What is it about JP that makes atheists chimp out so much?

>>9794447
nah it is the mediocrity of a rationalist who love to think his opinions matter.

>>9794447
i know nothing about Peterson and will use this thread to ask general questions about him because I can tell you're the type of anon who won't be able to resist.

Who is Peterson and why is he all over /lit/ and youtube and wherever else? He just looks like every other meme-psued only with a 'surrogate dad' angle which has made him a fuckload of money

>>9794457
>I don't know who he is but I'm going to psychoanalyze him and the entirety of the people who like him

Yeah... sure. How about actually watching a lecture of him, instead of acting like you're Freud or Lacan on the internet.

>>9794457
>He just looks like every other meme-psued only with a 'surrogate dad' angle which has made him a fuckload of money

This is Peterson, in a nutshell. Plebs are easily impressed. He gained heaps of attention by pointing out the irrational thinking of many SJWs, especially regarding gender issues.

>>9794485
I didn't say anything about the people who watch him.

He is an atheist, and so are you. You have abandoned God and replaced him with a psychobabble idol. A mere reduction of the existent thing.

>>9794457
>new to peterson pasta

i think for someone new to peterson

the joe rogan interview is a good starting off point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE [Embed]

and this interview gives a really good overview of his thoughts and the interviewer does a great job at asking the right questions to move jordan along and explain things more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Ys4tQPRis [Embed]

after those two you could start watching the lectures for one of his two courses (personality or maps of meaning)

and just go through the back catalog of his assorted talks and interviews at your leisure (quite a few of them are on other channels, some of which you can find on his youtube playlists page but some which you cannot).

i liked this little "debate" (they largely agree, but achieve some meaningful synthesis after wrestling with each others' ideas as well) he had with a fellow professor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RCtSsxhb2Q [Embed]

>>9794447
ive only ever listened to a speech of his about cultural marxism or postmodernism, he only manages to formulate the same simpleminded boring thoughts that already circulate discourse in these dumbass communities, slightly more eloquently

>>9794500
>abandoned God
You can't abandon something that doesn't exist. You are crazy.

>>9794457
why dont you look at his shit

instead of asking about it

fucking mongoloid

>>9794543
Claims of sanity are the psychobabblist's only defence, no wonder they suffer such casualties!

>>9794551
lol i love you

JP is an atheist.
He is a sophist who appropriates religion for societal and person utility.

>>9794522
>crossover between internet psychologist dad audience and Joe Rogan audience
this doesn't surprise me at all
>all youtube shit
not a great look. I don't have any bandwidth at my disposal. Surely this guy's written something worthwhile at some point in his life hasn't he? Can you link any of that?

>>9794545
No bandwidth. Australian government made a horrible mess of our communication infrastructure.

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>>9794551
You only need one defense when the attack is so weak.

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>>9794569
wow dude you're so, like, smart and above it all. i just want to let you know that i'm personally very impressed by the haughty way you requested something anyone with a double digit IQ could find in about 10 seconds on the internet.

>>9794613
There is no attack. Psychobabblists are not an opponent, they're the pleasure workers to the real opponents.

>>9794624
The lack of confidence every believer has to face because of the lack of any evidence to back up a particular cult is enough proof of the opposite

>>9794630
No such thing as evidence exists, no such thing as proof exists. They are STEM memes and die in the fog of my Will.

The use of 'cult' as a pejorative is the fence-sitter's sole retort. They are afraid of serious dedication to their beliefs, because they would rather follow what others believe. They claim independence, but they are a school of fish in a sea-change, together in fear of the shark.

>>9794614
If you google Jordan Peterson all you get is retards arguing over whether or not refusing to exclusively use 'they' as opposed to 'he' or 'she' in an academic environment is a problem. It's clear that there's more to the man than that but it's impossible to find a straight answer because everybody who engages with the man's work seems to be retarded or perpetually assblasted.

Asking again, has the man written anything? Googling him just links to a million videos.

>>9794660
>empirical evidence doesn't exist
>if you use the term 'cult' as a pejorative then you must be a fence-sitter
Is this a /lit/ meme? I'm a newfag.

>>9794694
Those are called believers. They know things about our existence through old books and stories, yet they refuse any other (and better) source of knowledge because of emotional bonds

>>9794694
Clearly. Back to /r/eddit, you will drown here.
>>9794700
You are a believer. I have no knowledge. There is no source of knowledge; Gnostic paganism cannot live on my board. Your resent against emotion is a deep Platonist meme. You are made sick by it.

