Spanish language thread

>>9645648
As a native spanish speaker I find english much more flexible, but I still preffer spanish

>>9645656
>I find english much more flexible
What makes it more flexible?

>>9645648
>How long do you think it would take an Anglophone to be able to read Don Quijote in Spanish?
I've studied Spanish for 2 years and can read contemporary works fluently. I still can barely understand a thing in Don Quijote. To use an analogy: Don Qujiote is to modern Spanish what Shakespeare is to modern English. It can be difficult to read even for native speakers.

You are better off reading a translation if that is your only goal for learning Spanish. Or, look at the other good authors of Latin America and see if they interest you enough to bother learning it.

As for your other question: I find Spanish more pleasing to read, but it is very frustrating to write in. You are basically a slave to the dictionary, and, after being raised on English, it is annoying to not have as much freedom. English is called the language of ideas for a reason. I have no idea wtf >>9645656
is talking about

>>9645669
>>9645656
Misread and thought you said Spanish was more flexible. My bad, my friend

I speak Spanish [native], Portuguese and French, and I really prefer using them over English. English feels childlike and mediocre.

>>9645648
Not native in either but I don't know why anyone would find Spanish more flexible. Maybe whoever said that was rather thinking about how easy Spanish grammar is, and had an easier time bringing variety to sentence constructions because of this

>>9645728
English seems slightly primitive in comparison.

>>9645669
>English is called the language of ideas for a reason
That reason being...?

As someone fluent in both languages and originally from Mexico, not only do I prefer reading in English, I actively dislike reading in Spanish

>>9645809
it's flexible and you aren't tied down by pointless, archaic grammar rules. its flexibility also allows for easy adoption of new words and words from other languages.

>>9645662
It's lack of conjugations, for one. On spanish, nouns give five different verbs (fifth and sixth noun being the same)

>>9645669
>Don Qujiote is to modern Spanish what Shakespeare is to modern English.

Spic here, im reading las Novelas Ejemplares, and sometimes i struggle to read, but i don't think it's for the same reasons. It's the speech pattern what changed with spanish, as opposed to ye olde english wich changed or dropped more words (not to say spanish didn't).

>>9645945
Just morir mierda.

>>9645970
Don Quixote in English sucks ass.
Source: I have read it in both languages.

>>9645957
>easy adoption of new words
it's the same in any language

>>9645979
Why would you asume i'd read it on english. As if im not going blind already

>>9645980
No, it's not.

>>9645970
>On spanish, nouns give five different verbs (fifth and sixth noun being the same)
Straight up, I didn't understand a thing of what you've just said.

>>9645994
Why? In my native tongue, Russian, we adpot new words very frequently, and our language is fusional.

>>9645648
>is spanish better than english to read books in?
If you want beautiful language, yes; if you want more info per syllabe, english is the best.
>is it really that muh more flexible?
There aren't languages more limited than others, only thinkers

As for Don Quijote, i don't know how you plan to learn spanish, and i've never had to...., but it's so damn good it justifies learning spanish only for it.

Spanish is the easiest language in the world to learn. IT will take you a year to be a fluent reader if you study every day. and it is a nice bridge to learning French. You may as well

>>9646080
>if you want more info per syllabe
no need being so autistic

As a Spaniard I have to say that English is a beautiful language when used correctly. If we go by words alone, I believe Spanish is more pleasant to read; our vocabulary is vast and caresses the tongue with surprising care.
But as grammatical constructions go, English manages to keep me more engaged in my reading. I've read books in both languages and this has come true every time.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that one is better than the other, but I definitely enjoy them for different reasons.

>>9645997
Sorry, im high. I forgot what a noun was.
The grammatical persons i think they're called (i, you, he/she, etc) on spanish these give more conjugations than english.

>>9646103
It's called cuck syndrome.

>>9645648
>>9645669
>>9645728

I am a native Spanish Speaker and I agree with these posts.
Spanish is only more flexible if you mean the word order and syntax and stuff like the enclitic pronouns.
English, being an analytic language, has a very strict word order.


