The Greeks

>>9699647
That's not the way this works, bub. It's either do it the right way, or don't even bother.

>>9699647
Aristotle arguably had the greatest impact of the three on Western thought, so it would be a crime to skip him altogether. At least read either Metaphysics or Nicomachean Ethics as they dominated western philosophy until about the Renaissance and are still relevant now.

Then read them

well too late i bought the republic L O L

>>9700087
And yeah i forgot to mention aristotle. I was mostly trying to see if I should read much of the presocratics and the history of greece.

>>9700126
the pre-socratics were a major force in ancient Greek culture. Plato and Aristotle go to great lengths to respond to and synthesize their philosophies with their own. Not to mention they are frequently referred to in later philosophy. You have to take the time to start with the Greeks. There is no easy path

Another anon here.
I was planning (and I'm currently on this path) to read in this order:
>Mythology
>Iliad
>Odyssey
>Eneid
>Then merging to Plato's works and then to Aristotle's.

The amount of pseuds on this board scares me. Mostly because I know most of you faggots are from STEM fields.
>>9699647
Read whatever you like when you feel like it. The Iliad was shit and the Odyssey was great. And don't be that retard who thinks he has to read the 100 page introductions.

Which of Plato's works are most essential? I've read Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Gorgias, and currently reading Symposium. After that, I'm planning on reading Meno, Phaedo, and then Republic before I move onto Aristotle.

>>9700266
Don't forget Theaetetus and Sophist.

>>9700266
Read Phaedrus after Symposium

>>9700266
>>9700284
and Timaeus after Republic

>>9700146
I keep hearing this. And I'm sure it's the optimal way to do it but what I wonder is, what AM I missing if i go straight to Plato?
I don't get how I need to know greece's history, mythology, plays and poems in order to even understand their philosophy. I know a little bit about it but I don't see how it could essential.

>>9700120
>L O L
Fuck off faggot

>>9699647
http://alexsheremet.com/greek-and-latin-in-an-age-of-better-things/

>>9700325
The Homeric epics and other myths are referenced a lot in Plato's dialogues. The pre-Socratic philosophers don't matter at all, and there is a reason why it's called "pre-Socratic." Iliad->Odyssey->Plato is the correct path.

>>9699647
>Preferred translation is Alexander Pope
>Aristophanes before Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides
Absolutely disgusting.

I actually don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with reading Pope, I just don't think it should be someone's first translation.

I want to read 'The Greeks' but its such a substantial amount of material I feel it would be a total waste to delve into it too much while also reading and enjoying a lot of modern fiction and philosophy.

>>9700944
The Greeks could be read in 3 books. Homer's epics, a collection of Plato, and a collection of Aristotle. That's all you need. Then you can resume with the Romans, i.e. Virgil's poetry.

>>9701009
what do you mean resume with the romans?
i was intending to read Aneid after reading the Odyssey

die retard

>>9700231
Aeneid is Roman and has nothing to do with classical Greece. Read it for epic poetry as a tradition; don't read it to understand Plato.

>>9700944
The classical Greeks are actually relatively paltry in output compared to Roman era writing. Plato/Aristotle are obviously voluminous, but are "finishable," which the Romans are very nearly not.

>>9700254
>not reading the introductions
The introductory essay to the Iliad by Bernard Knox was great. In fact I find most introductory essays to be pretty interesting.

>>9699647
Read the Greeks. Enjoy Thucydides senpai

>>9701537
Yes, I know. I'll just read Eneid before Plato because I think it could fit better after reading Iliad and Odyssey. Also, I could not bear reading Eneid and Plato's works at the same time.

>>9700325
>what AM I missing if i go straight to Plato?
Plato uses mythos all over the place, he is under the influence of Pythagoreanism and Orphism in terms of mathematics and theology, reconciles Parmenides that claimed change to be impossible with Heraclitus claiming that the only permanent thing is impermanence. Parmenides introduced the idea that thought and being are the same and Heraclitus the Logos. They are ideas about as influential to Plato as Socrates' views on the psyche.

Plato began as a poet, is himself a brillian writer not unlike the poets, references the greatest poets just as much as a person living in the American South does with the Bible, and the Republic is largely concerned with replacing the poets' education with something like the Academy.

