Anyone else here /mormon/?

I'm not Mormon because I care about the truth.

>>9730717
Yeah, I was born and raised Mormon. Went on a 2 year mission to the Philippines too. I'm completely inactive in the church and haven't been since my mission ended.

Most Mormons who don't live in Utah and don't go to a university in Utah or one of the church's other universities don't stay active. It's a church for families. Young single people don't stay long.

>>9730717
The truth shall set you free.

>>9730744
Why didn't you form a family, anon?

>>9730759
Because I don't live in Utah. Outside of Utah there are no singles wards except for large cities. If you don't live in the city you're out of luck, you'll never meet other young Mormons.
Any and all young people in the church move to Utah, those that don't are the exceptions.
I went years without meeting a single young girl who was a member. Going to church as the single RM in a family ward of kids and newlyweds and old people is fucking hell. That's why so many go inactive, they'd rather not go than deal with that.

>>9730717
Just a tip OP if you want to make a successful thread people appreciate a bit of effort, include content - ie your answer or view on the question you pose rather than just asking a question.

>>9730717
Not Mormon, but I came in possession of a book of Mormon. Inside it has a note/letter to the person who originally got the book from what I assume to be a missionary. Is this common practice or was someone just really trying to convert someone?

>>9730736
fpbp

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>>9731602
Both, since really trying to convert someone is a common practice, silly.

>>9730717
Unironically God's truth.

>>9730717
>mormon
Lol go back to your space station elohim

>>9730717
My good friend was raised mormon. He was explaining to me the whole 'get a planet when you die thing', sounds cool.

>>9731821
Thats only if youre good enough to become god.
Its just a cult.

>>9731828
>Its just a cult.
There is no distinction between a religion and a cult, only that one of them is considered legitimate for LARPing for a millennia or two instead of beginning yesterday.

>>9731851
There is no distinction between a rectangle and a square, only that one of them is considered legitimate for being a bit longer instead of beginning the same on all sides.

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Brigham Young was a trap, no joke look it up.

>>9730717
>>9731828

Wrong.

Mormon here. I was inactive for about 5 years, from roughly 17-22, before finally going back to church and getting involved in a Young Single Adult branch. I still harbor some ill-defined doubts, but overall I'd describe myself as a faithful, in-good-standing member. (I received the Melchizedek priesthood recently, which requires following most--actually, just about all--of the Church's teachings.)

Mormonism, in its current form, is very far from being a cult or even cultlike. True, it's highly organized to a degree of near-corporate efficiency, with a firm emphasis on hierarchical organization and consistency-across-the-board, and members are encouraged (really, obligated--if they wish to retain their temple-worthy status) to affirm their leaders and the Church's institutional make-up as a whole. However, the Church places a huge emphasis on individuals' free agency and self-reliance, with programs that urge an almost Thoreauvian brand of self-sufficiency. Members are expected to develop a testimony of their own--all of the Church's faith-reinforcing systems and consistency protocols merely serve to guide people towards a virtuous or Chistlike way of being.

Although it comes across as cultish indoctrination that Mormons' rather insular lives are carefully structured and maintained in accordance with the Church's prescribed methods, I would defend the necessity for this tendency. The development of spirituality within any tradition demands a resistance to external pressures and, I think, necessitates a certain "quirkiness" or "eccentricity." Wherever a Christian denomination lacks this "eccentricity," you can be sure that they've caved to the pressures of an increasingly progressive culture. Most likely, anyway.

I mean, the absolute center of the Mormon church--and let's call it by its proper name: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--is Jesus Christ. Sure, you can selectively point to particular doctrines or past developments in its history and claim that it's heterodox or downright heretical, but the fact remains that pretty much all Mormons self-identify as Christian and the Church itself declares that its teachings and practices and overall mission are thoroughly Christian.

Really, the LDS church can be viewed as a return to primitive Christianity's basic beliefs, with an additional layer of Old Testament-ish structure.

>>9732095
What I don't understand is the Book of Mormon; it is an additional scripture isn't it?

>>9732111
Not him, but of course it is. What about it?

>>9731884
Extremely stupid post. Please hang yourself

>>9732095
Lol go read the pearl of great price you heretic. You and the joseph smith can fuck right off to Elohims space castle.

>>9732116
Okay well if it is an additional scripture and rejected by all mainline Christian churches then how is Mormonism not a seperate religion in the same way that Islam is?

>>9732139

Because it recognizes the divinity of Jesus Christ, unlike Islam. Jesus Christ's atonement is a central part of Mormonism.

>>9732139
Because they didnt omit jesus from their bible. Any actual christian would tell you that they really arent christians like the way they are though.

The gist of mormonism can be seen here for those who dont want to look anything up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6brMrFw0E

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>>9732139
I never said it was a mainline Christian church. It isn't. It does actually believe the Bible (taking it very literally), unlike Islam. Mormonism is Christian in the sense that a Mormon is a believer that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God (unlike Islam). Mormons are definitely not Christians by the definition of a Christian as someone who confesses the Nicene and other creeds. This is the idea >>9732152 is talking about. The best descriptor of Mormonism is Christian but nontrinitarian, imo.

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I'm a mormon. My bishop's wife recently gave me a book called "Understanding the Book of Mormon" by Grant Hardy, which is about narrative analysis of the Book of Mormon as a work of literature, putting on hold questions of veracity as scripture. Fantastic work so far. Uncovers a lot of the depth that makes the Book of Mormon such an amazing work, regardless of what its origin is. I think non-Mormons who are interested in the Book of Mormon as literature or Mormonism as a phenomenon would get a lot out of it.

>>9732127

That's a marginal, admittedly arcane detail of Mormon theology, which must be situated within the Church's broader, more Christ-centered set of practices and teachings. I mean, the Book of Mormon repeatedly states the importance of having faith in Christ and repenting for one's sins. Like I said, you can selectively (and narrowly) focus on the strangenesses, but that neglects the overall nature and purpose of the LDS Church: to make its member like Jesus Christ.

>>9732166
Noice one, bruv, got 'em again! haha I bet your mom is proud

>>9731921
That's President Brigham Young's son, Brigham Morris Young, so technically you're not wrong in that it is someone named Brigham Young but it isn't THE Brigham Young of LDS church fame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Morris_Young

>>9732095
what meditation do you practice and for how many hours per day?

>>9732148
>>9732152
Okay I suppose that is fair enough.

>>9732177
If you reject the things that separate the mormon church from other churches then why not just become a christian?
Why do you downplay the foundation of your sect? Are you embarassed? I would be.

