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Thread images: 28
Let's talk about this big guy
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very interesting
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>>9844189
No we won't.
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>>9844189
Not as known as Freud but none the less just as remarkable. Though I do think Freud might be more original and Jung bumped older idea's.
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>>9844189
He's all one needs in the essential "I didn't start with the Greeks" starter pack
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>>9844189
He is to Freud what Nietzsche was to Schopenhauer. Obviously Jung and Freud aren't nearly as deep and weren't philosophers but the analogy fits in context.
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based jung picked up on enantiodromia in based heraclitus
good scene
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>>9844271
Imbecile
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why do I get the feeling that everyone on this website (read dilettantes) who has actually read Freud and Jung did so giddily thinking to themselves "Yes! yes! That makes sense, collective unconcious! death drive! it all makes perfect sense now!" when in fact none of you understand anything about their ideas and the relation to each other?
t. studied them in an actual university
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>>9844280
because you're a projecting brainlet
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>>9844280
Thats mostly just the Jung readers. Freud readers are smart enough not to believe in horseshit like the collective unconscious
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>>9844285
hit a nerve did I? Haha
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>>9844277
Solid contribution.
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>>9844291
Thanks, I thought so too
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>>9844280
LOL
LAUGHING AT YOU
NOT WITH YOU
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threadly reminder that Santa IS real and i was right all along!
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The encounter with the shadow is life-altering and I'm still dealing with this mess years later
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>>9844280
At a guess, because you're unable to imagine a thought process or learning ability other than your own.
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>>9844280
because you unconsciously feel university was a waste of time and need to consciously rationalize your formal studies at every possible opportunity?
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>>9844289
>freud readers
>smart enough
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>>9844331
How does one come to encounter the shadow?
Is there a way to do it manually?
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>>9844549
Stand in front of a light source and look the opposite direction.
The sun works pretty well
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>>9844569
I'm not sure that he hated them, but he was smart enough to see that they and he were not in the same basket.
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>>9844275
Literally just dialectics. But yeah Heraclitus figured it all out 2500 years ago
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Can anyone recommend where I should start with Jung? I'm interested mainly in his ideas of individuation and how it's achieved. I'm coming from a Heraclitean and occult background and mainly interested in drawing connections from Jung to spirituality.
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>>9844549
For me it was a sudden yet long-coming realization that I was not who I thought I was. I was blind to my serious flaws.
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>>9844569
>Like all intelligent people, Carl Jung hated the Jews.
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>>9844280
how is the debt paying going on man
projecting isn't going to do anything
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>>9844742
dialectics a thing no doubt.
it depends to my mind on *what you call it* tho. i'm also starting to finally understand why i am so heavy on the tao & the stoics also. it all has to do with time. capitalism also; but i think this is the endgame of capital. just this. pic del
there is much more to say about this and i am compiling an utterly insane file on my PC about this & some other stuff.
so basically: what's more Interesting to you - acquiring CTRL, or emancipating yourself from the CTRL of the other?
lots to talk about w/r/t *games* here also but i have to make a kind of strident effort to keep my thoughts in one place on this stuff. enantiodromics tho. holy hannah what a thought. i think this is why zen &c is so good for us. Time. the present moment and such. or time understood dialectically, mechanically...
just too interesting, this stuff. just too darn interesting.
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>>9844878
consider, for example, what it would mean for Skynet to understand dialectics more than us meatbags...which, if we are going to start getting into the later sequences of the phenomenology, and doubting if we can *really* be sure that we know what we know...
what if the bots have a better handle on dialectics than we do? wat do? don't answer this, it's not a serious question. just girardfag doing girardfag things.
i know this sounds crazy. it almost certainly *is* crazy. which is why it is going in fiction and not in theory. what will go into theory: a lot of stuff about CTRL and games and such. heidegger. deleuze. lacan. baudrillard. land. maybe CTRL > capital. and Time.
lots and lots and lots about Time.
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>>9844878
>acquiring CTRL, or emancipating yourself from the CTRL of the other
These are the same thing. The only true freedom from CTRL is to have CTRL over everything around you. Anarchists are just baffled dictators.
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>the underage dumb tripfag likes Jung
Literally the worst poster I ever seen on here
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>>9844912
wish I could dm u mane, ur cool af mad respek to ur wide, deep, and clearly sensitive reading
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>>9844940
>He doesn't know the difference between a namefag and a tripfag
Is he really underage? He's too full of shit for me to believe he's underage
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>>9844549
LSD or meditation.
>>9844809
Essential Jung and the Jung Reader are pretty good. A lot of people start with Memories, Dreams, Reflections or Modern Man in Search of a Soul -- bit more casual. He has an early work on Psychology of Occultism (Collected Works I or II IIRC). Psychology and Alchemy would also be relevant to your interests. Of course, IMO, Aion is his masterwork. Red Book is mostly a meme.
