Is he right about E-books?

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>>9843966
Yes they are and those who question are plebeans who should work the fields instead of reading.
YOU HEARD ME E-BOOK FAGS?! WORK THE FUCKING FIELDS! SUSTAIN MY LUXUARY FOR I AM YOUR LANDLORD!

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Just arm yourselves with knowledge brothers

Even Ergo Proxy is better than this shit

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>>9843966
>that dub
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

>>9845952
Absolute brainlet. Psycho Pass was an amazing sci-fi trip, every episode deals with themes and questions made famous by stories like Johnny Mnemonic or Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. Of course that's not all, that whole scene in the OP is a Proust reference. The antagonist, Makishima is himself a giant nod to Nietzsche in his own dark humanist way. I deeply enjoyed it, it reminded me of one philosophy course I took where we read sci fi stories to explore philosophical ideas and questions, like the brain in the vat, or A Sound of Thunder. PP has considerably more depth than most animes and isn't even based on any source material like a manga, it's an original idea.

>>9846035
I implore you to calm down.

Kids raised on both e-books and physical books prefer physical books, they're better for memorisation, it's easier to take certain kinds of notes with them, they have an aesthetic quality, they are renewable and don't rely on rare earth metals that china has a monopoly on, they have less issues around DRM and such, 1 book costs less than 1 e-reader which is a huge advantage if you're mostly reading 1 book, they allow high resolution vivid color images without backlights.
At any price with an unlimited amount of storage, paper books are superior overall.

The advantages of e-readers, and just devices with screens generally, are obvious enough. Where they really excel is reading while travelling. The death of paper books is as much as a meme as the death of the paperless office because paper simply has too many fucking advantages. People overestimate how much people who look at screens all day at work, go home and relax in front of a screen, desire sitting in front of yet another screen.

Board games similarity had a bit of a comeback in part because of the advantages of physical with a lot of people that played video games picking them up, despite owning 100 board games being far more expensive and taking up far more space than owning 100 video games. Despite the existence of portable gaming systems and smartphone games you can play with friends that you meet. Despite the fact you can say, load up chess on a computer, and conveniently play it online for free, people go to a club, bring a chessboard they paid money for, and play against meatsacks. Similarly, I see people going to their library, picking up a book to read, often reading it IN the library, rather than simply downloading an ebook for free more conveniently. Fancy that, people acting so irrationally.

P.S. Jesus CHRIST that dub is ear gratingly fucking bad. It sounds like they recorded the lines one at a time. The VA should be shot.

>>9846440
>1 book costs less than 1 e-reader
in my country, in second-hand bookstores I can get literally 25~45 used books with the price of a cheap e-reader. not to mention you could always trade the books you don't want to keep, possibly raising that number even more

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>>9846035

is she wearing tights UNDER thigh-high socks

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>>9843966
I prefer physical books but my goddam library is huge already.

Last night I downloaded 50 ebooks that I can read on my laptop or have on my phone with me wherever I go. I read my choice of literature as I wait in line at the checkout.

>>9846486
relax. it was probably cold outside

>>9846473
you can get a lifetime's worth of books for free trough piracy. main reason i bought an e-reader.

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>>9846505

>>9846035
Psycho-Pass wasnt even that good. Better than most anime that come out, but the character tropes were simply generic and the plot was very expected. Anime isn't supposed to be deep. Deep shit in anime sucks anyway.

E-readers advantage is pirating obscure books that would cost a lot to purchase

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>>9846035
The story underlying psychopass was predictable and honestly kind of shallow in depth. It didn't have a very deeply engaging plot or very deeply developed characters.

My vote for an anime with /lit/ merit.

>>9846507
This.

The Jew blood in me demands the cheapest course in life.

>>9846035
Really I thought the only thing psycho-pass had going for it was atmosphere, it actually had a fairly good one.

Psycho-pass was passable, but mediocre ultimately. It will be quickly forgotten.

>>9843966
Makishima was the only good thing about Psycho Pass. The series went to shit after he died.

>>9846794
it's basically the anime version of The Sea Wolf

E-book fags are the biggest plebs.

>>9846710
>>>9846530
>implying you even understood it

>he character tropes were simply generic and the plot was very expected
I don't recall ever encountering a sociopathic Jesus figure before. Find me a link for that on tvtropes? It was pretty damn novel and asked real questions about morality and justice, which is more than most anime or even books can say.

And the plot? I invite you to describe it. I wonder if you faggots even realize that Makishima won in the end?

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>>9846975
>I don't recall ever encountering a sociopathic Jesus figure before.

If we're using "Jesus figure" that loosely, pic related, and that series did it better.

>>9847024
How is Light a Jesus figure? He never had any intention of sacrificing himself, he was just a megalomaniac. The two are nothing alike, and he certainly doesn't resemble Makishima either. Did you get confused because they both kill people and are from an anime?

The term isn't being used loosely at all, you're just retarded.

>>9846473
>>9846507
It's not just price of books but rarity. E-books opens up a whole new way to get a ton of shit you'd normally never find or have to order for premium prices somewhere. If you're an ultra casual going all physical is fine but when you start getting specific interests and diving deep into things, wanting certain translations and so on, the price and availability plummets.

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>>9847041
How is Makashima a jesus figure? Remotely? He's also a megalomaniac, but unlike Light, doesn't have worshippers. There is a truckload of people closer to a Jesus figure than Makashima.

The titular character from Akira is closer

Lelouch from Code Geass is closer if you consider the end of the second series the true ending.

Goku from Dragonball is closer

I think Tenma from Monster might be the absolute closest I've ever seen to a "Jesus Figure". Certainly moreso than a philosophising megalomaniac sadist like Makishima who is far far closer to Lucifer than Jesus.

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>>9847071
He is nothing resembling a megalomaniac, hell, the scene in the OP here basically states this outright. No worshipers? The man inspired allies and followers throughout the show with sheer charisma. And in the end he literally and happily sacrifices himself to save and proselytize Kogami -- the essence of a Jesus figure. I was correct to assume you didn't even understand what you watched. I won't explain further, I'd say watch it again but clearly you're incapable of even the most surface appreciation of the media you consume.

>anime
Even genreshit is better than this childish garbage.

Makishima was the true hero of Psycho-Pass

100% percent superior because it gives you a break from being showered in technology and allows you to focus and relax your mind and delve into what you are reading.

Also some books layouts get completely fucked on e-Readers.

There's only one legirimate reason to choose physical over digital, and that is 'CAUSE I FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL.

>>9843966
But ebooks are comfy

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Is it kino?

>>9843966
He prompted me to read Conrad's Heart of Darkness and other books.

>>9850059
>Read books because animu told you too

>>9850127
this is fine though

>>9843966
I refuse to believe this is real

this is written and dubbed by some /lit/ troll

>>9846035
Kill yourself, seriously. That show is dogshit on so many levels and you probably enjoyed it because of literary references and you probably enjoy Stephen King as well.

>>9843966
I didn't even watch the video but seriously when most books are $15+ for a physical book or $3-$10 for digital you have to be an idiot to buy the physical book.

>muh bookshelf
>muh book in my hand

Stop being such an autist. None of that matters at all.

>>9850203
Why even but anything digital when you can pirate it senpai?

>>9850203
If it didn't matter at all why are you telling you chipping in on it?

>>9850216
Because I read niche books that get small releases and no one ever uploads them. Not all of us read Infinite Meme.

>>9850233
Because i'm bound to get responses to that effect.

>>9850203
>buys digital
get a load of this tard

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>Kougami is seen reading Heart of Darkness at one point
>he probably secretly thinks he's Makishima's Marlow
cute

>>9850387
See
>>9850245

>>9850203
Watch the vid brainlet

>>9850203
Hahahahahah. You're funny pleb.

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>>9843966
>that video
Motherfucker doesn't even explain why physical books are superior. He just says he likes them better basically.

>>9850436
>>9850457
Luckily I don't have to watch it lol since this guy just summed it all up as bs>>9850559

>>9850127
I always do in order to better understand the animu.

ebooks are good for when i want to discreeting read while at work

>>9850559
>Brainlet needs to be spoon fed.
It's already an objective fact.

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>>9850394
>tfw ywn play Call of Cthulhu with Gen Urobuchi, Nick Land, Hidetaka Miyazaki and Guillermo del Toro

This thread is shit
I just got my holidays and feel like watching some series, but all my friends recommend me Twin Peaks and I don't like David Lynch
What are some good animus or mangos that will at least make me think?

>>9850779
Gochiusa

>>9850779
Kami no Iutoori

>>9850779
unironically Evangelion

>>9850866
I saw it, it wasn't bad, but kinda shallow desu
It's good if you follow the mecha genre deconstruction thing though

>>9850886
>It's good if you follow the mecha genre deconstruction thing though
Fuck off cuck, it's not a deconstruction, it's just a well made Lacanian show.

