Why Are Writers So Fucked Up?

Dostoyevsky was borderline? So was my ex. What a nightmare that was.

>>9756067
A lot of people are pretty fucked up, but you only notice it when it's someone important, like family or a celebrity. My guess is that the good writers are fucked up, and that is what gives them the push to be good writers, above the lofty faggots who have never seen struggle in their entire life. Like how we probably have more English majors right now than there were 'college' level people in 1600, but there's substantially less worthwhile literature being produced.

>fucked up
pretty subjective. some of these people sound pretty fucking awesome to me.

>>9756067
>ywn be a good writer unless you're a suicidal addict

>>9756106
Well desu I laughed when I read Jonathan Swift wrote a treatise on excrement under the pen name "Dr. Shit".

>>9756067
>Emily Dickinson: Agoraphobic
good lord
the nutcase

>>9756067
Nabokov wasn't a pedophile.

>>9756194
aint foolin anyone, he was merely completing a cycle his uncle started, he loved to dissect their genitals, you know, the nymphs?

the butterfies. the girls.

>>9756067
Outcasts and misfits are more likely to become introspective and critical of the popular social order. Those who thrive in it are less likely to write against it or propose new and controversial ideas which could lead to upheaval. The out group has the special talent of analyzing and criticizing the in group.

I have lived with lots of different strangers from all backgrounds and different professions, and I can safely say not one of them was sane. People are all fucked up and broken, stop romanticising it as artistic.

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>>9756228
This.
We're living in a madhouse desu

>>9756067
You forgot Joyce's scat fetish

>>9756067
“Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.”


― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

>>9756460
So he was arrogant, too.

>>9756460
>>9756490
>a character's words = the writer's beliefs
You are dumb

>I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

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>>9756067
>Boccaccio: Failed at fucking - turned full-blown woman-hater
>Montaigne: Hid in a tower for 10 years
>Voltaire: Chronically constipated frog, drank 50 cups of tea a day, spent16 hours a day in bed writing.
>Jean Jacques Rousseau: Admitted to being an exhibitionist
>Byron: Sex-maniac, even fucked his half-sister
>Edgar Allan Poe: Depressed, alcoholic drug addict who married a 13 yo
>Nabokov: Paedophile narcissist
>Virgil: Weakling manlet, once held a lavish funeral for a pet fly. Died after being in the sun a bit.
>Emily Dickinson: Agoraphobic
>Lewis Carroll: Pedo
>Mark Twain: Bitter fucker, smoked up to 40 cigars a day
What's the problem? It's 4chan - the thread.
>tfw you will never hold Emily Dickinson in your arms lean her a bit backwards and tug gently at her pubic hair

>>9756134
Holy shit I laughed for ten solid minutes after reading this.

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>>9756067
>Virgil: Weakling manlet, once held a lavish funeral for a pet fly. Died after being in the sun a bit.

Jack London a suicide? No prokf

*proof

>>9756522
It still is a quote from Dosty, and a good one at that.

>>9756067
>Suicides
May I just say that suicides by artist often disappoint me?
You are a creative being so why not make your suicide a little more artistic.
The gun to the head, rope in the garage, Oding on whatever drug you currently are hooked on is dull and has been done so many times.
If you go out, go out with a bang.

>It is better to burn out than to fade away

This thread needs to be preserved.

>>9756829
people who decide to die lose interest in going out in style and choose whatever is at hand or the path of least resistance. Many serious suicide attempts even end up without a suicide note.

>>9756829
>hey I want to end this terrible existence as soon as possible so let's do it in a way that will impress a faggot on an Armenian stamp collecting subreddit
How about you go out with a bang instead?

>>9756839
https://whyarewriterssofuckedup.wordpress.com/

>>9756067
>Dickens: ....Said his characters introduced themselves to him in his sleep.

I'm okay with this.

>>9756877
>don't take "bang" literal even if a svbied death would make Hemingay a lot cooler
Drown yourself, shot in the heart, knife wound, falling of significant place (if building or jsut location), self imulation (incredibly fascinating death), sallekhana, ...

I do realize how stupid this is.
People don't commit suicide because their work will somehow gain esteem after death,
but I truly wonder how so many genius men decided to take their own life and didn't think of a way that would perhaps hold personal meaning to their life or even their works (if they haven't come around to hate it yet).
For example: Hemingway wore his Gott Mit Uns Belt when he pulled the trigger but really only did it because he was sick and had been diagnosed with different diseases.
It was a very conscience act and was something that weighed on his mind a lot.

is there any evidence nabokov was actually a pedo?

