Rene Girard.

File: Girard.jpg (75KB, 481x320px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 481x320px

depends on whether or not you like literature, aesthetics, ethics, politics, philosophical anthropology, the history of religion, holy terror, violence, mass hysteria, eschatology, clauswitz, Great Books, memes, prophecy, psychology, god, sex, death, art and metaphysics

if that kind of stuff blows your hair back i'd say go for it

Nope. What's his stuff like?

Looks like the Shah of Iran.

The Girard Reader is a nice overview of this voluminous writer.

File: bada-bings hidden &c.jpg (9KB, 225x300px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 225x300px

>>9813045

>>9813018
Religious anthropology from a relatively traditionalist Catholic perspective, with many references to literature.

Unfortunately American academia favored other French philosophers from the second half of the twentieth century to fuel its rhetoric.

Yes. I'm a great faggot for Girard and I really think he could be more appreciated around here. He's up there with Bloom on the pantheon of the best literary critics.

>>9813100
This.

>>9812958
Yes, absolutely. Start with I See Satan Fall Like Lightning or Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World, or To Double Business Bound.

He has thoroughly btfo'd post-modernism (way better than Peterson's crap) and proves Hamlet is a Catholic play.

>>9813404

How does Girard solve the problem of 'infinite' regress? If desire is mimetic, who was it that desired the first object that touched off the desire in another?

>>9813061
my sides at that filename lmao

File: 8-electromagnetism.jpg (228KB, 1500x1500px) Image search: [Google]

228KB, 1500x1500px

>>9813523
see Oughourlian, The Mimetic Brain & others for more details. JO does interesting readings of Genesis and others to work this out. he's also a clinical psychologist who applies girardian theory in his work. his books are full of case studies. so you can read biblical literature as text to work this out, but beyond a certain horizon of course it's also worth looking into fields beyond this.

see also lacan - and hegel, and heidegger - for much more on desire/i is an other/socially constructed nature of all desires. much more.
>or just peter thiel

but in the meantime, ask yourself this also: how *firsty* do you need your first principles to be? maybe we're all just catching up with quantum physics. interesting also imho how the more *civilized* and *less fucked up* people are the more, potentially, they might be able to spend time in laboratories...kind of a good look to ease up on the scapegoating and maybe find out what we can learn about our own mimetic processes
>and also this will allow our marketing departments to make only better chicken sandwich ads & vidya designers to make better vidya &c &c &c

>>9813597
>Phil Leotardo: We're friends of your son, from Alcoholics Anonymous.
>Joanne Moltisanti: What's your name?
>Phil Leotardo: We're anonymous.

sopranos is so fucking good.

File: 12THIELJP2-master675.jpg (75KB, 675x450px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 675x450px

Can we talk about the girardian lobby group?

>>9814086
Mind elaborating?

File: quote-every-moment-in-business-happens-only-once-the-next-bill-gates-will-not-build-an-operating-peter-thiel-72-8-0826.jpg (80KB, 850x400px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 850x400px

>>9814086
i'd be delighted tbqh

it's not like you get an IRL Golden Path-tier meme-seer like peter thiel every day.
>

parse what he means by this sentence and tell me continental philosophy isn't the most balls-out amazing thing ever invented. tell me it isn't crazy as fucking batshit to be alive in this day and age. when people can know things like this.

structure of business revolutions > structure of scientific revolutions? it's all pretty much wrapped up together now in the technocommercial vortex of Fun.

https://www.inc.com/jeff-bercovici/peter-thiel-young-blood.html
>if there's one thing that really excites Thiel, it's the prospect of having younger people's blood transfused into his own veins
>tfw ywn share a parabiotic transfusion in the secret laboratories under palantir HQ w/basically howard hughes 2.0 while discussing rene girard's theory of mimetic desire
>y even live

File: Ric_Flair_bio.jpg (49KB, 900x506px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 900x506px

>>9813653
>>9813523

soooo uhh. given that anthropology and evolutionary psychology exist, wouldn't the first coveting be hidden somewhere millions of years ago? it's rather like a sorites paradox, when does a haystack stop being a haystack. at what point in evolution did man or man-like creatures first fight over resources? and when did the first outlaw premeditate stealing from the righteous? e.g. looking for the non-mythical cain and abel. even eagles steal fish from lesser birds. why are eusocial animals like ants or bees so much better than us.

>>9814171
and is the coveting more important? is the knowledge that one is covetous the singular fact? doesn't have to be I, could be the judgment of another. in other words its tied to sapience.

File: jackbunny.gif (1MB, 320x232px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 320x232px

>>9814183
yes yes. the ability to recognize in a mirror. the ability to imagine an alternate reality where i hold all the bananas. apes or chimps somewhere.

File: network-2.jpg (16KB, 702x407px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 702x407px

>>9814171
loving the professional wrestling references. professional wrestling is rarely not awesome

>given that anthropology and evolutionary psychology exist, wouldn't the first coveting be hidden somewhere millions of years ago
checks out. quantum physics did nothing wrong

>it's rather like a sorites paradox
plz explain

>when does a haystack stop being a haystack. at what point in evolution did man or man-like creatures first fight over resources

Network: The World is a Business
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9XeyBd_IuA

>and when did the first outlaw premeditate stealing from the righteous?
ask judge holden

>why are eusocial animals like ants or bees so much better than us
dat oedipus

>>9814183
>and is the coveting more important?
dat hegelian lord-and-bondsman
dat inauguration of two centuries of gnostic marxism wholly propping up the structure of modern academic humanities

>doesn't have to be I, could be the judgment of another
reckon it is

>in other words its tied to sapience
it's why RG was a cool guy. let's try and rein in the whole bloodthirsty death-driven ape thing. let's try something different

File: 1200px-Narcissus-Caravaggio_(1594-96)_edited.jpg (371KB, 1200x1453px) Image search: [Google]

371KB, 1200x1453px

>>9814195
The myth of Narcissus is the answer. You don't want your shit, you want the other guy (in the reflection)'s shit.

File: landschneckt.jpg (3KB, 105x153px) Image search: [Google]

3KB, 105x153px

>>9814211
>plz explain
c/p from wikipedia because lazy:

>The sorites paradox is a paradox that arises from vague predicates.[2] A typical formulation involves a heap of sand, from which grains are individually removed. Under the assumption that removing a single grain does not turn a heap into a non-heap, the paradox is to consider what happens when the process is repeated enough times: is a single remaining grain still a heap? If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-heap?

My analogy is at what point down the evolutionary tree does mimetic desire disappear from humans, in response to:

>ask yourself this also: how *firsty* do you need your first principles to be?

Original sin is the first recorded afaik. Snake says hey babe that's a good lookin' apple god says don't do it eve says why not i want this thing now it's been hyped.

But when was the first biological symptom of this behavior. it goes back millions.

>>9812958
If you're intelligent, no.

If you're the type of person who posts these threads on /lit/, then yes.

Dutch Wiki claims his ideas are supported by new findings, I was reminded by that by this topic so will be looking at the citations. I doubt it

File: enjoy-capitalism-130.jpg (325KB, 1920x1200px) Image search: [Google]

325KB, 1920x1200px

>>9814251
>sorites paradox
TIL. fucking excellent. cheers for a cool new concept my man

>Original sin is the first recorded afaik. Snake says hey babe that's a good lookin' apple god says don't do it eve says why not i want this thing now it's been hyped.
right. which is why literary critics - or j-pete - will look into this for kind of signs or indications of metacognitive process. not a crazy thing to do.

personally? it's just an attractive/repulsive universe. in all kinds of ways.

>But when was the first biological symptom of this behavior. it goes back millions.
more than that, i'd say. bacterium. and before that.

girardian stuff isn't supposed to be gospel itself. just a very handy heuristic, i think. memes & mimetic desire for culture, metaphysics & difference for that in which culture exists and is continually re-inventing.

>at what point down the evolutionary tree does mimetic desire disappear from humans
pic rel. it doesn't

>unless humans evolve to a post-capitalistic sensibility
>what did he mean by this
>honestly i have no idea. but this is where we're at for now, on planet meme

>>9814171
I mentioned that paradox in the RP1 thread a few days ago. Thank you for raising awareness of such a special paradox.

Came here just to read girardfag posts.

How does Girard compare to Eliade?

File: 41YHGjcAh3L.jpg (24KB, 332x500px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 332x500px

>>9815771
*blush*
well, Moar is usually on tap. anything you want to talk about?
>be bartender
>wipes glass w/rag
>spits in glass
>realizes this is disgusting
>gets other glass

i'm supposed to be re-reading xunzi for Muh Battered Psyche & b/c a very wise anon has made a good case for it. but between solomon's book on hegel and pic rel it's an embarrassment of riches. somehow i'm sure it will all fit together.
>plus i wanna to play alpha centauri again & wreck some fools with the chairman
>and perhaps also pine for an accelerationist remake of autoduel or interstate 76
>&c

File: urbanomic.png (324KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

324KB, 400x400px

>>9815821
i haven't read eliade's stuff but it's on deck b/c of the peterson reading list. from what i gather eliade's work is more impartial. with girard scapegoat theory and christianity are usually in the foreground, but it's never in a way that makes him an unfairly biased observer. it's just that he is expounding his own mega-thesis and he sees the connections to that mega-thesis everywhere.

history of religion is the coolest fucking thing in the world. i used to think that it was just the ultimate meme thing to study in uni, effectively basket-weaving. not so much anymore. you've got the axial age, transpersonal psych, jung, bataille, girard, loads of other guys...hnng.

having digested the landpill thoroughly i'm more into just going back to deleuze now rather than going into the further reaches of Outer Darkness w/ some of those guys. they're opening up cool stuff on the fringes, and guys like sc hickman are always doing cool stuff too - but it's more like inspiration for fiction or just other paranoid Fun than anything i would want to do academically i think.

esp when lacan & psychoanalysis &c have other things that are arguably making the world a happier, sexier, friendlier place than otherwise.

>tfw too much books to read and miss girardfag threads.

File: tumblr_inline_n9skat0o2X1qzgziy.jpg (122KB, 500x618px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 500x618px

>>9816045
the girardfag is profoundly grateful to the /lit/ mimetosphere for having allowed him to come here and shake his mimetic hyperstitial sillies out. he genuinely is. otherwise this stuff would have caused his cheese to slip even further off his cracker than it already has.

there are indeed too many books to read. but really it's just about reading the right ones. the ones that give you the answers you're looking for. and they're really there, i believe. that's the craziest thing about it. just when you think you are truly out there in terra incognita, some god-tier writer will give you exactly the sentence, or the idea, or the concept, to un-wind whatever it is that has you wound up. then you gotta integrate. and expound. and *talk about all that shit* until it makes sense. and around and around it goes.

smelters. thought-smelters. w/all that that entails. slag, by-product, people scorched alive, catastrophic meltdowns, all of it. good times! and all of it to produce some fine silver rings that someday somebody can use to hang their curtain rods with.

it's a feels > reals world. so, saith girardfag, you have to keep reading shit until you can articulate how the feels work. because once you can do that, and it *sounds about right* then you can realize you're actually not fucking crazy, because some *other* anon had that same thought you did. and then
>and then

this only to say:
/lit/ mimetosphere: all glory to

>>9816238
You still up and watching threads dude?

What did Girard think about Islam?

File: God-Emperor.jpg (296KB, 1115x1386px) Image search: [Google]

296KB, 1115x1386px

>>9816654
had to sleep. as of next month /lit/ time should also be much more limited than it is now. i'll probably cheat on that. this place is too great tho.

