Ernest Hemingway

>>9834807

Why did you think it sucks?

Another astounding take-down from the patricians of lit.

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>>9834807
>reads a book
>fixates after whether it was "good" or not

Not going to make it brah

>Who got the bottle?
The book, you're right OP the book is a bore, but I love Hemmingway give A farewell to arms a chance or The Old Mand ANd The Sea.

Well fuck all happens, the only time something remotely interesting happens he just breezes over it like it was nothing. Why couldn't he and that Brett girl be together? Why did he keep throwing his friends at a girl he loved ? Am I missing something here ?

>>9834833
Why do you think it doesn't suck ?

>>9834852
Impotence, voyeurism, alienation from connection, nature, etc.
H requires a lot of reading-between-the-lines. His characters are men not totally in touch with their feelings, so you don't get the effusive indirect discourse you would from James. You gotta plumb the depths, take into account what is not said, and analyze the 'flaws' of the characters if you want to get the most out of H. The scene where they put the steer in with the bulls...read that again. For me it's a key to unlocking the text

>>9834852
Holy shit he had his dick shot off in the war.

>>9834852
>why couldn't he and brett be together
You're not good enough at reading to read Hemingway. Sorry.

>>9834870
I will read that part again.

>>9834903
He is impotent he didn't get his dick shot off.

>>9834906
I don't understand what point, if any you are trying to make

>>9834923
>I don't understand what point, if any you are trying to make
quelle surprise lmao

>>9834929
Please show us how smart you are and explain the situation then, or keep pretending to be smug about something you also do not understand.

>>9834931
What is there to explain? Jake can't be with Brett because one of Brett's requisites for being in a relationship with someone is sex. She can't be in a relationship with Jake because he's impotent. It's very easy to grasp.

>>9834937
So why does he just keep throwing his friends at her ?

>>9834940
Because he wants her to be happy. When you love someone, you want them to be happy, even if that comes at the expense of your own happiness.

>>9834946
Doesn't make sense to me. Isn't Hemingway supposed to be masculine?

>>9834950
>doesn't make sense to me
Fall in love with a girl, then break up with her after a year. It leaves you with intense feelings of vulnerability. Part of the reason why Hemingway was such a masculine guy was because he actively tried not to be vulnerable.

>>9834807
Papa H has a lot of symbolism you need to grasp by reading between the lines and using the context. Its been awhile, but if It recall Brett and the bull fighter are paralleled. The bull fighting scenes are a metaphor for the whole book. The men are the bulls and some of the betas of the group (the main character more or less) are steers. Brett is taming them and stringing them all along throughout the book.

Brett also tarnishes the traditional honor of the young bull fighter by banging him, symbolizing something along the lines of the members of the lost generation having no values and shitting on traditions after the revelation brought on by the horrors of WW1 that nothing is sacred.

>>9834923
Did you miss the veiled references to his war injury? Put two and two together.

>>9835037

David Lynch is the living proof that reading deeper into an artists work to extract meaning and metaphors and subliminal bullshit, is in fact, horse shit. Anyone can make up their own interpretation of something means in anything, if they look deep enough into anything. It's a book about a guy that drinks a lot and goes to Spain to watch bull fights. That's it.

>>9835142
David Lynch is living proof that with technical genius you can create the illusion of depth. That doesn't mean, however, that there isn't "deeper meaning" in other books. It's just that Lynch pulls the curtain back on being SURE there is subterranean meaning. Freud said that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but that sure didn't stop him from believing in the unconscious. I think it's analogous.

>>9835037
>the main character more or less) are steers
What? How is Jake a "steer"? The only person explicitly given as a "steer", by Mike, was Cohn.

>"Oh, Jake," Brett said, "we could have had such a dammed good time together."
>"Yes." I said. "Isn't it pretty to think so?"
So if he could get it up, he'd be with her? What is the message of Brett's character?

>>9836714
Women are whores

>>9836698
My bad, it's been awhile since I read it. I think the jewish boxer they all hate on (Cohn right?) is the steer because the other guys, the bulls, are ganging up on him or whatever. Too lazy to look it up. I stand by my postwar/lost generation point. Pretty good book, the fishing chapter with his bro was cool. Brett sucks.

>>9836714
Brett has spent the whole book jerking them all along and pitying herself. Even when her fiance shows up, that degrades quickly. Shes pretty empty as a person and fills the void with short lived affairs and drama. Meanwhile, Jake has to watch all this, and she keeps saying how great he is. He loves her, but he cant be with her because hes impotent. Even if he could, he knows their relationship would end the same as all of her others.

My favorite book of all time
Hopefully You see there is a lot to it OP...it is a very emotional piece of writing and part of what amazes me when I read it each time is how much depth there can be... he writes that there is a pond but leaves the depth unwritten...whereas take an example like animal farm , meaning is easily gleaned and the "model" is readily available making it relatively rigid, the deeper levels to this novel are so loose and unsure that you can fill that pond with your own life and feels

>>9834807

Read it again in ten years. You're too immature intellectually and emotionally to understand it.

>>9836780
You don't need to write a book to state this.
>>9836805
But why is he in love with her despite her behaviour? Why do they all tolerate her? In the end, Jake comes to a realization in regards to Brett when she once again telegrams him for rescue, but that doesn't explain why it took so long for him to come to such realization, especially with all the constant affairs.

I mean, I grew up in a very liberal modern environment, where I heard how hard women have had it, and how hard they still do have it within even Western society. But Hemingway describes a very liberated woman who does whatever she wants whenever, and leeches off the company of the men around her - and he described this woman 100 years prior to now. It just seems awfully contrived that they all would tolerate her constant behaviour; and not just the main characters, but even the minor, like the Duke, who doesn't mind her company (and paying for it) despite her engagement and also close friends with Jake and everyone else. In the end, she decides to go back to Mike - but it's never explained why Mike would just take her back like that, after she had an affair with Cohn, and also ran off with the bullfighter.

"Curves like a racing yacht" - and so what, what's the big deal? I simply don't get it.