>>9850779
Inferno Cop + Space Patrol Luluco + Ninja Slayer
Hellsing Ultimate
Samurai Flamenco
Thunderbolt Fantasy
Kaiji
Giant Robo the Animation
Gurren Lagann
Serial Experiments Lain
Mononoke
Psycho Pass

You oughta find something you can like in there.

Screens on phones, televisions, and monitors are pretty bad for your brain. You are giving yourself ADHD by using these products. Toss your electronics into the recycling bin and live in the woods.

>>9851646
let's be realistic.

>>9849988
>ebooks
>comfy
no

>>9850600
You don't need to read books either, they're summed up on wikipedia

>>9851746
But then I would have to read the Wikipedia summary. I just find anons to green text it for me.

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>read a book I was curious about on my Kindle
>love it
>decide I would love to own it physically
>realize I'm not going to read it again in the immediate future and it would only be decoration

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>>9850194
I find it profoundly uninteresting how now that a Psycho Pass has concluded and achieved veritable fame and recognition, is regarded as a good show, that is to say popular -- you can count on the more noble denizens of our Mongolian basket-weaving consortium to explain how acclaim and consensus are meaningless, that good is in fact shit. This in spite of the fact it was incredibly well received here during its airing, oddly enough right up until it found its way onto Netflix. Anyway, thanks for volunteering that. I know I'm impressed.

>>9852396
shoot me winona

>>9852396
Plot is full of holes, ideas and themes not properly explored, shallow character who all talk like the worst psueds of /lit/.
Basic writing of plot structure, exposition, setting and exploring the world is all horrendously presented that anyone with just a bit of knowledge about critical theory would see, see for all its flaws and poor structure and misuse of the language of the local text. It's a good show if you're a brainlet who wants hear both equally dumb as well as shallow characters talk about philosophy for 30 second in between segments preceded by retarded exposition and followed up by bunch of rule of cool shit and with just sprinkle enough of literary references and intertextuality that don't really work in context because author pulled them from the book of 10,000 quotes that make me look smart. That's right, all the intertext there serves as a cyclical game of self congratulatory masturbation of self appointed intellectuals where the author and audiences are both the player and the judge. They want to each other feel good and that's it.
When I watched Akira, I learned about the zeitgeist of the Japan in 80s, the inner conflicts of one called Katsuhiro Otomo as he looked at the past and saw the history of the devastation, the present and saw the disconnect in the generations and proposed that the collectivism of the like minded individual is the foundation of the Japan's future and that that future would exist in a space that is not contemporary Japan, a true work of kyoko no jidai or the age of fiction.
When I look at the work of Mamoru Oshii I see the struggle of identity, of faith, of being whether it is in Cyberpunk setting of Ghost in The Shell or a parallel world of Jin-roh.
When I look at work of Hideaki Anno I see the pleas of a man that has trouble finding his symbolic state, the work representative of fukanosei no jidai or the age of impossibility.
When I see the works of Ryuutarou Nakamura and Hiroshi Hamasaki they show the logical extremes of posthumanism and a post human society.
You know what I learn from this travesty by Gen Urobuchi? Nothing of significance. I didn't come out of the show learning anything of value because it has nothing important to say, all I saw was an underlying cynicism of a decrepit industry and the people who operate there. You can neither experience the grander than life exploration of a dystopian society nor can you have the interpersonal and introspective drama of the inhabitants of that society because what they aimed to do was create an IP that could possibly go on forever while remaining in a status quo that is a fuck you to both the audience that want to watch the schlock and the intellectuals that want an everlasting experience. This is what this author is about, not the artistic expression that tell me about the Japan or the culture of anime or the author himself, just that if you are making the show successful you are contributing to keep the status quo.

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>>9852607
>You know what I learn from this travesty by Gen Urobuchi?
>what they aimed to do was create an IP that could possibly go on forever while remaining in a status quo that is a fuck you to both the audience
You do realize Uro wasn't involved with the sequel, right?

Really you didn't substantiate a single criticism, just said it sucks over and over without once offering why in your poorly formatted tirade.

>>9852607
>Plot is full of holes
Example?
>ideas and themes not properly explored
Such as?
>shallow character
What makes who shallow?

If you want to elaborate on a single one of your 'critiques' I'll happily repudiate them.

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>>9852607
Your opinions are great Anon!

Would you mind giving me some citations though? 'cause I can't recall where it was that I saw them before.

I am thinking about buying a kindle paperwhite at best buy for $120. And then learning how to pirate the books.
I never really read and I am thinking I should take it up as a hobby instead of browsing 4chan and youtube vids in my free time.

What 5 books should I even start with first? Is buying this ereader a bad idea?

>>9853037
>You do realize Uro wasn't involved with the sequel, right?
Butcher is a soulless piece of shit and his name has become a brand and used as a marketing tool, you literally can not deny this.
I mean this is the same guy that wrote a pilot for a series or few episodes and handed off to people because studios asked for that to happen and his name was used as a marketing tool. Making Rebellion should've clarified this for everyone as well.

>>9853049
>>Plot is full of holes
>Example?
>>ideas and themes not properly explored
>Such as?
Why isn't Sybil system more elaborate? People are more than happy to give up their freedom of the authoritarian state is the utopia, there should be no blind spots, no social construct unchecked. Everywhere there should be a Psycho Pass meter. In an earlier episode, the one with factory member being bullied, there isn't a good enough explanation for why Psycho Pass radar isn't installed there. Everywhere there are blindspots so the plot could happen. Also why isn't police alerted when people do not get their psycho reading checked regularly? If someone is avoiding the system itself, they must be up to shenanigans. It's either the system is thoroughly flawed or just doesn't give a fuck. If that's the case why doesn't anyone actually questions the authority of the system, the pros and the cons.
Sybil system itself is presented as a propaganda then an actual system. How is it a propaganda? Well because all you are told is life is the best under Sybil and rest of the world is in chaos. How did the fall of democracy happen if that's true? Why didn't other substitute take place of democracy? If they did, what is their story? If you're just going to say that only Sybil is the system that works anymore and not explain or show why, it's a propaganda in coherence with the in universe text as well as on metatexual level. Author wants to do either two things, first show that the system itself is bullshit and then the narrative should be of uprooting the system or it's a propaganda on metatexual level as well and author wants you to debate about the system on moral and philosophical level but since it's a propaganda on metatexual level, it's automatically lazy writing and author doesn't even have the subtleties to form a narrative that shows both pros and cons and then it's just garbage writing altogether.
The idea that we are willing to give up our agency for the promise of a utopia is an overexposed and overexplored one. But that's not even the idea of the narrative itself. Rather it's a shitty crime procedural where characters are dumb for the sake of plot but quote Plato and Nietzsche or other literary persons to seem smart but they are not smart enough to question the world they live in. It's like narrative wants you to explore these ideas yourself. It's like reading 1984 and and Winston Smith never questioned his reality ever and audience knew the logically extremizations of authoritative communist society make for an insufferable and uninhabitable society.
Cont. down below

>>9853295
>>shallow character
>What makes who shallow?
First of all they are just the archetypes of a boilerplate crime procedural. You have the morally uptight dude who never questions the legalities, then a guy who'll step out of boundaries to get shit done, the newbie who has not seen anything, the wise old guy everyone goes to for direction, the wild card guy, the ambiguous boss and the tech guy. Now using archetypes isn't the problem, if they remain archetypes throughout the narrative, that's just inoffensive mediocrity. What happens here is worse, they're misused to the extreme. The wild card character and the old guy are killed for shock factor in the most obvious and generic way possible, not only that but if you removed them from the story completely, there would be no change in the trajectory. They are that insignificant. That goes for all the side character btw, none are properly used, they have no arc and they have no impact on the story. The newbie however is used and in the worst way possible. She's there to listen to shitty plot and in universe mechanic exposition whenever it is needed. She's there to listen to arm chair philosophy whenever Urobutcher Googles up some quotes and their meanings and she's also there to become a henchman of the villain and helps move the plot forward and keep the status quo intact. Kogami I like even though a lot about him is underwritten.
Now the worst offender is Makishima. He's like the most blatant copy of V (V from Vendetta) I've ever seen. That's not essentially a bad thing but whole of his arc is copied from the graphic novel but Urobutcher, being the hack doesn't have the intellect to make it work. V in the novel suffered at the hand of authoritarian regime, his motivations for liberating people are genuine and he has a humanity about him. The theatrics about him make sense because the world needs something radically theatrical. His eccentric characterization adds to everything, the plot or fleshing out of his character. He is definitely a mouthpiece of Moore because Moore loves classic literature and himself is an anarchist but it never comes off as unnatural or immersion breaking. You are aware that you are listening to Moore when he talks but there's so much going on with V that you forget. Makishima on the other hand is just some guy who is bored psychopath who read too much literature and became an edgelord. No humanity about him whatsoever, no characterization besides "lol listen to this quote" and gets masses killed without a shred of empathy. He's that way because Urobutcher is an edgelord and a hack without least bit of talent. Because Urobutcher never actually did anything worthwhile. The anarchism in V for Vendetta works because Moore believes but also practices the ideology. It doesn't work in Psycho Pass because it's a borrowed philosophy for Urobutcher and the narrative, just like everything else is borrowed in this narrative and nothing original whatsoever.

