What self-help books are legitimately good and useful?

Is there any evidence a person can help themselves?

>>9731747
just KYS senpai

>>9731747
ride the tiger

>>9731757
>evidence
cuck

people can't improve after the age of 14

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>Philosophical books are the ultimate kind of self-help books, but philosophy is not for the kind of people who read self-help books.

>>9731868
ding ding ding

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>>9731747

This is a meme list.
What are you doing, lad?

>>9731747
The Unique and its Property.

>>9731859
this

A Thousand Plateaus

>>9731864
bullshit. the brain doesn't even fully develop till the age of 25.

If you want to read baby's first self-help, just go read the Stoics or Taoism, they all have pretty basic info about how not to be a bitch ass pussy.
Neetchee and Stirner are pretty good if you feel you are weak or that your life has been decided by others.
I think Jung has some merit as a self-help author, he does give answers to psychological issues you might have.
I'm personally reading Ouspensky's The Fourth Way since I like occultism and mysticism, and the self reflection part has been quite interesting and fruitful. I will probably keep reading Gurdjieff afterwards.
Actually, most occultism books are legit self-help books, unless you buy into the crazy mumbo jumbo and want to cast fireballs while becoming an aryan sexual beast and whatnot.

>>9731868
icy is that you?

>>9732917
isn't being a literal cuck the ultimate stoic fetish? why would anyone want to learn that?

None. Self-help is only for really basic stuff and if you're already failing that you're fucked. Life really isn't that fucking hard, just go clean your room and sort yourself out.

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>>9733137

>Life really isn't that fucking hard, just go clean your room and sort yourself out.

>>9733145
Why has he got Kermit over his shoulder?

>>9733158
his voice sounds like kermit, also he panders to kekistan kids

>>9733130
Just because you are somewhat learned as a stoic, you are not stripped of your will and emotions, just have more discipline over them

>>9733145
>wahh im a victim of society you wouldn't understand redditor
Like thats any better

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>>9731747
None. Self-help is a scam.

But assuming what you want is to "get ahead", what you want to read is Machiavelli, including what he translated: Sun Tzu's The Art of War and the Discourses of Livy. And of course, The Prince.

If you wanna go even more immoral, there's Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.

If you're a nihilist but don't want to be a pessimist because you're an insufferable faggot, Nietzsche is for you. He will have you try to reach perfection, kinda like self-help books want to do, except Nietzsche isn't trying to scam you. Read him in chronological order.

If what you want is to fuck bitches, pic related is enough.

>>9733261
underrated post

>>9733184

>projecting this hard
i am just tired of these catchphrase brainlets parroting the same shit endlessly. they are boring.

Just watch Jordan Peterson's Maps of Meaning lectures. I know people here don't like Peterson when it comes to philosophy, but when it comes to self help, it's literally his job. He seems to be helping thousands of people now, so give it a shot.

>>9733348
I'm not sure I understand how his lectures would help anyone. Not a peterson hater or anything, but he basically always goes *myth explanation* -> "sort yourself out". The only time I heard him give actual advice was when he told people to clean their room. And I guess you could call advice all the negative advice he gives like "don't do X", "don't be X" which is ok. But seriously, I mean, who the hell get helped by this? It's more like he's trying to prevent people from becoming SJWs rather than helping people who are in any sort of psychological predicament.

>>9733370
Argument by analogy is an effective means of communicating experiences and ideas.

>>9733370
Did you watch his lectures?
Anyway, I don't think they're helpful for everyone, but they are for people who have some sort of existential crisis or whatever.
Basically to me JP's message is that psychological health requires a certain way of thinking, which might appear arbitrary or non-intuitive at first. And I don't think his view is all that radical, it's probably shared by most psychologists. What's special about JP is how he integrates certain elements and current political issues into an interesting package.

>>9733261
>Sun Tzu's The Art of War
ask me i how i know you're an idiot

>>9733446
How

>>9733446
Yeah, I remembered after posting. I read them like 15 years ago, so I had them mixed up. Sue me.

