Why exactly does /lit/ hate him again?

heh

Too many damn footnotes and I feel uneasy about some of his political views

>>9813598
I like him, but Infinite Jest is a deliberately irritating and abrasive text, which also seems to be trying to befriend you, and the confusion that causes makes reading it more unpleasant than a 2deep4u PoMo tome that clearly hates the reader and wants them to be miserable

That and the fact that his writing style isnt that great but for some reason is frustratingly infectious and that for a couple of months/years after reading his work for the first time you find yourself saying things unconciously writing things using his narrative voice and commenting on the "like seriously hypophalangically brachiform ornamental thing on the side of the bldg." which isn't ideal if you want to be an original voice

Kind of the same with Pynchon but not nearly as bad

>>9813598
We discussed him for 8 straight years, I am glad that he is falling away from our affection

>>9813645
>clearly hates the reader and wants them to be miserable
I really don't understand this view at all... Don Gately's arc, especially in contrast with Hal's, is clearly redemptive and empowering.

>>9813620
What were his views (while he was alive*)

*That is to say before he died°

°he killed himself

>>9813645
>I like him, but Infinite Jest is a deliberately irritating and abrasive text, which also seems to be trying to befriend you, and the confusion that causes makes reading it more unpleasant than a 2deep4u PoMo tome that clearly hates the reader and wants them to be miserable
Crowned with a suicide after being off his anti-depression pills.

>>9813662
The whole sincerity thing. It really gave me the shivers, who would have known what he would do if he put those ideas into practice? I'm glad we haven''t found out and hope we never will

>>9813726
what the fuck are you talking about

>>9813736
I'm talking of his views on irony. You might think they weren't that extreme but the guy gives me the vibes when he discusses it

>>9813598
Popularity and newfags trying to 'fit in' by mimicking vocal contrarian minorities

>>9813736
>>9813758
Enough about it, but let me say this: the way I view it, behind the bandana there's something sinister. I think he constrained himself when talking about irony and new sincerity. But that's just how I see it and I could be wrong of course.

>>9813797
I agree, and I think its exactly why he killed himself

>>9813797
What would his views taken to the extreme look like?

File: Benito_Mussolini_colored.jpg (179KB, 742x1100px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 742x1100px

>>9813815

>>9813818
>Dude you forgot to take off your watch

>>9813818
I am now entirely convinced you have never read any DFW. Well baited anon

>>9813824
I am now entirely convinced you're a reddit immigrant. Christ how can you be this blind to subtext

>>9813598
We are Bret Easton Ellis boys and DFW is a pseud

>>9813829
>the plot revolves around the dissemination of lethal media, a clear allegory to the dehumanizing and conforming effects of totalizing society, manifested in pop-culture schlock that serves only to separate man from self and free will
Yeah that seems like an argument for fascism you fucking retard

>>9813847
Real fascism has never been tried.

>>9813818
Oh come on. He implied in an interview (https://youtu.be/YTLmg1JqyYs) that he didn't like fascism. I don't really care for his anti fascist views though.
>nihilism will turn people in to fascists because they just don't care xD
Nihilism and cynicism has turned people in to modern liberals.
>inb4 it's the same thing
Fascism is its own idealogy, it is not synonymous with totalitarianism. I like DFW though. Infinite Jest is a great book with tons of good ideas in it. I just don't think that his views are fascist, nor that nihilism will turn people in to fascists.

>>9813847
Thats literally a description of Jewish media

>>9813856
>He implied in an interview that he didn't like fascism

What are you a fucking idiot, he has a career to look after, do you think he'd scream 1488?

>>9813862
I sincerely doubt DFWs criticisms came from a place of anti-semitism

>>9813871
You can't go more sincere than anti-semitism as a Christian.

>>9813871
I'd call it proto-antisemitism, he only had to make the last connection

Because Bloom told us to

File: Wasnt_Me.png (45KB, 527x444px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 527x444px

>>9813824
That was not me, see image. Though I do think at times that Foster Wallace might have been willing to accomplish his goal of New Sincerity by questionable means.
Just watch when he talks about irony (look for his body language) or the way he writes about it (what types of words he uses and so forth).

Anyway enough of this, most of /lit/ doesn't hate him and neither do I, but he does give me the vibes like I said.

File: Anti-Rebels.jpg (314KB, 1336x1222px) Image search: [Google]

314KB, 1336x1222px

>>9813856
>“The next real literary “rebels” in this country might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels, born oglers who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles. Who treat of plain old untrendy human troubles and emotions in U.S. life with reverence and conviction. Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue. These anti-rebels would be outdated, of course, before they even started. Dead on the page. Too sincere. Clearly repressed. Backward, quaint, naive, anachronistic. Maybe that’ll be the point. Maybe that’s why they’ll be the next real rebels. Real rebels, as far as I can see, risk disapproval. The old postmodern insurgents risked the gasp and squeal: shock, disgust, outrage, censorship, accusations of socialism, anarchism, nihilism. Today’s risks are different. The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the “Oh how banal.” To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness. Of willingness to be suckered by a world of lurkers and starers who fear gaze and ridicule above imprisonment without law. Who knows. ”

I have nothing against him, his fans are just uber plebs who never branch out from Infinite Jest.

>>9813886
Nice inspect-element, faggot.

>>9813818
I've never read dfw, but as a stirner-loving ironic fascist I hope you're right. Will have to get into bandana man soon

>>9813870
I should've phrased it better. I meant that he directly opposed fascism, but he didn't say it directly. Thus why I said "he implied". My apologies.

>>9813891
I don't know man. I find it hard to believe that we are the first generation to be afraid of expressing our seemingly soft or melodramatic views.