>>9817221
iirc he doesn't talk about it all that much. the thing that comes to my mind here is, first of all, that the current political situation v/islam has all been thoroughly mapped out in BttE. it's a really interesting question tho.

commence ramble:

the current deaht spiral of red team/blue team/team islam, combined with trump + migrant crisis, is what got me interested in politics, really for the first time. it arguably produced the girardfag. we are now carefully and methodically withdrawing ourselves from those politics b/c that shit is all the matrix.

but here's something *else* to think about. tho. so ofc the idea of a Matrix is this totalizing idea: the redpill signifies Wokefulness, but at the same time, it also signifies the essence of ideology. even zizek knows there is no full escape from this.

how about this then: *we need a new matrix.* a new way of looking at things. *this* illusion we are presently stuck in *is no longer working.* this one is the neoliberal mainframe. baby-boomer built to perfection. and *failing.* nick land found all those structural flaws in it. the matrix has become Capital and Capital has become the matrix. peterson is also seeing it. from a different view.

a great and crumbling, collapsing machine. predicated on the i. what would be interesting to think, perhaps, is a new model matrix.

because *I is an Other,* yes, but - does this warrant the default move back to cynicism? seems recursive to me. so aristotle would be a good look, for instance; or alastair macintyre; or girard; or any number of others. getting beyond postmodern memery - Capital uber alles - is the present stuff.

something like advancing the plot, by however many nanometers, would be a good look. not marx-style or hitler-style. raise consciousness, drop mimetic fuckery.

so idk about girard, but acquiring some sense of the profoundly similar processes at work in most great wisdom traditions & axial psychologies - including psychoanalysis - is an interesting start. Capital a *problem.* but also i think the ground floor & starting point. for homo mimeticus to be something other than a desiring-machine, or at least better understood, to itself & others.

end ramble.

>>9817485
Slept in today so I'm glad the thread made it through the night. Good ramble as always.

No. Yes.

>>9817485
Thanks man.

>>9818329
cheers fella

>>9820435
my pleasure

/lit/ mimetosphere: &c

>>9820474
What is your throwaway email?

If anyone is interested I'll have an epub of The Girard Reader later. I have one now but the TOC is fucked and there is crazy line wrapping I have to fix.

>>9812958
I had a professor in university who collaborated with him. My professor took what he wanted from him, added some christianity and the Bateson double-bind theory, making the edge skyrocketing.

>>9817485
This is how /lit/ should be, not the usual low content posts, though I'm sort of making one now
Always insightful, always

>>9812958
I've read Peter Thiel's "Zero to One"

Do I need to bother with "Things Hidden..."?

File: tumblr_nv2cqhOJPL1ufh7yno1_1280.png (5KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 1280x720px

>>9822078
the secret of the girard-thiel bromance is one of the great mysteries of the universe. i'd say go for it, for sure. if only to dwell upon how it is that master rene managed to occult the thought of memes w/in peter thief's considerably interesting head.

and what a fucking head it is. b/c thiel connects to land, and land to -

modern philosophy is ridiculous, i tell you. it's so Not Dead it's ridiculous. modern philosophy - as capital, as cybernetics, as memes, as intelligence, as all of it - is so fucking balls-out interesting to think about the problem is where to fucking *begin.*

i honestly just wind up writing fiction now most of the time; to me that seems like the right way to go. fiction (and /lit/ - i have a deep and abiding feeling of gratitude to this place) is what allows me to catch myself thinking about this stuff in a way that makes for more interesting ideas. and less Society Should X or w/ev.

so i mean i would ofc recommend looking into girard. but reading about business too? and corporations? and how business enterprises are corporatizing intelligence the way factory enterprises factorizes bodies?

that shit is just too interesting. too fucking interesting. if only it didn't lead to so much mimetic fuckery...but really this is all perhaps just the weird feeling of one massive omni-mega-brain all waking up to itself, sending signals back and forth...

you don't want to get too silly too fast, but, i mean, there's a point beyond which *not* being silly itself seems silly. does that make sense?

>>9821027
i'll probably have to make one eventually. don't have one for now tho. just dem rambly shitposts.

>>9822058
life is cool
brains r nifty
insight is dope
anons r chill
& /lit/ es los pechos

>>9815821
Eliade started from religious studies, Girard from literary criticism. Girard is not interested in providing an universal account of religious belief and behavior itself, but more focused on desire and the violence it engenders.

>>9817221
Here's his after-9/11 interview that appeared on Le Monde, translated in English:
https://www.uibk.ac.at/theol/cover/girard/le_monde_interview.html

Let me quote the French comic Izonogoud here: "I want to be Caliph instead of the Caliph."

>>9817485

don't forget there are material determinants to all of these representations. Check out Martin Nicolaus. 60s-70s Marxist, translated the Grundrisse before going rogue and becoming a self-help guru in Berkeley. Argues, effectively, that the middle classes in the imperial metropole serve as constant capital. capital has abstracted huge swaths of the population out of value-production, and through their conversion to industries like marketing, distribution, shipping, retail, management, and other services that do not produce new commodities, but only shuffle them around to valorization points (consumers), they serve the same function today that machinery served in the factory for marx. middle classes are dead labor, machinated capital. and all this simulation mumbo-jumbo is very precisely the ideological sublimation of this alienated existence.

File: b269fb6a15ab2c1d89b9194eb2f0eeef--occult-art-dark-gothic.jpg (178KB, 736x935px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 736x935px

>>9822166
>le monde
anon thank ye most kindly sir

>grundrisse
one of the great philosophical turning points in history? hegel into marx, and latterly marx into deleuze, now deleuze into land
>although deleuze is by no means thoroughly transmitted into land, and A Thousand Plateaus is so slobberingly good it beggars the imagination
a thing.

>apital has abstracted huge swaths of the population out of value-production, and through their conversion to industries like marketing, distribution, shipping, retail, management, and other services that do not produce new commodities, but only shuffle them around to valorization points (consumers), they serve the same function today that machinery served in the factory for marx
hnng

>middle classes are dead labor, machinated capital. and all this simulation mumbo-jumbo is very precisely the ideological sublimation of this alienated existence
what a fucking post. yes. holy shit

that golden throne. that's Empire, just as tiqqun described it. we all serve it. and the Emperor of Mankind - what is *his* relationship to Chaos all about?

blanche channels hr giger, but also no end of gothic medievalism, and much else. we love 40K today because, like all great art - and i submit to you that 40K is one of the greatest settings ever produced, itself being cobbled together from moorcock, tolkien, herbert, much else, who were themselves visionary mystic/poet-seers, pbut - tells us something about this weird fascination we have with death, machinery, and desire. it's all just too fucking interesting.

art tells us that everything we are thinking is *right there in front of us.* and we like to *immerse* ourselves into these things, to *fall into mysteries* - because? because?

because some way way cool shit is going on with human intelligence, that's what. we know what we know, but we have no idea how it is that we know it.

dat *collective* phenomenology of spirit. dat *global brain wakes up.* and not just the brain. maybe it's sublimated drives, too.

could talk about this shit for days, gents. gives me the shivers.

File: Live-On-Air.png (361KB, 634x480px) Image search: [Google]

361KB, 634x480px

>>9822236
one more, to build on this.

it's not about texts anymore, not entirely; *games* are where it's at.
>mcluhan: players consent to become puppets for a while

yes yes marshall my guy. yes yes. so - puppets - of *what?* of the Feels (aesthetics) and the Rules (mechanics, logic). and where are we? fucking immersed, poeticized, aestheticized, virtualized, electrified -

live, and on the air.

icycalm has done fabulous shit in Making Vidya Great Again. the girardfag would very much to see more into *ludology* and the *ludosphere* and all the rest. what it means to share a virtual world with 20k other anons, these days. that party hasn't even gotten started yet.

>>9814211
>it's why RG was a cool guy. let's try and rein in the whole bloodthirsty death-driven ape thing. let's try something different

so how does thiel buck this? dude seems pretty moldbugian and that requires blood for the vampire to finally awake.

>>9822236
I like you girardfad but don't mention Marx in the same sentence as Hegel ever again.

>>9822261
>*games* are where it's at.

In that case cf. also, obviously Wittgenstein->Lyotard, Saussure (makes much of language as a chess game)->Jameson (who provides an interesting reading of the contradiction in Saussure's two examples of the chess game in The Prison-House of Language) and Bruno Latour, who really gamifies social reality, especially in Science in Action and WHNBM

>>9822261
>>9822275

Also, if you follow up on Latour check out Serres, too, his chapter on the circulating quasi-object in The Parasite

>>9822273
>don't mention Marx in the same sentence as Hegel ever again

what? why not? hegel maps out the user interface of the machine marx describes across the volumes of capital. marx goes so far as to say this almost literally in the grundrisse: hegel's Logic is the "money of spirit," the mode in which subjectivity circulates through capitalism. when you're following hegel's categories you're tracking the general ontogenetic history of particular ideologies. in other words, hegel's logical categories are to ideology as freud's fixation stages are to the individual subject in psychoanalysis

>>9822292
>>what? why not? hegel maps out the user interface of the machine marx describes across the volumes of capital. marx goes so far as to say this almost literally in the grundrisse: hegel's Logic is the "money of spirit," the mode in which subjectivity circulates through capitalism.

That's just Marx impressing his own philosophy into Hegel's text through an anachronism, nothing in Hegel's philosophy points to any kind of materialism which consciousness is subjugated by; at the same time, to describe the logic as a 'user interface' or an 'history of ideologies is laughable, as if Hegel is a subjectivist a la Berkeleley or an anti-realist post-modernist and that the Notion is in our heads only. Hegel's project was to erase any kind of absolute difference between both.

File: Woodcut_Schachnovelle_Stefan_Zweig.jpg (1MB, 937x1300px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 937x1300px

>>9822267
thiel gonna thiel. one idea: maybe he understands that tech innovation maybe *is* the best way to get a handle on mimetic death-sex orgies of violence. not crazy. true, it now requires everyone to keep up with the ever-accelerating joneses. but w/heidegger we can now see that tech + science form an inseparable bond, and the fruit of that is corporate R&D.

thiel i can't analyze or predict. same w/musk. philosophy has a limp. his blood transfusion shit is weird. i cannot deny that i have a certain perverse fondness for the fact that he underwrote the Hulkster's lawsuit and left Gawker media a smoking hole in the ground. these are the gods & heroes we live with today. we can comport ourselves to this. the spice must flow.

anyways, talking about thiel is just always going to be interesting. b/c who knows what he's up to or what he's thinking.
>and ffs there is now an IRL thing called palantir technology. ye gods. use the memepower for good, peter, this is all we ask, and not for evil

>>9822273
kek. i was just watching zizek say something similar to this the other day. can't find the clip atm but it's there: 'marx was not a philosopher.'

so i hear you. hegel is the jam of the jam. i've been carrying a copy of PoS around with me for weeks and will throw no shade on that guy. becoming a big fan of hegel these days & expect to increasingly become a bigger one. i read a lot of wilber & chardin & other evopsych stuff but hegel is a big deal for that. maybe the biggest. so.

>>9822275
>chess
gotta check this out if you haven't.
https://archive.org/details/THEROYALGAME

chess & game theory &c. boundless Fun. but honestly i never liked chess; too dualistic. will check out those reads tho.

i mean consider prisoner's dilemma. we need this to be able to make new developments in computer science; and of course AlphaGo is now a thing. so all of this. but it's why my favorite games are also rarely *war games* - i like watching them played at a high level, *absolutely* - but i fucking hate playing them. they begin as war games, but then they end as microcosms of war. i prefer those grand space-opera games: Twilight Imperium is super-duper-fun like that.

anyways. much else to talk about w/r/t games & intelligence & Fun. and, you know, fun.

>>9822280
>serres
on the list. hermes. he's a guy.