>>9794700
Listen brothers.

The earth is not a ball to which we are glued by the mystical force of "gravity", no.

The earth is flat, just as the ancient peoples believed. Heaven is above you, hell is below you.

The devil first spread the idea of a ball earth revolving around a ball sun in the ancient Babylonian and Egyptian mystery schools. These teachings were passed down to Pythagoras. They were handed down the ages to the occult mystery schools of the European Renaissance, who adopted them as their own. Then the occultists Copernicus, Kepler, Bruno, Newton, published the idea and started the "Copernican revolution".

The ancient Hermetic principle is "As Above, So Below". This has many applications. One of them is this: what people believe about the heavens above them, well determine what they believe about the earth below them. In other words, how they interpret the sky will correspond with how they interpret their own lives. Our materialist society would be impossible without a materialist cosmology to justify it. A mechanistic Newtonian cosmology justifies a mechanistic view of human life, a mechanistic politics, sociology, and economics. It sounds like a joke, but the idea that the stars are giant balls of gas reflects the modern obsession with fossil fuels / material goods in general. Copernicus wasn't going for a mechanistic religion, by the way; he was a Pythagorean and Heliolator, and hoped that the belief that the sun was at the center of the universe would usher in a return to a sun-worshipping priesthood like those of ancient societies.

The reason why the Devil spreads the idea of the ball earth is that it totally overturns mans relationship to the world. Instead of man being a spiritual being with heaven above him and hell below him; instead he stands on a ball where there are infinitely many ups and downs, where heaven isn't "above" but only "outside" the earth - moral and epistemological relativism, infinitely many points of view.

>>9794447

>and this is POWERFUL man...we used to be CHIMPS for goodness sake! you see, the thing about abstraction is.... *sips water* ...well...you are SO bloody complicated...I mean REALLY complicated eh?

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Peterson upsets atheists because he can meet them on their ground and show how they're insufficient. Theology as a discipline among believers is godawful. For a long time, believers were basically importing the entire substructure of scientific rationality into their theology and then trying to justify their theology on scientific terms. This is how you get the "god of the gaps" that Dawkins, for instance, criticizes (and is right to criticize). This is the idea that God makes manifest his will only in the gaps between our scientific knowledge (i.e., it's a naive belief in miracles). Unsophisticated believers (which, let's be honest, are the vast majority of them) accept this mistaken view of God. Believers who defend, for example, creation science implicitly accept that the only way to understand the world is scientific. When it turns out that the Bible is not scientific, as Dawkins and Harris rightly claim, the believers are defeated; the problem, though, is that they've been pwned from the start. They were already infected by their opponents memes.

What Peterson does is not quite reverse this relationship* but approach it from a different angle. He is able to justify theological ideas on reasonable terms; that is, he shows that what we consider to be myths or dogma are actually rational strategies for surviving in a hostile, uncaring world (which Peterson refers to as chaos). You see this in the first Sam Harris podcast, where Peterson begins by telling Sam Harris that he (Harris) is insufficiently Darwinian. Peterson's point is that Harris doesn't understand the contribution to survival effected by the teachings of the Bible but just thinks that it's a set of propositions that we can either slough off now that we don't believe in God or just distill down to a sort of "be good and don't be bad" message (which is what Harris seems to do to Buddhism, which is a weird and shitty way to approach a tradition, but whatever.) Atheists are not used to losing on their own ground like this but, rather, are used to making theists lose on their own.

Harris does, I think, have a point when he asks Peterson, "Well, what's specifically Christian about this?" I wonder, too; Peterson's reading of the Bible, for instance, is persuasive as psychology but not as persuasive as a reading of Scripture. There is something a little impious about the way Peterson interprets the Bible.

*A real reversal of this relationship would be Nietzsche, who says that scientific rationality is Christianity denuded of the baggage of God. See the role that honesty and probity play both in the confessional and in the laboratory, as well as the popular morality of the liberal societies which are buttressed by science.

I don't understand your point, OP. Peterson is an atheist himself. He doesn't literally believe in the Nicenian creed. His disagreements with other atheists boil down to whether religion is useful or not.

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>>9794457
Because he tells the Drumpflets what they want to hear

If Peterson had a theme song what would it be?

I think this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQXfexNVPSs

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>>9794776
>who blames all the world's problems on "postmodernism" despite the fact that you have shown time and time again that you don't actually understand postmodern thinking or philosophy

These memes don't work with garbage like this.

