Thoughts on this?

>>9886684
implies you can't have an asian name if you're white

>>9886684
should make people realise how sad identity politics are

I don't mind.

>>9886695
You aren't mind.

pseudonyms are cowardly

It was okay when women used male sounding pen names to get their work out there. Why not now?

>>9886684
What if he's trans-asian?

Didn't this happen quite a while ago? Like 2015 sometime?

>>9886684
I wouldn't read non-whites' books so... Hmm...

Things like this are a logical consequence of identity politics.

>10 years ago: "identity politics is good and needed"
>now: "this is a consequence of identity politics, identity politics is sad"

reminder that these are the same people and that their opinions and ability to do politics is bad

>>9886684
Why did he use an Asian name and not a black name or something?

>>9886826
>use a black name
>don't write about being black
it's a question of credulity

serves them right for Pearl Harbor

>>9886684
The ones that moan about racism are the truly racist ones. More news at 11.

Also, the "cultural appropriation" attack against him is laughable. The whole world has been "culturally appropriating" white culture for well over a century now. This entire incident is actually STILL just white culture. Impudence and underhandedness are a repulsive combo.

>>9886857
>The ones that moan about racism are the truly racist ones
>This entire incident is actually STILL just white culture (...) Impudence and underhandedness
What a tick, I think YOU may be racist

>>9886857
>The ones that moan about racism are the truly racist ones.

No I'm pretty sure thats the people who say nigger and kike a lot

>>9886869
What if you use 'Jew' as a pejorative?

>>9886869
what if you only say it sometimes.

>>9886869
It's racist to pin anything to an entire race and hate the race for it, like people who go on about "white privilege" and "cultural appropriation".

>>9886877
There's a different way to use it?

>>9886684
Anyone can have a white name but whites have to have white names. What?

>>9886863
#notallwhitepeople

I hope David Wong is the next in line.

>>9886884
Cheating is fine when the losers do it.

>>9886684
I live in Poland and I knew a 100% (99%?) white guy whose surname was "Il" like in "Kim Jong-il".
Also Yi-Fen Chou did nuffin wrong

>>9886684
why is the headline not "publishing industry under fire for publishing asians too often"
never mind i know the answer to that one

but how was this information revealed? it's not mandatory for a writer to reveal themselves

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never mind
also
>2015

>>9887018
lol bald

>>9886736
are you that dense?

>>9886736
bECAUSeEHIWTE MEN ARE NTOT OPPRESsedkE

the weird thing about this is he took a name from a person he knew from his personal life.

>europeans cant have asian names
American retardation. Just ignore it. Their toxic country will eventually consume itself.

>>9887036
sup stupid

>>9887078
This shit is more pervasive in western europe desu

>>9886684
>>9886684
All literary awards and all awards for that matter, are empty simulacra, events that exist only to circularly affirm their own relevance. Nobody cares abou literature or film, but people still care about identity politics.

>>9886880
you sound like those people who say, "what are you complaining about? slavery ended 150 years ago."

>women used male names to avoid publishing discrimination
>fine
>white man used asian name to avoid publishing discrimination
>racist scum
Really fires the nuerons

>>9887999
I just want to exit the Calvinist morass of never ending guilt and get to the part with nietszchean affirmation. Leftists sexually get off to guilt and black people/trannies like ta neshi coats get off at being victimised. I just want out of this game

>>9886684
>how dare he exploit our politically correct microcosm of nepotism
>rrrrRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>9888002
it's not really a double standard. gender discrimination was an industry-wide practice well into the 20th century. read Woolf, A Room of One's Own. whereas today, one unaccomplished white guy decides to trick his way into the system. btw, no one called your literary hero a "racist," he's just a mediocre writer with shoddy ethics.

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>>9886684
>be a girl
>pen name is male
>don't want to change penname
>having a female name is advantageous in the current climate

I think it says way more about the literary community, in that they're much more willing to accept sub-par work as long as it's from a minority, than it says about the writer.

>>9888026
Well if he's a mediocre writer he shouldn't have been published in the first place. This just shows how exploitable the publishing industry can be. Undeserving people of all identities are becoming published without any merit behind them.

>>9888026
How did changing his name get him into the industry then?

>>9888026
You must be high in agreeableness.

>>9888032
>not making an androgynous multi-ethnic pen name to keep people guessing
Start with the Greeks

>>9888068
I'm thinking of just saying screw it and making a name made up of random non-name words like an indie punk band. Something like Space Beetroot.

>>9887011
it was a tiny poetry publication (like...7 readers) with some sort of ethnic/minority theme.

Keep kidding yourselves white men are victims /pol/, its your heart attack

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>>9886684
Seinfeld already covered that one.

>>9888098
Do you honestly believe white men can't be victims? Are you really that retarded?

>>9886851
Criminally underrated.

>>9888026
>>9888026
>Muh ethics!

Oh please you people have been undermining aesthetics and meritocracy for years with victim hood based criteria and then you complain about ethics! Remember, even Woolf was a good old Tory with a healthy contempt for the wogs. You openly admit it isn't about aesthetics but about redressing past identitarian grievances, about 'ethics'. This man was robbing a righteous victim of his place in the collection. It was never about poetry. You are just another managerial shithead busy body high off his own guilt. I suppose your dick gets hard whenever you get the chance to chastise your 'fellow white people'.

>>9888047
I did some research on this last year. Sherman Alexie (editor for Best American Poetry 2015) said he was intrigued by the fact that a chinese woman wrote a poem so centered on greek mythology, western culture, and christianity--as if this was an outsider's perspective on the whole circus. of course, the outsider perspective as reading and misreading is lost entirely when the author reveals it to be a hoax. to answer your question, the editor read the poem in a better light due to his assumptions about the author.

i think our fascination with the individual merit of the """Text Itself,""" and regardless to the facts of its composition or its author's origins, is an idea that is fundamentally at odds with the current literary marketplace. when you say that work should be judged on its own and not in relation to the author, you ignore all the real instances of author-based judgment. we use author names as guarantees of quality and style, historical and ideological units, and conceptual unities. You read a Stevens poem with different assumptions and critical biases than an Eliot poem.

i think that for texts to be judged solely on "literary merit" we'd have to go back to pre-Chaucer days when literary texts were anonymous and traded around the fireplace or over a drink. and that's just not gonna happen, writers want money and recognition, and publishers need that stamp of quality that is a name.

