Pynchon

Mason & Dixon is his unsung masterpiece. /lit/ seems to be coming around to it finally, but it's been criminally overlooked.

Mason and Dixon, definitely. By far his best work.

>>9813644
>>9813646
I've heard good things. I actually considered checking it out before GR, but the period-style writing made me nervous

>>9813659
Just know that the prose was written with a modern reader in mind. You get used to it pretty quickly, and it ends up being one of the strongest aspects of the book.

>>9813721
Anyway, which one is recommended for next after M&D? The rest of them all seem to be pretty divisive.

>>9813637
Mason & Dixon > Gravity's Rainbow > V. > Against the Day > Inherent Vice > Bleeding Edge > Vineland > Crying of Lot 69

>>9813893

>>9813637
1.) M&D = GR
2.) V.
3.) Bleeding Edge
4.) Inherent Vice
5.) CoL49

I have yet to read ATD and Vineland.

>>9813637
AtD > GR > Inherent Vice > Crying of Lot 49 > M&D

I don't understand 4chan's love for Mason&Dixon. I can get the same amount of enjoyment out of 2 pages of AtD, while it takes 40 pages of M&D to find maybe a dozen passages I find entertaining. I really tend to think people on here just like M&D to appear more "intellectullulz"

>>9815546
>entertaining
>intellectullulz
>""
Really made me consider your opinion

I just finished COL49. I don't get it. So she wanted an adventure and then went kinda crazy?

>>9815657
Yeah you got it, the message, is don't go wanting adventures, kids! Or something about meaning and paranoia

I just got V. and CoL49. Read GR a bunch of times; M&D twice. Didn't realize V. was so popular. Why's it so good?

M&D > ATD >>>> GR >> V (debut) >>> BE = IV = TCOL49 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V (Vineland)

Mason & Dixon is unironically the great american novel
ATD is my personal favourite though, I have a soft spot for the turn of the century

>>9815686
Don't get the wrong idea, it's still rough, but has stand-out moments and is probably getting points for having been written as his first book and for the ways in which it leads to GR

>>9815686
its where he starts his habit of beautiful prose poems

I am the twentieth century. I am the ragtime and the tango; sans-serif, clean geometry. I am the virgin's-hair whip and the cunningly detailed shackles of decadent passion. I am every lonely railway station in every capital of Europe. I am the Street, the fanciless buildings of government. the cafe-dansant, the clockwork figure, the jazz saxophone, the tourist-lady's hairpiece, the fairy's rubber breasts, the travelling clock which always tells the wrong time and chimes in different keys. I am the dead palm tree, the Negro's dancing pumps, the dried fountain after tourist season. I am all the appurtenances of night.

I think a big factor is the order in which you've read his work. A review on amazon pointed out how the first time reading V was semi-entertaining the first read, but quickly became his favorite after 3 other re-reads.

>>9815782
That I can see. Didn't care much for M&D first time probably because I had read GR so many times

>>9815668
Wait really? Like, this book was about how we should just accept life as a bland series of burka ties and then cheat on our lovers?!

INherent 420

>>9813805
I might swap M&D with GR, Bleeding Edge with CoL49, and haven't read Against the Day yet, but this is roughly the truth

>>9813637
Tyrone... easy on the Kenosha

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>>9816027
>Reading Pynchon for the message

>>9816531
Then, what do I read for?

>>9816531
Plot, entertainment, prose. I really don't think his novels even have a message. How can you find one in all that mess?

>>9816639
This answer here was actually meant for this guy >>9816595

>>9813805
I'd move Against the Day above V., otherwise this is fucking spot on.

>>9816949
I feel if we were ranking on a purely entertainment basis Inherent Vice and ATD would be higher.

>>9816639
Fair. I'm used to reading then having some deeper meaning. Where should I goto now? I liked CL49, I just expected a conclusion.

>>9818019
any. whatever book sounds most interesting to you. I went to AtD after reading CoL49

All I've read is V. Am I ready for Gravity's Rainbow? If not, what next? (I know the chart says CoL49 next but seeing it consistently ranked so low and knowing he made it for some quick money makes it not interesting to me)

>>9818053
Lot 49 is still entertaining enough. Going in with low expectations, you wouldn't be disappointed. You don't need to read it before GR though.

People who don't rate Against the Day as his best haven't a clue. It's his best, followed, admittedly closely, by Mason & Dixon.

The Crying of Lot 49 gets a respectable third. Vineland is fourth, followed by Inherent Vice. V. next, and then Bleeding Edge at the bottom. One might argue V. is his worst, though.

I haven't read Gravity's Rainbow yet so I don't know, but I'm willing to bet it either surpasses Against the Day or is very close to it like Mason & Dixon. Go for either of the latter ones and you will not be disappointed.

