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Do you subvocalize while reading?
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hell no. i can read a whole paragraph at a time
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>>9841270
yep
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>>9841270
I only find myself doing it when I'm speedreading something. Usually take my time with actual literature and stuff, but while I'm online reading shitposts or updates on whatever I'm following it tends to arise.
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>>9841270
not when I'm reading shitposts on the internet
but yeah, when i'm reading a book and I want to maximize comprehension, I subvocalize and take my time.
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I'm a patrician, so of course. I subvocalized this comment before typing it out and I'm doing it again as I hit the keys right now.
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>>9841270
Absolutely. It's more to the pace of a train of thought and that makes it easier to maintain focus and parse the information.
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>>9841278
how is that even possible?
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>>9841270
I always subvocalize, I just never learnt how to read in another way than vocalizing. Is there really another way of reading?
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>>9841328
This. I can't imagine any other way to read.
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>>9841294
>>9841313
There's a structure to language when properly used. Once you read enough you can kind of deduce the structure or logical progression of whatever you're reading, unless it's something empirical that has a lot of specific facts. But if you're reading fiction or something and it's just a description of a room you can just get it all in a glance.
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>>9841341
I literally cannot imagine/understand this concept. I just can't comprehend reading but not actually reading all the words.
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>>9841354
It's exactly like when you drive someplace you've driven to 1000 times before. You just do it
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>>9841270
how do you not?
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>be on /lit/ board
>literally can't read
And I thought /mu/ was bad
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>>9841270
Everyone does. It's impossible not to.
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It takes some practice but I can do it. Although I rarely do - it reduces comprehension and retention rates at least for myself, and if I bother to read something it's usually because I want to retain the information thoroughly.
Or if I'm reading a novel then I like to subvocalize to appreciate the sounds.
Really anybody can choose to "speed read", all you do is move your eyes to the next word before you find yourself subvocalizing.
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>>9841270
reading is subvocalising. it's impossible not to.
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What's your "head voice" sound like? Most of the time I read it like the way I hear my own voice, but sometimes after hearing one person speak for a while - for example, after listening to a podcast - I will read in the podcast's narrator's voice for a while.
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>>9842708
It is very possible, there are some gr8 free resources on speed reading. I suggest giving them a l00K
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>>9841270
Yes. Obnoxiously.
I got hung up on monotone narration.
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>>9841270
Yes. I retain a lot more if I hear myself say in my head.
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>>9842924
>I will read in the podcast's narrator's voice for a while.
I should start doing this.
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What is subvocalizing? Reading it under my breath? Changing voices w characters?
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>>9841270
somtimes i notice i can scan over sentences with my eyes much more rapidly than could be subvocalised and yet i absorb the information, but then i get anxious as to whether I've retained it, and i re-read it with internal voice active, and I realise I did understand it the first time around... It's a very strange thing! Worthy of a study / book / field even
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>>9843003
Reading it aloud in your head. Dont worry about it, this is the /lit/ equivalent of drinking water between sets for /fit/ dummies; literally every reasonable human being does it, and the only people who pride themselves on not doing it are the most autistic of all the 4chan autists.
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>>9843020
Ok. So how does one not do it if everyone does it naturally?
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Poetry - Yes
Prose - Depends on the book
Non-fiction - Not usually unless I'm rereading a particularly difficult paragraph
Internet - Hell no
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>>9841270
Literally thought about it earlier this year, read inside my head just to see what it was like and now I can't stop sub vocalizing.
I fucking hate it, worst mistake of my life, genuinely enjoy reading a lot less now as a result.
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>>9843396
Try going "1-2-3" in your head each line for a while.
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So to those of you who don't subvocalize.
Do you just let your eyes scan over the words and your brain do the work, without really "thinking" about it?
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Imagine subvocalising every shitpost you read on a congolese horse riding forum
Every sentence being spoken in your head, in fact many people are probably reading this to themselves right now, some shitposter's message being read aloud in their head
Despite all my memeing I still subvocalise though since it's difficult to stop once your attention is drawn to it, a lot like breathing or eye blinks
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>>9843034
You don't want to not do it
Unless you're a savant you suffer a ton in comprehension if you don't subvocalize
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>>9843494
Do you think these posters who are saying they read "a paragraph at a time" are bullshitting?
