Redpill me on Aleister Crowley

he likd saten

What went on in his head? Did he talk to the dead?

File: monk crunk.jpg (507KB, 1047x1500px) Image search: [Google]

507KB, 1047x1500px

>>9726036
he liked sex and wrote poor prose.

babby's first occult book

he wasn't particularly good at writing "manual" style books nor at writing "crazy rambling" style books, not was he scholarly in his approach. not much to gain from reading him unless you are going to drink the coolaid and become a thelemite or some shit like that, which may be useful if there's a particular girl that you want to fuck and is into that but not much beyond that

File: Aleister_Crowley,_Magus.png (439KB, 869x1104px) Image search: [Google]

439KB, 869x1104px

Probably your archytypal occultists. In terms of modern western esotericism, he is only eclipsed by Helena Blavatsky. Still, he is a big part of the reason we see the mishmash of new age eastern and western beliefs.

Influenced L ron Hubbard, Jimmy Page, The Beatles, etc. A student of his, Jack Parson was a big name in jet propulsion and has a crater on the moon named after him.

Crowley was a record setting mountain climber, decent chess player, and some say very good poet. Hung out with various high society types.

Red pill on him? He was rascist, aristocratic, but also encouraged degeneracy. Some claim he sexually abused kids, Iwouldn't be suprised.

He could be described as a syncretic satanic black gnostic illuminist, if you like. Some put him in the pagan Pan worship camp.

Some claim he was a spy during WWII, but that aspect never interested me much.

Had a lot of sex with men and women, did a lot of drugs, spent a lot of money, had a massive corpus of writtings, did a lot of "Magick." Obviously he was very driven.

Pretty interesting figure, but there is a lot of hype.

Personally I find his literature to be super dense and esoteric such that it is a chore to read.

File: 17884638_385576918490678_1180680817281436619_n.jpg (65KB, 846x600px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 846x600px

>>9726246
>he wasn't particularly good at writing "manual" style books nor at writing "crazy rambling" style books, not was he scholarly in his approach. not much to gain from reading him unless you are going to drink the coolaid and become a thelemite or some shit like that, which may be useful if there's a particular girl that you want to fuck and is into that but not much beyond that
Again?

>>9726688
>>9726586
>>9726594

>>9726696
>"Eclipsed by Helena Blavatsky"
Bottom Jizzle

>>9726712
I personally like Crowley as a historical figure more, but Blavatsky's students have been involved with the UN. Her new age amalgamation of east and west has been pushed by every "spiritual leader" in the modern era. Theosophy literally had an affect on Nazi ideology.

>>9726696
>>9726740
Wouldn't the 'greatest' modern occultist not reveal themselves?

Edgy autist that saw his wrongs in the last moments of his life.

>>9726760
>saw his wrongs in the last moments of his life.
>"wrongs"
Lel. Also,
[CITATION MISSING]

>>9726740
>>9726750
>>9726712
While the Lucius Trust may be UN affiliated, it's been largely denuded of core Theosophical teachings.

Meanwhile, oragnized has given me access to a surprisingly large network of "in the field" type practitioners, from archaeology, to music production, to law, to local gov, to uni professors.

I've routinely been stunned by how many academic departments have a Thelemite in them; one of my good professor buddies is an old-school Typhonian - does work on African ethnography chasing down Grant's speculation on Ophidian cults.

>>9726740
Blavatsky was OK, but I just don't think she made as many positive contributions to modern occultism. I also find her writings inferior to Crowley's but obviously he liked her enough to make her an honorary Magistra Templi in the A.'.A.'.

>>9726036
chutup fagit. crowley was a LARPer.

>>9726857
they're all larpers my man
magick, (as an umberlla term for several hypotheses), can be easily falsified, and is demonstrably, not real

>>9726036

Used made-up magical systems of seemingly endless complexity on impressionable young people to meme them into having gay sex with him.

/x/ please leave

>>9726766
Got him confused with Anton Lavey but he was rumored to say "I'm perplexed." He was edgy as fuck though.

>>9726750
The greatest modern occultist would hide in plain sight.

>>9726874
So, how did he make up direct translations of Coming Forth by Day?

Did he make up the Greek Magickal Papyri or the Sloane MSS?

If yes, please give citations given I host all of the above in my archive ( >>9726573 ).

>>9726884
No.

>>9726885
His wife reports a quiet death with a peal of thunder.
Residents at Netherwood (the cleaner) retell that he was pacing in his kitchen when he dropped dead.

>>9726885
>>9726895
>Also, LaVey never, ever, recanted his position and if you can prove otherwise, I'd love to see it.

>>9726887
More or less.

>>9726895

Oh, great, the "crowley expert" is here to educate all of us about what magic REALLY is.

Fuck off dude. Obviously I'm talking about his larp as a prophet.

>>9726921
>Oh, great, the "crowley expert"
I notice you use scare quotes despite the fact I'm probably the only person on 4chan who has read his unpublished documents page for page.

I'm sorry you don't accept the Prophet.
As punishment for this spiritual transgression, I hereby condemn you to follow the Natural Orbit of your own primordially pure True Will in perfect harmony and agape.

>>9726872
>"the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will is demonstrably not real"

Care to demonstrate?