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>>9844949
If he's not actually underage he may as well be. He its clearly his one of his first manic episodes, I would think someone older in his condition would have been too embarrassed and self loathing by now after a crash.
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>>9844878
>so basically: what's more Interesting to you - acquiring CTRL, or emancipating yourself from the CTRL of the other?
These are the same thing. The more you emancipate yourself the more control you possess over yourself and by extension others.
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>>9844932
>these are the same thing.
disagree. Law a thing. somebody has a high card. inequality a thing. relativity a thing. gravity a thing. density a thing.
>the only true freedom from CTRL is to have CTRL over everything around you.
disagree. mightily. unless you're talking bataille, in which case you have CTRL over everything right up until the time when you need to be sacrificed.
is having CTRL over everything around you really going to make you free? sounds like it would be a 24/7 job to me. unless of course you had the mad wu-wei skills to go along with. and again this is why i think the tao a thing. but imho that's the cherry on the sundae of a lot of dialectics
>inb4 you haven't studied hegel
this is true. i'm still working on him. good thing i'm not a philosopher & am only a neurotic tripfag.
i know this sounds crazy. again: it *is* crazy for now. my IRL project will be to un-crazify it. and sell all of 25 copies. this will make more sense when it becomes translated into third-rate pulp fiction
>anarchists are just baffled dictators
and vice-versa. bafflement tho. much else.
>>9844944
i'm a terminally broken weirdo & shitposting all-star on a tanzanian bowling shoe form. trust me when i say you're not missing much
>>9844940
you say that like it's a bad thing
>>9844964
>too embarrassed and self loathing by now
like you would not believe
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>>9844964
Not the anon you were reaponding to, but that would be my guess to. Manic episode crash imminent.
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>>9844912
The world is not worth saving. Become an aporetic hermetic gnostic platonist. Find that which is truth and beauty and goodness and bother not with pomo sophism.
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>>9844970
>these are the same thing
okay. yes. but
>The more you emancipate yourself the more control you possess over yourself and by extension others
that line between emancipation and oppression tho.
my freedom > your freedom
your freedom > my freedom
&c.
of course there's nothing new here, really. all of this has been said and done before: power, all of it. i just like that eastern stuff because i think describes the correct attitude to have w/r/t Time, a Time which is basically always up for grabs. Aion/Chronos.
if the spice must flow, and land is right about stuff, the buddha & laozi & their disciples have the right attitude. tie camel, trust in god. stuff like this. what i have long suspected but capital & acceleration were more interesting to think about.
CTRL is the thing. more even than capital perhaps. and games. games are pretty exciting also.
>>9844990
>manic episode crash imminent
nah. had those already. now it's mainly just about internalizing the weirdness & hoping to be employee of the month three months running
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>>9844982
>is having CTRL over everything around you really going to make you free? sounds like it would be a 24/7 job to me
The ability to control everything =/= you have to control everything. If you could control everything you wouldn't have to worry about anything, or you could worry about as much as you wanted. What duty does the all-powerful have? None, you could actively take part in as much or as little as you want.
I'm not going to even try to address the rest of your post, it's all obscurantism or undeserved dick-stroking.
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>>9845016
Emancipation from all oppression, as you seem to conceive it, is a wet dream. The philosophical equivalent of the spiritual goal of escaping rebirth. What we need to do is make our games hurt less. Then we can have consentplay on the holographic playground.
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>>9845014
>the world is not worth saving
it's not that it's not worth saving, it's that it can't be saved all of a piece. heidegger was right: care. the parts you don't care about wind up coming back to bother you in other irritating ways. we can't grasp time, time grasps us.
>inb4 wow man u r so deep
but we can't always hole up in todtnauberg. have to go out in the world also. for reasons explained by land and in ways explained by deleuze. things get all squishy then & skew with one's desire for a dream of butterflies.
>Become an aporetic hermetic gnostic platonist.
yes.
>Find that which is truth and beauty and goodness and bother not with pomo sophism.
that's the plan
>>9845023
>The ability to control everything =/= you have to control everything.
*true* - but the thing with capital is, Moar. so it does not equal, but Desire, yo. you could have more. or maybe you want to shed some. much else. and maybe somebody higher up is paying you to control everything. stuff like this. not really disagreeing with you, i think we're agreeing.
>If you could control everything you wouldn't have to worry about anything
does not compute. you might just as much have to worry about *everything.* maybe the shareholders expect you to
>or you could worry about as much as you wanted
that's the thing tho. worry is not optional. if it was it would not be worry
>What duty does the all-powerful have?
read bataille
>None, you could actively take part in as much or as little as you want.
that's the *dream* - but i think only serious wu-wei or buddhism or stoicism gets there. it's why i like those things.