>>9756829

>even considering suicide an option, ever

baka desu senpai

>>9756944
check out his internet search history

>>9756951
when you grow old without any serious loved ones and your body starts hurting you can tell me suicide is baka

>>9756067
How many writers have comitted suicide in the 21st century? You are talking about writers who lived in a different time from now and therefore they had different problems than we people have nowadays.

>>9756965
>How many writers have comitted suicide in the 21st century?
Not nearly enough

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There's also a rumor Dostoevsky raped a really young girl. Turgenev (who called him "the Russian de Sade) claims he confessed it to him, but he hated big D because of his political views, so who knows?

IIRC, as the story goes, Dostoevsky was writing an article about some girl who was being mistreated by her parents, or her stepparents, guardians, whatever, and as a result, the authorities took her away. One day, Dostoevsky meets her out in the street and picks her up and forces himself on her.

Don't know if it's true, but it does add a certain eeriness to Stavorgin's confession in Demons.

>>9756986
He used the raped child as a common theme of suffering in his books, so perhaps

>>9756986
there's also a rumor that he killed an old lady and the whole point of c&p is to tell himself that murderers sometimes have normal underlying personalities and aren't necessarily evil

>>9756829
Mishima did it right

>>9756951
confirmed for never experiencing recurring physical pain

To try for a career in writing you have to be mentally disturbed.

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>born into wealthy upper class family
>becomes mentally ill after reading marx due to guilt for his privilege
>tries to become a man of the people by being a vulgar communist and spending all his money on alcohol and whores
>tries to commit suicide when the working class hates him for being snobby no matter how vulgar he tries to be
>enrolls in university and drops out immediately to run away with a geisha
>attempts double suicide by drowning with another girl a week later, who dies, while he goes on to marry the geisha
>writes a few books, then tries to hang himself, but fails and develops morphine addiction instead
>gets locked up in a mental hospital due to addiction, while his wife cucks him with his best friend
>after being released, he learns about the cuckoldry and attempts double suicide with wife, both survive, then divorce
>becomes severely alcoholic, destroying his health
>cucks mishima's literary ambitions by writing better novels despite being an ugly, unhealthy, depressed leftist, ultimately causing mishima's suicide
>finally succeeds at double suicide by drowning with a young mistress, killing both

>>9756454
Nah he was just an assman

>>9757130
damn that guy's life was truly dramatic

>>9756067
Did Fitzgerald really have a tiny dick? Source?

>>9756445
This post reminded me to watch Happiness thanks

>>9756067
>Gustave Flaubert: Pessimistic asshole, hated everyone and everything, FRANKED a young Turkroach boy


Franked mean killed or fucked?

>>9756067
Im dying, you're ripping a hole into everybody lmao

>>9756067
>Balzac: Crazy bastard, glutton, lived life in dressing gown
based
>>9757430
fugged

>>9756829
Alfonsina Storni did it best

>>9756067
Deleuze has written on this but I forget what he said.

>>9756067
These are all famous persons so of course [we're] well aware of their weaknesses. Something further seems to prevent most all of these persons from becoming 'adults' in the traditional sense. I mean, was Nietzsche an adult? Flaubert? Even Hume or Kant? A certain alien love or generosity not only seems to prevent this from ever occuring, but also seems to leave literary folks vulnerable to the adult populations at large.
I love these people. I don't care how 'fucked up' they are. They are 'bright blots upon this gloomy scene' to mar a Shelley quote.

>>9756067

And look what they've contributed to humanity. You're missing the point.

>>9756067
>no burroughs

Fucking lmao

>>9756134
>treatise on excrement
source/link?

>>9756067
Debord: drunkard then suicide
Otto Weininger: suicide
Lautreamont: suicide

>>9756067
>why are writers imperfect human beings, unlike me and everyone I know

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Berryman jumped off a bridge but hit the concrete and then drowned while conscious in a puddle

JUST

Also you missed

Milton - Literally went fucking blind
William Blake - Most likely schizophrenic

>>9756067
To solve the problem of meaningless in a Godless world they become hedonists, romantics, leftists, nihilists, degenerates etc.

The trend of the "mad poet" only started in the mid-18th century. Before that there are virtually no writers who had any mental problems. It was probably the rising rationalism and atheism and the consequent rise of romanticism of the 18th century that deranged the minds of our artists. Modernism and post-modernism are really just forms of romanticism.

>>9756067
>Ran away from his wife aged 82.
kek

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>>9757804
>Modernism and post-modernism are really just forms of romanticism.

