards actually believe?

>>9901255
Go slice a pig's throat and start devouring its flesh on the spot. Tell me if it tastes good.

>>9901275
Ethical considerations in that I'm not killing my own food aside (which I don't care about nor lose sleep over), what is that supposed to prove? Because it requires preparation it is inherently not moral? Eating the individual agreements of a cake does not taste good but the final product does. Should I never eat bread again because I don't want to eat raw wheat cut right from the field?

>>9901305
No it's supposed to prove that eating meat is not "natural." We have to do many things with it for us to even eat it. Then we have to season it for it to be enjoyable. Vegetables we can just eat right off the ground. Much more natural, wouldn't you say?

I eat meat but you're deluding yourself if you don't have sympathy for animals. Either you on some level do but hide it from yourself because of cognitive dissonance because you like to eat animals, or you've just never thought about it or have certain parts of your emotions undeveloped. People being so cynical about how animals don't have the same feelings we do, I implore you, go and capture a wild animal such a boar or a raccoon or a pigeon and torture it.

>>9901318
So by that logic, tofu, tempeh and seitan are all unnatural.
Also, in general and for the purposes of this debate, 'meat needs to be seasoned to be enjoyed' is a bit silly and can just as easily be applied to vegetables

>>9901336
Yes, exactly! They are not natural lmfao good job you're really comprehending now.

Really, ever had an apple? What are you putting on your apples to make them taste better, you glutton?

>>9901344
At last I truly see. So this is the power of vegetarianism

>>9901356
Well I am vegan so.

>>9898971
Because i enjoy it.

>>9901370
I can tell, the lack of animal proteins has made you quite a brainlet

>>9901388
>Some meat eaters genuinely believe shit like this

>>9901318
>because raw pork does not taste good to a human who's lived off and grown accustomed to foods filled with sugar and spice it does not taste good and is unnatural
>we don't have canines and are unable to synthesize proteins found in meat
Lay off the sweets veganfag

>>9901388
>muh protein
It is incredibly easy to get enough protein in your diet (whole grains, beans, nuts, dark grains, and etc.). Where are you getting the rest of your required vitamins and nutrients everyday?

Oh wait, you probably get about 150% of the protein and carbs you need, and 10% of the other nutrients you need everyday, like most Americans and Europeans.

>>9899296
Not eating meat is a way of combatting world hunger.

>It takes 2,500 gallons of water, 12 pounds of grain, 35 pounds of topsoil and the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline to produce one pound of feedlot beef.
From: http://www.earthsave.org/environment.htm

That grain is perfectly edible for humans. Why not cut out the wasteful middleman?

>>9901394
It's a test from God you dingus. He's given us two food groups. One where we have to be merciless and kill an innocent animal and another where we just have to pick up something off of the ground. One is unnatural and cannot be eaten in its natural form. The other is easily eaten in it's natural form and does not require any heinous behavior. Good luck explaining to God why you chose to kill an animal instead of simply eating veggies & the like.

>>9901395
*dark greens

>>9901397
This is a terrible argument, and I am a vegetarian. The Bible clearly indicates humans are allowed to eat meat.

>>9901397
>design something to be physically built for hunting
>haha no ur supposed to eat all those rift valley vegetables!
Also
>implying most plants are able to be eaten in their original form
Do you even know what agriculture is?

>>9901403
The Christian religion is meant for a lower spiritual age, which we are only now coming out of. It is meant for a time where not only would people be adverse to giving it up (and therefore would not convert), but also at a time where people had a difficult time getting food in some cases and famine & food shortages were real issues. Today we live in a more spiritual age (though only just) and we have an ample supply of food in the first world. God clearly does not want us to eat meat. Stop being stupid.

>>9901407
>God, the all merciful and ethical and good wants us to slaughter animals.
Ok bud lmfao.

>>9901414
b8

>>9901410
>Today we live in a more spiritual age
Your source for this? This is statistically the most irreligious time period in history.
>b-but religion and spirituality aren't the same
They are functionally.

>>9899249
should i sign you up for a psych ward? whats your adress poor being?

>>9901255
unfortunately yes

>>9901468
You answered your own question.
>They are functionally
No, they're not. Not at all. Religion has two aspects to it. The spiritual and the political.

Abrahamic religions were meant for a lower spiritual age, they force people to be spiritual. God knew that people couldn't do it on their own. But today, people have less shit to worry about- our lives are much easier, which means we have more time to be spiritual. We can take it upon ourselves.