>i'm not going to even try to address the rest of your post
probably a good idea
>it's all obscurantism or undeserved dick-stroking
objectively true
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>>9845049
>Emancipation from all oppression, as you seem to conceive it, is a wet dream.
it *is* a wet dream but this is my point. i *don't* believe this is possible. i *do* think that this is a marked gnostic tendency which leads to much mimetic fuckery
>The philosophical equivalent of the spiritual goal of escaping rebirth.
exactly yes. but maybe, tho, that is what makes it un-philosophical, or simply ignorant of enantiodromics.
not like i'm shilling this intriguing concept too much. what i am wondering is just how much of the reason why laozi or heraclitus or the others make the butterflies in our stomachs feel good
>and if you are not one of these individuals, that too is fine, everyone is different, &c, &c
is because it describes the correct ontological comportment to a world of change.
nb: i fucking *hate* change. i have had *too much* chaos. but i am also well-aware that i can be an absolute control freak over things that i do not really understand. hence the philosophy & analysis stuff. it points me back to flaky new age cosmic bullshit & other stuff. and mimetics. warrants mentioning? might as well.
>what we need to do is make our games hurt less
not a crazy idea. let's start by understanding why virtual experiences somehow manage to trigger us in the first place, maybe
>then we can have consentplay on the holographic playground
sounds ok. reality has its charms also
anyways. here to preach no gospel. just liking the jung + heraclitus stuff.
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>>9844982
>disagree. mightily. unless you're talking bataille, in which case you have CTRL over everything right up until the time when you need to be sacrificed.
Ostensibly, we're supposed to be talking about Jung. Lol. Regardless, must he hedge everything behind thinkers? Is there synthesis in addition to the regurgitation? Understanding of course that's the difficult part.
>is having CTRL over everything around you really going to make you free? sounds like it would be a 24/7 job to me. unless of course you had the mad wu-wei skills to go along with. and again this is why i think the tao a thing.
You have a 24/7 job anyways, no? Being controlled or controlling, your actions are still contingent on others.
What do you seen in the tao? I recently read Tao Te Ching and was not too impressed. Too submissive, too life-denying to be a how-to-live guide. I'm more okay with its metaphysics, but it's still foreign and a little kooky if you ask me.
Can't capitalism both be an agent of control AND liberation?
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>>9845082
Your Daddy thinks you're a useless dumb dumb and he's right
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>>9845055
> Moar. so it does not equal, but Desire,
Well yeah I'm not arguing against the fact that most people always want more. But maybe that says something about freedom. If complete freedom is the ability to gain anything you ever could, then maybe most people don't need freedom because most people wouldn't know what to do with nothing left to be desired.
>that's the thing tho. worry is not optional. if it was it would not be worry
Worry is optional, most people just don't realize the reality they live in. Drowning is not optional if you lay down in a full bathtub, but what if you were to stand up above it all?
>read bataille
I'm not familiar with his thought, but I have a long reading list so I probably won't anytime soon desu
>does not compute. you might just as much have to worry about *everything.* maybe the shareholders expect you to
What shareholders? I'm not talking about the CEO of a corporation, someone with complete totalitarian control is beholden to no shareholders. And that's what we're talking about here. Complete freedom is theoretical, and the only way to achieve complete freedom is to become the complete dictator.
>that's the *dream* - but i think only serious wu-wei or buddhism or stoicism gets there. it's why i like those things.
You'd probably like the Bardo Thodol too.
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>>9845086
>Ostensibly, we're supposed to be talking about Jung
yes. and i have no wish to hijack this thread and turn it into another Girardfag Speaks thing. have done that plenty. /lit/ neither my soapbox nor my blog. and this all belongs in weird fuckface fiction & in cryptic messages scrawled on bathroom stalls in dive bars.
>Regardless, must he hedge everything behind thinkers?
he must. it's a form of shorthand. otherwise i wouldn't be able to talk about the fun stuff
>and basically just be a fucking goofball pseud, which is what i am
>feels good tho
>Is there synthesis in addition to the regurgitation?
there is. CTRL. and deleuze on the societies of the same. what capital wants and how it is we can come to understand this process. my own personal doomsday quest for enlightenment & anonymity & relief from thinking about this shit.
>Being controlled or controlling, your actions are still contingent on others.
yes. and i dislike this. i don't want to control or be controlled. life being what it is this is hard to avoid without Fuck You money. i do not have Fuck You money. i have a wi-fi connection and various addictions and obsessions and absolutely no fucking life whatsoever beyond books.
>What do you seen in the tao?
absolute balls-out pants-on-head retarded wisdom. heraclitus also. and the stoics. how to get along with Nature. philosophy as political science & the reverse. much else.
