More like this?

Destiny of the Republic

Jerusalem : A Biography

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Every page of this was riveting. I especially liked how she was able to paint a vivid picture of the wild personalities that had impacts in the event that was so pivotal in shaping the rest of the century and, by extension, the world we live in today

Can you give me a gist of the book?

>>9681128
Romans n sheit

"The Holy Roman Empire" by Peter H Wilson.

Also, "Europe", by Norman Davies is a good general history.

I read the first 50 pages of this book and hated it, I don't know why. Maybe I'll give it another shot if you guys liked it so much

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Rubicon or Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World for mongol history.

Athens from Alexander to Antony- Christian Habicht

>>9681128
It's roman history from it's dubious origins to 212 when everyone in the Roman Empire was granted citizenship. It's very well written

>>9679843
now that youve read that, youre ready for something more indepth
I recommend The Roman Revolution by Syme if you're interested in the transition from Republic to Empire

>>9681541
>The Roman Revolution by Syme
Reviews seem great for this.

Can you tell us a little more about it...quality of writing, research, etc?

>>9679843
For well-written history, try Simon Schama (eg the History of Britain series) or Jonathan Spence's books on Chinese history.

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>Written by a womeme

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made me cry.

also
>>9682420
Schama's Citizens is great. Napoleon The Great is good too. The Black Jacobins by James is unbelievable.

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>>9682536
That argument only works with fiction

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>>9681147
>Peter H Wilson
His "Europe's Tragedy: The 30 Years War" is excellent. CV Wedgwood's take is also great.

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>>9679973
I just got this

Michener, Irving Stone

Isaiah Berlin- Three Critics of the Enlightenment, The Roots of Romanticism, etc. Where history meets philosophy- clear, well-written, informative and remarkably entertaining. Great place to start if your interests include Herder, Vico, DeMaistre.

Any books similar to this about the history of WE

I read this book recently and thoroughly enjoyed it. Never read this sort of history book and I'm hungry for more. Considering ready more of her work.

I've been recommended 'The Ghosts of Cannae' to learn more about the stuff surrounding the battle. Apparently 'Rubicon: The Triumph and Tragedy of the Roman Republic' is good for learning about the fall of the Republic.

I've recently been interested in reading about Alexander the Great and have heard the book by Philip Freeman is good. Anyone know if that's any good or has other recommendations?

>>9681343
Tom Holland is usually excellent. I actually preferred Dynasty to Rubicon. Dynasty tells the story from the end of Caesar's life, through Augustus to Nero, perhaps the most interesting period of Roman History.

>>9681562
i'm not the one who recommended it but can advise a little:
it was written in the 30s under the shadow of rising fascist states, which you should always keep in mind since he tries very hard to relate Augustan-era Rome to Europe in the '30s.
having said that, it is undoubtedly one of the best books of Roman history from the 20th century and an absolute must-read for anybody interested in the early Roman empire.
it's a lot more dense than most modern 'popular history' books and is clearly more focused towards academics.
personally, i wouldn't recommend reading it from cover to cover, but would recommend picking the chapters that appeal to you.

>>9679843
I brought this book up on /his/ once and everyone told me it was shit. Based on this thread /lit/ generally likes it. Wonder what that says about both boards

>>9683939
/his/ are pretentious when it comes to popular history, what they fail to realise is that popular history is simply history that is written well enough to be appealing to a large audience, it isn't necessarily 'less accurate' or 'more basic' despite what they try to suggest

>>9683939
/his/ has some real problems with unironic /pol/ infestation. I've heard SPQR cited by scholars in several courses, and she is a scholar with impeccable academic qualifications. Furthermore the arguments against the work- "muh popular history, muh woman, muh social history" "muh appeal to authority" discounts the fact that there are literally teams in Egyptian middens right now looking for scraps of papyrus to enlarge our knowledge of the common man and women.

>>9683948
not to mention that in my occasional jaunt over to /his/ i dont see many scholarly monographs cited. Its usually "WE WUZ KANGZ" and "Hannibal vs Alexander" and "who's yo favorite dictator" with citations from wikipedia.

>>9683988
>muh pol boogeyman

>>9684002
excellent response. Mary Beard is a professor of classics at cambridge, and I have seen, several times on this board, the "red pill" response that women cannot be historians, and that the study of social history is "sjw". I am not averse to dismissing popular female authors as producers of pap for the undiscriminating female popular readership, but the dismissal of ideas and academics based on inverse identity politics is poison to informed discussion, and usually made by individuals who refuse to argue their position from anymore more than a drive-by greentext, like yourself, faggot.

>>9684012
Stop assuming every shitposter, that have always been in 4chan, are your more or more imaginary pol boogeyman.

