Theory of Ruin Value

Sounds like dumb shit. Berlin got levelled in WWII and now modern Berlin is ugly as shit.

>>9753448
Uncited Wikipedia responds:
"Most of these planned buildings were never constructed, and even those that were, were often constructed out of cheap concrete, instead of the materials intended. Today, they mostly either lie in unromantic ruin in fields, or have been demolished."

Sounds like a very German thing.

>>9753438
god nazis are retarded

>>9753438
theres something very poignant about this

It's an interesting idea, if I recall the futurists in Italy thought of something similar. This would never fly in a city though, the property value would be too much for most people, especially land owners, to have it occupied by aesthetic but inefficient ruins.

>>9754417
True. That's why Fallout is so cool.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=ruinenwert
looks like they have no substantial documents about it except a short remark in speer's memoirs, and short utterances by monument planners which predate 1933.

i'd say it's probably related to 18th century romantic aesthetic of fragment, and cult of antique ruins (friedrich schlegel, goethe etc). some 19th century musicologist remarked that a JS Bach fragment and those of other masters were immediately recognizable as such, like antique ruins.

so by the time of 20th century it must have become proverbial wisdom that monuments should remain for absolute eternity.

>novalis fragments are heroic landscapes in which time is defeated
t. hofmannsthal in 1920s aphorism

They shoulda spent 5 years building all this up so that once they loose and their cities were in ruins they could see if the Wert of their ruined structures held up to their calculations of its Ruinwert.

>>9754443
Ah, but this wouldn't be for regular owners. It would be State-funded greatworks.

>>9754504
Quite a shame. Thanks for the scholar search. I should have known that might have yielded something more.

Hmm, I'm peripherally acquainted with the Romantic obsession with ruins. Did you have any great Goethean references where I could read his views upon it?

>>9754598
They had more important things to do.

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41KB, 300x445px

>>9753438
recalls to mind a theme i've been mulling over, though refuse to share because it's fucking mine, and you should take the hint and keep your good themes to yourself, because that's what whiny losers call
>muh ideas
as in
>hur dur i can't think of what to write
and there is a collective cringe when someone tells him to just tell a story, when all people worth a damn know that themes are the best foundation for a work of literature.

this concept works very well with what i've been mulling over, ruin value. next time keep your trap shut tho.

>>9754865
Nobody wants your idea

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13KB, 430x322px

>>9754865
You must be a very deep thinker.

>>9754886
they wouldn't know what to do with it.
>>9754894
>implying the brute strength mental technique of many monkeys isn't preferable to your sarcastic plebeianity
spitshine my shoes.

>>9753438
"In 1934, the architect Albert Speer proposed "A Theory of Ruin Value".... Speer explained this theory in his memoirs (1970: 56):

>The idea was that buildings of modern construction were poorly suited to form that 'bridge of tradition' to future generations which Hitler was calling for. It was hard to imagine that rusting heaps of rubble could communicate these heroic inspirations which Hitler admired in the monuments of the past. My 'theory' was intended to deal with this dilemma. By using special materials and by applying certain principles of statics, we should be able to build structures which even in a state of decay, after hundreds or (such were our reckonings) thousands of years would more or less resemble Roman models.
>To illustrate my ideas I had a romantic drawing prepared. It showed what the reviewing stand on the Zeppelin Field would look like after generations of neglect, overgrown with ivy, its columns fallen, the walls crumbling here and there, but the outlines still clearly recognizable. In Hitler's entourage this drawing was regarded as blasphemous. That I could even conceive of a period of decline for the newly founded Reich destined to last a thousand years seemed outrageous to many of Hitler's closest followers. But he himself accepted my ideas as logical and illuminating. He gave orders that in the future the important buildings of his Reich were to be erected in keeping with the principles of this 'law of ruins'."

Interestingly, Hans-Ernst Mittig argued recently (1993: 21) that there is no proof that the theory of ruin value existed before 1969 at all (when Speer first published his memoirs). He went on to state that the theory of ruin value has left no traces in any publications of the Nationalsocialist period, and Mittig concludes that the popularity of this idea must be due to a contemporary fascination with ruins today."

http://wayback.archive-it.org/6473/20160819144823/https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/citd/holtorf/7.4.html

One of the most interesting threads in a while, or the concept to me seems really interesting
But how could you possibly deduce how your design would end up aesthetically pleasing

>>9754908
If only you could be this eloquent whilst writing something meaningful and impactful. Good luck with your novella friend.

>>9754848
goethe organized an artificial ruin in 1784
http://www.weimar-lese.de/index.php?article_id=536

and he drew many ruins on his italian journey and wrote about it in his diary desu. locals suspected that he was a military spy because they didnt comprehend such a useless artistic interest at the time.

>>9755262
Thanks, I appreciate the compliment.
I think it is more a matter of keeping an eye on the fact that your building will decay and decline. If that is your grand plan, you can make certain decisions. For example, Speer's designs didn't have metal rebar, because the wouldn't decay beautifully. Everything was to be stone and glass. Otherwise, I can see mathematical models to guess at where the building would collapse, and, now, with computer technology, we could simulate different likelihoods and see the result.

>>9755359
Oh geez, that's neat. I'm totally into artificial ruins, but the Wikipedia article on it seems grossly sparse. Haha, yes, I have heard those suspicions of Goethe's time in Italy.