>Can't capitalism both be an agent of control AND liberation?
it is. which is what fucks us up. conflicting signals, mixed messages. the two modalities of time: ontic/ontological, chronos/aion, money/commodity. much else.
wat do. can't phenomenologize all the way: heidegger too has his limits. can't revolutionize all the way: muh Revolution. *can* deleuzify all the way.
but i would still prefer something like a cozy middle-class life. i like writing about games. i would rather be a cool anonymous dude w/an RRSP and a house rather than what i am now. people accomplish these things. schizophrenia isn't the only way forward.
>>9845088
>your Daddy thinks you're a useless dumb dumb and he's right
he usually is
>>9845120
>most people don't need freedom because most people wouldn't know what to do with nothing left to be desired
desire desires to desire. peeps would rather will nothing than not will at all. it's what we do
>worry is optional
i wish
>what if you were to stand up above it all?
it would destroy your mind. unless you are a true ubermenschen. which i am not. i'm untermenschen all day. love & support ubermenschen projects but i am a confirmed becoming-mole kind of guy
>someone with complete totalitarian control is beholden to no shareholders
stalin still had to look good. all dictators do. everyone is beholden to the crowd base
>complete freedom is theoretical
disagree. mystical
(cont'd)
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>Not talking about dis grand man
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>>9845139
>desire desires to desire.
Absolute drivel
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How bout for some synthesis instead of namedropping, girardfag. How can one reconcile Jung and Lacan?
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>>9845139
You can always Plato all the way :^)
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>>9844280
Yes! yes! That makes sense, shitposting bait! obvious projecting! it all makes perfect sense now!
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>>9845120
>and the only way to achieve complete freedom is to become the complete dictator
disagree. bigly. you may also want freedom *from* being the complete dictator. that was the message of pic rel. and bataille. and i think nietzsche also but i have no wish to attempt to say what nietzsche really meant. he means a lot of things, which is why theory keeps going back to that well
despotism & dictatorship - Hortatory, to use a reference from something aesthetic & fun - is what D&G were working on. that's what runs capital. land picks up on this. all things tech to my mind are just the universe of repression writ large & coming to return to haunt us. we make tech & all that comes with it & capital too & that is why we are so fucked up with it. from prometheus to frankenstein. the central motif of our beloved homo faber West.
and i *do* like the west. i sincerely do. i don't think this way because i hate the west, i think this way because much of what i read comes out of it and has molded the way i think. taking Nick Land's Wild Ride means passing by a lot of western guys.
but to get *off* that ride? i like the chinese & the buddhists. the stoics also; they're greek buddhists. nondualism is good. heidegger always has a big reception in japan (and lacan says, ofc, 'you can't psychoanalyze these people!').
so that's the thing. capitalism a thing. my feeling: CTRL. CTRL is how it is. these two modes of time, much else. what is the right disposition to take v/all of that? based taoist coolness.
anyways. this is a jung thread. only meant to say how much i can into jung b/c jung can into heraclitus & heraclitus can into enantiodromia, which imho means yielding, and yielding is the Way.
and the Way > CTRL. until the killer robots arrive and fuck up the monastery. and so on.
>>9845164
desire is the desire of the other. the world is not a matter of indifference. period. if heidegger, hegel, lacan, baudrillard and girard aren't your bag - and they will all say variations on the same thing, that there is no consciousness of self without consciousness of the other - that's fine. personally? i think they were probably on to something. desire a thing.
>>9845174
>How can one reconcile Jung and Lacan?
i'm not so well-read in jung that i could do this and not make a complete disaster out of it. i have ten-cent theories by the cartload but obv this will not suffice.
i will say this tho: lacan's urge for the analysand to traverse the symbolic order & thereby work out their own hysterical bullshit dovetails pretty nicely with all things monomythic & heavily-laden with jungian alchemical symbolism. especially when we see it onscreen at the movies.
>>9845184
i prefer heraclitus. dem guardians: gives me a fucking headache. allegory of the cave tho: not the craziest idea.
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>>9845204
>desire is the desire of the other
I don't think you've the slightest notion what that means. Literally just parroting slogans
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>>9845209
Keep in mind the neuroblastoma is trying to hold together Deleuze's autonomous machine désirante and Girard's denial of the autonomy of desire. He's stupid as shit.