>>9813637
In this order
>Mason & Dixon
>Gravity's Rainbow
>Against the Day
>V.
>Crying of Lot 49
>Inherent Vice
Haven't read Vineland or Bleeding Edge yet

Dang, why is Crying so low on everyone's list?

>>9818053
I suggest you to read TCoL49 right before GR to get in the mood. V. is much more "down-to-the-ground" and less trippy if compares to TCoL49, and reading the latter might help you to get into the style. It's a very entertaining novella and doesn't deserve all this hate

I'll rank what I've
>Gravity's Rainbow
>Inherent Vice
>V.
>power gap
>Lot 49
GR is so fucking good. Its "difficult" but it's not difficult in the way that something like Ulysses is difficult. If you just take your time it's very fun to read, and has a ton of great characters. A lesser writer could spend their entire carrier writing spin off novels of GR characters.
I don't know why IV gets a lot of shit, it's seems to me it's as well made as GR, just less ambitious. Great characters as well.
V. Is very good, but it's evident is some passages and characters that it's an early effort. Still very good though.
Lot 49 feels like a different writer trying to imitate GR Pynchon, but getting the important things wrong. A potboiler for sure. Not awful, but still not great.

>>9818206
It's good but it can't really compete with his heavier tomes

>>9818270
>thinks GR is difficult
M&D will destroy you

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>>9818275

That seems to be the consensus. It has some of my favorite P-jokes. It also hit me pretty hard the last time I read. It doesn't stack up to the tomes like GR, but I have trouble seeing how people rank Crying lower than IR or BE. There is an anger and an artistry that is in parts missing in the more recent books.

Granted, I haven't read ATD or M&D just yet.

What are your hopes for the next Pynchon novel?

>>9818280
What I was saying though is that it's not really difficult unless you just aren't thinking about it.
I think people who play up the difficulty were probably just reading it to say they did, and never got over the idea that it's some impossible beast.
Some chapters have a style that is halfway obtuse at worst. And figuring out how some things relate can be difficult, in the short term, with most becoming clear over time, or with thought.
It's difficult enough to be engaging, but not difficult on purpose enough to be annoying.

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>>9813637

>>9818359
that there will be one that he finishes before he keels over

>>9818111
/thread

My favorite is Inherent Vice, but for personal reasons. I'd probably rate them like this:

GR = M&D > AtD > Inherent Vice > V. > Bleeding Edge > TCoL49

>>9815782
I read V first, but after reading his other work it became clear V was not among his best.

>>9818359
>>9818603
The next Pynchon novel, (working) title The Circuit, follows Dusty Biggins, an employee of a private military contractor in postwar Iraq. The novel is largely about the privatization of military affair and the consequential mercenary markets cropping up in the Middle East.

Pynchon began working on this novel before Bleeding Edge. It's purported to be a doorstopper.

>>9818206
It's probably his worst novel, honestly, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It gets a lot of hype because it's the only one most people around here have actually read, since it's short and much easier than his masterpieces.

Best Pynchon novel if you just want to experience wacky stories?

>>9815546
The fuck is wrong with you? M&D is a lot of fun.

Best work of his if you don't claim to be an erudite edgelord?

>>9815546
>just like M&D to appear more "intellectullulz"
But it's easily one of Pynchon's most accessible and immediately rewarding doorstoppers

>>9820218
Assuming you mean to ask which one a retard might still enjoy, Inherent Vice.

>>9820218
Stop falling for /lit/ memes and realize you're talking about the guy who writes vulgar limericks with engineering puns.

>>9815546
The best part of my day is reading comments from people who assume that just because they couldn't understand something others must be pretending to like it to seem smart. No friend, you're just an idiot. It's an incredible book. Against the Day is fucking amazing too.

>>9813637
to an author that can actually tell a story

>>9820267
The reason I love Pynchon is that he can do that and then 20 pages later have me bawling. The wackiness is such a small part of what he can do, but it's the part that any dumbass can understand and point to to prove they've read him. You might want to go back and reread him.

GR > V > Mason and Dixon > Lot 49 > Against The Day > Vineland > Inherent Vice > Bleeding Edge

>>9813637
GR and then realize pynchon sucks and his stories are shit and excuse yourself from post-modern books forever.

>>9820341
pynchon's not even that "postmodern" though

>>9820278
Not everyone is looking for a story to read.

>>9820372
why then are you reading a fictional story?

>>9820381
Are you unironically defending reading for the plot and nothing else?