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>>9732166
obligatory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46PXaJxzuDE

>>9732173
From a literary perspective, I think people often overlook to what extent the Book of Mormon draws from/parallels the Bible. King Benjamin's sermon is just Nehemiah's teaching at the temple, Nephi's apocalyptic vision is just Revelation. Mosiah tells the people not to want a king just like Samuel did before. Certainly a lot to be gained from looking at it from a literary perspective.

>>9732193
Thanks for sharing, definitely did not know this one.

>>9732212
What about the free planet?

>>9732206

I'm not rejecting it.

Mormons believe in apotheosis, like some of the early Church fathers. This means that in becoming like Christ, or like God (though we're non-trinitarian), we become "gods" ourselves in a sense--we become inheritors, or sharers, of God's glory.

>>9730736

I'm not mormon either but what's the point of stupid comments like this?

inb4 "do you know where we are" yeah yeah

>>9731884
>Religions are a subset of cults.
Yes, I suppose that is another way of putting it, anon.

>>9732219
That does sound pretty dank, Mormons are pretty cool.

>>9732208
I certainly agree. The point of the Book of Mormon as scripture, after all, is to provide ANOTHER Testament affirming Biblical principles, not to change those Biblical principles. It makes sense that it would echo the Bible strongly.

The most interesting part of Understanding the Book of Mormon is that it points out and analyzes the differing motivations, agendas, and characteristics of the three different narrators/editors of the Book of Mormon (Nephi, Mormon, Moroni). Whether they are just fictional characters or were actual historical people, seeing how they differ as narrator characters has really broadened my understanding of the Book of Mormon. If it were a fake, it would still be an astounding work of literature. Highly recommended read.

>>9732220
Dont beat around the bush. Tell me about jesus' adventures in north america.

>>9731851

This is a very good post. In it, someone who is not me hits on a deep truth that should be repeated more often in places such as this which pretend to care about history and culture: precisely that the only difference between religions and cults is a difference of time, which is a difference of degree, and not of kind.

>>9732139
The key part of being a Christian is accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, and the Son of God. Muslims just see him as another prophet.

written in an absurd, stilted faux-KJV style but with a surprisingly deep and imaginative narrative that is worth looking at for its own sake.

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>>9732231
I read an interesting paper once looking at 1 Nephi as king Nephi's defense of his right to rule, a sort of apology of his reign. Makes a lot of sense, really explains why he goes to such lengths to paint Laman and Lemuel as fratricidal idiots- all to convince people that he deserves to be king, not his older brothers. Do you have any good dirt on Mormon or Moroni though? I can't think of much of anything besides Mormon's Captain Moroni fanboyism.

>>9732234
He just comes and gives a sermon and heals some people, comes back and does the same thing the next day. Spent a couple hours there, max.

>>9732219

Perhaps the most odd-seeming belief in Mormonism is that spiritual stuff is refined matter which we're not able to see (or tangibly experience) in our corruptible and imperfect form. The "planet" thing, in my own speculation (loosely connected to my knowledge of Mormon doctrine), is that it signifies a transition, or an ascension, to a higher mode of being--perfection and incorruption. Linguistic descriptions are naturally going to be provisional and incomplete.

>>9732234
Read 3 Nephi. It's not that long. But I can sum it up what you might want to know:

>A visionary from Jerusalem named Lehi sees Jerusalem destroyed by Babylon and so leads his family in to the wilderness of Arabia, c.600BC
>After messing around for 10 years, they decide to build a boat, and travel across the Pacific to the western coast of South America (probably)
>Lehi's sons split in to factions, immediately start warring
>A faction that mostly tries to stay true to God is called the Nephites, who strongly emphasize the messianic prophecies of Judaism
>After hundreds of years of warfare, Christ comes to the Nephites after his crucifixion and resurrection, descending from Heaven
>He repeats to them the sermon on the mount and teaches them His Gospel
>He leaves to go tend other sheep
>The Nephites live happily for a couple hundred years until they fall in to iniquity and apostasy and end up fulfilling the central prophecy of the book of mormon, which is:
>"Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; but inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence."
>The nephites are destroyed by the descendants of the other sons of Lehi (and others)
>after being on the run for thousands of miles, a guy name Moroni hides the records of their tragic civilization in the hopes that the truths contained therein would help their lost brethren (or future civilizations)

There you go. The Book of Mormon is essentially a tragedy of people continually falling in to iniquity and being punished until they are ultimately destroyed.

>>9732223
>Missing the point entirely

>>9732261
The concept that spirit is matter is definitely one of the more interesting ideas Mormonism brings to the table. Do you think it means Mormonism is inherently materialist?

Also the "getting your own planet" thing is honestly more literal than you're taking it. Yes, it's about living a divine sort of existence, but the central concept is that redeemed, divinized man will do exactly as God the Father did before, make their own worlds as he made his, redeem those worlds, etc. The main problem with the "getting your own planet" thing is that Mormonism promises endless increase in dominion and posterity (and even planets).

>>9732287
Not him, but as a Mormon I feel like it's actually a lot LESS literal than you're making it. I've very rarely heard anyone talk about getting literal planets. I always thought it was kind of like the concept of Buddha-realms in Buddhism. Certainly as you become more like Christ and more like Heavenly Father, you grow in spiritual capability. I think people in a lot of ways project their own realities outward, and as our internal reality becomes purer and we grow stronger spiritually, the reality that surrounds us begins to reflect the reality within us. In the process of exaltation after death, we are empowered to live fully within our own righteous sphere of spiritual influence, just as we currently live primarily within the spiritual sphere of our Heavenly Father. This mirrors closely the idea of Pure Lands and Buddha-realms to me, rather than being about literal planets. It may take the form of literal planets in many ways, but I think the spiritual principle is much larger than a simple material lordship over a cosmic dustmote.

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>>9730717
ahhh magic stones and magic underwear?? ahh, no thanks fuck wad.

>>9732287

It does seem to make Mormonism more materially grounded, let's say, than other religious traditions--it's sort of Judaic, I guess. A lot of Mormons say that they feel a kinship with Jews.

Perhaps I was downplaying the literalness of inheriting divine status and a planet. But it could still be considered a symbolic representation of one's spiritual progression, which is (hopefully) moving one towards exaltation. The goal isn't the planet itself, of course. One strives to become like God in a spirit of humility and meekness.

>The main problem with the "getting your own planet" thing is that Mormonism promises endless increase in dominion and posterity (and even planets).

Why do you consider it a problem?

>>9732305
I feel like Joseph Smith was pretty direct in the King Follett sermon and the lesser-known sermon immediately following it. He lays it out pretty explicitly that God the Father was once a man subject to his own Father, and that when exalted we will be Fathers and Mothers ourselves.

>>9732323
I mean the "getting your own planet" thing is an understatement, it implies only one planet. A God in Mormonism will have dominion over endless planets, their number eternally increasing.