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>>9844224
Jung has the one thing over Freud that really matters.He was completely right
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>>9845209
>I don't think you've the slightest notion what that means. Literally just parroting slogans
me on the right. totally obliterated
>>9845216
>Keep in mind the neuroblastoma is trying to hold together Deleuze's autonomous machine désirante and Girard's denial of the autonomy of desire
that is quite correct & explains a great deal
>also tfw neuroblastoma. i can't even be mad
>He's stupid as shit.
objectively true
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>>9844289
>collective unconscious
You literally cannot refute the collective unconscious. It's the observation of the common modes of and ways of thinking shared among all mankind. If you want to be reductionist you can state it's due to the structures of the brain (reptile brain producing fears, etc)
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>>9844809
Either The Undiscovered Self (Small book, not too complex) or Man and His Symbols (made specifically in response to public outcry for an accessible book explaining his theories)
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>>9845232
No its much simpler and straightforward than that. There are only individuals with their individual subconscious minds. A collective simply can not have a subconscious which Jung literally believed and so much of his work is staked on.
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>>9845244
>it doesn't believe because I don't believe in it
Ahhhh the Descartes argument
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>>9845244
is the death drive a characteristic of the individual or the species
is having a personal unconscious a characteristic of the individual or the species
is having a brain a characteristic of the individual or the species
fucking retard
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>>9845255
There are only individuals. The species is merely an abstract category completely subordinate to the individuals from which it is inferred. If we say something is characteristic of a species we say that it is common to all individuals of it.
However the unconscious is by definition personal to the individual.
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>>9845267
Gas all Relativists, Ideology War Now
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>>9845267
>The species is merely an abstract category completely subordinate to the individuals from which it is inferred.
the species is the process without which no human individual could be born
you're not a bacterium you just think like one
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>>9845204
and so wat do? wat do when multiple & interconnecting & overlapping desires? There Can Only Be One? some say yes. being rather less awesome i defer to a cool sagely conversation.
interesting how in this case the sages didn't wind up in a mimetic death-struggle. somehow they all might have been correct. or maybe some are correct sometimes & other times less so. one gets the impression that this is going to be a long argument.
so can into. only one thing is perhaps missing to make the picture complete: turn the vinegar cauldron into a giant terminator skull with the word Oedipus-1000 engraved into its forehead and to have the vinegar boiling in there.
depth psych, jungian *or* freudian: how *does* that vinegar smell to you? please stop tearing up my office, it's just a question. it stinks: ok. it smells great: ok. give me the answer, tell me how it smells &c: unfortunately not an option.
your therapist can't do much more than this, i think. the west is into individualism & the east is more into collectivism. excessively individualized: try collectivizing. excessively collectivized: try individualizing.
>the empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. thus it has ever been
the *romance* of the three kingdoms, tho. love & war. so good. so darn interesting.
anyways. that's it. on with jung.
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>>9845297
>Nonsense, the only thing that it takes for a human to be born is two individual humans fucking.
because he's subordinate to the species and not the other way around
are you sure you're not a creationist
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>>9845267
People should be skeptical of posters like this who promote militant individualism. Whites don't need this natural inclination exacerbated even more than jews do to us already.
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>>9845309
You're speaking horseshit, all of evolution for every single creature that has ever existed from humans to the aids virus in your ass is a tracable series of individuals reproducing. At absolutely no point is there a necessary reference to an identity of a species that is not merely a circumstancially convenient to descriptively account for certain genetic bottlenecks. To act as if at any point on that line an individuals existence is subordinate to such a label is utterly deluded Neo-Platonism
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>>9845322
the label is nothing but a translation into ordinary language of what turned out to be a combination of genetic information, which exists outside the dictionary, and prevents hybridization with other species, you closet creationist
and all jung did was to claim a tendency to form representations was one of the features present in this one
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>>9845322
Neoplatonism is the most correct philosophy.
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>>9845322
>Sheep and goats can't make babies
I bet the Neoplatonists did this
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>>9845358
No he didn't, he very clearly states he believes the representations exist outside all individual humans and are universally innate regardless of personal experience and constitution of them that persists throughout all cultures from urban Hong Kong to tribal Amazonians.
Its absolutely essential to the notion of him as a specific school of thought otherwise he'd be nothing but a mundane anthropologist.
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>>9845370
They can actually, if not very good babies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep%E2%80%93goat_hybrid
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>>9844289
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology
>typically Freud fanboys
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>>9845297
>utterly denying the existence of objective abstractions and prejudicing in favor of a fiat declaration that only the subjective exists
>not relativism
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>>9844549
I think the main way was dream analysis in Jung's writings, although there could be other ways that I don't recall specifically
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>>9845386
ctrl + F "archtypes" on that page and tell me how many results show up
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>>9845389
Calling objective abstractions, objective abstractions is not denying them Anon, its simply recognizing the implications of what that term implies
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>>9845406
That's cause experimental psychologists hate Freud and Jung, so they just take their ideas and put it in other terminology to distance themselves because they're deemed "unscientific"
The word "archetype" is just a label Jung used to describe common aspects of personality that is present in anyone (i.e., the collective unconscious).
