just finished the communist manifesto for the first time

>>9898620
Human nature doesn't exist.

>>9898626
Yes it does

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>this triggers the leftypol cucks

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>>9898634
Why do they all look like the "my feet hurt" meme?

>>9898633
not the vague abstraction peddled about
inherent biology exists, and experience that further shapes it. Speaking of it in a universal or static fashion, or of flavour-of-the-generation cultural facets as the nature of a species, is pure retardation.

>>9898626
>tfw marxists deny the reality of the human species being
>tfw marxists skip the early marx

>>9898626

Marx is for Gemeinwesen and authentic community. right wingers think humanity is only fit for serving capital. remember' 'From each according to his ability to each according to his need''. Marx thought the liberal notion of equality was merely a projection of the commodity form on to humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_human_nature


Also read this.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/camatte/wanhum/wanhum01.htm

>>9898620

all of this is possible with genetic engineering

>>9898620
it's pretty shit, it amounts to
>pls be a mindless ideologue, k thx

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>>9898620
So communism works, but it's just so far ahead of its time that it requires genetic engineering?

>>9898626
of course it exists, unless you believe in something supernatural like god or soul

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>>9898645
>>9898648
beat you to it hehehehehe

>>9898620
wtf is that pic??

>>9898705
You can believe in God and the soul and still believe in human nature.
You can believe we have free will, just weak willpower

>>9898759
Karl Marx's first comic strip

Who's more of a cunt, Karl Marx or Thomas Carlyle?

Which side has the most despicable writers, left Hegelians (marxists) or right hegelians (fascists, conservatives etc)?

>>9898620
>food analogies
every
single
time

>>9898799
yeah, but i don't think you can be materialist and believe theres no human nature... in fact, its the only thing there is

>>9898881
Marx btfo'd left hegelians, stirner memers, vulgar materialists, idealists and discourse wanking pomofags in the german ideology. his shitposting prowess is often underestimated.

>The entire body of German philosophical criticism from Strauss to Stirner is confined to criticism of religious conceptions.claiming to be the absolute redeemer of the world from all evil. Religion was continually regarded and treated as the arch-enemy, as the ultimate cause of all relations repugnant to these philosophers. The critics started from real religion and actual theology. What religious consciousness and a religious conception really meant was determined variously as they went along. Their advance consisted in subsuming the allegedly dominant metaphysical, political, juridical, moral and other conceptions under the class of religious or theological conceptions; and similarly in pronouncing political, juridical, moral consciousness as religious or theological, and the political, juridical, moral man – “man” in the last resort – as religious. The dominance of religion was taken for granted. Gradually every dominant relationship was pronounced a religious relationship and transformed into a cult, a cult of law, a cult of the State, etc. On all sides it was only a question of dogmas and belief in dogmas. The world was sanctified to an ever-increasing extent till at last our venerable Saint Max was able to canonise it en bloc and thus dispose of it once for all.

>Since the Young Hegelians consider conceptions, thoughts, ideas, in fact all the products of consciousness, to which they attribute an independent existence, as the real chains of men (just as the Old Hegelians declared them the true bonds of human society) it is evident that the Young Hegelians have to fight only against these illusions of consciousness. Since, according to their fantasy, the relationships of men, all their doings, their chains and their limitations are products of their consciousness, the Young Hegelians logically put to men the moral postulate of exchanging their present consciousness for human, critical or egoistic consciousness, and thus of removing their limitations. This demand to change consciousness amounts to a demand to interpret reality in another way, i.e. to recognise it by means of another interpretation. The Young-Hegelian ideologists, in spite of their allegedly “world-shattering" statements, are the staunchest conservatives. The most recent of them have found the correct expression for their activity when they declare they are only fighting against “phrases.” They forget, however, that to these phrases they themselves are only opposing other phrases, and that they are in no way combating the real existing world when they are merely combating the phrases of this world.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch01a.htm

>>9898895
okay Hume

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What if human nature is a learned behavior?

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>>9898917
woops wrong bat-slap

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>>9898626
>Dude just stop being schizophrenic
>Biology doesn't effect behavior
Wtf i love communism now

>>9898634
A bunch of college kids larping as workers isn't going to trigger me.

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>>9898944
what about THIS? I supposes you are all for indoctrinating children whit 'queer theory' and gender ideology like a good leftist.

>>9898977
i dont give a fuck about children

>>9898944
what do you say to the fact that the poor overwhelmingly hate you and voted for trump and that effete college students are the only people who think communism is a good thing?