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>>9853219
Back to /a/ retard, people who browse this board are capable of forming a coherent thought, as alien as that idea might sound to you. How does it go? Lurk for 2 years and read all the books in pic related before posting.

>>9853229
is anyone here to respond to me, hello, please.

>>9850203
you cannot buy a book digitally, it´s impossible by definition of what a book is

>>9852358
well hello fellow kraut-chaner

>>9853328
the post right above yours has a pic with recommendations, also use b-ok and libgen for pirating books

>>9853328
But the e reader, no problem with that. Make sure it can support apps from outside source as well. For example if you wanted to diversify and wanted to read graphic novels or manga, you should be able to do that.
As for 5 books, well I don't know your preference, what do you like?

>>9851163
>Mononoke
My absolute favorite. The first time i see one that also likes it.

Absolutely right
e-book fags are almost as bad as phoneposters

>>9850203
>hmm i might start going digital
>98% of all the 1 star Amazon reviews for any book are fucking kindle buyers complaining about the shit e-book quality
no thanks
also most paperbacks are definitely not $15+ and even if they were, you're doing something wrong if you can't afford to buy, what, 3 books a month at that price. that should be 3 hours of your entire months pay if you work at McDonalds.

god damn plebs

thinks I like about having an e-reader
>lots of free books
>easy to take with you everywhere
>backlight, comfy reading in bed and without disturbing other people
>read multiple books at the same time
things I don't like
>difficult to find many books in Dutch, so now I read almost exclusively English
>lots of books are scanned and OCR'ed and are full of typical OCR errors
>typography and layout is almost never as good as with paper books

>>9853364
also use mobilism.me, they have loads of books if you use the search function

Can't find a stupid questions thread, i've been looking for a year for a book and i can't find it anywhere.
I've tried http://b-ok.org/, #bookz, torrent sites, tor browser.

The book i'm looking for is called Our Dumb Century by The Onion, author Scott Dikkers

I'm not from america and the book is not in libraries in my country.

I know for sure some anon must have this book after searching the archive. https://warosu.org/lit/thread/S8971456#p8975557

If any anon present here has it, can you please scan it, upload it?

>There actually exists someone who wrote this stiff dialogue and thought namedropping Orwell and Gibson and Philip K. Dick was a good idea

>I suppose you could say I'm a man of the people.
>This city is like a parody of the sort of novels I used to read when I was younger.
>What kind? Like a William Gibson book?\
>More like Philip K. Dick
>Not as controlling as the societies George Orwell depicted in his work...

>The original with subtitles is just as bad, pretty much the same
>There is no one in this thread calling this out and, perhaps the worst: there are a shitload of people who watch anime.

Kill me bros.

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>>9853462
>>There is no one in this thread calling this out and, perhaps the worst: there are a shitload of people who watch anime.
Because the thread is not about whether or not the books mentioned in the anime are good books.

>>9853462
It's their version of showing that characters having entry level literary knowledge = they are smart.
>perhaps the worst: there are a shitload of people who watch anime.
Nothing wrong with that if you watch it ironically.

>>9853459
I have created a book request on mobilism.me for
Our Dumb Century

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>>9853470
>Philip K. Dick, huh? Never read him.

>>9843966
no ebooks are just fine. If i liked the book i buy it, if not i just delete it. I read on my phone and i have bright blue background while reading which prevents me from getting tired.

>>9853495
>being an ironic weeb

>>9853462
maybe its a lot less cringey to japanese people. imagine all the fedora tipping references westerners make to japanese culture.

>>9843966
Physical books are a meme

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>>9853308
>Read 6
>Schoolread 2
>Moive only 2
Eat it sucker.

>>9853396
I wish more anime did the 2-3 episode arc structure, it allowed them to flesh things up properly.

>>9853290
Rebellion was the only good thing about Meguka what are you talking about.

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>>9854191
>Read 6
Impressive

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>>9854361
Arigato sempai.

They're both valuable with pros and cons. I'm a poorfag and can't afford all the books for my thesis research so I have to pirate the books but I love the feel of physical books.

>>9843966
Is the voice actor he trying to do a Patrick Bateman impression? Why is he talking like that?

>>9855427
The character is autistic.

>>9855444
So then Patrick Bateman?

>>9855454
Yes and no. Bateman said everything ironically or there were always ironic implications to be drawn upon his statement, this guy is not self aware.

Why is that every time I create this thread it's never that popular but now you create it and it's super successful.

>>9855475
Oh nevermind, I see it's because a fan of Psycho-Pass showed up. I've never had one of those.

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>>9853297
>Makishima on the other hand is just some guy who is bored psychopath who read too much literature and became an edgelord. No humanity about him whatsoever, no characterization besides "lol listen to this quote" and gets masses killed without a shred of empathy.
Makishima's whole thing is that he's lonely, ostracized because this essential part of society, Sibyl, doesn't work on him. It inundates their world and is involved in every single facet of one's life, Sibyl outright decides people's future and assigns them who they are. What you mistake for simple sociopathy is aloofness resultant from the aforementioned.

Arguably Makishima is the most human character in the whole series. If there's a term for his philosophy it's literally humanism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

He freely kills people because they aren't, they live in a sterilize world with sterile thoughts and feelings, Sibyl's society is bloodless. It's beyond comical to hear you suggest he has no humanity in him, he's a romantic through and through (in the style of Nietzsche) -- and of course your definition of humanity precludes violence right? Your modern-cuck is showing. Because people are good and upright? That's Sibyl talking, or what passes for it in our society. Human expression takes more forms than that,but you literally cannot conceive of the word meaning anything but this limited definition that only came about recently. And yet you're ready to speak on anarchism? Sterile. He's an inverse Jesus figure because in such a it's not love that is revolutionary but the capacity to transgress. Which is what he inspires in Kogami and Akami, whose characterizations you also have wrong, defining them through their jobs rather than their motivations. You're genuinely representative of everything Makishima and 'Urobutcher' were rebelling against.

This really feels like a waste of my time so I'll be brief
>>9853297
>You have the morally uptight dude who never questions the legalities
you later learn this is out of fear and he does come to question them in the end (becomes an enforcer)
>>9853297
>the newbie who has not seen anything
who represents for lack of a better word optimism, she reviles Sibyl but works with with it out of pragmatism and compassion, she sees a solution no-one else does
>>9853297
>the wise old guy everyone goes to for direction
he's a walking talking object against on Sibyl, a relic from the society that transitioned into it, people consult him because he is wise and Sibyl imperfect
>>9853297
>the wild card guy
who defends a society and system that represses him because he understands the utility in it
>>9853297
>tech guy
literally gets no screen time and is just there for boobs, I think you actually forgot the other lesbian too

point was none of these characters are remotely as linear as you portray and inform the viewer on the lives of people under Sibyl from many different angles

>>9853295
>In an earlier episode, the one with factory member being bullied, there isn't a good enough explanation for why Psycho Pass radar isn't installed there
I dimly recall, but wasn't that factory producing government robots and thus was isolated from the outside world? That's reasonable, and has real life parallels. Sensitive government computers aren't connected to the internet.

>>9853295
>If someone is avoiding the system itself, they must be up to shenanigans. It's either the system is thoroughly flawed or just doesn't give a fuck. If that's the case why doesn't anyone actually questions the authority of the system, the pros and the cons.
Let me stop you right here. First of all people accept Sibyl because Japan is literally the only functioning country i the world because of it, that is explained. It makes a tremendous difference.

Second, your criticism basically amounts to, why isn't Sibyl a god? It has flaws, that's the only reason there's a story. It's like...wondering why the fuck Orwell wrote 1984 when Wilson could exist, clearly the Party isn't perfect. What a copout and waste of time, right?

Profoundly stupid.

