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If you people want to have the slightest idea about what the

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If you people want to have the slightest idea about what the hell is what the XVIII-XIX century europeans, and us after them, called Buddhism, forget about contemporary 100-page introductions or people who talk about it in a vacuum as if it were something that came out of nowhere and is applicable as such, with all its little lists and prescriptions, anywhere anytime.

Buddhism is the product of a wide social phenomenon called Sramana in the Indian context. It is the later development of only one of many movements or ways that came out of a reaction against the Vedic tradition when there were important social changes happening, the so called period of 'second urbanization'. When that tradition started to be incapable of facing the new developments, there was a series of people who, educated within that tradition and facing the new world, saw the contradictions and decided or were forced to leave society to try new ways. Out of this came an innumerable amount of individual or small-scale organized ways of life that, instead of trying to change or criticize that tradition, simply went their own way. Out of this pool, bigger organizations started to appear, among which early Buddhism, that are known retrospectively as heterodox views -Nastika-, because of their not taking the Vedas as an explicit reference, even if of course born in the meddle of Vedic culture, as well as next to the other cultures present in the territory before and simultaneously along with it.

So, it started as a small sect, along with others such as the other well known Jainism. But there were also other ones that didnt become popular sects but merely stayed as philosophical schools, and that are in no way less interesting than buddhism -they actually influenced it-, such as the carvakas, ajivikas and ajnanas, just to mention the ones recorded in the philosophical literature.

But his is nothing Indian or merely 'spiritual', it is something that happens in every society when times are changing: it fails to educate people effectively, so some of them go back to direct experience and then give a new picture adapted to the new times. It happened in Greece in the transition between the classic and the Hellenic world, think of pyrrho or diogenes; it happened in China before the Qin empire was established, think of the so called 'hundred schools of thought' or the eremitic tradition, just to name big examples. Other minor scale ones could be found in anthropological texts.

If you ignore this and take it as it is presented to us today you will miss its true value, which is not some god-send people showing us 'the way things really are', but simply an example that any human being is capable of refreshing its own ways when these are no longer effective and lead him into insoluble impasses. But such a thing is not simply done looking for formulas somewhere else but rather appealing to ones own innate capacity, ones own Life, in order to build something new from it.
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>>9631682
By the time of the Buddha Hinduism wasn't the Vedic religion anymore, it was the religion of the Upanishads.

Fuck off.
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>>9631716
Hinduism is a later development my friend. The upanishads are the philosophic development of the vedas.
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>>9631727
Yoga and renouncers were in the Buddha's days.

It has nothing to do with the Vedic religion of the liturgy of animal sacrifices and priests.
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>>9631733
read again. those renouncers were not renouncers out of boredom or existential crisis. it was a social phenomenon that took place within the context of the vedic culture and what was to become brahmanism.
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>>9631745
It was already brahmanism because the Mukhya Upanishads were orally transmitted as early as the first millennium whereas the historical Buddha is dated in the middle of it.

>Anthony Warder in 2009, summarizes that Samkhya and Mīmāṃsā schools appear to have been established before Sramana traditions in India (~500 BCE)
For the last time, the Indian religious landscape sorrounding the Buddha was already post-Vedic
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>>9631774
well, post vedic does not mean a-vedic. it was a culture that continued by its development. and of course if one considers the oral origins in any tradition they go back to untraceable times compared to their coming into a written form, but im not sure what is your point there.

when i speak of vedic culture i dont mean the orthodox institutions that explicitly reclaim themselves of the vedas, but the whole cultural world that was influenced by it, and of course, as i said, the other cultures present at tha time on the same territory.

and you cant speak of brahmanaism at such an early time. pushed to its limits it could be called proto brahmanism. but anyway, those little issues of definition are an endless debate that is not my point.
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>>9631682
>100-page introductions

>implying people on this board read
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