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>>9898620
Did you like it? Are you a communist now?

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>>9898987
>this is the future the pedo left wants for our children.


Germany's left has its own tales of abuse. One of the goals of the German 1968 movement was the sexual liberation of children. For some, this meant overcoming all sexual inhibitions, creating a climate in which even pedophilia was considered progressive.


>http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-sexual-revolution-and-children-how-the-left-took-things-too-far-a-702679.html

>>9898997
why should i care for some little shits that only know to how to waste resource and being annoying? fuck children, fuck breeders

>>9899002
>fuck children,
that's exactly what im talking about, the so called 'lgbt community' is a marxist front group obsessed with legalising pedophilia.

>>9898977
No, I'm against identity politics.
>>9898988
This is the fault of liberals and identity politics. The majority of "communist" groups are controlled by capitalists such as Soros. The poor and working class were at the mercy of liberal news corporations, and I'm going to assume you know how they covered the election.

>>9898997
What the fuck. What show is this?

>>9898633
No it doesn't. That's a meme.
>>9898645
I'm not a Marxist
>>9898648
Why is that relevant? Human nature does not exist; Marx was wrong -- these two statements are not mutually exclusive.
>>9898705
No it doesn't.
>>9898935
Schizophrenia is not biological because 'biology' does not exist, there is no Bios.

>>9899091
I see so since they're too dumb to know whats good for them you should decide their fate. kinda like the bourgeois do for them now you would be there new masters?

>>9899118
The Mick, featuring Dee from Always Sunny. The bitchy Jewish-Italian chick with the DFC is pretty hot

>>9899145

Schizophrenia is caused by both genetic(mostly) and environmental factors. And what do you mean by "'biology' does not exist"?

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>>9899091
>The majority of
All. All Communists are, and have always been, a tool of elite groups or criminals to seize power, and they have never existed in any other meaningful capacity.

Your error is assuming that what you believe is in any way revolutionary. Marx was not a revolutionary, he was a useful idiot, which is why there are twenty million Marxists and a few hundred followers of Bakunin. Maybe Kropotkin has five or six.

>Okay guys, if we just form this Socialist state where the party rules and then it will definitely give away all its power and then we'll have a classless stateless society!

Or, OR, you could just create a classless stateless society. The worst part of this is that the so-called dialectic predicted this--but this was obviously NEVER going to happen. A government giving up power? When!? When ever has this happened, name me a single time! No, Marx was an imbecile, and Bakunin was right to call him a Jew, which I suppose at the time was code for "either a total retard or a disingenuous asshole," because it has to have been one or the other. Nobody who lived in the 19th century except a TOTAL FOOL could believe that a state would ever, EVER wither over time instead of growing like a perfidious weed.

>>9899011
kek

>>9899654
Genetics and environment do not exist. Stop shitposting your lame old memes.

>>9898634
>Women are at least 5/10
>Men are, at max, 3/10
It's like every subculture ever.

>>9899661
-A man who only knows western history

Why are leftists much more open to actual discussion compared to edgy /pol/tards who just call you a leftist when you disagree with them?

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>>9899809
They don't read so they have nothing to say.

>>9898620
Great pic. Funny book.

>>9898620
Brilliant.

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>>9899809
>constructs a strawman about how people with opposing opinions aren't willing to argue
huh...

>>9898694
You wanted an apple, from an orange, but you've created neither an apple, nor an orange, but an orange-apple. A mutant.

>>9898648
>right wingers think humanity is only fit for serving capital
What if there is something else than materialism?
What is the religious right?
You are dumb!

>>9898633

If it did it would be entirely dependent on the environmental factors around whomever you're talking about.

It'd be like saying's human nature to work for a lord because feudalism exists.

>>9899809

I've never done that to anyone. It really hurts my feeling that you would make insinuations like this.

>>9899809
That's funny, /pol/ was asking the same thing.

>>9899809
There is nothing left to debate. After the years of humiliation and long study of theory, statistics and anecdotes there is nothing left to discuss. We want the civil war and we will simply kill our enemies or die trying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2apNz6K0x0
Good summary of the /pol/ mind in the [current year]

>>9898988
Middle class white people who LARP as blue collar folks voted for Trump you binch.

>>9900881
>Middle class white people who LARP as blue collar folks
So basically every who isn't a inner-city yuppie.

