What's the answer to Post-Modernism?

sorry about the broken shit at the top, copypasta from a dying thread.

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>>9679578
>What's the answer to Post-Modernism?

>clinging to spooks like a good beta

>>9679588
i find it hard to believe you live in a lifestyle that avoids 'spooks', i guess stirner's best lesson is how to be a hypocritical douchebag.

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>>9679588
>beta
>implying this style of social hierarchy isn't a spook

"Postmodernism" isn't a consistent idea, and the leftist theorists generally thought to describe it do so in fundamentally contradictory ways.

And if you know your art, you can maybe see how they're so often presenting a skewed, inaccurate picture. Jameson's account of the idea, for instance, is a very ideologically-warped imposition of a political reading that's completely arbitrary in its laughable interpretation of art (and where does a Marxist get off complaining suddenly about lack of feeling or individual expression, or even presuming to place such a thing?).

A lot of things described as "postmodern" aesthetically are things still developing historically that are really turning out to defy what so many poststructuralist and Marxist critics tried to make them out to be. Like real innovations at one point theorized as 'deterritorializing', or perhaps arriving at a wordless presence, are then later treated by yet other Marxists as merely being of some meaning-drained system-of-exchange or whatever. Which is, if you're not smart enough to think around these guys, obviously just a case of shifty ideologues continually attempting to move the goalposts in order to reassert their ever-failing Marxist narrative.

At this point, as I've seen for a while now, we're at a time of real possibility and strangeness, but if you're a Marxist cunt following after the likes of Derrida and Jameson, whereby everything is seen as a closed system of textual rearrangement (no room for emergence or weirdness there) or measured in relation of Capitalism, or rather the ability to supposedly maneuver or operate away from it, then the picture becomes quite dire and you're rendered completely blind to history at this point. You have to ditch those terms.

I'll say it again. You have to completely drop all Marxist and poststructuralist theory if you want to start to get a sense of our times. Otherwise, you limit your vision to terms that by their structure will always collapse the present into the terms and politics of the past. For my part, I don't have that problem.

>>9679718
Sincerity becomes the honesty of people who can't be honest with themselves.

>>9679784
sincerity is literally honesty, you twat.

>>9679578
religion and spirituality.

>>9679578
>violence, overreaction, flawed reasoning
Wow its always these pomos who attack everything passively-agressive

>>9679961
both pomo and hypersincerity are victims to these problems. that's what i was trying to put out there.

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What's a good word for the undoing of what postmodernism hath wrought? Whatever sticks and best describes that is what comes next, not this silly hypersincerity bullshit.

>>9680013
it's already here.

>>9680023
Says who? If it's already here it'll be one of those minor inter-period blips people later realize was forced and produced forgettable examples of work ... and Fight Club, more memorable as a movie and a book and by now already quite dated. Think bigger.

Why is seemingly everyone in my generation so obsessed with sincerity and authenticity? It borders on the pathological.

>>9680040
*than a book.

I simply regard what presently counts as 'contemporary' to be the moment in the history of thought that comes after post-modernism.

>>9680043
Do you like being deceived?

>>9679870
Sincerity is honesty with yourself
Honesty is sincerity with others.
If you're not honest with yourself it compromises your sincerity with others. You can be perfectly honest with another person, but express an inwardly dishonest feeling. If you're not sorted out, the shit you say will be marked by it.
And he was quoting Gaddis, btw.

>hypersincerity
what did he mean by this

is this paranoia

i am confused

This is starting to sound like hyperemotional numaletry to me. Seems to be promoting a weak and feminine ideal; not that sincerity is bad, but listen to this guy: >>9680061 ... (nothing to do with you personally, it just on the face of it sounds cringe).

I'm curious about where some of you guys are getting these ideas. Because as much as some want to believe movements like postmodernism are/were organic, they're really not, and certain parties have an interest in promoting certain ideas.

>>9680101
>le manly man don't not have feelz feelz meme

>>9679775
>I'll say it again. You have to completely drop all Marxist and poststructuralist theory if you want to start to get a sense of our times. Otherwise, you limit your vision to terms that by their structure will always collapse the present into the terms and politics of the past. For my part, I don't have that problem.
But how are you supposed to come to know things without fitting them into things you know based off prior experiences?

