1984

>>9835933
also other books like 1984. (not animal farm)

>>9835933
>>>/r/books

>>9835933
It's an easy and fun read, but to be honest not very high-tier. Together with Animal Farm, It's just too blatantly anti-stalinist literature.

>>9835933
reddit tier. Good introduction lit for preteens I guess

>>9835933
A good book, although not a masterpiece.
>>9836154
>>9836207
>>>/r/literature

>>9836194
This. It's a favorite amongst people who claim to know what they're talking about concerning political affairs, which is a sign that they probably haven't read it, or think they're woke because they focused on the backdrop of the story and not the main point.

>>9835933
Solid and important. Orwell didn't fully get it, but he got it better than most at the time due to his involvement with the jewish Fabian Society and naming of the jew through (((Goldstein))).

>>9835933
It's okay. Orwell's essays are a lot better.

>>9835933
Really good but over-memed and thus overlooked by morons who think that the most important message is a condemnation against any one regime instead of about how politics in general is conducted. If you want the former, read Animal Farm. If you want to understand the importance of 1984, then read the essay Politics in the English Language before reading 1984, and then you'll understand just how bad Orwell thought politics could become, even without the powerful using overtly authoritarian tactics to get their way.

Last chapter is the best chapter. I fucking hate seeing it everywhere though; his actual political works are far more interesting.

DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH

TRUMP MEMES ARE ORWELLIAN AND FASCISM

>>9835933
>War is Peace
Tolstoy a hack!

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>>9835933
It wasn't supposed to be an instruction manual.

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An excellent book that perfectly depicts, in fantasy, an ideal socialist state, that Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Arhipelag perfectly portrays in reality.
A fundamental book in understanding the 20th century. It's written in a very clear language, as well. So it's ideal for beginners that are interested, or confused, as to what their history was like.
He provides you with essays of his stumblings towards poverty, an aidos fueled self-empoverishment. He discovers. through his prole travels, why socialism is a faith for the wretched, the feminists, the vegetarians, the sex freaks and such.
A company he'd rather not be in as a "true" socialist.
I like to think that he; like Dostoevsky, in his last year, when he completed 1984, 6 months before dying; also discovered through his greatest work that this faith,socialism, is soul corrupting and only villifies the successful and excuses the wretched to slaughter, and take from the rich and give to the poor.

>>9836369
Orwell was a socialist though. He just hated the USSR.

>>9836374
No he hated Stalinism/Totalitarianism

Depicts a paradise tbqh

Nearly dropped it when it started talking about the main character's dreams. It's only use is as exploration as a setting, not for prose quality, characters, or story.

>>9836388
So he hated the USSR?
He was still a socialist himself.

>>9836374
So?

>>9836413
So the book doesn't depict "an ideal socialist state". It just depicts how socialist language is vulnerable to highjacking by, essentially, any ideology that wishes to reinforce class and hierarchy.

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>>9836429
No, it does. That's what happens when your ideology is built on jealousy and a couple of slogans. There's nothing to hijack.
But go ahead, use the;

>not real socialism

argument.

It's the ideal idealized in the ideology. Equality. Everyone equally worthless and thus expendable.
The evidence for that is the Gulag Arhipelag. Orwell's fantasy in reality, which was the USSR, Yugoslavia and Cuba. The Venezuela, China and North Korea of today.
Funny how you said he didn't hate socialism, just he USSR. As if there's a difference.

>>9835933
I enjoyed it for what it was but it's VERY on the nose. I enjoyed the tweest though.

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>>9836506
Way to resort to shitposting without presenting any actual argument. There's a whole book about Orwell's socialist views.
>That's what happens when your ideology is built on jealousy and a couple of slogans
>I have never read any socialist theory

>Orwell's fantasy in reality, which was the USSR, Yugoslavia and Cuba
So that's why he devoted two books critiquing the brutality of USSR and totalitarian countries?

>Funny how you said he didn't hate socialism, just he USSR. As if there's a difference.
Because there is a difference, you fucking idiot. Why not lump in every authoritarian state in there while you're at it. It's like saying there's no difference between Nazi Germany, Tito's Yugoslavia, Maoist China, and Nero's Rome.

What the fuck are you on about dude? My whole point was that Orwell was a socialist, and stayed a socialist till he died. That doesn't mean he can't be disgusted with how the USSR was functioning.

>>9836548
Orwell's essays are unintentionally funny as shit.

>guys, we need to advance and take that machine gun nest
>"FUCK YOU FASCIST, YOU DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO"

He was thoroughly jaded by the time he finally died.