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>>9900888
>Why aren't I 50 points ahead

Hey guys if you're ever thinking about picking a new political ideology just do a quick check and make sure it's not popular among middle upper class college students who have never worked a day in their lives.

>>9900899
That's a lot of empty space you got there.

>>9900903
So what are the hip and acceptable political ideology I should watch out for this season?

>>9900899
Trump is now less popular than Bush near the end of his term. Half the country didn't vote, including most white poors.

>>9900907
This season we're keeping a close eye on some revision of Burke's ideology, we're recommending you pick up your latest copy of Reflections on the Revolutions in France and immediately build an identity around it.

>>9900917
>If we convince people who don't vote to vote we'll win
Said every plucky upstart Socialist ever.

>>9900917
>push polls are honest we swear
Yeah keep polling blue counties and let me know how popular he is. Something tells me I won't even be a little surprised at the answer.

>>9900907

Guide to political ideologies summer 2017

>Trending Down
Alt Right
Natsoc
Neoliberalism
Intersectional feminism
Libertarianism
Anarcho Capitalism

>Trending Up
Straussian Neocons
Traditionalist Catholicism
Bookchinism/Communalism
Jacobin style grad school 'socialism'
Permaculture
Nouvelle Droite
Communisation

>>9900974
>Alt Right
>Trending Down
I don't know, after yesterday Trump might have just relit the fire.

>>9900974
I know Catholicism is among the oldest and most accepted, but I just can't accepg that they venerate Mary. (Well, that and the implant """Pope""".)

Which is the most true to the teachings of Jesus and his followers? Wouldn't a John the Baptist-esque approach be the more prototypical form of Christian fellowship?

>>9900333
>You wanted an apple, from an orange
Fucking read more carefully next time, it was the other way around. The comic even had pictures, I don't see how you could mess that up.

>>9901037
>Which is the most true to the teachings of Jesus and his followers? Wouldn't a John the Baptist-esque approach be the more prototypical form of Christian fellowship?

You know the early leaders of the Catholic Church personally met the apostles right?

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>>9900981
there's low support in general for the alt right, even among Trump voters, who are by and large just boomers. They'd have to rebrand and get rid of the current batch of clowns ie. Spencer, that Alaska guy.

>>9901092
It isn't really about popularity though; If it was we would see Socialism making headway but it isn't, In fact the opposite is happening in Europe. Its about influence and how it's wielded and the alt-right wield is very efficiently, they subtly normalize their agenda, one of the best examples is the response of "We Wuz Kangz" to Assassin's Creed: Origins, the livestream was filled with tens of thousands of normie people spamming it.

>>9898917
WHERE DID IT BEGIN? If it is learned what is the spark that created something from nothing?

>>9898917
when leftists say 'human nature is a social construct' they actually mean all 'social constructs' ie. all time tested traditions, are evil and we should indulge in retarded and ideologically motivated social engineering. Notice how the family, gender and religion are assumed to be social constructs but homosexuals and transgenderists are born that way, and thus morally pure and politically correct.

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>>9901130
this meme illustrates leftist beliefs

>>9901130
Isn't that the hypocrisy of the gender spectrum? One will say that gender is a social construct but at the same time state they are born as an X in a Y body, contradicting the previous statement. I think most people have a very shallow grasp on structuralism.

>>9899809
Go on /pol and then go to /leftypol/. Think of them what you want but they talk actually discuss theory and books while /pol/ is a reactonary cesspool.

>>9901141
transgenderism is a fundamentally political movement bent on undermining society through bait and switch tactics. at one moment, they will say they were 'born that way' and at the other they will denounce gender as a social construct that needs to be abolished starting in preschool.

>>9898648
>'From each according to his ability to each according to his need''
what is exactly the meaning of this?.
<ability
giving to someone in accordance to his ability is not give free way to hierarchy and inequality?.
>needs
needs is something so vague that you can put it at the mínimum ( i need wáter in order to live) or to the máximum (everyone need a university degree and a Golden Cadillac, or whatever).

i dont understand so a shitty remark can survive the time. anyway, i dont understand it very well. someone can explain?

>>9898901
>and that they are in no way combating the real existing world
he is so butthurted he even think what he wrote

hey, im talking about r3al WWorld not about phrases.

>>9900974
Decent list, however, I can see a slow down in NatSoc posting but it will begin to rise again fairly quickly. Neo-liberalism will never die.

Modern wagecucks are the same ones who defended feudalism and slavery back in the day. Capitalism has the same built-in contradictions as previous systems and will promptly fail.