>>9680023
I agree, my diary is the seminal work of this century.

The answer to postmodernism is acceleration. We do not deconstruct or attempt any discovery. We construct artifice upon artifice, endlessly and needlessly.

>>9680117
The coming artistic movement in the west will involve strength, acknowledgement of the importance of identity, and a return to noble European idealism. We're past this new age emotional bullshit. It had its day, but self-indulgent, feminized modes of thinking become old fast and ultimately lead nowhere.

>>9680101
Lying is warping reality for the sake of avoiding responsibility. How is that feminine? How is being a woman bad? How is honesty in any way bad? Fuck me you're dumb.

>>9680199
You're just a shallow thinker and probably a low-t beta male. Being a woman of course isn't bad, but indulging in feminine over-emotionality is the opposite of what's now needed. And it's not what will determine the future. Stop being a femboy.

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>>9679578
active pessimism. The telos of life is recognizing how pointless and painful it is, just as the telos of an oil slick is to be mopped up.

>>9680061
and in this instance gaddis was being a twat.
>>9680072
hypersincerity is sincerity out of spite, not for honesty's sake, but to project truth even when harmful for the sake of defying deconstructivism and post-modernism, which is inherently full of lies, sarcasm, and irony.
>>9680101
that guy was a faggot. don't worry about the faggots. hypersincerity is the pursuit of truth in a knowingly truthless world.
look at it this way, if post-modernism shows us that all the truths we hold were merely lies we told ourselves, and projects that concept itself as though it were a governing truth of humanity, that chaos reigns, it's inherently hypocritical. it's downright lying. defy the liars, the deconstruction of art and meaning and love and worship, defy it not for emotion's sake, but for the sake of humanity, its history, and its future.
>>9680164
i can't wait for you to publish it.
>>9680215
talk about lying to one's self and projecting shit. Liars are cowards who slink away from reality in fear from consequence and responsibility. You are taking measure for your own suit of ignominy.

>>9680258
i like it, good shit

>>9680241
well if you want to be a moody molly be my guest. can't mop up a mess without people like you crying over it first.

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>>9680241
This weak-minded, nihilistic attitude is merely a reflection of western civilization's present state of decline and signify the end of the demoralizing postmodern era. That's why the ensuing movement will be a postmodern reversal and involve a return to strength and classical idealism. Dig yourselves out of your holes and get on board.

>>9680258
>You are taking measure for your own suit of ignominy.
Stop writing like a tool and learn how to make better arguments.

>>9680276
i don't argue with cowards like you. i chastise them.

>>9680284
Well, you failed at both.

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is hyper sincerity theatre of cruelty redux

>>9679578
Hypersincerity would align with eschatology. I'd say it is the only way to bring forth the ultimatum of man.

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>>9680269
What could be more strong-minded than accepting the terms of a meaningless and actually very bad existence? People love to hold onto their comforting illusions of purpose and redemption and transcendence because they are weak-minded. And at its worst this manifests in the purest nihilism of all such as what you'll find in the french existentialists and which is covered up much better in the clarion call of Nietzsche and his perfidious language. Namely that we'll simply deliberately sit here and delude ourselves that we shall create some kind of purpose for ourselves and then proceed as though we are not actually just begging the question.

Meanwhile there is no conflation to be had between pessimism and nihilism because pessimism does recognize value, just not the of the kind people like. Its not nihilistic to say the cost of living in terms of both physical disutility and somewhat even more significantly, confusion and existential turmoil, is too high. Its not nihilistic to turn away from all our instincts no matter how it might grieve us. Its practically religious .

>>9680292
Some people like to lie to themselves when confronted with truth. They are called cowards. No wonder you're so intent on establishing sincerity and honesty as an over emotional and feminine beta male trait. it would conveniently ensure you never have to worry about being honest with anyone or yourself.

>>9680318
>What could be more strong-minded than accepting the terms of a meaningless and actually very bad existence?
Sincerely: The guardsman in Pompeii, the life of Christ.
Ironically: To see the uselessness of strength.

