The bible

>>9647442
It is known
in my language Sodom and Gomorrah ist basically synonymous with chaos and when you refer to something as 'like an old testament god' it is synonymous with rage and destruction
Desert god didnt fuck around yo

>>9647492

Do you speak portuguese?

The god of the old testament was never supposed to be a moral guide to imitate or understand. It was an irrational force you didn't fuck with. You tried to appease it and maybe if you were careful enough you would avoid its wrath and increase your flocks.

And sometimes even then god would fuck with you.

>>9647509
No but i can imagine that its quite similar in countries that used to be traditionally catholic

>>9647492
Dutch?

how can christians reconcile the old testament god with an omnibenevolent god?

>>9647602
Benevolence hurts if you are evil

>>9647602
I guess the birth and sacrifice of Jesus Christ are considered as acts of allegiance between humanity and the old vengeful god

>>9647603
but he also punishes people who aren't evil according to our morals, and for christians our morals come from god

>>9647602
Demiurge

>>9647509
Portuguese we only say sodomia, nothing with Gomorrah homeboi.

>>9647576
Ja hoor ik spreek wel nederlands maar mijn moedertaal is duits

>>9647602
Do they need to? they don't deny that the God communicates differently to other cultures, and the Israelites were a warlike tribe.

To me the gist of it is God didn't really understand people until he became one. What gets confusing is when they push the idea that it was his plan all along like he is this being who knew how he would develop before he did develop. What I don't understand is where God went after the ascension.

>>9647615
>but he also punishes people who aren't evil according to our morals
such as?

>>9647492
>in my language
>in my country

Holy shit fuck off. I hate you fucking Europoors so much. Just say the name of your damn country you idiots.

>>9647791
this

>>9647791
They don't, like when discussing academia and education they're deeply embarrassed about how poorly they're doing compared to the Anglosphere.

>>9647442
God is the dictator of morality. Without him there is no standard to judge him against; remember that human morality is just utilitarianism. So trying to argue against God using morality does not work, because if you were to disprove him using his morality, then his morality would have no value in the first place, meaning it cannot disprove him. It's circular reasoning.

>>9648101
But how do we know what his morality is? The bible is just the interpretations of many holy men, its text as flawed as humanity itself.

>>9648147
If God exists he would communicate with us, and Christians believe he has done so through the scriptures. Many denominations will admit that there are other ways to still reach God, otherwise it would be unfair for a native American who didn't know what a Jesus was. But in general they believe that the scripture is the true word of God, and archaeological evidence says that it has remained consistent since New Testament times, so whatever was written hasn't been corrupted. The Bible has to have some worth if it's lasted so long, and become so influential. Although there is a good discussion to be had about its original validity, and whether it was corrupted from the start or or not. We cannot prove these things for certain, so the best thing to do is discuss it calmly, and allow everyone their own opinion on the matter.

>>9648173
You say that, but it was never intended as one, coherent, work. It was pieced together long after a lot of the individual parts were written. Leaving aside the question of their original validity, I would ask why certain books and stories were included and others were not? Were the original compilers divinely inspired, in a similar manner to the writers? Did God guide the binders hand?

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>The biblical god is so sadistic, evil, unreasonable and hypocritical, literally worse than any person in history

Evil itself, yes.

>>9648192
Christians believe that scripture was divinely inspired, and they select their books based on what they believe is divinely inspired. To this day people are arguing over what scriptures are valid or not. The main point of contention is over the Apocrypha which Catholics support, and Lutherans reject. The original compilation of 'official' scripture took place at the Council of Nicaea, and that is what modern Christianity is mostly based on. Though I must repeat that there are many people with their own unique opinions on the matter.

>>9648101

Nice meme bro. The morality of religion and society have not been one and the same for centuries now. How can one be the foundation of the other, which is different and probably opposite to?

Old Testament God is a god of war that basically beat out all the other gods of the time. The Greek gods just did shit because they represented a thing. Dyonisus was god of wine, you wouldn't pray to not get drunk, he wouldn't save you if you blacked out, for that is part of who he was. That was part of being the god of wine. If you look at Old Testament god as a god of war, you couldn't stop what he does.