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Not necessarily self-help, but are there any recommendations for general healthy lifestyle books? Focusing on nutrition and fitness mostly. I know a lot of the stuff is common sense or on the Internet but I just want to have it in book format

>>9733370
From the perspective of people like Peterson and his fans, being a SJW is already the result of negative psychological ailments like resentment, ressentiment, excessive pity, poor self-esteem, etc.

With that said, his self-help lectures are indeed far better than his uninformed musings on philosophy.

>>9733137
yeah really all you have to do is clean your room

>>9733370
have you even tried cleaning your room?

wipe your but anon

>>9733520
>or on the Internet
Watch out for that, there's a lot of bullshit on it, I used to do the same
>is common sense
Some of it is, such as vegetables being healthy, and some dishes are scientifically sound: they contain foods the interact and you gain more of it.

I suggest "How not to die" by Michael Greger, but note that it is about nutrition for longevity, obviously if your goal is fitness you could want other information

"self-help" is a horrible phrase, but I would recommend Brain Tracy- Eat That Frog if you're looking for a nice and easy to digest starter book.

>>9733520
print out the /fit/ sticky and bind it into a book?

Seriously though, the /fit/ sticky is probably some of the best health and fitness info I've ever come across. There's so much BS out there, it's rare to find good, basic info on that topic.

>>9733137
>Life really isn't that fucking hard
>reducing all human suffering to "just put more effort"
you're not really alive

>>9734370
People who are looking at reading self-help books aren't exactly experiencing profound human suffering

>>9734382
and why is that? are dumb people incapable of suffering?

>>9732917
>Stirner
>A nihilist German
>Helpful
Nitsche would be helpful. Contrary to popular belief, he wasn't a nihilist and he advocated against that destructive pattern of thought and degeneracy.

Oh, and with Evola, read "Man amongst the Ruins". Ride the Tiger starts going AWOL real quick, but I heard it's still 5/5 Breddy Gud

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the "overcoming" series of books (as recommended by NHS psychology departments nationwide!)

they work and aren't based on some kind of off-shoot of new-age human-potential-movement mumbo jumbo or based on 80's style boost your ego and dominate your opposition nonsense.

Not very glamorous, not much tinsel and you get out what you put in

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>>9734405
>over 600 page book for someone with depression

cheeky

>>9734421
I think thats an error. My copy has about 250 pages

>>9731747
The Greeks.

>>9734403
Nigga, Stirner tries to make you see that ideas posses you and you need to fight back to make use of them, not the other way around.
You can read books any way you want and give them any interpretation you want (even if those are bad or shortsighted), try reading Stirner as a critique of over-ideologization and as a way of man to overcome itself.
Nietzsche seems like diet Stirner at some points even, and many people agree on that.

>>9733261
can you give me more sociopathic or this kind of
literature?

(Serious answer).

Marcus Aurelius, Meditations.

Thich Nhat Hanh, The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching

Henry David Thoreau, Walden

Autobiography of Malcolm X

>>9735091
The 48 Laws of Power

>>9733261

That's cool in all but where the pics at? Where the proof this guy gets pussy? Damn anyone can fraud on the internet.

>>9734314
>"How not to die" by Michael Greger,
Thanks, this actually looks closer to something I was originally looking for

Michael Greger is a loser

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anything that's like a good updated version of how to win friends and influence people? I'd like to be more sociable and have more courage when it comes to talking to random people and connecting but most of the things in HTWFAIP have become cliche and seem ingenuine

"talking to random people" is a meme and is for weirdos. talking to new people in some logical context is better.

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>>9731747
People cannot change. No-one has ever 'improved' or 'helped' themselves in the history of history. The best and only counsel to each and every man is this, embrace despair.

>>9733261
Yeah because we're all warriors who rule nations

Serious reply:

Read Norse mythology. The entire premise is that all of life is suffering, and the only redemption is through suffering heroically. All of the gods know they're going to die. Those swell bastards had no hope whatever. Made me feel good.