>>9680318
you say active pessimism though. why bother with the pessimistic viewpoint? i understand that it might save you from being disappointed if things don't work, but to intentionally subscribe to the idea that your endeavors though righteous will all be for nothing doesn't make much sense to me. i don't think you're at odds with Hypersincerity though. it just seems one of the avenues of alignment for someone in the era itself.

>>9680318
>because they are weak-minded
This would be a positivist illusion. You want to see yourself as superior, despite claiming that no such thing exists.
You are breaking the rules you set, as all nihilism does.

>>9680318
>What could be more strong-minded than accepting the terms of a meaningless and actually very bad existence?
Not accepting the terms of a meaningless and bad existence, and forging a strong mindset and future outlook that promotes positive ideals.

so is no one going to ask why the OP has a copy of Tristram Shandy with pulled teeth on it?

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>>9680354
>>9679578
why the OP has a copy of Tristram Shandy with pulled teeth on it?

>>9680354
i took it when i got my teeth pulled out and it was the book i was reading at the time. it's a neat picture i think. take what symbolism you will. maybe that tristram shandy was the beginning of postmodernism as a style in literature, (in the broad sense) and one must confront reality to begin the new era, a sometimes painful act, akin to pulling teeth? i dunno man.

>>9680328
Your psychological inversion tactics are ineffective, and you yourself are lying, so what does that tell you? I never said sincerity and honesty are weak traits in themselves; I said that an artistic movement based around such things is weak and will lead nowhere.

Look at these insincere proponents of New Sincerity lol. Off to a bad start, I'd say.

>>9680367
*wisdom teeth
for added symbolism?
i guess symbols can be trouble though, tools of deception.

>>9680374
yes yes, obviously you're gunning for a back and forth. i don't argue with cowards, man.

>>9680269
>>9680284
>>9680313
Not that anon but you are trying way too hard. Masculinity has nothing to do with this self-affirming bravado you're trying to use to paint a masculine veneer. A man uses his words to communicate his thoughts and doesn't feel above asking questions and acknowledging criticism without swinging his dick around.
You sound like the bratty child of a single mom, too used to getting his way.

That being said, explain why you associate sincerity with emotions, why you associate emotions with demoralization but not idealism, and why you think idealist values apply on an individual level with the same congruence as values established by the individuals in question. Also define "strength" as you're using the term.

>>9680013
Love

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>>9680346
>responding to the dude who posted a picture of Cioran by telling him he's contradicted himself
O I am laffin

>>9680391
Because you have no argument and what you're trying to make a case for is DOA. Enjoy the rest of your day.

>>9680340
>why bother with the pessimistic viewpoint? i understand that it might save you from being disappointed if things don't work, but to intentionally subscribe to the idea that your endeavors though righteous will all be for nothing doesn't make much sense to me

For one thing its true and anything that I recognize as true I'm irresistibly compelled to believe in. Generally you don't just choose beliefs on the basis of their convenience.

>>9680346

You know what? That might be a good argument to use against a nihilist.

>>9680393
pretty sure these are three different people. i'm the one calling that guy accusing people of being feminine low t beta males a coward. i can't speak for the other two. i don't associate emotion with sincerity as a necessity. it can be involved or not. Hypersincerity isn't just an art form in my opinion. i assume you're the pessimist, and i made certain to say that you are not in conflict with Hypersincerity, but rather a part of it. a type pf person who lives in such an era. i'm a bit of a pessimist myself, but i do it so i won't be disappointed by assuming the worst, and so i can be pleasantly surprised when i'm wrong. Hypersincerity is more against the postmodern deconstruction of art and morality.

>>9680409
>post a picture of a guy
>I must agree with all his ideas

No in fact, I think his rejection of moral value is crap.

>>9680393
>313
Eschatology, as in Revelations, Tribulations. When else could man be pushed for the mark? If you wouldn't be sincere in taking it. Or the rule of the antichrist, when else should you be sincere to the fullest? When else would the jews dare show their nature, but with their messiah?

>>9680393
You should try to stop living by Hollywood cliches and feeling discomfort at the slightest hint of masculine identity. That will get you nowhere, and the greatest men have always combined masculine and intellectual ideals; they are not mutually exclusive. And I did not raised by a single mom, I was raised by two loving parents. Stop playing games.