>>9888123
if your contention is that white men are being systematically shut out of publishing, please get a grip. certain publications are catered to minorities, yes. but the majority of published authors are still white and male

https://www.poynter.org/2012/why-88-of-books-reviewed-by-the-new-york-times-are-written-by-white-authors/176705/

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/feb/04/research-male-writers-dominate-books-world

if you think that minority-catered publications are a form of "victimizing" white men, you have a fantastically low bar for victimization and general butthurt

>>9888152
please tell me of all the great white male authors, bearers of the torch, our generation's last bastion of "aesthetics and meritocracy," who have been stymied by the far-left / marxist / jewish / publishing conspiracy.

bitch please. The writers of our generation are DFW, Bolano, Franzen, Knausgaard, etc. The white male is doing well for himself. check yourself before you shrek yourself

>>9888186
>yes. but the majority of published authors are still white and male
Because the majority of authors in the West are white and male. Please show me a publisher that publishes ONLY whites and or males.

>>9886684

(((They))) won't publish white men. I myself have considered writing under a Jewish female pen-name to get published

>>9888186
>i think that for texts to be judged solely on "literary merit" we'd have to go back to pre-Chaucer days when literary texts were anonymous and traded around the fireplace or over a drink. and that's just not gonna happen, writers want money and recognition, and publishers need that stamp of quality that is a name.
Or just New Criticism, which is fucking overdue for a revival.

>>9887999

Why don't we send them back to Africa, where they would be if it weren't for slavery? Surely they would be better off, since it's so racist here?

>>9886736
>using your own initials is 'male sounding'

>>9888186
The publishing industry is part of the liberal managerial state and consumed by its ideology. You see the fact white people are still getting published as a social, 'ethical' problem to be solved. The texts themselves don't matter, books could be blank for all you care. It's about empowering the victims, being representative of our diverse and vibrant society. You are the kind of man to clap at free verse slam poetry events about fat shaming. I think art and literature are dead and have been dead for a while. They are downright impossible in this society of ours. The smugness with which you reference Virginia Woolf and talk about muh legacy of institutional discrimination- priceless!

Authors should be assigned a random hexadecimal pen-name for their first few books. After being published three times you can switch to your real name.

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>>9888212

So they were perfectly okay with publishing his stuff until they found out he was a different race? That sounds pretty racist.

>>9888194
Overdue for a revival because of political reasons? The philosophical reasons should suggest that New Criticism is never coming back.

>>9888186
>but the majority of published authors are still white and male

And how many of them were first published less than ten years ago?
A) white male authors are objectively better on average than others, thus more popular, thus "dominate" published work
B) but most of them got their foot in the door in the 70s, 80s, and 90s when "positive discrimination" and virtue-signalling were not viable financial strategies
C) thus the white males who entered the industry 20+ years ago are more popular and successful than the affirmative action hires who are being groomed as their replacements, but new white male writers are still being shutting out of the industry.

Conclusion: if nothing changes, the old white males (gurrm, Steven King, Terry Pratchett, etc.) will die off and be replaced by undeserving minorities and women whose work will not be economically viable and this will result in the industry conducting an about-face and letting white males in again, and the market will correct itself, but this whole idiotic experiment will cause severe damage to both authors and industry, prevent an entire generation of writers from ever getting off the ground, and set back western literature for several decades.

>please tell me of all the great white male authors, bearers of the torch, our generation's last bastion of "aesthetics and meritocracy," who have been stymied by the far-left / marxist / jewish / publishing conspiracy.

How would we know who they are? The gate-keepers of our culture are preventing us from reading them

>>9888213
>I love 2471A3's work, hopefully xi publishes xir fourth book soon

>>9888235
>white male authors are objectively better on average than others, thus more popular,

This is pretty funny

>>9888226
You're racist for thinking it's about race

>>9888235
i couldn't give my next shit about who replaces grrm, king, and pratchett. they are mediocre writers who pander to the lowest common denominator. then again, you sound like the kind of person who reads mediocre writers

>>9888242

Name a non-white female author who rivals Steven King or George Martin in popularity

>>9888233
>Overdue for a revival because of political reasons?
No, not at all. I don't disagree substantially with most of your post. But, I do think there absolutely is value in assessing a work on its own merits without relation to the author, climate, etc. These things are all valuable - and you could say essential to the complete analysis - but the work also exists in and of itself.

I feel like nowadays these is a total abandonment of that even when you're learning how to read and study literature. I also feel that abandoning that often removes the individual reaction and thoughts of a single reader in favour of a consensus, background-influenced opinion which it's easy to pitch as objective. New Criticism is definitely the school I relate to most as a reader whenever I'm looking at something to take it apart.

>The philosophical reasons should suggest that New Criticism is never coming back.
???? Would you explain this more?

>>9888248

Please, enlighten me with all the women and minorities you read who are good

King and Grrm are shit but their popularity is what was relevant to the discussion re: muh top 88 authors being white males (for such an enlightened intellectual, your reading comprehension leaves a great deal to be desired).

Show me a field of the written word in which the top five white males do not/did not (90-95% of actually good writers are dead) produce superior quality work to the top five equal opportunities hires.

>>9888250
i know you said nonwhite to avoid the obvious answers, HP, twilight, and 50 shades. but honestly, why the fuck are you talking about genre trash? as if popularity = quality. on /lit/ of all places.