File: neuroplasticity.jpg (182KB, 750x530px) Image search: [Google]

182KB, 750x530px

>>9822273
>more hegel
see neuroplasticity also. catherine malabou has written some interesting stuff on this and trying to find hegel down there in the cortex. not crazy, to my mind. and not so far removed from deleuze either.
>how does metaphysics metaphysicize, anyways?
>mimetically would be my guess. by talking to other metaphysicians
>snap crackle pop

does anybody else feel a sort of mild vertigo looking at images of brains like this? i do.

>>9822353
I'm in a bit of a hurry now but you must read his lectures on the history of philosophy, at least the introductory chapters. You'll see why any kind of 'dialectical materialism' is an unwelcome interpretation of his philosophy (subjective idealism fits this bill as well tbf).
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/hp/hpconten.htm

File: the_macho_man_by_adamlimbert-d3gwrjv.jpg (379KB, 594x594px) Image search: [Google]

379KB, 594x594px

>>9822399
pic rel. thanks very kindly my guy.

>>9822353
>thiel gonna thiel.

that's the danger. tech + science reduces bodies, the meat cog needs to die and it's blood fuels the vampire. except dracula now lives in the machine. his aristocracy guise became obsolete and nazi guise was co-opted. so perhaps there's the sliver lining?

situ knew this >We are all German Jews.

so I have a hard time swallowing a girard-theil link that isn't totally window dressing.

File: 10400-2nd Edition, Artwork, Imperial Palace, John Blanche.jpg (175KB, 599x815px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 599x815px

>>9822433
>hat's the danger. tech + science reduces bodies, the meat cog needs to die and it's blood fuels the vampire. except dracula now lives in the machine.
that's it all right. the golden throne. conceals a dark and horrible secret. too grimdark even for the 40K universe.

there are places where nietzsche & girard have more in common than one might think
>he said, cryptically
>and then he thought, about that jungian house, you know
>and about that love of massive & intergalactic tombs
>and about what happens when you conflate jesus, hitler & napoleon
>ah art
>what a trip

>so perhaps there's the silver lining?
so silver it hurts.

>situ knew this >We are all German Jews.
i'd prefer to keep it psychoanalytic rather than psychohistorical. history much too much. let's schizo-emancipate rather. jailbreaking our own iPhones, as it were. metacognition. alternatives to the Joycean nightmare.

>so I have a hard time swallowing a girard-theil link that isn't totally window dressing
one would imagine that girard would just be too sweet a guy for paranoia. what thiel thinks, god only knows. but this is my thing. he's out there thinking, and so are we, and -

and.
>seriously tho that golden throne tho
>that golden throne
>& what is inside
>not so pretty
>but you can't beat the graphics

File: e847c5530eeac062bc483800eece8fa7.jpg (349KB, 765x1116px) Image search: [Google]

349KB, 765x1116px

higher resolution.

kafka on suicide watch, sometimes. this is to read him uncharitably, obv. dat guilt; o dat guilt.

but nietzsche would have had no problem at all being before *this* law. he would have said, *fuck* going inside. the view is just fine from out there. why the fuck open up *that* shit. for the truth? we have art not to perish from the truth.

and deleuze also.

o dat meatbag unconscious, i tells ya. dem feels. dem feels, right in the feels.
>tfw gnostic so hard right now
>take a chill pill my guy
>ok
>still tho
>still

>>9822464
>i'd prefer to keep it psychoanalytic rather than psychohistorical.

if memes infect our bloodlines then what is the difference between thought and body? history cycles because we are anaemic.

>but you can't beat the graphics

not via repetition but bourdieu shows that tarde and deleuze were wrong about a fixed matrix. there are still nodes, not all encompassing, and that inoculation depends on disrupted-habitus.

fuck tech, bio-disruption is what any good girardian should be thinking about and not the lysergic church, that way lies the carpathian throne.

File: FF6_Kefkaart.jpg (29KB, 350x455px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 350x455px

>>9822553
>if memes infect our bloodlines then what is the difference between thought and body?
>deleuze intensifies
>land intensifies
>cybernetics intensifies
>fucking balls-out weirdness intensifies
>i_need_a_glass_of_water.jpeg

>history cycles because we are anaemic
yes. bloodlessness a problem. also vampires. let's get Macho. let's lift some weights. let's get Muscular. antifragile. &c.

>bourdieu shows that tarde and deleuze were wrong about a fixed matrix.
yes. bordieu a guy. one other thing: those *high-class habitats* are *sexy as fuck.* cannot resist. patricians gonna patrish. refinement gonna refine. gotta be able to look good at the penthouse and on the ground floor. will massively fuck with your subjectivity. dat loss of identity
>tfw given the sponge to wipe away the horizon

the things we have to do & the places we have to go to arrive upon a consistent set of ideas & a consistent set of practices. life alone aesthetically justified
>typo: jestified
but we do not want to hand ourselves over to kaleidoscopic amusement once and forever. see pic rel for more details on this & also deleuze/leibniz/the fold. there's radical evil holden-style & radical evil in this mold as well.

>there are still nodes, not all encompassing, and that inoculation depends on disrupted-habitus.
yeah. it gets hazy for me out there tho. to disrupt or not to disrupt. to meme or not to meme. to be silent or not to be silent. to rein it in or not rein it in. to put on a suit or not put on a suit.

the upshot is that this is all just a part of becoming-human. madness is unbecoming. life is *romantic* - not schizolupic, and not autistic. love stories. good scene.

>fuck tech, bio-disruption is what any good girardian should be thinking about and not the lysergic church, that way lies the carpathian throne.
i guess. i'm over-disrupted, you could say. i did it to myself. floating somewhat on the sea, t. ishmael. would like to get back to shore.

/lit/ helps. eventually the girardfag will dissipate & meme his last meme & then life will continue. it's been a slice being here, tho. it really has.

>>9822601
I'm always pleasantly suprised how well you are able to synthesize different philosophers and ideas, another great read

>>9822601
>one other thing: those *high-class habitats* are *sexy as fuck.* cannot resist. patricians gonna patrish. refinement gonna refine. gotta be able to look good at the penthouse and on the ground floor. will massively fuck with your subjectivity. dat loss of identity

sure and yet the deep web exists. un-index life exists. bourdieu demonstrated that you can move from village to city to cathedral and disrupt it, you can move, it's not a totality.

>a consistent set of ideas & a consistent set of practices.

sure, land failed to develop anti-enlightment system by being consistent but being consistent does not mean same action on all planes. goffman was the first planes walker, wharolian jesus.

>i guess. i'm over-disrupted, you could say.

is this the crux of such a fatalistic reading of girard? is this not what the passion represents? the egyptians knew that castration is not the death of desire but the necessary step in creation. from a severed dick horus was born. from cruxifixction freedom was born. i just read girard+bourdieu+debord+tarde as a wooden shoe to the power of mechanistic reproduction. castrate the full-metal phallus, surf the deep-web, flip the bird to the god-emporor from the hive city. i want to believe.

>>9821998
Who was the professor?

>>9822327

your mistake is thinking that hegel has any authority over what is done with his philosophy.

File: 060af9a5a9c68e6be740b3b3e5a20d09.jpg (5KB, 320x320px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 320x320px

>>9822615
/lit/ mimetosphere: all glory to

>>9822709
>you can move, it's not a totality.
fullest of full disclosures about the girardfag: he is one blocked-up paralytic motherfucker. *this* quote gives him the ultrafeels.

*this* evangel: he wants to spread it.
anti-oedipus: a mindfuck.
anti-*narcissus:* a mindfuck yet to be written.

the current state: we are *spellbound by simulacra.* narco-hypnotized. dat matrix. dat life only aesthetically justified. dem memes.

those memes: *shared.*
that face: fully rocked off for the thought of it.
>this style: a meme
>ok

>un-index life exists
nomads, yes? war-machines?

i'm *caught* in other words, in a tough place. i want to integrate/i want to disrupt. it all comes out in shitposting. politics/trump/migrant crisis brought it on. /lit/ brings it out. eventually we will close our own private pandora's box and go back to reality.

this quote tho. hnng this quote.

>sure, land failed to develop anti-enlightment system by being consistent but being consistent does not mean same action on all planes
yes. that technocommercial capital. which *will* think itself accordingly. and collapse a lovely 3D world into a 2D world. it learned from its makers. we do it to ourselves.

revolution a spook, tho. enlightenment/not being a paranoid/para-android/neurotic fuckup: not a spook. *sanity:* a good scene. also love. also much else. much much else.

>is this the crux of such a fatalistic reading of girard?
it's not reading him closely enough. it's running the risk of doing to him what land did to D&G. surface w/out depth. becoming a meme. having no skin in the game. being a Hortator. all shit i am trying to work out.

>is this not what the passion represents?
maybe. i skew gnostic more than catholic. arguably a form of bad conscience.

>the egyptians knew that castration is not the death of desire but the necessary step in creation. from a severed dick horus was born. from cruxifixction freedom was born.
you are a wise motherfucker anon. i have digested lacan, to some degree. currently getting facerolled by deleuze. later to re-Oedipalize? not crazy. sublimation is a good look. hence the fetish for *art.* most of my problems proceed from failed artistry. perhaps much philosophy itself from this. i don't know.

>i just read girard+bourdieu+debord+tarde as a wooden shoe to the power of mechanistic reproduction
well whatever you're picking up from that it is interesting as fuck, so -

>castrate the full-metal phallus, surf the deep-web, flip the bird to the god-emporor from the hive city
yes

>i want to believe
well, he said, in doing this, you're making me a believer, and flipping open some of *my* switches & doors, so -

>>9822780
Sure, you're free to come up with any bullshit interpretation of any philosopher you like,

>>9821998
> adding Christianity and Bateson to Girard

lol uh....Girard literally did that in Things Hidden. He explicitly addresses the Bateson double bind.

Is your professor a hack and a liar?

>>9822794

where did you get the idea i'm interpreting hegel? i'm doing almost the exact inverse: giving an exposition of marx. as to your complaint about marx "impressing" his own philosophy, you either have no idea of marx's own education, or don't understand what a critique is, and how vulnerable hegel's system is to one.

>>9822817
>giving an exposition of marx
Exactly, you are not talking about Hegel himself.

>>9822833

right, so fuck off bitch lol

>>9822786
>revolution a spook, tho.
perhaps but only because its chthonic, parsani's dark heart, oil subjugates from deep below and as with all chthonic cults

>as above so below

graham hancock is a perceptive motherfucker. the anglo mind was possessed of annwn. possibly through hades, possibly through patala, who conquers the dead? look to the pyramids outside america. they thought they found the sun but the it was fuelled by blood. there will be blood as long as the mind tries to rise from chthonic gods.

thats why I don't buy land etc. as rhizomatic. still trying to move horizontally like marx. spectre of marx, possessed by the very spirit he tried to exorcise. horizontal thinking is death. poor debord. chtcheglov is the true skizto-philosopher.

>proceed from failed artistry. perhaps much philosophy itself from this. i don't know.

look to graffiti. roman defacement informs more about the human condition, art, than roman sculpture. catullus was channeling the latrine wall. which is the say, art only fails when it is considered art. theory-fiction failed when it was accepted as philosophy proper like. such a shame but an important distinction imo. failure is a form of comfort.

>well, he said, in doing this, you're making me a believer, and flipping open some of *my* switches & doors, so -

one day I'll write my -nomicon. idk if I can drop the necro but I believe.

File: jung-scapegoat-shadow-750x462.jpg (66KB, 750x462px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 750x462px

>>9822957
>perhaps but only because its chthonic, parsani's dark heart, oil subjugates from deep below and as with all chthonic cults
respect the darkness. this a thing. it was medard boss' complaint about freud: that heidegger understood existential psychotherapy in a much better way. leaving a little mystery there. i'd say that makes sense. good for the psyche. helps us to cope.