There is no new sincerity. That's not what's next in line. The west is facing crises in every sense, and we will not overcome those through "new sincerity," -- because it's not answer to current problems. Now, I understand the desire to romanticize these things, but that will ultimately accomplish nothing and exacerbate the existent rot caused by postmodernism.

It's not a terrible step to take, I suppose, but as I said in my first post, the people who are promoting it here are thinking too narrowly. There's something much bigger happening right now.

>>9680411
whatever you want to make yourself feel better, coward.
>>9680416
i guess a pessimistic viewpoint is just a matter of the subject. i don't know that all we do is meaningless. that's exactly what i'm trying to fight against.

>>9680427
>Hypersincerity is more against the postmodern deconstruction of art and morality.
The narrow thinking I'm talking about in point.

>>9680464
on what foundation do you suggest morality, art, philosophy, etc be built upon besides sincerity? if not honesty, what?

>>9680470
then you're aiming for something beyond morality of humanity? his art which reflects his being and the world around him? those things are narrow? how in the fuck are these narrow aspects of humanity?

>>9680465
You will continue to not be taken seriously if you run around calling people names, making non-arguments, and not using proper capitalization.

>>9680475
On identity and cultural heritage, those will comprise the foundation of the future movement we're discussing; sincerity and honesty are merely smaller components of that -- they are not foundations.

>>9680487
>says the person who calls people shallow low t beta males
what a prick you are.

>>9680480
Small picture narrow; not narrow as in meaningless. You're looking at a couple of ingredients with a magnifying glass, I'm telling you to back up and look at the dish they're a part of.

>>9680502
Hit that shift button before the "w" ... it's not that hard. Do you want others to take your opinions seriously and not think you're a 14 year old girl? Then stop typing like one.

>>9680496
Identity and cultural heritage will rot away just like the corpses of all your long dead forefathers. Weaklings like you, clinging to some kind of perverted idea of stability, will be swept away by the same all-encompassing decay that feeds on everybody. The only difference will be that we will be laughing, fucking and taking in every single moment of the great downfalls to come, while you will be choking on stale prayers directed at corroded bones.

See you on the other side.

>>9680427
Nope that's not me. This is a clusterfuck of a thread but I think I was aiming at this >>9680464 wonderful individual. You and I are more or less on the same page, if not at least the same book.
>>9680460
I have no idea what you're on about
>>9680464
>You should try to stop living by Hollywood cliches and feeling discomfort at the slightest hint of masculine identity. That will get you nowhere, and the greatest men have always combined masculine and intellectual ideals; they are not mutually exclusive. And I did not raised by a single mom, I was raised by two loving parents. Stop playing games.
You should stop telling me who I am on an anonymous image board based on two or three comments. In fact you should just stop telling everyone who they are because you're so far off base I don't care enough to reel you back in and I couldn't imagine they would either. Just talk.
>There is no new sincerity. That's not what's next in line. The west is facing crises in every sense, and we will not overcome those through "new sincerity," -- because it's not answer to current problems. Now, I understand the desire to romanticize these things, but that will ultimately accomplish nothing and exacerbate the existent rot caused by postmodernism.
I didn't even mention new sincerity. I am not an advocate of new sincerity and I probably know more about it than you do considering I'm an actual /lit/ oldfag and you're just some immigrant who heard about pomo within the week.
>It's not a terrible step to take, I suppose, but as I said in my first post, the people who are promoting it here are thinking too narrowly. There's something much bigger happening right now.
You're on a literature board, not a politics board. "Everything" that "happens" does so on an individual level. You are talking with individuals about honesty, sincerity, ideals, and the like from the perspective of your Self, your life. Kind of strange that I have to point that out.
If you have a stronger artistic foundation than sincerity I'd surely like to hear about it

>>9680496
sincerity is a foundation itself. identity and cultural heritage rely on sincerity. they are well under the category of art and morality/philosphy. the reason all of these things are undermined by postmodernism and deconstruction is they're fucking lies. the lies that you hear on the news each day, the lies husband and wife tell each other, the lies are the foundation, and the result is a fucking cornucopia, a fractal of lies that come as the end result. the seeping lies that have infected modern society are the reason for the chaos today. sincerity opposes those lies. it's that simple. it seems a small thing to repel a huge problem, but all things have a fundament. all aspects of man have a simple seed.