>>9836548
The last four states you stated. All of them but Rome were socialist. It being more than a millenia apart.
I'm saying that socialism is cancer, but you're saying, nah mate it's totalitarianism, as if there's a difference. The most powerful totalitarian states. in the 20th century, preached socialism.
As i said earlier, If I had to guess, which i did earlier, he gave up on his socialist fate with 1984. We can't actually know if he died a socialist.

>>9836605
>I'm saying that socialism is cancer, but you're saying, nah mate it's totalitarianism, as if there's a difference
You're saying that the systems of the USSR, Nazi Germany, Yugoslavia, North Korea, et al are the same, and are anywhere similar to Orwell's vision of socialism, which include
>Dissolution of class divisions and hierarchy
>Direct democracy
>Means of production owned by laborers
>Ending of profit
>Independent free thought
None of which occurred in any of those countries. They were totalitarian states under the thin guise of "lefitsm", when in reality they were societies that enforced the very things they claimed to be against. (well, Nazi Germany was explicitly for class divisions). They were all lead by totalitarian demagogues and suppressed democracy. How is any of that socialist again? Socialism isn't simply just a big daddy state, you autist.

>We can't actually know if he died a socialist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_and_the_Unicorn:_Socialism_and_the_English_Genius
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Thoughts_on_James_Burnham

If his late essays are any evidence, it seems like he was a socialist to the end.

>>9836662
>Dissolution of class divisions and hierarchy
>Direct democracy
>Means of production owned by laborers
>Ending of profit
>Independent free thought

How do you achieve this? Practically.

>Annihilate the middle class in Yugoslavia.
>DKRP, there's a hint of your direct democracy.
>Overtake the MOP from said middle class by the "workers" a.k.a. thieving murderers.
>Ending of profit. The one thing these hell holes were good at, except torture and death. The USSR and Yugoslavia crumbled precisely because of this.
>Independent free thougt, this? Really, did you run out of wishful thinking for your theory?

Why do all you socialist cunts preach your theory, and ignore the theory when it's applied practically in all the aforementioned states. What is the matter with you?
Orwell was a socialist, yes, he writes it down in Road to Wigan Pier and Homage to Catalonia, but I disagree that he was in the end in 1949 six months before his death. That's what I, personally, feel from reading 1984. Disagree all you want.
But you use the fact that he was a socialist as a nullification of any socialist criticism. Which is extensive.

>>9836235
>>9836316

I certainly feel that people miss the significance of newspeak in his moral argument. It works so much better through the lens of Politics and the English Language since you understand where he feels the real danger is.

Garbage.
War is in-fact peace. Freedom is in-fact slavery, Ignorance is in-fact strength.

One of the few books actually ruined by the people who have read it.

Im a Neocon and I enjoyed this book.

>>9838403
I just picked up the book for the totalitarian memes but the concept of newspeak really stood out for me, it's very scary and maybe even very actual.

>>9838458
Nah, it's actively ruined by the people who haven't read it, but know enough about it from pop culture to pretend they have, and thus talk about it.

Anytime anything in the news comes up about surveillance everyone always shouts "1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual" and call any government they disapprove of "Big Brother". But shockingly few people have actually read it, if you use the phrase "Big Brother" everyone gets you, but use "newspeak", "doublethink", "we've always been at war with [INSERT COUNTRY HERE]" and you'll get blank responses from people who were making 1984 comparisons a second earlier. I have an INGSOC t-shirt and to this day no one has ever commented on it, even a guy I was litterally talking about 1984 with whilst wearing it.

>>9838648
Sounds about right.

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>>9836235
Person that has read 1984 and understand it - already understands more about interior politics than 99% of people. Sorry to burst your contrarian bubble, but Orwell was 1. really fucking smart about politics 2. good fucking writer.

>>9836194
Honestly, I'm not very read about politics, history and stuff like that, but I'm not sure that he was only anti-stalinist. It is strongly implied in the plot that the current system differs highly from the both Hitler's regime and Stalin's regime and some other too.

Socialism is a genuine utopia imo, but it's not achievable, comunism was just a fake socialism. Stalinism was the last popular regime that failed, prehaps that's why Orwell spoke about it the most.

>>9836207
I have noticed that /lit/ has some strong prejudices about short books and books that are "easy reads".

Personally I haven't seen such a good plot, I thought I knew how it'll end, and it seemed confirmed at one point, but then the plot twist was disturbing.

>>9838662
Agreed. The reason why 1984 isn't banned is because most people are too stupid to learn abstract concepts so you can have the redpill in full sight and nobody will be threatened.

>>9838495
Newspeak is just ultra political correctness. No they're not illegal aliens, they're undocumented immigrants. They just forgot their documents don't deport!

speech should be censored for the sake of convenience since speech doesn't do much anyway who cares