>>9726036
Greatest Addams family member.

>>9726955
Or, more impressively refute the findings of:

See:
>Neurotheology
>Shamanism: A Biopsychophysical Paradigm
>Kabbalah: A Neurocognitive Approach to Mystical Experiences
>Kabbalah and Psychoanalysis
>A Felt Sense: More Explorations of Psychoanalysis and Kabbalah
>Making Sense of Things: Archaeology of Sense Perception.
>Memes, Genes, and Human History: Darwinian Archaeology

He was a repressed homo and Christian who combined it with Mesmerism, Egyptian mythology, and spiritualism. The result was Crowleyanity.

>>9726959
Hehe I always wondered if they modeled Uncle Fester after middle-aged Crowley.

>>9726963
>Kabbalah
confirmed meme tier

>>9726970
>a repressed homo
I don't think anyone who reads his commentary on boipucci can call the dude "repressed".

Also he was bi as fuck.

>Mesmerism
I keep seeing this meme.

>Egyptian mythology
More like operative Egyptian rituals.

This ignores the influence of Tantra, Greek mysticism ala the GMP, the Neoplatonic facets from Chaldean Oracles, Enochian, the Yazidi implications, and other various Islamic bits, being a huge Ferdowsifag.

>>9726036
He was very popular in Serbia in 2004.

>>9726982
...Theravada Buddhism, Taoism

>>9726979
?
Wow, I sure am glad just saying "meme" negates like 2800 years of historicity in practice as well as recent neurological studies on the phenomenology of religious experience.

>>9726984
Interestingly he still sorta is in that region. Croatia hosts one of the five Grand Lodges of the OTO.

>>9726895
>>9726900
>>9726938
>>9726963
>>9726982
Fuck off charlatan

>>9726987
the list could go on

>>9727000
>charlatan
What, exactly, am I selling? As a curator of esoteric texts I require neither your time or attention, unless you're expressly interested in my collection.

>Also, why do you seem incapable of functionally addressing any of my points?

>>9727000
Charlatan (noun): a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill
>falsely claiming
>falsely
If you see thru him so easily, you shouldn't have any trouble refuting his assertions, or debating him on any of the topics that have been discussed thus far. Right?

>>9727018
Don't need to. Whether he's right or he's wrong doesn't negate the fact that he's name dropping to boost his pride. Killing the thread as well.

>>9726036
http://www.erwinhessle.com/writings/

>>9727036
>>9727017
>>Also, why do you seem incapable of functionally addressing any of my points?

>>9727037
Oh man I'd almost forgotten that name.

>>9727036
Where is the substantiation that he's "name dropping" and not just participating in the incredibly rare practice of Citation? And
>whether he's right or wrong
Means you have no idea wtf charlatan means, after having JUST had 2 definitions presented to you. It's OK, we get that not understanding simple concepts probably makes you realize you have an IQ in the double digits.

>>9727041
anything to say about erwin's 'interpretations'?

>>9727059
Not really.
They can stand or fall on their own merit.

>>9726036
Extremely poorly thought out theology, couldn't write a decent sentence of prose to save his life, plagiarized most of his "system", obsessed with his image to a pathological degree, bad with money.

>>9727117
Yeah, he was so obsessed with his image that he sat back and did nothing while being accused of everything from satanism to murder, while his associates urged him to go to court, and several of whom stopped associating with him unless he would bring slander and libel charges against these people.
>plagiarized
~t. Doesn't understand what syncretism is
>bad with money
yet somehow died with a safe full of the Order's money under his bed
>poorly thought out theology
Such as?
>couldn't write prose
examples pleasenthanks?

>>9727117
>Extremely poorly thought out theology
Like?

>couldn't write a decent sentence of prose to save his life
K. Not even pic related?

>plagiarized most of his "system"
I mean, there's CLEARLY a bibliography in M:TP and makes extensive use of footnote citations for everything from formal logic to Tyndall to Coming Forth by Day to Questions of King Milinda.

>bad with money
He was financially independent until like 1925, which was most of his life, and he died with a lockbox full of cash under his bed.

File: wpid-aleister-crowley-quote-to-read-a.jpg (55KB, 510x383px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 510x383px

>>9727134
>pic related.

>>9727132
>~t. Doesn't understand what syncretism is
Also OBVIOUSLY has not read any number of the unpublished commentaries on important Libri such as 333, 65, etc.

>Reads Nietzsche once

>>9727159
Crowley's philosophy of Will appears to be closer to Schelling, and by extension Schope.

File: masson1.jpg (113KB, 746x1024px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 746x1024px

>>9727166
>>9727159
>Crowley's philosophy of Will is CLOSEST to Bataille, but ol' GB was some decades after Crowley.

Aleister Crowley was just a guy who loved fuckin and cummin

>>9727234

Is there such a thing as guys who *don't*?

Crowley was a poet of the highest order and if you're willing to read his books you will be enriched as a person. I recommend Liber Al Legis and The Book of Lies; as a primer I would recommend learning the Tarot.