>>9680530
The morose individual behind this post is representative of what postmodernism gave us. It embodies nihilism and our cultural sickness, conveyed through what is surely a disturbed individual who can see no brightness at the end of the tunnel and desires to pull others into his hole.

This is not, however, who the fight will be against, since this person and those like him will die childless and alone, and our collective genes will be better off.

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>>9680496
>founding absolutely anything at all on human identity
Jesus Christ read a fucking book

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Magic?

>When, under the authority of the sciences, one speaks of the uncanny and weird effects of particles acting at a distance in quantum mechanics; or the anomalous existence of temporary particles that come into and out of existence; or the entanglement of particles across vast worlds one never mentions the word magical. Instead we mask it with both mathematical equations and technological measurements and speak of the power of science as true, while the old magical universe of sympathy is shriven of its ancient power. If magic is at heart the discovery and manipulation of sympathy: action at a distance – then isn’t science after all a theory of magic that disguises it’s magical praxis?

>We need more, we need to push past the safety nets of thought that bind us and keep us within the secure circle of civilization as we’ve known it. Yet, we need to swim back at the same time and understand the counter-praxis of all those intellectuals of the past who formed counter-hegemonic theories of reality against the mainstream cultures of their era. We are no alone in this endeavor, many have died and sparked the hatred and animosity of mainstream reality makers across the past two-thousand years. When ancient Rome aligned State Power and Religion under Constantine a fierce reality system would be shaped that would shape the forces of Western Civilization for thousands of years. Only in the past two-hundred years has that old regimes of religious and state power been challenged by another extreme: Secularism. And, yet, in our own moment the secular atheistic worldview seems teetering on the edge of apocalypse. Why? In some ways because it did not go far enough

>Where will it take us? The old mythologies of secularism of which Democracy and Communism and Fascism were the outgrowth are dead and dying, but nothing is in the offing, no plan, no initiative, no map or program. Both the Left and Right are bankrupt and they know it. Isn’t this what the Singularity truly means? This movement into the impossible and unknown, uncharted waters of non-thought? Are we not moving into a realm that has no map, no navigational system to guide us. All the ideologies spawned since the Enlightenment are of no use, the maps of anarchist or communist, democracy or autocracy will not help us now.

>We are alone, unbound by the old legacies of Western philosophical anchors or religious-magico systems. For man this is a good thing, for it means we must invent out of our own ignorance a new way forward. Experience the new as a force of chaos and creation. We must for the first time in history invent the possibility of possibility. If magic was a form of binding, then maybe what we need now is a meta-magical system of unbinding. One that can unbind our minds from the illusions and delusions of both ancient and modern systems of enslavement, and allow us to create and invent something new beyond the human enclaves of this prison world we live in.

>>9680519
>quibbling over capitalization
get the fuck over yourself, son. if your hangups are so fragile as to worry over a lowercase letter, then you're obviously the type of person unable to carry on an honest conversation.
>>9680531
i am glad we have some shared ground, which is much more useful than arguing over capitalization and how masculine or feminine things are.
could you expand on the concept of active pessimism? at least in relation to postmodernism?

>>9680531
By rhe emotional fit you display here, I'd say new sincerity is perfect for you.

>>9679578
No.
The answer is no.

>>9679578
Point to me where DFW said anything about "new sincerity"

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>>9679588
toto git out

>>9680549
You have no idea what postmodernism is. It is somewhat hilarious how you try to blame something for the erosion of meaning and purpose when those things are unstable in and of themselves. You are a scared child.

By the way, I am a teacher. I form your children. I don't need to reproduce to continue my bloodline, your spawn will carry my ideas into the rancid future.

>>9680533
I agree with nearly all of what you're saying, but think your emphasis on sincerity is slightly misguided. It's a very important aspect and I can understand why one would think it is antithetical to the current age, since in many ways it is. But sincerity is a distinctly Europe virtue that will always be present within true art, so building a ideological model around it alone is what I take issue with. I don't see it as a foundation, but a European virtue that should and will be an important component in any ideological framework.

>>9680566
This triggers the physicist.