>there will be blood as long as the mind tries to rise from chthonic gods.
yep. gotta integrate. big fan of j-pete for this reason, all the shadow/animus stuff.

land's vision of Capital represents everything that is my own shadow, in many ways. and this pic connects girard to jung also.

>thats why I don't buy land etc. as rhizomatic. still trying to move horizontally like marx. spectre of marx, possessed by the very spirit he tried to exorcise. horizontal thinking is death.
no arguments there.

>poor debord
more baudrillard for me but it's not like they aren't functional twins in many ways.

>look to graffiti. roman defacement informs more about the human condition, art, than roman sculpture
muh desire for decadence in elegant roman baths while the city burns tho
>clean your room buckus
>true

>which is the say, art only fails when it is considered art
true af

>theory-fiction failed when it was accepted as philosophy proper like
true af

>such a shame but an important distinction imo
see above

>failure is a form of comfort
this to the moon and back. this everything. this all of it. *we love to fail.* we love to be seduced. this is why i support so many aspects of the redpill. degeneracy is the thing & the mountain to be climbed. and it *will* in a sense be a social thing, but it is not going to work when it becomes a meme: trump hats, terrorism, whatever the fuck.

enlightenment and positivity is what makes real change in the world, but trying to still be cheerful, deleuzian, however in this world after the acceleration hits you is tough. but that's how it is. whether it's antifragility, peterson stuff, redpill, whatever...whatever. it implies a lot of vulnerability, a lot of faith, a lot of hope, trust, charity...virtues that weren't so crazy, once upon a time.

it's all about evopysch with me, not so much class struggle or social movement or anything. all psychoanalytic, deeply bound up with aesthetics, much else...gotta shake those sillies out so that you can know the difference between that which is real, that which is fake, that which is important, that which is not...
>muh Existentialism
>yep. that's what it is, all right

>one day I'll write my -nomicon. idk if I can drop the necro but I believe.
my body is ready. hope you finish that shit my man. fwiw i'm trying to do the same. failing got me onto philosophyfag plateau, /lit/posting is maybe helping me slowly figure out what it was i was really trying to say.

i is an other, but it can also be a Big Other. being an anonymous (or semi-anonymous) dude helps. DFW was right.

>>9822994
>Respect the darkness. this a thing.

I'm not sold. ofc. Jung is right but there are practical ways out of the shadow. read book of the dead.

>big fan of j-pete for this reason

what does integration look like along the liminal fence? j-pete wants to turn away from the greener pasture. this is anti-life, in the worst deleuzian sense. j-pete's world has been deconstructed. that's why girard's passion is so infectious, he's not advising a return to the cross but reminding us that we should not forget the cross in our hurry to exit the burning cathedral.

>muh desire for decadence in elegant roman baths while the city burns tho

fin-de-sicle decadence is the fate of the house of batiatus. raped and murdered by their own property. the baroque walks thru the symbolist city shines on the hill. decadence has many objects but if the body chokes on the blood from a sliced throat then there is no symbiosis possible.

>his is why i support so many aspects of the redpill.

so interesting that we read in opposite directions. i can't support it because

>but it is not going to work when it becomes a meme

no thought, just reproduction. I'm also not willing to accept the matrix is total. are memes also not cracks in the simulation? can ad-copy not also be written to creative ends?

>it's all about evopysch with me, not so much class struggle or social movement or anything

sure but why? beware science dressed in therapist garb. is the meat-brain not malleable? it's true you can't "cure" psychic suffering but dragging those demons from the subconscious into focus is therapeutically effective. I think I read somewhere that most people are fine after a couple of sessions. we can overcome, just not in the way most people associate with the word.

>mfw brother is an existential-humanist psychotherapist.

>all psychoanalytic, deeply bound up with aesthetics

sure but the tarot was drawn before prophetic readings. aesthetics are always remade. fuck campbell. why go in circles until the sun dies out?

>fwiw i'm trying to do the same.

I hope you'll post your riffs. colab being the essence of rhizome etc.

File: 1428620780297.png (81KB, 225x315px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 225x315px

>>9814086
France has a president who was an assistant to budged-Girard(Ricœur).
Americans have just an advisor to the president who knows Girard.

>>9823130

>budget Girard

Triggered. Ricoeur is a philosophical powerhouse. He should be required reading in both /lit/ and /his/.

File: 51FZz9mvysL._SX329_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg (45KB, 331x499px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 331x499px

i have promised another anon that i would do something Useful today rather than posting, so we may - sadly - have to wrap this one up until later.

>>9823113
>read book of the dead
interesting. specifically for what? not memeing, just want to know

>j-pete/ greener pasture.
really? could be i guess. never thought of it that way, but yeah, i guess.

>girard/ reminding us that we should not forget the cross in our hurry to exit the burning cathedral.
this tho. def this.

pic rel also. makes you think: are we heading for the mirror-caldera, or are we heading away from it? maybe we have to choose a direction, in that sense. with all that that entails.

i prefer *heading for,* obv; but who am i likely to find there? sufis, yes; but RG also.

>the baroque walks thru the symbolist city shines on the hill
right in the feels.

> are memes also not cracks in the simulation?
the mysteriously good ones are, confirming and re-confirming the mystery of how it was they came to be there in the first place

>can ad-copy not also be written to creative ends?
no doubt it can. the desire - the *real* desire - is either there in a thing or it is not, imho, full stop period. the thing wanted to be there and would admit nothing else to stand in its way or otherwise. great art fucks with us & reminds us that we are not quite as beautiful as that. that's a *positive* kind of mimesis: *you might come to resemble this a little bit more than you presently do.* alain de botton, who i am otherwise not so crazy about, did also arrive at a similar insight. it's worth thinking about.

>is the meat-brain not malleable?
it surely is. neuroplastic as all hell, turtles all the way down. but this isn't an argument for relativism; if anything, it's an argument in favor of mouth-drooling radical curiosity and bewilderment in how it is that shit appeared at all.
and perhaps to give some turtles away, once we come to understand how they came to appear there in the first place. nietzsche was right about art: it's all about gratitude.

>it's true you can't "cure" psychic suffering but dragging those demons from the subconscious into focus is therapeutically effective
agreed. you need a *good* therapist tho. i've seen a few. most suck. some are good. therapy is a thing & i believe in it.

>we can overcome, just not in the way most people associate with the word.
yessir

>mfw brother is an existential-humanist psychotherapist
perhaps tell your brother he is fucking awesome plz

>fuck campbell
no way man no way

>why go in circles until the sun dies out?
>implying there is anywhere else to go
>heidegger: the important thing is not to get out of the circle but to come into it in the proper way

>I hope you'll post your riffs
plan to. if i ever complete Please Stop Fucking Doing This To Yourself girardfag Project X i will surely notify /lit/

>colab being the essence of rhizome etc
>D&G
>gygax & arneson
>the chemical brothers
>no end of truth in this one

>>9823144
>Ricoeur is a philosophical powerhouse
Come on anon. Both Girard and Ricoeur aren't the type to flashy french po-mos. Their ideas work more from the shadows and aren't Grand Narative enough to stand on their own. I do think that in time their ideas will influence someone big, way more than A-list guys Deluze, Foucault and Lacan.

>>9823152
>interesting. specifically for what?

in the spirit of deleuze, to bring your semiotic lens into the multiple. it's a book of myths and spells that conquer the void of death. what would girard find in a myth/spell that allows the dead to enjoy an opium-beer at the temple with everyone else?

>i prefer *heading for,* obv; but who am i likely to find there? sufis, yes; but RG also.

possibly but as dorian and narcissus, even dear ol' 'arry potter, found out, an isolated at oneself will kill you. do we want to kill humanity, remake it? land and kurzweil do but what would a futurism that doesn't look back look like? I betray myself as an optimist because that excites the shit out of me. although which direction we go doesn't bother me. the deep web awaits in case of a despotic psyche.

>re-confirming the mystery of how it was they came to be there in the first place
>fuck campbell
>no way man no way
>implying there is anywhere else to go

are you sure the circle is the only way to think? to act?

>nietzsche was right about art

tru. but evopsych seems to want to tell us there is a primeval drive and we're stuck in the same gear, helpless to watch as the car plunges over the cosmological cliff. the two seem to be at odds.

>you need a *good* therapist tho

sure but the ability to do that makes me suspicious of evopsych claims.

>gygax & arneson

+ barker. the petal throne, what a guy.

>>9815821
Eliade is more like a historian of religious beliefs and universal religious structures. Girard is more like a theorizer of how and why do religious structures relate to our deep psychological structures.

>>9823159
>Girard's ideas aren't Grand Narratives
You have a lot to catch up on, it seems.

A question I have always asked myself through all those years of reading Girard: can't there be benevolent imitation?

Discuss.

>>9823571
(IMO you're all wasting too much time on the microcosm of money and technoinformation instead of focusing on the macrocosm of scatology. The end of the fucking world is coming! We gotta learn how to proper imitate as soon as possible. Renouncing alone won't save our souls. And is it even possible to fully renounce violence? How can we become saints if not by uncovering the way of divine imitation?)

>>9823579
>>9823571
How can we become artists?

>>9823591
This site obviously.

>>9823591
the 64 million dollar question of questions.

Guys, what do you think about James Alison and Charles Taylor?

File: taylor-charles.jpg (82KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 480x480px

>>9826376
>alison
haven't read him. cheers for the rec tho.

>taylor
interesting guy and haven't read enough of him either. a good look for canada's foremost intellectual anyways. i intend to read his book on hegel at some point. sources of the self has been on my list for a while but seems tedious, and yet you would think a narcissistic memecuck like me would be all over that.

see also A Secular Age, which is yet another book i need to get to. too many fucking books.

he's also had some cool collaborations with hubert dreyfus, who is *the* heidegger guy in the US, or so i understand. & dreyfus is cool also.

in general catholic philosophers just seem to be where it's at these days. i don't know if it's because they're the only ones with the range to survive the toxic fallout of death-rattle postmodernity or not, or if just that catholicism as universalism and philosophy have just had a wicked historical bromance. whatever it is it's the least cynical reading around and that's a good look.

basically as i see it there are at least three interesting options on the table.

1) digest capitalism & schizophrenia fully and become a war-machine artist, explode in ecstatic-masochistic schizophrenic rainbows, & Make Spinoza Great Again;

2) leave some room for jesus, intellectually speaking, and philosophize accordingly;

3) become a confucius-style ethicist and work to preserve the cosmic balance of the universe.

there are lots of others ofc. but those all seem pretty legit. anyways, would be interested to hear what other anons think about taylor, or alison.

the Raven Foundation, tho. what a fucking cool name. dem philosophical salvage ops. i'd love to work for those guys.

>>9826376
>Alison
Haven't read him but he looks pretty gay.

>Taylor
His book on Hegel is the greatest synthesis of a philosopher I have ever read - and it's fucking Hegel, for Christ's sake! His perspectives on the nature and origins of the self are extremely absorving if you're into the story of thought-shaping, psycho-symbolic analitics and the Christian perspective as a whole (the primitive and modern aceptions of major concepts such as vocation, destiny, memory etc).

>>9826666
>in general catholic philosophers just seem to be where it's at these days. i don't know if it's because they're the only ones with the range to survive the toxic fallout of death-rattle postmodernity or not, or if just that catholicism as universalism and philosophy have just had a wicked historical bromance. whatever it is it's the least cynical reading around and that's a good look.
That's exactly it.

>basically as i see it there are at least three interesting options on the table.
Well, 1 and 2 are not really self-excludent, you see.