English is more flexible in that it is a language in which creating words with suffixes, compound words, puns, neologisms, is very easy.
Spanish, in comparison, demands a complete mastery of the dictionary, but that is also true for the other Romance languages like French or Italian.
English is better for thinking intituively, knowing how to name the concepts that come to your mind.

English is also rather monosyllabic, therefore English texts tend to be shorter than their Spanish equivalent.

>>9646799
Then we should all learn Chinese. But, to be honest, the criteria by which you characterize English as a better language are quite stupid.

>>9646829

English isnt tonal at least.

>>9646829
He never once said that English was better. Brilliant reading comprehension you got there.

At least Spanish has no disadvantages against English. Saying English is more flexible is retarded.

fuck, every native Spanish speaker in here sucks dicks in English

>>9645707
This
>>9645945
Just your average self-hating chicano

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>>9645707
I agree. native tongue is portuguese, can read not-too-complex spanish, can read a bit of french and italian with some hassle and I too prefer any of those over english. I have read original works in english such as ulysses and paradise lost and they are completely genius and beautiful, I give you that, but on the other hand, I have read the divine comedy my first time in english and now I am re-reading it in portuguese and it is just MUCH more beautiful, and I believe what allows this is the similarieties these languages share, my edition has portuguese and the italian text side by side, and I very often see the same words being used in the italian and portuguese texts, so I think its much more "easy" to translate rhymes and specific words and phrases, whereas it is not possible to do in english, or at least not without some changes in the text.

translation between french, italian, portuguese and spanish will always be better than the translation from any of these to english or german or russian

>>9647900
Spanish speaker here and reading on english is easier to me, Spanish is very archaic and rigid.

>>9647962
It's really not.

>>9647970
is really like i said

>>9648019
nice argument fagtron you sure convinced me with those hot opinions

>>9648025
Spanish have too many changes on nouns, is very old and archaic and makes it less flexible where on English you can just take a word and turn in verb or noun, very flexible.

>>9648049
You can do the exact same thing in Spanish. Just because you don't know your mother tongue doesn't mean it is bad. You can't even begin to write proper English, you blithering idiot.

>old and archaic

Whatever that means.

>>9648073
I'm not nessary saying Spanish is worse, demands knowing vocabulary from you where on english you can literally make up new words.

>>9645648
Native spanish speaker here

"Father, forgive them; for they not know what they do" sounds absolutely beautiful and there isn't a single passage in Luke in spanish that sounds better than this. But this only happens with certain phrases. I still think that texts in english (original and translated) sound childish and mediocre, in general, as some other anon said. On the other hand, texts in spanish tend to sound beautiful from the beginning until the end.

In english you can literally make up new words intuitively and the reader will understand them. In spanish this is not the case

>>9648089
Again, it's the same in English. You need to know the language to create new words. And in Spanish you can make new words too, even if you have not mastered it, though it is easier if you have.

Espatmos, catastrofísica, iridescendencia, tiflocracia, probvocausar, deleuznable, bestuario, astronémico, divulgarización. All neologisms and portmaneurs I have created.

But of course, what could someone who doesn't know English know about Spanish?

>>9648129
>In english you can literally make up new words intuitively and the reader will understand them. In spanish this is not the case
For example?

>>9646829
As a Chinese and English bilingual I always find others European languages bizarre af, like grammatical gender, declensions and conjugations

>>9648129
>"Father, forgive them; for they not know what they do"
It sounds more intricate and beautiful in Russian.

>>9648160
Chinese is just primitive, and I have no idea how you you even manage to understand each other.

>primitive
>archaic

What does that even mean? Those are just buzzwords.

>>9648170
What do you mean by primitive? Is it inferior to other languages?

>>9648170
arranging vocabularies in certain positions

>>9646799
So English writer don't need to master the dictionary to write? Neat, no wonder they can write twilight and fifty shades

>>9648267
It doesn't even have tenses. Everything should be guessed from context.

>>9648411
How is that a quality of primitiveness?

>>9648420
Come on, don't play dumb. Chinese grammar is almost always word order.