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Haha no, I read aloud.
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Why would you not subvocalise?
The only people who bash subvocalising are pleb overweight skinny fat business people who read airport books and who try not to subvocalise in order to "increase reading productivity". Squash from 5-6, meetings from 6-7, enriching myself with Shakespeare from 7-8.
Of course also the even dumber plebs as well
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>>9843507
Only if they claimed to have retained it just as well
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>>9841270
I used to suscribe to that meme of not subvocalizing. However, when I don't subvocalise I lose focus after a few pages. I get that all too commun feel where you read a whole page and don't even remember what it was about. I also find subvocalising at speech speed enrich the prose of great novels.
Pic related, the style and color of the prose takes shape only with good subvocalisation.
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>>9841270
This thread is a great premise for an academic thesis to be honest.
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I don't get it, I've never "subvocalised" at all. Why do you recite words in your head like a child learning to read? It'd be the difference between finishing a book in a week or a month, and I really don't think it would allow greater comprehension at all
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>>9841270
I subvocalize books with bigger words, pretty sure that once you understand the concept of every word in a book you can read it hella fast.
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>all these plebs
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I've always had a problem where I would read pages and paragraphs in my head but forget literally everything about what I just read and would have to reread. I noticed my mind just fucking trailed off somewhere else, all the while simultaneously reading. Possibly due to adhd... Has this happened to anyone else? If so, how can I keep my focus consistent when reading?
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>>9844861
Or possibly, you know, due to you thinking something else.
Not everything has to be a mental illness but there are those who would like for you to think that.
Anyway, the easy solution to your problem is to do a manual check of attention every three lines until you find yourself present every time, you'll know when to stop.
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>>9843418
Read and then form a concept of the meaning in your head. Although this is probably what you (should) do with subvocalizing too.
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I suppose so as I have trouble understanding dialog written in dialect. Seeing all those unfamiliar words is like hitting a wall, I have to think how they are pronounced to get the meaning. As there is this big difference between regular language and dialect I think it's likely that I don't subvocalize (or not a lot).
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>>9841270
I read out loud to also cultivate my ability of speech and articulance. That's for books though.
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I subvocalize while writing.
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>>9844861
I only have this when I smoked weed, I can't read or do math when stoned. Everything is just incomprehensable and it takes me forever to process anything.
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Only subhumans subvocalize.
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>>9843823
tfw i have a shitty monotone voice and hate subvocalizing
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I always subvocalize with funny voices so if I'm reading something hard or serious I can giggle because all the characters are goofy.
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I don't think you can not subvocalize, since text is abstract. Otherwise you wouldn't comprehend anything you've read. It's similar to, say, seeing colors, where you can notice different colors inherently, but to actually comprehend a color as "red", you have to subvocalize, since language is abstract. Reading isn't like breathing, it's closer to math than something inherent and emotional. Shit meme.
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>>9845721
Incorrect. You are just to unintelligent too understand.
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>>9845192
Correct: humans vocalize when they read.
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>>9841294
>>9841313
I don't think about it the same way as >>9841341.
In fact, I don't think about it.
I started by speed reading single lines - running my eyes over the lines at a predetermined, steady pace. Simultaneously, I would do focus exercises, wherein an object of focus is chosen, stared at for approximately 15 or 30 seconds and then the eyes are closed and the object is viewed in as much detail as possible within the mind's eye. At the moment the vision begins to fade, the object is momentarily glanced at before quickly closing one's eyes and meditating upon the object once more. This is done for about five minutes at a time, daily.
After a while, I just started to be able to read paragraphs at a time - taking the entire paragraph in at once as an image, and entire pages would be read in about three seconds this way.
I cannot access this ability perfunctorily. I have to have been reading for a while already, and then I begin to be able to do it.
However, I have realized, once accessed, this ability can be sustained for any length of time, so long as I do not subvocalize, or shift my attention from the work.
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>>9845148
Same here. I really wish I could read stoned. It would be so comfy.