>>9888250
What? I was laughing more at the link between popularity and objective merit

>>9886684
>>9886684
This is why I believe fascism is the solution, the all consuming cult of the victim, the shrieking, the snivelling, the squealing pathetic victim threatens to engulf everything and destroy civilisation itself. NeXT thing you know, they are just going to wheel out a snivelling transgendered autistic mixed race lesbian on a wheelchair while the public claps and apologises profusely for their incorregible bigotry. This is how art dies.

>>9888264

The closest thing would be purveyors of literal feces like Rowling and Meyers but considering their works as books is a bit of a stretch

>>9888278
Harry Potter and Twilight are still books, anon.

>>9888271
>>9888267

That was what the initial post to which I responded concerned, but if you want to move the goalposts then reveal all the non-white and/or female authors possessed of objective merit.

>>9888264
>>9888289
i find it funny that you're trying so hard to talk about "popularity" and "superior quality work" in the same breath. you're just all over the place. truly the meanderings of a crippled mind

btw, i doubt you have read any minorities or women, since you have such a hard time thinking of the "good" ones and hence need them to be "revealed" to you. so try Anne Carson, Lydia Davis, Jay Wright, and Ralph Ellison.

>inb4 "they're old!"
age and greatness go together. you have a much wider pool. if you wanna take this counterargument, gimme a "good" white male under 40

>>9888303
>btw, i doubt you have read any minorities or women,

Sylvia Plath, Jennifer Egan, Maya Angelou, Gwendolyn Brooks, all absolute emperor's new clothes shit. Hanya Yanigahara is an amazingly bad joke.Virginia Woolfe is extremely overrated and subpar. All of the 19th and 18th century female writers are overrated.
>Inb4 they're old

Well we are talking about barriers to new authors so it is actually appropriate to ask for proof that the current crop of affirmative action hires deserve to be hired, but we can play the "what about these writers from half a century ago" game.

>>9888303
>>9888343
>I think I know what sort of person I am. But then I think, But this stranger will imagine me quite otherwise when he or she hears this or that to my credit, for instance that I have a position at the university: the fact that I have a position at the university will appear to mean that I must be the sort of person who has a position at the university. But then I have to admit, with surprise, that, after all, it is true that I have a position at the university. And if it is true, then perhaps I really am the sort of person you imagine when you hear that a person has a position at the university. But, on the other hand, I know I am not the sort of person I imagine when I hear that a person has a position at the university. Then I see what the problem is: when others describe me this way, they appear to describe me completely, whereas in fact they do not describe me completely, and a complete description of me would include truths that seem quite incompatible with the fact that I have a position at the university.

Hahahahahaha next

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>>9888343
>virginia woolfe
>overrated and subpar
opinion descarted

>>9888289
>if you want to move the goalposts

I can't move the goalposts if that was literally my post first. Like I said, it was funny that you link popularity and objective merit.

>>9888343
"merit?" you sure sound spooked.

>>9888351
>https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48635/book-of-isaiah-part-i

Also typical sophomore English major pseud shit that I could find in /lit/'s creative writing critique thread

>>9888367

The goalposts were set by whom I responded to, take it up with him

>>9888211
who are you quoting?

>>9888376
>www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/42751/boleros-14

Pretty shit, but no more than most post-1920 poetry, certainly better than the two women. Still shit though.

>>9888252
>No, not at all. I don't disagree substantially with most of your post.

You're replying to my first post. I think a kind of formalism is valuable in terms of having multiple approaches to a single (body of) work, as is social, etc. But there is a kind of magical thinking required to pretend that a work can be completely separate from author and the rest (the outside), especially one that relies so heavily on language which can't ever be pinned down as meaning only ever its referent. These idealised states can't really exist. Or rather, there are problems in the nature of an isolated aesthetic judgment that contradict its claims to truth.

>>9888400
>Ralph Ellison
>Nor is my invisibility exactly a matter of a bio-chemical accident to my epidermis.

Thought he was ok until that eye-rollingly bad line. 90% of black authors are mentally incapable of writing about anything but being black, and about 60% of female authors are incapable of writing about anything but being female. At least gay authors have proven themselves capable of writing about topics other than bum-piracy.

I would cut Ellison slack for failing to buck the trend were the quality of the writing worthwhile, but it's really not unless you compare it to semi-verbal gruntings such as "we real cool", which is a pretty low bar.

I appreciate that you suggested poetry though because I wasn't going to sit here and read four novels just for the sake of argument.

Getting published isn't the end goal here. I know plenty of people who are published, even some with actual published novels, who never made a dime doing it, and as far as they know nobody has ever read their word.

The end goal, of course is to actually gain readership, and make some money doing it.

This guy is just using a dumb trick in order to get his shitty stuff published, which in itself is fairly worthless thing. So whatever.

>>9887937
Only if by western you mean the northern countries, France, Great Britain and Germany. If by that you men "Western Europe", then yes, we're at an agreement.

this only shows how stupid readers are

>>9886684
what if an asian used a white pen name

>>9888352

Woolfe does nothing that Joyce and Faulkner don't do better, and I don't even like Joyce and find Faulkner very hit-or-miss, but they do what I don't like better than Woolfe. She's not terrible, just highly overrated by people like (you).

Yeats and Hardy were pretty much the last good authors that set out to write "literary" work. It has been, however, a steady decline, in poetry at least, since the romantics, with very few exceptions.

Keeping all this in mind, and approaching texts on the terms of their authors, it is still the case, as I have said, that white men write better modernist and post-modernist dreck than anybody else.

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>>9886684
It's the only way for heterosexual white guys to get published nowadays.

>>9888416
Is it really magical thinking when all you have is the book, or whatever text, in front of you though? That's all you have. At first, at core or whatever, that's what you're using. Anything else is outside it.