>>9726036

Up there with Nietzsche for being taken at face value when making a statement that was not intended to be

>>9727293
Your hair was full of roses in the dewfall as we danced,
The sorceress enchanting and the paladin entranced,
In the starlight as we wove us in a web of silk and steel
Immemorial as the marble in the halls of Boabdil,
In the pleasuance of the roses with the fountains and the yews
Where the snowy Sierra soothed us with the breezes and the dews!
In the starlight as we trembled from a laugh to a caress,
And the God came warm upon us in our pagan allegresse.
Was the Baile de la Bona too seductive? Did you feel
Through the silence and the softness all the tension of the steel?
For your hair was full of roses, and my flesh was full of thorns,
And the midnight came upon us worth a million crazy morns.
Ah! my Gipsy, my Gitana, my Saliya! were you fain
For the dance to turn to earnest? - O the sunny land of Spain!
My Gitana, my Saliya! more delicious than a dove!
With your hair aflame with roses and your lips alight with love!
Shall I see you, shall I kiss you once again? I wander far
From the sunny land of summer to the icy Polar Star.
I shall find you, I shall have you! I am coming back again
From the filth and fog to seek you in the sunny land of Spain.
I shall find you, my Gitana, my Saliya! as of old
With your hair aflame with roses and your body gay with gold.
I shall find you, I shall have you, in the summer and the south
With our passion in your body and our love upon your mouth -
With our wonder and our worship be the world aflame anew!
My Gitana, my Saliya! I am coming back to you!
-Aleister Crowley

I'm inclined to agree with you, anon.

>>9726895
What is your trip a reference to? I think it is an industrial album but I can't remember by who

>>9727305
Ape of Thoth
>google

>>9727293
>93
>Crowley was a poet of the highest order
Lol. I don't even think that and I'm a Thelemite.
His poetry was largely trash.

>The Book of Lies
^This, however, is great...but I'd be disinclined to call it poetry (though for the Crowley newb it may as well be taken as such).

https://www.poemhunter.com/best-poems/aleister-crowley/the-neophyte/

>>9727304
The one I posted just above is good too, but man you REALLY have to cherry pick to find GOOD poems in his Books of Oath.

On the other hand, I think he was a STELLAR playwright and his version of Tell-Tale was brilliant.

Also, the last chapter of Knox om Pax has some damn fine poems too lemme hunt 'em down.

>>9727305
No, it's a reference to Thoth's scribe, the baboon.

>>9727304
Cherchez la femme

>>9727309
Oh I thought it was The Ape of Naples by coil :)

>>9727310
Thelema to me is poetic; in the same way I see freudianism as a literature and not a science.

File: Claudia.jpg (16KB, 300x409px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 300x409px

>>9727311
Speaking of women Thelemite poets, Claudia Canuto de Menezes has some stellar shit and is a professor down in Brazil.

>>9727310
>Also, the last chapter of Knox om Pax has some damn fine poems too lemme hunt 'em down.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/konx02.htm#The Stone of Abiegnus

THE SUSPICIOUS EARL
There was a poor bedevilled Earl
Who saw a Witch in every girl,
A Wehr-wolf every time one smiled,
A budding Vampire in a child,
A Sorcerer in every man,
A deep-laid Necromantic plan
In every casual word; withal
Cloaked in its black horrific pall
A Vehmgericht obscenely grim,
And all designed—to ruin him!

He saw in every passer-by
Black Magic and the Evil Eye,
Interpreting the simplest act
As being a Satanic Pact.
Of course at times there were a few
In some sort victims of the crew;
For when his Countess coughed or sneezed,
“Obsessed!” the poor old fellow wheezed.
...
The Earl in question was:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bennet,_7th_Earl_of_Tankerville

>>9727315
Fuck Coil.

>>9727331
>fuck coil
Fuck you tryhard.

>>9727342
Fuck Coil.
Fuck Throbbing Gristle.
Fuck Genny P.
Fuck Billy Breeze.

Long live Zero Kama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCI8CVcJJ2M

>>9726036
he was friends with pessoa

>>9727348
Are they using a Theremin? Or some kinda whistle/pipe? Or synth?

>>9727348
Why would I listen to that when I could just listen to Bobby Beusoleil

>>9727357
>All instruments on this recording were solely made from human bones and skulls

>>9727363
>Bobby Beusoleil
Why listen to Bobby B when I can listen to the Man Himself?
https://youtu.be/XghYCnDnFy0

>>9727369
>doesn't post "Garbage Dump"
Oh well you tried.

>>9727375
I was gonna try to smart-ass you but you're sorta right. Take your pick, it's all good.
https://youtu.be/i8I4OYHfXIM
https://youtu.be/3WTj4L5iBDo
https://youtu.be/HOTnvPE_LMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFnm5g7g0MQ&index=1&list=PLCC85BFBF44D1FE06

>>9727391
Its all good you're quickly becoming my top tripfag. How does one become a thelemite btw?

>>9727397
Accepting Liber L vel Legis

File: BB70fmTCcAA0UuM.jpg (94KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 600x600px

>>9727397
Accept Liber L vel Legis as the Law.
That's literally it, though it'd be nice if you pushed farther.

https://youtu.be/lPUiuGqxws8

>>9727405
I should have a re-read of that. What are you other literary interests?

>>9727428
>literary interests
Jesus Christ.