I can't join a religion that says my skin is colored the way it is because of sin.

>>9732352
Right, I agree with that. The King Follett discourse is genius to me.

>>9732366
How do you know it isn't, though?

>>9732276
That doesn't sound as crazy as I assumed it would tbqh.

What do Mormon men commonly do for a living?

>>9732410
Really the craziest parts are the crossing of the Indian and Pacific oceans, and Christ ascending from Heaven, but crossing oceans isn't that hard when you already believe in a book that has Moses parting the Red Sea so the Hebrews can walk across, and Christ descending from heaven really isn't that weird to anyone who believes in his resurrection in the first place.

Obviously I'm biased because I'm a mormon, but the Book of Mormon is actually a good book in its own right whether you consider it scripture or not. I recommend giving it a read if you can get past the pseudo-KJV styling.

>>9732431
Most Mormon men that I know work in medical, mental health (I'm sure that's hilarious to a lot of non-Mormons), tech, finance, or do something with small business/entrepreneurship.

>>9732276
Is there any evidence for this? Like in dna or ruins or carvings or anything?

>>9732431

Business. But they're sort of all over the place.

>>9732376
The evolutionary explanation is more parsimonious.

By contrast, the sin explanation seems very much like a product of it's time.

>>9732431
They write self help books.
Admittedly theyre decent ones.

>>9732448
Honestly, that's a good question that I don't have a very good answer for. The LDS church funds a lot of mayanology studies for that reason, I think. Though I am a mormon, I don't consider the historicity of the Book of Mormon that important to me, personally. The values and truths espoused in the Book of Mormon are worth it in themselves, and whether the Book of Mormon is just an extended parable or an actual history is not a question I've spent much time on answering. It is one of our Articles of Faith, that we do not know everything, and that there is much yet to be revealed. I apply this to my personal beliefs as well. I do not know everything, and there is much I will yet learn about these things.

That said, the benefits of the church to my life have been substantial, as have the benefits of studying the Book of Mormon and the teachings of the Prophets. Christ told us that we would know false prophets by their fruits, and I have found the fruits of the LDS church to be exceedingly good for me, so I am a mormon despite admittedly having no strong evidence for the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

>>9732526
So im just wondering here. If different gods have different planets do those planets have a jesus equivalent or do those people live in sin?

>>9732539
Presumably every god has a son comparable to Jesus.

>>9732526
>delusional faggot

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>>9730717

I am not Mormon but I am related to Brigham Young and I live in the Provo area. Just trust me, Mormonism is a massive meme and there is a lot of anti-intellectual sentiment from Mormons.

>>9732556
WAYQ

>>9732276
>Moroni
>Moron, i
>i, moron

Mormons, everybody

>>9732539
I don't know. I'm not sure that different gods get different planets in this universe, versus their own universe of whatever size. I am not sure if there is a multiversal thing going on, or just planetary.

My conjecture would be that the Plan of Salvation as we have it here on Earth had Christ as a lynchpin, and this is Christ's world that we now live in. This world is the fruition of Christ's godhood. How far that extends past this physical Earth, I don't know.

I personally imagine that exaltation is a process that takes time. We are taught and trained and endowed with what tools we need. Currently, we exist in this world to learn to navigate the problem of good vs evil. This world is the current form of our academy. We don't graduate from this academy upon leaving this world and become immediately like Christ or God. We are in a process of Eternal Progression, wherein we become eternally more Christ-like, more God-like. I don't know what the stages of that progression would look like. I personally think it is beyond our current capacity to understand profitably, and so we are not taught the details. Our primary focus should be on proper conduct in this world. Questions of what we must do in the next life are better left to the next life to handle.

This is just my personal viewpoint and does not necessarily represent the Church's opinion.

>>9732559
>I am related to Brigham Young
Isn't that common as fuck?
Guy had 46 children.

>>9732560
what the fuck is WAYQ?

>>9732556
To me, the important part is that it is we, the readers, that are being taught. It doesn't matter whether the Nephites were a real people, or if they are simply a didactic tool. The lesson they teach us is the important part of their existence to me. It doesn't matter if there was no sam-i-am to like green eggs and ham. Green Eggs and Ham was written to teach little children something. Scripture is written to teach human beings something. My only question is, am I learning the lesson? I don't care about the rest.

>>9732586
you might as well just be go agnostic you little pussy. You're limiting yourself.
daddy's sky-boss is gonna be mad though huh?

>>9732095 Mormonism is the fakest bullshit, stop wasting your time.

>>9730717

Guys, god talks to me and told me what to write in this book.

Want me to prove any of these grand claims? Nope, you just gotta trust me ;D

>>9732547
And that jesus equivalent would die for the sins of the people on that planet? Would they all have to be crusified or would the manner of thier deaths matter?

>>9732592
Having standards and morals could be seen as limiting, yes, but all the commandments we are given are for our own benefit, not for the benefit of God. He doesn't need us to behave a certain way. He wants us to because it is what is best for us.

Following God is about choosing what is best instead of choosing what we desire at the moment. Is it limiting? In the sense that we get less of our petty desires in the short run. But in another sense it's freeing, because we are laboring toward our own best interests as individuals and as a society, and we achieve much greater rewards for ourselves in the long run.

I don't really see what you're getting at. Are you just trying to make me feel bad because I believe differently than you, or do you actually have something to say?

>>9732565
Well whats the churches opinion on the matter?

>>9732604
I just think you're literally retarded if you can't assume those positive ideas into your own subjective relationship with God.
Being associated with organizations like that is literally intellectual cancer. You're hurting humanity in the long-run. Good job, the G-man would be proud.

>>9732448
Fuck no there isn't

>>9732597
Why dont you believe bro?

>>9732611
>humanity
Lmao, and you dare rail against him, freaking hilarious.

>>9732556
They don't realize they're making excuses for Mormonism.

>>9732601
Only the death of the Son of God was enough to save us here on Earth. There's no reason to believe any other mechanism would work anywhere else- if there were a better way, God would have done that instead of sacrificing his Son. I don't know that the manner of death would matter, but crucifixion certainly makes a more powerful statement and a better symbol for the faith than almost any other method.

>>9732610
Everything he said is pretty orthodox.

>>9732616
explain how that's funny

>>9732597
More like:
"Guys, god talks to me and told me what to write in this book.

But don't take my word for it! Pray to God and ask him to reveal the truth of this document to you personally."

Stated right in the introduction page of the book of mormon

>>9732622
You are also spooked as fuck like him, just without any self-awareness.

>>9732620
So would that mean that other planets have romans that would cruxify people or what? Im not getting this. Do the other planets mirror ours?

Mormon bros should post more often. You guys are pretty cool.