>>9813996
When the fuck did he imply that? Go suck a dick

>>9813896
Really? I find it a lot more common for somebody to have read a lot of his essays but never have really given IJ much of a go.

>>9814010
He said "The main guy at the academy is a fascist." and then a bit later he say something like "nihilism in our society will make it so that people will be drawn in by fascism because they just don't care". He didn't say it like it was a good thing. Watch the whole thing before telling me to suck le penis.

>>9813891
He is right about this, but you've framed it in the wrong dichotomy. The people who are wholly sincere are those who we laugh at, all those who cried about Trump being elected, are perpetually pissed off about the right-wing, all those people complaining about being harassed in youtube comment sections. They're sincere and emotional and dislike so called "chan culture" because it prizes irony over sincerity, because it mocks emotionality. People on 4chan see them as part of the system, deeply embedded in the liberal media, liberal academia, etc., and so the '4channers' mock them and view them as childish.

>>9813598
/lit/ could not shut the fuck about about davie w since its inception. then the movie came out and the normies liked it so in typical contrarian style they fell out of love with him

>>9814560
Its not a question of choosing between them, its really two sides of the same coin.
And for that matter. Good. Fuck "sincerity", we're ironic because we don't believe honest emotion is that easy to find

>>9814631
>/lit/ could not shut the fuck about about davie w since its inception.

Yeah and most of those posts were talking about how shit he is. Don't pretend they were thread after thread of love and posies thrown for him

>>9814645
nah

>>9813661

It would be, maybe, if DFW wasn't so insipidly patronizing of the guy.

>>9813797
His views on irony are probably the most important and relevant ideas today

i can't think of anything more worthy of discussion and attention

also you sound like dialogue

>>9813598
Harold Bloom told us to.

File: grocery.png (93KB, 1004x373px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 1004x373px

>>9813598
waterposting destroyed DFW. he will never recover

>>9813598
/lit/ doesn't hate him, he's just very memeable.

I will never not laugh at the greatly deserved ridicule of this hack fraud. Why bother reading someone who couldn't even live with himself? The only sincere moment in the life of David Foster Wallace was when he kicked away the chair. The rest of his life was a lie, the New "Sincerity" was a joke whose punchline was the creaking of a leather belt around the rafter.

His literary career was a menagerie of self help lies told to keep his depression at bay - the audience pussy and drugs were the ghosts at that feast of hypocrisy. The depression was warranted because behind all the gimmicks and the self awareness and the bandannas was no discernible talent.

File: 1465982340071.jpg (700KB, 1053x1070px) Image search: [Google]

700KB, 1053x1070px

>>9817478
This is a stupid opinion. You should feel stupid for having this opinion.

Ernest Hemingway shot himself with a shotgun. What does that say about his writing not a damn thing.

>>9817525
Ernest Hemmmmmingway was an effete coward and a mediocre writer. But I suppose if I saved anime pics on my computer I too would feel more inclined to idolize people who were at least brave enough to kill themselves

>>9817525
>>9817539
BTFO

>>9817478
>>9817539
Are you one of those guys that likes to scream a lot and call others betas?

>>9817478
Such a great pasta

File: deleuze.jpg (19KB, 500x386px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 500x386px

>>9817539
Fucking destroyed him

>>9816873
>most important and relevant ideas today
Jesus.

>>9817675
Yes but only in my head as internal dialogue. I'm too afraid to confront people.

>>9814637
Irony is an intellectual filter. At some point, I do believe irony can be extended too far, and that some level of sentimental integration wouldn't hurt, but this again is a methodological practice. The primacy of science, neuroscience, in particular, lingers in us and establishes this sentimental threshold. It is no longer that by truly expressing one also truly verifies, the parallel of experience and validity has been unmasked as false. This establishes a cautious approach to sincerity. The weary laugh at those who partake in complete sincerity, the same way man may laugh at the primitiveness of an animal. There is no essence to recapture, a sincerity to long for, instead, we experiment, test, and refine the ways in which we express ourselves; Irony is just one stage in the history of self-expression, one paradigm-shift with many to come.

>>9817837
I mean to say emotional experience and validity the fourth sentence*

>>9817837
The thing is about 4chan above any other forum though is that the line between irony and sincerity is usually incredibly blurred. Like what is to be said for the average anti-semitic conspiracy posted in a thread. I don't think the writers of these, even to themselves can often be described as either ironic or sincere. While an extreme example I think a lot of expressions in life are like this and its the biggest problem I have with DFW's hope for a "New Sincerity" we have no complete knowledge of ourselves and we learn our feelings through our expressions not simply share them with others.
To be sincere is often only discovered in hindsight and one can often discover such a sincerity through a very attempt at being ironic.

>welcome to the water XD

>>9813797
I think it was that he didn't actually have much hope about it, really. He was pretending to be a hopeful guide, but really he was a cynic through and through.

>>9813856
>modern liberals
You mean fascists?

>>9813891
This comment to me seems more to suggest artists like Rupi Kaur or Mira Gonzalez rather than people like Trump supporters.

>>9814637
Honest emotion is incredibly easy to find. It is mostly banal shit, though. Irony is an easy route for embellishment, for getting the brain to exercise a little bit: it gives an extra layer of indirection for folks to fill in the gaps with their own thoughts and analysis. Irony also functions as a coping mechanism for dealing with a really challenging world that can be too much to confront directly day in and day out.

S
A
M
E

fucking post every week, argh

File: Bitch.png (257KB, 526x573px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 526x573px

>>9817539
I don't admire either guy. But being suicidal has nothing to do with writing ability. Your stupid opinion continues to be stupid and you have yet to fix this.

>>9813598
Is it fair to say that DFW actually hits on some good points outside of his writing?