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>>9845414
You'll note I never said they "exist", they certainly do not in the sense in which individuals exist. They're a hypothesis. An idea. A logical proposition. One that infact could be shown to be false as many times in the past individual species were divided and combined based on new evidence.
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>>9845382
it's the same thing with studies trying to get hinnies to be born in order to study them, they fail repeatedly because of what biology calls reproductive isolation, they die before they can even be born
shall we blame plotinus and porphyry for this or being so distant as species they have a different number of chromosomes
>>9845379
>outside all individual humans
you mean inside
do instincts exist outside your cat lmao
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Let's talk about the synchronicity.
I'll share an experience I had recently that made me think, maybe that is what Jung was talking about.
I was thinking to my self... "with God anything is possible... I wonder what he meant by that" and then on T.V. they do a story on a guy called Mr. Impossible, with who anything is possible. Coincidence? Maybe...
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>>9845425
>i'm not denying them i'm just saying they don't exist except when i say they do
relativists confirmed baseless sophists
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>>9845426
No outside, which is the fundamental delusion of Jung. If it was otherwise he would never have detached from Freud.
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>>9845440
you never read either
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>>9845439
You're the one being a sophist, surely you can recognize the difference between the way Hamlet "exists" and the way your next door neighbor exists.
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>>9845442
Project more kiddo
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>>9845447
Hamlet exists no matter which way you want to discuss existence. There was a historical Hamlet who Shakespeare based the work on, the play itself physically exists as a script, it exists as an expression of the mind, it exists within the canon of literature, etc. Stop trying to taint me with your sophistry.
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>>9845449
[citation needed]
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In my dreams I'm always banging my ex. What is my anima saying here?
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>>9845460
She's not speaking and you're ignoring her
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>>9845454
Yes and thats simply my point, the collective unconscious "exists" in relation to an individual's subconscious in the same way Homer Simpson exists in relation to real people. Its a purely logical construct, it can perhaps individuals process their thoughts and emotions but to think it actually literally reflects how we think is laughable.
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>>9845460
You don't talk to women and suppress your sexual expressions towards them
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>>9845468
I'm not arguing for a physical structure to exist out in the world, that's ridiculous. The collective unconscious exists in the same way as the personal unconscious, hylomorphically.
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>>9845477
Embrace your sexuality, express yourself. Don't just jerk off to pictures on your screen
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>>9845477
At least you're not murdering your ex over being too jelly and mad. I guess that's an improvement.
No matter how you look at it, you're too attached and need to move on. The Anima could help you but you aren't giving a shit about her. Stop searching for points of similarity with your ex whenever you see the other sex. Do the Steve Jobs thing for once and think different
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>>9845475
Thats nonsense, the personal unconscious actually does exist as in the world, namely we as individual minds are that observable phenomenon. Utterly immutable and undeniably immanent.
As opposed to the collective which is just a fairytale. A cute idea for what is a far more complex reality.
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>>9845503
With the rare exceptions of extra chromosomes which you may have there is clearly a collective unconscious as well.
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>>9845503
>Utterly immutable
Who said it's immutable, again?
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>>9845503
That's only an example of the Ego. Demonstrate to me clear proof of the personal unconscious as something definitively existing in a way that cannot also be used to support the collective unconscious.
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>>9845517
Using the most blunt form of demonstration available Neuroscience in its clumsy toddler form is already making it clear that the Cognitivist notion of the ego being the extent of the mind is clearly false.
But then this is an unserious argument to begin with
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>>9845527
You've yet to demonstrate your point, only allude to it and assert you're very well supported. I'm asking you to display that. Of course it's entirely possible you'll try to turn around and attack me for support of the collective unconscious but that would just be a diversionary attempt to skirt out of having to support your argument. Please do not assume bad faith on my part, it's only reflective of your position on this discussion.
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>>9845530
The point is at this juncture is that the personal unconscious is very necessary to account for the phenomena we observe between the decisions people make right down to the brainscans. Whereas there is absolutely no need to ever reference a collective subconscious in accounting for phenomena, at any people at which it is referenced it can be demonstrated to simply being parrelel thoughts or interactions between individual unconscious minds.
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holy fuck this girardfag is insufferable
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>>9845541
Because an infinity of parallels across space and time is so much simpler than a select few features being shared
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>>9845565
Exactly and unfortunately life is that complicated and the simpler explanation while more comforting is not explanative.