I actually do agree with you when you say the idealised state of this kind of analysis can't really exist. But when you concentrate to heavily on ' the outside' you can also get into a sort of feedback loop of authenticity between the writer and the reader that starts to become wholly separate from the text and its merits. Look at the contrition the YA market goes through on its books that deal with (or even mention) a minority audience. The author is attacked on the credentials of their identity; the reader is questioned on the credentials of their identity.

To pick out the YA market and readership is an extreme example but the strains of that kind of thought exist at all levels, and I feel they're given credence they really shouldn't be. A text-centered analysis lessens that. I'm not a complete purist about it and I think you ultimately should use the context in fully analysing something. But often now it feels like bringing it back to the author's identity is the immediate go-to and even the object of the analysis.

(I also feel that - at least sometimes - when it's the really good stuff all the cues you'd take from reading into the background are there and *are* the text anyway. An example for me would be like Marina Tsvetaeva and Sophia Parnok's 'Girlfriend' poems. You read into it and you get the exact background, this happened here, this there, one thought this and the other this. But it's all really only detail: the essential stuff is already there in their respective poems.)

>>9888460

France, GB, and Germany are, what, 210 million people out of an EU population of 500ish million? Throw in another 20m for Scandicucks if you want to be fair, and we're looking at almost half the EU population living under radical identitarian leftist regimes and cultures. Just because traditionalism thrives in Montenegro and Liechtenstein doesn't mean that Europe is better off than America in this regard. It is also worth noting that these ideologies took hold first in North-Western Europe. You had a convergently evolved "sexual revolution" at the exact same time as we did, in Germany, France, Sweden, etc.

>>9888481

Why would an Asian want to reduce his or her odds of being published?

>>9888512
>GB, France, Germany
>radical identitarian leftist regimes and cultures
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
fucking burgers, anything to the left of milton friedman and ayn rand is stalin
stay in your lane know-nothings, talk about DA GAWD EMPERAH and shit like that

>>9888528
meant to quote this guy: >>9888513

>>9888481
Obviously that must happen all the time because whites are the most advantaged authors ;^)

Honestly, people just don't wanna confront the idea that certain things will sell or succeed more under certain associations. What the guy in the OP did was scummy, the points raised about authenticity are valid but he also totally did increase his chances under the Chinese name. And if I'm publishing some shitty erofic on Amazon for $$$ then, if it's for gay men I'll write it under a male name. If it's for women I'll write it under a female one.

>>9888496
>thinks literature is declining
>thinks yeats was the "last" "good" "literary" poet
>golden age golden age golden age golden age golden
eyeroll

>new white male writers are shut out of the industry
is this the next epic meme?

>>9888513
You'll have to deal with my more authoritarian tone, since I find yours to be petulant; I believe you don't what you're talking about. It is true that leftism is an ideology to be recognized as relevant, but to express that it rampant and totalitarian* is an absurdity. The reality you're referring to is something that only happens in the big cities** and even there your claim would be absurd. And in your so traditionalism, I reckon, you fantasize that it is a full-proof system. The girls from said "degenerate radical lefist hell-holes" are more often more temperate than girls from your traditionalist unicorn-countries, who once freed from their families become cum hungry whores. I never said this, because I somewhat sympathize with extreme far-right movements, but you need to go back to /pol/ if you cannot type posts with a clear head.

[* or even to imply it]
[** big relatively to the country]

>>9888540
>Muh blank verse

Go die in a Starbucks

>>9888373
If we are all about getting unspooked, white guilt is the greatest spook of our time. God forbid white people ever get 'despooked' and act according to their own rational self interest

>>9888528

LOOOOOOOOL fucking yuropoors anything to the right of Adorno and Marcuse is Hitler
Stay in your caliphates know-nothings, talk about DA ZIZ EK and shit like that

>>9888613
>I believe you don't what you're talking about.
Stopped reading.
You're on a literature board for fucks sake, bud.

>>9888613
>full-proof

>>9888607
It's about exploding our decadent social order, of which the publishing industry is part and parcel. We need to destroy the credibility of liberal institutions, expose th as enemies.

>>9888641
lol

>>9888647
Not an argument

>>9888665
Laughter isn't an argument, correct.

>>9888613
>but you need to go back to /pol/ if you cannot type posts with a clear head.

It was 100% clear-headed, I will admit only that I have spent as much time in some tiny French village as you have in rural West Virginia, which is to say none.

>Urban/rural divide

Yeah, so like here, that's great but you don't see people being jailed for quoting Winston Churchill in public, or going on strike because a 30-hour work-week is too hard in the US.

As a general rule, the average European country, east or west, is situated further to the left than the average "blue state" in the US. You take so much of leftism for granted that your nationalists are often leftist to a degree. An excessively generous social safety net is taken for granted. Outside Britain and the Baltic, what Americans would consider a "mixed economy" is the status quo which only a few fringe micro-parties like the FDP seriously argue against.

And as for social leftism, for radical cultural leftism, your universities have been just as bad as ours for longer. Antifa came to America from Europe. It was a European phenomenon until about five years ago. Black-washing history on TV was something I saw on BBC America ten years before it became the norm here. Radical feminism and political correctness also became much more popular in Europe much sooner, and your institutions began enforcing these ideologies before ours. In western Europe at least, as I qualified in the previous post. The notion that it came to Europe from America is absurd, if for no other reason than that the Frankfurt school *came from Frankfurt*.

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We live in an age where white men think they're being oppressed. What a world. A lot of the time I feel the guys who go WHAT ABOUT WHITE MEN lack the proper historical and societal context and assume everything is perfectly equal at the moment.

>>9888673

And let's not forget that the entire Muslim question was imported from Europe into American leftism during Obama's second term. Precisely nobody gave a shit about Muslims during the Bush years or the financial crisis, then all of a sudden American leftists start #NotAllMuslims and demanding Muslim immigration — a phenomena i first observed in North-Western Europe almost twenty years ago. The Paris riots were over a decade ago. Nobody in America was even aware of them, and jingoistic "islamophobia" was heard from the center-left, here. The new left's islamophilia is a wholly European import, unless you want to enter the realm of conspiracy theories and blame it on a US-led new world order, which we can do if you want but exits the realm of the empirically verifiable, for the most part.