I unironically like DFW.
Bataille
Merleau-Ponty
Levinas
Scott from Slatestar's online Kabbalistic novel.
Ancient manuscripts
Obscure tantra of all kinds
Genre fiction: Horror (Clive Barker)
Andrew Chumbley
Evolutionary biology of consciousness.
Phenomenology of Religion.
Archaeology (my undergrad) and ethnography.
Administrative theory (Dewey, Buckminster Fuller, journals)
The study of Aesthetics, masks, and myth.
Etc.

>>9727405
Can we hear your reader's digest critique of Berashith, please? You mentioned some things about it a while back and I have been waiting for the right place and time to ask this.

>>9727452
>Berashith
Fug.

What, exactly, do you wanna know?

It's philosophically sound on its surface but L throws it sideways. It posits no true infinitude of Godhead outside abstraction due to ignorance where L posits hard spiritual infinitudes.

Berashith is early, and sorta masterful. I've not considered reconciling the positions for some time, perhaps a project to get cracking on.

>>9727449
>unironically like DFW.
Meh
Bataille
>now you're talking
>Merleau-Ponty
Have you seen "Pontypool"?
>Levinas
Haven't heard of
>Scott from Slatestar's online Kabbalistic novel.
Don't know it. I took a course in Qabala once in Safed, Israel
>Ancient manuscripts
I wish I could
>Obscure tantra of all kinds
What is tantra? Is it somehow related to Mantra etymologically?
>Genre fiction: Horror (Clive Barker)
Didn't know he wrote books
>Andrew Chumbley
Name sounds phones
>Evolutionary biology of consciousness.
The beginning was the end
>Phenomenology of Religion.
Are their books about this?
>Archaeology (my undergrad) and ethnography.
Neat
>Administrative theory (Dewey, Buckminster Fuller, journals)
Explains DFW
>The study of Aesthetics, masks, and myth.
Masks scare me because I'm slightly autistic
>Etc.

>>9727466
>Have you seen "Pontypool"?
Yes.

>Haven't heard of
Totality and Infinity: Explorations in Exteriority.

>Scott's thing
http://unsongbook.com/

>What is tantra? Is it somehow related to Mantra etymologically?
Tantra means "spine" or "binding" which holds a book together where Sutra means "stitch" in a binding holding pages. Tantras are esoteric, non-Puranic "Hindu" teachings.

>Didn't know he wrote books
Dude Clive's the shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4XidFz3NIg

>Are their books about this?
All around the library, especially in A.'.A.'.>Philosophy, linked my archive here: >>9726895

File: IMG_1844.jpg (74KB, 500x438px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 500x438px

>>9727483
Ah yes yes. You are the good sort.
>mfw didn't connect "sutra" with "suture"

>>9727465
That's kinda what i was looking for. I think you mentioned at one point that it doesn't jibe with his later stuff, and while an excellent piece, he came to recognize its faults later on (or something to that effect?). Do you think part of this has to do with the whole "what is true for the Adept may be false for the Neophyte, etc." rule?

>>9726955
if magick was real one predicted outcome is that people who practice it would be at the top of any dominance hierarchy considering the massive unique advantages that they will have compared to anyone else. they aren't, so the magick hypothesis is necessarily false.

>>9726955
also, the definition you quotes doesn't explain or describe magick in so far as you and people like you actually use the term, so it fails as a definition, and it just an attempt to hide the retarded shit you really believe behind a sensible looking exterior

>>9727166
>I keep seeing this meme.

What's up Ape. We had a conversation over at /his/ some time ago about the works of Andrew Chumbley, Crowley, Mesmerism and some Arabic stuff.

I'm impressed how far I've seen this meme spread, considering how little and rarely I actually contribute to these boards. It would be nice though if people actually read up on this stuff to form their own opinion, rather than half-assedly parroting something they barely understand. Point in question – Crowley obviously had much more going for him than mere Mesmerism and it's retarded cousin Spiritualism, but we've already spoken a bit about this.

>>9727166
Schelling and Schopie were quite big on Mesmerism though, as was Goethe for that matter. It was a huge craze in Europe at the time and influenced much more than it is given due credit.

I'm surprised people haven't mentioned Gargantua & Pantagruel by Rabelais, which seems to have been quite an influence on Crowley. As a Thelemite, have you read it yet? I've been strongly considering it, but it seems too carnivalesque for my taste.

>>9727635
>any dominance hierarchy
Provide an argument for the existence of these.

>>9727710
people compete for shit
we call this dominance hierarchy
victory by analytic truth
qed

>>9727726
>people compete for shit
>we call this dominance hierarchy
You got a mouse in your pocket kid?

>>9727736
wut

>>9727647
>doesn't explain or describe magick in so far as you and people like you actually use the term
uhh...t-that *is* how I use the term(!?). T-that's why I quoted that particular definition, because myself and a fairly large contingent of folks DO define it that way.

>>9727761
I don't know why you're typing like this but the way you're stuttering is giving me a massive erection.