>>9648411
it transcends your primitive tenses david

>>9648425
You don't speak Chinese, do you?

>>9648425
>Chinese grammar is almost always word order.

t. someone who doesn't know a word of Chinese

>>9648438
Excuse me, I can spell out the pinyin of "good morning" and "how are you"

>>9648425
You didn't answer the question, smart boy.

>>9648438
I've done my research and to know how primitive Chinese is there's no need to speak the laguage.

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>>9648454
>I don't know what I'm talking about but I still feel compelled to say it

>>9648468
I've gone on Wikipedia for almost an hour researching on Chinese and its """grammar""". My conclusion stands firm. You?

>>9648468
Then I challenge you to prove me wrong, unless you are a pussy.

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>>9648476
>I've gone on Wikipedia for almost an hour researching on Chinese and its """grammar"""

weak american-tier b8, m8

>>9648479
The burden of proof rests on you. Using arbitrary adjectives like "primitive" and "archaic" is not an argument, it's an opinion.

>>9648479
because 我操你妈 and 我操你妈了 involve "word order", you fucking idiot

>>9648512
Your language is inferior to almost any other language. It's a proven fact by linguists.

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>>9648525

>>9648525
>proven fact by linguists
[citation needed]

Still wating for the proof of Chinese not being primitive.

Is there any audio book for don quijote not read by someone constantly lisping?

>>9648525
>>9648541
Nice evasion of your spurious claim and smooth transition to a non-argument
>>9648507

>>9648546
Stop watching Stef Bolyneoux, he's a jerk.

>>9648543
Castillian Spanish sounds the best. So stop being a loser and get a life.

>>9648541
kek you sound like a textbook teenager in an ebin internet fight

pathetic

>>9648573
Japan should have annexed China.

i think someone once asked borges which language he preferred and i don't remember which he chose, but he did say that english has things that spanish doesn't, like verbs like "look up to".
i would guess there are other things that you can say in spanish but not in english, but i can't think of anything right now

>>9645648
that's not the actual title of the book

>tfw everyone misread my post and think I said spanish is more flexible

>>9648617
>but he did say that english has things that spanish doesn't, like verbs like "look up to"
What did you expect? Those are different languages. You're putting it as though they are translations of each other. Each language conveys things differently.

>>9645669
>To use an analogy: Don Qujiote is to modern Spanish what Shakespeare is to modern English.

Absolutely incorrect and a classic misunderstanding by beginner learners. Cervantes is so similar to contemporary Spanish it's unbelievable. Completely readable aside from very specific vocabulary (e.g. his armor, saddle related things, archaic words referencing other things). Shakespeare is much more taxing as far as patience and thought go into comprehending what the character is saying and how it relates to the play.

The way they ARE very similar is that they are both modernizers of their respective languages, aggiornamentori if you will. This is also to say that English usage has changed very much since the 17th century, and Spanish has not so vastly changed.

>>9648686
You are exaggerating, man. Cervantes is not that easy and Shakespeare is not that difficult. Conversely, Cervantes is not impossible to read for a modern reader nor Shakespeare as easy. One just needs to get used to their idiom and they become readable with the help of the occasional note.

>>9648705
He isn't though. Don Quixote reads as easily in Spanish as Robinson Crusoe in English.

Spanish is a master tongue. English sucks ass.

spanish language is one of the smallest language markets despite being the largest first-language in the world. that say something about reading in spanish.

>>9646087
>Spanish is the easiest language in the world to learn.

Liar

>>9646013
It's not simply speaking about adaption from other languages, it's adaption from thought for a new reference.
For example to say that's very 'becoming' of you, in English you can go ahead and invent unbecoming and it's not awkward

>>9646103
Your vocabulary is shit

>>9647474
>small dick minority posting

>>9649711
I don't follow.

I wish Spanish replaced English as a lingua franca in the west.

>>9649711
The same thing happens in a lot of languages, including Spanish. You talk as if prefixes and suffixes were some crazy voodoo shit that only English has.