>>9827590
>His book on Hegel is the greatest synthesis of a philosopher I have ever read - and it's fucking Hegel, for Christ's sake! His perspectives on the nature and origins of the self are extremely absorving if you're into the story of thought-shaping, psycho-symbolic analitics and the Christian perspective as a whole (the primitive and modern aceptions of major concepts such as vocation, destiny, memory etc).
that is quite a recommendation. will into this
>fucking hell so many goddamn fucking books to read aaaarr

>>9827601
>Well, 1 and 2 are not really self-excludent, you see.
don't see. not baiting you either, just curious. plz explain senpai

>>9826376

Charles Taylor was a great African warlord. The world will not see the likes of his selfless devotion to money, power, and judiciously chosen ways to inflict suffering for a long time.

File: the_self_article.jpg (75KB, 670x388px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 670x388px

>>9827628
holy SHIT. so that's why funding was never a problem at mcgill
>mfw

>>9827618
>don't see. not baiting you either, just curious. plz explain senpai
I'm saying we are at the edge of history and if you can mantain an apocalyptical imaginary it will not be hard to see in which way there is room for a post-modern hermeneutic of Christianity. Even semi-hacks like Vattimo have noticed this. I'm saying there is benevolent imitation, just as there's benevolent irony (and Jesus had the greatest taste for irony!). We don't have to denounce commodity-schizophrenia in favor of the Christian experience nor vice-versa.

Girard was right about Nietzsche after all: he really was a visionare - though deeply anguished - closet-Christian.

File: 550px-Laocoon.b.p1.300.jpg (200KB, 550x669px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 550x669px

>>9827786
so fucking into this. so much so.

my whole thing is art. i'm all fucked up over it. but i mean the more i wreak this insane, demented, never-ending fucking nightmare-child out of myself the more i come to appreciate catholicism more and more.

no doubt i have gotten here through the Back Channels and then some. in all of my reading i never really had a super-hegel experience, and in my IRL life or background very little encounter at all with either Christianity or Catholicism. i was much too fedora for that
>and am still a weird subspecies of fedora now

but i mean i just increasingly feel that one of the issues is cynicism. this is confirmed and reconfirmed in 20m different ways in continental philosophy: by zizek, by slotetdijk, by baudrillard, by land, by nietzsche, by deleuze, by absolutely fucking everybody. by peterson, in his way also. by all of them.

i mean hardened nietzscheans will shit on us for this but nietzsche is fucking leading me somewhere i didn't expect to go. when i started this project years ago the one thing i was sure was *not* going to be in it was religion. and now that's fucking all i think about. mostly through guys who the church has Problems with: chardin, for instance. or blake.

i like the tao also, and very muchly. and as much as i would like to simultaneously play for every team in town - as my posts indicate - that's basically impossible and keeps me driven downwards into very strange, silly, painful, and bizarre loops.

>if you can mantain an apocalyptical imaginary
yeah.

>We don't have to denounce commodity-schizophrenia in favor of the Christian experience nor vice-versa
the things this shit will do to your perceptions tho. right?

>Girard was right about Nietzsche after all: he really was a visionare - though deeply anguished - closet-Christian.
the tragic mode of perception is that thing & reveals myth. girardian religious theory - if he is right - does the same for religion. i don't know how i'm going to work out my mad mad love for deleuze w/a growing interest in hegel but...well, it's just interesting af to think about.

thanks for the cool post, anon. benevolent imitation, eh? hmm.

File: slide_15.jpg (87KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 960x720px

>>9823571
>can't there be benevolent imitation?

fuck. i think i have an idea:

it's humility. that's the answer. or part of it. you have to assume that the person you are imitating is smarter, more complex, wiser, more Positive Quality X whatever than you.

meme: presuming you are so much smarter.
meme: presuming the other sees things exactly the same way you do.
meme: presuming the other can't possibly see things the way you do, and so infinitely going mental.

not meme: *assuming* the intelligence of the other and giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are smarter than you. assuming that they already know what you are going to tell them, but knowing that you still have to say it anyways, &c, but they also know this.

does that not make sense? the problem ofc is that if you do this you may wind up not wanting to say anything for fear of looking stupid.
>a very real danger

but you have to begin with the presumption of not only intelligence but also superior intelligence. you have to *salute* the other person, in a way, and appeal to that which *you cannot presume is not in fact there.*

baudrillard talks about this: simulation is pretending you have something you don't, dissimulation is pretending you dont have something you do. okay. so what is this other category then? that is:

what happens when you simulate the *other* person having something because you cannot be sure that they do not know that they have it?

so a positive mimesis would be a reverse-simulation: you have to start with, perhaps, the presumption that the other is capable of dissimulating at a level higher than you are capable of simulating. something like that.

this is directly related to the story i am writing, which is all about telepathy & its discontents, fwiw.

>tfw you will surely sound crazy now & should be working on writing instead of shitposting.
>but still tho

File: quote-improvise-adapt-overcome-from-cafepress.jpg (38KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 480x480px

>>9828416
>tfw you get excited because for some reason you were not aware that the concept of improvisation already existed
>tfw mildly embarrassed
>tfw will retreat in shame

improvisation, yo. actors working together, creatively, spontaneously. with something more interesting than just What Did He Mean By This going on. that's all i mean to say, i think.

>>9828416
Empathy is the main lesson I often get from reading fiction. Just being able to get out of myself and humbling myself towards Other's experiences by accumulating narratives and interconnecting them. Absorbing that mythopoetical sense of universality that fiction transpires.

I mean, I'm still narcissistic af (in the Lavellian sense of the word) but fiction gradually teachs us to listen to what Everything is saying (fuck, does It speak! If you pay close attention It is nothing but endless talk), and that's a moral improvement no doubt.

Maybe fiction is the cure (and I mean fiction in the broader sense of the word - music is fiction in it's on right, or at least a virtual simulation of being-through-fiction, and cinema, and theater and so on).

It's this intricate web of Life, you know?, people talking to each other, people loving each other and hating each other. Learning how to admire that. Seeing the subtle patterns of intention when you're having a conversation. Getting to the deep point of a friend's personality. Laughing like a maniac. Loving your parents. The Great Architecture of Life. Have you ever read Julián Marías?

>>9828518
That's some good insight. For example, what is improvisation when you really think about it? Like, on an ontological level? It's a type of freedom, it's uncuffing from habits - dasein -, but it is also a state of mild/flexible/responsible schizophrenia.

>>9829047
*Lavellean

Also, girardfag, do you have an email or something?

File: neuro plasticity.png (164KB, 640x468px) Image search: [Google]

164KB, 640x468px

>>9829047
>improvisation/on an ontological level?
>a state of mild/flexible/responsible schizophrenia.

yes. and very well said. that's what i think also. consciousness to me sometimes can be likened to driving a car: paranoia the accelerator, empiricism the brake. and that gearbox is - well - schizoplastic? something?

because we are talking about a kind of voluntaristic neuroplasticity here. the puppet capable of pulling its own network of strings. not needing to either hack them all away - and plummet into the darkness, laughing all the way down - or be a complete automaton, however we wish to conceive of this.

we are squishy meatbags, but there is nevertheless some Thing in there somewhere that tells me i *also* do not like a world of *total relativity either* - because all that happens then is that i wind up being pulled by the strings of that same total relativity. or conversely; how do i know what i know how i am that i am? these are all very dirty rhetorical tricks that stalin, or the grand inquisitor, or whoever else (and all well-transmitted v/zizek) figured out: you force the other person to deny a thing, and no matter what, there they stand, looking guilty.

improvisation has something going on that's very interesting like that. ofc i am also deeply troubled by stuff that i read that invites us to think the entire world as entirely a construct of our minds, and this is why i am so hung up on *mimesis* but not so much *meme-mimesis,* if that makes any sense. i much much prefer that deep baudrillardian fatalism - or gnostic ??? - to surface-level 2D shenanigans.

now. now now: i is an other &c. "truth given to the subject at a price that brings the subject's own being into question," the foucault quote of motherfucking quotes - well. well well. what happens when we start waking up to a world in which we realize that so much of what is we call Truth comes from *other people* in this insane fucking way? it doesn't just come sui generis. even the discovery of the rules of quantum physics themselves require *a certain order and level of civilization to itself be reached* before this is possible. heidegger sorted all this out. science depends upon instruments, instruments in turn produce science, and around and around we go. latterly we *privatize* this and enters the technocommercium. but it still relies, fundamentally, on human beings being able to get along, communicate, all the rest...

you know what else is fucking cool to think about? besides *this* marvellous word:
>entelechy
squad-level tactics. everything about this is good. small bands, mutually co-interdependent, learning to adapt, overcome, improvise. doesn't always have to be military. can just be conversational. so that one can get, perhaps, as lacan says, *the words trapped in the body out of the body.* b/c all that shit leads to neurosis & hysteria, and the less of that there is in the world, the better.

(cont'd)

File: noosphere-4.jpg (109KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 600x400px

>>9829047
>>9829115

this is not to say of course that a super-hysterical civilization, such as the one of the renaissance in italy, wasn't spectacularly innovative; no doubt hair-triggers & daggers in the dark go well with creative stimuli, while the swiss produce only the cuckoo clock. but there are all kinds of interesting things we can basically ask ourselves about these ideas of creativity, innovation, survival mechanism, and so on, in this way.

>>9829047
>Empathy is the main lesson I often get from reading fiction. Just being able to get out of myself and humbling myself towards Other's experiences by accumulating narratives and interconnecting them.
yes. that's there. sometimes preening yourself also a little tho...no? i mean, come on, that's part of LARPing the french also. you have to be able to turn your nose up at *somebody...*

>Absorbing that mythopoetical sense of universality that fiction transpires.
yes. absolutely.
did nothing wrong:
>homer
>dante
>bach
>melville
>aeschylus
&c.

man some of these Great Books are Great, you know?

>I mean, I'm still narcissistic af (in the Lavellian sense of the word) but fiction gradually teachs us to listen to what Everything is saying (fuck, does It speak! If you pay close attention It is nothing but endless talk), and that's a moral improvement no doubt.
yes. we are halfway between the gutter and the stars on this. humble when it's time to be humble; nietzschean when it's time to get nietzschean. a philosophical gearbox of sorts. but *we are all narcissists,* deep down; mimeticism is the deal.

>Maybe fiction is the cure (and I mean fiction in the broader sense of the word - music is fiction in it's on right, or at least a virtual simulation of being-through-fiction, and cinema, and theater and so on).
*writing* fiction is good also, i think. and *composing* music. so that you can appreciate *how fucking hard it is to produce good stuff* and *what an mind-fuck it is to have a beethoven at all.* or a melville. or a shakespeare. or -

producing pornography > consuming pornography.
how about that? you want to watch porn? fine. *go make some first.* oh man. can you imagine. can you fucking imagine if it were so.

>It's this intricate web of Life, you know?, people talking to each other, people loving each other and hating each other. Learning how to admire that.
yep yep

>Seeing the subtle patterns of intention when you're having a conversation. Getting to the deep point of a friend's personality. Laughing like a maniac. Loving your parents.
forgiving your parents sometimes as well. try that one on. ye fucking gods.

>The Great Architecture of Life.
The Great Architecture of Life.

>Have you ever read Julián Marías?
nope. should i?

>>9829060
>email
one of these days. for now i prefer to keep it /lit/. just more going on out front that way, fosters more interesting stuff. if/when we make it to level-2 there will be an established Girardfag Zone, maybe.

File: 42-19948405.jpg (57KB, 1260x560px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 1260x560px

>>9829125

in the end, of course, lacan was fucking right about just about everything concerning the Real & the desire of the Other &c. as was deleuze (in the complete opposite sense). there isn't *so* much that's new going on here. between those behemoths there's a whole hell of a lot of ground covered that should be read before we get too excited about re-inventing the wheel. and baudrillard also, many others.

still tho. i just like that it's still sometimes possible to squeeze this charming old bastard in there too to remind us, you know, that there are *other options* in between the sadean Fun and war-machines & so on. and that it doesn't even require seizing the means of production so much either, if you're a little worn out from that. just get with Great Books for a while.

what a cool guy rene girard was. just very little to dislike about that man.