>>9648227
>How can one be the foundation of the other, which is different and probably opposite to?
What do you mean by this?

>>9648416

>which is different and probably opposite to (itself)

I blame all these greek translations I've been reading.

>>9647691
Kankersukkel

>>9648433
I get what you mean. My writing gets screwy when I read translations or old texts too.
But back to the actual topic, would you care to go to explain why you believe God and morality are antithetical?

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>part with the Israelites

you mean exodus? read more of the fucking thing before you ask, or better yet don't read the compliation of ghost writing. the bible was a shitpost , then a repost , now fucking b8.

>biblical meme tho

>>9647737
>God ever developing.
>God not understanding something.

You don't understand, God is supposed to be a complete entity, there's no limits to it, therefore there's no room for it to ever modify itself since it is already everything.

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>>9647442
Numbers 31:17-18 is like the perfect extraction of biblical barbarity.

>>9647757
Job. It even explicitly says he is righteous

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>>9648101
Zeus is the dictator of morality. Without him there is no standard to judge him against; remember that human morality is just utilitarianism. So trying to argue against Zeus using morality does not work, because if you were to disprove him using his morality, then his morality would have no value in the first place, meaning it cannot disprove him. It's circular reasoning.

>>9648838
Just before we start I'll point out that the name Zeus comes from the same proto-indo european word that Deus comes from. Deus is a Latin term which means God. Just thought that'd be funny to point out.

But seriously. People don't argue against Zeus on moral grounds. Also if you try to argue against one God, using another God as a counter-measure; it is valid, as it does not eliminate morality all-together.

>>9647810
I did an exchange semester in London, those were the easiest exams I have ever seen. I'm from Italy BTW.

>>9647442

>reading the Bible like it's a novel

Go back to the website we all know you came from.

>god is like hitler times ten

God has killed literally every single person who ever lived and will kill you, too. So yeah, if we're doing a numbers game, God is a good deal "worse" than Hitler.

>>9648855
>Doesn't have a university in the top 50
>Went to the only European country with decent universities
>Went to the International party college
Like fucking clockwork.

>>9648873
>implying my home university isn't
>eth zurich

The whole point of Job is that God is a massive dick and it's something we have to deal with.

If you read the thing with any charity at all you would see that.

A deeper sort of theology than "God loves me and wants me to be happy :3"

>>9647602
Largely because the bible isn't the world of god like the Koran is. It's divinely inspired; which means its open to all kinds of interpretation and you can largely take it as you want to fit modern notions of right and wrong.

>>9648750
>primitive sandkikes knowing anything about the nature of God

Doesn't look like it. Back to the drawing board I guess.

You don't understand it. Everything apart from open miracles, happens through the representations of God, who are human.

Like Pantheism, except there is an unkowable deity in charge of it all.

>>9648869
I navigated to here from Google if that's what you mean

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>>9647442
Its basically Cosmic Horror. Even in this book only one guy was tormented for eternity.

>>9647442
He mellows out after losing his virginity

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>>9649205
pffffffffffffffffft

Are christians so retarded they think the bible is one book, when the very name means "the books"? It's a recopillation of folktales by the different tribes living in the greek diaspora. That's why it has some abhorrent turds like Leviticus, and also good books like Proverbs

>>9649220
>abhorrent turds like Leviticus

sodomite detected

>>9649220
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Psalm:137:9

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>>9649205

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>>9649205

>>9649205
>after losing his virginity
With whom?

>>9649205
Is God comfirmed /ourguy/?

>>9649220
>Are christians so retarded they think the bible is one book, when the very name means "the books"?
Only people that say this are not-christians or uneducated on religion.

>>9648826
>he didn't get the book of job
>not reading the dozen commentaries on it

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It's pretty interesting that most intelligent people who read the bible are now atheists

>>9649612
Unaccountable autistic cucks.

>>9649612
>intelligent people
>reading the bible literally
>intelligent

>>9649612
Nah, I'm a gnostic. You can't write off the preponderance of evidence that Jesus was at least extremely influential in his day despite having no distinction in public society.