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>>9845569
You know nothing, Jon Snow
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Shit thread
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>>9845555
hey i didn't even talk about what happens if you take political progressivism out of dialectics & sheng-ji yang & much else
>because i mean then you would get a continual evolution of consciousness not to be transformed once & forever into politics
>& what if the great moment is not coming, but has always-already happened & is only waiting for you to catch up with it
>sounds pretty cool to me
i have been on here a bit much, it's true. it's why i gotta disappear from /lit/ for a while, or at least restrict myself to a much much smaller amount of time here. my original aim was to do that as of august. it will def happen by september if not sooner. otherwise there will be dire consequences for what remains of my IRL life. i *do* have to quit this place for an extended period of time. so maybe the timing is right for it
not permanently, ofc. this place is too much fun. just for an extended break. and i think i've more or less begun to repeat myself at this point anyhow
/lit/ is great tho. it well & truly is. it's been wonderful being an insufferable shitposting namefag here
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>>9845585
>it's why i gotta disappear from /lit/ for a while
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>>9845585
and, incidentally, i don't actually mean that quote to mean what you probably think it means: that i don't care about yours or anyone else's suffering. it's just a quote that i find particularly interesting, from a game full of particularly interesting quotes.
it's quite the opposite, really. the fact is that i care a little bit too much. and probably in the wrong ways also.
it's *less* suffering & mimetic shit-flinging in the world that i'm all about. not more. can't do much about it from the donut shop. hence the psychoanalysis & girard &c.
felt that warranted mentioning so i didn't come across as a sadist retard or an autist one. not my bag.
>>9845592
yep. it's finally going to happen. all good things. try to contain your excitement.
pic rel of course.
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>>9844280
The collective unconscious is just what's universal to human thought.
Our brains have evolved to speak language, for example.
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Buddha + Moses + Hermes + Christ + Lao Tzu + Zhuangzi + Parmenides + Plato + Aristotle + Plotinus + Proclus + Kant + Schelling + Hegel + Nietzsche + Jung + Lacan + Nishida = bae philosophy
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>>9845657
Then why bother add the qualifier collective, why not just speak of the unconscious?
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>>9845673
>no Heraclitus
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>>9845678
Because repressed feelings are not inherited and you never read Freud
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>>9845684
Freud didn't believe in the collective unconscious friend
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>>9845673
>tfw STILL on the greeks
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>>9844189
good literary critic and historian, idiotic psychologist
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>>9845673
Take away all of these but Jesus
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>>9844280
the amount of ressentiment replying to this post is unreal
you're spot on dude
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>>9845232
such an """observation""" can only be made by neglecting the radical heterogeneity of societies across the world before capitalism
jung is a perfect ideologue, preaching the sameness of the world to better prepare us for meltdown into late capitalist grey goop
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>>9845555
Not quite as insufferable as you though.
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>>9845673
jung p much covers all of them except the enlightenment era guys and lacan
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>>9844280
i jack off to mom-son erotica constantly so i think i have a pretty good idea
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>>9846021
You have no clue what ressentiment is. Nietzsche would've beat the shit of this guy.
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>>9845440
Yes, they do exist outside of humans. The idea, so far as I understand it, is that the conscious mind receives information from the unconscious in the form of symbols. These symbols therefore exist *outside* of human consciousness, though still within the objective assemblage that is the psyche. That is, the building blocks of human meaning are given to conscious processes from without. On this account, Jung declares that symbolic visions are "the world speaking." Something like that.
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>>9845733
>many images and symbols recur across countless civilizations prior to any explainable contact
>hurrr it's capitalism's fault
gas all leftists desu. 1789 was a mistake.
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>>9846517
He also would have called you anons faggots for bickering like women over someone using a name. At least that guy is contributing real, word count limit pushing posts, and a lot of them, as opposed to your one liner memes and petty remarks.
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>>9846517
Nietzsche would have passed out from standing up too fast
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>>9845690
He believed avoidance of unpleasure or a production of pleasure to be universal to all and instinctual, he didn't just give different names for characteristics of unconscious that are shared by all and others that are contingent upon the patient's personal history. Funny how it was the later Freud to investigate more and more the non-personal
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>>9846992
Because he was getting BTFO by Jung and had to patch up his ramshackle theory
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>>9844280
all the replies serve to vindicate him
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>>9846852
>real, word count limit pushing posts
He's a retard emboldened by people even more retarded than him encouraging him such as yourself.
If this was a real life conversation he'd already have been exposed. For anyone who's actually well read in philosophy, it's painfully obvious how much he isn't.
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>>9846852
>a post with a lot of words is a good post
You'd enjoy talking with cleverbot then
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>>9847728
>If this was a real life conversation he'd already have been exposed.
they call him...the Conversator.
seriously, 'exposed?' who gives a flying fuck?
>you've been encouraged too much
you know what else i enjoy? *giving* encouragement. big fan of encouragement. like it a lot. i think it's going places. good scene. just like everything about it.
fuck exposure. in the 21C. listen closely: *there is nothing there to Expose.* this is life on planet meme: given the sponge to wipe away the horizon. wat do? wat do.