>>9680581
maybe not the exact term, but

The next real literary “rebels” in this country might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels, born oglers who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles. Who treat of plain old untrendy human troubles and emotions in U.S. life with reverence and conviction. Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue. These anti-rebels would be outdated, of course, before they even started. Dead on the page. Too sincere. Clearly repressed. Backward, quaint, naive, anachronistic. Maybe that’ll be the point. Maybe that’s why they’ll be the next real rebels. Real rebels, as far as I can see, risk disapproval. The old postmodern insurgents risked the gasp and squeal: shock, disgust, outrage, censorship, accusations of socialism, anarchism, nihilism. Today’s risks are different. The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the “Oh how banal”. To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness. Of willingness to be suckered by a world of lurkers and starers who fear gaze and ridicule above imprisonment without law. Who knows.

>>9680569
I'm not having an emotional fit I'm eating sunflower seeds and playing videogames on a Sunday afternoon.
Now I'm gonna have to ask you to define new-sincerity, concisely, and without attacking me or anyone else, and without pointing to the effects of it. You know, like a real definition. Shouldn't be difficult for anyone with a rudimentary understanding of it.
>>9680567
I wasn't the pessimism guy, that was someone else

>>9680554
Identity will be the foundation moving forward, because it is what's under attack.

>>9680592
Another very sick person, and another embodiment of the soul-rot caused by the ideology that brought us deconstruction. These people are fucked up and hopeless because they've been deconstructed.

>>9680594
well, i can settle with that, i don't think there's much more than sincerity to it, and i don't know why sincerity or honesty is a primarily western term or concept, but i can tell we're not aiming for opposing goals. whatever the new manifestation of truth and righteousness might be called, Hypersincerity or otherwise, the effort will be the prime aspect of it. the acknowledgement of postmodernism as a dangerous and cynical mode of art and philosophy engendered by the bitter who ruled the world of ideas.

>>9680602
>playing videogames
Strength of mind and character will never be achieved if one cannot cease acting like a child.

>>9680615
Hahaha, like a discount Peterson. I wish I could meet people like you in real life.

>>9680602
hey i like sunflower seeds too.

>>9680619
Right. And what that movement will represent is the mending of what postmodernism tried to deconstruct, as European man realizes that he does not have to be a wayward individualist in search for truth he will never find in a dark and meaningless world, but that he is part of a group that is responsible for the greatest artistic and scientific achievements of all time, and must now band together with his brothers to defend his land against the third world hordes storming and plundering his nation. And through this struggle, he will realize his greatness again. That is what will be represented through the future movement just now budding. Sincerity will play a part, but the scope is much bigger.

>>9680662
This has to be the cringiest LARP I have ever seen here.

>>9680671
Mulatto?

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>>9680624
This is what I'm talking about. This is what everyone is talking about.
I'm a college graduate with two STEM degrees and more hobbies than I can juggle, a healthy social life, and before you ask, yes my room is clean. I just got home from church and I'm too tired to do anything but not tired enough to sleep so I've decided to play videogames for the first time in weeks.
And yet this cheap nobody hits me with
>Strength of mind and character will never be achieved if one cannot cease acting like a child.
You have no understanding of people. Stop imitating someone obviously far beyond your depth.

>>9680680
no, i am a mulatto though, OP here.

>>9680680
No. I am white as fuck.

>>9680712
Assuming you're white, I'm very happy for your success, and I mean that -- no pun intended -- sincerely. I apologize for letting my personal disgust for video games and (let's be honest -- usually correct) assumptions about those who play them color what I said. Enjoy your down time.

>>9680721
Act like it.

>>9680739
If "acting white" means being a manchild that LARPS as a crusader on a congalese rifle shooting platform then I would rather not, thank you. You go be white, I'll go be an actual human rather than a caricature.

it's a shame that a bit of mud in my flesh ruins any chance for me to exist in the bright new future envisioned.

such is the benefit of Hypersincerity, it is not all inclusive to damn racist fool laws. it acknowledges my inherent inferiority and moves along, instead of lying, pretending that brown people will dissolve into nothingness. i am willing to accept my flawed existence, why not you? it's only the responsible thing.