>>9732625
sigh...
so you think humanity as an organization is a spook?
so is breathing you fucking tard. Somethings are paradoxical traps. There's a right and wrong way to organize.

>>9732610
If there is an explicitly stated one, I don't know it.

Pretty much every talk ever given by any of the prophets, apostles, or seventies is freely available from lds.org, though. You're welcome to look. BYU also has a nice wiki about mormonism. There is also FairMormon to answer a lot of these kinds of questions.

My knowledge is incomplete, and I acknowledge that. It may even be a gap in what we have revealed truth about, so we may simply all have to conjecture about it, like I did. As far as I know, this is the case.

>>9732632
>humanity as an organization is a spook?
If it's subordinating the ego(which it is), yes.
>there's a right and wrong way to organize.
I'm all ears.

>>9732631
I post a fair bit. I just usually never mention my religion unless someone asks, or it is a thread specifically about it. Probably the case for all of us here.

>>9732637
I don't necesarily know what the right thing is but I definitely know what it's not.
Submitting to organized religion is the weakest form of ego-subordination.
Like I said, he should just go agnostic and assume some values if he's going to be honest about this.

>>9732635
Thats unfortunate.

>>9732627
They would have some group that would kill their Christ. Not space Romans, though, every world is going to be unique, they're not clones.

>>9732631
Thanks, heathen friend.

>>9732644
The gist of what >>9732635
was saying is really all in the King Follett sermon, where Joseph Smith goes into this whole business with gods and planets and things. You can look it up. Definitely the starting resource to understand Mormon thought on this whole business.

>>9732651
So would every planet have a satan as well?

>>9732637
i fucking hate spookfags.
They're always deeply religious people and the pathetic irony of it all makes me lol in despair

>>9732659
I'm afraid an argument has yet to be found.
I'm an edgy atheist though.

>>9732664
an argument explaining how egoism isn't inherently good if you're not even fully aware of what makes yours function?
You're far beneath me faggot.

>>9732666
>an argument explaining how egoism isn't inherently good if you're not even fully aware of what makes yours function?
I wasn't advocating for egoism though, just pointing out how it was funny to bring the humanity spook as a substitute to the religion spook.

>>9732667
humanity is an incredibly vague term retard. I could have said monkey-snake-nature. Either way it's superior to organized religion.
fuck off.

>>9732668
>it's superior to organized religion.
How so?

>>9732658
Yep.

>>9732669
It's the acual nature of being anti-spooked dummy.

Naturally a mormon thread would get derailed by a couple of atheists/agnostics arguing about spooks

>>9730717
I thought about this earlier today. Joseph smith used a lot of hermetic techniques to treasure hunt, rock in a hat kind of stuff. In order to utilize something like that he had to have been extremely open minded. Also he "visited every church, and couldn't find the true church." - Which sentiment is common among those with a mystical foundation. Also when he went in the woods to pray he was overcome by an evil spirit, then afterwards saw Christ in an incarnate form. All of this agrees with that personality which has been "enlightened" over and over in history throughout many practices - Buddhists, neoplatonists, mystics. The Book of Mormon may be an expression of the mystical outlook, but that doesn't make it especially important considering how many have been written. And especially compared with those which give some sort of guidence in the evolution of a "spiritual man" such as those mentioned.

>>9730717
I'm not but I've read the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price. Pretty interesting, but they're so obviously frauds it's not even funny.

>>9732719
Ok, I agree with you mostly, especially since I came to the LDS church myself because of a mystical experience of my own, but I do believe there is a reason why Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon are important to ME, despite there being other revealed/inspired mystical texts.

In every time and to every people, the truth has been revealed. It has been accepted with varying degrees of understanding. It has been transmitted by the mystic to varying degrees of faithfulness. It has been transmitted by historians to varying degrees of accuracy. I spent years and years studying the faiths of the world, and my path echoed that of Joseph Campbell, the comparative mythologist, in that I voraciously devoured mythology and religion from every source, in order to ferret out its commonalities. I realized that these same core truths certainly were transmitted to many peoples in many times, but then, after a mystical experience, I realized there was only one dispensation of these same truths which was to MY people in MY time, and that was the dispensation begun by Joseph Smith in the 1830s and continued by the prophets today.

So, I certainly don't begrudge anyone who wishes to seek for truth elsewhere. There is truth to be found everywhere. God can be found by a sincere seeker in everything.

I have seen those things elsewhere, but Mormonism is the religion that teaches these same mystical things at home. It is the dispensation for my life. The truths therein may not be unique, just like all the churches on all the street corners of the world may not be unique, but it is the church that is MINE, on MY street corner, and so it is the church that is special to ME.

>>9732742
The LDS church just has too many fishy red flags indicating that it's an invention of man, like how they denied Black men the priesthood until conveniently, during the Civil Rights movement, the prophets discovered that God had changed his mind.

>>9732095
>Jesus came to America
>Indians got turned red as a punishment by God
>niggers have no souls
I only enjoyed the last part. Pity you caved in there

>>9732750
It is certainly an organization of fallible humans. I don't really take issue with that. I do believe in some things the church authorities are certainly opportunistic, but that doesn't really bother me, either. I think it's intelligent management. I know some of the general authorities and I know their hearts are in the right place. I believe in the divine guidance of the church, but only insofar as we as a church are faithful to God and his commandments.

Mostly, the church in my life facilitates my mystical practice and gives me a community that I would be completely lacking otherwise. It's an important part of my life, and frankly, I'm a big fan.

I don't take issue with people having negative views of the church, though.

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>>9732742
It's interesting, when I read the Book of Mormon I did feel a sense of pleasant calm (well, up until 4 Nephi, then it gets hella boring), and I liked talking to the missionaries (they couldn't answer why Nephi copies a dozen chapters of Isaiah though, lol). But the Mormon service I went to was terrible, the most boring thing I've ever done, and the gospel lessons after were elementary school level, just awful.

It helped me understand why people convert but it's also a controlling pseudo-cult based on fakery, so I wasn't convinced.

>>9732780
They couldn't answer why Nephi copies Isaiah? That's a super easy question, though. Nephi had Isaiah, and much other scripture, on the Plates of Brass attained from Laban. He mentions Isaiah is one of his favorite books, and even gives us his reasons himself for why he is including it. He says that he wants to persuade people to believe in the Lord, their redeemer, and he quotes clear sections about the coming messiah. He also seems concerned with the prophecies regarding the dispersion and gathering of the tribes. I conjecture that he must consider himself and his family to be evidence of the fulfillment of the dispersion of Israel, and he looks forward to a future gathering, along with the future messiah. The entirety of 1 and 2 Nephi is aimed at 1.) establishing his own legitimacy as king of the Nephites, and 2.) persuading his posterity to follow the commandments of God and to look forward to the coming of the Messiah and the gathering of the tribes. I can answer any specific questions you might have.