>Before that there are virtually no writers who had any mental problems

>>9757816
Anglo Modernism's big memes were basically ideas borrowed from Romantic writers and critics, stemming ultimately from Poe via the French Symbolists, especially the ideas of the individuality and originality of the artist, art for art's sake, and the focus on ennui and fragmentation. One of the major ideas of twentieth century poetry and novels is the idea that form should be "natural" instead of "artificial", first developed by Coleridge.

And yes, most writers of the past couldn't be depressed because God solved all existential issues and they were almost always high-class.

Pynchon: Pedophile

>>9757804
bicameral theory, checkmate atheists

>>9757841
[citation needed]
>who is Hesiod
>what are the four temperaments

>>9756067
>Chaucer

John Green: OCD, banged countless number of teenagers

>>9757804
bullshit, fucking garbage
although i will agree that it's certainly become that way to some people

Counterpoint: Germans.

Goethe: Worked his way up into local government, traveled for years on the state's dime, got a medal from Napoleon, died old and content
Schiller: Best mate of Goethe, productive years together, taken too soon by tuberculosis
Grass: got the Nobel Prize, widely famous, politically influential on the left, died content of old age after revealing some minor Nazi involvement as a kid

>>9757804
>>9757841
your words seem full of random assertions, m8

isn't the simpler explanation just that urbanisation, literacy, printing technology advancements, and education all increased dramatically between the 17th and 19th centuries?

>>9757972

>Grass: got the Nobel Prize

So did Thomas Mann, and yet you seem to have forgotten to include him. I wonder why?

>>9756067
>Herman Melville: Had a mental breakdown in 1855

Really?

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>>9756067
>Mark Twain: Bitter fucker, smoked up to 40 cigars a day

Fite me irl, faggot

>>9757986
So did Hesse, Boell, Heyse, Mommsen, Mueller, too lazy to write it all out

>>9758006

I know you're cherry-picking on purpose you dope.

Just stop.

>>9758012
>OP's copypasta cherrypicks on purpose
>anon defends the pasta

what a great thread

>>9758017

>try to make a counterpoint specifically about germans as though they're devoid of abnormal writers
>gets pissy when anon doesn't let him krautlarp

what a great poster

>>9757972
Goethe died 'content' because he was able to complete everything he set out to complete. Have you read the Italian Journey? Goethe was able to put on a face, but he most always felt like a stranger in a strange land.

>>9758034
>italian journey

is it gud? i want to read something that isn't tedious bullshit but i haven't had luck lately pretty much every "literary" piece of shit i've picked up lately fuckin sucks

>>9757972
Hölderlin: went mad after the death of his beloved, lived in a tower for the rest of his life
Nietzsche: we all know the story... sent a letter to Cosima Wagner after his breakdown, addressed her as Ariadne and signed it 'Dionysos'

>>9758047
Was hölden's best before or after the death

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Georg Trakl

>became drug addict and dropped out of school at age 14
>constantly banged his young sister, without reprieve, and wantonly lusted after her in licentious poems
>took a job at a pharmacy to get access to drugs, was constantly high
>intermittent bouts of depression and panic-inducing fear of humans, mixed with periods of euphoria, inflamed by incestuous lust
>died of cocaine overdose in a hospital, whither he was committed after failed suicide attempt (only one day before wittgenstein arrived to save him)

>>9756067
Carroll and Nobakov weren't pedophiles.

Add Toole to the suicides.

>>9757735
This

>>9758198
Yeah, they were virpeds but Carroll really walked a fine line.

>>9758159
why was fin-de-siecle Austria so fucking degenerate?

>>9758251
>fin-de-siecle
THIS WAS THE WORD I WAS LOOKING FOR THE WHOLE PAST WEEK THANK YOU ANON YOU ARE A GODSEND
POST MORE BULLSHIT IN CASE THEY TELL ME SOMETHING I WANT TO KNOW BUT DON'T KNOW I WANTED

>>9756460
>>9756782
don't fool yourself, that's a super masturbatory quote.

>>9758259
no problem anon, but I don't think I have any more neat phrases for you

>>9758251
>degenerate
Stormcuck, please go.

>>9758251
did u just read man without qualities? your post reminds me of it

>>9758267
it really truly applies in this case, go read up on fin-de-siecle vienna

>>9756692
God Almighty. After reading much of her poetry, I wanted to fuck her so goddamn badly. Please don't remind me.

>>9758301
If you're watching cells in a microscope, you may use the word "degeneration".


>>9758398
She is just sex. Imagine how many men and dykes who have fapped to her.

>>9756067
Because normies do not write.

>>9756067

Much of this can be explained by a blend of introversion and suffering and crazy which are necessary to create great art in this medium. But there's something else. The something else is that large, variegated portions of humanity, have always been, and are now, just as fucked up. The difference is that up until very, very recenty, this other mass didn't leave much of a written record of how fucked up they were, or are.