>>9820571
You might as well masturbate to porn, it's healthier for you
what good is useless psuedo-intelligence that's essentially just a form of hedonism

>>9818469
It always makes me laugh that a picture of DFW is randomly thrown in there

>>9820811
me too, but what i don't get is the upside down image of a badger in the corner

Pynchons my fav writer for sure because my fav thing in books is goofs, gags, jokes and rambunctious behavior, and his books are full to the brim of it. Every novel is like one of those novelty snake cans, you open the book & POP you get a face fulla snakes and you fall back cackling. The mad mind, the crack genius, to do it! and then you think hmmm whats he gonna do next, this trickster, and you pick the book back up and BZZZZZZZZZZ you get a shock and Hahahahahah you've been pranked again by the old pynchmeister, that card. "Did that Pynch?" he says, laughing yukyukyukyuk. Watch him as he shoves a pair of plastic buck teeth right up into his mouth and displays em for you- left, right, center- "you like dese? Do i look handsome???" Pulls out a mirror. "Ah!" Hand to naughty mouth. And you're on your ass again laughing as he snaps his suspenders, exits stage right, and appears again hauling a huge golden gong.

Read and enjoyed 49. Skimmed through all his other work and the only ones that look worth reading are GR and ATD (also maybe IV)

>>9820113
I beg to differ. Maybe after 400 pages when they reach america, but it's not worth the time investment.

>>9823032
Why don't you go beg for some good taste instead

>>9821452
that's Torquato Tasso. look through the /lit/ archives for it sometime, hell. Just read this. Read the whole thread, actually. Fucking great shit.

>>9824305
the book is shit, get over it.

>>9824711
We get it, you're not intelligent. Stop trying to make it more obvious and just go back.

>>9813637
Reading Gravity's Rainbow at the moment. I can see why many people don't consider it his best. Perhaps I was expecting something else. I don't know how to place it, but I'm not enjoying it. A shame, really. I hope it gets better somehow. Is there ever a shift, or am I to go sifting through waiting for a brief glimmer of enjoyment, something that can actually grip you? It seems like they are few and far between, almost as though pynchon's entertaining sections are poisson points along a sea of dullness. The prick. Has anyone enjoyed this work? If so, may I ask why?

>>9825298
What part are you reading, anon?

>>9825311
just hit part 2.

>>9825314
Part 2 is much less frammentary than part 1. You begin to grasp what the fuck is going on. I'm 50-ish pages into part 3, and I'm loving it. I have to admit some parts may result boring, but overall my expectations were repayed

>>9825330
so far it feels like a ww2 erotically paranoid x-men development with a smattering of drug-induced "just good enough to be noted" prose. the only points i enjoyed myself were during the brave doggo's escape (though balanced later with an equally unlucky doggo), and the utterly hilarious candy drill. oh, and of course the banana breakfast. otherwise, it reminds me of V., which admittedly i left unfinished; moments of true fun interspersed with an oxymoronic foggy exactness that boils your brains out almost monotonously. I wonder if you're at the climax of the trajectory?

>>9825330
Also, I don't remember where is the part where they give Slothrop strange-flavoured candies but that had me laughing out loud

>>9825351
I don't think I will be able to recognize the climax even while I'm reading it, I surely have to re-read it. They say plot structure has the shape of a parable. So far, I haven't noticed that

>>9825351
> moments of true fun interspersed with an oxymoronic foggy exactness that boils your brains out almost monotonously
That's the style of the Pynch, however, and there's nothing we can do about it. I suggest you to at least try to finish GR. If you aren't enjoying it, you don't really have to read it

>>9825351
> ww2 erotically paranoid x-men development with a smattering of drug-induced
If I had to describe Gravity's Rainbow (and may God have mercy of my soul if I had to do it), I would say it's "The Man Who Stares at Goats" having a very bad trip on high doses

>>9825379
i know, but i would be disappointed. i feel more like there's something to enjoy that i'm missing out on rather than wanting to be a part of an exclusive club. I plan on finishing it. no moments are intolerable, it has been tempting to skim, some moments seem like jazz, and i doubt they're connected to a reward.
>>9825359
it's around 120 pages in, 114 is the section upon checking, in the penguin blueprint edition.

V>IV>III>II>I

>>9825830
Yeah yeah we get it you're clever but Gravity's Rainbow is actually VII

>>9813637
Mason & Dixon (go to this after GR)
Gravity's Rainbow
V
The Crying of Lot 49
Vineland
Against the Day
Inherent Vice
Bleeding Edge

ATD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>IV>COL49>>>GR>>>>>M&D

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further into it now, glad i've stuck with it, read about a hundred pages last night, i keep getting this looney tunes vibe from pynchon, some kind of fifties cartoon film with rape and shit eating, i fell asleep imagining pynchon riding on a beverly hillbilly's auto, honking his horn *AWOOOOGA* and misfiring, clacking his way towards me, telling me to hop aboard as he drives through America's carnival through the eyes of a movie lens.
It was an odd feeling to think of the fecal feast in black and white cartoon animation

Currently reading ATD and it feels in places like a retrospective, tying together the themes of all his previous novels at that point. I'm not sure where else he can go other than more lighter pieces in the same vein IV or BE, but we shall see. Either way, you should definitely leave ATD until after V, CoL49, GR and M&D

>>9828615
is it good? is it a little more consistently entertaining than say GR or V?