Accept your fate and brace for impact.

>>9737043
You use the war concepts of Machiavelli and Sun Tzu as equivalent to competition and leadership.

For example, let's take one point where Machiavelli and Sun Tzu agree: a general/prince must command respect and treat his soldiers as his own children, with a good balance of discipline and diversion/reward - if you were reading one of those self-help books about leadership, they'd try to fill 300 pages out of what Sun Tzu takes 2 or 3 50 word precepts. But if you're not absolutely retarded, you can see that this clearly applies to business too.

>>9735229
This book terrifies me, it's making me anxious and paranoid of other people.

>>9737359
this booklet is the dumbest thing i've read in my entire life, i've never seen a work so shamelessly contradict itself so many times

>>9737359
Nothing to worry about as long as you have a reasonable gauge for how sophisticated your friends and foes can be, i.e., know which levels of power somebody is operating on. Just don't underestimate the wrong people.

>>9737645
Real life contradicts itself. Not all heuristics are equally applicable. Not all human action is consistent. I'm not sure what you mean by shamelessly contradicting itself... it's not an instruction manual to be done in order.

>>9736769
>anything that's like a good updated version of how to win friends and influence people? I'd like to be more sociable and have more courage when it comes to talking to random people and connecting but most of the things in HTWFAIP have become cliche and seem ingenuine

Maybe you need to read several books, and by read I mean thoroughly digest, practice, review, and repeat. The key to social skills is building connections with other people, which means you need to build rapport, find common ground, and share new experiences together. This is both an exercise in developing practical skills and overcoming psychological hurdles.

Improve Your Social Skills by Daniel Wendler will give you all the basics you need to know. Then go out and talk with people. Get a firm grasp on the basics while observing your strongpoints and weakpoints. Write them down, think about how to improve, and then practice again. Maybe you're not that funny or spontaneous (try learning about improv), maybe you're nervous about other people's opinions (try cognitive behavioral therapy), maybe you don't give off a friendly impression (try learning about body language and practicing), maybe you're too naive to read between the lines (try The Games People Play by Eric Berne), or maybe you're too wishy-washy to be respected (try No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover). HTWFAIP isn't a bad book, but you're right that a lot of tips have been cliche, and the best advice from that book is to become a better listener and to genuinely learn to appreciate other people.

Just learn the basics, practice, find out what you really lack, and then set your mind to work solving that issue. One last warning: don't fall into the trap of reading, reading, reading, without any practice. Start with Daniel Wendler, and don't move on until you've mastered everything he has to offer. As long as you PRACTICE extensively after reading, you'll grow into your own shoes and achieve some sort of mastery over yourself.

>>9736769
Reposting some more of the relevant reasoning behind the book list and an additional resource in case you find it useful.

>I've thought about this quite a lot, and after trying to break down rapport in an autistic fashion, I've concluded that there's really no single book you can read to be interesting to most other people. What kind of topic is going to be interesting to most other people? What kind of behavior or skill is going to be influential or relevant to most other people? What kind of humor is going to be funny to most other people? There's no such thing, and approaching "being interesting" as "stamp collecting of interesting subjects" is going to doom you to failure unless you are targeting a specific group of people with specific mannerisms. And even at this rate, without the basics of rapport down, then any attempt to do this kind of targeted approach is doomed to failure.

>What is the best general approach then to have interesting things to say? "Being yourself", except instead of being a cryptic faggot about it, we'll come up with a working definition: being at ease with yourself and others enough so that you can bond over common experiences, feelings, and interests. What is going to help you? Asking the right questions to get other people to open up and share information, practicing charismatic and relaxed body language, being observant, spontaneous, and vulnerable to encourage wit based off of what you both know, maintaining social awareness and following up after encounters, etc. Once you establish a connection with another person, then the topics will flow naturally, and eventually you'll discover whether you share enough in common with somebody else to be interesting, or simply have too many differences (and that's okay too).