>>9727761
my man you were just giving me the crowley 101 magick definition i forgot what it's from

none of you larpers actually use that definition, first of all because every human alive or dead has tried to change his reality by exerting their will so it's a useless word, nobody outright says "today i'm going to try and do stuff" because it goes without saying, like using a marker to highlight the important sentences in a book, if you're going to highlight the whole thing might as well not do anything at all


1:a word that doesn't convey meaning never gets used
2:words only come into existence because people create them because they need to use them
therefore
3:the only words that exist are ones that convery meaning
4:the word "magick" exists
therefore
5:the word "magick" must convey meaning

>>9727788
(and secondly, i, from observing real usage of the word magick in specific instances, have managed to extract the general idea of the word by my mental powers of abstraction, so i know from lurking /x/ that this isn't what you cucks mean by the word)

File: 950c9bd45d78ed5939e2420679800911 (1).jpg (36KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 500x500px

>>9727788
>definition i forgot what it's from
Magick in Theory and Practice: Theorems and Postulates.

>none of you larpers actually use that definition
Actually, yes, that's the operating definition that's used, PARTICULARLY when someone pops up talking about fireballs and lighting bolts, pretending we're asserting powers straight from League, WoW, Skyrim, TTRPGS, or whatever vidya flavor of the month.

>first of all because every human alive or dead has tried to change his reality by exerting their will
Yup. Pic related.

>Nobody says "today i'm going to try and do stuff"
>he doesn't keep a schedule or actively strategize his actions

>5:the word "magick" must convey meaning
I mean, just because you don't like the particular definition doesn't mean it doesn't signify.

Would you prefer the anthropological definition?

>>9727806
give me the anthropological definition
also give me the etymological reason behind picking the word magic with a k of all things to describe this mundane thing, i remember coming to /x/ many years ago looking to learn about what magick is and only getting 100 different answers which only gave off the impression that everyone was making it up as they go along, to this day i hold resentment

regarding the (mis)interpretations of words like 'magick':

>He who became the Master Therion was once confronted by
this very difficulty. Being determined to instruct mankind,
He sought a simple statement of his object. His will was suf-
ficiently informed by common sense to decide him to teach
man ‘The Next Step’, the thing which was immediately above
him. He might have called this ‘God’, or ‘The Higher Self’,
or ‘The Augœides’, or ‘Adi-Buddha’, or 61 other things —
but He had discovered that these were all one, yet that each
one represented some theory of the Universe which would ultimately
be shattered by criticism — for He had already passed
through the realm of Reason, and knew that every statement
contained an absurdity. He therefore said: ‘Let me declare
this work under this title: “The obtaining of the Knowledge
and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel”’, because the
theory implied in these words is so patently absurd that only
simpletons would waste much time in analysing it. It would
be accepted as a convention, and no one would incur the grave
danger of building a philosophical system upon it.

oops!

>>9727819
>to this day i hold resentment
Sounds like a personal problem mate.
Maybe work on that overtly hostile tone if you're actually trying to lern a thing.

>give me the anthropological definition
magic - practices designed to gain control over the supernatural. Magic and religion are separated in several ways in anthropology. For some anthropologists magic tries to gain control over the supernatural. Others see magic as being individual, while religion is a group phenomena that creates lasting social bonds. Malinowski saw magic as a means to an end, while religion was the end in itself. Other anthropologists find separating magic and religion very difficult.

>etymological reason behind picking the word magic with a k
It's a middle German and early modern English spelling, used to denote shit like operations from grimoires as opposed to sleight-of-hand.

>>9727830
why is it that asking for the definition of magick will net you almost as many unique answers as there are unique ips, even in fields such as economics or psychology where there are many schisms between scholars there's at least a common body of work that's axiomatically accepted by everyone

when someone organizes their schedule or plans for the future they can say stuff like "i will do x" but the object of attention is always "x", people are concerned with practical problems, why is magic concerned with the "i will do" part? agency and free will are taken for granted, what kind of advances are there to be had in the area of will?

File: 1494113485705.jpg (450KB, 1438x969px) Image search: [Google]

450KB, 1438x969px

>>9726982
>Chaldeans
>Enochian
>Yazidis

Not that other guy, but boy howdy are you a surprisingly offensive LARPer. Yazidis are our contemporaries. Their beliefs have nothing to do with Crowley's fanfiction or his pathetic opposition to Christianity.

>>9726963
Post a pic, I want to see what a rube looks like.

File: T11213_10.jpg (90KB, 1536x1015px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 1536x1015px

>>9727909
>internet toughguy and shitposter
>frogs

>>9727909
>Yazidis are our contemporaries. Their beliefs have nothing to do with Crowley's fanfiction or his pathetic opposition to Christianity.
There are whole essays on the Yazidi influence on Crowley not to mention direct reference to Mel*k Ta*s in texts like AHA.

I'm not sure why this is surprising, the qwele have been published openly in English since 1852, and I'm not talking about that weak tea Black Book shit.

>>9727880
>agency and free will are taken for granted
Tell that to modern memers like Sam Harris, while is colleagues like Dennet who actually have some more experience with Neuro say free will is entirely compatible with what we know about neuropsychological determinism.

>what kind of advances are there to be had in the area of will?
Application thereof, though I'd humbly say half of Crowley can be replaced with Bataille and the other half replaced with Uttara Kaula Trika and you'd likely have a more actionable system.

Thankfully we've got Chumbley.