For proof that everyday human beings in a sufficiently large population are also just as fucked up, I refer you to the book "Wisconsin Death Trip".

The moderately fucked up people of the world are by and large not writers, not people who have their writings survive and become notable in the future.

>>9757986
Goethe had realy intense phases of depressions and sometimes locked himself in for weeks
you are right about Schiller tho, I mean he had some problems about the rise of materialism but he never got seriously depressed, altough ofc he was weak and very sick from a young age and had phases of extreme pain, so I guess there is that

>>9757972
>Grass
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/08/snake_in_the_grass.html

>>9758017
>>9756228
>>9756445

And to anyone else who thinks that everyone's as insane as these writers, let me tell you about the middle class.

They get up, they have their fruit smoothie, put on their vibrams and go to work while listening to a meditation podcast.

At work they have a standing desk and drink special coffee. Back at home they watch some health documentary and get into bed at 10pm.

They're completely unaware of the pain and suffering of the poor. They're leftist because of their naivete, they give money to the homeless because they think the homeless man was failed by the system, the think "why can't we all just be well off?"

Poor people live a complete different life. Every day is a constant battle towards 5pm, when you get to go home and drink yourself numb, and every week is just waiting till the weekend, when you can finally get so fucked up on cocaine you'll forget the week even happened. Try 20 years of that and see how you turn out.

>>9758693
"The intelligent poor individual was a much finer observer than the intelligent rich one. The poor individual looks around him at every step, listens suspiciously to every word he hears from the people he meets; thus, every step he takes presents a problem, a task, for his thoughts and feelings. He is alert and sensitive, he is experienced, his soul has been burned...''

>>9758714
>the intelligent poor
Oxymoron.

>>9758720
>He thinks Hamsun was wrong
Fuck off faggot
Come back when you have a Nobel prize... that you eventually mail to Goebbels, lol

>>9756067
why else would they write

>>9758720
Exactly, it's rare. If you're born into a wealthy family and are intelligent nobody gives a fuck except employers.

If you're poor and someone still managed to create something of value, it's infinitely more valuable because it's not a product of the environment but rather a product of an individual.

>>9756093
I would unironically upvote this comment

>>9757130
Whats up with so many double suicides?
Was he really good at convincing people?

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>>9758770
It's a completely different process to begin with.

It's the "norm" for the rich to be somewhat well educated, and by this I mean they often go to top tier schools, have a lot more spare time. That doesn't guarantee anything though. Look at Business schools that teach entrepreneurship, etc. Yes, it will likely teach them how to run a mediocre business, or write a mediocre book, but it does not mean they'll create a masterpiece, or a billion dollar company.
I watched an interview with Peter Thiel the other day at some business school, and he essentially said, "Pretty much all of you here have 0 creativity and are simply following what your peers are doing"

The poor on the other hand are less educated, but the pressure of being poor, starving, alone, not being able to afford distractions, etc, provides the required pressure, and just the right amount of it. They are most likely self taught, and often times need "success", or something at all, to stay afloat.

Now obviously, there are many poor folks who attempt to write a great book and fail, and probably end up dead in a ditch somewhere along the way, but a select few make it through. And by "make it through", I mean either their work struck a chord with a large audience at some point, or they managed to stay alive some other way. Where as the rich folk aren't really "playing for real", since many of them have something to fall back on, and subconsciously they know it. It's different when you are playing for real, you can test this in a number of ways yourself (pretend gambling vs. real, etc)

>“Rather than admire the mediocre great men over whom passersby nudge each other in awe, I venerate the young, unknown geniuses who die in their teens, their souls shattered - delicate, phosphorescent glowworms that one must see to know they really did exist.”

To think how many failed attempts there must have been, unknown writers/artists/whatever, some of them probably geniuses who remain unknown forever, work lost forever, dead forever.

The greatest novel in the world is probably sitting in someones basement, or lost, or discarded after the author died/went crazy/gave up trying/bought a boat/became a monk.

Akutagawa also committed suicide when his physical and mental health deteriorated. Kawabata was haunted by Mishima's ghost and most likely killed himself as well. Tanizaki was a degenerate masochist foot fetishist.

>>9757781
>Milton - Literally went fucking blind

From all the weird and despicable shit in his life you had to choose to say blindness.

>>9758242
Carrol had a box full of pedo shit, the found it.

>>9758807
Man you really like Hamsun. Where to start with him? Hunger?