>Super late to the thread

Sorry if already posted, but is there a recommended "book list" for him? Just scanning this thread has peaked my interest in reading some of his works.

File: 1499492963242.png (97KB, 1866x550px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 1866x550px

>>9829151
this was screencapped not so long ago. it is full of embarrassing typos & grammar errors & other things. it is being deservedly passed on as a grim reminder to myself that i need to edit my fucking posts more carefully b/c you never know when this is going to happen anymore.

>dem internet snapshots

>>9829165
Cheers!

>>9829176
np. and that damn shakespeare book still hasn't arrived!

File: what did goethe mean by this.jpg (101KB, 640x849px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 640x849px

just to continue, however briefly: it always fucks with me how much people are their circumstances. by which i mean, you cannot help but have imprinted on you the ontological conditions of those around you. empathy is just like this.

but i mean when you start thinking about the *origins* of a guilt-condition (or a happiness condition, i suppose, but those rarely seem to last for very long...while the shitty stuff seems to last forever & come into your dreams &c)...it will really fuck with you. all the decisions you made to be in one place, to be one way and not another. and how much you just invariably wind up feeling like the other, mimicking others.

maybe this proceeds from not having a stable or well-developed sense of identity; it could be. but if you go looking for the terra firma in what makes you you it's pretty hard to find. even memories get changed around simply by the act of taking them out of the closet and reflecting on them, your fantasies change, your ideas about the future change from one moment to the next. among philosophers, you can feel like a philosopher. among soldiers, you can feel like a soldier. among shitposters...uh...

well anyways what i mean is that goethe was pretty interesting.

>>9829125
>nope. should i?
Well, now that I think about it maybe you shouldn't. You just seem like an energy-driven mind, electric, paranoical, pynchonesque, and Marías may be too laid back for you. What you really should read right now are the mystics like Eckhart, Noica, Holderlin.

I'd suggest you keep eating that fuel you eat every morning. I bet some good things will come out of mouths like yours in the near future. Keep driving that body-machinery. Force it to clash against (or "with") others like it. When and if it ever runs out of gas, then maybe pick up Marías and go live by yourself in the wild.

>>9829270
This post is very good. I'd suggest anyone who finds this post appealing to read Girard's work, as it can pretty much be read as an intro to mimetic theory.

Nice talking to you, Anon. See you some other time, maybe.

I've got a decent epub of The Girard Reader now. I kept the page numbers because it makes the footnotes less confusing. As with everything, start with the glossary.

>>9829176
also recommend tarde: http://re-press.org/book-files/9780980819724-Monadology_and_Sociology.pdf

his theories around imitation enhance the perspectives on girard's memetic desire.

File: paris-20141017.jpg (239KB, 2048x1338px) Image search: [Google]

239KB, 2048x1338px

the impression i get from skimming over the posts of this thread is a preschool chalkboard scribbled on by precocious young 'intellectually-gifted' schizophrenic retards

File: 0404100-a.jpg (12KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 300x300px

>>9830918
>precocious young 'intellectually-gifted' schizophrenic retards

not me senpai. i'm as mediocre as they come & boy do i know it & that is why i am here. to dissipate all that need for attention once & 4 evah.

that is a nice butt-plug tho

where are you at on gold-plate and matched sets

personally i think they're a little much

& unfortunately i have to go out today. catch all tomorrow.

>>9830918

That's a fun gratuitous offense, but posts like that would fit just about any thread in here. Either become schizo yourself or concede to be down-to-earth in a place where there's not any ground to begin with.

the most profound philosophical insight ive had came to me as i was having a wank one day, and my right hand was becoming quite numb. wisdom settled on my brow as i realised the hand, numbed, was (epistemologically speaking) as much a part of me as someone else was a part of me

Moral: the universe is perpetually fucking itself

>>9831138
kek

I just read the last chapter of Death, Desire, and the Novel. Seems really similar to Maps of Meaning.

File: Goethe_Schiller_Die_Temperamentenrose.jpg (92KB, 800x817px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 800x817px

>>9829633
>You just seem like an energy-driven mind, electric, paranoidal
very true. too many butterflies in my stomach

>What you really should read right now are the mystics like Eckhart, Noica, Holderlin.
i didn't know noica was a guy, so thank you for this. eckhart & holderlin ofc. i like both of these guys quite a lot.

>I'd suggest you keep eating that fuel you eat every morning. I bet some good things will come out of mouths like yours in the near future. Keep driving that body-machinery. Force it to clash against (or "with") others like it.
i was embiggening this advice in another thread. it's very good also.

>goethe/girard
interesting combination, no doubt.

there is a horizon beyond which the darkness is just unbecoming and the lights too bright. color theory, you know? color theory. interesting stuff in a feels > reals world.

take care anon. see you in the next thread, or whenever.

>>9832259
what parts in particular?

File: blog_pepper-4.jpg (257KB, 450x601px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 450x601px

should respond to this also.

>>9823260
>in the spirit of deleuze, to bring your semiotic lens into the multiple.
something very true about this. as i've been saying, the monomyth fucks me up. the big hero myth. it's breaking things up into multiplicities, parts and pieces, that severs one from the terrible power of the Law; and that Law is the Big Other. or at least it is for me. i am beholden to insane rules that no other imposes on me but my own ego, my own need to be an I, the need to break out of that same panopticon. i know this.

>what would girard find in a myth/spell that allows the dead to enjoy an opium-beer at the temple with everyone else?
this seems like more walter benjamin's thing perhaps than girard's.

>do we want to kill humanity, remake it?
better not to ask, right? it's good we don't have this power, and should turn it away. however seductive.

>land and kurzweil do but what would a futurism that doesn't look back look like?
it may never have been tried.
>mcluhan: the future of the future is the present, and this is terrifying

>I betray myself as an optimist because that excites the shit out of me
may it ever be so, my man.

>the deep web awaits in case of a despotic psyche.
kek

>are you sure the circle is the only way to think? to act?
circles whether closed or vicious were good enough for heidegger and nietzsche. rhizomes and plateaus are more the thing at the moment. feel free to talk about this at however much length you need tho, anon. i'm interested.

>but evopsych seems to want to tell us there is a primeval drive and we're stuck in the same gear, helpless to watch as the car plunges over the cosmological cliff
this has more or less been my experience thus far. turning said car around has proven to be a fucking nightmare.

>the two seem to be at odds.
no kidding.

>petal throne
TIL. you're all right, anon. this reminds me how fucking much i love high-concept 70s/80s fantasy. check out bob pepper some time and the work he did on dark tower & others. pic rel. thank ye muchly.

HOW DO I STOP AGONIZING MYSELF FOR NOT BEING SOMEONE ELSE

>>9812958
Okay all this Girad posting has gotten me interested. Where do I start with this bad boy?

>>9832638
I feel like girardfag probably has a very intricate chart he made or something for us that will be posted relatively soon. And that is awesome.

>>9832291
>And we would at last realize that Christian symbolism is universal, for it alone is able to give form to the experience of the novel.
>>9832638
I think The Girard Reader is good. It's a bunch of essays, excerpts from his books, and interviews. I made an epub from the pdf that is pretty good if you'd like.

>>9832638
Things Hidden or I See Satan Fall or To Double Business Bound imo.

Probably I See Satan Fall....

>>9832464
Christianity. That's the key to solving the whole problem of mimetic desire/sacrificial violence. Not sure if anyone understands girardfags rants, but for Girard, it's Christian morality or a decline into civil war aka apocalypse. His views are a lot like that of Dostoevsky, especially if you can perceive the irony in the Grand Inquisitor chapter. Christian morality is the only morality there is. All other moral systems are Christianity without Christ (aka liberalism). And they're still sacrificial, thus will decline into civil war.

>>9832638
>>9832638
His CBC interviews.

Listen to all 5 of them. It's worth it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Y8dVVV4To

>>9832689
what if you shared the pdf, which I would like better?

>>9832718
The pdf is easy to find on the Russian site we all know and love. I don't know where to post the epub. anonfiles?

Yes. No.

File: 1501179460622.png (966KB, 1915x1080px) Image search: [Google]

966KB, 1915x1080px

>>9832659
>I feel like girardfag probably has a very intricate chart he made or something for us that will be posted relatively soon

>relatively soon
i wouldn't hold your breath, but i intend to finish an old project of mine eventually. it would be much less a chart however than a kind of record of a civil war in a sort of loosely steampunk thieves guild. a lot of overlapping conspiracies rendered in hard-boiled noir dialogue. also insects. and sword fights and kungfu. and some other things i have weird obsessions with.

>And that is awesome.
that is the idea. been working on it for a while now. have hit some major roadblocks on the way that are usually resolved by getting metaphysically facerolled by some german or french guy. i've checked most of the boxes i feel the need to check for the time being so there will be less shitposting and more work done on something else for a while.

girardfaggery has to go on the back burner for a while now, unfortunately.
>or fortunately, depending on your threshold of tolerance for hysterical memefagging
i am most saddened about this, b/c i do very much like this place. but all good things must if not come to an end at least take the occasional hiatus lest they become played out & recursive.

i try whenever possible to follow the alex kierkegaard rule tho: whatever it is, it has to be Awesome. he's right about that, as he is conspicuously right about a lot of things in aesthetics. insufficient Awesomeness is a problem for everyone.

>>9835132
You could always just drop the name and join in the haeccity. You're the only good namefag I've ever seen but it's always easy to lay low here.

File: Terminator-T-800-Arnold-Schwarzenegger-Red-Eye-Art-Huge-Print-Poster-TXHOME-D7630.jpg_640x640.jpg (92KB, 640x478px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 640x478px

>>9835216
>You could always just drop the name and join in the haeccity.
i'm not so sure about this. even when the damn thing is finished i suspect i will even then prefer anonymity. names fuck me up. they fuck everyone up.

i used to be all-in on the idea of fame &c. i dreamed of someday giving an interview and talking about myself, book signings &c. so fucking puerile but it's true. who doesn't want to be grrm? who doesn't want Fuck You money?

the problem with Fuck You money is the fuck you part. something about fuck you just always seemed wrong to me. i prefer Maybe Not Fuck You. certainly continental philosophy seems to suggest little else other than an Oh Fuck Me which you just have to fucking eat in the end.

>it's always easy to lay low here.
it is. that was originally the plan. unfortunately /lit/ turned out to be so gobsmackingly fucking interesting that i inadvertently became a namefag. that shit must also be gotten to level-2.

>briefly also:
i think pic rel is my favorite film. there are some contenders for this title:
>baraka
>the seven samurai
>nolan batman
>others

but this film just has everything & more. it really does. not only b/c of the landian/acceleration stuff, but also the whole Oedipal subtext & family stuff.

you know what i especially love about this film? the humor. without it it would be nothing. arnold's presence is overwhelming, but the whole thing is a study in heroic masochism. arnold, bless him, manages to find a way to find the humor in what would otherwise be an incredibly bleak story.

it's also why he is such a god-tier action hero: unlike stallone, or steven seagal, or many others, arnold retained his humanity as humor. willis does this too, in the die hard films. it's also why jackie chan is >>>>> jet li. because chan is continually getting the shit kicked out of him and finding ways that are balletic af but nevertheless *comic.* a *light touch* is required with this stuff. however heavy it all gets, if there is no laughter at the bottom, something is missing. Heavy is good, and we live in an age suffocating from meme irony, infinite jests abounding, but the comedy *with* the gravity - a minor miracle.

the weird thing is that i am a ridiculous human being who in his ridiculousness stumbled into nick land's cosmic wet dream. and much else. you know what deleuze says about being trapped in the dream of the other.

so it is time to unfuck ourselves. my irl existence is so galacto-fucked that anonymity is in the interim where it is at. this i have learned. but also the irony of invariably leaving a trace on an anonymous ugandan pole-dancing board. things you can't predict.

i love this place. i rarely if ever have been able to restrain myself from enjoying too much of good things. it's a balancing act.

seriously tho, terminator 2. lacks for nothing. has everything. such a fucking wonderful film. so much going on there.