>>9855646
You are a literal retard that's ready to talk philosophy but never actually read a single book in his life. So he's a romantic that evokes Nietzsche's values? Is this supposed to be comical? Makishima was a utilitarian cuck, boderlining on machiavellianism. Nietzsche didn't value utilitarianism.
>and of course your definition of humanity precludes violence right?
No, neither do I think that without violence can there be an ideal state of humanity and human society. I literally gave you the example of V and the right state of anarchism. But you have neither read the novel nor are you capable of googling so that example is worthless for you. The arc of Makishima is borrowed from the arc of V and one works whilst other fails, because the failed one is written by the pretentious hack who so eagerly references Plato's theory of forms but doesn't actually know how it actualizes. Makishima will always be the shitty V expy.
>>9855687
>I dimly recall, but wasn't that factory producing government robots and thus was isolated from the outside world? That's reasonable, and has real life parallels. Sensitive government computers aren't connected to the internet.
Why are there black spots everywhere else then? At school or in streets? I'll tell you, because plot needs to happen, whether it betrays any consistency doesn't matter.
>Let me stop you right here. First of all people accept Sibyl because Japan is literally the only functioning country i the world because of it, that is explained. It makes a tremendous difference.
It's not explained, it's told. You are told that world is shit and Japan isn't, how and why were never explained. Because the world building was never intricate enough and it relies on cheap writing. It would not be a problem if the plot was that the authoritarian regime is not a status quo worth keeping since that's the basically the premise of most of fiction about a dystopian society which concerns itself more on political, social and philosophical level. But the premise is that Sybil is a system and it is up to you to decide whether or not it is a good system. But you can't make an argument against it because the best defense of the system is "lol but everything else failed and only this works." That's a propaganda in form of storytelling.
>Second, your criticism basically amounts to, why isn't Sibyl a god?
Not at all you retard.
>It's like...wondering why the fuck Orwell wrote 1984 when Wilson could exist, clearly the Party isn't perfect. What a copout and waste of time, right?
What?
Also Orwell wrote 1984 to be a cautionary piece about the socialism and people's spreading blind trust in communism. It was a social critique, not a fiction to propel the philosophical debate about the merits and demerits about a totalitarian system. Did you even fucking read it?

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>>9855795
>Makishima was a utilitarian cuck
Name 1 single way this is true. You're just talking out of your ass now, he's a utilitarian because...he wants to destroy a system of rule that is the apex of utilitarianism since he values individuality above all else? Jesus fuck, you're so wrong it's staggering.

>>9855795
>You are told that world is shit and Japan isn't, how and why were never explained.
So what? You're complaining the story is bad because you want more of it? The why isn't remotely essential to the plot and can readily be explained with any number of guesses which right or wrong again is relevant.

>>9855795
>Why are there black spots everywhere else then? At school or in streets? I'll tell you, because plot needs to happen
See below.

>>9855795
>What?
No. That's not an answer. Your complaint is literally the antagonistic element in a story isn't perfect, that's the only reason the story exists. It's fucking stupid. Why the fuck are you talking about what 1984 is about? That has nothing to do with it, the why. The point was Wilson exists in his totalitarian society, meaning it isn't so total, it has flaws, like the society in PP. What a fucking cop out, right? The party isn't perfect with every single human being totally under its rule, what a bullshit pretext for a plot. Etc etc.

You're retarded. Why does a system to control people even need to come about? Why do we have crime now? Human nature. No system is perfect, to demand some explanation be given for that is so desperate and lazy for criticism. It's a thing manifest. Why is it that the party produces outliers? For the very same reason the party exists at all, to suppress outliers, it's a thing manifest. The same thing with Sibyl, it's immediately portrayed as a flawed system from episode 1 minute 1, it literally takes place in a run down ghetto for the homeless where Sibyl's rule is weakest. All of PP is a focused narrative, a sort of argumentum ad absurdum, it takes place in an extreme setting in order to hone in on the ethical questions it wants to ask. That doesn't mean it portrays any one side as explicitly correct and the other evil, not at all, it's massively ambiguous and lets the viewer choose while taking them out of their comfort zone.

>>9855795
>But you can't make an argument against it because the best defense of the system is "lol but everything else failed and only this works." That's a propaganda in form of storytelling.
Except Sibyl is portrayed as flawed and dehumanizing left and right. That's propaganda? No-one idea is expressed to be inherently or clearly superior to any other. That's what makes Makishima such a great villain, lots of people are rooting for him, a man who murders with a smile, because unbelievably enough he's a sort of hero in a world so twisted, it genuinely brings into question ideas of right and wrong and justice. Yeah, propaganda, all the best propaganda in the world was opaque as fuck leaving the individual to decide, right?

What worries me about ebooks is that you're always downloading the latest version of the book. This is a good thing for the vast majority of books, but when groups are constantly trying to censor ideas relying solely on ebooks seems dangerous.

>>9855842
But it's much easier to check one ebook against another version, it can easily be automated.

>>9855848

I didn't realize that was possible, so I guess that I don't know what I'm talking about. In my head I'm imagining some universal library in multiple languages, controlled by one government or organization like Google. Instead of just censoring books, they also make them unavailable to download, and printed copies are hard to come by.

>>9853616
This. The SF community is much more tight-knit in Japan. And Japs name-dropping Western titles to look smart is a tradition that goes all the way back to Souseki and probably those before him too.

>>9855842
>What worries me about ebooks is that you're always downloading the latest version of the book.
Nobody updates ebooks, what the hell are you talking about? Publishers shit out one version and then never look at it again, same as with regular books. The only people who care about fixing errors in their text are self publishing autists who sell their books for 1 dollar on amazon.

If the government censors ebooks on amazon all is lost anyway and they'll kick down your door to take your precious dead trees. Easier to hide an USB drive that holds fifty thousand digital books than even one paper one.

>>9853295
>>9853297
You're right about the Sibyl half of the narrative, it was underutilised and somewhat lazy. However, it served as the backdrop and mechanism for the real meat of the anime, the interplay between Kougami and Makishima. I think you sell Makishima short, he isn't doing it purely for political or ideal values, but he isn't merely a psychopath either. Makishima was entirely lucid and aware of the savage natural reality of the world and his place in it, just like Kurtz in the referenced Heart of Darkness (or even Gulliver). Kougami is similarly a Marlow type, playing along with the worldly systems but increasingly aware of natural realities. The problem is, the conflict between them was not as intricate as it could have been and is obfusticated by the other annoyances you've pointed out. Sibyl should have remained a mechanism and the side characters should have either been developed properly or given less of the spotlight. The anime had a very real potential to become something better.
The reason season 2 was so bad was that Kougami and Makishima were gone with poor replacements like Kamui to fill the stage, eliminating what merit the anime had.

>>9855795
>Makishima was a utilitarian
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>9856149
he was trying to promote the greatest happiness for the greatest amount of people by murdering people in front of their friends and inciting riots while vying to destabilize society

>>9843966
It's been scientifically proven retention is higher when reading paper books rather than ebooks.

>>9855427
Wow I thought the same thing.
It's the kind of voice I want to choke the life out of.

>>9855836
>Name 1 single way this is true.
He thoroughly believes that ends justify the means, he even mentioned Bentham in the series too. And he practiced that belief when he decided to kill people in various circumstances. The utilitarian belief always exists in some level when it comes to a revolution that Makishima proposed. Go read a good literature about the realistic revolution and revolutionaries.
>inb4 they weren't people
Yes they were, they were just oppressed people whose critical thinking was destroyed by an elaborate sham but given chance they could see the error in their way of living. If they weren't people then Makishima's errand is that of a fool. He could literally kill every living person of the society in his crusade since they aren't people. Who gives a fuck, right?
>You're complaining the story is bad because you want more of it?
No what I want from it is what's actually relevant.
>The why isn't remotely essential to the plot
It is if the narrative wants the discourse of the philosophical implications. How would you make an argument for and against the system from a universe whose mechanics and intricacies you don't fully know. Read a Tolstoy or a Dostoevsky novel. They're philosophical and political fiction that talk about the society but they don't just present ideas and let the readers do the work, rather they take an idea and bring multiple perspectives to it and are quite elaborate in their exploration. Pretty entry level stuff.
>and can readily be explained with any number of guesses which right or wrong again is relevant.
Doing lazy author's job for him and making up headcanon is the sign that narrative and author failed to thoroughly explored the ideas conveyed.
>Your complaint is literally the antagonistic element in a story isn't perfect
No my complaint is that there isn't self awareness about it. Nobody throughout the show looked at Sybil and said so and so's good, so and so's bad, the overall conclusion is we are for/against this system. For a show that's trying to be political and philosophical and name-dropping philosophers every few minutes there's a distinct lack of the discourse about the ethics of this "flawed" system in show itself. In the place of a "what an interesting could've been story", show instead is concerned with boilerplate crime procedural and wants the audience to do its work for them.
Cont