>>9756067
It's a reverse causal relation

>>9758859
Well, it still fascinates me that he was able to write Paradise Lofffffffttttttt while blind. The poet who can't see... shit

>>9758892
I'm reading Hunger again so he's on my mind at the moment. I would start with Growth Of The Soil, probably.

>>9758907
I said it once

>>9758950
What?

>>9757258
I don't remember which writer friends of his it was, but he lead Fitzgerald to a park in Paris to look at Roman statues to convince him that these great men also had micropenises.

>>9756067
J N Morgan: Drunkard, hates feminism, rape fetish, chubby chaser, attempted suicide, something of a recluse, might have had a kid but never confirmed if it was his or not, cut himself off from family

>>9758471
Hard to imagine that Hitchens wrote such a butthurt meaningless piece of crap.

>>9758714
Now this is just romanticising the poor.

>>9758901
>reverse causal relation
This and everyone else who pointed it out.

Ask yourself what are the mental habits and lifestyles of people who eventually become writers and why neurotics are overrepresented here.

I bet all the people posting here are all normal and well adjusted adults.

If you look at the 'write what's on your mind' threads there's plenty of crazy shit.
Atleast These weirdos left something good behind.

>implying killing yourself isn't the most sane thing you can do

>>9756067
honestly pre-20th century there wasn't much of a romantic link between art and mental illness. i'm not saying it's purely invented, your examples are pretty solid for the most part, but a good deal of it is made up of pattern seeking. being an artist is a craft. writing is a craft. framing it as some innate gift or a tragic byproduct of mental illness is a cheap and effective sales technique milked by nearly every artist ever.

the reality is more often that there's nothing that special about artists, at least compared to the art they produce. there are definitely a lot of reasonable sounding explanations for why art might appeal to mentally ill people, but in my experience that's mostly been bullshit or exaggerated to, again, sell shit.

screwed up people are attracted to writing because they can't really make it in any other profession, it's one of the few areas where their bizarre ideas are rewarded.

Happy people can't make good art. Most of them never attempt anything like it to begin with.

>>9759644
Where is he wrong about Grass?

>>9758732
>Come back when you have a Nobel prize... that you eventually mail to Goebbels, lol
What a cuck! He should've been shot for that.

>>9758693
DESU, the poor needs ot get organized. Also, it's right to give money to beggars.

>>9760574
Tl;dr of the article
>[Grass is] something of a bigmouth and a fraud, and also something of a hypocrite.
He might be right, but how does it matter? This reads like a Dailymail article

>>9758693
>blow all your money on booze and cocaine
>wonder why you are poor

Edgar Allan Poe married his first cousin btw

>>9756067
Because they're human. Everyone is fucked up. Look just how many musicians are overdosed addicts.

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>>9757130
>>9758808
>>9757001

Oh I'm Japanese and I had a bad day, I think I'm gonna kill myself

>>9760627
Being poor is expensive. Loans, credit cards...

>>9756067
>Li Bai: Drunken chink who drowned to death trying to grab the moon’s reflection in the water from his boat
Patrish

>>9758042
It's rather quiet, but I liked it. Auden's translation is solid. He literally escapes his responsibilities by leaving Weimar in the middle of the night without telling a soul. Basically a literary travelogue.

>>9756067
This looks like OC.

Saved

>>9756692
>>9758398
>>9758440
cot damn she was homely. doesn't matter. I'd tongue her asshole just on principle. not even a poetryfag but damn the woman could write.

>>9756975
kekkles

>>9757657
the voice of reason

>>9758442
this

>>9760421
>tripfag
nice try, normie

Thomas Ruggles Pynchon: cartoons, doobies and limericks

Because language is a chasm opening up within the mind, fracturing its unity.

IS NOBODY GOING TO MENTION HOW SHAKESPEARE WAS SANE AS FUCK?

>>9756067
You forgot this beauty:
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/01/25/influential-writer-william-burroughs-accidentally-shot-and-killed-his-wife-while-demonstrating-his-william-tell-act/

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What was their problem, /lit/?

>>9756093
>but there's substantially less worthwhile literature being produced

citation needed

>>9757804
>>9757841
Confirmed pseud. The idea of melancholy being the cause of genius was established in Late Antiquity by Aristotle in his Problema, which was taken up by such luminaries as Plutarch and Cicero.

>>9758442
Someone has to write all those bodice rippers and beach reader crime dramas. Shitty writing is still writing and shitty writers are still writers.

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>>9756067
>Voltaire: Chronically constipated frog, drank 50 cups of tea a day, spent16 hours a day in bed writing.
>Virgil: Weakling manlet, once held a lavish funeral for a pet fly. Died after being in the sun a bit.