Plato is the moment philosophy and education shift from mythology, secluded mystery cults, sophists training people to win debates, and the Socratics' personal mission to despook people, to public institutions dedicated to cultivating élite students in the pursuit of excellence, truth and knowledge.

The better question is why would people NOT want to know what Plato talks about and criticizes. Would you attend a course on World War II that doesn't mention Adolf Hitler even a single time?

What's the best translation of the Aeneid?

>>9702020
>translation

Stay cucked, my faggot friend.

>>9702022
Not him but how do I into latin

>>9702020
I have the same question. I want to know if the John Dryden translation is any good, or if it's Alexander Pope tier.

plato and aristotle are the only relevant writers if you are trying to understand philosophical context.

>>9702116
Buy a textbook off amazon and do a couple hundred or so hours of focused self study.

>>9701858
>Plato is the moment philosophy and education shift from mythology, secluded mystery cults, sophists training people to win debates, and the Socratics' personal mission to despook people, to public institutions dedicated to cultivating élite students in the pursuit of excellence, truth and knowledge.
does plato says he is not a sophist himself and if so, what are his reasons?

>>9699647
If you aren't studying Ancient Greek philosophy then you don't need to read everything, despite what the illiterates on here say. Read what interests you and if you come across references to the muses or mythology in the future then read them.

There are a few pieces of Plato and Aristotle that would help, as well as a basic knowledge of Homer, some Greek plays, and some mythology. The presocratics aren't worth more than a skim over so you understand where Plato was coming from. Make the most of your time and read what you want. I'd guess that two thirds of /lit/ have never read any of the Greeks.

>>9702228
>Sophistry is a productive art, human, of the imitation kind, copy-making, of the appearance-making kind, uninformed and insincere in the form of contrary-speech-producing art.
Read the Sophist

>>9701617
>Reading a hundred different names you don't know jack shit about.

Tell me again why I should care. I'm a Stem faggot with a job that has zero to do with anything that goes on this board. I only read for the prose.

>>9702171
>any good, or if it's Alexander Pope tier
Wut. How is Pope not good?

>>9702228
Option one: Socrates was a sophist, Plato just tried to take what was good from him.

Option two: Plato was a sophist, taking what was actual wisdom from the non-Sophist Scorates

Option three: Neither Plato nor Socrates we're Sophists as they did not charge money.

Option four: Neither were Sophists as they were trying to find/teach wisdom rather than just how to win an argument.

>>9700254
>read whatever the fuck you want

The only correct advice in this thread.

>>9701633
Eneid is just a fan fiction though, you wouldn't read Paradise Lost to understand Christian philosophy tbqh

>>9702460
Th introduction essays are ALWAYS worth reading. That one in particular is insanely good, and helps you understand the prose/poetic metre as well as the history behind the Illiad. If you don't read the masterful scholarly introductions that you're paying for by buying that edition, you're a drooling retard.

>>9702565
>voluntarily spoiling the story before I even start the book
t.pseud

>>9702595
>reading for the plot
t. pseud

>>9702634
Nice comeback. Are you one of those people who watches a movie for the special effects?

>>9702634
I don't think you know what a pseud is mate.

>>9702595
You read the intro after the text, retard

Whats next on the timeline after Illiad Odyssey? I waas thinking Euripides and the Hercules Labors.

>>9703485
Hesiod.

And do read Aeschylus and Sophocles before Euripides.

guys, I have been thinking. I am really excited to read Plato, however, there is still sophocles, euripides, aristophanes, herodotus, thucydides, euclid, archimedes, apollonius and nichomachus to get throught before Plato. I have read Edith's mythology, iliad and odyssey, hesiod's theogony and works and days and complete works of aeschylus. Is it ok if I start reading Plato's dialogues inbetween these other books I am reading?

>>9703496
I don't know for the others, but Hesiod after Iliad and Odyssey? I think he'd fit better before, specially Theogony.

>>9704367
I guess it would help as an 'introduction' to all the gods and whatnot, but chronollogicaly, it comes after

>>9703496
Give me the best Euripides plays. Already read Sophocles and just finished Aeschylos a few days ago.

My contrarian power ranking so far
Aeschylos<Sophocles
Persians<<<<<Oresteia

>>9704483
Woops it's supposed to be
Persians>>>>>Oresteia

>>9704488
>>9704483
euripides has a lot of plays, but the considered best is medeia