-- --

>Now that I'm thinking about it, I would also recommend A Primer in Positive Psychology - Christopher Peterson for reference purposes. But don't get caught up on reading when you could be practicing skills and integrating experiences.

>>9732892
>2017
>Still believing in the brain meme

>>9733261
This post reminds me of the stupid fucking myspace blogs I used to write when I was 14. Thanks for the trip down nostalgia lane, anon.

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All these posts and all these people in full denial about self-help books. OP just read some well known self help books Like Dale Carnegie and Napoleon Hill. This "Start with the greeks" is general life guidance however self-help can be much more fine tuned to your situation. Right now Im reading
" No Excuses!: The Power of Self-Discipline "
its bretty gud.
Self-Help can offer you great methods to help tackle your situation.

>>9737932
>>9737944
I found this helpful. Thank you, anon.

bump for useful information

>>9737905
>Real life contradicts itself
wrong, contradictions are only possible in the realm of concepts

>>9738725
>still hasn't cited how 48 laws of power contradicts itself
Friend, you don't have to operate under all the laws at once. Politics is an art, not a science, when practiced.

>>9738995
>>still hasn't cited how 48 laws of power contradicts itself
why would anyone join in on literary discussions without having read the work in question

>you don't have to operate under all the laws at once
do you even know what a law is

>>9739013
>why would anyone join in on literary discussions without having read the work in question
idk, you'd think the critic would be able to cite the obvious contradictions at least once

>do you even know what a law is
quibbling over artistic license and semantics is the sign of NO ARGUMENT

>>9739170
>idk, you'd think the critic would be able to cite the obvious contradictions at least once
if you actually read it and have an iq over 80 then you should know exactly what i'm talking about, feigning ignorance and deliberately asking me to cite something you already know just because you feel you have the moral right to request this of me and i can't refuse without violating some unwritten rule of argumentation etiquette by not proving what is already axiomatically excepted by both parties because i'm under the burden of proof is extremely autismal my man.

but ok, i'll play your sick game, rules 6 and 16, 17 and 21, 38 and 27, respectively contradict each other. i'm just skimming through it to quickly give a few examples, if you're really intent on defending this pile of garbage i can articulate a more concentrated attack.

>>9731864
This is pretty much true, nobody can really "change themselves", it's a marketing scam.

>>9739217
>but ok, i'll play your sick game, rules 6 and 16, 17 and 21, 38 and 27, respectively contradict each other. i'm just skimming through it to quickly give a few examples, if you're really intent on defending this pile of garbage i can articulate a more concentrated attack.
pray tell me, how do they contradict each other? you do realize that not every law is applicable if the social context does not make it applicable. if you don't have a master-apprentice dynamic, then you don't have to worry about outshining the master, for example.

>>9739423
>you do realize that not every law is applicable if the social context does not make it applicable
the laws are phrased in abstract form, as general statements. when read as such, they contradict each other. whether or not the reader has the good sense to selectively ignore the bad advice is irrelevant to this fact.

>>9739436
it doesn't matter if they're abstract. that's the point. they're abstract so its easy to extrapolate to one social situation or another provided the right conditions are met. like I said before, not all 48 laws are applicable at the same time because much of them are highly situational

Feel free to give a real argument by explaining one example of a contradiction, like I've asked you for the fifth time

>>9739717
>it doesn't matter if they're abstract. that's the point.
it precisely the fact that they're abstract that creates the contradiction. i have given you the real examples, you just don't like them. saying that being inconspicuous is a generally good thing contradicts saying that being charismatic and attracting attention is a generally good thing. the contradiction can only be solved when you're talking about specifics, but the booklet doesn't do this.

i understand what you mean by this:
>not all 48 laws are applicable at the same time because much of them are highly situational
but it's not in the pamphlet, it's not even implicit in it, and even if it was, it would do it no good. if a carpenter tries to teach an apprentice and says "sometimes use the hammer, other times use the saw", he has imparted no useful information.