>>9648649
there is no way of translating "to look up to" to spanish though, you can only explain the meaning. some languages just can't convey some things while others can, deal with it

>>9645957
>it's flexible and you aren't tied down by pointless, archaic grammar rules.
Yeah, instead of giving things rules it just makes them impossible.
Relative clauses can hardly be mixed with possessive clauses, English is hilariously limiting.

>>9650666
Don't play dumb. Look up to can be translated as Admirar. Everything is translatable.

>>9649051
Nah that says something about spanish aptitudes desu.

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>>9648623
thAtzz nOT DEE tiTle oV DeE bOoK

>>9650869
admirar has much stronger connotations that look up to in my opinion, although i'm no native english speaker. and i think if i look up to you, it also means i actually want to be or act like you, which the word admirar doesn't imply at all

>>9651003
You stupid spic, go buy some logic. Different languages are different languages, and what you're doing is beyond retarded.

>>9650869
I don't speak Spanish, but in Russian we would say watch someone with admiration.

>>9648617
his favorite lenguage was german. He hated french btw. Check out his "Five nights" conferences in case you want the source. They happen to be amazing stories too.

>>9651626
Seven nights*

>>9648568
ifth youth sayth soth

>>9651844
Your message is risible, you must as well be a virgin.

Literally none of the spics here has any argument against Spanish.

>>9648617
>verbs like "look up to".
Admirar

>>9652571
It still doesn't mean the same and on Spanish is no equivelant of word toe, just finger of foot. And there's more words that make English richer and special. You can traslate everything to English but not the other way around.

>>9645648
Spanish writing tends to be a lot more colorful IMO, and I'm not sure if that's purely cultural (because it comes through even in translations), or if it's something inherent in Romance languages generally (Italian feels similar, haven't read much in the way of French works).

I think it's pretty tryhard to learn a language for reading exclusively unless you're actually going to major in Spanish. If you're going to learn Spanish, do it so you can go to Latin America and enjoy the tropics and fried food.

has anyone given an answer to this?
>How long do you think it would take an Anglophone to be able to read Don Quijote in Spanish?

>>9652598
If you're past the critical age, never.

>>9645707
>English feels childlike and mediocre.
How?

>>9652583
>And there's more words that make English richer and special. You can traslate everything to English but not the other way around.

The same thing happens in Spanish. Try not to speak about something when you lack real knowledge about it.

>>9652584
>I think it's pretty tryhard to learn a language for reading exclusively

That's a stupid prejudice to have. People have different goals and priorities.

>>9652670
w-what's that?

>>9652719
7 tops

This thread makes me want to learn Spanish just to annoy Spanish speakers.

>>9652723
im 20 but had delayed development. i'll be okay, right?

>>9652732
How would you annoy them?

>>9652743
Yes, for a retard like you there's still hope to learn to read Cervates.

Currently engrossed in the second half of Don Quixote, might even finish it tomorrow.

>That passage where the scholar dies in the cave
Manly tears were shed, why is Part 2 so much better than part one? I think I only really enjoyed The Black Mountains in part one but it didn't really find it's stride until the last couple chapters.

>>9652754
Thanks for spoiling it for me, you prick

>>9652760

Go back to /tv/

>>9652745
by speaking with a spaniard accent

>>9652486
>Literally none of the spics here has any argument against Spanish.
Learn English before you try to insult someone.

>>9653004
What do you mean?

>>9652996
It's not really annoying. It's more annoying to hear someone speak with an American or Chilean accent.

>>9653061
>Chilean accent
You don't say
>>9653004
>Learn English before you try to insult someone.
I'm still waiting for an explanation, sir.

>>9653061

Chileant Accent =/= Chilean vernacular

Vicente Huidobro, Gabriela Mistral, Pablo Neruda & Pablo de Rokha are crying in their graves

>>9653094
>Vicente Huidobro, Gabriela Mistral, Pablo Neruda & Pablo de Rokha are crying in their graves
Who cares, they are bad writers anyway.

>>9653126

nice bant

>>9653094
>Chileant Accent =/= Chilean vernacular

You are right, my bad.

>>9651739
you're goddamn right.