File: 100-149.png (10KB, 480x416px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 480x416px

>anonymity

>shrouded in odd clothing,
>...is this a man?
>...a woman...?
>...or should we ask?

cannot find a flaw here. i mean this game is just an embarrassment of riches, this game. you already have kefka palazzo, steampunk, Empire, uematsu...and one of the all-time great easter-egg finds in vidya. famed mimic gogo, curiously snug in a Zone Eater on Triangle Island: be still my beating heart.

ideology sucks. quite frankly beyond a certain horizon philosophy sucks too.

the baroque, tho:

>deleuze: for some time now the idea of an infinite universe has been hypothesized, a universe that has lost all centre as well as any figure that could be attributed to it; but the essence of the Baroque is that it is given unity, through a projection that emanates from a summit as a point of view. For some lime the world has been understood on a theatrical basis, as a dream, an illusion - as Harlequin's costume, as Leibniz would say.

>but the essence of the Baroque entails neither falling into nor emerging from illusion but rather realizing something in illusion itself, or of tying it to a spiritual presence that endows its spaces and fragments with a collective unity. The prince of Homburg, and all of Kleist's characters, are not so much Romantic as they are Baroque heroes. Prey to the giddiness of minute perceptions, they endlessly reach presence in illusion, in vanishment, in swooning, or by converting illusion into presence

>the Baroque artists know well that hallucination does not feign presence, but that presence is hallucinatory.

>in the expression "preestablished hamony," "preestablished" is no less important than "harmony." Harmony is twice preestablished: by virtue of each expression, of each expressant that owes only to its own spontaneity or interiority, and by virtue of the common expression that establishes the concert of all these expressive spontaneities. It is as if Leibniz were delivering us an important message about communication: don't complain about not having enough communication, for there is always plenty of it. Communication seems to be of a constant and preestablished quantity in the world, akin to a sufficient reason.

>the question always entails living in the world, but Stockhausen's musical habitat or Dubuffet's plastic habitat do not allow the differences of inside and outside, of public and private. to survive. They identify variation and trajectory, and overtake monadology with a "nomadology." Music has stayed at home: what has changed now is the organization of the home and its nature. We are all still Leibnizian, although accords no longer convey our world or our text. We are discovering new ways of folding, akin to new envelopments, but we all remain Leibnizan because what always matters is folding, unfolding, refolding.

what a fucking world. the things people think.

File: 2ee3f214abb125678bdb967461a0b8e1.jpg (89KB, 736x816px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 736x816px

kys

File: tumblr_mfvd89oqKg1r80uvjo1_1280.jpg (100KB, 1280x731px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 1280x731px

>>9835518
the neetch was so cool

i'll use grammar when i have something awesome enough to capitalize. like a Cool Idea maybe. or whenever i decide to stop being a Fuckface

File: stock-photo-a-broken-clock-face-against-a-white-background-with-a-clipping-path-in-sepia-163190069.jpg (21KB, 450x320px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 450x320px

>when the pratityasamutpada finally hits you
Somebody get me something dank I just lost the fucking eschaton.

A white horse isn't a horse, fuck me.

File: Each_arrow_overshot_his_head_by_Elmer_Boyd_Smith.jpg (340KB, 464x756px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 464x756px

Anyways, being playful for a moment here, does Girard ever happen to comment on the Baldr story? Because the whole thing seems like a super straight and compressed version of the Jesus story in which mimetic desire is fully externalized.

Norse myth is crazy in all its responses to Christianity.

File: hear-+Compare+Apply+Infer+Analyze.jpg (59KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 960x720px

>>9835922
&c. mildly jealous also. i've been mostly grinding out my own infinite solipsism/nutshell king fiction project & have not done much reading on the buddhists or of xunzi.

>>9835951
>because the whole thing seems like a super straight and compressed version of the Jesus story in which mimetic desire is fully externalized.

i don't believe so. am fully intrigued if you feel like getting /lit/ about it tho. did Baldr achieve the BwO? something else? do tell/echolocate/wax poetic good sir, sounds Fun to me & i am all ears

>>9835972
whoops.
>i don't believe so
referred to this:
>does Girard ever happen to comment on the Baldr story?

for clarification.

>>9835983
kek or i could literally spend five fucking seconds and google for confirmation that i am an absolute fucking retard:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=-YQFDgAAQBAJ&pg=PT105&lpg=PT105&dq=girard+baldr&source=bl&ots=7r59j8tWP2&sig=_8l6PF3hwZmTg04OKnnyrgeDH24&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGrMHV2LbVAhVKw4MKHUJBATIQ6AEILTAB#v=onepage&q=girard%20baldr&f=false

ignore girardfag when he says he knows things. he knows little.

File: gilbertWilliams-Passage.jpg (243KB, 1296x1017px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 1296x1017px

>>9835972
There's no oceanic feeling, that's the thing. Time, distance, action, all are part of objects; they don't have a self more than anything else. So time doesn't "pass" like a river you're submerged in--rather everything is the river, which is moving. Time is the sum total of all action. Action is not one thing acting on another but more like... puzzle pieces, the passive already has the shape of the active.

As for the paradox, it's pretty simple: a "horse" is a "white horse" or a "non-white horse"; a "white horse" is not a "non-white horse", so it's not a "horse". So the more specific and complex an object is, the "smaller" it becomes; decay increases complexity, and observance increases decay.

I guess I'm all outta ends for the moment. I've been spooked by mimesis far too long.

>have not done much reading on the buddhists or of xunzi
On my side I'm getting really interested in Girard, might have a go at Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World. I'd had the same reading he did of the Eden story.

>did Baldr achieve the BwO?
What's that?

But what's interesting to me is basically a Greek tragedy, where trying to avoid the prophecy is why it ends up being true. Then you have both the victim (Baldr) and the culprit (Hödr) being innocent; meaning Hödr isn't even killed as a scapegoat, but do to the law. And the law is all that moves the story: everyone making an oath to not hurt Baldr save for one innocent plant, which Loki still manages to find a way to make deadly because the gods now finally found the Unbreakable in Baldr. So that which stops rivalry ends up being an object of rivalry.

File: advertising is the new coal.jpg (131KB, 576x1024px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 576x1024px

>>9836370
i'm all about this.

the whole deal to me is Time. that's just it now. that's where it's at. Time - and *control* of same.

so maybe this. what heidegger sorts out is Technology. deleuze and land: capital, time, schizophrenia. all these things are connected, but in the absence of Muh Revolution the thing to do to my mind is to start thinking Time, consciousness, control, mimesis. because that's how we work now: feels > reals, but once you get really mimetic about things you can realize that maybe this is just a positive or at least interesting place to end up in. because we are all bound up in this process & having metacognitive Fun with desire - but also there has to be some way of talking *therapy* as emptiness, as space, as relief from desire, as the necessary medicine cabinet for all those black holes.

pic rel should give you more stuff to think about. but this is why i prefer these conversations. b/c beyond a certain horizon being another Master of Suspicion is just so fucking tedious, because *you will not be able to articulate what it is that you are being Suspicious about* - what, *loss of fucking identity?* give me a break. becoming replaced by a robot? ok, optimize for intelligence. but we cannot presume for a hot second that somehow we are going to hit the *end of complexity.* the spice must flow.

but it's not about money, even. it's just about CTRL. that's what deleuze suspected. i suspect it also. CTRL is the real currency, i think, in terms of time. looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this & much else as per usual.

so:
>Time, distance, action, all are part of objects; they don't have a self more than anything else. So time doesn't "pass" like a river you're submerged in--rather everything is the river, which is moving. Time is the sum total of all action. Action is not one thing acting on another but more like... puzzle pieces, the passive already has the shape of the active.
see, this is what i like. the *experience of time for the Other* may be analogous to my own, but it sure as shit isn't a simulacra or simulation.

>So the more specific and complex an object is, the "smaller" it becomes; decay increases complexity, and observance increases decay.
yes.

>BwO/what's that?
body without organs ofc. deleuze's recipe for an emancipated schizoid-nomad-artist-warmachine

>trying to avoid the prophecy is why it ends up being true.
yes. gotta own the prophetic stuff. much into this. radical *trust* > radical suspicion

>So that which stops rivalry ends up being an object of rivalry.
from the sublime to the ridiculous perhaps, but this is sort of what i was talking about the other day about the heavyweight championship in WWE. *the transformation of the divine into symbolism* - the crafting or conceptualization, in other words, of a sort of petit objet a - and its value to society.
>2017
>"society"
>kys
>&c

you've definitely got me intrigued now to brush up on the buddhists.

File: Image00006.jpg (57KB, 800x375px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 800x375px

>>9836458
If there's no Time beside the time you project, then you're living on a straight line: no recurrence, no cycle, no spiral, no nothing. And it technically isn't going anywhere either, it's more like a point than a line. Fully onedimensional. Now why people don't like assuming this position is because it puts them into the fight against the mind reading circus bear. So instead they try to be the mind reading circus bear, only to always end up caught because a certain someone already knows their thoughts. Living by desire fucks you up because you always get want you want, which is what you know, which is not what you want, because what you want is to get away from what you know. The only way to beat the bear is to assume it already knows all you will do and play along; since you can't even play along properly to begin with, you'll make a mistake, and the bear can't predict that.

So after doing has been totalled, your only option is to try. And fail, but still try, and not for the failure because that's not trying. Therefore, you counterbalance speculation with practice (and viceversa). So if we're getting back to Xunzi and Girard, the aim is not to change human nature, but live exemplary; to present yourself as something others are bound to imitate and envy and work from there. A willing sacrifice of sorts. Acting knowing others will build upon you. Rather than looking for a base, you become the base. This way we can imagine Giles Cory happy.

Of course that from here to actual social engeneering it's a whole 'nother step. I think Japan could use some confessionaries. And perhaps in Stirner I can find a good counterweight to ruism, as he advocates for a philosophy (if you can call it that) of deafness, shrugging shoulders and impropriety; he always turns back the question like the gurus into "what do (You) want"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtXvDttcKgg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT9pQdYUQrE

>>9836458

you must be the guy who posted in a Heidegger thread a few weeks back. i made a list of a lot of the ideas you mentioned.

Final Fantasy 6...tell me more

>>9836684
Yeah. I want to hear about Cyan and Shadow.

File: ken wilber.jpg (38KB, 280x400px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 280x400px

>>9836627
>ug

ok i'm starting to like ug krishnamurti guy now. i didn't see it before but for whatever reason i can into this today. ug is super negative, but the negativity makes total sense, since the problem is (at least, this is what i get from it) that you wind up paralyzed by your own good intentions. you're right, of course, this is exactly what a sage
>fucking hell man there are really sages in this world. no shit. sages
*would* do for you, if he *really* had your own interests at heart: tell you to Go Fuck Yourself and in that way set yourself free.

being me, my natural tendency is to skew towards a guy like pic rel, Captain Inclusive; but this too has its faults & problems. because *if you include everyone,* and this is what seems to have happened with I-I, *then you cannot move.* all you can do is sit there and be transcendental, but you cannot transcend the transcendent. wilber just intersects nicely with chardin & other cosmic stuff that i like, for lots of reasons, even if it is several tiers below deleuze & girard & others on the utterly arbitrary & constantly shifting power rankings

basically the deal with me is that i spend a great deal of thought trying to look for pattern recognition in what everything else around me seems to want, but this in the end leaves me with very little wiggle room in either time or space to do anything other but continually run an ever-weirder diagnostic on my own thought processes. which is the kind of stuff that those nondual sages & gurus in the east are so good at turning around on you.