>>9899208
you do understand that many animals and animal races are going to be extinct if no meat production would ensure it's population?

>>9899296
Veganism requires less resources than carnism. We haven't started eating meat on a regular basis until relatively recently because of how expensive it is.

>>9901484
>Keep these species alive so we can keep committing genocide against them!
This position is so fucking stupid. Do you realize that they are man made species in the first place?

>>9899310
what about the other innocent lifeforms on this earth? insects? plants, which are afterall lifeforms, too?

>>9898971
I literally don't give a fuck if they suffer.
That's how.

>>9901513
I have addressed this like a billion times. Plants do not feel pain or emotion......... Some even want to be eaten and do not die when we do so, like fruits.

>>9901479
Groundless conjecture. More people are atheists than ever before in the world, and spirituality is all but outright rejected by the sciences and humanities academically.

>We can take it upon ourselves.
That doesn't mean people are, in fact there is strong evidence to prove otherwise.

>>9901526
People are adopting more spiritual practices all the time and the world is becoming more ethical and humane.

>>9901514
This
Vegans are fags

If it makes me feel good I do it, end of story

Now fuck off and go back to stuffing a vegan sausage up your ass before I kick the shit out of you you little dick soy boy
I bet all that soy makes you like to wear panties too

>>9899973
do you even science? what is the cherry tree going to do if you stab it? nothing? it's leaking resin to protect itself -- what creeps me out is how much ppl from /ck/ and whereever have no knowlege of organisms in all its forms

just because it doesn't have blood doesn't mean it can't feel, there are other ways nature provides lifeforms to exist, read a paper once in a while instead of books

>>9899938
hahaha

>>9901532
I could kick your ass.

>>9901533
Don't stab a tree like a retard then.

>>9901529
>the world is becoming more ethical and humane.
This is because of science and rationalism, not spirtuality.
>People are adopting more spiritual practices all the time
Who? What practices? The world I see seems to be drastically secularizing itself. The statistics are very clear about this. Just because a bunch of your dorm mates are Rastas and Zen Buddhists, doesn't mean that's the direction the world is heading.

>>9901533
>Unironically thinking plants feel the same shit animals do.

>>9901553
They are spiritual beings engaging in science.

Practices such as being vegan, helping others, etc. But like I said we're still in a low spiritual age, we're still dirty materialists and will be for a few thousand years more. Don't mistake a religious practice for a spiritual one.

>>9901543
>protein deficient weakling with carb gut thinks he can beat up anyone
Lmao

>>9901597
>Protein deficient

I get 65g of protein a day minimum.

>>9898971
If earthlings didn't change my mind at all will this do anything?

>>9901723
Op here. Probably not desu. You're doomed.

>>9901742
Shit. I am a sociopath or something?

I just do not see animal suffering as bad. At least when they suffer for a purpose.

>>9901761
*am I a sociopath

>>9901761
Yeah you're a sociopath if you can go out and torture an animal with your own hands. Letting others do it for you is usually just ignorance but if you know it's going on and you don't care then you're just unempathetic. It's unfortunate. Maybe you'll change at some point. Idk.

>>9899485
This
I am an animal that eats other animals.
>>9899520
>animals eat their own young sometimes. Should we do that? My dog eats his shit. Should we do that?
I would if it were delicious.

>>9901797
Edgy bro.

>>9901797
>I would if it were delicious.
I have some strychnine-laced chai powder. Would you like to try some?

>>9901761
I feel empathy for animals kept in shitty conditions but when methods are relatively humane I'm indifferent I would say. Vice had a special about the cattle slaughtering industry in Brazil and while it wasn't too heavy handed (Vice is surprisingly pretty good in this aspect) there was a subtle emphasis on it still horrific. I think the presenter said something like "this is your modern meat industry" and it was supposed to be bad (maybe it's just my autism inferring that and she was actually being neutral), but I didn't think it was that bad at all. The cattle were killed instantly, etc.
Things used to be much worse and people seem to discard that fact by countering that things aren't perfect today. But hey progress is progress I guess

>>9901819
>Things used to be much worse
When are you referring to? Before factory farms things were much better. It wasn't a genocide then.

>>9901816
>>9901809
Sorry
When I said 'delicious' I was condensing the idea that these behaviors (shit eating, child cannibalism) are performed by animals under certain situations that cause them no immediate or long lasting (as far as they know) ill effects, into a single word. I assumed anyone that brought up shit eating in the first place would understand the vaguely absurd reduction but maybe not.
Eating animal meat that's been killed and prepared by others of my species has almost no discernible ill effects on me and provides convenient necessary protein in a single source. It tastes good.
This is delicious animal behavior. Eating babies and shit is not delicious animal behavior.