>>9794797
>he's so mad he forgot his argument

>>9794797
>this mad his nu-christian pseudo lost

>>9794801
Inserting something like that in a meme is out of place. You can't accuse someone of not knowing the definition of something without providing it beforehand, but if you did, it wouldn't be a meme. Its a low-brow attack made by someone who is unable to convey why he disagrees with JP so he just says he has the wrong definition.

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>>9794457
People on /lit/ like to think they're smarter than Peterson and hate on him to be contrarian only because of how popular he has gotten in the past year.

This is how 4chan has always worked.

>>9794797
This image is so good. So inspired. So lit senpai

He is for losers who never had a dad and think clean your room is actual wisdom and not something you should have learned on your own.

His ideas on postmodernism are literally from the 80s and the isues already resolved.
He ignorantly conflates marxist grandnarrative and postmodernism

>>9794447

>why does JP make atheists chimp out

because he shatters daddy dawkins' meme that atheists have a monopoly over reason/rationality

>>9794569
Maps of Meaning

>>9794569
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=wL1F22UAAAAJ&hl=en

>>9794667
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=wL1F22UAAAAJ&hl=en

and Maps of Meaning

>>9794943
It's sad really. Talk about casting your pearls before swine....

>>9794943

This.

shilling multiple threads is annoying.

search the catalogue for peterson threads before you start another

>>9794776

>Sam Harris which you ultimately lose

That's all you need to know about the motivation behind this sort of post.

>truth consists of correlations between the internal and external variables of a system, i.e. abstract models and empirical data.

Correlations are ubiquitous throughout the universe; why would mere correlations amount to anything meaningful?

Surely, meaningful information must be defined by some standard and considering the fact that we are biological organisms, why not allow that standard to be survival, with meaninful information either directly or potentially-indirectly increasing the probability of survival?

>herp derp
>cannot compute
>'truth can't have anything to do with life' ad infinitum

>>9796542
t. hasn't read any criticism of pragmatism

>>9796590
>t. hasn't posted any and hasn't read any either except for wikipedia

>>9796631
thanks for proving my point. you aren't aware of the criticisms so you bash me for not spoonfeeding you them

>>9796646
thanks for proving my point, you aren't aware of the criticisms so you haven't posted any

>so you bash me
crymoar

>>9796651
why continue replying to me if you're not going to add anything new to the conversation? that's not very pragmatic of you

>>9796654
>hehe this will surely obscure the fact that i still haven't posted any criticism

>>9796590

Hello.

This:

>>9796631
>>9796651

Is not the author of this >>9796542

That would be me.

The only real criticism of pragmatism I can really see, is that it is a little hazy, especially around notions such as belief vs truth.

I have read criticisms and have not found any to be particularly damning.

If you'd like to provide a link(s) to something you feel skewers pragamtism, then I'd be very interested and grateful.

>>9796701

I've just re-read Russell's comments on James, and I still cannot see anything drastically wrong; Russells criticisms seem to be begging the question, in that they rely on the prior acceptance of an opposing view of truth, before one can accept them.

They seem to all boil down to an intense dislike of the hazy and quasi-indeterminate nature of pragmatic truth, which is simply a subjective preference.

Even the 'number of hairs' argument fails to acheive anything, in that it just highlights the obvious fact that there are an almost infinite number of meaningless correlations existing in the universe at any one time; again, with meaning (truth) and significance being well defined concepts within pragmatist thought.

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>>9794491
Yet how many men had the courage to say it out loud in public?

>>9794781
Good pick, but I'd go with Shadilay.

>>9794447
Atheists are basically going to die out because they only have 1 child on average while religious folks have 4+ on average

>>9796985
that average is boosted by third worlders.

>>9794500
Both JP and myself believe in the divinity of life. If that's atheism, then FUCK YEAH ATHEISM, and fuck your fantasy.

>>9797311
nah it's true for first world whites as well.

>>9797340
they turn atheist faster than they reproduce.

>>9794797
>promotes a hedonistic lifestyle

>>9797348
That's only now that atheism is cool. Next ideology will replace it.

>>9794943
Not to mention he popped up on /lit/ regularly for a few years before he got popular. Basically imagine if Sadler exploded in popularity out of nowhere, /lit/ would hate him and start calling him a pseud overnight.

>>9797795
someone was posting his maps of meaning course lectures like 3 years ago

/lit/ doesn't exactly hate JP. There happens to be a vocal group that does. I imagine the same group tries to do so over on /pol/ with less success (as their noise drowns in shit/gold flow)

>>9794776
This is a lot more accurate than

>>9794797
This

However both are funny.