>>9727830
>magic - practices designed to gain control over the supernatural

First, prove the supernatural exists. You can't. There's very little room for fear and wonder in our scientific, fact obsessed world. Go back to the jungle tomorrow and it is all around you. Hell, go camping with some friends and tell campfire stories about skinwalkers.

Whichever definition you choose -- antrhopological, religious, vidya player's -- the meaning falls flat in the face of science. I'm not an atheist, and I take no comfort from saying God is dead, but the future is not looking too good for little boys who play with dolls and masks.

What are your thoughts on Jung's work? Idea of the shadow, esp. as it concerns the process of individuation. Don't you think Crowley was just an artist searching for meaning?

>>9727943
>There are whole essays on the Yazidi influence on Crowley not to mention direct reference to Mel*k Ta*s in texts like AHA.
In it he draws direct correlation with Pan as per Liber 7, and K&C of the HGA by attributing it to the vision of Atmadarsana, or the light-apparition of Atman, which is more or less spot on if we view Mel*k Ta*s as taking the same sort of role as Samael, a supreme angel, of death, and of fortune/fate both good and ill.

>MARSYAS
Ay, not to veil the truth to him
Who sought it, groping in the dim
Halls of illusion, said the sages
In all the realms, in all the ages,
“Keep silence. ” By a word should come
Your sight, and we who see are dumb!
We have sought a thousand times to teach
Our knowledge; we are mocked by speech.
So lewdly mocked, that all this word
Seems dead, a cloudy crystal blurred,
Though it cling closer to life's heart
Than the best rhapsodies of art!

>OLYMPAS
Yet speak!

>MARSYAS
Ah, could I tell thee of
These infinite things of Light and Love!
There is the Peacock; in his fan
Innumerable plumes of Pan!
Oh! every plume hath countless eyes;
–Crown of created mysteries!—
Each holds a Peacock like the First.

File: __zaizen_tokiko_idolmaster_and_idolmaster_cinderella_girls_drawn_by_shizuru_daikoukaizidai__sample-d71e78a87dabfa2d061d8707b8815451.jpg (163KB, 850x791px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 850x791px

>>9727952
>Don't you think Crowley was just an artist searching for meaning?

That is to say: his acting out against Christianity and adopting the theater of exotic cultures and magick was just a part of his own search for himself.

>>9727933
>>frogs
Eat me, brainlet.

File: 2dgrills.jpg (790KB, 2400x1680px) Image search: [Google]

790KB, 2400x1680px

>>9727958
>Samael, a supreme angel, of death, and of fortune/fate both good and ill.

Yes, yes. A Kali-like figure. Or an archon. I'm saying Crowley should have no say on modern interpretation of Yazidi lore. He is a charlatan and fanfiction writer, not a lens through which one should study the beliefs of others.

File: Jung.jpg (49KB, 500x371px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 500x371px

>>9727952
>prove the supernatural exists

"Explain this happening!"
>"It must have a `natural' cause."
>"It must have a `supernatural' cause."
^Let these two asses be set to grind corn.

Liber 333 Ch. 45.

Not sure why you're seizing on a speculative-descriptive ethnographic term as if it's not an exercise in phenomenology.

>the meaning falls flat in the face of science
>>9726963
"We place no reliance on Virgin or Pigeon
Our Method is Science, our Aim is Religion"

>What are your thoughts on Jung's work?
Pic related.

>Don't you think Crowley was just an artist searching for meaning?
I don't see how this would, at all, negate the work. Especially in light of Abhinavagupta's mastery of mystical aesthetics.

File: 1489774428035.png (1MB, 1280x1280px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1280x1280px

>>9727967
>Yes, yes. A Kali-like figure. Or an archon.
I mean, the onus is gonna have to be on you at this point to substantiate that Mel*k Ta*s wasn't conceived of much in the same way that early-middle Jewry considered Samael (or in the way Mandaeans considered Mahziel).

>>9727967
>He is a charlatan and fanfiction writer, not a lens through which one should study the beliefs of others.
>>9726895
>>9727134

This gonna get boring fast if I can just point out posts where I already addressed [thing].

>>9727971
>Pic related.
Nice deflection. I've read The Red Book and his Sermons to the Dead. He was obviously a mystic, but he made the effort to build a somewhat coherent understanding of the human mind in its development.

>I don't see how this would, at all, negate the work.
Crowley et al first and foremost worked to exploit the seekers and neophytes, for reasons they perhaps did not even understand.

>^Let these two asses be set to grind corn.
Poetic description of scientific method. We don't know what we don't know until we know it.

>>9727986
>He was obviously a mystic, but he made the effort to build a somewhat coherent understanding of the human mind in its development.
K.
I'm not at all challenging that.
I just think there's too much "all in your head" in most entry level discussions of Jung and if he came to his conclusions via earnest praxis, one may consider doing the same to see WHY he reached those conclusions.

>Crowley et al first and foremost worked to exploit the seekers and neophytes, for reasons they perhaps did not even understand.
???
Crowley got ripped off FAR more than he was ripping others off. People look at one side of the OTO support network and condemn the whole thing without seeing how much money Crowley pumped back into his students.

>Poetic description of scientific method.
So we're in perfect agreement, then! Whence thus the subtle passive aggression?