>>9739765
You didn't give any examples. You just cited laws that you think contradict without giving any evidence. Imagine if I wrote a book called "48 laws of putting on clothes", and in writing my abstract guide, gave two conflicting laws "rising sun shorts" and "falling dusk shorts", one commanding you to take off shorts, the other to put them on. They conflict, unless you realize that one law is only applicable for the morning, and the other is for evening. I don't know how else to explain this to you except repeating the master apprentice dynamic I said earlier.

>he has imparted no useful information.
You've now been made aware of several prominent situations. It's like complaining about reading a book on literary devices and then getting mad when not every book you read as a synecdoche.

>>9735229
Yeah, read this, and then listen Swans - Filth and realize you're a massive posturing faggot whose going to wither away into nothing regardless

>>9739962
so when i gave only examples without description you said lol no argument and when i purely describe a contradiction without saying which law it represents you say lol no evidence, you're impossible my man
your fashion guide explains when to apply each rule, but the 48 rules of power doesn't. i never listen the first law as an example

the whole point of general rules is that they work as heuristics, so even if it's not always true, it works in at least the majority of the time, but if you give two general rules that say conflicting shit you're just confusing your readers. i'm not expecting to be told what to do, but if he said "most of the time you should stay calm low key, except for when you need to make an example out of someone", i at least have some idea of what the advice is that's being given, but reading the book as it is only gives off the idea that you should simultaneously present yourself, as this enigmatic, unpredictable, dangerous cult leader, but also make sure to befriend your enemies and make sure they think they're smarter than you and you're just an average guy, unless you live a double life it's not possible

>>9740009
>so when i gave only examples without description you said lol no argument and when i purely describe a contradiction without saying which law it represents you say lol no evidence, you're impossible my man
Is it impossible for you to be anything more than vague? All I asked was for you to pick two laws and then argue how they both contradict each other in a fundamental way. You've been dodging around the point in a way that makes me think you've never read the book.

>your fashion guide explains when to apply each rule, but the 48 rules of power doesn't. i never listen the first law as an example
I meant to come up with an example that is more implicit than explicit. Sorry that I couldn't. But like I said before, it depends on the context. If you were in the position, and you learned from the book, then you would know how it could help you stay on top. i.e., outshining the master isn't a concern if there's no master-apprentice dynamic, but if there is, it will be a major psychological tension between the two that has to be addressed somehow.

>the whole point of general rules is that they work as heuristics, so even if it's not always true, it works in at least the majority of the time, but if you give two general rules that say conflicting shit you're just confusing your readers.
Power dynamics are far more complicated than that. We're talking about trying to describe the various social forces that press upon people and how to describe them. If anything, Greene is talking about literary theory but applied to real life in a way that allows you to visualize the ebb and flow of human desires its connection to leverage.

>but reading the book as it is only gives off the idea that you should simultaneously present yourself, as this enigmatic, unpredictable, dangerous cult leader, but also make sure to befriend your enemies and make sure they think they're smarter than you and you're just an average guy, unless you live a double life it's not possible
That is extremely possible, depending on how it is exactly implemented. Primary example: Donald fucking Trump. Makes everybody think he's unpredictable and followed by cultish fanatic, and yet everybody thinks he's a total moron. Well, all I can say is that gives him plenty of breathing space to make his next move since people are constantly underestimating him and unable to defend themselves from his moves. Love him or hate him, there's a reason he's president, and it's not because he's lucky.

>>9732328
Gtfo with your bullshit. I'm not OP, but even if you don't agree with the sentiment that's not a meme list. Idiot

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>>9737932
>>9737944
Good stuff. Never thought of replacing How to Win Friends and Influence People with some other books that are more focused on social skills in general. Thanks for the advice!

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what should i read from this list?

>>9742114
Almost none of these books are self-help.