>Living by desire fucks you up because you always get want you want, which is what you know, which is not what you want, because what you want is to get away from what you know.
yup. exactly & 100% this.

>The only way to beat the bear is to assume it already knows all you will do and play along; since you can't even play along properly to begin with, you'll make a mistake, and the bear can't predict that.
i think you're right about this anon.

>So after doing has been totalled, your only option is to try. And fail, but still try, and not for the failure because that's not trying.
yeah.

>the aim is not to change human nature, but live exemplary; to present yourself as something others are bound to imitate and envy and work from there. A willing sacrifice of sorts. Acting knowing others will build upon you. Rather than looking for a base, you become the base
working on it. shit's hard tho! & failure is so cozy...argh.

>Of course that from here to actual social engeneering it's a whole 'nother step.
no diggity. and one i think it's better not to take, unless you're sheng-ji yang.

>a philosophy (if you can call it that) of deafness, shrugging shoulders and impropriety; he always turns back the question like the gurus into "what do (You) want"?
it was how lacan btfo'd the sphinx. same stuff. sphinxbusting is a good scene.

cheers as always for the links. the ugpill is good and so is the buddhist stuff also.

>>9836716

your fascination with A Thousand Plateaus Man intrigues me. have you read any Johannes Eckhart as a result?

File: 7b6.jpg (36KB, 726x315px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 726x315px

>>9836684
>>9836703
>Final Fantasy 6...tell me more

if you get me started talking about how much i love this game i will literally never stop talking. how about i just refer you to me being an insufferable homer in these threads in the meantime.

here it's deleuze on the baroque & leibniz & radical evil & whatever else
>>9768566

and here i am being an insufferable ff6 fanboy w/some others
https://warosu.org/vr/thread/S3717975#p3719762

i will have to make a detailed thing about all of the ways i love ff6 at some point but it would be very long.

ff6 is where i want to live, forever.

>>9836739
nope! who is?

i have to take care of a few things for a bit but i'll check in on this thread later. cheers as always gents
>now, select all images with pants
>man this place is so great

File: 24_05_2009_0664001001243161349_zeng-hao.jpg (570KB, 1024x740px) Image search: [Google]

570KB, 1024x740px

>>9836716
One question on the BwO: Is its incapability to be inscribed into other bodies something that other bodies (??) would be aware of? Because here I'm thinking of it in comparison to embodiment of Logos and the Tao as unwalkable.

If you're getting into Buddhism though, do try not to go super hard on it and take it as gospel because it'll fuck you up, which is counterproductive. You're not obligated to become a doctor for taking medicine.

File: 1500977346192.jpg (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

>>9836792
>Is its incapability to be inscribed into other bodies something that other bodies (??) would be aware of?
things to think about. i honestly don't know. my feeling here is that you are looking for a complementary desiring-machine, in a sense. mutual awareness is good. so is that ineffably beautiful phenomenon known as *shared silence.*

>Because here I'm thinking of it in comparison to embodiment of Logos and the Tao as unworkable.

>If you're getting into Buddhism though, do try not to go super hard on it and take it as gospel because it'll fuck you up, which is counterproductive. You're not obligated to become a doctor for taking medicine.
fucking hell if only you had told me that years ago. i would have saved myself a lot of headaches. it is a very difficult thing for me to do to not want to Let Me Just Fix That For You. with philosophy especially, because now, of course, you know things about the butterflies in *your* stomach, and you can have a mysteriously good idea of how the butterflies in the other guys's stomach are also working...

but this is the idea of metaphysics > politics. subtract from the field of Law and work on making yourself thoroughly conscious, sane, self-possessed...even stoic, in a way. or taoist. or metatechnical
>wat is
>not sure yet
>sounds good tho
>fixing broken existential photocopiers basically

or any of these other things. i lack the life, i think, at the moment, to be properly buddhist; i live entirely in my own head (although sadly that is now going to change for a while, which is why i may not be as active on /lit/ as previously. maybe not tho. we'll see) b/c buddhism, like zen, goes really well with *action:* all those samurai, for instance, needed to have their rooms cleaned & their metaphysical ducks in a row so that they could go out and Chop and not Get Chopped. this makes perfect sense to me. i'm just still brewing up weird potions & elixirs in the doomsday fallout shelter.

or being a lost mimic in a zone eater. pretty much the same thing.
>ff6 tho
>ff6
>so good

vaporwave? vaporwave.

File: 1382404691262.jpg (104KB, 738x960px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 738x960px

>>9836845
>i lack the life, i think, at the moment, to be properly buddhist
I think the West as a whole lacks the social structure to be properly Buddhist. Because Buddhism (and similarly Taoism) wasn't conceived to be disclosed to whole nations for them to take on themselves. There's levels and grades. So even if something like Amidism is insufferable to me, it comes to serve its purpose because if you don't have something to keep the plebs at bay they'll kill the doctrine or the doctrine will kill them. Motherfucking Luther. So keep your respectful distance if you can't go all the way in, lest you become a scavenger like SJWs and New Agers.

File: cb9977d92f337c559c5910e089ed835a--final-fantasy-vi-fantasy-series.jpg (59KB, 415x601px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 415x601px

>>9836937
>luther

this is going to become /pol/ talk but yes. buddhism, deleuze, girardian stuff, all of this are ways of dealing with essentially the blooming craziness of postmodernlife.

beyond this, or at least in one direction beyond this, lies politics. that is very much how i spent 2015-2016. once you start taking very very strong positions on that, Moldbug intensifies & much else. and for a very squishy & plasticky guy like me i think it's just better for my overall sanity to stay clear of that now.

last year: did not stay clear of it. got way way involved in what bannon/bug/trump/land/thiel et al were saying. even brett stevens. interesting stuff, but there is a very thin line between NRx & alt-right & ofc where you stand on luther is going to matter.

now i was not raised either catholic nor especially anything. the monster manual got to me before any holy text ever did. i was basically raised *derrida* and you can witness for yourself the fruit of this. a fucking disaster.

so fantasy has always been my backyard & home country. latterly learning to differentiate fantasy-as-swords-and-dragons from fantasy-as-ideology has been the goal
>altho now we are trying to thread the needle and kind of say one thing while saying the other at the same time, that is, wielding dragons to talk about ideology & ideology to talk about dragons, in the same basic story
>good idea? bad idea? we'll see

but obv we can talk for days about this. one thing that comes to mind is this notion of a major identity crisis in the West going on: people want the Good Old Days but of course we know that the Good Old Days weren't so Good. but this is where this sea-change in philosophy is happening; even the NYT published a piece today saying that intersectional feminism is too much for feminist columnists. j-pete. many others.

to me once things get political it's basically all over. i am very skeptical about large and accelerating snowball effects. but i'm also very interested in how snowballs accrue out of meme-land in the first place. that's my bag.

it's going to be messy tho. holy fuck is it all ever going to be messy. yikes. in europe and in the us.

File: c8a0ba2eae281b2e554a0a616f8a7985--book-of-shadows-law-of-attraction.jpg (79KB, 720x556px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 720x556px

>>9836982
>kefka/gogo

kefka and the mimic are perhaps in many ways functional twins; and the thing about kefka was, he didn't wear a mask...

wasn't it you who was talking about enatiodriomia just the other day?

aren't things turning into their opposites just a rule of nature?

and doesn't dostoevsky say something somewhere about the things we do in secret one day having to shout from the rooftops?

the places where quantum physics meets girardian mimetic theory meet ff6 is where i have to seriously start asking myself what, if any, problems i have with the universe, however insanely fuckface-stupid-difficult i insist upon making my own life. there are simply too many mysteriously interesting connections in the universe to want to take that frontal lobotomy just yet.

it's all just too darn interesting, i tells ya. it's all just too darn interesting.

File: 151862.jpg (52KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 500x500px

>>9837036
things to think about. what happens when mimetic desire is neither regulated, nor brutally resolved with violence and scapegoating?

it stands to reason that it might become its opposite. apparently enantiodromia is now going to be Interesting w/r/t girardian stuff.

File: 1441575789604.gif (360KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

360KB, 480x480px

>>9837036
>there are simply too many mysteriously interesting connections in the universe to want to take that frontal lobotomy just yet.
Ain't that just kinda wishful thinking though? Why do we assume we gotta die like that? Why do we think one day we'll find that life without problems? I've been thinking about it, what am I gonna do after I finish the magnum opus, 20~ years from now? I don't think I'm gonna die, and not because I wouldn't dare. After I'm done with the world... Well, maybe by that time I'll have work sort of figured and everything. Maybe I'll write some more stuff, but not seriously, which is what I always wanted to live like. What's with this bang-whimper shit? Who thought he could catch a life in a sentence?

File: hui-shi-and-gongsun-long.jpg (23KB, 640x464px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 640x464px

>>9837102
>Ain't that just kinda wishful thinking though?
not if you're exhausted, or in a state of absolute despair, as i sometimes am.

>Why do we think one day we'll find that life without problems?
personally? laziness. and nerves. it's desire, not a rational thought.

>20~ years from now?
20 years for that thing you were talking about is far too long for me.

>Maybe I'll write some more stuff, but not seriously, which is what I always wanted to live like.
this is enlightened. somehow deleuze managed to continue to keep blasting home runs even after capitalism & schizophrenia. nietzsche too. the *weirder* he got, the *better.*
>is this antifragility?

>What's with this bang-whimper shit?
clearly bang-whimper shit. i'm in an Uncomfortable Place and trying to think my way out of it w/o putting the body in motion. or, for that mind, the spirit beyond Muh Comfort Zone
>which is not exclusively /lit/, btw. altho /lit/ has been a thing for me of late. MCS is the plane of immanence which i continually attempt to reduce to fiction & continually fail. it's more of a comfortable discomfort zone. some changes have to be made to all of this. fucking spice/flow/&c.

>Who thought he could catch a life in a sentence?
kek. the guy you're talking to:

>in the south there was an eccentric named Huang Liao who asked why Heaven and earth do not collapse and crumble or what makes the wind and rain, the thunder and lightning. Hui Shi, undaunted, undertook to answer him; without stopping to think, he began to reply, touching on every one of the ten thousand things in his peroration, expounding on and on without stop in multitudes of words that never ended. But still it was not enough, and so he began to add on his astonishing assertions. What ever contradicted other men’s views he declared to be the truth, hoping to win a reputation for outwitting others.

>this was why he never got along with ordinary people. Weak in inner virtue, strong in his concern for external things, he walked a road that was crooked indeed! If we examine Hui Shi’s accomplishments from the point of view of the Way of Heaven and earth, they seem like the exertions of a mosquito or a gnat—of what use are they to other things? True, he still deserves to be regarded as the founder of one school, though I say, if he had only shown greater respect for the Way, he would have come nearer to being right. Hui Shi, however, could not seem to find any tranquillity for himself in such an approach. Instead, he went on tirelessly separating and analyzing the ten thousand things and, in the end, was known only for his skill in exposition. What a pity—that Hui Shi abused and dissipated his talents without ever really achieving anything! Chasing after the ten thousand things, never turning back, he was like one who tries to shout an echo into silence or to prove that form can outrun shadow. How sad!

>tfw

but perhaps we can still make something beautiful, if not necessarily True. that's the hope.

File: mas8oED.jpg (173KB, 810x1013px) Image search: [Google]

173KB, 810x1013px

>>9837168
>last chapter of Zhuangzi
The best. Just the best.

>>9839582
thanks

I don't like how sincere the namefag known as girardfag is therefore I will never read girard.