>>9888666
You didn't laugh out loud.

>>9888693
>Precisely nobody gave a shit about Muslims during the Bush years
How fucking old are you? Are you retarded? Were you like 2 years old back then or something?

>>9888692
Do you know of any publishers who have a rule that they only publish works from white men and no one else?

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>>9888615
>getting rid of a minor spook to indulge in an even larger one (the former being an outgrowth from the latter).

spooky

>>9888716
If you still think that's the point then there's no getting it in to your head.

>>9888692
It's about self interest. Present tense. I'm not letting people screw me or my folks regardless of how much they beg for pity or appeal to victimhood. This is not a contractual agreement this is not utilitarian not economically rational, this is a naked and manipulative appeal to pity and collective guilt. Screw this.

>>9886851
Based

>>9888692

There will never be perfect equality because egalitarianism is a lie. Everyone was enslaved by everyone else at one point in history, and it justifies precisely nothing. Africans were not on the fast-track to greatness when the Islamic slave trade began roughly a millennium ago, they were going nowhere slow much like the Australian Aborigines. Had Europeans and middle Easterners quarantined the continent along the lines of some kind of Star Trek style "non-interference with primitives" directive, Africans would still be living in mud huts and killing each other with pointy sticks, instead of living in tin shacks and killing each other with Soviet-manufactured assault rifles.

History does not justify or condemn any aspect of modern society, this notion is merely an excuse for other agendas.

>>9888721
You probably haven't even read le meme mans books. And why does establishment left 72 genders white guilt bullshit follow from Stirner? In any case that's the spooks you choose. I find your spooks absurd and want no part in them

>>9888725
for I am enlightened by my own intelligence.

>>9888700

My uncle is a Muslim convert who founded a Muslim defence legal fund shortly after 9/11. I was 14 on 9/11. I remember it well. Nobody gave a shit about Muslims in the sense of defending them from islamophobia, as was clearly stated in my post. It's ok if you were too stupid to understand it, I used a lot of big words, I'll wait while you go back and re-read it.

>>9888692
Your historical notion of justice is blatantly spooky and neocalvinist tho

Old news, but I found it amusing to say the least. Backlash is obviously totally unneeded and detrimental to the cause. But it's nothing new ether way you look at it. Patric O'Brian sneaked his way into publishing by pretending he's Irish as well - not to mention Josep Conrad. I'm also convinced a huge number of women romance writers are men. But as it is, there's no way a man can publish romance nowdays to audience, so one need's to sneak hisway around, and I see nothing wrong with it, as long as it's not vicious.

Personally I never could care less. I've read works that I though were written by women, and the other way around. I read on a whim, always skip author prefaces, so that happens to me occasionally.

>>9886684

Well played. Publisher mad cause he got fucked over, oh well.

>>9888740
I find even the worst fedora tipper more worthy of respect than your average self loathing nu male leftist. Go on post pics of fat dudes in MAGA hats, your side is literally fucking trannies. Self righteous snark is powerless before the bullet and the ballot. Thought you would've Learnt something from the whole Hillary debacle.

>>9888759
theyre literally fucking trannies guys

time to pack it up

>>9888747
>precisely nobody
Stop being dishonest.
There's no such thing as islamophobia. How do you protect muslims from people criticizing their faith? It's not even an attack on muslims. It's criticism of their political religious ideology.

>>9888692
What if I don't think 'equality' should be the determining and supreme value all the fucking time?

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>>9888736
>so spook'd he thinks I was his big bad sjw enemy without reading into my post
I was saying you are not going all the way!

>>9888250
>Stephen King
>George Martin

If these are your top dogs of literature, you need to get the fuck off this forum

>>9888692
Objectively speaking, white men are not afforded the same rights to speech and assembly that other identity groups are. I want to emphasis that is not an opinion: it is not a subjective analysis, it is an objective fact that is beyond debate. Western governments, criminal justice systems and media openly collude to suppress the assembly and speech of white men who promote their self-interest.

ITT: people who have never, and will never, read Hudson's poetry defend his work for the political reason that poetry should only be about aesthetics, and refuse to discuss the aesthetics of his poetry.

>>9888343
>Egan
>emperors new clothes

Alright. You gotta fuck off. Egan is incredible and I doubt you've actually read any of her work.

>>9888809
Like I'm gonna read some faggot who could only get published by pretending to be Asian.

>>9888343
>sister finds out i've been getting into literature
>buys me two books, the Sellout by Paul beatty some old black man and The Assassination of Margret Thatcher by some broad
>This may be hard to believe, coming from a black man, but I've never stolen anything. Never cheated on my taxes or at cards. Never snuck into the movies or failed to give back the extra change to a drugstore cashier indifferent to the ways of mercantilism and minimum-wage expectations. I've never burgled a house. Held up a liquor store. Never boarded a crowded bus or subway car, sat in a seat reserved for the elderly, pulled out my gigantic penis and masturbated to satisfaction with a perverted, yet somehow crestfallen look on my face.

First fucking page of the book.

>>9888724
So that's a no then. I guess white men are oppressed to a certain degree because of being white and male.

>>9888673
I take back what I expressed and apologize for my cheap comments in your respect.

>>9888192
Tyr magazine
Casper review

>>9888692
The American left is profoundly retarded and suicidal. It's like you want an ethnonationalist fascist backlash to blow up in your face. Instead of telling downwardly mobile whites they deserve their lot for being privileged why not create a broad coalition against capitalism. It isn't like managerial top down diversity and idpol have helped the average ghetto dwellers. Only the black managerial class benefits. Read adolph reed. You are too deeply involved in the spectacle And moral theological bullshit you can't see the material reality right in front of you.