>>9828642
Yeah it's his best book imo. You can read it directly after either IV or V or Lot49. It's tons more fun than M&D, unless ye olde english is your jam.

>>9829056
>M&D
>ye olde english
Yeah okay

Lot 49 > V > Gravity's Rainbow

>>9828642
For me, it's his best work, way better than GR.

>>9816519
Pynchon, easy pn your obsession for zoots

>>9825370
Its is a parable. Everything is appening at the center, wile beginning and end are out of focus

>>9825370
>>9831008

Parabola, yeah?

>>9831010
Ha ragione, signor terrone, parabola!

>>9831010
Stacca, stacca, un urlo si avvicina attraversando il cielo!

>>9831073
Pynchon in Italiano è il miglior pynchon

>>9831008
That's what I was sensing. Also expecting a catastrophic deconstruction at the end, a la explosion. Something unintelligible. The horizon is a straight line, Against the Day, Mason Dixon line self explanatory, Gravity's Rainbow, yet another line, and V. what a surprise, two lines.

>Only the framing material," Lucas demurely, "obvious influences, Neo-Tokyo from Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Metal Gear Solid by Hideo Kojima, or as he's known in my crib, God.

Woah, so this is the writer /lit/ hypes as some genius

>>9832267
the man has good taste. MGS4 was a tour de force in gameplay and nonsense plot.

>>9818019
I find Pynchon's work to be very profound but he always avoids a single clear message.

>>9825314
The first part is easily the worst and least entertaining part. Stick with it, it only gets better from there.

>>9832260
Your expectations are correct.

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>>9832358
that's a relief and what i'm finding as i work my way through. gonna enjoy a Whopper and fries, and dive back in.
Trying not to gnash my teeth at the USPS tracking page that said a book was to come today.

>>9832260
You must have spotted that nautical expression about lines in all these books

>>9832715
is there one? i haven't noticed it. i was just making an assumption really. i've only read part of V. and am currently reading GR.

>>9832728
"single up the lines" or variations of it, which sounds deliberate enough

>>9832735
yeah i was just looking that up. i guess it makes sense, since he was in the navy. bleeding edge is another line i forgot.

No hallowed skein of stars can ward, I trow / Who's once been set his tryst with Trystero

Is Bleeding Edge underrated?

>>9832903
Not at all. Maybe some future generation will love it for being a spot on period piece but our generation can't deal with some old guy writing about furbies and Metal Gear Solid

>>9833024
I'm sure those referential segments are negligible and you guys are blowing them way out of proportion.

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>>9813637
Pynchon is a meme.

>>9813805
>>9813646
>>9815546
>>9815693
>>9818119
This is how you can tell that this board's population has been replaced by redditors

>>9833121
They are negligible. But it's true that the book will be far more interesting to readers who will view the birth of the internet as a historical/mythical event. It might be Pynchon's best-known novel in a century.

I want to like Pinecone but TCoL49 was literal garbage. Like "why was this even published" tier garbage.

>>9832903
Its Ready Player One for precocious autists.

>>9833764
Pynchon agrees with you. Pick a different book

hey dudettes, I read TCoL49 and it was a bit hard but I really liked it. in what order should I read his other books?

I thought reading V. next would be a good idea, I just have a problem in choosing between GR and M&D after V., since English is not my mother's tongue and I'm streaming towards the one that I'll understand better.

>>9815702
So he strings together a bunch of pleasant sounding words (and don't get me wrong, it's an enjoyable little paragraph) but they don't mean anything.

>>9834786
It's usually best to start with V. and TCoL49 if you're serious, but you could also pick up BE and IV at any point and you would likely be fine.

M&D is easier to understand, being a linear story, but it's written in 18th century English so you may (or may not?) have a high learning curve early in the book if English is your second language.

GR is convoluted to native speakers for a variety of reasons. I say read V. (and maybe Pynchon lite) and see how you feel after that. If V. went well, maybe GR will be fine. Or you could try reading the first chapter of M&D to feel how it will be.

>>9836000
I read V. after GR and found it harder desu

>>9836266
V and GR are both readable compared to M&D

>>9836266
>>9836858
Well, maybe I'm fucked in the head then.

The MIDDLE of GR is very readable, at least. But I think the prose at the apex of GR's trajectory is comparable to V, while the endpoints are much more difficult.

I'm reading M&D right now, ~60% of the way through and I've had no troubles.