>>9898620
>>9898894
>Imagine being so fat you look at communism and see food

>>9901559
And what will replace it?

>>9901591
Hopefully socialism

>>9898917
>what if chimpanzee nature is a learned behavior, learned by predescent monkeys
>what if a strawberry plant nature is genetically imprented by a strawberry plant, that it derived from
>really fires up the neurones

>>9898620

Dirty bourgeoisie exploiting the labor of the earth, sun, and soil to produce the orange tree!

>>9901559
>previous
implying the future systems will flourish and propagate in absence of contradictions.

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>>9901617
You're going to be disappointed.

>>9898644
>inherent biology

What does this mean?

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>>9899145
>Schizophrenia is not biological because 'biology' does not exist, there is no Bios.
*There is, schizophrenia is almost 100% genetic
>Dude just stop having epilepsy
>Bruh just like turn your blindness off and turn your eyesight on
>Jesus m8, just stop being gay

>>9901130
>time tested traditions

Capitalism is the force subsuming and castrating "time tested traditions." Global capitalism has steamrolled over religion, nation, the family. Everything has been sublimated into an image or symbol that can be commodified.

>retarded and ideologically motivated social engineering.

Leftism is a move away from social engineering. It is the politics of the revolutionary attitude in which people can work toward a libertarian society.

>Notice how the family, gender and religion are assumed to be social constructs but homosexuals and transgenderists are born that way, and thus morally pure and politically correct.

"Transgenderists"? Please try at least to get your buzzwords right. I can literally hear your brain rattling around like angry walnut meat inside its shell. Homosexual people are certainly born with homosexual desire. The western family model and western religions are proven to be socially imposed by peoples such as the Trobriand Islanders who fostered a society devoid of the neuroses which are ubiquitous in the capitalist west.

>politically correct.

Wtf? Where do you read this stuff? This sounds like a stroked-out Sean Hannity.

>>9901156
>political movement bent on undermining society

To what end?

>>9900917
>>9900881
>the poor love us even though I have never met anyone who isn't an upper middle class elite like myself and I can't produce any data to back it up I know it to be true I know it to be true

>>9901633
you fool, communism will work flawlessly and be utterly without contradictions as soon as it is correctly applied.

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So I've been reading some short works before diving into Capital, I've finished Principles of Communism and Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.

Now I plan to go over Value, Price and Profit as well as Wage, Labour and Capital. Anything else I should read first?

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Reminder

>>9901970
>Capitalism is the force subsuming and castrating "time tested traditions."
there is no time tested traditions. every ideology redifine the concepts and traditions.

>Leftism is a move away from social engineering.
social engineering is necessary to:
>people can work toward a libertarian society

>Homosexual people are certainly born with homosexual desire.
some people develop homosexuality with time. it´s not one or another.

>>9902043
This but unironically.

>>9902043
I bet Reagan never picked up one of Lenin's books. He would have probably agreed with everything in "Materialism and Empiriocriticism."

>>9901143
what are you stupid? look at the post rate of pol and the post rate of leftypol

go to any of the smaller rightwing boards and you will find the same thing, discussion.

>>9902208
>what are you stupid?
well he is a communist so that goes without saying

>>9902043
Un bon mot ne prouve rien.

>>9902165
I bet reagan and every other president you dismiss is a little bit smarter and well-read than you give them credit for, if I had to guess, they are orders of magnitude smarter and well-read than you and that's why you think they are dumb, because our ability to model the internal experience of others in order to predict behavior totally fails when they are more intelligent than you, and the only explanation you have is that they are so dumb and so unconscious as to not be capable of prediction as their behavior is mostly random, or that you simply haven't invested enough time to understand them, but the conclusion that you cannot predict their behavior because you lack some fundamental capacity of thought which they possess is unfathomable because you could not possibly imagine what a mental capacity which you lack and others possess would even look like, you only know such a thing by analogy to others, you to a retard for example, you can see how they have no idea what they are fundamentally lacking.

they know they are less intelligent only because outcome makes it clear that they don't understand behavior as well as others (they generally fail what they attempt) and because every person they ever encounter who beats them in the game let's them know why they lost, but it seems like that never happened to you

>>9902208
>pol
Way to show your faggotry.

>>9902236
sorry, i am not devoted to your ethiopian fish for sale market and have not educated myself on your behavior patterns

>>9902248
Everybody outside of my mongolian singing training center is inherently wrong.

>>9898620
If you made that picture based on your understanding of the text, I'd suggest reading it again, because something went wrong the fist time.