I'm sorry your church experience was so poor. Every ward is different, and quality of classes and services can vary, unfortunately.

>>9732742
Yeah you're right, it is a "living" gospel after all. And this has been a huge conflict for me for quite some time. Do I sacrifice my energy for this "living" gospel which may be corrupt, decaying, and widely misunderstood - or do I walk the path alone. Alone might not be the best decision, and I see that more clearly as I age. I know why a community like this exists, it's because a father loves his daughter, literally. Society raises children as much as parents do and a father does not want his daughter to be corrupted, and the world is terribly corrupt and evil. Anyone who sees this desires a place where they're not always fighting to safeguard pure love, that being the most desirable state of being, and the true metaphysic.. You're right friend.

>>9732780
The book has a lot of signs pointing to it being a product of man, and a product of its time. For example, the whole idea of a lost tribe of Israel in the Americas was a popular anthropological theory back then, before advancement in the field showed that there was no evidence for the idea.

>>9732796
I spent years studying Buddhism before converting to Mormonism. In Buddhism, they have what they call the triple gem, the three things a Buddhist is to take refuge in. They are the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. The Sangha is the community.

When I came to the LDS church, I felt I had a good understanding of Christ and the doctrine, which I had honed and development through years of study. But, I lacked a community. I had Christ. I had doctrine. But, I had no church. Without the church, I had no support for my personal path. I was faced with the prospect of being a hermit ascetic studying obscure, ancient texts for the rest of my life, without anyone to support my studies, or to share my insights with. I felt very alone at that.

The church isn't perfect, but neither am I. All that is important to me is that the church tries, and that I try. I like having a community, because it helps us each be stronger as members. It's the bundle-of-sticks-is-stronger-together thing.

>>9732822
What pulled you to the LDS church instead of other Christian churches ( and why Christianity over other religions)? Not asking in a confrontational way, but rather because I think conversion stories are interesting.

>>9732448
no, and there are mountains of evidence to the contrary

>>9732836
Well, I was fasting and studying the Gospel in the New Testament. I read Matthew 7:7-8, and it made a particular impact on me one particular night, just before Christmas:

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh
findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

It was as if Christ was giving me instructions. I felt closely connected with God and Christ. It was humanity I didn't feel connected with. For this period of time I was living as an ascetic, living in the desert alone, reading, fasting, meditating, praying. Christ was telling me, ask, and you shall receive an answer.

So I prayed, and I asked, asking "where is the true church? I've spent years studying with people in different churches but never found one worthy of joining. Where is the church that I should join? Who are the people I should live among? What is the lineage I should devote my energy to?"

And I received a vision of the Book of Mormon, which I had not read and had always dismissed as a complete crock, basically because I had been told by everyone else in society that it was a complete crock. By chance, the next day a man spoke to me on the street, asking a casual question, and when I turned to answer it was a missionary. I asked for a Book of Mormon and started reading it, and saw at play the principles of hermeticism, of christianity, of hinduism, all together in one book, and I knew I must have found my dispensation.

Might sound cheesy, but that's exactly how it happened.

I don't think of it as "choosing" christianity/mormonism over other things. I think there is truth, and there is not-truth. I simply follow the truth, and I have found enough of it in the LDS church that it is where I make my spiritual home.

>>9732793
Specifically why he copies so much of it when the Nephites already had the plates of brass and the following prophets say there isn't much room on the golden plates. Why was Nephi hogging the limited space on the valuable plates with text they already had?

Nephi's reasoning is silly anyway "the words pleaseth me, so I'll copy out a dozen chapters of them instead of summarising or quoting". Yet he heavily abridges the Jaredite records which you'd think were pretty valuable to preserve. It all smacks of being a fiction that Joseph Smith concocted.

>>9732887
No wait, Mormon is supposed to have abridged the Jaredite records, forget that.

>>9732887
It's not like they had tons of copies of these things. If it was written on something you had, and you wanted to preserve it, you'd write it down again. Nephi thought it was particularly important and worth preserving. In the event the brass plates were lost, his plates would still contain what he thought was important for his posterity.

The Jaredites were an interesting historical novelty, not passages prophesying the story and salvation of his entire people. Nephi's motivations were not a historian's motivations. He was trying to justify himself as a king, and then to inspire faith in his people.

>>9732822
Correct friend. Thanks

I like Mormons. I'm into the book itself because I want to peer at anything that can even remotely be considered canon in the Abrahamic religions. I go to a Mormon church because I'm bored and I have dreams of taking it over and turning it into a cult of my own, haha. But anyways. What irks me is the stupid rules and how they pressure you to keep them. Their silly prophets who produce a bunch of material whose only purpose seems to be to provide some basis for the chattering that is so necessary for the congregation. And actually, though I said I like Mormons, the feeling is fleeting. They are all pretty stupid and have ass backward beliefs. They treat the gospel as, well, the gospel, and are basically robots following their stupid commandments. I kind of hate them actually but they are nice lol. I dunno. I want to blow the establishment up like I am the Devil or something. I feel the power coursing through my veins. I only need to unleash it hahe. I mean I'm clearly superior to all of these bricks so perhaps I can unleash my will upon their hides, and bend them to my being, know what i'm sayin'?

>>9732802
david hatcher childress says otherwise

>>9733089
He doesn't have much evidence, though. And evidence is important.

This thread is a joke.

>>9734869
Is that supposed to be the punchline?

>>9732666
sick get, chad

>>9730717
Yes but I'm not a faggot so I don't bring it up because it isn't ever relevant.

>>9730744
What years and which mission? I was in Bacolod.

>>9735631
>Yes but I'm not a faggot so I don't bring it up because it isn't ever relevant.

If you're actually a believing Mormon then this makes me think you are psychopathic. How could a non-psychopath believe that anyone who doesn't believe what they believe will go to hell and not constantly be trying to tell other people about the truth and convince them to change their ways?

>>9735647
Because Mormons believe virtually no one goes to hell and it can all be worked out after this life. And 4chan is the last place to try to convert someone.

>>9735647
t. somebody who knows nothing of mormon soteriology

>>9732247
See him as the third best prophet.

>>9735844
>soteriology

that's a big word for someone with such a small dick lmao

>>9730778
>not embracing the loneliness, letting it overwhelm you, letting it transform the smallest social interaction into beautiful poetry
>not becoming a productive single member of your family ward
>not holding out faith for a miraculous encounter in this life or the next
enjoy the telestial kingdom faggot

>>9732173
Hardy's great stuff, Understanding is really good but like he says it's just scratching the surface. I read his BoM Reader's Edition for personal study most of the time.