My favorite 'history' book is probably Michael Herr's Dispatches. It's about his time as a journalist in the Vietnam War. It's done in a wonderful New Journalism style but it's not some HST memey shit. Incredible book

Another I would recommend is Anthony Loyd's My War Gone By, I Miss it So. Again, the author's experience in War, this time during the Bosnian genocide. Also sort of in new journalism, even though the style had somewhat declined by the 90s. Also has something of a side plot detailing his heroin addiction. Interesting stuff

Anyone has a recommendation on chinese history?

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>>9684540
The Podcast "Chinese History Podcast" always cites works on any given subject.

That said, John Keay is very competent and has a book about chinese history as a primer

>>9684559

Thanks anon.

I bought World Order is it good

>>9682976
The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt by Toby Wilkinson is probably the best history of the kangdoms written in a "casual" tone intended for the general reader.

I personally prefer the Oxford History of Ancient Egypt, but it has a much less conversational tone, and fairly dry, academic writing, which I'd imagine is not what you're looking for.

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>>9682976
>>9684588
An excellent review of Egyptian history and historiography/egyptology

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>>9679900
I like how he came out right in front and (paraphrase) said "look, im a jew. my granddad is one of the reasons israel exists. I gotta be unbiased here, or else critics will ruin my career"

Pic related was great too, he was channeling Suetonius or Quintus Curtius Rufus without being demonstrably non-factual.

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>popular history thread

What do you guys think of Antony Beevor?

>>9685026
Which lives are the most fascinating?

>>9686051
The single worst history of the Nazi era. Shirer wasn't even an historian, and apart from that book being a turgid read, it is rife with gossip and factual inaccuracies. You'd be better off reading John Toland's Hitler biography.

>>9686056
For me, Timoleon and Pyrrhus, Marius and Eumenes, and Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus

What do people think of Mao: The Unknown Story?

I'm enjoying it, but I can't help feel that it's more of a hit piece than a history. I know it's not very well sourced and quite a lot of hearsay was taken as gospel. As well as that it's very keen to interperet every move of Maos as a cynical power grab, which honestly as the book goes on I'm becoming more convinced of. He certainly was no true believer.

>>9687182
wild swans was shit :(

>>9683948
>/his/ are pretentious when it comes to popular history
Really? Kind of makes me want to check it out tbph. Most internet 'history discussion' is no more than 'who would win, Romans or Han Dynasty?' with zero reference to any actual books about either.

>>9683988
>Its usually "WE WUZ KANGZ" and "Hannibal vs Alexander" and "who's yo favorite dictator" with citations from wikipedia
This is more how I picture /his/. Is it a bit of both, or is one anon totally wrong?

Guess I'll have to find out.

>>9687363
They are kin to /lit/ in that the pretense revolves around books they haven't actually read. It is the worst of both worlds.

>>9687182
It was absolutely panned by real historians of China. Given that there are plenty of legit biographies, I'd say stay well away.

>>9687368
>Nuh-uh. In his works on the Peloponnesian war, Kagan says that Syracuse ultimately showed the failures of Athenian leadership. [4]

>>9687374

This is my thinking. Far too biased to be a good history. I'm going to finish it as it's fun and reads easily, but I'll not take it as a factual account

>>9684540
That a hell of a broad topic- anything in particular?

Without specifics, in terms of writing style, I'd say Jonathan Spence's Qing Dynasty stuff and Joseph Levenson's Confucian China and Its Modern Fate (dated but brilliant).

Also some good books that spring immediately to mind- Nylan's The Five 'Confucian' Classics and Schwartz's The World of Thought in Ancient China for an intro to early history, and Paul Cohen's History in Three Keys because it brilliantly address both the Boxer Rebellion and what it means to study and talk about history.

>>9682682
>His "Europe's Tragedy: The 30 Years War" is excellent. CV Wedgwood's take is also great.
Indeed. I relied heavily on both for a freshman essay I did on the subject of the Thirty Years War. I remember the time I spent on that essay seriously eating into the time I should have spent on my main Economics modules that year.

>>9687393
I was looking for a broader view so I could then study specific dynasties and periods of time.

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>>9687426
Reminder to prospective students of the subject that it deranges your mind to the point where you subconsciously start capitalising the word "economics"...

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>>9687431

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>>9687442
Thanks anon.

>>9687431
IIRC Gernet's History of Chinese Civilization is a good one-volumer. It's not something that can be summarised without missing out a whoooooole lot, of course.

>>9679973
Dan Carlin quotes Tuchman a lot in Hardcore History

>>9685854
Staningrad is a masterpiece, very well respect

>>9685854
I find Beevor's a bit lightweight, if I'm honest.