>>9764386
Pessoa wasn't totally a NEET shut-in. He was infatuated with a 19 year old girl when he was around 31. He'd sent her letters about how she needed to be spanked etc and she would LARP as a naughty girl for him in return. I don't think they ever fucked or anything but he had a very Joycean libido

>>9757130
Incredible. How do you fuck up killing yourself that many times?

>>9764357
Shakespeare was a fag so no

>>9760555
Happy people are either very dumb or very profound. Sadsacks are in the middle.

>>9756067
Because people who write do so in order to fill a void that's left empty by their lives, this has been discussed countless times.

Thank you for the list though, it's interesting, even though you tried your hardest to sound like an insufferable normie /b/tard when writing it.

>>9764920
>shakespeare was a fag
WRONG

what next? shakespeare was actually negr...oh, we're already there

>>9764999
>literally wrote 126 love poems to a man
How are you going to argue against this? It is possible that the sonnets are fictional and not autobiographical, but the homosexuality of Shakespeare is still a real possibility.

>>9765014
No it isn't, your teacher is lying to you

>>9765030
Nope. Come back when you've actually read Shakespeare's sonnets.

>>9765045
You can love a man without wanting him to deposit his schlong into your arsehole, you silly man

>>9765086
Kill yourself

>>9765086
>plz gibs me attenshun

>>9765139
You reek of underage

>>9765154
this.

>>9765166
Upvote

>>9765139
>Joking
Fuck off, I reported you to the authorities

>>9765172
You can't report me to the authorities because I live on international waters.

>>9756067

>Kafka: Nervous kike

Hehe.

>>9757972
>Mentions Goethe
>Forgets the subject of Werther

>>9756085
I have a female roommate who has borderline personality disorder.
She's nice one day and a fucking psycho the next, but she pays her part of the rent so I don't care.

Dante: Constant state of incredible butthurt. Devoted all his art to a woman he saw for a few seconds.
D. H. Lawrence: raging autistic nymphomaniac
T. S. Elitot: All around sadboy who literally married to get pussy.
Shakespeare: Cross-dressing bisexual with cuck fetish. Drunk himself to death.

>>9765260
>Devoted all his art to a woman he saw for a few seconds.
I know this feel lad

The unknown women is evermore beautiful than the known.
Once you get to know them, they're all so unlikable.
Dante knew this

Pound: Fascist

>>9765267
Of course. Still autistic though.

>>9758440
>If you're watching cells in a microscope, you may use the word "degeneration".
Nope. Social degeneration is real and observable. Civilizations break down in moral structure over time, it's a basic fact.

>>9756067

Fucking kill yourself.

>>9756134

Haha. Jonathan Shit.

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>>9756067
>have child die before reaching their third year of life
>be imprisoned for a long time
>have almost everyone in family die young
>almost get shot by firing squad
how did he do it?

>>9758791
He was a pretty good writer. That means that he had a pretty good sense of other people's emotions and was handy enough with words to be convincing. Writers are really good at sounding convincing even about bulshit because convincing another person is not about what you say, it's HOW you say it.

>>9758807
I agree, it's already an exception when you're poor and self educated it becomes an astonishing exception if you manage to get recognition from society by doing something you taught yourself to do.

>>9764386
He was alone, hermits run circles inside their own heads like inmates on a cell, that's not a healthy thing. You start looking at yourself too much you start criticizing yourself too much, so much that you start thinking, and talking to yourself solely on terms o how much of a piece o shit you think you are. You do that for long enough you start forgetting how to talk to other people. Most people deal with this by drugs and tv and shitposting on a ukranian shoplifting message board but as far as I know, he didn't drink.

>Why are humans so fucked up?

>>9756067
Look at that list on the bright side, anon...

There's hope for us, yet.

>>9757986
Thomas Mann was an actual pedophile, and he recorded the lust for his prepubescent son in his diary and a few of his letters. He never followed his lust, though.

>>9757130
i gotta read this guy

>>9756975
New requisite for creative writing classes.

>>9757058
If you try for a career in writing you are mentally disturbed.

>>9757130
Ha! Been meaning to read him, and now I will for sure. Sounds fun.

>>9756490

No all writers are very modest.

>>9756986

He also killed an old woman with an axe.

>>9757130

>You will never have Japanese powerlevel.

>>9757657

emasculate and infantilize

>>9756955
Kek

>>9757778
Was going to mention this.
My one poetry prof had Berryman as a prof when she was in school and apparently saw him jump. She said he was standing at the edge of the bridge for a long time, saw her, waved and jumped.