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>he thought-vocalizes
Just when I thought /lit/ couldn't get any more pathetic
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the mechanism for reading is shifting, has shifted, and will continue to shift.
http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9804/ip.html
an interesting bit on the first recorded person to read silently.
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>I never did it at all
Sure I read aloud in the beginning, until someone said
>You can read silently
So I did.
Why would you even ever subvocalize?
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I didn't even know subvocalizing while reading was a thing.
I'll give it a try and see if it improves my experience with reading.
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>>9846396
Read Ulysses for the first time while stoned. Something tells me it will be a much different book the second time around.
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I read out loud most of the time. Very fun and stops that shittiness where you're reading and thinking of something else entirely most of the time. Also it keeps you awake if you're reading at night. Gets somewhat tiresome though and I have to stop after 30 pages or so.
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>>9846396
This
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Yes I do, and in fact, it makes me read faster since I absorb what I'm reading and don't need to reread.
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Do deaf people subvocalize?
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>>9842681
This desu
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>>9846987
Exactly, they don't. Deaf people can't read.
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>>9846987
No, I have deaf people in my family. They think different because they don't have linguistic thoughts. This is assuming that they were born deaf, of course. This also makes their humor very bizarre as well. I've been to certain functions and they had some magazine for "Deaf Culture" and there were comics inside that were just like, what the fuck man?
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> didnt subvocalize as a child just burned thtough the pages
> become teenager
> got the pussy
> teenage love and parties
> livin that normie life
> stop reading
> become incapable of reading without subvocalizing
Its an abstract feel... i want my reading skills back. Its so agonizingly slow to read while subvocalizing....
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>>9841270
the reading voice in your head is essential when developing speech, when your voice in your head speaks the words you read its as if you are practicing speaking as well, which in turn improves your speech performance
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>>9846396
It's fantastic. I have trouble focusing in general, but cannabis helps me immerse myself in what I'm doing. I find that I retain maybe about 20% of read material compared to a sober re-read. But, that 20% is so comfy and stupendous.
Reading "The Mayan Caper" in Soft Machine was wonderful stoned. ee cummings is great high.
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>>9846731
If you learned a verbal language naturally the odds say you are already subvocalizing. It isn't some extended reading technique. It is something that verbal language speakers/readers do and it is almost impossible to eliminate.
This is just from the academic reading I've done on subvocalization. Idk. I could be wrong.
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>>9841270
sometimes, depending on the book; for example,
i'm currently reading Ishmael Reed's Mumbo Jumbo, and because of the 1920s black vernacular and style i'm not used to (being irish), i've been reading more slowly, subvocalizing to better understand the flow of the language.
for books with more beige prose i won't bother doing this (at least deliberately doing this) but in this case the book reads much better as a result.
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no. in writing with characters, i do usually "hear" them speaking with unique voices in my mind, like how you start painting a picture of scenes in your mind when they're described
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>>9847736
do you have any examples? i'd love to see deaf humor and get a sense of what you mean
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>>9847736
>deaf humor
This sounds very intriguing.
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I actively do it if I am reading a text which is dense and hard to read, like philosophy or books written in the 20s and 30s when English prose was very different. But if it's just modern day language then there is no need for me to actively have a voice in my head.
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>>9844861
I often do this when the text I am reading is difficult to digest. Just slow down and read slowly, and you will be good.
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>>9844861
this probably happens to everyone but it is incredibly common for people with adhd, probably to a greater extent. any time i read any kind of book, i usually wind up having to reread each page for the first few pages a few times until i've adjust to the reading process
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>>9849272
>>9849302
This was years ago, mind you, so the only comic I can really recall is a single frame comic of a woman going in for an operation to have a phone surgically attached to their face. That's it. Just her sitting in the doctor's office and they're attaching a phone to her face. I was about 10 or so when I saw it and I didn't get it, but my mother explained to me that deaf people think people who can hear are always attached to their phones so it's funny to them. My mother isn't deaf, but her older sister and grandmother are so she's all into that. I myself have a hard time keeping up with cousins and such that are deaf because I wasn't really raised to "speak" sign language, but spending enough time around them you can tell they think a little different. Not retarded or weird or anything, but they approach certain things slightly different.