>>9855836
>>9856350
>The point was Wilson exists in his totalitarian society, meaning it isn't so total, it has flaws, like the society in PP.
I actually want you to talk about 1984 now, I find it hard to believe that you actually read the book or understood what it was about.
>You're retarded. Why does a system to control people even need to come about? Why do we have crime now? Human nature. No system is perfect, to demand some explanation be given for that is so desperate and lazy for criticism. It's a thing manifest. Why is it that the party produces outliers? For the very same reason the party exists at all, to suppress outliers, it's a thing manifest.
I'm going to assume you are talking about 1984 there. You do know the context behind why party did what it did right? Because they wanted to preserve the status quo. The people were illiterate, underfed, poor intentionally. The war existed intentionally. The collectivism of the socialist outer party and inner party existed intentionally. To preserve the status quo, maintain the hierarchy of the society. The party had no misgivings about their motivations, they wanted power because of their own desires and because they could not because of the good of the people. The party was selfish.
In contrast, Sybil system did want to do it for the people, even if it was corrupt. Also there is elaborate social hierarchy in Sybil society. There are no civil bodies, no aristocracy, people were considered equal. And people accepted Sybil because the world had gone to shit and Japan was the exception. They accept Sybil first and foremost because there is no good alternative but they also believe it's a great system, unlike the people who lived in Oceania. So the justification for the shitty writing by saying "outliners need to exist" is bullshit and again are trying to justify the narrative element of a work for it, the justification itself is not supported by text. This is the great, elaborate and realistic world that Gen Urobuchi built.
>Except Sibyl is portrayed as flawed and dehumanizing left and right.
Yeah it is.
>That's propaganda?
Yeah it is because the system itself is elaborate lie and people believe in that lie. That is propaganda.
>No-one idea is expressed to be inherently or clearly superior to any other.
Except that authoritarian autonomy of Sybil is the perfect and superior political and social body.
>That's what makes Makishima such a great villain, lots of people are rooting for him, a man who murders with a smile, because unbelievably enough he's a sort of hero in a world so twisted, it genuinely brings into question ideas of right and wrong and justice.
But I do agree with his motives. He's an external body who wants to bring a change in a propaganda fueled society. He's still an edgelord without any self awareness, without much character depth, without any decency and relatability.
Cont

>>9855836
>>9856356
Seriously go fucking read V For Vendetta you autist and even though you won't admit, you'd realize within yourself how an anarchist fiction is done right and you don't need a characterization less edgelord to do it.

>>9856360
it's not about politics you sperg, psycho pass probably has more literary merit than fucking V for vendetta

>>9856356
>he's continuing to erroneously characterize left and right
>he's bringing up 1984's why AGAIN
I'm not responding to you until you learn to read. I don't know who you think you're responding to, but it's certainly not the posts you're quoting.

>>9856350
>He thoroughly believes that ends justify the means, he even mentioned Bentham in the series too.
Makishima speaks of Bentham negatively. Panopticon, Sibyl, the two are very alike. The ends justify the means couldn't be more mistaken of a way to describe the man, to him the means are the end. That's the fundamental and beautiful thing about his character.
>>9856356
>He's an external body who wants to bring a change in a propaganda fueled society.
Incorrect. Makishima is an individual through and through, if he was primarily concerned with destroying Sibyl he would have done things very differently, he wouldn't have spared Kogami, who he knew could stop him. He wouldn't have spared Akane. He wouldn't have rushed ahead alone to attack the factory in the end. You totally misunderstand his motives, the same way everyone misunderstands Nietszsche. He is isn't motivated by destroying Sibyl, he is motivated by the fact Sibyl is evil, the two are not the same thing. What he wants is to exercise his will, that is to live and do as Sibyl is wrong, to be a living refutation of the system, a proof. He happily dies at the hands of Kogami, he doesn't consider himself a failure, he 'loves the game and wants to play it for as long as he can', which is precisely what he did, and now he passes the torch onto Kogami.

>>9850203
stingy poverty fags don't deserve to read

>>9856378
Nigga nobody gives a shit about Butcher in academics outside of Madoka, V by default has much more literary merit. And the cultural influence of the text is transcendental.

>>9856420
>to him the means are the end.
The means itself are utilitarian you retard for the fact that they lead to an end and retrospectively come in line with the philosophy. Just because Makishima isn't aware of it doesn't mean he isn't.
>He is isn't motivated by destroying Sibyl, he is motivated by the fact Sibyl is evil
He wants to see the destruction of Sybil becsuse it is evil but doesn't want to do it himself and rather provide the means to do it. Same shit.

>>9850203

>buy book digital
>whatever service you bought it from now considers the book "problematic" or loses the license
>disappears from your library or is censored without your consent
>BUT WHY WOULD YOU BUY PHYSICAL

HMMMMMMM

>>9843966
>dubbed
is this a joke? also Makishima is a patrician

>>9846975
>Jesus figure
in what way? Was he even willing to die for his ideals?

>>9850203
>buying physical OR digital
Support your local library, pleb

>>9857659
>Was he even willing to die for his ideals?
Literally what he does.

>>9856466
Man, morons like you piss me off. You keep replying as though you're answering, but what you say has nothing to do with what you're responding to. It's just irrelevant noise.

>>9857737
>can't defend the point
>y-you point doesn't matter
Also try reading some literature instead of taking shallow texts on face value cuck.

>>9852607
GITS: Innocence got accused of being like that too but I somehow could enjoy it. Maybe because of Oshii's direction.

>>9858136
His direction is impeccable and the literary allusions are actually well placed. Most of the themes derive from Descartes' work. He's definitely a guy who knows what he's talking about, honestly.

>>9846035
>It references famous writers and philosophers so it's good!
If you want to watch a good sci-fi anime series go watch Texhnolyze

>>9858174
If you say so then maybe it's true. It's been a long time ago since I watched his movies. There are only two (English language) books about his works, and while they provide some nice details certainly the general scope of both books severely limits the depth of the subject they're talking about. Some people on /m/ really hated him for Patlabor 2, and for being 'pretentious' on /a/. /m/ said that Patlabor 2 was a shallow political thriller lacking any details, not even sci-fi mecha, and so on.

>>9858235
I believe the storyline in Texhnolyze is more like a tragedy masking itself as a science fiction (or in a fictional setting). Lux and the allusion with purgatory (or something like that, I forgot) wasn't really scientific or realistic, or even explored thoroughly in typical sci-fi fashion. It's more like a bunch of people trying its hardest to live but ultimately they failed.

>>9858174
Thing is, Innocence and in a larger scope SAC were the reason Psycho Pass ended up with the hamfisted quote to round up situations thing.

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>/lit/ bros have the most patrician taste in anime
Not surprised

>>9846975
>I wonder if you faggots even realize that Makishima won in the end?
Makishima won in the way that he made Akane question the Sibyl system and he was able to die at the hands of someone who understood him, but he also lost in the sense that he was replaced like another cog in the machine, which is what he feared.

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>>9846035
I perfectly agree with you.

>>9847109
>he literally and happily sacrifices himself to save and proselytize Kogami
I don't follow? Are you referring to how he made Kogami deny the system, or is there something deeper

>>9852358
I know you probably won't see this now Anon, but you shouldn't worry about it to this extent. Ornamentation is not evil.

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yeah having a physical copy is cool and all but having a kindle saves so much money.

t. poorfag

>>9858706
....I am here (none of us can leave)

>>9858730
You can buy used books though?

>>9858261
I assume you are talking about Cinema of Mamoru Oshii and Stray Dog of Anime. Besides that there are quite a few essays about his work in other books, I remember there was a chapter in Robot Ghost and Wired Dreams about Patlabor.
I think /a/'s problem with Innocence is that it comes of as too obtuse intentionally and while the film itself is obtuse and too full of intertext, it all does serve a purpose other than Oshii stroking his beard. If you are willing to search up on the references, you'd see they're well placed. Some of it is just fancy allusion and homage but a lot of it does serve the narrative.
>>9858542
Ergo Proxy as well. Thing is I don't fault Oshii or Kamiyama for things that writers who came after did. Not that Urobuchi really needs inspiration to be as pretentious as possible. The scene of Rider, Saber and Archer in Fate/Zero was textbook arm chair philosophy and ascertained my belief that Urobuchi is a self important author who is in desperate need of self awareness.

>>9858743
I do that once in a while but most I want to read are readily available on libgen. I don't even have to leave my chair.

>>9843966
I feel the same way as that guy except about the superiority of subs over dubs.

>>9858733
Don't be a meme, dream!

>>9858755
Wait, I thought you buy digital copies, not pirating them. Nevermind.

>>9850559
He basically explain how books require more focus and have more stimulation that goes beyond words.

>>9853295
>the one with factory member being bullied, there isn't a good enough explanation for why Psycho Pass radar isn't installed there
The corporation wanted to continue it's harmful work load, and the Sibyl system let it happen because of it's utilitarian nature. The government turned a blind eye
It was a commentary on the high work load the Japanese have to deal with while the government does nothing

>>9853295
>there should be no blind spots, no social construct unchecked.
>why isn't the system like perfect.
That's the whole point. No system can be perfectly flawless and there almost completely flawless nature of the system make those few flaws all the more damaging.
In a city that large there were almost no flaws you just saw almost all of them from the perspective of the police.

>>9853295
>Also why isn't police alerted when people do not get their psycho reading checked regularly?
A mandatory, regular scan reminds the people too much of the dangers, which is stressful and threatens to derail the whole system.
You seem to over estimate how often there was a legitimate problem.

>If that's the case why doesn't anyone actually questions the authority of the system, the pros and the cons.
Almost no problems. The average person is too scared to question.