>>9686051
>not reading stuff by either Richard Evans or Ian Kershaw

>>9687368
Ouch. That don't sound good.

>>9687376
Kek

Any recommendation on the Ottoman Empire history?

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>>9688007
I'm happy I recognized this

>>9689362
If you want to learn about a given subject in history, best approach is to google up some reading lists from courses at good universities. Although that doesn't guarantee a fun read, of course.

>>9690568
this is both true and not, the reading lists at my uni (Oxford) are exhaustive to the point of being ridiculous, i would recommend picking maybe the 3 most general books from a good uni reading list and from there just finding articles on Jstor or something (if you have access) in areas that interest you

>>9689362
Halil Inalcik: Ottoman Empire, The Classical Age
Hanioglu: Brief History of the Late Ottoman Empire

All you need desu. Both short.

Add
Colin Imber: Ottoman Empire
Some chick whose name I forget: Osman's Dream
if you want

Any recommendations on the Soviet Union? Particularly the pre Cold War period

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>>9679843

>>9690571
Oh yeah, I don't mean read the whole reading list. That would be nutso.

History book recommendations are tricky here. Serious historians would always want the best scholarship, and usually the most recent stuff, but other people here seem more interested in a good read and aren't bothered by things being wrong or out of date.

>>9690568
>>9690600
Thanks anons

>>9690686
300 pages covering a thousand years. What could go wrong?

>>9683948
The problem with popular histories is that they are also often narrative histories, and since history does not have a narrative this inevitably means there has to be ahistorical editorializing and artistic licensing.

>>9691822

I ask myself what the point is in trying to become an omnipotent, rational historiographer. At that point you've completely divorced yourself from the humanity of history, the fact that no man ever had access to all the relevant facts at the same time they were making those decisions and following courses of action that would define the future of their societies

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>>9691803

Amazon says it's 672 pages

>>9691822
what do you mean? You just tell the story of what happened in the past, you get a story, a narrative. That word, "narrative" is used like it's some boogeyman, it just means telling something like a story. I don't get what's wrong with that.

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Excellent writing

>>9691822
history DOES have a narrative, it's just that this is only a small part of studying history
for my history papers we always started with what our tutors called 'the narrative' and then moved onto thematic study, it's a valid way of studying history
as you say, though, the narrative is not enough to understand history

>>9684016

Calling someone out 'as /pol/' doesn't mean they are actually 'from /pol/', but rather that they belong 'in /pol/' because, as we all know, /pol/ was created as a containment board for unadulterated faggotry.

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>>9690655
also >>9684616
also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYo8SEvnsrM

>>9691822
>implying those don't also happen in even the most rigorous academic histories

>>9691924
The actual problem is that doing that is completely impossible. But it seems a bit weird to suggest that historians shouldn't -try- to understand all relevant evidence.

>>9691822
>since history does not have a narrative this inevitably means there has to be ahistorical editorializing

The very basis of history, in Thucydides and Herodotus and later Livy, as well as stuff like The Tale of the Heike, the Eddas, the biographies and even historical listings in the Records of the Grand Historian and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, The Bible in Chronicles, Kings.... these are narratives. Stating that history as narrative is inherently ahistorical is a questionable position

>>9692275
I think anon means that the past has no narrative (of course history, being the stories people tell about the past, has narrative).

Even that's a questionable claim- people can see their lives in narrative terms, and possibly more so when they look at political events. I'd say the past is full of narratives. But it is true that the past is far messier, more complex and unknowable than any history can suggest, and the more general and 'popular' the history the more likely it is to mislead about that.

Academic historians aren't necessarily reflexive and honest about their work, of course, but the structure of citations and discussion of sources at least hints at how much construction is going on to produce a history.

>>9687574
Not a huge fan of Dan Carlin's podcast. Feels like he's just reading wikipedia articles with his rarely interesting musings layered over top. Not very insightful

>>9692865
This is quite true, but does not negate the excellence of Tuchman. Reading A Distant Mirror right now, its great

>>9692886
Absolutely. Distant Mirror is next to read on my list

Has anyone read The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon? I was thinking of picking up the abridged edition...still 900 pages

Any good recommendations on Portuguese and Spanish Empires history?

Holy shit /lit/ is significantly more intelligent than most boards, yet I stopped coming here

>>9693346
why? we missed you

>>9681147
I believe the Holy Roman Empire is what we today call France, so that would not be what anon is referring too the ancient Roman Empire, but I would like to read a general history on Europe. Norman Davies I will remember that.

>>9693171
It's the kind of book you don't stop reading.

>>9693479
Germany. The Holy Roman Empire is today's Germany.

>>9679843
Anything by Andrew Roberts

>>9693505
Sorry you are right, I got confused because of King Charlemagne being born in in Francia but then dying in modern day Germany.