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So I like JP, I am not a Christian but I do believe in evolutionary psychology and the evolution of Ethics. I also believe that you cant simply throw away religion and keep the axioms of it's ethics. Also after watching JP's lectures on his book I bought these to understand them better, because I really dislike how he pushes a Christian narrative, I still like the guy but I am not about to take him at his word. Where does that put me?

>>9797962
He only uses christianity mainly cause the west is mainly christian. Now and historically. And cause the myths in bible are some of the oldest stories. Only the truly meaningful stories survive thousands of years. Meta stories.

He uses other myths outside christianity too.
T. Phone poster

Does Peterson have any videos on how to stop compulsively masturbating to increasingly bizarre snuff scenarios?

>>9798175
CLEAN

>>9798215
YOUR

>>9794447
your pic related is inaccurate, really he would make asinine observations about nietzsche for two or three minutes, then he would segue into talking about carl jung, find some way to insert dostoyevsky in there, and he would finish off by btfoing postmodernism/nihilism by saying something or other about pain

>>9798280
>pic related is inaccurate
that's literally the title of the video
you might just learn something by giving it a view
no one takes dr. peterson haters seriously because they say stupid shit like this and immediately disqualify themselves

>>9798230
ROOM

>>9796828
Thousands, if not millions.

Fuck, bash on SJWs and trannies all you want I guess, it's no skin off my nose, but don't pretend as if it's something new or novel to do.

>>9798432
>thousands, if not millions
I doubt it is in the millions. He is fighting 'the establishment' out there in public.
Sure, you have your Hugh Munguses here and there.

>>9798453
There's a huge swathe of them on Youtube, and sure only a tiny percentage of them are anywhere as educated as Peterson, which makes him somewhat novel, but that's still hundreds to thousands of people spilling hours of audio/video onto one of the most-accessed websites, owned by one of the largest corporations on the planet. That's as public as anything gets.

Then there are things like Breitbart and Infowars, which themselves have preposterous followings - if I recall correctly, they have larger readerships/viewerships than any other journalistic outlet.

Point being, bashing SJWs isn't the noteworthy thing about Peterson. His comparative level of education and willingness to bring a mostly academic level of discussion to really bizarre components of the culture war (Pepe) are what really make him stand out.

>>9794731
Theology is fine, it is STEMturds that ruin it. What they do is not 'theology'. There is no God in their world.

>>9796701
Pragmatism is garbage because it still puts the Meme Truth on a pedestal.

>>9797337
>humanism is good because I FUCKG LOVE SCIENCE LMAO
There is no fantasy, only existence. You do not believe in divinity, you believe in humanist memes.

>>9797962
>i believe in psychobabble

I see a Peterson thread, I post.

>>9794447
>Edgy US freshmen, the thread

>>9794660
Bro you or someone like you called atheism a cult earlier.

>>9798466
>on Youtube
Indeed. Not on workplaces, not on public seminars, not on court, not in the mainstream media...

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>>9794776
>>[...] and actually voice a lot of opinions that be be considered postmodern
>jordan peterson
>the man who came up with the meta-narrative to end all other meta-narratives (maps of meaning)
>the man who believes in objective truth, objective fact, objective morality and objective reality
>somehow a postmodernist because postmodernists say so

lmao. Nice try.

>>9800029
jew

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>>9794447
Because they don't bother to listen to and understand the arguments.

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>>9794731
As Zizek said "Only a Christian can truly be an atheist."

more pressing question: when do be ban leafs and amerifats?

>>9794457
He's just part of the bandwagon of celebrity pseuds who just focus on the most base and most triggering issues to further their own popularity.

Anyone with half a brain cell can see the SJW are a bunch of lunatics. So you just place them in the 'people to avoid and ignore at all times' category and move on. Just bringing up the same pointless discussions just fans the flames, distracting everyone from the grander and more important issues we face.

>>9794491
It's important he did that because not many in Western academia do that.because it is not PC..

>>9803346
There is a bandwagon in academia of the West to attack cultural marxism, pc and SJWism?

Where?

>>9803346

>Anyone with half a brain cell can see the SJW are a bunch of lunatics. So you just place them in the 'people to avoid and ignore at all times' category and move on

So ignore them and they will go away?

True in some cases, but this suppression of politically incorrect or unpopular ideas has been going on for 30 years already.

As for your claim of it 'fanning the flames'. I can understand that's it's frustrating to watch two schoolyard kids thumbing their noses at each other, or just doing it for the lulz, but there needs to be a little more opposition to thought policing.