>>9901833
I guess my vision of "worse" refers to late 19th century/early 20th century stockyards such as Chicago.

Perhaps I'm just naive and the system hasn't changed much since then except the consumer is more out of touch with it

>>9901844
>Animals do it so we should too!
>Yeah, but animals eat their poop and their young
>Wait only do the things that animals do that are delicious. Oh by the way, I have some weird definition of the word, "delicious" that you should know about
Okay.

>>9901853
Well I am not familiar with those conditions but I know the conditions today are fucking horrible and there are waaaaaay more animals being killed today. Billions of them every year.

>>9901819
That's because you're a sociopath. I can't wait to read about you in the paper.

>>9901868
>his definition of sociopathy is anyone who eats meat and is aware of where it comes from
Really makes me think

Not only is meat-eating detrimental to karma, but it degrades your mindset. Meat is considered to be tamas, or in the material mode of darkness, and conditions the mind to be lethargic, negative, depressed, and fearful. A strict vegetarian diet is said to be Sattvic, or in the material mode if goodness, and conditions the mind to be joyful, harmonious, balanced, and peaceful.

>>9901875
If you fully understand the weight of the issue and you still eat meat then you're a sociopath. That or incredibly lazy and unmotivated. Neither are good personality traits.

>>9901880
/thread

>>9901883
Understood.
So in your view the large majority of society is sociopathic, and large parts of culture (BBQ festivals, hot dogs at the ball game, etc.) are rooted in sociopathic tendencies?

>>9901875
You are indifferent to the suffering of others and have a deep seated desire to kill. You have dreams about torture, cannibalism and rape where you are elevated through your deeds to the level of a god. You are a killer, a cannibal, and the closest thing to pure evil I have ever seen.

>>9901895
No, because most people do not understand the full weight of the issue. Most people have been brainwashed.

>>9899252
>>9900208
These 2. I see many unhealthy vegans, and my younger sister is often sick and misses many days of work (vegan ofc). Even lost a job once for taking too many days off. I have never taken a sick day in my work life (and very few back in school many years ago)

>>9902011
These people do not know how to properly be vegans.

>>9899519
Being vegan is good for the environment because it kills humans.

>>9902062
Is this the same meme as when people claim [insert failed socialist state here] wasn't communism?

File: IMG_20170804_143734.jpg (2MB, 3036x4048px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3036x4048px

>>9899716
Hue
>>9902062
vegans don't know how to properly be humans

>>9898971
i don't care about other people, why would i care as something as stupid and worthless as animal?

>>9902099
are you too stupid to understand the mindbending concept of eating enough protein and other nutrients to equal or exceed what you would get from meat?

>>9902177
It has nothing to do with me, I was referencing the anecdotal experiences of the person I replied to who noticed under-nourished vegans

>>9901397
Raw meat can be eaten, though. Stop baiting, proddy.

>tfw too intelligent for vegetarianism/veganism

>>9902146
>no dogger helmet
hmm

>>9901529
Ethics and humanities are not 'spiritual', they're filthy materialisms.
>>9901553
Science and rationalism (you don't know what this word means btw) are actually unethical and inhumane. They're somehow worse than filthy materialisms.

>>9901638
From powder lmao
>>9901880
Buddhism is for idiots
>>9901883
Fuck off, moralizing faggo.

I have let vegan acquaintances use the toilet in my house and suffered the consequences one too many times to ever want to stop eating animal products and meat.

>>9902552
That's not Buddhist thought, it's Vedic

Additionally it's not a question of belief, it's simply dharma, or universal law. You can believe gravity does not exist and act accordingly, but nature will carry on regardless as that is the dharma. Likewise, you can believe that continuing meat eating will not be detrimental, but that does not mean your mental state will not deteriorate for doing so.

>>9902610
>vedic
Same Orientalist nonsense.
There is no 'universal law' faggo. Stop stroking your ego.

>>9902627
Everywhere in nature we see the principle of laws at work, therefore how can they be denied? Nature is governed by laws from gravity to the law of birth and death.

>>9902649
>if i babble on about 'muh law' like a smelly orientalist then maybe itll be true!!
Nobody cares, Pagan. Go shit on the street.