>>9731747
Don't listen to all of the blackpills in this thread, Seven Habits is a fairly good self-help book (the only one I've read though).

>>9731747
For social/general anxiety "Panic Attacks workbook" is the way to go, don't even bother looking for other books most of what I found are a glorified version of "get over it"

>>9742125
No you should listen to this "redpill". How to Win Friends is an okay book but it is dated and cliche.
>>9737932
>>9737944

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Marcus Aurelius gave us everything we need to lift ourselves up and improve ourselves back in the day. Everything since the Meditations has been an unnecessary, superfluous waste of money.

>>9733261
All this Chad "advice" on women is bullshit. The only thing you need to do to get a girl is to BE NICE TO HER. Just think. Why would a rational human being not want someone who is nice to them? That's all. Be nice. Smile, say compliments, buy her flowers. She gonna love you for the rest of her life. It worked for me. I dated over 10 women in my life and I'm only 32.

None.

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>>9731747
If self help books worked there'd be fewer of them.

>>9742311
I once read a how to on writing self help books.

>>9742241
how long have you been browsing 4chan? not trying to be offensive.

>>9742241

>I dated over 10 women in my life and I'm only 32.

Gee I wonder why all the other relationships didn't last that long. What a mystery.

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>>9742241
You sound like a fag and your shit's all retarded. Wanting niceness is not lust, it's not even romance. Thinking courtship involves just waving a toe over the better end of some neutral line is absurd.

>>9732328
>revolt against the modern world is a meme book

stupid bitch

>>9742350

Evola is catnip for newfag /pol/ tourists. They get so angry when anon doesn't fawn over him as much as they do.

PROTIP: Read more.

>>9742359
i still haven't seen an argument from you. isn't this /lit/? where's your literary examination of the contents of the book?

>>9742374

>i still haven't seen an argument from you.

Why bother? I like you where you are.

>>9742389
then why bring it up at all stupid? how perplexing

>>9733370
to elaborate on >>9733429 's point, i'd say Peterson's advice is most helpful for people who are struggling to find genuine meaning or purpose in their lives, people who wake up and go to bed without in between feeling like they've achieved anything.
As he would say, that's what it's like to not have a direction, a goal to orient yourself towards. Because you don't have a goal, you can't be sure if your decisions during the day are bringing you closer or further away from what you want. So life feels incoherent and pointless.

I'd say his advice is also useful for people who don't even know what they want out of life in the first place. Once you start getting basic life management stuff in order (making your room, grooming, etc) and casting away things you're ashamed of (bad habits, useless hobbies) you get a flavor of what self-improvement feels like. Then you can fine-tune your personal definition of the perfect life, and work towards that, and that's a project that's interesting and important enough for you to be occupied for the rest of your life.

>>9731868
10 /10

>>9742114
Ride the tiger

>>9731747
Heidegger's Being and Time
no joke, if you understand it`s principles, then you should see the life differently, you will be less chained to the das Man

>>9731864
This would explain my problems...

>>9735114
>Malcolm X

Into the trash it goes.

>>9736769
Did you actually read it? Or just the steps. Because while the context and examples may be dated, the overall message for each step holds true and I found them easy to think about in modern day terms or situations.

none of them. Think about it, what happy successful or alpha fulfilled person do you know that turned their life around with a self help book? Fucking nobody.

>>9735114
Meditations is overrated as fuck. I don't know if most people can detach themselves from emotion by hearing well spoken guy say "just don't care about em, fuck em, who needs emotions, just be calm and rational" over and over in different way, but I can't.

>>9737056
best norse myths in your opinion?

>>9744774
The one where Thor pretends to be a bride.

>>9744770
At least reading Epiktet gave me some perspective. Pain is still pain, and suffering is guaranteed. I don't think any knowledge can remove suffering. How can it? At least some emotions are physical.

>>9731747
the Tao Te Ching

for you, monsieur, Schreber's Denkwürdigkeiten eines Nervenkranken

>>9740480
underrated post

>>9733261
cringe post