>>9888949
>Instead of telling downwardly mobile whites they deserve their lot for being privileged why not create a broad coalition against capitalism.
The actual left is trying to do that but the "left" (fucking liberals) are sabotaging them at every turn.

>>9888615
you sound so afraid right now. i can hear ayn behind your trembling

>>9888725
>>9888716
>>9888749
>>9888777
>>9888807
you talk a lot but the only thing i hear is a scared little man who got too many rejection letters and is lashing out at imagined enemies. you blame the boogeyman left for your lack of success when the real culprit (as always) is your own mediocrity

>>9889088
Stop projecting lol

>>9889088
and here you are, posting bait on /lit/ and mocking those who attempt challenging tasks

what a fulfilling life it must be

and no I am not any of the posters you responded but I wanted you to be aware that you're more pathetic than anybody in this thread

>>9888807
Nope, just Nazis. If you're not a Nazi then you're free to speak.

>>9888440
They probably would have gained some readership if they utilizes a feminine Asian name.

Nigs and women are too stupid to write, asians too soulless.

>>9889154
But according to the SJW left just being white makes you a nazi. I've heard leftists call for the murder of white children. Seriously, these people are insane.

>>9889088
Hey wasn't meritocracy an evil white social construct? Just like all standards of mediocrity? The leftist ideal of art is Beyoncé twerking extravaganzas and Lena Dunham's girls for gods akes. Sorry I couldn't get any victimhood scholarships like you did brah.

There's a long tradition in literary circles of using pen names to overcome discrimination. This guy simply did the same. People are butthurt because they are delusional to the point they believe that discriminating against white people is legitimate, although the very fact that using an Asian pen name gets you more sales with the same materials proves there is not favouritism towards white people.

Racists are simply butthurt that pen names take away their ability to be racist.

>>9889229
>Buh-buh-but princessdaisy on tumblr and horsenudes on deviantart said "Kill all whites"
guess what, if that's enough for you to go nazi then you were a nazi all along

>I've heard leftists call for the murder of white children.
lol dumbass, this is like me saying that rightwingers want to exterminate nonwhites and jews because I read it on /pol/

>>9886684
How is this at all a problem? Or different from taking a woman's name? Or a woman taking a man's name?

This sounds perfectly reasonable.

>>9888186
>I did some research on this last year. Sherman Alexie (editor for Best American Poetry 2015) said he was intrigued by the fact that a chinese woman wrote a poem so centered on greek mythology, western culture, and christianity--as if this was an outsider's perspective on the whole circus.

So basically you're saying people liked it because of discriminatory reasons rather than what was in the text.

>we use author names as guarantees of quality and style

Correct, and if somebody publishes with an Asian name, you assume it's higher quality, because you're a racist.

> the majority of published authors are still white and male

Irrelevant, white men dominating publishing doesn't mean they face discrimination in their favor. This authors actions in fact proves this is not the case. The ability to use pen names cuts through the bullshit of this entire narrative because it is evidently not true white people get discrimination in their favour, Asian people are favoured over white people.

I don't know how you can deny reality this fucking hard. The mental gymnastics you are doing are unreal. Whites would dominate more than 88% of the new york times best sellers list if there was not discrimination against them, they deserve more. Maybe women and other races should learn to fucking write English books.

When you see clear evidence of favoritism towards other races, and clear evidence that whites are overwhelmingly overrepresented by the New York Times which has a fairly white reading demographic, you avoid the obvious conclusion that white men simply write books more appealing to the NYT readerbase simply because you don't like that idea, and go through mental gymnastics that if not every race has their books read perportional to their numbers, clearly white men are keeping everybody else down. Even if that is evidently not the case, because white men still get published even if they don't publish as white men. You don't like the obvious conclusion, so you dance around it.

>>9889088
The mediocrity which is seen as exceptional when made by an asian man?

So is it racist that you undervalue a white man's work, or racist that you over value an asian man's work?

>>9889266
And what about all those tenured leftist academics who have made careers out of saying kill whitey? Isn't that the ultimate goal of the left? You know when transgenderism is fully normalised the left won't be satisfied, they are gonna need another bee in the bonnet to virtue signal about. They are going after gender, the family, they want to normalise and sexualise children. Pesos are just the next trendy oppressed victim class after all. The leftist has no concept of morality only hatred for 'white' social constructs. Such as the taboo on raping children

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Literature is one field where we can objectively measure discrimination through the use of pen names.

This of course, drives the left fucking nuts, as it turns out that despite whites being overrepresented in English literature, all the evidence points to them being discriminated against. They just can't fucking handle it. It shorts out their brain. They have to rationalise why white men can get published as other authors is somehow them cheating, because they know how to write interesting compelling English stories, but people will read them just because they claim to be Asian who nobody would expect to write compelling English stories, so that's totally unfair!

BAWWWWWWWWW! Why won't whites accept us discriminating against them? Don't they understand us oppressing them is all in the interest of fairness? There is no way whites could dominate writing so much unless they were cheating and oppressing others! Just because they can still get published as other races doesn't mean that they aren't getting published because of their race! BAWWWWW!

You all sound like the fucking white supremacists that downplay how Asians consistently get higher grades with the most retarded mental gymnastics. Whites are good writers, deal.

>>9889326
Bullshit. Either bait or legit disturbed person.

>>9889363
It's racist to assume that because someone has a traditional chinese name they can't have a traditional american upbring, so racism from those who scream racism abound

>>9889363
this to be honest

>>9886736
>what is context

>>9889363
Leftists are not rational they care only about feeling victimised and hating whites. If whites succeed in a given field this can only mean said field's standards are racist and socially constructed for the benefit of racist white males. To the leftist the perceived difference between the illiterate free verse spoken word slam poetry of a morbidly obese black transgender and Shakespeare is socially constructed and product of your own bigotry. The leftist has no moral or aesthetic standards xe knows only victimhood standards

>>9886684
>>9886684

Seriously are there any PoCWoC authors that would be read at all if it wasn't due to muh victimised identity?