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>>9846348
What focus exercise is this? I'm curious. In primary school I knew a guy who would read like a book a day or every two days and I was always really jealous of how fast he could read.
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>>9848716
This also essential for comprehension and retention
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>>9849302
There a movie of Pryor and Wilder where they both play a blind man and a deaf, really funny.
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>>9841270
I find i actually read faster when i don't do that.
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>>9849827
You may laugh to hear it, but it is a relic of a time when my life was entrenched in the martial arts. It comes from the book 72 Arts of Shaolin, and is considered a foundational exercise for training vision and rapid comprehension in combat.
The literary ramifications were completely unforseen.
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>>9841270
Not consciously so, like I assume you're asking
You cant form images as well when you are going hard on the subvocalizing
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the 'other way of reading' for those confused is this:
picture how you read when you are fully immersed in a book -- it is all images and you 'read'/grasp sentences all at once , as opposed to strict subvocalizing the voice/rhythms/etc/etc
it is basically that all the time
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>Robert E Howard used to bellow his prose out loud as he typed it, through the walls of his apartment
Get on his level.
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As a patrician, I hold the book up in front of me and rub the relevant page against my face, absorbing both the literal meaning of the text and any deeper meanings the author may have intended (or unintended). From the throne in my mind palace I look down on all of you with a disdainful sneer.
*rubs face against laptop*
Aha. Ahahaha. Heh heh...
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>>9842924
My "head voice" sounds like one of those 50's radio broadcasters most of the time. Which is extremely bizarre because I'm a black guy from Brooklyn.
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>>9851601
Is that what happens when you activate your almonds?
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>>9841270
Yes. If I'm reading fiction it enhances the immersion and pleasure I get. If I'm studying or reading non-fiction it greatly helps memorization.
I have taught myself to speed read, but I just find it pointless most of the time. I might use it if it's a news article or a long wikipedia page for something I'm only reading to understand a reference but otherwise I go slow. Often even slower than my fastest "non speed reading" speed.
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>>9846348
>Simultaneously, I would do focus exercises, wherein an object of focus is chosen, stared at for approximately 15 or 30 seconds and then the eyes are closed and the object is viewed in as much detail as possible within the mind's eye. At the moment the vision begins to fade, the object is momentarily glanced at before quickly closing one's eyes and meditating upon the object once more. This is done for about five minutes at a time, daily.
This actually sounds like it has a point, not just for reading. Do you have a name or a link for this exercise so I might look into some more details?
>I knew a guy who would read like a book a day or every two days and I was always really jealous of how fast he could read.
And Tai Lopez reads 10 books a day. Only people impressed by these "speed stunts" are people who don't read at all. Anybody can flip pages quickly and glimpse at the pages, what you can recall from it is all that matters.
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I am at a complete loss to understand how people can read without subvocalizing
it's like literally blowing my mind people read without doing this
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>>9852464
I don't think anyone does it naturally, it's the first thing you teach yourself to do when learning to speedread.
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>>9852355
Yes, the point, as I've noted here >>9851314, is to train rapid comprehension of a situation for combat. At least, that is the original intent of the exercise. However, what it really trains is visual memory retention and, indeed, swift comprehension. It is applicable to many things. The resultant impact on my literary life was merely a byproduct of years of practice and regular reading.
72 Arts of Shaolin was a collaboration by three Shaolin monks during the late 19th century. It is a fascinating read.
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>>9841270
everytime I read something,it's works on itself,I don't control it. It's really cool thing..I mean..I can't describe it with words,it's too awesome
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>>9843823
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>>9852743
Do I need to read the book to get any additional details on the exercise? I tried doing what you said and I can see it being very helpful in training short term memory. I don't really care about martial arts, though I do appreciate their "spiritual" side and the self-control aspect that comes with many of them.
What kind of objects do you pick? Is it supposed to be something small enough so you can see everything without moving your eyes? Or do you move your eyes around it trying to memorize details before closing your eyes?
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>>9852791
You do not need to read it. What details I've given should suffice.