I don't think that writers are more fucked up thank most people. I think that most people are complicated and terrified messes that pretend they're not because it's expected of them. If people were not as mentally unstable as the writers they read nobody would buy their books, there would be no connection between the writer and the reader. The thing is that it becomes more obvious with writers because they express a lot more, both in terms of volume and in terms of eloquence, so it's easier to create a clearer picture. The classification of mental ilneesses is not an exact science yet, the farmacological treatment is precise but the deinitions o what qualifies as a pathology still relies pretty strongly on what a persona communicates and how the communicate it but I'm getting distracted here. the point is that id people wen't fucked up we wouldn't even need writers to express elegantly what we all feel but avoid saying. Try reading texts written by people with schizophrenia, paranoid delusions or experiencing a psychotic episode, see if you can empathize with them.

>>9765071
and still be gay

>>9756067
Failed to even mention /ourguy/ the Marquis de Sade.

>>9765918

Youre fucking stupid. Lovers suicides were just really popular at the time.

>>9765965

Nah cunt. Pessoa fucked bitches, actually liked his job, and was fond of his nephews.

>>9756067
>Maxim Gorky: Bitter fucker 2.0, attempted suicide
kek
his last name means bitter in Russian

>>9756067
Well to back Zweig up for a sec here, the world he loved and called his home (Europe pre-passport-era) was literally being blown to peices by bombs falling from the sky.

Maybe all the so called "good writers" have lived deeper lives and are therefore capable of suffering at levels we can't understand.

>>9758251
probably the same reason it was full of so many literary/philosophical geniuses

>>9756194
Neither was Carroll.

>>9758869
He had pictures of naked kids because that was literally his job description. He was a photographer, and that was pretty much what photographers did in those days.

>>9756085
Hello, fellow unfortunate.

It's interesting, actually. Having recently finished Notes from Underground and A Nasty Story, it's easy to see how his characters are written from the perspective of a borderline. I don't know if I'd include The Double, though.
The man from underground, for example, is consumed with self-loathing, "consciousness". His self-esteem is so pathetically low that he wages personal wars to tyrannize others' souls. It's worst with Liza; when he succumbs to hysterics, he momentarily reveals his true, vulnerable self. Yet, vainly, he resents this vulnerability, he can't suffer it, so he becomes all the more cruel.

Not to mention the bipolar moods, black-and-white thinking, idealization and devaluation (again, Liza), self-destructive behavior, and even his relationship with his servant.

Uncanny.

>>9766250
Mankind follows freaks, dude. Or have you failed to notice? Adolph Hitler and co.- adults? Donald Trump- an adult?
I think the Nazi ideal (you) hyperbolize away from is silly, at best.
This, by the way, is no upholding of bourgeois adulthood as some apical ideal. But give me the children of light. (You) and the moderately read children of reaction are better served on /pol/.

>>9767712

(You) - adult?

>>9767764
Good God, hopefully not. Becoming settled, complacent. Putting on the required airs. It's an omnipresent danger after a certain age (about 23). Much of the anxiety that attends keeping true to art, letters, music is precisely the temptation (viewed by adults everywhere as a responsibility) to become one of them. I am speaking metaphorically, of course. But in what I believe is a true way.

>>9767806

>complacent

more like becoming a passive-aggressive retard

>>9767813
Of course (you) haven't got what it takes to actually argue, Nancy....

>>9767815

>Fuck you.

>>9767838
Eh, good one.
>to /pol/

>>9767841

Fuck you.

>>9756965
The 21st century is the current century of the Anno Domini era, in accordance with the Gregorian calendar. It began on January 1, 2001 and will end on December 31, 2100.[1][2]

>>9756067
depression and a desire to express oneself come hand in hand, take that any way you want it fits

>>9764435
Compare population sizes.

Life is tragedy.
Becuase it has to end.
And writing about the trivial lives of your fellow man never seems to do it enough justice.

>>9756228
Projection much?
I see lots of people in my medical line of work and the degree of fucked-upness varies so considerably that the statement "all people are fucked up" makes no sense.

>>9765260
OP here. This is good. Wow. I never thought my post would get so many replies, I gave up after the first six or seven, thinking I failed. I am slightly autist myself, obsessed with making Powerpoint presentations on many things, including writers. I gathered lots of random trivia on them years ago and decided to share them here after lurking on /lit/ a while.
Anyway, I was gonna put Dante down but remembered Petrarch did the same thing and it was kinda linked to the whole medieval courtly love thing, so not that unusual. D.H. Lawrence and Eliot - spot on.