>>9727976
>"We place no reliance on Virgin or Pigeon
>Our Method is Science, our Aim is Religion"

I well understand Crowley's determination to dismantle religion, specifically Christianity. It has been rather a blight on humanity for quite a while, especially since the 17th c. But if science is the new magick, what's the point of studying bad poetry or the mysteries of The Book of Lies & the Law?

Understanding man's need for myth is an admirable goal I submit, but is it necessary to become filthy in it? To choose an antiquated creed and a language that alienates? Would it not be wiser for the master and student both to be divested from all arcane symbols but the generic?

>>9727996
Hello Ape, what do you think of Symonds' biography of Crowley? Does it give some insight into the man or is it at least worthy to kill some time?

File: 1490605788002.jpg (82KB, 783x590px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 783x590px

>>9727996
>So we're in perfect agreement, then! Whence thus the subtle passive aggression?

I got mad when you were namedropping actual Christian sects and associating them with Crowley's adolescent madness. He was the ultimate heretic, I guess.

>>9728002
>But if science is the new magick, what's the point of studying bad poetry or the mysteries of The Book of Lies & the Law?
From the Bibliography of the A.'.A.'.:
>The object of this course of reading is to familiarize the student with all that has been said by the Great Masters in every time and country. He should make a critical examination of them; not so much with the idea of discovering where truth lies, for he cannot do this except by virtue of his own spiritual experience, but rather to discover the essential harmony in those varied works. He should be on his guard against partisanship with a favourite author. He should familiarize himself thoroughly with the method of mental equilibrium, endeavouring to contradict any statement soever, although it may be apparently axiomatic.

>The general object of this course, besides that already stated, is to assure sound education in occult matters, so that when spiritual illumination comes it may find a well-built temple. Where the mind is strongly biased towards any special theory, the result of an illumination is often to inflame that portion of the mind which is thus overdeveloped, with the result that the aspirant, instead of becoming an Adept, becomes a bigot and fanatic.

Also, only so much of your ritual records should be consumed with Thelema. EXPERIMENT is hammered home for a reason. Try GMP. Try Lemegeton. Try Enochian. Try Grimoirium Verum. Find what clicks.

>to become filthy in it?
>"It's filthy to tell each other stories" ~t. /lit/

>To choose an antiquated creed
I still think Thelema's inside its sell by date, though only just barely.

>language that alienates
I'm sorry you're so wounded by diction. There are any number of mystical commentators of various ideological stripes who will tell you much of what Crowley might.

>Would it not be wiser for the master and student both to be divested from all arcane symbols but the generic?
Refer back to the Bibliography. Also, if this is an argument for Perennialism, that's not going to help with anthropologically informed reconstructions.

>>9726036

he really knew how to party

>>9728008
>Yazidi
>"Christian"
Now *I'M* mad.
They're as much Christian as they are Muslim as they are late Semitic/NeoAssyrian/West Iranian pagan. In many respects they're just as self contained a sect as the Mandaeans.

>>9728005
>Symonds
He's a jackass.
Kill some time with it, but no more. He's hostile to Crowley on a scale to which I usually only see from Christists. Which I guess is better than the Mottaite sort of wand fondling some authors do.

It's a really sad state of affairs when there's no good 110% solidly neutral Crowley biography.

You're best served pouring through his manuscripts, typescripts, diaries, ritual records, etc., in the unpublished Yorke Microfilms of the Warburg Collection, referenced and linked earlier ITT.

>>9728008
>adolescent madness
Also, pretty sure AHA was typed up when he was in his early/mid thirties but I'd have to double check.

File: 1476903469062.jpg (378KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

378KB, 1920x1080px

>>9728012
>I'm sorry you're so wounded by diction.
Not wounded, amused. The rhetorical dress up of Thelema is as silly to me as the latin pomp of Catholic priests before the Second Vatican Council. It serves a shamanic purpose, but is ultimately only skin deep.

>to familiarize the student with all that has been said by the Great Masters in every time and country.
>method of mental equilibrium, endeavouring to contradict any statement soever
>>Perennialism

wew. I think Crowley's work is very much the opposite and alike to the faith of his youth, and its no surprise. I'm not making an argument against Thelema that he would not have made. Religion is a fine tool for moral instruction if read with the eyes of a poet. Mortals have other plans. That Crowley created an institute of religion is beyond ironic.

>Now *I'M* mad.
>as much Christian as they are Muslim as they are late Semitic/NeoAssyrian/West Iranian pagan.
Easy pard. I am aware, and made no claim to their symbols unlike yer boy.

File: anvap.png (340KB, 453x688px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 453x688px

>>9728012
>There are any number of mystical commentators of various ideological stripes who will tell you much of what Crowley might.

Yes, and all with the same sincerity. I think we can agree the persecution of the Yazidis is what happens when self-interested agents of religion used doctrine as a weapon of state. In this I agree with Crowley (and you, I presume) 100%.

>>9728040
I meant it figuratively.

>>9728048
>very much the opposite and alike to the faith of his youth
I wouldn't actually deny this, as Gospel of St. Bernard Shaw demonstrates.