I was an agnostic, I guess I wouldnt say atheist because I fucking hated Dawkins et all so much. read the bible last year, mostly for lit reason, came out a confirmed atheist, or at least anti-Christian/Judaism.

The main question I remember having while reading was: why aren't more people jews? God makes it very clear theyre his people and everyone else is cattle. Then the new testament doesnt really take on the 'chosen people' and 'scum' distinction. I wonder if another, less jewy religion would have been a better fit for western civilisation.

>>9649763
What about when Jesus says he's come for the children of israel and described gentiles as "the dogs". If anything that theme continues until Paul starts with his fiat bullshit.

>>9649612
mlady

>>9649839
Nice Paul was bad guy meme you obviously just Googled lel Bible controversies and conspiracies due to your fedora cutting of your brain circulation.
Mathew 28:18Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things

>>9647442
Sorry you can't handle it pussy, the valley of the mind is a horrific place

>>9650159
Nope, I read practically the whole fucking thing. It was pretty obvious to me Paul was the only one explicitly including gentiles. By the time I reached the NT I was well on the alert for Jewish tricks.

also godreally a main character in the OT, he talks a lot to abram and moses - in the NT its just Jesus claiming he's had a chit chat with him and has his authority

the old testament god sounds like a huge dick to modern audiences, but you have to put yourself in the perspective of someone who lived back then. We have so many modern luxuries and conveniences today that people back then couldn't even dream of.

Back then, people had nothing- no electricity, air conditioning, internet, knowledge. People were freaking miserable. Brutal wars happened all the time that could wipe out your entire civilization. People alive today under the age of 40 haven't even lived through a truly major war.

So yeah old testament God was a huge dick but back then EVERYONE was a huge dick. Some other civilization's king sends in his army to destroy your village and rapes all your women and puts everyone into slavery. That guy is a huge dick.

Back then everyone worshiped some kind of god or gods. When you do right, your god holds you in his favor and keeps you safe while the other civilizations go through horrific events.

In today's world we live such comfortable lives that we don't have to worry so much about being kept safe from the kind of atrocities that people in the ancient world faced. Yet we still are the descendants of these people who lived thousands of years ago and written about in this book.

>>9648899
Except for the parts which are directly specified to be the word of god, you mean.

>>9648838
>human morality is just utilitarianism
is this bait?

>>9650307
You can at least compared the biblical god to other leaders at the time, Yahweh is a fucking cunt compared to Darius.

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>>9647442
>im at the part with the israelites

>>9648855
I dated a girl from Italy once. She was one of the biggest and most manipulative sluts I've ever met. Also she didn't brush her teeth. I'm from freedomland BTW

>>9648477

I would say that our society has different values. Christians today drop tenets that would be unthinkable to drop back in antiquity. Everyone blasphemes constantly, for example. Whenever I'm around Christians all I hear is "My God... Oh my God." I don't even believe in religion but I don't even do that. And yet if I go into court, the baillif asks me to put my hand on the bible and swear to God. Only the Quakers have it right, refusing to swear oaths under any circumstances.

Perhaps a more salient example has to do with societal views on marriage and homosexuality. When society has a gulf in what is seen as morally good, then religions can either wither away or wall themselves up in a bubble like evangelicals and Wahhabi muslims. We've already seen it happen.

>>9648869

Shit logic, Cunt.

>>9650413
Zeus is a utilitarian?

>>9647442
Few christians read the bible. Those who do just ignore these parts and realise that the WHOLE Bible isn't the word of god. Of course some still say it is, but that's just straight lying.

To put it in my friend's words: OT G-d was such a cholo.

>>9649289
Mary

>>9648826
that's allegory

>>9647691
burgerjongen hier, mijn nederlands is heel slecht...ik streef ernaar goed te worden. (sorry, ik heb praktijk nodig, ik weet niet waarom ik dit typ)

>>9647791
that's irrelevant, just like you americo

Was god autistic?

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>>9649289

>>9649612
Then they're not virtuous

>>9647442
Uhh, yeah?
But that's not the point though.
You just don't mess with God. Just don't.

God delivers, you just need to be a little bit sensitive and notice it like the bible says