>>9902664
Based

>>9902536
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA he says it's not spiritual to respect animals and be an ethical person kekekekekekek it's probably the biggest sign of being a spiritual person.

>>9902664
Fuck off Christfag. You don't even follow your own swami you shitty person.

>>9898971

I understand the moral argument for Veganism and I actually agree with it to some degree. But I do love me a good steak.

Unless our consumption rate puts any given species in danger of extinction, why should I care about the well-being of any species other than mine? Apart from some domesticated animals, they don't afford me the same respect

Because tasty.
Also, nutrition.
If a million animals had to die to relieve an itch, I'd do it.

>>9902676
No, it's the biggest sign of being a pseud like the Orientalist here.
>>9902681
Go back to /r/eddit, Orientalist.
Why do you assume so?

>>9902705
>more worried about species than the welfare of individuals.
Kek

>>9902730
Okay you clearly have no spiritual knowledge. Why do I assume so? Because Christ's teachings lend more credence to veganism than meat eating.

>>9902758
Wrong. A Pagan cannot understand Christ, sorry!
Go be an egomaniac elsewhere; no one here cares about you or is going to feed your Orientalist memes.

>>9902867
I was born a Christian and know Him very well. I respect Christ very much. Shut your mouth heathen.

>>9902884
No you weren't and no you don't. You pervert the Logos to fit your New Age nonsense that you learned about at a yarn swapmeet from a gentrified old crone with a rich husband.

>>9902890
Was born in the US with German and English ancestors, Protestant (Methodist) on my mother's side, Catholic on my father's. Went to a Methodist church for ~15 years and attended Sunday school until like 6th grade or so. Mom held Bible study in our house until my brother left for school when I was a junior in HS. I know about Christ, I know his message.

>>9903144
>mom is a UMC pastor
>on the conservative side of the incoming schism
I've tried to tell her that in a lot of ways having a female pastor is almost as crazy as marrying gays but she doesn't see it

>>9899844
do you really believe that "protein is just protein"? lmfao, do you really think that creatures (not even humans) that evolved for billions of years to eat other animals and only eat other animals can live well on a diet of "complete proteins" with all BCAA's and every microvariation of protein we know of?

>>9903144
Still not born Christian. You know nothing.

>>9903190
Tears are literally streaming down my face as me and all of my friends are laughing at you and your family.

>>9901638
Power to you. I get 69 grams/day. 64% of which comes from rice and beans.

File: Osamu_dazai_19480619.jpg (26KB, 290x227px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 290x227px

I gotta say, all this opposition really fucking triggers me. Granted, I'm vegan, but I just don't get all these incoherent self-defeated thoughts trying to flimsily counter-argue something this established, as if most haven't been proven fallacious time and time again, as if the ones that aren't fallacious aren't still wrong by consequence of the standards that most profess to follow. Even when I wasn't vegan, ever since I encountered the idea of vegetarianism/veganism, I never though "what silly nonsense!", always, every time, it made complete sense (worth mentioning, it took me years to convert) - everyone on earth agrees that purposely damaging others is bad (awful, even), to the point were even scenarios like "but would you torture the man who killed your mother to death?" are contentious among many. This is because everyone understands the purely biological factor of: everyone suffers, so let's strive to avoid it as far as we can. And in the case of consuming animal products, we all can - third world, first world, lots of money, unemployed, fat cunt, skinny kid. Look, if you're reading this, if you're alive in 2017, chances is there's something substantial you can do about it.

Justifying all this shit really is just proof of how bound people are to traditions. Even the greatest minds, I see partaking in this moronic ritual. You have all the reasons against it - ethical, environmental, health, but somehow they're never enough. All those books that you read, for nothing. Bunch of fucking nonsense. Daddy and mommy did it, so big fucko will swallow the cum accordingly. Fantastic.

>>9903999
>everyone on earth agrees that purposely damaging others is bad (awful, even)
False. Stop baiting with your lame memes.
>ethical, environmental, health
Not reasons against.
You are the one who adores tradition here, tool. Yet you are blind to it.

morality is a spook

>>9903999
>everyone on earth agrees that purposely damaging others is bad
Untrue. Only hurting the innocent is bad.
For example, I would gladly torture this guy >>9904071 to death for my own enjoyment and the net benefit of everyone. In his case, skinning him alive then slowly feeding his own body parts to him, starting with the limbs, until there is nothing left would be fitting treatment I think.

>>9904404
HAHA LE EPIC MEME XDDD
Go cry, vegan.