>That Crowley created an institute of religion is beyond ironic.
If you chose to approach Thelema from the lens of organized religious Orders, that's on you friend-o.

>It serves a shamanic purpose, but is ultimately only skin deep.
I'd direct you to any number, again, of Abhinava's treatises on the place of aesthetics in mysticism, and further materials on Shamanism like ... well fuck now I can't find the book; academic text on shapeshifting in art. Goddamnit.

>>9728071
THE JAGUAR WITHIN
Holly fucking fuck.

In my Meso folder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQzNZR-LXZc

File: monkey.jpg (8KB, 257x400px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 257x400px

>>9728113
>THE JAGUAR WITHIN

Neat! Will likely purchase this. V interested in Aztec philosophy & have stood atop Tenochtitlan. Maffie's book is p good but dry.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQzNZR-LXZc

You're alright for a monkey.

>>9728132
>interested in Aztec philosophy & have stood atop Tenochtitlan. Maffie's book is p good but dry.
DUDE, PLEASE to open my Meso folder, I've got most of the Linda Schele series on Meso studies.

And you're alright for an anon ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTNMzHRZHTw

>>9728101
>I wouldn't actually deny this, as Gospel of St. Bernard Shaw demonstrates.
>>9728071
ACTUALLY I'd say one of his biggest faults is failure to abandon the dispensationalism of his childhood Darbyist Plymouth Brethren faith.

Despite the advocacy and dickriding I do have serious gripes with Crowley, I just rarely hear his detractors assert any critique of weight and much of my prodding is getting folks to consider the *actual* scope and thereby problems with the system.

You can hate Crowley all day long, that's fine with my ass, but if your reason isn't better than "muh feels" I won't take you that seriously.

File: meatpuppetsii.png (2MB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1000x1000px

>>9728141
Yo this folder is increddddible.

File: lamb.jpg (99KB, 800x450px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 800x450px

>>9728154
For what it's worth, my critique of Crowley is as follows:
>never fully abandoned Darbyism
>failure to update the curriculum after ~1912
>lack of proper initiation into Tantra
>Yoga as an olympic sport (he emphasizes effort and strain)
>poor administrative/managerial skills
>failure to elaborate on his notions inside formal logic (he had the potential to solve problems we're still grappling with but this is only glaring when you start going through unpublished papers)
>reliance on Gerald Massey (can't bust his balls too hard, hindisght is 20/20).
>lack of follow up on linguistic research (I'm just as guilty of this, as many of us are, but the human only has so many hours a day to study).

>>9727635
Most people who gain dominance over a group or field without inheriting it do practice magick in one way or another, most of them don't know what they're doing, or call it something else like behavioral psychology or manipulation games, and if they're aware its really magick they don't advertise the fact.

File: grant.jpg (430KB, 732x1025px) Image search: [Google]

430KB, 732x1025px

>>9728154
I don't hate Crowley, and I don't have any emotional attachment to any doctrine but Jung and Campbell. You've already heard my critique: he uses the tools of his enemy to liberate them, but they only step from one sacred cage into another. I appreciate him as an artist, but I can't take him seriously as a pathfinder or mystic. Those are Hegel, Girard, Jung, etc. Anthropologists.

What do you think of Arthur Avalon?

File: talk to the hand.jpg (51KB, 720x960px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 720x960px

>>9728172
>Arthur Avalon
Better than most of his detractors say.
Woodruff was working around very specific problems of publication that Crowley was, meaning he had to redact essential materials from Kularnava Tantra. Rai has an unredacted edition and I have a digital copy of an uncensored edition of it but in Spanish in the eastern folder.

Since you're asking about Woodruff himself, you MAY wanna take a gander through my Saivism and Abhinava/Uttara Kaula Trika folders...

File: 1459106280774.jpg (26KB, 720x575px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 720x575px

>>9727635
And I'm sure there are no tinfoil hatters theorizing about chid rape satanic/molochian cults for the elites out there.

File: 1476942657409.jpg (34KB, 568x286px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 568x286px

>>9728183
Thanks for the pleasant conversation Ape. Sorry I called you a rube. You're alright, and learned evidently. Keep reaching for the stars my man.

>>9726708
Oh shit whaddup, I've seen you around /x/. Just wanted to say I appreciate your work, keep it up

>>9727310

Baboons aren't apes tho. Explain yourself

>>9727943
for real though how can reading about magick teach you to better apply your will and what does that even mean
what's the central thesis of magick systems

>>9727699
>understand. Point in question – Crowley obviously had much more going for him than mere Mesmerism and it's retarded cousin Spiritualism, but we've already spoken a bit about this.
What's the proper way to pronounce "Goethe"? I always heard it pronounced almost like "Girth-uh," but some folks I know who spell their name exactly the same and pronounce it "Gaith-ee." Any help will be much appreciated.

>>9728935
And Cynocephali are neither Baboons nor Apes, so it gets even *more* confusing!

>>9728952
Read some of the A.'.A.'. Class B documents and you will see. It doesn't just consist of doing ritual. There are a LOT of various exercises to be mastered as one progresses thru the grades, to learnt to discipline mind, body, speech, and 'spirit.' To develop mentally, physically, spiritually. To actually uncover what one's True Will even IS. All kinds of things.