>>9889411
>I do not get published under my born name
>so I used a pen name

what other context is required?

>people will not take a female author seriously
>people will not take a white male author seriously

How is one instance less justified?

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>>9886851

>>9889541
Because white males have benefited from centuries of racism and oppression. White hatred has been the defining force in US history, and it has always justified itself in supposed white victimhood, see the reconstruction for example, if you had listened to southern whites you would believe the klan where the good guys and black people were taking over

>>9889561
>previous oppression justifies modern oppression
Should we also have taken 6 million german civilians and killed them post ww2?

>>9889610
>previous
White supremacy is alive and well. Just look at the news; the Google memo, Charlottesville, the news item in OP. The fact that even modest attempts to address it provoque such anger and hatred reflect the urgency of the problem.

>>9889561
>>9889633
Never go full retard like this retarded commie faggot.

>>9889633
It's sad that I can't tell if this is ironic

>>9889633
Back to /pol/, commiefuck.

>>9886684
Well that's disheartening. I don't want to have to jump through bullshit just to have a chance at getting published. Trying to write good is hard enough.

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>>9889633

>this is what liberals actually believe

>>9889392
its true. #stopthepedoleft. this is the future jews want for our children.

>Germany's left has its own tales of abuse. One of the goals of the German 1968 movement was the sexual liberation of children. For some, this meant overcoming all sexual inhibitions, creating a climate in which even pedophilia was considered progressive.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-sexual-revolution-and-children-how-the-left-took-things-too-far-a-702679.html

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>>9889783
>>9889673
>>9889657
Not who you're replying to, but how people brandishing nazi flags and klansmen outfits NOT white supremacists?

>>9889866
I don't see James Damore there, where is he anon?

And by the way, white nationalist does not equal nazi, there were a couple of dozen guys with swastika's on their clothing there, ~2k people there.

>>9889866
Let me tell you why it seens to be so much white-supremacits:
1) you are delusional
2) the liberal crusade against the West and white people is triggering a reaction.

Libtards make terrorist groups like BLM ans Antifa to further advance this agenda with the help of their regressive politicians and public figures and them they get triggered when a reaction to their bullshit is similar to theirs.
The fucking hypocrasy.
You created this monster Frankstein.
Hope you are happy.

>>9889895
Kkk flagwits and leaderless resistance all formed before Antifa and blm. Nice meme tho

>Try to get published in Tin House for a year
>Nothing gets accepted
>Re-send two of my manuscripts in with no changes except I submit them under two female pennames
>They both get accepted, but they only allow one to be published when they call me and discover I wrote them both

Huh

>>9889902
>implying this chances the point that groups like BLM and Antifa and their actions dont trigger similar reaction from oposite groups

wow, have you ever considered work for newspapers? Because, when group keeps abusing other group, it's only natural that the other group reaction be similar or worst.

>>9889934
Nice meme. Those groups aren't a reaction, they've been doing this a long time.

>>9886684
A profound revelation of an American fetish

It will be great when people will start avoiding female or POC by reflex, because their works are published only based on identity politics criteria.

>>9889886
>white nationalist does not equal nazi

there's no much of a difference in term of what their goals imply and how they would go aboout achieving them.

>>9890008
Why not say all Racial Nationalists?

Or are you saying only White Nationalists are violent?

>>9890005
Is this not already the case? I would never read a book by a nigger or "poc" that was published in the united states. I would have no problem reading translated works written by "pocs" who reside in their home countries, because they are not insolent self victimizing retards.

>>9889363

sometimes it's nice to be reminded that there are other people out there who are seeing what I'm seeing. it's just so demoralizing when the media-blitz keeps berating you from all possible angles 24/7 trying to convince you that the insanity you are witnessing is just you being a hateful bigot and this is the new normal.

>>9890008
Not even close, I'm definitely not joining any groups of yet but my ideals could easily be categorized as white nationalist, the left has been using anti-white identity politics in the west for a decade, whites have the right to organize politically for their self interests too.

I am not a national socialist, and I do not wish to gas jews.

>>9886869
What if you say that shit ironically to play on the infantile idea that the words you say have any bearing on your identity

>>9888186
>Bolano
>chile
>white

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>>9889866

They're a fringe group, hated by almost everyone. White supremacy is not "alive and well" in the US, or anywhere for that matter. If it were then there wouldn't have been a fucking sub-Saharan African in the White House for eight years.

I mean for Christ's sake, less than two thirds of Americans are actually white. Seeing phantom oppression everywhere seems like a recurring psychosis for you lefty twits.

>>9888692
>We live in an age where white men think they're being oppressed. What a world. A lot of the time I feel the guys who go WHAT ABOUT WHITE MEN lack the proper historical and societal context and assume everything is perfectly equal at the moment.

What are you a fucking communist?

>>9886684
He's just playing the game
>implying women don't do it to get published
>implying they aren't mad because he showed how petty and shallow "forced diversity" is

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>>9890014
yeah, this goes for all racial nationalists.

>>9890078
So you are against the usage of identity politics by the left, and the nationalists that wish to displace current demographics in the west with their own?

>>9889944
>keeps avoinding the point

Thanks, now I know that I dont need to take you seriosly.

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>>9890083
i'm for communism.

>>9890106
Why do you assume racial tensions would magically disappear in your communist dystopia?

>>9890113
Probably because everyone would be so miserables that race wouldent be their concern

>>9886684
>Let's be open minded and color-blind to race by showing how tolerant and equal we are by choosing a book based on someone's race.
Its like they took two steps forward and three back.
No need to feel buttfustrated unless one were White with a persecution complex.

>>9886684
Genius. Cucks everywhere will buy the nomwhite.