I've found you can do this exercise at any time, with any object - though it is helpful to start with smaller, less detailed objects and increase size and/or complexity over time, and even an image may be selected as the object of focus.
One should attempt to absorb the object(s) in as much detail as possible. Incorporating other details, such as texture, scent, or even taste, such higher-dimensionality can only help to strengthen your memory and perception. Whether you gaze or let your eyes wander, either will suffice, do whichever suits you.
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>>9841357
No, i dont.
Thats how you get into accidents.
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>>9854607
I've driven blacked out before multiple times. It's really all just muscle memory anon.
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Unless you're not a literal retard that didn't finish high school, you should not subvocalize.
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>speedreading
No point as you don't even reflect on what you're reading, feel free to speedread philosophy and retain even 1% and understand 0,00000000001% of it.
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>>9855337
Whatever you say so readlet.
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>>9843376
This
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>>9845250
>subvocalizing with your own voice
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>>9841270
of course, i'm not a psychopath
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>>9855337
>Not speedreading Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit
Kek what a pleb. I bet you haven't even skimmed a textbook on abstract algebra so as to teach yourself group theory in a single afternoon.
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>>9841354
Research has actually shown that 'speed reading' is actually just skimming (skipping).
Speed readers have extremely low retention of information.
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>>9841270
Sometimes. I'm trying to get rid of it as I started subvocalizing intentionally.
But you know, I'm also starting to think it might be a natural mechanic that keeps you reading at a pace which keeps you at a good point of balance between speed and information retention.
Whether you should subvocalize or not might really depend on how dense the text is.
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>>9848451
same lmao. i learned to read probably before i could speak. I trained myself to subvocalize in order to focus on the individual words and not just breeze through the story.
it was a mistake. i feel like a prole, and reading is such a chore now
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>>9856193
has... has anyone?
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only when i'm reading Homer
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>>9841270
Depends. Very often I vocalize while reading in foreign language to improve my pronunciation and I think it also helps making passive vocabulary active. Other than that I mostly subvocalize when reading books. If I'm reading news or some other crap I don't.
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i usually sing actually
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>>9857707
>not reading Homer in Greek out loud
Idiot.
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I listened to a few audiobooks before tackling any serious literature. I tried subvocalizing but ended up hearing a British voice and it fucked with my focus.
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I dramatize everything I read.
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>>9852464
i would bet you a lot of money no skilled writer or person who enjoys language would ever 'remove' subvocalization.
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no, words are symbols, i don't need subvocalize abstract concepts, i'm not an idiot
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>>9858837
this but unironically
i genuinely never have subvocalized. sometimes when i overthink it i'll end up doing like (like directly after i read threads like these) but otherwise i'm just a visual reader.
what do people who subvocalize do when they come across a word they don't know how to pronounce?
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>>9856255
>I'm also starting to think it might be a natural mechanic
It is. Subvocalization is a mechanism of the brain that cannot be eliminated. It is subdued as reading speeds increase. Did no one in this thread even bother to open the wikipedia page on subvocalization? You are either speed reading or subvocalizing at some level. If you are an exceptional case I suggest walking to the nearest research university and submitting yourself as a subject in a revolutionary thesis on the neurology of reading.
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>>9858852
>i genuinely never have subvocalized
According to neurologists, you genuinely have and do. Subvocalization cannot be totally eliminated.
I could be wrong. I'll be back with some research.
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>>9858852
>what do people who subvocalize do when they come across a word they don't know how to pronounce?
Approximate a pronunciation. It doesn't happen consciously.
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Do you subvocalize math exercises?
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It's probably beneficial but it takes too much energy. I get tired after reading 10 pages, and I could read 50 more otherwise. I only do it when a sentence has a difficult grammar structure.
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>>9859595
Do you subvocalize when you masturbate to nignog shefags moaning?
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>>9844861
It's a completely unconscious action but is precipitated by distraction.
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>>9858877
As I said though, I started doing it intentionally as a teenager. I read a lot in my childhood and never subvocalized.
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Yeah. Subvocalising helps to understand the rhythm of the words. I like it
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>>9858732
patrician
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