>>9798453
>He is fighting 'the establishment' out there in public.
He is not fighting the establishment, he's fighting internet warriors.
Chomsky is rolling in his grave right now

>>9794457
He's an actually intelligent psychologist with some interesting ideas that made the mistake of getting too involved in culture wars and as a result he and his senpai base have become cringeworthy.

>>9794447
If I publicly deride marginalized groups in a fruity manner will I become rich?

yes

>>9803544
30 years? what kind of state-inquiry or blacklists were set up? because I only remember that happening to the marxists you hate so much.

>>9803511
>>9803544
not the guy you were replying to, but on the internet (i assume he was speaking of a bandwagon of "internet celebritiy" pseuds) the anti-pc movement is way bigger than "SJWism" ever was. look at litteraly any sjw/feminism related youtube channel, they always have either like 5k views, or they get discovered by "anti-pc" crowd and there are like 90% dislikes... meanwhile there are countless enlightened rational skeptic anti-pc intelectuals pointing out obvious flaws in their ideology and getting milions of views.

>>9804230
He just said bandwagon in his post.

PC and social justice has spread to overblown governments of Western nations. You cannot understate how large it is.

Trump election was a referendum on it and it was hopefully change for better.

>>9804164
Anon, I don-t know you so I can-t possibly care about you in any meaningful way but I really want you to stop and consider that the thing you just posted might possibly be the most twitter-ish thing you could have written in that moment. It really sounded like a slightly more elaborate version of "YASS QUEN SLAYYYY". Don't you think it's an issue when snark is such a part of your way of communicating that it seeps into your personality?

>>9804230
>but on the internet
The fact that you have to resort to a description of how things are on the internet instead of facing what the real world is tells me that you are perfectly aware of the point the earlier posters were making.

>>9804283
trump won, even though he was objectively a bad candidate, precisely because a large majority of people are anti-pc/sjw

i will admit that the pc/sjw movement is somewhat prevalent in certain goverments and liberal universities, but i feel like you are overstating its influence.

>>9804301
i resorted to the internet, because peterson is mostly only famous on the internet, irl hes pretty much unknown

>>9804410
Nonsense. Hillary wasn't pro-SJW or anything. Trump won because he was better at lying to working class Americans than she was.

>>9804410
>precisely because a large majority of people are anti-pc/sjw

More people voted for Hillary than Trump.

>>9794711
Why can I see the curvature of the Earth when I stand on a tall mountain then?

>>9804295
u just gotta keep it real

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>>9804164
You assume that some groups shouldn't be marginalized

>>9805577
Cultural marxism was a mistake.

>>9805577

Damn that picture is messed up.

>>9801087
>>the man who came up with the meta-narrative to end all other meta-narratives (maps of meaning)
You can't divide the atom, the end goal of mankind is communism etc.
I guess people take him for a postmodernist due to him noticing that there is an infinite amount of ways the objective reality can be understood.

>>9805577
marginalization might solve it or will it obviously just make it worse and their marginalization is obviously the obvious reason that they act that way to begin with obviously, you fucking brainless cunt

which could it be? we just don't know

Why is it that so many ignore the fact that truth and good/bad are not related, at all.

Even if every single atheist is the most evil, gay, communist, pedophile there is, it has no influence on the fact whether god exists or not.
If your religion is the greatest thing there is and the world would flourish and prosper if everyone accepted it, it would still not make it true.

Atheist or Theism is not a choice, it is something you have no influence over.

>>9807338
Some people get a bit nervous if things don't have absolute meaning.

>>9807338
fuk u! u can larp ur way to catholic heaven!

pol are the new furfags

The fun thing about JP is he is well read enough to have access to true master morality and he exposes what it's really about. Whether he really possesses it himself or not is another story but he at least exudes a sense of such in his talks because he is very familiar with the works of the masters. But what's fun is that the thing that it is, which he exposes, kills BOTH the libtards and poltards.

Is everyone equal? NO
Are hierarchies necessary? valuable? YES
Is hating women and the weak in general pathetic? YES
Are lgbt libtards misdirected kids who need to get responsible and clean their rooms? YES
Are nationalist poltards missing the point of nationalism and? YES
Are both groups no better than cults of ressentiment? YES
Must you become a monster to fight monsters and eventually be a light, not a blight on humanity? YES

>>9794447
▲
▲ ▲

>>9796828
Interesting quote, do you recommend some essential Bin Laden core?