My pen-name will be Nuung[click]ach[click]ibi Guadalajari.

i heard he got rejected multiple times both under his real name and the pseudonym, it just so happened that he finally got published using the asain name. this is not real data and doesn't prove anything

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>be strong white man looking to be a new writer
>use nonwhite/female pseudonym
>get published instantaneously
>no one reads it because women and niggers are worthless writers
shit

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>>9890493

>Get paid anyways

Seems pretty good to me

>>9890055
Remember, communism is first and foremost and anti white victim I cratic movement based on debasing and destroying all 'socially constructed' 'white supremacist' 'heteronormative' standards and flooding us with sub 90 IQ third worlders

>>9890838
Communism is - like Judaism - a revolt against God and man. Communism ruins all societies, be they African, South American, European, Asian...
>be a jew
>become an atheist
>still mutilate the dick of your son

>>9888949

Leftist posters like these are the only leftists I like.

>>9889633
>>9889783
he's right u know... no really, if you're a denier then you're blind. Calling it facism is a bit overboard but it's there, it exists.

>>9888211
>George Eliot has the same initials as Mary Anne Evans

>>9886694
not really tho, just because some people do something twatty because an idea doesn't mean the idea is shit.

>>9888026
apparently being a mediocre writer and not a white man gets you published

really makes me think...

>>9891221
>just because some people do something twatty because an idea doesn't mean the idea is shit.

like white supremacy, right?

>>9891596
The Tao Lin story

>>9888949

The left is controlled by globalist billionaires now. They are told to want:
A) high taxes on the struggling middle class (pay your fair share!)
B) importation of cheap labor to destroy wages (no human is illegal!)
C) government subsidies for the industries whose billionaires program them (pay for my healthcare! 65 year old coal miners should just become IT support!)
The 21st century left is a living corpse, gradually rotting and being eaten away by the maggots writhing in its flesh.

>>9888817
>A visit from the goon-squad

Trite tryhard edgy pseud crap. If she hadn't a vagina, nobody would care, and I wouldn't have been forced to read her in college

>>9889266
>lol dumbass, this is like me saying that rightwingers want to exterminate nonwhites and jews because I read it on /pol/

So, what CNN does every day?

>>9886857
>The ones that moan about racism are the truly racist ones

Woah.... Dude, you are, like, so woke!! Da fashists of da futur will be called antifashists!!!!

>>9888770
>There's no such thing as islamophobia.

Kill yourself immediately

>>9888770
>>precisely nobody
>Stop being dishonest.

I was literally speaking figuratively. Take thy semantics elsewhere, cuckold

>>9889363
Imagine writing this post

>>9891672

The term, like "homophobia" is nothing but leftist pathologizing of their enemies. Any fears of Islam as a whole are wholly justified by their kill-count

>>9890015
Embarrassing post

>>9889760

This

My plan is don't worry about it until I start getting turned down, then try to decide what ethnicity+gender my pen name should be

>>9889944

Protip: the original KKK was literally a reaction to Reconstruction/Carpetbaggers. You don't seem very well-read on US history desu senpai

>>9890008
>White Nationalist: fuck off, we're full
>National Socialist: fuck off, we're full, btw we require lebensraum so if you'll just step into this shower, we can get you processed...

>>9889561
I'm sorry but are you saying White Males do not have the _PRIVILEGE_ to do something "RACIST" like take a pen name because they're so _PRIVILEGED_? And inversely, an _UNDERPRIVILEGE_ asian person can take a white pen name if they wished and it would not be considered "RACIST"?

You leftists love to move goal posts and come up the most demented justification for why you're right, but never stopped to question if what you believe actually makes any sense.

Every race, every culture, has a history of oppressing another, including individuals in their own race. Every single one. Dominance in this regard, is OLD-FASHIONED, and a staple of the development of human kind.

The fact that faggy lefttilted morons like you think you're 1) better than other-whites because you can admit you're responsible for every oppressive injustice the white-western-race has comitted (but do nothing about it)
and 2) that our generation should be held responsible for the crimes of our grandparents or great grandparents or great great grandparents

just shows how out of touch with reality you are.

>>9891869
pt.2

I am not a racist. I do not value a person by the color of their skin, the nation of their birth or traditions they choose to uphold. This has no bearing on their interest in literature, computer science, plumbing or window washing. If they want to live a globo-capitalist neo-liberal life in the mirror hqll of a Western Metropolis, than so be it, they probably want to share our values too. Americanism has nothing to do with being white. Anyone who thinks this is also completely deluded and out of touch. The values you hold as an American has nothing to do with your skin color, partially to do with your upbringing, has everything to do with what you decide to believe.

We are living in a time when everyone, on every side, of every color can look back and say "there was a history of oppression" but look forward and say "there need not be anymore". I grew up in schools surrounded by every type of person. As a matter of fact, I'm one of those minorities. I have friends of every shade. The only difference this has meant was what would be for dinner.

We have to look each other in the eye, understand that the past is the past, and move forward. We have to expect the most out of ourselves, stop taking credit for the accomplishments of the rest of our own race, and stop blaming people for the horrific acts of their race.

This is a culture war, that old, self-victimizing racists would want you to fight on their behalf, because they feel it is work left undone. But really it will just make you the suggestible moron you're acting like. There wars have led to a slew of problems we have to deal with, and if we can't work next to each other because he's white he's opressing me or he's black he's illegitimate baby-ing me, than we will get nothing done.

Just as is happening today. Having every extreme left fighting for the crippling of White-Mans illusory rights produces nothing. White-Man dominated industry will remain that way, because the left was too caught up screaming at their door to live by example, outclass them in their fields, outnumber them, outwork them. Personal bias will always exist but movements are caused by just that, MOVEMENT. Be the change you want to see. You want to see whining babies on every corner for every possible issue? Than keep protesting and having promiscuous sex to deny the patriarchy (and biomechanical truths).

>>9886684

Will David Wong now recall all of his books and have them republished as Jason Pargin?