>>9853295
>author doesn't even have the subtleties to form a narrative that shows both pros and cons
Are you serious, goy?

>>9853295
>Plato and Nietzsche or other literary persons to seem smart but they are not smart enough to question the world they live in.
Pretty much everyone who did quote literature people did question the system. Also it's stated that the average population doesn't have an interest in old literature or science when Makishima was talking to the inventor of Hyper Oats.

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>>9858861
>goy

>>9858868
>Pretty much everyone who did quote literature people did question the system.
No really. Someone like Ginoza or Masaoka quoted literature frequently but they never really seemed to question the system, just some passing remarks. Kougami too.
And that's not just those characters, but entire cast. Everybody is "smart" but they never act smart nor do they want to question the reality of the world. There was no ethical debate about the system, just remarks. And show does want to perpetuate that debate among its audience but never does it lay out all the required groundwork, nor is it concerned itself.

You'll never find a discussion like this on /a/

>>9858913
Kogami questioned the system a lot and his actions had a ton of reasoning.
Ginoza makes sense because he was terrified into submission about the system after his father and coworker got marked as criminals because they disregarded the sibyls warnings. Eveb then in the end he rejected the sibyls therapy so that he could act as a better detective.

I think it's worth noting that just because someone is well read doesn't mean they're unable to fall to propoganda and the highest authority.

>>9855795
Makishima wasmt utilitarian at all. He just accomplished his goals. Sibyl was utilitarian

>>9859387
>I think it's worth noting that just because someone is well read doesn't mean they're unable to fall to propoganda and the highest authority.
Good point. I'm just used to intellectual discourse in my philosophical fiction and this show just didn't want to have any, that's my biggest gripe.
>>9859398
Makishima isn't outright utilitarian but the act of starting a revolution, the kind Makishima wanted to propagate and to accept the consequences of the logical extremes is in itself a utilitarian act. You don't have to subscribe to the philosophy in particular way but the philosophy itself is very broadly intertwined.

>>9843966
Yes but not to most in terms of convenience which dominates most of modern peoples priorities.

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>>9850779
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (and the original film, if you haven't seen it)
Serial Experiments Lain

>>9858687
was this from /a/?

>>9853462
It's cringey in the context of the anime.

>>9855795
>Why are there black spots everywhere else then?
You do realize hue scanners are different than the psycho hazard scanners right?
It's been stated the Sibyl system doesn't have the processing power to scan everything at once.

Most of the scanner only measure stress levels. Also it is stated the dominators jump to the front of the queue when doing an in depth scan.

>>9856350
>It is if the narrative wants the discourse of the philosophical implications. How would you make an argument for and against the system from a universe whose mechanics and intricacies you don't fully know.
I mean you do. From what I could tell your anger with the world building is a lack of a backdrop not really the system as it exists now.

>>9856356
>Also there is elaborate social hierarchy in Sybil society. There are no civil bodies
Actually the world of Sibyl did have the wealthy and government officials.

>>9856356
>So the justification for the shitty writing by saying "outliners need to exist" is bullshit and again are trying to justify the narrative element of a work for it, the justification itself is not supported by text. This is the great, elaborate and realistic world that Gen Urobuchi built.
Not him, but I did give several explanations for much of the world earlier in the thread after you posted this.

>>9853462
>and, perhaps the worst: there are a shitload of people who watch anime.
>getting butthurt that people watch and enjoy anime
>on 4chan of all places
Maybe this isn't the site for you.

>>9859845
>Actually the world of Sibyl did have the wealthy and government officials.
This really reminded me of Brave New World, it's not a Utopia in the sense that class distinctions have been destroyed, but rather they have been embraced. The system works so well, understands people so effectively, they're happy to work whatever job, marry whatever partner it finds for them, etc...

>>9859778
Why do you ask?
Don't really know

>>9859429
>I'm just used to intellectual discourse in my philosophical fiction and this show just didn't want to have any, that's my biggest gripe.
Just for the sake of further discussion have you seen >>9858687 ?
I feel like it captures a lot of the philosophy of the show despite its improper spelling of many names.

>>9858682
tfw no Makishima x Akane romance

>>9853462
Heh, you almost forced me to think about what you said but I noticed you insulted Japanese cartoons on your reply while posting on 4chan.
Better luck next time, kiddo.

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>>9852607
As someone that doesn't 'read much literature', admittedly I was linked here from elsewhere...my point being is that this post made me realize that reading lots of books doesn't make you intelligent. It's that understanding them does. And I agree with you when it comes to Psycho-Pass. When I first watched it, 8 or so years ago I dropped it exactly for this reason. I recently rewatched it to completion (season 1 only) and safe to say my opinion hasn't changed. I can't understand the praise for it at all. Everything is so dull, everything so shallow.

Though on the point of Hideaki Anno and Evangelion. I see a shitty fanfic wish-fulfilment harem show people regard as 'deep' because it has symbolism thrown in to seem smart. The movies are a step-up however. It's great to see a writer improve with age.

Then again, since I don't read books. I can't possibly know how a good story is written.

>>9843966
Honestly impressed with the madeleine dipped in tea more than anything else.

>>9860558
>muh proost

>>9860545
>wish-fulfillment
Anon...

>>9860570
These are not the type of responses I expect to get on /lit/. Put some effort in your post next time.

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>tfw watching Psycho Pass inspired me to return to reading by wanting to know each and every article referenced
It helped me to find some really good Japanese works I'd otherwise never even heard of.

>>9860545
Do you think maybe the meaning of the symbolism and the quotes actually just flew over you head.
I mean just read the threads and image macros.

>>9860595
in PP or EVA? I never said I didn't 'understand' the symbolism now did I?

>>9860572
Your vomit didn't deserve anything more.

>>9860659
It's not about what I deserve. It's about what you come of as.

>>9860626
When you talk about the quotes and then say they were shallow it's safe to presume you didn't understand the quotes in PP were applicable to the situation.

>>9860672
With this logic. Shallow writing can't exist. I disagree with this logic. All you're doing is moving around words. The quotes better damn well be 'applicable to the situation'.

>>9860684
>The quotes better damn well be 'applicable to the situation'.
They were.
Also I'm not saying that as I general rule; I'm saying that as a rule that just applied to Psycho Pass.

>>9860696
>they were
They better damn well be

>>9860699
see:>>9858687
It talks about some of the quotes.

>>9860700
I didn't 'misunderstand the quotes'. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself I did. Capiche? If you've got nothing to say don't say anything.

>>9860706
I'm not sure if you think you just made an argument.
This whole discussion has been us just yelling at each other that you're wrong because I'm right.

>>9855646
>Makishima's whole thing is that he's lonely, ostracized because this essential part of society, Sibyl, doesn't work on him. It inundates their world and is involved in every single facet of one's life, Sibyl outright decides people's future and assigns them who they are. What you mistake for simple sociopathy is aloofness resultant from the aforementioned.
For all it's referencing 1984, PP struck me as much more of a Huxley Brave New World dystopia. That social incongruity Makishima felt really reminded me of the plight of 'intellectuals' or the savage in BNW, this fundamental disconnect that makes you unlike everyone else and unable to live within the equilibrium that immures and enriches the lives of everyone else. It's like being born without a piece of common biology, you're disfigured by not being one of the hive.

>>9860714
>you're doing it too
If that's your only argument just don't post. You've taken up 4 replies now to say one thing. You're just meta posting. Once you actually respond to the contents of my posts I'll check it out.

>>9860183
Yes I did, yes the summarization of the themes that anon did is more or less what show tried to achieve. Not, it wasn't enough. In the span of 2 hours and 20 minutes 2001 A Space Odyssey goes from the dawn of mankind to the dawn of new species. In the span of less than 300 pages a text like V For Vendetta goes from an authoritarian state where everyone is oppressed to a new beginning. Mamoru Oshii told a profound tale of actual change in mere 82 minutes and Katsuhiro Otomo and Rintaro did it in 113 minutes. All these texts do retain their philosophical idea, the inter personal drama, their intertextual quirks among a lot of things and tell a profound tale full of grandiose ideas and those ideas actualize, not missing their mark. What Psycho Pass achieves in the span of 22 episodes is make its one dimensional character two dimensional while alluding to grandiose ideas of society and societal changes but never actualizing on the potential that the premise provided. It could be because of one of these things. One that Gen Urobuchi genuinely believes that telling a tale which is a shitty crime procedural start to finish while alluding to grander ideas and name-dropping philosophers and literary authors which are all above him and just adjusting the status quo enough as people don't question what was the point but keep things more or less the same is a profound tale worth telling. Second, that he knows the value of his name when it comes to create an IP and he told a a story that alluded to change while keeping the status quo so that people can come back to it again and again like idiots. Third being mixture of the first two, which I believed is what happened here, because Gen Urobuchi is a self important author who knows the marketable value of his name.
I can nitpick how the fundamental writings of Gen Urobuchi are below standard from my perspective or how Psycho Pass is a below average crime procedural but those aren't even the things that bothered me as much.
>>9860672
>>9860696
The intertext was there to be a self congratulatory cyclical game, they didn't really serve any purpose other than Urobuchi displaying his "intellect" and saying that if you caught the references, you are intelligent too. This doesn't happen in PP, it happens everywhere. Just search on Plato's theory of forms then go to the episode that used that reference, you'd realize two things, one that the interpretation comes way off the mark and that if you did remove that dialogue, nothing would change.