Check out his TTC course if you haven't already, Great Minds of the Eastern Intellectual Tradition.

>>9732287
>The concept that spirit is matter is definitely one of the more interesting ideas Mormonism brings to the table. Do you think it means Mormonism is inherently materialist?
Honestly not in the same way an agnostic materialist would think of it. It's not a claim that spirit is actually just really nice matter, it's a claim that matter is just spirit that hasn't figured everything out yet. Here's one of the most underrated parts of the King Follett discourse:

>We say that God Himself is a self-existing being. Who told you so? It is correct enough; but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principles? Man does exist upon the same principles. God made a tabernacle and put a spirit into it, and it became a living soul.

So the theory is that just as God is self-existing, so are we, so is primal chaos/matter, and it just needs to be improved by someone who has better ideas.

I have some unformed theories about God-nature being something independent that intelligent beings can strive for, can't make on their own but can be uplifted by one who went before, with no beginning to the chain.

>>9732674
>actual nature
sounds pretty spooky to me

>>9738370
again spookfag semantics.
monkey-snake-nature = humanity = state of not being spooked/honest with ego/self.
stop being retarded.

>>9738379
it seems politeness is one of the spooks u lost when u achieved ur actual nature. disappointing.

>>9730717
Where to find mormon gf/wife ;(

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>>9738597

why do religious people come to 4chan? even the blue boards are filled to the brim with sin

>>9738884
the religious types who post here are on the whole pretty stupid and/or delusional

>>9738884
/pol/ agrees with our politics, for the most part.

>>9732095
Because having the visitor center at the Great Salt Lake temple staffed purely by sexy young women from across the globe is DEFINITELY normal

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False church and unsaved

>>9738884
So is the whole world and many of the societies we live in but we have to deal with it.

>>9738925
(You)

>>9732220
The Mormon conception of apotheosis and the conception of the Orthodox Church are very different

How come God changed his mind so many times on polygamy in a span of like 60 years?
Why did Joseph Smith lie about being able to read hieroglyphics?
How come the church is so focused on making money? There are literally billions at stake with it

Why did God change his mind on black people?

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>>9739389
>making money

>>9739400
I understand other churches do it. The Mormon church is quite small yet authorities in the church have trip digit salaries. just seems weird how much money the church makes and then gives to its highest authorities

>>9739441
Can you direct me to their salary information? As far as I know, no one in the church receives any kind of salary, except within educational roles. I would be happy to look at contrasting information.

>>9739459
General Authorities get salaries, I guess you could call them stipends, though a few of them are independently wealthy so I don't know if they draw it. Someone leaked some legit-seeming documents claiming they were getting 100k+, which probably wouldn't seem that immodest to, say, a heart surgeon like Nelson. I'm sure seventies, if they get stipends, don't get as much, and there's less than two hundred GAs for fifteen million members so I doubt it's a drain in any case, especially as the church has billion-dollar-plus assets.

Someone was saying things like a million-dollar hunting lodge only GAs could use, I don't know. They're not doing any conspicuous consumption and they're traveling too much to be spending it on hookers and blow, especially at their ages.

>>9739459
The GAs do, but it's really a pittance for what amounts to a global executive level job.

>>9739515
Of course most of them are quite wealthy already from what I can tell, especially ifntheyre from Utah because Mormons are hesitant to work with people outside the faith in business projects

>>9739534
Guys like Uchtdorf, yeah, executives, then high-end civil servants like Oaks probably made about the same, with the ones that came in through CES like Bednar, Eyring, Holland taking a big pay raise. Holland was even poor as a kid.

I gather they have a lot of disagreements that they don't talk about in public. I'd love to be a fly on the wall, or see transcripts or something.

>>9739399
Don't be disrespectful anon! They don't like being asked that question because it's very uncomfortable!

>>9739399
He didn't. It was said that the blacks would receive the priesthood the last of all races, so they were banned from the priesthood until the 70s, when they decided at least one person from all the other races was in the priesthood, so blacks could come in now, too.

That's what they get for being neutral in the war in heaven.

>>9732305
The LDS cosmology is much more Eastern in any case. For example, proxy work. It's so much more than just baptizing dead people - it's actual rites being offered up in the name of deceased ancestors and relatives, for the purpose of binding the family of mankind together. Practically Chinese. Are there any other Christ-worshiping denominations that practice ancestor veneration? Not to mention the love of hierarchy and community, beehive and wheel imagery, and so on.

>>9730717
christianity fanfiction

>>9739399
He didn't. The Jews are God's chosen people, silly Goy

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>>9740162
>Mfw Mormons killed people to defend this stupid garbage

>>9730717
I wanna have sexual relations with a pure mormon girl so badly. I hear that they have wards full of single and horny mormon women, because all of the men are off on missions. Fuck, I want to convert so badly.

>>9741378
Convert to real Christianity that can actually save your soul.

>>9735631
Baguio 2010-2012

>>9732366
Mormon here, the scriptures are not clear what the 'mark' means and church authorities have distanced themselves from saying darker skin is a curse.

As with the 'no blacks get the priesthood' meme this idea is spread by people who let there own prejudice guide them as there is no doctrinal support for either sentiment

>>9732750
This was never an official doctrine to deny blacks the priesthood.
The church, just like any other organization has flawed people.
Jospeh Smith baptized blacks if that helps

What really gets me are Joseph Smith's attempts to "translate" the Bible and weird shit like the Book of Moses. If the man can be seen to be a liar w/r/t his language skills and the origins of some of these writings I'm not sure why I should take any of what he says seriously. Frequent Mormon talk of "reformed Egyptian" also sets off alarms in my head. There's no denying that the Book of Mormon is an impressive achievement though, I suppose, and I like some of the doctrinal principles in theory.

>>9742060

Mormons don't worship Joseph Smith, or believe that he was perfect. That would be idolatry. It's funny that so many people's attacks on the Mormon church are based in their expectation--so misguided and ill-informed as it is--for perfection and absolute consistency. It's a "restored" church, which means that it's necessarily "living" and "dynamic." Sure, you can say that's a cop-out explanation for its continual changes (which, in the skeptic's mind, would point to its man-made character). But if something is mystically conceived, or owes its existence to a fallible human being's transcendent experiences--and if this something is constructed in accordance with new revelation, literal modern-day revelation--then of course it's naturally going to be a dynamic, fluid, evolving organization.

I'll just paraphrase Emerson when he writes: Why should we not have a religion of revelation to us? Why should we strictly have to cling to the revelations of old prophets?

>>9742649

But there are, of course, going to be a few dubious experiences and claims along the way. That's inevitable.