What are the best WWII books? I've read The Third Reich at War, but I want something more focused on the war itself.

Best book on Napoleon?

>>9679843

Why do people think this...?

Let me guess. Is this the ONLY book on Rome you've read?

This was probably the 20th book on Rome I read and I despised it. It's really rambling, seems fascinated by pretty insignificant events in Rome, and breezes over a lot of major goddamn events.

>>9683917
Tom Holland is fucking dogshit, his "research" is dubious and frequently completely unfounded, and he writes sensationalist drivel full of rhetorical flourishes and devoid of actual historical method. His books are everything wrong with pop history.

OP: I recommend The Thirty Years War by C.V. Wedgewood. It is a sublimely written work that is halfway between pop and academic history.

>>9684540
For a big-picture look at the development of a tradition entirely separate from ours: Sources of Chinese Tradition, Vols. I & II.

>>9684574
It is a superb apologia of Kissinger's career and philosophy of statesmanship, but if you have read Diplomacy a lot of it is a rehash of that book.

>>9696490
see>>9691970

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>>9693171
>abridged

Mistake, get the everyman, at least vol 1-3

>>9693247
pic related and History of the Conquest of Mexico by William H. Prescott

>>9696419
Churchill's Memoirs

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>>9691970
>>9696530
>not getting the brit version

>>9696508
It really is fine. Ive read all the latin histories as well as gibbon (obviously she cant compare to him), but it is far more enjoyable than the oxford or cambridge histories.

>>9696508
>Let me guess. Is this the ONLY book on Rome you've read?

>OP:
>This was my first history book I've read front to back

desu I doubt you read anything at all

>>9696732
Thanks

>>9685854

god tier, stalingrad is one of the best non fiction books written

>>9693479

>people think this

holy fuck

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>>9688007
Sorry Antony

Anyone ever read The Theodore Roosevelt series by Edmund Morris? That's the book that made me into a reader tbqh

>>9691822
>he doesn't understand history *is* just narrative

plep

any good book on anglo-saxons?

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>>9697806
First and second volumes of Churchill's History of the English Speaking Peoples

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The Complete Story of Civilization by Will Durant and his wife Ariel Durant

>>9693171
Do not get an abridged version. I picked one up and couldn't even keep myself awake while trying to read it, while the unabridged version is actually something of a page turner.

>>9683939
They were probably /pol/tards who didn't actually read the book and just saw that there was a female author, so they immediately assumed it was shit.

>>9679843
Defintely.She also has a great documentary series that can all be found on YouTube called, Meet the Romans.
>>9682536
You would actually be surprised if you gave her a chance. She's pretty objective about most everything.

>>9681334
Not even trying to bait or be a cunt here, but you sure it wasn't because she is a women? Serious question.

>>9698326
Writing a history series with your wife sounds unbelievably fulfilling. I can't imagine what it's like to have your spouse also be a major player in a field you're both passionate about. Reminds me of the music of Jordi Savall and Monserrat Figueras, married and both advancing their genre of historical music.

>>9679843
King Leopold's Ghost by Adam Hochschild is excellent.

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I haven't read this, but from the very release of this book, I'm wondering. What more can possibly be fucking said about Rome than already was? Why don't you just pick up Gibbons and be done with it? Better yet, read some primary sources like Suetonius. What about this book makes it worthy to read at all? Is it just normie friendly?

>>9701610
When Gibbon wrote Decline they probably asked what more can possibly be fucking said about Rome too. Why not just pick up Livy? Good writing is good writing. There is always something to say.

>>9701624
That still doesn't answer my question. What about Mary Beard's work is exceptional?

>>9701610
>gibbon

*tips fedora*

>>9701636
in addition to the same primary sources everyone has had for the last 1500 years she also access to new archaeological analysis of antique scat found under an outhouse

>>9701636
That's not what you were asking, but Idk; I haven't read it desu.

>>9701610
>what more can be said for a 1/2 millennium cradle of civilization guise I mean jeeze :P

>>9701669
How would reading SPQR improve my understanding of Rome anymore than previous works? What does it bring to the table that is new?

>>9701759
it's written in our contemporary zeitgeist, gibbon is obviously looking at it from an enlightenment perspective, no doubt some fag did a marxist one, someone else did a politically correct one looking for "human agency" and now she has some new one, every just looks at it through the lense of their epoch which results in different readings

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>>9701787
There is at least one Marxist take. Pic related.

>>9701759
Watch some of Mary Beards videos on YouTube and see if you like her perspective on understanding Rome.

There's also a podcast where she talks about Seneca somewhere floating around.

>>9701610
I see a lot of people mention Gibbons in these threads, but never Mommsen. Are his books inferior?