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>tfw unable to even discern what my will is, let alone live by it
>tfw begin to doubt I have free will at all
>tfw no korean husbandofu
Psycho Pass was pure kino, best cyber-punk anime since GitS

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>>9858913
>There was no ethical debate about the system, just remarks. And show does want to perpetuate that debate among its audience but never does it lay out all the required groundwork, nor is it concerned itself.
questioning the foundation of your entire society tends to worsen one's hue it's no wonder people are hesitant to consider the matter when not thinking is so rewarded and arguably the reverse so penalized , this is a world with literal thought crime

>>9860985
In an extreme communist regime this was also an actual issue. The upper echelon of the governing body always looked out for the outsiders who never agreed with them. If there was a meeting going on and someone with disconcerting opinion came forward, he was killed for having the thought. Now the pretense was always that these opinion and advises on the matter were welcome and that everybody was free to contribute in anyway but everyone knew that it was a false pretense and that not only could they not bring up these concerns in official meetings but if they were found having these discussions outside the from, they would be killed. This was a fact that wasn't official but was widely known. Now this fact itself made it into a lot of fiction that addressed these ideas and for those fiction this was an artificial barrier that was worked around.
When it comes to PP, this is an artificial barrier but a barrier that wasn't addressed in the show itself and rather you made it up to justify them not doing something which should have been done. The main characters were doing things worse than questioning their reality on daily basis and they always worked around the problem of clouded hue. Now the dilemma of a totalitarian communist regime was very much worse than the one here. The show did not have these conversations because it had no desire about it, the characters would have actively taken a position and show wanted the characters to remain passive. All the main characters save for Kougami and Makishima were passive reactionary characters and Kougami was a reactionary character. The excuse is bullshit.

>>9860985
Even reading old books is subversive since half the artist Sibyl society are locked up and forced into therapy.

>>9860772
I mean you never made any arguments either, so I never felt and reasoning to post an argument myself.
Also my initial comment was more of an idea of just try to keep a little bit of a less presumptuous mind.

>>9862853
>no you
stopped reading there

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/a/ here wtf are you guys talking about?
No CAUSE I FEEEEEL memes?

>>9860876
>In the span of 2 hours and 20 minutes 2001 A Space Odyssey goes from the dawn of mankind to the dawn of new species. In the span of less than 300 pages a text like V For Vendetta goes from an authoritarian state where everyone is oppressed to a new beginning.
I'd like to argue that the plot simply showing more physical stuff happening doesn't actually mean a better story. A lot of the change came from the characters.

>What Psycho Pass achieves in the span of 22 episodes is make its one dimensional character two dimensional
I actually think that the characters had more depth to that, which is pointed to in other messages.

>Second, that he knows the value of his name when it comes to create an IP and he told a a story that alluded to change while keeping the status quo so that people can come back to it again and again like idiots.
It's not really fair to punish someone for creating a story with implied potential for physical plot because of the author's name. Psycho Pass, in my eyes, showed a shit ton of change and questioning in the characters that lead into the themes of the story, which I think is more than enough for the show.

>the summarization of the themes that anon did is more or less what show tried to achieve.
Can I ask why the show didn't achieve those themes when the post came to the conclusion of those themes based off of what appeared in the story.

>>9861186
>but a barrier that wasn't addressed in the show itself and rather you made it up to justify them not doing something which should have been done
If you look at a character like Ginoza, isn't seeing you dad and friend having a darkening hue and being punished while everyone and everything that is in your life telling you it's a good thing is quite enough of a justification for following Sibyl.
Also in the end Ginoza actually did reject Sibyl and decide to pursue his job as a full detective while ignoring the objections of Sibyl. Pretty much everyone if given a reason to not question except for tech girl who was a pair of walking tits and not welcome.

>>9862900
>I say you have no argument
>He said it's because I never made an argument to put forward and instead just posted a reply to feel smart
>I'll just accuse him of no u.

>>9862934
Whom are you quoting? Again read >>>9860772

>>9862939
I quoted who I meant to quote. I summed up what happened from your perspective, and I will continue to unless you provide an argument otherwise.
Show me one argument you've made.

>>9862951
>I quoted who I meant to quote
So who would that be? are you drunk? These are all normal questions.

>>9862959
Oh sorry. I thought you meant who are you replying to as in what I said could never apply to the post I linked.
I completely forgot about the purists that only want to use green text for quotes with the thread. Sorry about that.

>>9862966
Huh? If you're not quoting anyone doesn't that mean you're talking to yourself? Seriously why would you do that? Then you're blaming some sort of boogieman called 'purists'? Are you sure you're 100 in the head?

>>9843966
cringed at the video. and no, physical books are not superior in any way.

>>9862996
I was paraphrasing the person's apparent thought process. Clearly I am not one of those purists that thinks greentext can only be quotations.

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>>9862901
You blind son? >>9849677 Where's my (You)?

Anyways, does Urobuchi have a fetish for tropical shitholes? He put one in Fate/Zero, made the Psycho-Pass made take place in one, and Gargantia (which I'm curretly going through) also takes place in one. Is Gen telling me that the übermensch strives for the Rousseaunian life?

>>9863044
>I was talking to myself
Say no more.

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>>9843966
>anime up its own ass more than fucking /li/
>fucking dubbed

>>9862929
>If you look at a character like Ginoza, isn't seeing you dad and friend having a darkening hue and being punished while everyone and everything that is in your life telling you it's a good thing is quite enough of a justification for following Sibyl.
No, it's a shite justification for not addressing the ideas properly. Like I said, an artificial narrative barrier. I don't want to sound pretentious but having consumed a lot of well done text in a lot of medium, it's easier to see the patterns and see through the intentions.

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>>9843966
I like both. Currently reading some of the less popular works by Dostoevsky on my kobo. It's nice to have his complete library on it.

>>9862902
>I'd like to argue that the plot simply showing more physical stuff happening doesn't actually mean a better story. A lot of the change came from the characters.
And I would say that you can achieve immense amount in terms of exploring grandiose ideas whilenot losing the sight of the characters. All the things I listed there do exactly that.
>I actually think that the characters had more depth to that, which is pointed to in other messages.
When I think of well fleshed out characters with actual depth, I think of things like Rakugo or Mushishi or Evangelion (keeping examples strictly anime). PP is nowhere near as close. So not really a good defense. The arcs were very predictable and lacked a lot of nuances.
>It's not really fair to punish someone for creating a story with implied potential for physical plot because of the author's name. Psycho Pass, in my eyes, showed a shit ton of change and questioning in the characters that lead into the themes of the story, which I think is more than enough for the show.
I believe that artistic expression should never be chained but the inevitable commercialization of art. Gen Urobuchi has the resources to produce pure art but he chooses to produce commercialized art. It is a very fair criticism.
>Can I ask why the show didn't achieve those themes when the post came to the conclusion of those themes based off of what appeared in the story.
I've said where the themes were unexplored and potential untapped already.

>>9863121
Ginoza's reaction is precisely the way Japanese people typically act in that type of situation. You think the author is trying to trick you when in fact he doesn't even have you in mind; the comparison with the communist regimes misses the mark because that's not the type of society Psycho-Pass is talking about to begin with.

>>9863204
It didn't have to be Ginoza, it could have been anyone. It's not that hard to add a few conversations and work around the barrier.
My comparison with communist regime is there to juxtapose the similarities and difference between the choices Urobuchi made. People in communist regime didn't want to question the authority out of mortal fear, the same fear that's in PP. But the fiction that addressed these ideas, that had the barriers did not shine away from those conversations. That's what you need to understand. No justification for not doing something when you could've easily done it and the material would be better for it, would be enough and it'll always be fairest of criticism.

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>>9863312
>People in communist regime didn't want to question the authority out of mortal fear, the same fear that's in PP.
Except the reason people don't act in PP isn't because of mortal fear. It was because of apathy, ignorance and self-satisfaction. The people ruled by Sybil are too *secure*, not too insecure. This is exemplified perfectly when the hue altering helmets are introduced: someone gets murdered on the middle of a street and pedestrians don't even think it's real. This isn't the society you're talking about--I know because that's the type of society I've been living for most of my life. When you're impotent and afraid for your life you don't walk on the streets calmly. If you want to see what type of society Psycho-Pass is addressing go look at modern Japan. This isn't a story about political systems, it's about what must be done to obtain meaning in a society that provides you with none in order to perpetuate itself.