>>9901971
Not even the leftists know. These people are mentally ill, don't expect anything resembling logical thinking from them.

>>9901970
We should replace the nuclear family with polyamorous transgender communes. Even though theses people have mental illness rate100x the general population. We must yield to the noble wisdom of the oppressed and Stone Age islanders

>>9902234
>they are orders of magnitude smarter and well-read than you
I doubt that. I'm pretty well read.

>>9902289
>We must yield to the noble wisdom of the oppressed and Stone Age islanders
Fuck, my sides.

>>9902295
when should I expect to see you take power in any field in any way, political, financial, artistic, scholastic?

>>9902339
Never, that would be LARPing.

>>9899661
>Maybe kropotkin has five or six
u wot? Kropotkin is pretty well known and influential, m8. And calling all of marx's work trash is a little reductive lmao. Not saying i disagree with you, you just come off as a little obnoxious

>>9902368
it seems you've out-iq'ed me good fellow i feel pretty dumb now, wow.

that's humbling

>>9902339
>when should I expect to see you take power
Why would I want that kind of notoriety?

>>9902376
I'm not the guy you were talking to. I was just LARPing as him.

>>9902379
I see smart but lazy. If you wanted to you could become the next Einstein or Newton or Joyce or Beethoven but the world doesn't deserve you so you sit in your basement and post on 4chin

>>9902388
that's exactly what i'm saying mr. 1488, you've out-iqeued me

>>9902395
shut up you FUCKing faggot

>>9902395
>If you wanted to you could become
No I couldn't. I don't have to be anywhere near that level to be more well read than the average right-wing statesman though. The current president should be more than enough proof of that to you. These people are puppets of a corporatist strategy to control the government. If you think they earned their position through "intellectual merit," you're a complete sheep.

>>9902396
You can infer a lot from a post lad. Congrats.

>>9902234
>talking about intellectual capacity
>paragraph long run-on sentence with no capitalization
>rife with tautologies
>generally poor sentence structure
You've convinced me.

>>9902417
>I don't have to be anywhere near that level to be more well read than the average right-wing statesman though. The current president should be more than enough proof of that to you. These people are puppets of a corporatist strategy to control the government. If you think they earned their position through "intellectual merit," you're a complete sheep.
It feels as though you're trying to string together a sentence or express a thought here but it just comes across as garbled self parody. Would you like to take another shot at it when you've had time to collect yourself and maybe when mommy has given you your medication?

something I don't really understand is how structuralists (so Marxists, but not fundamentally them) think that changing institutions will change how societies develop or how humans are going to interact with each other centuries into the future.
I understand there are going to be different interpretations of certain factors, but how the hell are we going to end up in a different way than we are already?

I refuse to believe that all societies were engineered by some superior collective intelligence to favor capitalism for who knows what reasons (sorry Nick Land). If anything, societies grew organically depending on their environments and technology. And if that's the case, it doesn't really matter what institutions we try to create in a laboratory, they are going to be affected by both technology and the environment (environment as a big concept, not just nature). Institutions like marriage in western countries developed through wars, famines, invasions, economic growth, etc... for centuries; if we tried to create something similar, it makes sense that it would organically change in different communities depending on their needs and crisis. The issue that uncertainty affects us much more as a species than that which we can measure, a great famine caused by no raining will change institutions in government (replacing or putting new types of it), work (maybe kids will start working earlier), education (people might not go to college since they can't afford it now that food is more expensive), etc... We don't live in the XVI Century anymore, but the crisis are still there: Civil unrest, global war, food shortage, energy problems, etc... we seem to have forgotten all of this because of how peaceful the western countries have been from the second part of the XX Century.

And if we changed institutions, who the fuck knows how we would end up? There are no ways to calculate how humans will assimilate that and give us a expected outcome. Why is one social engineering superior or more moral than the other anyways? If we only count intentions, well, that's not enough.

I also think Capitalism is immoral and will eventually die out, but replacing it with any Marxist type of society isn't going to create a big Utopia down the line, simply because the issue isn't institutions, but how humanity grows and relates to the world as a species and a organism, which I think is far more complex than reducing everything to class struggle.

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>>9902436

>>9902439
It seems pretty coherent to me, anon. Maybe you're the one who isn't as will read as Trump.

>>9902639
There is a difference between a typo and an incoherent rant.

>>9901575
> Imagine being so communist you look at food and get angry.

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>>9903138
Under rated