>>9645648
>All these faggot spics bashing english
English is the ultimate language, lots of latin/greek, lots of old french, with a healthy germanic base.

These faggots that know Romance languages and then say English feels childish is because they don't know German. German is the language of fucking orcs it is disgusting and feels filthy when you know Latin.

Latin is the pinnacle of human expression. The romance languages are aesthetic successors to Latin. English is a shit show, it has everything. You can produce astounding elegance with the great vocabulary provided by Latin and French loan words while also achieving simplicity with the short germanic base.

Latin>English>Spanish>French>Italian>German
When it comes to expressing ideas elegantly this is the order. (Modern Greek is pretty shit, I'd put it at the bottom but it doesn't seem relevant)

Slavs are the niggers of Europeans I will never learn a slavshit language.

>>9653780
>Slavs are the niggers of Europeans I will never learn a slavshit language.
If you'd actually spoke Russian, you wouldn't have made that stupid, ignorant statement.

>>9649711
I'm a native English speaker, and even I know this isn't exclusive to only our language.

what's the best way to learn russian?

>>9654145
by taking your time

>>9645669

>o use an analogy: Don Qujiote is to modern Spanish what Shakespeare is to modern English. It can be difficult to read even for native speakers.

This is just wrong.

>>9654221
No.

>>9653809
Fuck off Ivan
Name one reason to learn Russian other than 1800s Russian lit.

Every other slavshit language is spoken on a 10x10 piece of land in the eastern block and spells everyday words with fucking 10 letters 9 of them consonants using 10 declensions and 10 cases. Fuck that jazz.

>>9654954
What's the point in learning English if you aren't gonna move anywhere else from your country?

>>9655216
Post on an ubekibekistani goat breeding forum

>>9655376
racist!

English apologists BTFO!

What's a good Spanish book for beginners?

>>9645656
flexible? i find spanish more rich in words and posibilities.

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>>9645648
try to read your books in their original language, pic related would lose a fucking lot in translation.

>>9653780
>English>Spanish
kek

>>9656933
>pic related would lose a fucking lot in translation
Not really, it can be translated into English precisely because of its abnormal flexibility. Spanish isn't particularly a good language.

>>9653780
>English>French

>>9656949
What does that even mean?

Why do people here enjoy talking out of their asses?

>>9656979
I'm a Mexican so I know what I'm talking about, Spanish is an ugy and limiting language.

>>9656984
t. pendejo que no conoce su idioma materno

>>9656984
It's a shame to share board and nationality with someone so blindly ignorant and imbecile.

There's a very rich and beautiful literary tradition in México, let alone every spanish-speaking country to even ignore, implying that spanish is ugly and limiting is an oxymoron statement.
Also this >>9657037

>>9657037
muere puta

So i nobody going to recommend any books?

English is perfectly flexible. Only ESL (including ESL with 'perfect' English) find it inflexible in some way. No, word order is not strict, it can be swapped around a good bit before becoming vague, and it has the merit of being re-arrangable without having to deal with declensions.

English as a language doesn't make much sense without being born and naturalized to it. It's ridiculous what one can do within it, which cannot be done in any other language. I am completely convinced that every ounce of English-hating comes from ESL and pissy red linguists.

All faults in translations into English are the fault of the translator, not the language itself. One could piss blood into a baby doll and construct a somewhat comprehensible noun for the object, verb for the action, and whatever else they please from there.

>>9657783
What would you like to read? poetry, non-fiction, novels... and if so, any particular subject or type of narrative?

>>9658143
Novels please. I would also prefer if they are short.

>>9646087
spanish is much more difficult than English to learn.
It might have an extremely simple phonology but its grammar and syntax is much more complex and that is what matters more.

For one English word, there are five Spanish words whose use depends on the context.
Latin languages are just harder to be fluent in and be able to express yourself well.

t. I speak both fluently and I do it for my job

Latin Languages>Every other Language>English

>>9649711
Multilingual fag here. From my understanding most European languages can do this.
An example from Spanish:
"te echo de menos" is a fixed expression that means "I miss you"
I've heard in a song "te echo de más" which was used to show that the singer doesn't miss the woman he is singing about, although in standard speech, no one says "echar a alguien de más". It was just a play on words because más and menos are antonyms of one another

>>9650666
How do you say "querer" in English?
How you answer this will determine how much you even know.