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>>9863121
It's called show don't tell.
>>9863121
>but having consumed a lot of well done text in a lot of medium, it's easier to see the patterns and see through the intentions.

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>>9850059
lol, like that scene in Shin Megami Tensei IV, where some random-ass farmer or baker comes up and proselytizes about the virtues of literature.

"now, what was i reading? hm.. let's see... oh, right! osamu dazai's 'no longer human'." of course, i jej'd because i had already read it. sometimes i think that there are animu/gaymu creators that are desparate for young otaku to read a fucking book.

With printed books you can buy one with cash, anonymously. It's yours, and you are not required to sign a license that restricts your use of it. The format is simple, and uniform and no proprietary technology is needed to read the book.
You have the right to give, lend or sell the book to another. You can copy the book and it can't be remotely destroyed either.

Contrast that with ebooks which are generally purchased online using credit/debit cards (not anonymous). In some countries, including the US, Amazon says the user cannot own the ebook. Amazon requires the user to accept a restrictive license on use of the ebook. The format is secret and only proprietary user-restricting software lawfully supports it. The Kindle tells Amazon what page the user is reading, plus any notes the user enters.
An ersatz “lending” is allowed for some books, for a limited time, but only by specifying by name another user of the same system. No giving or selling. Copying the ebook is blocked by Digital Restrictions Management . Amazon can remotely delete the ebook using a back door. In 2009, Amazon deleted thousands of copies of George Orwell's 1984. this way. Amazon can do anything to a Kindle user through a universal back door.

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>>9846440
>physical books, they're better for memorisation
I call bull.
>1 book costs less than 1 e-reader
Nigga it's not like you buy a new reader with each book. And if you are a "I only read one book" type of guy, you're hardly gonna by an e-reader. That's like saying "buying a bus ticket is cheaper than buying a car"
>high resolution vivid color images without backlights.
any decent e-reader these days as high enough res to be indistinguishable if not better than actual books, and cheaply printed books with flaky letters are probably more common. As for backlight, I can't speak for all E-readers but on my Paperwhite if you turn it down, it is 100% unoticable, and other than a "real" book, I can read it when it gets dark without having to turn on the lights. (and since the light can be adjusted, it's comfy as fuck, has never hurt my eyes etc).
>with an unlimited amount of storage
literally doesn't exist in this universe. Somehow when it comes to price you assume "if you only read one book" but when it comes to storage you assume people having infinite amounts of it? E-book will ALWAYS win on storage. simple.
Price itself is arguable. Ebooks are cheaper (usually) but the reader can be expensive. for me, I pirated enough books to have made my money back
>all that screen talk
But the decent E-readers are using E-Ink rather than screens. Have you tried it? It's like reading paper, it's fucking brilliant. I hate reading on screens but on kindle it's 100% fine. And the paperwhite is gently lit from the sides, I had absolutely no eyestrain from with at all.
I was raised on Physical books and I've come to prefer E-books to almost any kind of book, certain specialist works full of technical drawings and such would probably still be better on paper but for anything that doesn't have pictures in it? No reason to buy Paper over E, except maybe a sentimental one. There are just too many advantages.
Fuck, even battery life has become decent enough that you can go on a month long vacation, forget your charger and probably be fine if you charged the thing before you went.

>>9863568
forgot some things:
>DRM
literally never run into that issue and kindle is one of the more restrictive fuckers. Download Calibre, and put it trough that once before putting it on your device.
>At any price with an unlimited amount of storage, paper books are superior overall.
At any price? I mean E-books will ultimately be cheaper or even pirateable so.. meh
but superior overall? If I want to read a different book, I have to GET UP and get it. fucking hell, already in the minus. If I want to read something with a decent page count I got this massive fucking thing in my hands, E-reader is lighter AND more handy. Ever tried to read in bed lying on your side? Either one page floats weirdly in the air, or you have to hold it up to read the other, No need for that with an e-reader as it is single page. And guess what? You also don't have to worry about damaging the spine on an E-reader (guess this point is neutral if you're one of these sick fucks that just bends them over, like an animal). And if you're an hippie: the more books you read digitally, the fewer trees get destroyed.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a nostalgiafag for a good physical book, But I'm not to blind to see that digital is actually the superior form.
Bonus round! Reading something in a second language and don't know a work? "click" on the word and get a dictionary entry! Reading something about a subject you are not super familiar with? (for me this was Irish mythology recently) Click on it and get a quick wiki entry!
And on a personal note: I'm a germanfag, but I like to read my books in english rather than german translations. Most local libraries or book stores would have to order them and I'd have to wait. NEVER had to wait on an e-book in my life. So E-books are 24/7 available, while you actually have to either get out, or order and wait for a physical copy.

>>9863352
I don't think you understand the parallel I brought up. I devised the argument on not the basis of extreme nature of governance rather how people react in the situation. People become afraid for their safety, people become ignorant or apathetic. These are all conscious choices in the fiction to depict the society just as the conscious choice to add the barrier and conscious choice to avoid the subject. Your point so far have been a series of justification for why he didn't do it but you possibly couldn't believe that he couldn't really do it. Just few characters having a lengthy ethical conversation would be just as representative of the society as a whole as the character of Makishima. So there was no reason why it couldn't exist. I don't really like passiveness and pussyfooting around the difficult topic in my fiction. However if you continue to move the goalposts, feel free to do so.
>>9863433
>It's called show don't tell
Yeah I'm sure the writer who isn't intelligent enough to deliver believable exposition and tone deaf enough to think referencing PKD and Gibson is showing literary knowledge is actually intelligent enough to convey broader ideas in subtlest of manner.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yDum3gehFg0

>>9863611
literally2deep4u

>>9863609
Oh and one plus point for the grills: reading their romance/porn books in public.

>>9863624
Back to /a/, my barely literate weeb.

>>9863121
I think we're at complete crossroads here because I consider that a fine justification for a character's behavior to follow the system. The show doesn't need to explicitly say why through some narrator.

>>9863155
I've seen all three of those anime, and I consider the PP characters just as deep except maybe rakugo.

>>9863312
People didn't necessarily have a conscious fear. They were more mentally brainwashed and bullied until they thought of the sibyl system as right.
This was explained in episode 1 when Ginoza monologued that he's let the sibyl system guide him because life is just easier with the system. Ginoza's experience of seeing Kogami slowly becoming marked a criminal made him feel like questioning sibyl was a waste.
The sibyl system doesn't literally threaten it just made people tuning differently and punish dissidents, which is highly effective towards controlling people.

>>9863611
I think Makishina would be better for the story even if a few conversations could achieve philosophical weight.
From what I could tell we just have different values of what we wanted from the story. Nothing wrong with that.

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>>9863611
I'm not moving the goalpost, you're the one demanding something the text never promised and making false equivalences. All of this was raised by you, not me. Philosophy and world building are always a backdrop in Urobuchi's works--the means, not the ends.

You complain about the author's choices but those choices are based on how people factually behave, are behaving right now. Why does the story have to lie to you so you can get your answers? Why should he write characters that would know and think things they ought not to? So he can write a book for nobody in particular and so not be branded "commercial" but instead gather dust on the museum?

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>>9863793
>From what I could tell we just have different values of what we wanted from the story. Nothing wrong with that.
This is like trying to reason with the person who gives Ulysses 1 star on GoodReads or something. Their criteria is totally nonsensical and it's folly incarnate to try and engage them.

>>9863647
>muh true scottsman
Literally been here since day 1. It occurs to me that if you were in fact well read and had real exposure to art you'd better be able to appreciate things like PP -- instead of say shrieking at everyone who disagrees and dismissing them as less intelligent simply by virtue of the fact they disagree. Sad!

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>>9863835
Crazy how there are universally good books not everyone likes.

>>9863846
Literature isn't for everyone.

>>9863860
Then everyone shouldn't be for literature.

I visited a high street newsagent recently and was genuinely surprised to see that magazines are still published. I haven't bought one in about fifteen years and I really did think they were something that had just disappeared.

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>>9863568
>>9863609
This but also fuck e-readers - just read from you phone. You already have one - why spend more money?

>>9864451
>why spend more money?
To avoid going blind. Reading on a conventional digital screen is much harsher.

>>9864572
I read from monitor for about 10 years every day and my vision is just fine. Same with phone - just keep the distance and you will be fine.

>>9863842
All this proves is that despite being here since day1 you're unintelligent

>>9864949
I'm rubber you're glue

>>9865025
You're saying you're female? Christ that explains a lot.

Plot is irrelevant to a work of art you dimwits. If you are going to analyse this Psycho-Pass cartoon then stop talking about Sybil and start talking about the reactions of the central characters.

>>9865115
>and start talking about the reactions of the central characters.
What reactions though? You can't just claim the whole thread is criticizing PP wrongly.