>>9680750
Okay, enjoy yourself. Hopefully one day you'll realize that some things are more important than others, and that "humanity" doesn't have your back.

>>9680762
Thanks, buddy. You enjoy your games as well.

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>>9680739
>>9680739
Well I'm half black/half asian so before you retract your statement I'd like to say that I genuinely believe that you have it within yourself to think with a genuine empathetic intelligence and with an open heart and mind. I don't believe that you've been memed to oblivion but you're well on your way.
Maybe think about reading some Dostoyevsky, do some traveling, hit puberty. I believe in you.

>>9680755
You probably understand better than others the identity crisis one suffers from as a result of miscegenation. So I hope you understand why others don't want that to happen to their own lineage. It's nothing personal.

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This is some brilliant literary discussion you /pol/ guys got going here. I'm glad you've decided to visit.

>>9680770
half black half white here. no wonder that fool stressed cultural heritage and identity. he's never struggled with his identity in his life.
anyway, which were you? where's that pessimist guy. still wondering on his opinion of how to combat postmodernism or at least follow it with active pessimism.

>>9680770
Empathy diminishes with distance. I know your loss of ethnic identity necessitates a belief in an abstract concept like "humanity," but you are the aberration of humanity.

>>9680783
OP here and jesus christ you're right. just trying to discuss how to further art at large, and here i'm embroiled with someone who considers sincerity feminine and uses terms like cultural heritage and identity to hide his racism.
anyone know of any other examples of Hypersincerity other than Fight Club? Possibly John Green's work would apply.

>>9680815
Fight Club is as artificial as it gets imo. Hypersincerity to me is the music of Daniel Johnston

>>9680815
"Racism" is a natural evolutionary response. Believing it is some negative entity that can be eradicated is a foolish delusion. It will never go away, so please don't perpetuate the notion that it will by giving credence to the fake word "racism."

>>9680061
>Sincerity is honesty with yourself
>Honesty is sincerity with others
nice
>If you're not honest with yourself (sincere) it compromises your sincerity with others.
Woah
>You can be perfectly honest with another person, but express an inwardly dishonest feeling.
Uh

>>9680841
i never said anything about it being eradicated. anyway you're a coward. it's not a matter of accepting the differences, but rather what one does with this information. to treat one as a sibhuman rather than simply inferior in various ways is the abuse of a concept by a coward. being fully cognizant of the subtle nature of cowardice and its infection into your core is something that is far more demeaning to one's identity and sense of virtue and justice than any miscegenation.

>>9680791
Yeah it's pretty apparent when a person has experienced no existential dissonance or conflict in identity. Must be nice to be born and have someone hand you a prepackaged identity.
I'm not that guy, I don't know what happened to him but most posters ditch threads after they go full /pol/
>>9680805
>your loss of ethnic identity necessitates a belief in an abstract concept like "humanity"
>you are the aberration of humanity
really got the noggin joggin

>>9680831
interesting. i'll have to look into it. hopefully it's a sincere suggestion. heh.

>>9680857
Very odd and discombobulated post. Perhaps the nature of this debate is not for you.

>>9680859
I've never posted on pol. But I said I understand the loss of identity one experiences by being of mixed race, didn't I? I am all for people like yourself forging a new identity -- I want that for you. And I didn't refer to anyone as a subhuman (or sibhuman if that's something different). What I want you to understand is why others do not want that and are justified in wanting to distance themselves from it.

>>9680892
i suppose it went over your head. that's fine.

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Ok fags, we need to get real.

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most successful thread i've ever started. all cuzza you, /lit/

>>9679784
i think that there is a truth here.

with all this complaint about the pseudery or posturing nature of pomo's obsession with symbols at their easily manipulated or abstract versions (abstractified in a sense to account for craziness of modern life, utopian marxist whatevers. the equations get messier as the parameters increase), you can take a lot of the linguistic fuckery that you see in people like wittgenstein or even logical postivist language studies as a lot of thumb playing during a grammar lesson. It doesn't necessarily 'amount' to anything, or at least it doesn't seem to immediately, and when it does it rarely comes with the inherent beauty of something that seems to proceed in the stream of conciousness's obsession with "reading in real time"