>>9757559
How? I can't find

>>9760421
>blueeyeswhiteprivelage
Pretty good trip name desu senpai

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>>9756067
Thinking leads to depression, it really is that simple. Plus, writers starve to death and subsist in abject poverty. And since women are creatures uninterested in starving and living with no money, a lot of writers might have that additional hell-factor to contend with.

I quite like your list, by the way.

>>9759619
Stop shilling your shitty self-published shit on here...
You suck.

>>9766288
i know it was way fucking late but thanks for the (you) i am vain

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>>9765965
>as far as I know, he didn't drink
BOY!

Also, you and >>9764735 are missing the point. Try again

>>9756067
Rabindranath Tagore - ?

Because their daddies died when they reached age eleven.

>>9767333
Same guy Alice's parents told to GTFO and never come around again?

>>9756067
>Kawabata and Dazai also killed themselves
>Bolaño was depressed, poor, and disappointed by how cruel the world and capitalism were for most of his life >Borges was a sperg who obsessed over any woman who payed any attention to him and had episodes of reclusion

>>9770722
Senpai noticed me!

>>9759619
>>9771717
You sound like every other person
None of that is "fucked up", lmao

Fucking amateur

>>9756986
>>9756995
He also bumped into an army officer on Nevski Prospekt once--on purpose!

>>9756228
>>9768847
This.

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle

>>9757972
Didn't Goethe once say that he hosted terrible passions? Like fantasize about rape and murder?

>>9758693
Sounds bad, but it's worse in the Third World, where you have children begging for money as soon as they learn to walk. Today was definitely 45 degrees, and I saw a kid nearly fainting from the heat. He didn't though- he was probably too afraid of going back home empty handed. It's depressing, it makes you lose faith in life.

>>9757621
Disappointed that deleuze got excluded from the list desu

>>9760620
I agree, that's a really bad article from Hitchens

>After an unsuccessful attempt to volunteer for the U-boat fleet in 1942, at age 15, Grass was conscripted into the Reichsarbeitsdienst (Reich Labor Service). He was called up for the Waffen-SS in 1944. Grass was trained as a tank gunner and fought with the 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg until its surrender to U.S. forces at Marienbad.[57][58]

So he did some shit at 15 and joined the Waffen SS at 17, then kept that secret out of shame. And Hitchens is butthurt about the actions of a teenager.

>>9772042
well that just sounds fucking awesome

>>9756067
You forgot one
>Convicted criminal : Oscar Wilde

>>9756067
99% of them modern writes. It's almost like it was an advantage to be a fuckek writer in the modern times............................................

>>9773323
Convicted for buggery, I believe.

Good work.

>>9756067
James Joyce had a scat fetish too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_illness

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Plath_effect

>>9765655
He had the time line on his side.

Or

Pinned against him depending on perspective.

Me: pacifist, vegetarian, shy, heterosexual, hates degeneration, conservative, environmentalist, stole something once and broke a window as a child, not a feminist, didn't do homework that much while in school, called a nerd a few times, took some aspirin when head hurt, serial rapist

>>9765355
Rome's degeneration was entirely financial and military.

Every girl I ever dated was either fucked up or stupid. No middle ground.

I'm fucked up too, most people are.

>>9772016

he couldnt jerk off anymore so he offd himself

Someone post that article that proves that all Canadian authors want to fuck animals/vegetables

>>9758251
desu, contemporary Austria is still pretty fucking degenerate

>>9775164

>no clue whatsoever

>>9772016
>writer

>>9775352
Someone tell me this is real.

>>9757130
I hope he wrote better than his suicide ability

>>9765071
a gay guy with prostatitis or rectal collapse

>>9771992
Every sane man (ie non-cuck) fantasizes about rape and murder. It's a natural instinct.

>>9774956
Sylvia Plath was a shit writer though. The Bell Jar is literally Self-Pity: The Novel

>>9756067
who is "normal"?

Real people is not like the ones you see on your tv ads

>>9757718
Fucking this

>raised in upper middle class
>went to college and studied English just because
>became a heroin addict ironically
>wrote a book about it
>used deadpan language to appeal to normies who were into sensationalist dimestore novels
>got too into sodomy
>wrote post-Joycean avant-teen shit

>>9756067
Tao Lin: rapist, drug addict, general shithead

>>9779990
Burroughs is a pleb and mediocre writer

>>9756067
because they're idiots
fiction is bullshit

John Green seems pretty normal. Checkmate, OP

>>9756134
also Mozart got excited over shit too

wrote a work with shit in the title ill found the source later

>>9766434
I once thought Stirner was before his time but Sade was in a different world

the man saw the future of literature like no pervert before him ever did

only took 300 years for other authors to catch on to what Sade laid down for us hundreds of years before