>>9658889
want, like or love depending on context

>>9658946
I meant it as in "te quiero".
It is not "love". We distinguish between both of them and don't casually tell our girlfriends "te amo".

Love would not be the translation since "querer" is more nuanced here.

Anglos say they "love" everything.

>>9657832
>English as a language doesn't make much sense without being born and naturalized to it.

Its the same for every other language.

>which cannot be done in any other language

Just like how you complained that only ESL speakers find English limited because they are not born into it and do not master it, I am sure that it is the same for you and all the other foreign languages you are lumping together as inferior.

Who are your favorite Spanish authors /lit/?

>>9658956
HAHAHA ENGLISH TURNED OUT OT BE PRIMITIVE))) ANGLOS DIDN'T SEE THAT ONE COMING :)))))))))) IF You CAN'T TRANSLATE A WORD TO ENGLISH WITHOUT CHANGING THE CANNOTATION ENGLISH SUCKS)))))))))))))))))) Now, what are your petty mock-arguments now, huh?

>>9659786
>>9650666
HAHAHA HISPANICS TURNED OUT OT BE PRIMITIVE))) HISPANICS DIDN'T SEE THAT ONE COMING :)))))))))) IF You CAN'T TRANSLATE A WORD TO SPANISH WITHOUT CHANGING THE CANNOTATION SPANISH SUCKS))))))))))))))))))


I was just repeating what the other anon was doing but in reversal

In spanish you can say mi mama and mama mia whereas in English only my mom.

>>9659736
Cervantes, Unamuno, Baroja, Delibes. I also enjoyed some books by Cela. I need to read more Spanish lit

>>9660039
You can say mother of mine in English though.

>>9660170
That would be mama de yo in Spanish. But anyways, you don't say, for instance, God of mine, or do you? Only my God or oh my God.

I myself, being an anglo scum, am deeply BTFO by the rebuttals provided ITT, and, by extension, ashamed of being a native carrier of this, indeed, very limiting vomit of a language called English.

>>9659736
Garcilaso, Jorge Manrique, Fernando de Rojas.

>TFW no Spanish speaking qt to teach me Spanish by having sex with me.

I speak both since birth and I find them similar as fuck. I challenge all the people in this thread claiming differences to exist to support this by example.

>>9648049
wtf is a change on noun what the fuck do u mean u fucking pseud

>>9661260
>there are no differences between English and Spanish

This thread is full of retards.

Protip: countable and uncountable nouns.

>>9661281
>countable and uncountable nouns.

They exist in Spanish too

Both are worse than Russian in the end.

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What do you think about this hacker?

>>9662300
Haven't read him. Is he worth it?

>>9662400
>Is he worth it?
In English, yes. Otherwise it's too obscure and insipid.

>>9658684
El túnel by Ernesto Sábato is pretty short and easy to read. I would recommend Sobre héroes y tumbas from the same author but I didn't like it at all, maybe you do tho. It's way more angsty.
The classic Cien años de soledad, I'm disgusted by García Márquez fame but this book is fantastically written.
Jorge Luis Borges short stories are also easy to read, maybe just a little bit harder.
After that you can go hardcore and read Alejo Carpentier who has my favorite style, I love reading this guy. It's not hardcore as in Ulysses, mind you, it's more that his prose is really colorful and fluid (baroque might be the term), with long as fuck sentences. Read El siglo de las luces, and Concierto barroco if you want something shorter.
Also Julio Cortázar short stories are excellent in 8 out of 10 cases.. The other 2 are just dull. Maybe read Hopscotch?

>>9662506
>Sobre héroes y tumbas
What didn't you like about it? I thought it was fantastic and the Informe Sobre Ciegos chapter seems unparalelled to me in Latin American literature

Anyone here likes Góngora? What would you recommend of him?

>>9662871
I haven't read him but Soledades is considered his masterpiece I believe