>What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning?
hey, here's a crazy idea. about that horizon. how about we *consider re-horizoning.* and i can already feel a strong vibe of Lol You Don't Understand Nietzsche as i write this.
cynicism *sucks.* ressentiment *sucks.* what i like? Hey, How About This. a cool & sagely conversation. dem vinegar tasters. dat school of athens. can into.
it's why i'm all about girard. the deal today isn't Sexy Philosopher vs Fuckface Pseud over the soul of the Gotham-polis. more like a fucking post-apoc wasteland of scavengers heading nowhere in gasmasks made to filter out the toxic miasma of total relativism. through which *also* stalks no small number of homeless fuckfacepilled Guardians who will shoot first and ask questions later for reasons they do not understand.
me? i prefer *disarmament.* i prefer an interesting & engaging conversation between individuals *excited to talk about what interests them* and *not so much inclined to immediately pull the trigger when confronted with a new idea.*
none of us are in the republic anymore my guy. none of us. it is a bombed-out hiroshima. life amidst the ruins. maybe there is still some life down there in the bomb shelters: *far* below the surface. on the surface: death. and all kinds of lost post-apoc wilderness scavengers.
i like politeness. i like etiquette. i like grace & tact & charm & refinement & comedy. i like a *light touch.* i like that. i like cool coolness. not so much: Exposing Teh Soodz. 99.9999999% of everything is pseud.
benefit of the doubt. philosophical charity. disarmament. unclenching sphincters. *steelmanning and not strawmanning.* much much else. i like philosophy in the age of apocalypse. i like that wasteland salvage ops program. i like antifragility. i like Getting the Band Back Together with no final Band Together event-horizon even remotely in sight. i like it anyways.
i sincerely & not partially hope you find that based philosophical conversation you are looking for anon.
>keep ithaka always in your mind
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>>9847953
just sign up on Reddit already you pathetic fag
there's nothing I can say to you from here that'll make you feel worse than actually having to be you holy shit
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>>9847976
>there's nothing I can say to you from here that'll make you feel worse than actually having to be you holy shit
and there it is. there it fucking is. the absolute quintessence of the situation: you think it's about you trying to make me feel *worse,* and *i think* it's about me *trying to make you feel better.* this is why we are disagreeing. that is the fucking equation writ large.
the problem is that *you are putting nothing on the table.* you are venturing nothing. not a thing. me? serving lunch. whatever i have fucking scavenged from the wasteland. it's just there on the table: have some. it's fucking *free.* no strings attached. why am i doing this? because maybe *you* have mapped a little more of the post-apoc wasteland out there and maybe if we talk about it i can make a few updates to *my* map.
you know what post i liked? this:
>>9847033
>You should want to read EVERYTHING and you should BE EXCITED ABOUT THIS. Any time you catch yourself becoming content with how you can rattle off a few plausible-sounding esoteric tidbits, force yourself to become vomitously horrified at that realization until you permanently associate it with traumatic pain. Otherwise you will plateau and it will fade into being Just A Hobby like everything else in this useless fucking post-capitalist existence.
that's how it is homeslice. the girardfag wasteland truckstop cafe. please leave your weapons in the box.
i mean i get it. i get it that it's fun to Wreck Faces With Logic. capture the flag, defend the citadel, or whatever. it's just not my bag anymore. i find it tedious and stupid and boring. you win: so what. i win: so what. who gives a fuck. you re-confirm the paradigms of that which you already know.
there really isn't much more to say in this vein. i'm not trying to convert you to anything. but we aren't seeing the same picture. but hey, if you like cynical shitposting that's fun too. its just that all i have in return will be half-baked oatmeal cookies and big smiles. no guns or traps. no killer robots. no withering ad hominem. no airstrikes.
because what would be the fucking point, is what i'm saying. what would be the fucking point.
i wish you the best of luck in the wasteland my guy. i sincerely do. no memes, no hard feeling, no nothing. just cool philosophical adventures. come back and share sometime. it's horrible and it's wonderful. in the absence of any philosophers you like that i could offer something more substantial w/r/t i will only encourage you personally. come back and destroy my cheap plastic furniture again sometime.
have we said enough? more? can we part amicably? is that an option? can i salute your intelligence?
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>it's another "girardfag posts everyone responds to him and a perfectly good Jung thread is derailed" thread
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>>9848904
>renewed shall be thread that was broken,
>the (you)less again shall be king.
consider me shamed then. please talk about jung & may the de-railed be re-railed. i will move my memefagging over to the neoplatonism thread
>>9846871
>where i am basically doing the same thing
>& yes it *is* because i am a meme schizoposter w/delusions of mediocrity. yes. it is true. yes
Please Talk About Jung You Guys
I Mean It
Talk About Jung
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