This is part of the reason i think we shy away from DFW on parts for the endnotes/annoying plotting required to really dig into the linguistic jokes with the quebecois mom ect. and the reason why books like "house of leaves" seem hacky from the first time you see their gimick laid out for you.
>>9679784
this touches on the other side of the polemicism: you can also, in a sense, 'obscure with sincerity'. if we are to concern ourselves with 'truth,' (platonically derived or not) is it necessary a priori that this 'truth' has anything to do with us. "sincerity" as a response to irony is tricky because it isn't truly a reformulation of basic principles

>>9682318
one cannot "obscure with sincerity". it is literally antithetical to the term. sincerity's response to irony is to analyze a situation without attempting to put an ironic tone to it when it is not necessarily there. it is fine when something is ironic as a matter of course, but to create art tinged with irony left and right, eventually it will become inseperable as a theme to an art movement.
the quote in question is something that esme says to otto. esme is a heroin junkie prostitute that otto is obsessing over while she cucks him more or less. i have been in the shoes of otto, and she telling him that bullshit about sincerity is nothing to listen to as though it were some universal truth.
honesty with one's self and others is an automatic gesture. obviously one must be honest to others to be honest with yourself and vice versa. to "obscure" with truth i must say makes no sense, i would say you have perhaps a twisted view of honesty. say i'm telling someone the truth of an event, say a murder. but since i'm involved, i only tell them a part of the truth. that would be an example of dishonesty. even though i told the truth, there was an act of withholding the full extent of it. a lie. just the same with art, or philosophy, not exerting all yourself on finding an answer or sculpting a figure, if you withhold something, you are lying. esme offered a worthless comment to a man who lied to himself more than anyone, she missed the mark so beautifully it was incredible. besides, the words are as synonymous as it can get, it would be akin to saying, "honesty becomes the honesty of people who can't be honest with themselves", sounds deep, completely full of shit, exactly what Gaddis would write a heroin junkie to say.

>>9680549
>>9680615
>SAD!

>>9679578
Ironically deconstruction is the answer to postmodernism. Also Wallace is a hack, proposing solutions to invented problems.

>>9680815
Some DeLillo, for sure (see, for example, the funeral scene in Mao II). John Green might come off as sincere, but he has no costly acknowledgement of pomo/deconstructionism. He is VERY well-branded and -marketed to the demographics who will buy his books and watch his movies, and he uses his brand to get more money and audience puss.

So, perhaps sincere in a facile way, buy by no means "new sincere" or "hypersincere".

>>9679775
You're right, "postmodernism" isn't a consistent idea, yet you're satisfied with your claim that it's all the French at fault.

>>9680101
If you can't emerge from the 'crisis' of postmodernism unscathed you don't deserve to emerge at all; you lack the intellectual integrity to escape the tiger at night.

>>9679578
fight club is about a gay dude who struggles with the role a heteronormative society forces him into. it's about feeling stuck in a generation "raised by women" and a fear of softness and masculinity alike. dude have you even read it?

>>9680496
Are you the kind of person to complain about minority art being about their status as minorities? It is sincere -- at least as far as the people here are willing to understand the term.

>>9680013

/pol/. No seriously, they've taken modernism, with all its metallic screeching and cold empiricism and mixed it with the power struggles and non-objectivism of post-modernism and the liberation of nihilism and spewed their hatred for the world forth, violently and uncensored.

>>9684004
what's not sincere about that?

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guy was telling me about dugenist psychic tiger demons

>>9679578

>Roman Catholics from Sacred Heart claiming God is dead

wew laddie

>>9684484

I think its rather that there's less discipline among Roman Catholics, but the older ones (boomer generation) still uphold moral tenets with reverence. Its hard to imagine them trampling the teachings of Christ because it suited them. I imagine if any did they would live with a deep-seated regret.

>>9684480
Must know more. Elaborate.

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>>9680530
I find it hard to believe anyone over the age of 18 could write this.

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>>9684625
*teleports behind you*

>>9684501
Although interestingly, if you happen to meet a young, practicing Catholic, there's good odds they're going to be pretty traditional and conservative. Strong influence from John Paul the Great and Benedict.

>>9684507
Dugin nazbol horndog honeypot scandal