>>9742649
>Mormons don't worship Joseph Smith, or believe that he was perfect.
Every totalitarian cult claims the same.

>>9742669

If you think that Mormons do, you don't know anything about them or their faith.

>>9742679
Your lack of reading comprehension and failure at basic logic is also emblematic of totalitarian cults.

You know who else tries to correct someone that's wrong about them?

Totalitarian.

Cults.

Mormon
At BYU right now
please someone be on here and meet with me thanks

also love church history, will give straight answers about jose smith

>>9742669
To be fair, Scientologists definitely don't worship Joseph Smith or think he was perfect.

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>>9730717
Have you considered, you will never be a god?

Look up the CES letter bitches

>>9743080
If you knew church history you wouldn't be mormon, ya retatd.

>>9742017
>>9742030
Jospeh Smith baptized blacks if that helps
No, it doesn't help. It just shows that the church is willing to turn it's back on people due to racism. If the church is as fallible as you claim, then how can I be sure it won't go back to its racist ways?

>>9742030
It was official doctrine because Brighman Young said it was the case, he also said as seen in the Journal of discourses that anything he said was doctrine. He also professed the Adam God doctrine, which is now repudiated.

You're delusional dude.
You'll never be a god.

>>9743080
>tfw also at BYU
life is good, brother

>>9743533
You're retarded

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http://cesletter.com

KOLOBfags are brainwashed by a corporation that spent more on a mall than charity since the 80s

>>9743402
>>9743558
CES letter is really boring basic stuff, mostly just a guy whining because he didn't do his research. At least bring up salamanders or Porter Rockwell or something.

>>9743619
It's good research. Church hides a lot of it and FARMS (attached to BYU Maxwell institite) verified a lot of it.

You gotta feed these cunts baby food. I've seen it work.

>>9743643
No it's not, it's literally a guy that walked into some anti and got pissed that twenty years of Sunday School wasn't spent solely on rocks in hats. FARMS doesn't even exist anymore you ignorant scum.

>>9743714
Wait, I don't understand. Are you saying that it's a poor criticism because it doesn't hit all the problems with mormonism and is too superficial in its debunking or are you a mormon who thinks the inconsistencies it points out aren't real?

>>9743738
I'm saying it's embarrassing for you to be waving it around like some one-shot-kill refutation of the faith when the vast, vast, vast majority of members will roll their eyes and move on.

The inconsistencies it points out are real, totally real, but they're entirely the writer's problem. Nobody cares if Joseph Smith used one folk magic instead of another. Nobody cares if the Book of Abraham papyrae have a secular meaning too. There's always going to be a reassuring explanation, there always has been, and the movement is based on personal spiritual factfinding anyway, so it's not like any amount of non-spiritual facts could dissuade someone.

>>9743714
The research was verified in large part by FARMS which did exist and which is now absorbed by the BYU Neil Maxwell Institute. Are you a shill for Mormons or are you just an angry brainlet?

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>Former Buddhist-anon has moved on
>all that's left is muh kolob posting
He had such interesting ideas too.

>>9743764
Yep, verified in large part and then the church went "oh yeah lol I guess people would be weirded out just walking into seerstones" and they published a picture of the seerstone they have and put a bunch of history stuff out as the Gospel Topics essays.

>>9743759
>>9743738
Lots of people I've know have been woken up by it. It's a great first resource and has led people to leave the church.

Do you not want people to wake up?

>>9743779
>woken up
>by things Hugh Nibley covered in the 1960s
so hard-hitting
so brave
truly saving souls from this horrible cult that didn't present historical minutiae to them

>>9743759
>I'm saying it's embarrassing for you to be waving it around like some one-shot-kill refutation of the faith when the vast, vast, vast majority of members will roll their eyes and move on.
I'm not the guy who posted it I was just curious because your response was confusing.

Honestly as a non-mormon looking at this from the outside this seems kind of ridiculous that that holy book has so many errors compared to some other holy books that are at least based on historical places that actually existed. I mean, I may doubt that Moses parted the red Sea or that he even had any powers, but I don't doubt that the Egyptian had chariots.

The book of Mormon fails to satisfy even these basic requirements, there is no archeological evidence of any of the civilizations described in it and the most obvious explanation is that Joseph Smith just made it up based on the current anthropological theories and rumors of his day.

I mean, why waste so much mental energy defending something that common sense says is silly?

>>9743773
Totally, it has done a ton of good. I've seen it help people leave the false mormon church. Why someone against Mormonism as truth would attack it, I don't know.

>>9743786
The church deliberately lies about these things, I've seen it work. It's short, not esoteric or overly scholarly, it presents verified info. What's your issue dude, it's a doorway to better info. Are you a mormon shill?

Why do you care how people get info?

>>9742649
My only expectation for a man who claims to receive divine revelation is for him to not be the author of very obviously falsified documents and make grand claims about his ability to read documents he actually cannot. It's not even subtle trickery at that point. I don't expect "perfection," but I don't trust a proven liar.

>>9743788
The dudes gotta be a shill. I've seen the CES letter help people leave the cult.

>>9743789
I never said I was against Mormonism as truth. It is true. I was against people trotting out boring anti material because that's seriously Jehovah Witness YOU HAVE TO SAY HIS NAME level stupid. If you want to step with us come up with something exciting.

>>9743788
Not having any evidence is the point. You wouldn't have to develop faith in God if He were walking around doing miracles all day, it's an extra leap of faith. And dismissing the Book of Mormon just because it touches on things that are important to its stated target audience is really intellectually incurious.
http://nauvoo.com/library/card-bookofmormon.html

>>9743802
PREACH

>>9743806
>implying they weren't leaving because they didn't want to feel guilty about having sex
>implying the CES letter wasn't just a handy excuse

>>9743802
>very obviously falsified
I bet you think he was a convicted con artist too.

>>9743810
Oh, I see. You're just a mormon who's still blinded. I get your outrage.

Like I say CES was verified by FARMS which was absorbed by NAM institute at BYU. It has helped people I know to see the light.

You are nothing.
You will never be a god.

>back-and-forth about truth claims
>actual discussion about theology out the window
You do realize there are other places on the internet to fight about whether the Book of Mormon is true or not, right?

>>9743817
People who leave Scientology just couldn't love up to it's morals.

That's what you sound like.

Mormon bitch

>>9743822
You don't know how to read, do you?

I don't care if the claims in the CES letter were verified. Most of them were actually common knowledge. They have nothing to do with whether the Church is true. They have a million alternative explanations that would allow the Church to be true. The people that you saw leave the Church because of it all had, every one of them, some sort of sexual sin they didn't want to struggle with. I guarantee it.

>>9743821
Or rather, very obviously the creation of Joseph Smith's mind and not actually a "translation" of any ancient document. Which would be fine, I suppose, if such works weren't masquerading as translations in the first place.

>>9743834
Nah, there's no alternative explanation, just delusion.

Why so obsessed with sex?
People leave scientology cause they can't love up tot the morals.

You'll never have a mormon goddess wife to populate a planet with.

>>9743835
Come on. Say it. "Convicted con artist." Then pull up some court records.

DO IT.

>>9743847
>Why so obsessed with sex?
People who leave the church always are, I don't know why. It's never coffee. Ask your friends about their porn habits.

>>9743848
You'll never be a god.

Come on, say it.

You've lived a lie cause you're a stupid bitch

>>9743857
People can leave scientology, but can't leave scientology alone.

>>9743848
I'm not sure what that has to do with him misinterpreting Egyptian papyri and people later just deciding to write it off by saying "so what if he couldn't read it? He was inspired anyway" ignoring the claims he made in the first place.

>>9743857
I have sex while drinking coffee bitch.
Wanna know why people have sex, cause it's not a sin. You're just a mormon slave.

>>9743857
To be fair, porn use is pretty ubiquitous within the church as well, hence the need for church authorities to bring it up constantly.

>>9743865
So you're actually just a butthurt ex-Mormon that didn't think being cut off from the Church would be this lonely? Should have doubted your doubts before you doubted your faith man.

>>9743871
http://www.boap.org/LDS/Hugh-Nibley/TrFac.html

>>9743877
I rest my case.

>>9743881
Yeah. It's really a terrible thing, and I'm proud of the guys that manage to work through it. Some of them just feel so guilty they snap, though, and they find the first anti-Mormon tract they can and jump into it. They're still slaves to their lust though.

>>9743882
You seem oddly focused on sex, porn, and loneliness. I wonder why?

Q:"Joseph Smith was factually wrong in translations, why is that?"

A: IT'S CAUSE YOU LIKE SEX!!!

>>9743897
Because I know what it takes for people to leave the Church and babby's first anti pamphlet isn't it?

Also http://www.boap.org/LDS/Hugh-Nibley/TrFac.html

>>9743889
Youre a slave of a cult, others enjoy their bodies.

Cucked by old Joe.
Youd let Joe send you ona mission and fuck your wife huh?

>>9743906
>No one ever leaves a cult except when they are sex crazed.

Being this retarded.

Cult arbitrarily says don't do something, realize something is fine, realize cult is for bitches who believe they'll be gods

>>9743916
You're admitting it was about sex.

Why is it always about sex?

>>9743810
>Not having any evidence is the point. You wouldn't have to develop faith in God if He were walking around doing miracles all day, it's an extra leap of faith. And dismissing the Book of Mormon just because it touches on things that are important to its stated target audience is really intellectually incurious.
But that doesn't make any sense in the historical context. If Joseph Smith wanted people to take the Book of Mormon on faith alone as some test, why would he have written it in a way that appeals to the prevailing secular theories of the age? It seems like, in its early stages, the evidence was a huge selling point.

>>9743928
I had left the church long before having sex, it is nice though. I'm just not a retard.

>>9743930
If Joseph Smith had intended the book to act as physical evidence, why would he have taken such pains to ask the reader to get spiritual confirmation of it first?

>>9743957
Cause he was a rusemaster
And he wanted that 14 year old pussy
And married pussy

>>9743928
My sister has a family, raised kids in the church, her family left because she looked at mormon evidence. How is this one sex?

>>9743957
Because he was covering all his bases. He wanted it to be palatable to peoples' rational minds so he appealed to their worldview, even adding in a bit about how the natives they were displacing had actually killed God's chosen and rejected Jesus, to make them feel better about taking their land. But since a whole new book was a tall order, he added in the 'you need to pray and it will all make sense' stuff to seal the deal.

If any of you poor souls need your loved ones to see the light, recommend the CES Letter. Print it out and share.

Truth will shine through.

One truth will lead to more, which brings freedom.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ErdgY6FkxI

Here's their retarded temple ceremony

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Here's their magic underwear

>>9738216
Literally autistic

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Secret handshake #1

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Secret handshake #2

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Secret handshake #3

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Secret handshake #4

>>9743407
fight me

>>9743533
ayyy what up

>>9744089
You've already fucked yourself up

>>9744095
what do you mean?

>>9743978
>>>reddit.com/r/exmormon/
making me cringe

>>9744006
>paul gives multiple versions of the same story in the bible
>its fine

>jos smith gives different versions of the same story
>fake news

>>9744024
info on kinderhook plates is from William Clayton

>>9744030
truth is the understanding of what a sealing is, and that it is different from a marriage

>>9744038
>>9744048
>>9744105
>what are symbols

>>9744104
i can give an more in- depth answer if you want, but it'd require other doctrines/beliefs

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Mormon vaults

>>9744121
No need for your lies.
You will never be a god.

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MORMONISM IS LIES
YOU WILL NEVER BE A GOD
BE FREE
TASTE THE SWEET AMBROSIA

>>9743770
I'm still around, I just don't have anything to contribute, really. I'd be happy to answer any questions or anything.

Isn't there some /x/-tier rumor that there are demons roaming the lower levels of the Salt Lake Temple?

>>9743439
You have to separate the gospel, or the teachings from the people sometimes. From my experience most mormons are good people.

>>9743470
It's been stated by Brigham himself and other authorities that during the 1850s church leaders spoke in rhetorical and emotional terms in an attempt to hearken their listeners to the word.

Brigham Young appears to have believed and taught Adam-God, but he never developed the teaching into something that could be reconciled with LDS scripture and presented as official doctrine. Therefore, we simply don't know what Brigham Young meant, and modern leaders have warned us about accepting traditional explanations of Adam-God. Since the Church has rejected it, we won't be able to answer the question until the Lord sees fit to reveal more about it.

This is why faith comes into play, but of course, many will denounce it as silly.

>>9744483
They thinks it's silly cause it is

>>9744178
:^)

>>9744275
I don't have any more questions, I'd just like to hear more of your thoughts. I've enjoyed my study of Eastern religions a lot more than I thought I would, especially, funny you should mention it, Pure Land. I think there's a lot we can gain from looking at the way they see things as opposed to this Platonic abstraction nonsense the mainstream heretics came up with.

Like one thing I've been thinking is Buddha-nature or Nirvana and godhood, like maybe there is one nature that anyone who ascends to that level shares in? Not a developed thought but it could explain omnipotence/omniscience/omnibenevolence of an ascended being.

oh look someone in the 1800s got a fact wrong, better trash the restoration

>>9745179
You're retarded
The guy who got the facts wrong was supposedly told then by god.
Debunked

Will never be a god